/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>57352911
>coding 8 years for 0 money
Get a job at a big corporation anon. Once you are making $150k starting you won't regret it.

>>57352911
>pre-2010
I have had a decent career from like 2014 to now.

Not rich yet (as in, can't retire), but can't complain. I expect I have a few good years left until the AI apocalypse devours everything, so gonna try to make most of those.

Manual labour.

Ok I'll give you my idea since I have no skills to make it myself.

Steal a bunch of images of people from the internet. Make a website where visitors are presented with images of two random people along with a random question like "Which one is the scariest/ugliest/strongest" etc. And after they choose, present them with two new images and a question and so on. Run all the images and answers through an AI to and make statistics of which race, gender, identity etc and their scores for each question and present it to the visitor.

This website will be addicting because people like to have opinions on things and it's addicting to click. The statistics itself will be racist and divisive which will encourage people to share these results and bring more visitors to the site.

Then you run bunch of ads on the site

>>57352911
why do you ignore DeFi?

Coding for 6 yrs current company is on the brink of bankruptcy.
Linkedin inbox is eerily quiet, all the past jobs I had I was recruited and never had to look for a job. Now it seems like no one is hiring.
It's getting pretty spooky in this industry

>>57352911
Coding is dead
AI has destroyed entry level positions and the only interest a giga corp has in a real person coder is to manage the AI outputs and give it inputs
It takes 1/10 the manpower than current coding teams even when outsourced
Fuck, a simple non-CS project manager could get away with leading an AI Coding 'team'

>>57353091
Thanks fren I just registered this for copyright, hope you do well with your next endeavor.

>>57353460
can you explain how? what are these models being used to make?

are startups still a thing?

>>57353489
Rather than needing 10 competent coders, you can downsize to a single AI expert
Someone who can take a corporate request (make report that generates X,Y,Z for Finance) then use AI to write the code and implement

The last several years, coding was in high demand because companies were evolving to the fully digital age; now every where has an app needing security and reporting
That demand has faded

>>57353464
It's literally just the Zuckerberg thing from the social network movie.

>>57353528
Such technology doesn't exist yet. It probably will exist in the near/mid-future, but the AI that exists today is still kind of a joke for the sort of real world use you're describing.

>>57352911
There are tiers
God tier-doing fundamenal computer science, kernel programming, db's, compilers, machine language, opcode etc..
Angel tier-use things god tier creates that everyone uses(eg...apache, libraries)
Retard tier-literally everyone else. The odds that you are here is very high. You are in a market that is so saturated now its nearly incomprehensible.

>>57353528
This is bullshit, chatgpt writes code that is barely passable as a jeet fivver programmer.
It will get better, but its not there yet.
The job as a programmer you should be trying to get is writing the ai. These faggots have convinced everyone they are dojng something no one else can do and its a lie.

>>57353581
serf structure?

>>57353594
gpt got nerfed because then programmers would have jumped out of buildings

>>57353581
There is nothing that special about compilers or kernels or databases. The reason few people do those things is because it's a very winner take all market, so it's hard to make your product stand out.

Good. Coding should be a hobby, not something fatass autists and pajeets make money of.

>>57353633
Its core computer science.
The average jeet/chink/udemy coder is totally clueless.
Ask them what O(n) is and you will be meet with a blank stair.

There’s literally an insane barrier to entry to make as a coder. Unless you meet a specific niche in a market and can code faster than a Jeet for less money, you’re fucked as a freelancer. And good luck getting that corporate job. Even if you’re not going FAGMAN some of these places just looking to design a stupid website have insane levels of barrier to get into just so you can change the color hex code on their gay ass website.

Go cyber security if you want to make money. Fudge your resume to make it sound like you’ve been in the industry for years.

>t. Pod anon

>>57353873
>stair
Lmao

>>57353873
Problem is Big O doesn’t matter with webapps despite what all our CS professors drilled into us. It’s good design philosophy don’t get me wrong, but the database you’d need to work with for it to be important isn’t something we let the jeets, chinks, and Jr’s touch.

I said this last thread and I'll say it again, I never know who to believe, biz says coding is dead yet I know several coders in the uk who did bootcamps and walked in to a job. When I repeat biz talking points about coders they look confused and tell me their companies are crying out for more coders.

