/biz/ - Business & Finance

No banks means Jews lose their power over us. What else could you possibly need to see its value?

>>5762425

Yeah, you know I thought that, and there is some truth to that - however, we exchange nominally legally accountable overlords for unaccountable overlords - NSA started Bitcoin, the "whales" top 1000 hodlers control literally 40% of the market and there is nothing to prevent them from crashing it at will. I think of Bitcoin like Walter White on Breaking Bad - it is a clever way to escape the drudgery of real life and the oppression, and make some money, but as you get into that world, the Underworld takes over - and nowadays it is not about Libertarian Liberation, but the Nazi gang has taken over production and is using the formula for mass profit, as in Breaking Bad - which is not to say that the gangsters are Nazis but basically organized crime controls the price, and there is no legal recourse when they crash it at will - They printed $1.3 billion of Tether backed by jackshit and it is the parent company of the Bitfinex exchange and when it becomes more widely known Bitcoin crashes to like $2000 or less. All overlords are bad, but I want legally accountable ones who have to nominally follow laws, even if they are rarely punished when they don't. Like 1% of hodlers control 97% of circulation and there is no penalty for insider trading and price manipulation, and you call this "freedom" and the other cryptos are even more concentrated, when they are not overt scams, which 99% of them are.

>>5762426
Imagine being this misinformed about bitcoin.

>>5762427
I've looked up a lot about it, persuade me if I'm wrong, I've spent dozens of hours reading about it, educate me if you can dude

>>5762427
or you could bhtfo and not be a stupid asshole.

>>5762426
You're overthinking it. Bitcoin is digital gold: a store of value that persists because holders insist upon it. The entire network is strengthened by a shared interest in maintaining it. Bitcoin will always be scarce, and with governments around the world printing FIAT like there's no tomorrow, cryptocurrencies will always have a place in the economic system.

>>5762424
Hodl, anon

>>5762429
im in a few alts right now. things are looking pretty comfy over here. I'm not going to shill what Im hodling though since it would detract from this thread. I would say you have every right to be skeptical. BUT I would also as you to look into this technology more and the larger benefits it holds outside of currency.

>>5762424
Gold has no more value Goyim. Fill you cavities with Bitcoins like a good goy.

>>5762424
>The basic problem, though, is Bitcoin has no actual value, it is based on nothing other than the belief in the technology as a kind of electronic Western Union
Every time I see this argument bit coin shoots up even more.

>>5762424
Bitcoin will probably crash
It will stay with the current value, till there wont be much fluctuations left, and then people will just start selling them

>>5762430

So, this is the thing - I buy that argument is there is only ONE cyrpto-currency and it can ONLY be bought with FIAT currencies - but what about Tether, $1.3 billion of "cash" backed by jackshit, that is pumping up the Bitcoin price - if Bitcoin is the ONLY crypto-currency yes that argument holds, but if there is more than one, and it can be bought with other cryptos that can be printed at will, then it is an infinite chain of nothing with no value.

I do agree that the "store of value" in Bitcoin is the social network, like Myspace or Facebook, or Instagram or Snapchat, as much as the technology, but Bitcoin is not as efficient as Ethereum or as versatile; there will be other technical innovations, and computing power advances will make it easier to mine. I know the temptation to have a store of value because Gold and silver have been mercilessly beat down I just don't think Bitcoin is it - that is like saying Myspace or Facebook is like Gold because it is a network people like to share photos on, Bitcoin is the same just with money.

>>5762424
your personal valuation of bitcoin is mostly irrelevant, because the market has already decided, and consequently will leave you behind.

>>5762428
Just apply what you say about bitcoin to gold instead, and you'll see why bitcoin is such a good store of value. Imagine shipping or storing 1 million dollars worth of gold, compared with bitcoin. Bitcoin is literally abstract, it exists only on the blockchain, which is basically a list that people keep updated on their computers. Your bitcoin is always safe because it's on the blockchain, no one can take it away from you without the private key to the bitcoin address. People can take your gold, your cash, diamonds, cars, houses, beanie babies, or whatever, but they can never ever take away your bitcoin unless they have the private key.

>>5762433

exactly - Russia and China are buying gold the price is low now, Bitcoin is the last refuge to save the petrodollars - take spare change from others around the world, do some blackops and try to postpoone the day of a currency actually backed by something - should I be a good goy and do this?

>>5762430
>Bitcoin is digital gold

HAHAHAAHA. yeah like the "wooden iron", or the "boiling snow".

never change libtards.

>>5762424
>no actual value
All the input computing power that calculated and stored all the prime numbers, databases, and cryptographic sequences, but that value will go to nothing if there is a development in quantum computing that can render all that computing power to a triviality and simultaneously break the effectiveness of their encryption schema.

>governments can track ISPs
Bitcoin's blockchain doesn't store any IP information that can be easily referenced through an ISP.

>transaction fees have increased
That just makes it more convenient to mine and participate in the transaction validation process necessary to the protocol.

>(there are 1370 imitators)
The US dollar has more imitators besides the dozens of countries, even your local arcade or Dave and Busters prints their own coins and bills.

>>5762438

I'm not disputing that is true, I'm just saying that its value is what people perceive it to be - at the same time, if your computer is hacked or your lose the key, your life savings is gone, and this is not true of having gold bars or an FDIC insured account.

If it is on the Blockchain but crashed to $.001 cents because of infinity crypto- printing I don't care that it is secure

Switched 60% of my btc to altcoins at around $14k. Probably should do much more.

Bitcoin is useless now.

>>5762435
Great heard this at $30, $250, $1k, $3k, ....

>>5762438
>but they can never ever take away your bitcoin unless they have the private key.
That seems like a convoluted way of saying stealing all your bitcoin is as easy as figuring out a few characters.

Are you 'persuaded' in the value of the pieces of paper you allow the Federal Reserve to print whenever they feel like it?

Choose your poison.

>>5762436
The more cryptocurrencies, the better. Improvements come quicker because it's so easy to swap cryptocurrencies on a whim. If you don't like certain aspects of bitcoin like the high fees or the slow transaction time, you can just swap for another coin that does it better. This, in turn, puts pressure on bitcoin to evolve. It's open source, alot of people contribute to the core code. There are solutions being worked on right now to fix a few of the issues facing bitcoin.

This ability to pivot and evolve is another thing that guarantees bitcoin's long-term existence. The very fact that other cryptocurrencies exist actually guarantees that bitcoin will be constantly updating itself to compete with them, and the fact that bitcoin is open-source means that changes can happen quickly. Sure it's got its risks, but the potential upside is astronomical to the point where you'd be an idiot not to hold some bitcoin as a long-term strategy.

>>5762443

This is the thing - this process will continue as the "whales" change their cryptos to diversify in that world and also to pull out actual cash.

But here is a question for you - how can something have value if there is no intrinsic value other than a group of people liking it, no profits or even potential for profits? How can a market go from $17 billion to $560 billion in one year without any actual cash profits in the real world? It literally is worse than the tulip bubble if you consider all cryptos together, with 95-99% of them are fraud schemes, as everyone admits.

Besides, if there is a quantum computing power advance in the next 5-10 years everything in that world goes to shit, no security, etc. This is like putting all of your money on "dial-up" technology in 1997 because millions of people can connect online and there will never be anything better, ever guaranteed.

>>5762442
How the fuck would bitcoin's price be affected by other crypto "printings?" If zimbabwe and venezuela print trillion dollar bills of their currencies it has literally no affect on the price of milk in America.

>>5762447

So, I agree that technical improvements will improve the usability of Bitcoin, but it doesn't change the argument that its source of value is a social network of like minded users, that could be rendered obsolete with a massive increase in computing power that could happen at an arbitrary time.

I mean it is a cool experiment and all, but ultimately force and necessity back up currencies and Bitcoin has neither of those.

