/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>57261501
Total Buttcoin Death.

>>57261501
boomers vs boomers. which boomer will win?

>>57261501
Bitcoin is the biggest scam on the planet. Can't use it anywhere. Its the most obvious ponzi scheme ever devised

>>57261501
That's funny. My dad is a good customer with Merrill Lynch. He might leave them if there's no btc etf offering. He has been waiting, and learning about the asset from me.

How is this not illegal?
>Yes it's your money but we will not let you use it as you see fit!

Looks like the retards at Vanguard and Merill don't like making free money.

>>57261540
except i buy stuff with it

>>57261540
>Can't use it anywhere
Same with gold or silver but it still holds value and you can cash it out.

>>57261540
>Bitcoin is the biggest scam on the planet. Can't use it anywhere. Its the most obvious ponzi scheme ever devised

Found the broke commie loser.

>>57261587

after downloading a 200 gb ledger

...and paying $50 in fees

...and of course it's not instantly

>>57261588
Bitcoin has zero intrinsic value. Gold and silver both have intrinsic value.

I want to see bitcucks try to pay for something with a fantasy meme currency when the electricity goes out. Kek.

>>57261501
LYNCH them

>>57261540
no its tulip mania

>>57261540
BTC, like Au, is a Money (store of value), not currency (transactional media), remember that Au has rarely been used as currency (transactional media), poor monies like Ag were used instead. The value of Money is derived from demand for Store of Value, Money stores value dispersed within the economy by being something that meets the demand for SoV, as demand for SoV is consistently high, Money will retain value given normal functioning of the economy. BTC is still an immature Money which is why it's still volatile, but the properties of BTC (cryptographically fixed supply, weightless, no holding cost etc etc) make it a superior Money to the natural monies, and as network effect is huge in Money (Perfect money has universal acceptance, larger network = closer approximation to perfect money = more value) BTC, being the first of the successful synthetic Monies, will continue to cannibalize the SoV market.

>b-but it doesn't do anything!
It exists, that's all it needs to do, functional demand is DETRIMENTAL to a money, price is a product of aggregate demand, a money having functional use outside of being money means part of the price (proportional to it's functional demand) will be from functional demand, forcing buyers of Store of Value to pay a functional premium and subjecting them to the risk the functional demand will fall, causing real terms fall in money value independent of demand for Store of Value. Gold is the best natural money precisely because it has little functional demand, BTC improves on this by having no functional use outside of Money.

>>57261596
>cathie wood says so

Kek do you get all of your advice from irrelevant whackjob roasties that are 30 years past their prime?

>>57261633
>Gold and silver both have intrinsic value.
barely. doesn't explain their price.

>>57261501
Fuck them. They wont be getting my money for anything.

>>57261645
No, tulip bulbs are not finite, if there were only 21m tulip bulbs in existence we'd be using tulip bulbs and not gold as a store of value.

>>57261633
You think anyones going to give a shit about your gold when the grid collapses? How are you going to transport it? How are you going to trade when a sliver of a sliver of an ounce will be worth hundreds?

Tldr; goldbugs planning for teotwawki are retards who, if what they're planning for actually happens, shouldve been hoarding guns and seeds instead.

>>57261540
Glow more

>>57261555
Checked. Same. My dad tried shilling me their managed account services but I told him they were idiots who in the best case wouldn't even know what Markowitz portfolio theory is nor how to properly optimize their allocations. So I closed my account and my dad was seething at me for a bit because of it kek.

>>57261623
you really think 50 bucks is a dealbreaker for these who actually use bitcoin?

>>57261501
>MERILL LYNCH JOINS VANGUARD IN THEIR DECISION TO BAN BITCOIN ETFS

If true, this etf shit will spectacularly backfire on the crypto scammers.

EAT SHIT FUCKING GRIFTERS

>>57261623
i put $200 to cex, make $200 more then buy myself something nice

>>57261555
you and your dad must be pretty fucking dumb then, a bitcoin etf is the worst idea imaginable.

>>57261571
why make it illegal or legal let the free market alone

>>57261633
Cope and hope for the Comex to break

2 more weeks poor baggie!

>>57261513
>>57261540
You can give up now, you lost. Or are you getting paid to post this cringe?

>>57261633
>intrinsic value
Dullard. The only intrinsic value anything has is itself. 1 BTC = 1 BTC, 1 Au oz = 1 Au oz and so on. An ounce of Au buys a ton of wheat now, but if a meteor hits the earth and decimates wheat production will it still buy a ton of wheat? Of course not. Ergo, the value is extrinsic not intrinsic, gold derives it's value from demand for Store of Value, same as BTC, BTC better meets the demand for SoV. This halving marks the inflection point where BTC inflation (~1.7% now) fails well below gold mining inflation (2%), at all future points BTC will only ever be a better and better fixed unit of account add therefore a better and better store of value. Bitcoin is an inevitability.