>>57354191
I don’t know about UK. I’m only speaking about burgerland. I do know UK coders make significantly less than what is Burgers demand, so there’s probably less barrier to entry

>>57354191
>crying out for more coders
Read, crying out for more senior coders (or highly talented at least) willing to work for entry level pay. I gave up on it because I'm not talented, and between productivity enhancing tools (Copilot, etc) and billions of jeets, there is no demand for an average coder. Never mind someone who thinks they can walk into a job where they'll actually teach you something.
Either you have a rock star portfolio and skills, or you're not getting a job.

>>57354191
Why trust your lying eyes when there are 1pbtid 4chan demoralization threads to read!

>>57352911
"Learn2code" has always been a meme. At best, you'll end up working help desk for years on end with your CS degree and useless certs.

Only the best of the best (or those with connections) will ever break into the tech industry and, if they're lucky, won't be laid off during the next recession. Oh, and get used to being treated like shit by employers. It will only get worse.

Welcome to the real world, kiddo.

>>57354600
Also "tech industry" in this case refers to being a codemonkey and not a help desk slave

>>57354191
UK software developer here. There are a lot of developers but most people are shit developers. There are not many good developers which is what most places mean when they say they "can't find anyone"

Former corporate coder here. Quit a couple years ago and haven't looked back since. You're correct OP in that the coding industry is collapsing, but there is still demand there and there. Problem is, any demand for junior to mid level devs is practically gone now. The only demand left is for senior devs because AI will obviously replace mid level devs eventually after AI & imported jeets already replaced the junior devs. Corporations will never stop trying to find ways to save money by trimming the bottom line (aka useless parasite junior devs).

Now for my question everyone: I'm stuck here with a CS degree but have decided to move on from coding. Which other career paths should I pursue where I can work 100% remote, and without anything to do with code whatsoever? Also, the niche fields you recommend can't be mega-oversaturated either (ie: if you recommend cybersecurity, I need to know exactly which cybersec fields would be best ie Pentester, IAM, etc.).

>>57353994
Our cs professors trained us to work on things that matter.
1% of us end up working on things that matter, the rest of us work on retarded webapps.
There id a difference between programmers who churn out trash.

It's a combination of coming out of the learn2code mania phase of coding and rising interest rates encouraging companies to downsize.l, it has almost nothing to do with AI lol

Programming is wholly reliant on whether the government is currently able to give fucktons of free money to silicon valley corporations AND if the government is restricting visas from India.

Trump's presidency was a unique period because he was giving so much free shit to tech companies to grow the stock market so he could tweet about it, while also reducing H1B visas from the 500k they were under Obama to 50k. This meant if you were an american it was easy to get into tech during a period of massive growth.

Ironically but not surprisingly, the redditors employed in san francisco did not reward Trump's kindness by making California a red state and instead voted to completely destroy tech- which is why there were mass layoffs beginning in 2022 once the flood of 500k H1Bs a year under Biden began, while tech companies were badly fucked by rate hikes. Right now the nasdaq has recovered but hiring in tech has not because rates remain high under Biden (they were low under trumo).

The end result of all these factors, including the stupidity of the average techie, is that tech is fucking dead right now.

>>57354941
This. Anyone thinking it's anything other than this has a fundamental misunderstanding how any industry works, let alone tech. Credit rules the world, and a credit dry spell is what's driving suppressed demand.

>>57354751
Only so many things that matter. And unless you work for a FAGMAN developing AI in the US. Better start learning to do shitty webapps if you like eating. Either that or make vidya and deal with that abuse. I can’t speak for places outside of Burgerland. But there isn’t much demand for programmers outside of unfortunately doing gay webapps. And even then the barrier to entry is retarded. Don’t fall for the coding meme unless you truly love this stuff. And a lot of the job/s you’re going to have to do right out the gate are going to be the shitty webapp or you’ll be stuck doing css despite all your skills being in backend. This is the reality of the industry.

>>57354700
Corpo that is 2 years from retired here.

Why the fuck do you want to get out of corpo coding. Barrier to entry is extremely high and salaries are excellent w/remote?

Answer for you; You can pivot into dev-ops/infra-as-code easily. Those jobs any retard who can create ai prompts can do. Only barrier is they need experience. You lie and put 3-4 years of exp in your resume and get a job.