>>5762438

oh cool so I can basically take everything you have using a key logger

faggot kys

>>5762449

Well, what happened this fall is that whenever there is a price decline, Tether a crypto-currency printed out of thin air was used to prop up the price, consider what Charlie Lee says, who cares what I think - Bitcoin is a faith based system, and that faith must e maintained by ever increasing price=value, even if shortcuts are taken

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-12-05/mystery-shrouds-tether-and-its-links-to-biggest-bitcoin-exchange

>>5762449
>implying the yuan value doesn't affect the dollar value and economists don't get seriously concerned over China purposely devaluing their currency

>>5762424
https://bitflur.com

It's great to cash the fuck out though

>>5762438
>which is basically a list that people keep updated on their computers

yeah gazzilion exchanges, miner pools, crypto scams ... etc. all of them corporate entities full of shit and greed who extort outrageous fees and require ton of papers are "just people".

In the same time :

>bbbut muh ebil banks.... and goberment

never changer libertards

>>5762445
>That seems like a convoluted way of saying stealing all your bitcoin is as easy as figuring out a few characters.
Try to figure out a 64 character password. Here's an example of a bitcoin private key. Do you know how long it would take to guess this?
E9873D79C6D87DC0FB6A5778633389F4453213303DA61F20BD67FC233AA33262

It would take the greatest supercomputer approximately 0.65 billion billion years. This is assuming that someone constructed a dyson sphere around the sun to capture all its energy and devote it solely to counting numbers, and then when the sun dies, to move the dyson sphere to a new star.

>>5762449
Charlie Lee, creator of Litecoin, the world’s seventh-largest cryptocurrency, wrote in a Nov. 30 Twitter post, “There’s a fear going on that the recent price rise was helped by printing of USDT (Tether) that is not backed by USD in a bank account.”

>>5762424
Anyone serious about bitcoins and using actual hard earned money to get involved needs to know this game is now rigged and not going to operate quite differently.
((JP. Morgan)) Openly opposes bitcoin <------
GoldMan Sachs thinks its great and HIRED bitcoin traders over the last 2 years, google it, there are job postings.
cboe first launched /xbt which is a futures exchange for bitcoins.
cme started /btc
cboe is the Chicago Board Options Exchange founded in 1973 and the cme is the Chicago Mercantile Exchange
the moment this shit started trading, prices directly were driven by price action on these products.
/redditspace/
go to thinkorswim dot com, download the platform by opening a free account and see for yourself.
i can trade bitcoins for 30 percent down. good luck buying tons of 13 thousand dollar coins.
if bitcoin crashes
buy 7500 with reverse mortgages. this is the second time i'm bringing up 7500.
/redditspace/
happy new years ~ Fu7ur3sbr(-)

>>5762448
I know, it's rampant speculation. I also know I bought a bitcoin many years ago just to do online biz when paypal isn't accepted or favorable, and it turned to $11,5k I can cash out any time I want by turning it into gold or silver (my favorite hobby and store of value) on apmex. But I'm just going to let it do what it want, a fun gamble. Keep in mind everything you say has been said at every step along the way.

Also my mother asked me about this bitcoin stuff she's been hearing about, so I told her imho it's a bubble and to stay away - hope you are all advising normie family members the same way.

pic related, cap of my shitcoins

>>5762450
Even a massive increase in computing power can be countered by building this into the core code. For instance the encryption standard called Bcrypt uses time to prevent brute force attacks. No matter how strong a computer is, there's still a fixed time hurdle that can't be overcome with brute force. This is just one solution, people have already considered the quantum computing issue facing bitcoin.

>>5762456

The fact that is cool technology (for now at least) doesn't change the fact that when there are no regulations and market protections, there are pump and dump schemes, fraud, whales manipulating prices, speculative bubbles and all. And that is Bitcoin now, we are not talking like a few years ago.

All you guys don't get how crypto works.

The basic idea is as follows:

1. Own a large mining farm.

2. Start mining some obscure crypto.

3. Once people see its value going up, a bunch more start buying into it.

4. Self sustaining snowball, you ease off your mining operation while people are rushing in, if it starts to drop off you increase it to shore up the value(this gets the skeptics).

5. Once coin reaches high enough value, you sell(but again, not enough to cause a price drop).

6. After the snowballs steam runs out, the price crashes and the system repeats

Crypto is literally the realization of pump and dump stock.

>>5762424
Venezuelan authorities are actually too stupid to do blockchain analysis.

>>5762456
see
>>5762451
You aren't limited to guess work look at all the ways hackers have compromised people's keys besides keyloggers and compromising computers directly, they have gotten ISPs to transfer device credentials through social manipulations alone.

>This is assuming that someone
Made some great development in quantum computing.

>>5762454
bitflur is great but it only lets you cash out 1k at a time

>>5762424
The problem with bitcoin is that it literally has zero value. It isn't backed by anything. To make matters worse, you can't convert U.S. dollars into bitcoin, which means it is being affected by the Jewry at the Federal Reserve.

For bitcoin to actually work, it must be backed by silver/gold. However, to convert the silver/gold into a digital code, you must give someone (or something) like a bank the silver/gold to store. This means a bank must get involved by using the encryption technology, but it can only do that if other banks use the same encryption technology. If the banks are centralized, this kind of defeats the whole purpose behind bitcoin.

What does all this means? Bitcoin is threatening the U.S. Federal reserve by competing with it by not having anything tangible assets backing it. Encrypted currency alone doesn't solve the problem with the U.S. Federal Reserve, which is that U.S. banking has been centralized.

U.S. banking must be decentralized to destroy the Jewry. Bitcoin alone won't work.

>>5762466
Correction: you can convert U.S. dollars into bitcoin

>>5762465
>only 1k at a time
fuckoff thats a lot of money for some of us

>>5762459
Yes, I mean that is cool, and that is how it should be treated a fun gamble that happened to work out, and lets see what happens in terms of the future. And I agree normies are going to get fucked if/when they go in, this is like slot machines and unless you are in an intelligence agency or own a coin yourself or are a very skilled Elliott Wave Theorist, probably you won't be able to time the ups and downs.

It is a fun ride but lots of retail speculators will be hurt if they get in now or got in mid-year. That is even if it doubles next year (which it might).

But think about it rationally, the crypto-market is $600 billion, based on "technology" with no profit whatsoever, bigger than every company in the world save for Apple and Alphabet. How long will this last before it crashes? I'd take the gold now, just my opinion. If it doubles next year it would be the 17th largest stock exchange in the world with no actual profit or regulation lol

>>5762461
The fact that is cool technology (for now at least) doesn't change the fact that when there are no regulations and market protections, there are pump and dump schemes, fraud, whales manipulating prices, speculative bubbles and all. And that is Bitcoin now, we are not talking like a few years ago.

The most fraud-filled pump and dump scheme with whales manipulating prices and speculative bubbles is the stock market, because it's injected with infinite liquidity by the Federal Reserve. It's completely distorted and corrupt beyond anything bitcoin could ever attempt. At least bitcoin is decentralized. If you don't like chaos, then you're not a true free market capitalist, because out of chaos comes a natural spontaneous order. If you aren't a true capitalist then bitcoin probably isn't for you, you should invest in something that is more highly-regulated and propped up by the state, like shares of Coca Cola or something.

>>5762462
is it? maybe you should read my post and understand the absolute money that is now involved and available on this shit. china has fucking warehouses with mining rigs.. massive builds powered by us sold coal. the us has.. derivatives exchanges on it now. what you typed became irrelevant the end of december. your now gambling on pink sheet style .0001 stocks for lack of a better word. best of luck with that.

>>5762462

exactly - that is why there are so many now - electronic "legal"pump and dump based on taking money from suckers. It is a dirty game, but profitable until people crack down on it

>>5762456
That is actually another weakness, since its also incredibly easy to lose your key and lose all your bitcoin because of how hard it is to remember a private key. Do you ever wonder how much of the total bitcoin is lost forever due to broken devices and forgotten keys?

>>5762466
>For bitcoin to actually work, it must be backed by silver/gold
No? Not at all. It doesn't have to be backed by anything except its own network. Gold isn't backed by anything either, yet it has value. Bitcoin is digital gold.

>>5762473
It's definitely not for idiots, that's for sure. Personally I encrypt all my private keys, and then store them in multiple places, both in the cloud and on physical devices. If you encrypt the keys yourself before uploading them to the cloud, there's nothing to worry about. Your own password is inside your head, and that password is needed to decrypt the private keys.

>>5762466

Yeah, it is a big clusterfuck. Money printing to infinity doesn't work, nor does an electronic currency backed by nothing. We will see what comes up next. Probably the gold backed yuan in another 5-10 years, but I doubt that could happen peacefully.

We need a store of value. The US cannot and will not provide it. We are searching now, and Bitcoin is at least a recognition that the current system sucks, so it is a step in the right direction in that sense.

>>5762464
Yes but people stealing private keys isn't an intrinsic weakness of bitcoin itself. That's a separate issue. People need to take care with their personal information.

>>5762474
>Gold isn't backed by anything either
Physical utility.

>>5762469

I'm not disputing that. Dark money props up the markets, and there actually should have been no stock market gains since 2009, and of course trillion dollar deficits are unsustainable. But I have student loans and those stay with me for life, so I use cash as a store of value for now - it is legal and I save on interest by paying my loans with cash. Crypto speculation would make it easier but I could lose all of my hard earned fiat and don't want to risk it, when the market determines price and it could go up or down based on FUD.

>>5762478
Bitcoin has utility as well. Decentralized and abstract storage of wealth. Easily transferable. Unable to be blocked or molested by banks or governments. Gold might have utility as components in electronics, but that's not why people hold gold, and have for thousands of years. Gold is a store of value.

>>5762477
>People need to take care with their personal information.
Did you miss the part where hackers have bypassed people directly in many cases and gone straight for ISPs?
Relying on encryption keys is its intrinsic weakness because its the entire security mechanism.

>>5762479
>Crypto speculation would make it easier but I could lose all of my hard earned fiat and don't want to risk it, when the market determines price and it could go up or down based on FUD.
Then stay on the sidelines. Crypto is not for pansies anon. If an investment was a sure thing, it would offer almost no returns, like U.S. Treasury bonds (currently 2.04% return after 10 years.) Increased risk usually correlates with increased potential reward.

>>5762468
That's EXACTLY it anon, it takes a ton of money to invest in and profit from. I really want to invest in Ethereum, but I feel like the only way to make any sort of profit would be to put in +$500 into it, but I could only do $100 AT MOST right now :(

>>5762481
ISP's can't access your offline computer. I encrypt my private keys offline, it's called pre-internet encryption.

>>5762480

Store of value in the computing world is like a language to end all languages. There is always a way around it and always innovation. If people want your money they will get it if they are determined enough, having said that, it is too much of a bother for most people in most situations to try to hack any individual account.

>>5762480
>abstract
>physical
You are using circular reasoning saying that the abstract storage of wealth is backed by the utility of having an abstract storage of wealth.

>>5762486
I know it's a difficult concept to grasp, but just try. The faith in bitcoin is partly due to the fact that bitcoin is abstract and secure.

Is it too late to get into Bitcoins now?

>>5762482

Yes, this is true and in the sense of wanting to no what its actual value is and not price speculate, I am a "pansy" but the point of this thread was to present me with arguments that it has value apart from price - this is what sustains the investor through difficult times and price drops, as there have been in the past with Bitcoin, and to me, value depends on profits - market earned, not noobies looking to get into it, like Myspace or Facebook accounts. Basically, whatever the utility, social networks are governed by Metcalfe's Law for valuation, which says that their price is a function of the square root of the number of users, which is not related to its utility directly. Basically if people lose faith in Bitcoin, regardless of its utility that is what determines its "worth" or "price" and that is independent of its value. The fact that China can start its own Facebook close indicates not that Facebook has value but that the "value" is in the fact that there is no other viable competitor for its function, but with Bitcoin, there are 1300 other competitors, with like maybe 5-10 serious ones that can erode its market share, hence faith, hence "worth"

>>5762488
No.
But it's too late to make gorrillians without doing anything.
Best you can hope for is 6x by the end of 2018

>>5762488

Dude, I am sorry that you are even asking that question, the theoretical max price is $20 K, that was almost reached this year. A good time was early 2015, but nowadays price is just speculation only, so basically YES

>>5762484
You can't utilize bitcoin offline at some point you will have to establish a connection to make a transaction.

>>5762487
No, your logic is just flawed, its not the abstract storage that is backing it up, its all the physical calculation and hard computing power that went into finding all the prime number pairs and encryption sequences.

why did Trump take down Rosie?

>>5762488
If you believe bitcoin is going to 10x in price again then it isn't too late. But look at the price. And transaction fees are in the dozens of dollars. If you have some money to gamble, read up on alt coins and put them in cheap/new ones you think will be popular. An alt coin going from next to nothing to a penny is much more likely and much more profitable than $100k bitcoin.

>>5762490

6x by 2018, you are smoking crack, that would be approaching the valuation of Saudi Aramco for a bunch of digits with 1300 competitors, that will not happen for sure. Yes, technology is cool, but without any profits, its viability is a mirage.

>>5762489
I wouldn't worry about "market share" in terms of crypto. If bitcoin loses market share fair and square, that's fine. It's actually a good thing because it means there is something better. The consumer benefits.

>>5762494

Again good advice, but the main thing is it is a gamble, and 95-99% is shit. If you want to price speculate, Ripple or Ethereum of Cardano would be better, these won't go to nothing and will probably increase next year, amirite?

>>5762491
>the theoretical max price is $20 K
No, there is no theoretical limit stopping it from making one satoshi = one penny.

>>5762496

yes, the general consumer benefits, but there will be a price decline, and that is what I care about if I want to make money primarily

>>5762498
I don't dispute that and the theoretical equilibrium price could well be $0. But the calculation is that the max value of the social network for Bitcoin is $20 K per coin, regardless of where we are in the mining stage for all of them. And that has basically been reached, so now we are on the downward end of valuing a tulip.

>>5762483
Ethereum will require at least 1000 ETH to stake and make interest and validate transactions. That's like $1 million dollars at current prices and there are going to be "staking pools" where the plebs with less can earn interest. WTF does sound like to you? It sounds to me like the fucking banks have designed this thing to work exactly the same as the status quo. There are proof-of-stake coins out there that don't require a minimum number of coins, or at least not so high. No good reason to artificially set a floor IMO.

>>5762496
Listen, it is a fascinating topic, it is good to get free from banksters and fun to make money. This is all good, I just am not persuaded in Bitcoin as a store of value rather than Bitcoin as a cohesive, ever improving, social network to transfer money as the fiat world implodes.

>>5762500
>But the calculation is that the max value of the social network for Bitcoin is $20 K per coin
What calculation? Everyone person who participates in bitcoin has their own value theory and calculation.

>>5762501
Ripple is even more bank-controlled. Crypto is going quite quickly to the hidden hand.

>>5762492
>You can't utilize bitcoin offline at some point you will have to establish a connection to make a transaction.
You were saying that ISP's were being used to steal people's private keys. Well if your private key is encrypted offline, they'd only be stealing an encrypted and useless key. Then when you want to go online you can simply use a proxy or VPN or any other method of protecting yourself from ISP snooping. This is basic stuff anon.
>No, your logic is just flawed, its not the abstract storage that is backing it up, its all the physical calculation and hard computing power that went into finding all the prime number pairs and encryption sequences.
The computing power aspect is only part of what backs up bitcoin. The total pooled computing power of the bitcoin network adds security, but there are alot of reasons why people have faith in bitcoin and hold it. The size of the network, like you said, is one, on top of other reasons like I listed before.

>>5762424
>start mining and cashing out each week since it was 3k
>invest more hardware
hardwares paid istself already whatever i make this year is literally free money

>>5762506

Yes, I mean, I can understand mining as a business, that is really the way to get into it - selling shovels in a gold rush is the way to make money, or like Trump, building hotels where people go to gamble, maybe I should get into this instead?