>>57354941
Also I'd like to point out id says LINK OOOOOOO

Coincidence?

>>57352911
Humanities chads won

Is cybersecurity worth pursuing or meme?

>>57356074
When we're all sitting on the scrapheap NEET'ing it up together, then unironically yes. Us engineering cucks liked to solve problems, but there aren't any interesting problems to be solved for most of us. If nothing else you guys at least got to expand your mind with ideas and probably also got humanities pussy.

>>57352911
>sucking corporate dick
Unless you are in upper management, you do this regardless of job

>>57356097
It’s worth pursuing.

is there any decent entry remote jobs outside of coding? gov worker looking to work from home so i can move to homestead.

thanks, great insight, so do i kms before or after getting my comp sci degree?

I may or may not work for the DoD. We're overflowing with webdev rejects now. My boss randomly asked one day "Are we more frontend work or backend work?" I gave him an answer and started laughing once I realized why he asked. I think it's probably still fairly easy to get a job in the DoD, but it will eventually dry up I think once we're overrun with webshitters

>>57353594
The only job that will exist is a programming manager that verifies and organizes prompts that AI will use to write blocks initial code which will then be verified by a small team of the best programmers.

In max 5 years, a team of 5-10 good programmers + AI will be able do the same.job as a team.of 300 programmers but at 1/5th the cost and 1/10th the time
...

>>57352911
You probably are dumber than you think.

I got 8yoe no degree, and making about 350k fully remote as a senior SWE now.

>>57356957
I work DoD and most of mellenials and gen-z don’t want to get security clearances because they’d have to stop doing their drugs and would have to work onsite for classified projects. It’s like every IT position we have to fill takes 6-12 months to find someone because everyone wants to work from home lol

Been great for me, my income has nearly doubled the last few years job hopping taking on the roles no one else wants to and they’re paying top dollar for cleared people

>>57357066
Technically speaking you can be your own IT/IA. I thought this would be a conflict of interest, but all you have to do is the right training.

>Been great for me, my income has nearly doubled the last few years job hopping taking on the roles no one else wants to and they’re paying top dollar for cleared people

Are you just working in private industry, contractors, or still within the government?

>>57357066
>>57356957
is there any jobs a gs-05 could apply for these positions remote or not? former dept of agriculture/dept of interior here

>>57352911

>>57356971
That sounds like an awful thing for the world in general.

>>57352911
>I've been trying to make it as a code-bro fpr 8 years now, never to have made any money.
so what have you been doing? you never thought to get a job? you dumb fucking retard?

>>57354941
They've been pushing women to study cs the same way they pushed women into stem and engineering. The warning signs were there

>>57355070
good post

>>57357066
I have a few fellow zoomer friends who have gotten job offers from Raytheon recruiters right out of college or even while still in college and they all just flat out ignored the offers for some reason
I asked them why and they just said something vaguely to the effect of "Ive heard its not that enjoyable to work for them" or "they dont pay that much"
I even tried to talk them into it, mentioning that government contractors certainly have great benefits that make up for the sub 100k starting salary and that itd be a great first real job to use as a stepping stone
but they just didnt care
I think they just dont want to work
and Im not one to talk considering Im a NEET lol

>>57358231
>awful thing for the world in general
anon thinks tech is what makes the world spin. it's a bubble retard, like every other industry. you faggots confused gatekeeping with intellect and intellect with what matters most. muh i can code makes me smart therefore better than. you're getting in the way of progress. tech's value comes from making life easier for retards. what happens when all the retards are fed? you're out of a fucking job, that's what. tech is a dead end for all the reasons you don't want it to be.

AI will not destroy software developers. Only non-techies and actual codemonkeys scream about AI taking their jobs. If your job consists of adding buttons and changing their color/position, then your job is indeed in danger of being automated. If you solve complicated problems with software, then you are likely safe.

Software development did get harder to enter because entry-level dev could be a CS grad or a person who took 3-week bootcamp (those call themselves "software engineers" most often).

That's why interviewing for this positions became so gruelling. Applicants have to showcase their skills in a high-stress environment and many flunk because of it, even if they have the skills.