>>5762505
>The computing power aspect is only part of what backs up bitcoin.
No, it is the only physical utility that backs it up since the protocol is fairly simple, the only other reason you listed was its abstract function not what backs up the function with physical value and utility in the real world.

>>5762459
>bitcoinplus

>>5762508
>No, it is the only physical utility that backs it up since the protocol is fairly simple, the only other reason you listed was its abstract function not what backs up the function with physical value and utility in the real world.

A thing doesn't need utility to have value. Does a Picasso painting have utility? What about the statue of David? What is its utility? The recently sold Salvator Mundi by Da Vinci fetched a price of $400 million. Surely it must have real world physical utility right?

>>5762424
>but there is nothing to prevent another coin from being printed out of thin air and used to let the price surge.
there is though. ever wonder why some forks are worth more than others?
more regulation will stop these scammers ripping people off.

>>5762424
>But I'm still not persuaded that there is any value in a bunch of digits backed by other than belief in a social network that has no unique, limited supply, essential or necessary function.

That's why I only invest in centralized companies that utilize the blockchain for their product. Blockchain isn't only for currency.

>>5762425
Which banks are Jews in charge of exactly? Credit unions are taking customers from banks, or are those Jew run as well?

>>5762430
>Bitcoin is digital gold

Let me guess, you only buy gold on paper rather than physical.

>>5762436
>it can ONLY be bought with fiat
wrong.
you can charge people for goods or services in crypto, some people already do.

I use coinbase, any faster cheaper way to buy alt coins?

>>5762511

I can't say I'm into the crypto world to understand forks and why some are more valuable than others as I've never owned any. What I can say is that of the 1370 coins on the coin market cap website hundreds don't have actual websites or development teams listed, which I take to be evidence of a scam.

this thread is reducing my iq. the fuck is up with you nocoiners?

Hi OP you just described the current global banking system. Its just numbers on a computer no big pallets of physical cash/gold are trolleyed around its just numbers.
Your saying Bitcoin has no actual value but its currently valued at $13,537.40 USD. If you owned that digital coin you could trade it in for cash.People are also trading real life goods for coins.
Ive been looking it up as i got some bucks to burn so why not. So far ive learnt that people run mining rigs that perform the calculations for when people make a transaction when this is done the rig owner gets paid a cut of the transaction fee. Basically every transaction the miner gets a cut so you get fucking jewed by the miner. I read some people traded a few dollars and got charged double to do it. And sometimes the transaction takes days to compute. Theres also exchanges where you can buy sell all the different coins and keep them in the exchange, now some of these exchanges have been hacked and millions fucken stolen. I was also looking at the market and saw theres auto trader software to buy/sell. and people complaining of daily pump and dumps which are most probably from these auto programs. Its like the wild west. Now i tried to get some coins and the exchange here in nz asked for my details for verification and now i gotta wait so the govt here are tracking it most probably for tax or money laundering.
Now my theory on this crypto coin is Cartels, sanctioned countrys, and even maybe the pentagons black project are moving money through it. Plus every one jumping on board its a shit show. How many Bit coins have been lost as well. A guy in the news here threw away his rig at the dump and thinks its might be worth 70million now.

>>5762516
>alt coins
binance. buy ethereum on coinbase, then transfer it there and trade it.

>>5762512

I'm not persuaded in the value of Blockchain either - for me something has value if it makes profits, not if it is a cool technology or is a popular social network.

>>5762447
You can't completely ignore his response and type a bunch of unrelated random shit and pretend that counts as a conversation. Either address his point about Tether or commit suicide.

>>5762510
600 year old one of a kind painting in good condition by worlds most famous painter who was also one of (them). No utility same inherent value as my turtlecoin ledger

>>5762520
Thanks anon, will look into it.

>>5762441
Same is true if we're able to pluck gold particles out of the ocean or air at a profitable rate, there's billions of tons of gold on Earth, most of it is just currently out of reach.

Bitcoin got kiked anyway, it is not worth investing in. Blockstream completely controls Bitcoin now and Blockstream is paid for by the Bilderberg group - aka Mastercard.

Bitcoin Cash is the true successor to Bitcoin and is finally free to actually scale instead of being artificially choked so as to squeeze people onto secondary proprietary solutions which is what Blockstream is aiming for.

Buy Bitcoin Cash. The real Bitcoin.

>>5762515

but crypto (God willing) as of now and never will be Essential for a Necessary purpose - like paying your taxes or buying food. For now, at least, and hopefully in the future, it is something some vendors can choose to charge in at their discretion.

>>5762424

just try to get in on the scam, that's what most people do

>>5762516
From what I read, that is the standard.

>>5762517
Hell yeah bro! Just look at the dotcom bubble, there were scam artists, therefore the internet never happened.

>>5762469
Yet again you ignorantly ramble about infinite liquidity from the Federal Reserve while pretending Tether doesn't exist. Please go back in time and hang yourself with your own umbilical cord

>>5762510
>Does a Picasso painting have utility? What about the statue of David?
Yes, it is a physical asset you can hang it on your wall or place it in your room admire and use it for inspiration or as a teaching tool or trade it to someone seeking inspiration derived from their knowledge of being connected directly to Picasso, Michelangelo, or Da Vinci, but you moved the goalpost away from utility since you were initially trying to say that bitcoin had a similar physical utility to that of gold with numerous other physical uses that back up its abstract value.

>>5762519

the longer normies are throwing $100s at the bitcoin spreading the reverse gains the longer all the child trafficking weapons dealing drug addict degenerates can live absurdly wealthily, good job sir

>>5762424
>it is based on nothing other than the belief in the technology as a kind of electronic Western Union
Same problem as conventional fiat. The fundamental fact of the matter is that you're never going to be able to transmit precious metal down a wire. Deal with it.
>but it is not anonymous
Far more anonymous than a Bank Account - whereby you have to provide several proofs of identification just to open a bank account.

I want to clarify here that while I'm pro-Bitcoin conceptually, I'm not pro-Bitcoin as it exists right now. It has been ((()))'d since 2015 when Blockstream took over and deliberately crippled its usability in order to stunt adoption. Bitcoin Cash (BCC/BCH) is the coup to restore it as intended: low-fee currency intended for world-wide commerce.
The other good cryptos are the privacy coins - which struggle with scaling but address Bitcoin's anonymity/privacy concerns.

>>5762519

Exactly. It is a Wild West. Fiat is backed by military force and legal obligation, and the belief and trust of normies - and, I forgot to mention - thin air. But at least with Fiat you don't get Wild West schemes, pump and dump, cartels, intelligence agencies, gangster ICOs, etc. basically, Nowadayz it is like a prison mess hall you have to have a crew, inside information, and so on to play the crypto game, it is not for JQ Public they will get fleeced.

>>5762527
Yeah haha Pepe coin is up 100 fold maybe I shoulda bought that in 1/17?

>>5762521
If you are unable to profit from emerging markets and only want historically stable equity then I would suggest the SNP 500. Just get an ETF since you're clearly brain dead.

>>5762529
Yes, but retail lost big and got burned - the NASDAQ dropped 90% - my plan is to buy later this year after the 90% crash, MAYBE if I can figure out what I'm doing. But I still have to believe in a fundamental store of value before I do this, rather than just price speculation. The time to buy NASDAQ was 02 not late 99.

>>5762424
>Bitcoin has no actual value
Just like fiat then, no?

>>5762536

that is not it, that is the point I am making - I want value, not price speculation, emerging markets are stores of values, so are IPOs and they also have legal protections and the goal is a profit, which should be the goal of a business, altcoins and bitcoins and ICOs to me are 99% ponzi scheme 1% social network with cool technology backed by faith until something better comes along. basicaly, not worth my money in the same way that a small share in a real business would be.

>>5762424
>Fuck yeah I'm jealous is you made huge money off of Bitcoin or Litecoin or Ripple or Dash or Cardano or whatever. I was going to buy Litecoin at $3 in 12/13 and could have bought it at $3 in 5/17 and become a millionaire

I don't think you can sell that much crypto for fiat unless you know some big time traders.

>>5762538
Argument answered - fiat is backed by nothing, but the military force that enforces the legal obligation that it will be used for essential transactions like taxes and buying food. The fact that fiat is backed only by this does not mean that other instruments have any value when they are backed by nothing than blind or ill-reasoned faith and a social network with some cool technology.

>>5762531
Bitcoin has utility too, but that's not the only thing that gives it its value. Like you said a Picasso painting has some kind of physical utility as a beautiful thing that brings pleasure when admiring it, although that's stretching the definition of utility. Art has value because it's scarce and because it's beautiful, which is a subjective value. Nonetheless art is a store of wealth, just like bitcoin and gold.

>>5762534
It doesn't matter if the bad guys are using it they are propping it up, if it didn't exists they'd just trade pallets of cash. Its practically the alpha of the mark of the beast most likely. I just wanna get in on the alt coin its still earlly days. plenty of normies will jump in on it. you can be skeptical about crypto but stock markets also have bubbles and crash. Might as well invest because working hard labor 60hours a week only gets my ass taxed even more. You cant even get ahead working honest hard labor long hours cause the systems rigged to rape you on tax and keep you poor. The rich will always have the advantage hiding their money in tax havens while society withers and they fucking laugh. So put your money in crypto fuck the system its rigged. Just not all of it put some in stocks, savings, cash and in ya undie draw.

>>5762540

You can do it over time - the volume on the coins is in the tens of millions of dollars for the top 10 all it takes is like a week or two if I am not mistaken - if it is not even this liquid it has no advantages whatsoever.

>>5762522
The tether thing is only on one exchange, and while it might affect the price on a short-term basis, in the long term these tamperings are always corrected.

>>5762544
Last I've heard it was not more than 2k a day. Not sure about Coinbase also they report to IRS now I think.

>>5762543

I mean this is the argument and there is something to it, but honest normies who work and save get raped in bubbles. For me the best thing is paying off actual debt with cash, it is super safe and removes the hold of the government and earns my freedom slowly and painfully, then with some of my gains, diversify and speculate.

Bitcoin and altcoins are leading indicators of the feelings of oppression and also greed, like a Rorshach test for public opinion in the fiat world countries where currency is printed like mad and backed b nothing.

I'm also concerned I"m funding black budgets and Nazis and child porn and gangsters indirectly by feeding into that system and also at best robbing normies through price speculation, I don't want to make my money that way not good karma.

>>5762546

wow that is crazy - talk about a ponzi scheme - you have money and can't withdraw it as the whales crash the price and its all legal. Thanks, I will never buy any of this!

>>5762541
Military doesn't mean anything.
Can you ever imagine US invading Japan due to unpaid debts?

>>5762548
you can do ok with small trades

>2k every day is still a lot of money

Cool story, bro.

There's also no value in the U.S. dollar. It's a fiat currency which is backed by absolutely nothing. And yet it's probably the most secure currency (other than gold) in the world.

>37 posts by this ID

>>5762542
>Bitcoin has utility too, but that's not the only thing that gives it its value.
Yes, but not what you originally described (ie the utility of its abstract value is the abstractness of its value for utility), like I said, its physical utility is the prime number key pairs calculated by the network and the computing power of the network.

I never said anything about beauty, I was alluding to its brush strokes ability of passing knowledge of a craft. That is not subjective either, Picasso, Michelangelo, and Da Vinci only had so much time on earth to learn their craft and make a limited number of expert level brush strokes.

>>5762424
god I am sick of explaining bitcoins value to retards like you.

>>5762424
i mined some dogecoins back in the days, now theyre worth 1000$ lmao.
then i put it into xlr and ripple after the news, why did i do that? because they were in a rising trend. now i sit on 2K$ and i did no actual work for it.

>>5762554
lol this

pol never learns

>>5762548
>can't withdraw it
There are dozens of bitcoin markets your can use, you aren't limited to just one at a time.

>>5762555
go all out on link buddy. i think it's gonna work out

>>5762554

Yeah. Or Warren Buffett. Or Peter Schiff. Or the Chinese Government. Or the Indian Fiance Ministry. Or Alan Greenspan. Or Joseph Stiglitz. Or Robert Schiller. But what do those Old Economy and Physical Economy powers understand? They are only billionaires and Nobel Prize winners and leaders of powerful economies and all

>>5762537
if you do, i suggest immersing yourself in crypto twitter.
@francispouliot_
@NakamotoInst
@aantonop
@parabolictrav
@desantis
@pierre_rochard
@lopp
@fluffypony


dont bother with anybody else.

>>5762557
Transaction fees are too high right now m8.

>when it comes to crypto currency I'm a bitjew

>>5762559
>Chinese Government
lmao you are so ignorant it hurts

>>5762558
oh i wrote wrong,i didnt mean xlr, i meant xlm.
I think cardano will moon once the trade on it opens on more platforms.

>>5762547
You can say that but by working an honest living and paying taxes you are all ready funding degeneracy and Wars around the globe. I have a mortgage with probably another 25years to go and i just cant be fucked doing the job that i trained years to get. Looking for alternative income isn't wrong to try out.

>>5762562

I mean like yeah, why would I listen to Nobel Prize winning economists like Joseph Stiglitz and Robert Schiller who say it should be banned or (basically) has no value instead of a random Greek person on 4chan, it would be ignorant not to, I mean,after all, consider the prosperity of Greece nowadays

>>5762560

thanks, cut and pasted, may look into this mid-year or later after the next crash, but in any case it is way too high now

>>5762563
here's the ultimate shitcoin list
>ark
>link
>xrp
>xlm
>xrb (maybe)
all of these will keep growing, or at the very least stay flat. as of actual coins, i wouldn't be surprised if ltc hits 600 at the end of the year.

>>5762565
cringe

>>5762564
paying taxes is a necessity, Buying cryptos is a voluntary evil. There are many other ways to make money from savings, the goal is to do a safe way that is reasonably decent and contributes positively to the world around me.

>>5762567
i will just stick to my moving averages, i have 2 i use for entry and another two for exit

The revolution isn't Bitcoin--its blockchain tech. Most can't get over the currency aspect. There are very real projects right now using blockchain tech to create decentralized networks for web hosting, file storage, computing power, mobile networks, etc.

>>5762561
They were never supposed to be even nearly as high as they are now.
Go read the whitepaper. And then go read about the blocksize debate. And then ask who the malicious parties involved with Bitcoin are.
Those who saw this coming and wanted to increase the blocksize 2+ years ago?
Or those who dangled Lightning Network like a carrot for 2+ years and now insist that Bitcoin was never meant to be used as a currency?
Protip: If you can stream Netflix/Youtube on your Internet Connection, you could handle, with ease, at least 8MB blocks (despite the fact that non-mining nodes aren't really needed for Bitcoin to be decentralized anyway).

>>5762424
I have told people to buy into XRP for months and /pol/ just called me a Jew and made lots of ((( ))) in their answers.

Well, I was right on Ripple and you were all wrong. I exchanged my 3 Btc I had in March into XRP via Bitstamp and received 322,000 XRP at the then exchange rate which are worth 700k now.

I told you and you called me a Jew. I wasn't Jewing you, I wanted to make you fucking rich, but you wanted to be "muhhhh Bitcoin, decentralized super crypto coins, fuck the banks!".

I was right and you were wrong.

>>5762573
>ripple
I had 50k at some point with intent to hold longeterm, when it was near worthless, but switched it to bitcoin after some gains. Oh well.

>>5762424
>Bitcoin has no actual value, it is based on nothing other than the belief
not going to defend bitcoin, but this is true for any money or currency... everything is based on belief, some beliefs are stronger than others... even gold value is based on belief, it's not backed by anything... the only thing that has actual value is work, but you can't put it in a bag and sell it, and slavery is frowned upon these days

>>5762573
doesn't mean you're not a jew though...