There are still a lot of jobs in software, be it embedded, kernel level, desktop software. Most discussions online only focus on webdev because it is kind of easier and that's where a bootcamp grads mostly end up.

>>57352911
What did you do over 8 years? What do you mean you never made any money?

>ITT: webcucks and javashits complain that it's over for them
good.

The big $ opportunities in tech require learning skills that most people aren’t willing to build. If all you have to offer is building Node CRUD apps, you’re in for a tough time competing against a global pool of low wage labour.

But show me a person who understands the Kernel interface, networking, databases, or high performance UIs at a deep level (think ~a dozen textbooks), and I’ll show you a person who’s capable of earning a couple 100k p.a.

If you’ve been doing this for 8 years and aren’t making $200k+ (assuming you’re in the US), you’re doing something fundamentally wrong and need to either:
1. be willing to relocate to a place that offers a higher density of opportunities (NYC, the valley)
2. seek out higher prestige jobs that you can chain into even higher prestige jobs
3. build skills that create disproportionate value for your company and aim to capture a % share of it
4. (least likely) join a more meritocratic organization that rewards your skills by funneling a share of the profits/savings towards you

This is still a highly lucrative career for those who are willing to learn and differentiate themselves through deep expertise.

I’ve decided this week to quit my job in a couple months and start a program where I will get paid neetbucks to get the lowest grade official it certification in my country. Sorry, but I just won’t listen to all the fud. It might be a buy when there is blood in the streets kind of situation. If I’m wrong I will just go back to operating a crane or drive a truck or something.

bump

>>57352911
Learn to plumb

>>57360258
I'm working on #3 myself. What apps do you deem worthy if not Node CRUD apps

>>57353926
>Fudge your resume to make it sound like you’ve been in the industry for years
Wouldn't you get caught?

>>57362840
So?

>>57353528
Good, the economy needs truckers, plumbers, electricians, social workers and nurses. Plenty of work opportunities for the laid-off tech people to fulfill

>>57354191
Most coding takes place in India now. They need people with lots of experience, not new guys walking in from the street, unless these are willing to work for what the Indians are making

>>57363339
>Good, the economy needs social workers
If by economy, you mean black market of "fostered" children

>>57352911
I made some decent money over the last 15 years or so in software. I'm truly and utterly burned out on it. Not on the software part, but on the organization/people part. As you become more senior your job turns more into playing politics than solving technical problems. I have seen the darkest behaviors in people and have now lost all my faith in human beings. I am no longer interested in making more money, paying more taxes, or climbing any sort of fake made up bullshit ladder. I refuse to be manipulated by managers, or by peers trying to sabotage me for their own financial and political gain.

My current plan is to try to preserve my wealth as much as possible and then rope when it runs out. Wish me luck.

>>57352911
Selling tools to the gold miners. AKA amazon sellers for todays age. Why aren't you developing scanning and analytic tools for Amazon and e-Bay sellers? The competition has a monopoly and they charge an absurd amount. Amazon literally provides this data for you to use in your own tools.

What do you guys think about becoming an electrician?

>>57363986
See how long you can lift your arms above your head in a day?

>>57353060
i did coooding and IT for about 5 years (and bought bitcoin) and now I haven't really worked for 3 years, except for sometimes in the factory. like maybe 6 months out of 3 years I worked in a factory. manual labour.... and its nice. i actually like it. sitting behind thecomputer all day cooding sucks

>>57364001
I don't have a problem with physical stuff, personally.

>>57363938
By the way I will also add that H1-Bs contribute to a highly toxic environment in tech in the U.S. and it is largely not their fault. They are absolutely terrified to lose their jobs and be deported and therefore they will completely fuck you to save themselves. This has happened to me twice with two different H1-B managers.

>>57364029
Honestly it's a good career choice. It's not as physically demanding as a lot of other trade skills.

>>57360032
>what happens when all the retards are fed?
what kind of argument is this lmao. it's not like you make an app and suddenly the world's problems are fixed, nothing left for tech to solve. totally disconnected from reality.

>>57353460
Entry level programming jobs are saturated with pajeets.
AI is doing the Lords work.

>>57355912
How many fucking apps do we need? I hate using a cellphone for doing anything online. I use it for texting/phone calls. "smartphones" are cancer to society.

>>57357048
show paycheck