>>5762424
My dream is that in 10-15 years, people will have discussed and bitched about bitcoin enough to make everyone realize again why our current monetary system is fucked up. Not just in a vague "banks are bad" or "let's stop printing money" way, but more of a "holy fuck usury and fiat are societal cancer". But I think the best we can hope for is that bitcoin will be called something between "failed monetary standard" and "pyramid scheme bubble". It's truly bizarre how the proponents of bitcoin are SO FUCKING SURE that this new standard of currency AND saving is the future. Obnoxious as hell.

I am not seeing any bitcoiners make good arguments on how the rising energy costs will be able to be fulfilled in the future. It's not sustainable.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0Piucm6c-o

>>5762438
They can steal your pc...

>>5762573
The true price might be under the zero, I mean that is negative because the bitcoins do a lot of eco damages.
Essentially you are buying pollution and since pollution has a negative value you have to pay for it's damage.

>>5762577
like if it's a new "problem"... banking has existed for millennia, and "people" have no control of the monetary system. monetary system on the other hand has absolute control over people.

about "fiatness" of the money it's irrelevant... all money in essence is fiat. even when it is backed by some commodity the commodity is only backed by the "belief".

crypto is doing one good thing and that is divorcing issuing of the money from banking, if governments start accepting taxes in crypto, banks would collapse in a day. they would give the royal family a sky burial while they're still alive before they allow that to happen.

>>5762424
Will any altcoin reach 1000? Just curious.

>>5762581
Well yeah it's not a new problem but so is government and life in general. We have to build traditions and can forget them as well, clearly, since we now have global fiat. Also
>all money in essence is fiat
is a retarded way of looking at things, because then all contracts are also backed only by "belief". You are forgetting the guns here. Bitcoin also doesn't address any of the inherent issues around capitalism and banking, it's just a piece of technology where supposedly trust is distributed. Do we still need laws on asset leveraging? Can we FINALLY love usury again? But you cryptoboys are so focused on our current banks that you think all problems will evaporate once they are gone. At the very least if you think all things bad originate there, then WW3 will be fought over bitcoin yes?

>Hey nana can I have .000000001325 BTC for a coke?
You fukkin what m8?

This shit is going to relegated to transferring money between markets outside of central banks. That some people are holding and will make a ton because new suckers are still coming along means zip. Somewhere someone has a mint edition Star Wars toy they bought for 99c and can sell for 15K. It doesnt fucking mean anything. Tulip bulbs were "worth" thousands one upon a time too. Talk about fucking being blinkered.
Let's have a gold old world war to sort out the really valuable commodities, currencies and ideas.

>>5762582
>Will bitcoin reach 1000? Just curious.

>>5762585
Well hopefully Cardano does well enough then.

>>5762424
that face you make when youre a nocoiner

>Estimated value of holdings
+$500 since the start of this thread (40% btc and 60% alts)

>>5762447
There is no use in memecoins at all why bother swapping?

>>5762583
you have to understand that governments don't work for people, they have other masters... how do you think they can afford to pay over a billion each per presidential candidate in the US? that's fucking mind-boggling...

no it's not "retarded" way of looking at things that all money is fiat! I don't see a problem with fiat at all, it's superior to gold backed etc money... because belief is all you need! belief is much more important than gold! why would some shiny piece of metal be of any great value? of course it has some uses as does any other metal, but is it industrially 10 000 times more valuable than iron? fuck no! it's rare, you can put it in a bag, and you can assert control over it, but between you and me it's still only as valuable as we believe it is!

>>5762583
as I said before I'm not defender of bitcoin, they have shitton of issues with what it actually is. all I'm saying it does have a potential to destroy evil. it was not created to specifically do that though... it actually benefits from capitalism and banking.

you do trust in pieces of paper (not actual paper though) printed by private corporation to go slave all day to have some of them. how cryptos are different? all the difference is that you can not pay taxes in them and they are virtually impossible to counterfeit.

yeah, I believe that, you got that right... banks are the most evil things there are... they start literally all the wars and are the cause of starvation and all the struggles of the people.

Bitcoin in particular is irrelevant, what's important is taking control away from banks! cryptos are a mechanism of doing that! and banks will slaughter a billion people if they need to. by banks I mean the "elites", OWG, CFR and all other secret and semisecret organizations that do everything to assume absolute control over people. banks are just a visible part of it, they are the whip in the hands of those people, one whip breaks, nothing to worry, they can take another one, make whip obsolete and they start killing people.

>>5762424
>>5762424
No more Banks that need to use their customers funds on the markets to keep inflation from deflating their value and pay for their people

Banks require money to run, they make money with the money of their clients but of they fuck up governments have to save them

Bitcoin is not centralized but all accessible, eliminating the need for Banks to play wolf on wall street with your savings

>>5762590
>why would some shiny piece of metal be of any great value?
because being a currency adds value to the material. If you think that's just "belief" then every price is just a belief as well. I'm not saying it's wrong to call it a belief, just that it's a narrow way of looking at things cause it doesn't discriminate. You can't say "fiat = actual gold cause they're both backed by belief".

>how cryptos are different?
That's kinda my point. I don't see many of our current issues leaving us if bitcoin became the dominant currency. How exactly is bitcoin going to make banks obsolete? Who's going to be doing the lending, everyone? You think the government wouldn't have a say about that? Etc etc. If "banks start wars" then what on earth is bitcoin going to do about that? It's a currency made from magical fairy dust, and if I want to be an asshole I can still crash any market I want the old-fashioned way, just like how I can give retarded usurious loans as much as I want, and sell my neighbor's property to the chinese.

>>5762537
Time in the market is more than timing the market.
Trying to time the market is how to get burned.

>>5762580
>Oil price might be under zero bc it's doing ECO damages.
Yeah that's how it works.

>>5762424
Just watch this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTf5j9LDObk

>>5762582
Dash
42Coin
Bitcoin Cash

>>5762593
I don't think it's a narrow way of looking at things... I think realizing that gold has no intrinsic value is liberating and profound.

I don't really understand it how it's not as fiat as any other belief based money... the only difference is that "they" control it, they own most of it, they sell it and they buy it back. its value is as artificial as any fiat money. they can crash it's value as easy as any other asset's value...

> I don't see many of our current issues leaving us if bitcoin became the dominant currency.

the difference is you take control away from them. if they have no control over money issuance they can not exploit the system, they can not contract and expand... they can not trigger recessions

lending with crypto is even easier than with old school banks... ethereum is built exactly with this in mind... smart contracts and shit... crowd sourced lending and insurance. no more hungry executives to feed.

>You think the government wouldn't have a say about that?

well of course they will have lots to say about that... they have to... their masters will demand that

>If "banks start wars" then what on earth is bitcoin going to do about that?

unfortunately nothing

>It's a currency made from magical fairy dust

as is any other central bank issued currency! only when central bank does that they charge interest

>and if I want to be an asshole I can still crash any market

yeah you can... at this point it's very volatile... but as a system it's much more stable than any central bank system... and it's much less fraud prone and less insider trading prone... everyone is on much evener ground AND you own whatever the hell you own... if you deposit money in the bank, it's no longer your money

>>5762432
Where do you go to buy alt?
I couldn't find a solid app. Not that I'm opposed to buying over the internet, but it's just nice to have everything in one manageable location.

>>5762598
>I think realizing that gold has no intrinsic value is liberating and profound.
but the correct realization is that gold has added value because of this "belief" that it can be a good medium for currency and savings. What you're saying is the equivalent of "realizing" that relativism is correct and that therefor everything is arbitrarily based on this nebulous belief. I'm not a fan of gold money but I'm using it as an example to show that this "belief" is not arbitrary. You can not use grain as money for many reasons. What are they?

>the difference is you take control away from them.
I understand that this is their argument, but from where I'm sitting you only take some part of the control away from them, just like how fiat takes away the 'control' of having to physically mine money in order to increase its supply. You say lending is 'easy' with crypto and my counter-argument is that it's easy with gold and fiat too, but they 'control' the supply through force. They would do the same with crypto, and they can.

>only when central bank does that they charge interest
not according to your libertarian thinkers. They believe charging money at interest is the lifeblood of capitalism, and that it will happen with any currency. Of course it's a problem that only banks are allowed to lend money, but I think this is because the government actually controls the country, not because of any property of the money. It's easier with fiat and harder with crypto, sure, but the liberation doesn't come from distributing a ledger of transactions.

Look I think we agree that the current system is shit but I am entirely unconvinced that crypto is going to take 'control' away from them, because I find it very easy to imagine a central banking system based on crypto.

>>5762600
if the "belief" is the main ingredient in the value of gold, then how is gold in particular good? it's bad in the way that there's very limited amount of it, and most of it belongs to small group of people... so it's very easy for them to manipulate its value. the only things that have intrinsic value are things you can use, like food and labor. but it's impractical or impossible to store. so the most perfect money would represent that. not gold. you don't have to believe in food for it to be valuable. and if I new nothing about what food is it still would be valuable because it makes living possible. if I knew nothing of gold it would be as valuable to me as any other piece of metal... in reality what makes money valuable is the ability to pay taxes in it... and more abundant it is the better, it takes away "fairy dust" power from commodity holders and gives all of it to governments which would in turn be less corruptable by commodity holders. England had wooden money at some point, worked brilliantly...

>you only take some part of the control away from them

you can't take all the control away with one action... even if you had enough bullets, you would not be able to round them up, some would still get away... you take as much control away as you can

>>5762600
>They would do the same with crypto, and they can.

I say they wouldn't... they can't take absolute control over crypto like they can over banking system... they would do everything to exploit it, and they already do, but they can not take control over it... as soon as they attempt, investors would flee, there are more than enough places to invest

mmm... you must be mistaking me with someone else... I see pure capitalism as worst type of cancer... if you have a tiny mole, doesn't matter... if it takes over your body you are fucked... I'm fine with charging interest, but only when you lend your own money, and no fractional bullshit either...

ledger is for "belief" part and security... that's what makes it impossible to counterfeit... liberation comes from taking away power from banks.

>Of course it's a problem that only banks are allowed to lend money

not sure where you're from, but this is not true here... and that is not a problem... the problem is that they are allowed to make money in a sense when they say "I have a million $", print that statement on a piece of paper, somehow that becomes truth.

>Look I think we agree that the current system is shit but I am entirely unconvinced that crypto is going to take 'control' away from them, because I find it very easy to imagine a central banking system based on crypto.

yeah it's shit... and I don't find it particularly problematic when there is central bank... I find it ridiculous that the central bank is not controlled by government... that government can't issue its own money. and that the whole monetary system is usually controlled by private individuals. businesses are there to exploit every opportunity they have... and they give absolute control over money to them... fucking travesty

>>5762601
Belief is the central ingredient in ANY value. You can make the same argument for the price of a toaster. Prices are mysterious and all we know is that they are influenced by the production and properties. I agree with every other point you make about hard currencies, except for
> the only things that have intrinsic value are things you can use, like food and labor.
This is marxist nonsense to me. You can not work out the intrinsic value of anything, nor even define it as a number in any sensible way. That the keynesians pretend they can with their GDP growth doesn't make it any less absurd. Anyway you still seem to me like the people who "realize" relativism of perspectives, and then suggest that the belief is arbitrary.

>they can't take absolute control over crypto like they can over banking system
I just don't see any reason why this is the case. Where can investors flee to when a government controls a country? All these conditions you mention are already true at various points in the past with both hard and fiat currencies. Liberation won't come if you don't take away any real power.

Also I can guarantee you that wherever you live, the government says who can and can not lend money, in the same way that they decide who can and can not be a doctor or lawyer.

>>5762576
>doesn't mean you're not a jew though...

Well I am not a Jew. But I was smart enough to invest in the only tech that actually makes sense. I am holding until at least 5 to 6 USD per XRP, then I sell half my XRP and can quit my job and do my start up full time.

I am a lawyer and with my shitty associate wage I could never have made it. Lawyers get crap in terms of money, even in large law firms. Never study law! I had to learn this the hard way. My brother is a dentist, 31yrs and younger than me, has a kid, a blonde wife and drives a fucking Porsche. I work 20hrs more than him a week, have no wife, no kid and no Porsche. Fuck the law. At least he also refused to invest in XRP and this Xmas he said I was right and he was an idiot not investing when I told him.

>>5762424
It has value because people assign it a value and are willing to trade at that value for it. Your concerns are completely valid though; I'd say the best comparison for Bitcoin would be pokemon cards. One day a Charizard is worth a few hundred bucks but the next day pokeman stops being hot and no one is willing to pay that

>what is tether
>what is transaction speed
>what is transaction costs
>what is scam lightning network
>what is exchanges crashing all at the same time, during sell offs.
>what is mtgox and btc-e
>what is bots

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYHFrf5ci_g

you might want to look this shit up before buying bitcoin
bitcoin will never be used as a true currency

>>5762604
Look dude nobody is saying that you can't get rich off bubble/currency speculation and pyramid schemes. Doesn't mean it's right, doesn't mean you're not jewing people.

>>5762455
Ffs bitcoin made me agree with a meme flag nigger.
>>5762438
Bitcoin holds only intrinsic value. It has no value in and off itself. This is why it will fail. Well that’s and you can buy a subway sandwich with them so I am sure it will take off any day now and we will all be using it.

>>5762449
You really do not understand how economics or even currency works. That much is painfully apparent.

>>5762608
I often experience this discomfort when "right-wing" people are so enamored with freedom, individualism and capitalism that the old left sounds sensible by comparison. Also I think many people are honestly taken in by the idea that the blockchain will create the next currency, and that their "profits" are honestly won by recognizing this inevitability. It's not like monetary theory has been anywhere near the mainstream for at least 300 years. I think we should go easy on them in the end.

>>5762477
It is an issue you ignorate fucking looser. Bitcoin is not a viable currency. It will die out soon enough. I hope you get out before it does.

Bitcoin is the only asset that is reflecting the devaluation of the dollar. Smart money knows the US dollar is on the edge. It may fail. It may not. Bitcoin is simply outpacing possible future inflation.

>>5762480
>expensive af to transfer
>volitale
>not accepted in the vast, vast, VAST majority of places.
>a bubble
>no regulation

Basically it sounds like you too a beating in the coin market and are trying to get people to jump in so you can cut your losses. I am sure you will say you are a new millionaire several times over. Your not and no one will believe you.

Okay pay attention fellow /polacks, this is not the one to miss. BNTY and PRL have proven in the last week that anything that touches Kucoin is going to surge. Now DBC (Deep Brain Chain) is on the same path, as you can see it has the highest trading volume on KuCoin. On the other hand Kucoin's total daily trading volume is sitting at a tiny $32m compared to Binance's $2.8b and Binance is only 5 months old. Kucoin has grown 800% in the last 60 days and it's aggressive listing of new unknown coins such as BNTY and DBC is going to be a major contributor to this growth. We're at a point now where normies are seeing this: https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/kucoin-shares/ or https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/deepbrain-chain/ and scrambling to get onboard with the moon missions.

How do you take advantage of Kucoin's growth? KuCoin Shares.

Anon, what the hell are KuCoin Shares?

KuCoin is dead serious about being a major force in the exchange world. They want growth and they want it fast - to facilitate this they're offering dividends in the form of trading fees to their investors. 50% of the entire trading fee revenue on the Kucoin platform will be shared daily with those holding KCS on their exchange. This is a two-fold investment with ridiculous growth potential as a result, you buy KCS, the exchange grows, your KCS rises in price, and the amount of dividends you are generating grows with it.

Details: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NolXWUOalQ

My current plan is to ride our /biz/ alt-coin profit and reinvest into KCS down the line. See you in 2020 when I'm still holding and living off my dividends, I hope you are there with me.

Kucoin's referral system is genius too; you are rewarded some % of the trading fees that your invitees take on. If I shilled you into this Godcoin please consider using my referral code when signing up if you don't have a Kucoin account yet: 1gbxJ

>>5762611
If I lose my bank card and bank info and pin card etc, someone can steal my money. Fuck off kike. Crypto is here to stay

>>5762615
>t. baby who has never had his first bank account
MODS
UNDERAGE
MODS

>>5762610
You think my political leaning changes the validity of my argument? That is pretty fucking stupid even for a frog.
I frankly do not care how anything or anyone makes you feel.
If you think investing in crypto is a good idea because a rag tag group of maverick investors say they feel like it isn’t a good idea then you deserved to have your money taken in a scam. You should go to bed frog. You may be drunk

>>5762614
Shill it someplace else memeflag faggot.

>>5762424

AW GEE I SURE DONT LIKE BITCOIN LET ME START A THREAD IM NOT A STRAWMAN BTW

>>5762603
labor as in if you need shit done you have to pay people... there is no way of getting house built if no one builds it, you have to do it yourself (labor of your own) or pay someone to do it for you (you buy labor). getting shit done is going to cost you always, and you need it always, you can live off the land, but there is no way around it... either you pay for it or you do it yourself.

that and food is the most basic type of valuable that exists... and money is just a mediator between these two and other valuables... if you could store food compactly and it would not spoil there would be no need for other types of money, everyone would just pay each other if foodcoins.

I'm not an expert in marxist nonsense so I don't know if that's how he means it.

>Where can investors flee to when a government controls a country?

fleeing investors as in fleeing capital... not physical fleeing, if a bank would attempt to blatantly exploit and abuse one crypto it would be easy to transfer all assets to another... which would make the first one useless.

taking away real power will always entail revolution and war... you have to disintegrate the system and make it obsolete so it decomposes on its own. sure I don't know if it's even possible... but many things impossible 100y ago are happening now.

>the government says who can and can not lend money

lend other peoples money yes... if you lend someone your own money it's nobody's business... any private person can lend anybody 100 bucks without issue... even a million... people do it all the time.

>>5762615
Yeah yeah crypto is the answer to all power-games by banks. You think someone can't steal your money in a distributed ledger system? Fucking hell.

>>5762617
i'm agreeing with you dude, what are you talking about.also i'm not a frog you dumb burger.

>>5762525

fuck off Btrash scamcoin. If its not BTC its not going to be Btrash thats for sure.

>>5762615
Lol. False comparison maple nigger but thanks for playing. If I loose any of those I can retrieve them. If my account is robbed FDIC (CDIC in leaf) will insure my money. If an exchange decides they want to rob you than you get robed and there is nothing you can do about it (mtgrox) and no way to recover your money. So enjoy your Ponzie scheme.

>>5762424
Your Fiat paper is backed by nothing as well.

>>5762622
Sorry toothpaste. It’s the smell of baked goods and unwashed niggers that confused me. Lack of sleep also. Fuck I need a life.

>>5762625
>namefag
>thinking its opinion matters

Cute.

>>5762620
>labor as in
I don't care. Of course things have intrinsic value as long as people are inherently consistent in their wants. That doesn't mean you can actually get at this value because the only way it is defined is compared to the other things people can want for. Every theory of "intrinsic value" degenerates into marxist nonsense where society is treated as a bunch of individuals/classes that can be identified and described by their materialistic needs. I'm not arguing that things don't have value apart from the monetary system used to measure it, I'm saying you can not develop a theory that describes this value in any way. It's truly marxist nonsense and I hate to see sensible economics infected by it.

>if a bank would attempt to blatantly exploit and abuse one crypto it would be easy to transfer all assets to another
I agree, but my point was that this would be impossible because of government intervention. Let me ask you this: would your picture of an ideal future feature multiple competing currencies in a single country? I'm willing to bet that it does, in which case you have to explain in theory why this feature is independent of the government structure. And if it's dependent on government (i.e. force) then you have to explain how this is not an issue because the power and profitability of crypto will cause actual revolution. I am here making the case that I am entirely unconvinced that crypto has this kind of potential. Everybody keeps repeating that the only thing that keeps the central banks in charge is what is fixed by crypto. I'm not buying it.

>any private person can lend anybody 100 bucks without issue
This is illegal my guy, almost everywhere on earth. I'm not sure where you're getting this from. The very existence of our planet's currencies is dependent on the governments that control our countries. I can't start my own currency because its value is dependent on security concerns.

>>5762604
how is XRP making more sense than any other no BS crypto (except BTC of course)... as I see it XRP is booming only because situation for BTC in Asia is fucky and all the BTC holders with twitchy buttholes flee to XRP.

IOT is something that makes sense on the paper and quite different than others... but it's still not fully functional... ETH too... but it's kind of expensive already (still some room to go though to BTC levels)... BCH, LTC and others are just slightly different from BTC so nothing revolutionary...

>>5762431

>>5762424
OP is correct. Unironically this is the most accurate poster I've seen talking about cryptos. I almost bought in 2011, but I thought through the implications and quickly realized the problems: Infinite identical competitors, MSM induced price manipulation, high volatility, massive energy consumption, increasing transaction times, unwieldy blockchain size, etc. What I didn't account for was how long it takes human ignorance and stupidity to catch up with what only took me a few hours of careful consideration to understand. When you point the issues out, you either get "huehue missed the boat u mad" or "so tired of explaining this" with no explanation or honestly the most childish and ignorant arguments imaginable (they are peppered throughout this thread already). My normie friends are speculating alts as we speak, which for me was all I needed to know that this bubble is preparing to run out of steam.

>>5762614

Get on the DBC & KCS train /pol. Easy to sign up, just throw a few shekels on these 2 coin and you will get some very nice returns. You will put in more later anyway.

>>5762631
How wrong you are, its not even funny.

Bubble at 600billion market cap, just lol. Bubble will pop or will get very major correction around 10-50 trillion.

DBC and KCS crew

>>5762633
>big bubbles don't exist
Are people as dumb as you real, or do you only exist digitally, like the coins you shill?

>>5762599
>Binance
has a pretty good app and is one of the really big exchanges
>kucoin
working app, still pretty small and often the first to get a exchange for the latest meme coins up

>>5762599

KuCoin.com

Referral Bonus: 1gbxJ

"KuCoin is dead serious about being a major force in the exchange world. They want growth and they want it fast - to facilitate this they're offering dividends in the form of trading fees to their investors. 50% of the entire trading fee revenue on the Kucoin platform will be shared daily with those holding KCS on their exchange. This is a two-fold investment with ridiculous growth potential as a result, you buy KCS, the exchange grows, your KCS rises in price, and the amount of dividends you are generating grows with it."

>>5762634

No coiner, dat salty 9-5 tears are all yours :)))

>>5762637
>9-5
I own my own successful business. Something they used to discuss over on /biz/. You know, owning real assets, learning real skills, making real connections. Good luck teaching your kids the lessons of shitcoin scamming: a proud father's legacy to his children. Except I have no doubt at all that you have no family and likely never will. The thought was good for a laugh, regardless, which, appropriately, is the only value intrinsic to shitcoin - a laugh.

>>5762424
Look.
If you dont have a well informed opinion on decentralised software applications you cant possibly have one on bitcoin or any other cryptocurrencies.

The 'value' lies in the fact its decentralised, uncensorable and unhackable means of exchange.

These new software models are RADICALLY different than existing ones and will have profound impacts in all aspects of society within the next 10 years.

The Sumerians invented Single Entry Accouting.
The Venitians invented Double Entry Accounting.
Satoshi Nakamoto invented Triple Entry Accounting.

What were the repurcussions of the first two?

Ripple is so Crippled

owned by the central banks, millionaire and government

scamcoin=XRP=RIPPLE

sold ath in 2017, I suggest you sell all your Ripple before its too late