>>57261783
You misunderstood. I have been holding BTC itself for many many years. My Dad doubted. But I turned him. Yet he'd only buy it via a 'reputable and insured firm' (his words).

>>57261746
I also noticed that some of their advice to customers is highly questionable.

The only losers here are the customer support reps who will have to deal with the complaints

>>57261501
>>57261501

>announce you "won't offer ETF" to customers
>buy ETF
>number go up
>customers mad, customers demand ETF
>announce you "will offer ETF" to customers after all
>profit

>>57261633
You pay with memes everyday when you use a card to pay, be it debit or credit.
It's all digital, just look at your bank account.

>>57261806
It can only be one of the two.

>>57261501
Why is there no pinned thread for the ETF today? Jannies pinned a thread about some old dumb kike passing away, but somehow this magical event goes without notice.

>>57261571
> you have to sell everything available always. ITS THE LAW
retard

>>57262016
Wtf?! That doesn't make sense

I was wondering what (((their))) narrative would be to get btc back down to touch phase 2 support levels (since it HAS to (37/38k btw)) after the etf approvals. Pretending to not be on board at first is an acceptable solution. Plausibly deniable judaism at its finest.

>>57261501
>the SEC's Twitter account is "hacked," causing a premature announcement regarding ETFs
>Vanguard bans ETFs
>now Merrill Lynch bans ETFs
This is starting to feel like manufactured chaos. Not sure what the endgame here is.

>>57261540
Wait, I thought that we used it to commit crimes.

>>57261633
We live in a simulation, anon. Gold and silver are also ones and zeros with no intrinsic value.

Buy spot btc, send it to your ordinals wallet, mint some CL88, inscribe your dick.jpg to the blockchain and tell those bankers to go fuck themselves

>>57262117
Boomerguard doesn't allow leveraged/inverse ETFs either, banning BTC ETFs is on brand

Vanguard is the most trusted rock solid brokerage in the history of America
It’s highly bearish for the future of bitcoin if they choose not to offer it

>>57262606
See: >>57262547

>>57261501
They are pulling this fud to continue stacking, they want their own ETF now.

>>57261633
What's the intrinsic dollar value of an ounce of gold?

>>57262678

This 99.9999 percent

Why are they banning the ETF? I don't get it

So that's why it didn't blew up like we expected, a bunch of boomers who doesn't understand crypto or or intentionally continue to maintain the ((old)) financial system are fucking us up

Schizos on Beoble were right, they are organizing to destroy crypto

>>57262715
Vanguard doesn’t allow leveraged/inverse ETFs in the first place, on brand for them.

The true valuation of bitcoin lies in its decentralised nature, rendereing etfs unnecessary.

>>57261555

Just open up another brokerage account than.

>>57261645
no it's beanie babies meets terrorism meets money laundering meets environmental destruction!

>>57261501
what the fuck is going on here lol

>>57261540
Based.
Crypto as a whole is one massive ponzi scheme after the other whoever genuinely thinks this shit offers any intrinsic value is coping hard.

>>57262829
>They are organizing to destroy crypto
Woah did that thought take you and your buddies a few hours to brew in your heads huh

>>57261540
did you buy at 25000 at least bro?

>>57261555
>from me
Thoughts and prayers to your dad. Hope he actually sees through the bullshit unlike his retard of a son.

>>57261998
drinking water is legal?

>>57262829
around jews, you lose so it's not too surprising to see this shit

>>57262117
the real bullish sign has always been the BTC halving this whole ETF psyop has always been bullshit to me

>>57262847
No, the true value of BTC lies in it's fixed supply and transparent ledger, decentralization merely guarantees these properties

>>57262907
Who cares? just inscribe dick.jpg on bitcoin and mint some cl88
Fuck etf

>>57262904
His retard of a son saw through it well enough to make a very good living of just doing this.

>>57262266
sounds like a plan to me

>>57262829
That's been the case since 2008.

>>57262117
Dumping the price so they can load up btc before the halvening and making their own etf. I'm confused though necause i thought vanguard was one of the 11 approved yesterday

>>57261540
>not a single Buttcoin critic cited in the SEC ETF decision
you faggots are irrelevant even within your niche

>>57261540
Say bitcoin is cool...say it Say it SAY IT you MOFO

So vanguard changed their ticker to HFSP? what the fuck does that even mean?

The etfs that launced are already down 5-10% kek. Just look up the ticker they are already losing customers their money. This is not going to end well for those investing in these etfs when buttcoin goes back to $10k

>>57261501
So they're willingly alienating their customers and eventually lose customers when they offer an inferior product. Once they lose money from people withdrawing funds they will quietly allow BTC ETF on their platform.

>>57261540
you lost lol

>>57261540
Are you mentally deficient. I use it to buy shit all the time.

>>57261633
>Gold and silver both have intrinsic value
Name 5 intrinsic values. Go.

>>57263663
1. Shiny
2. Forever
3. Electricity
4. Hard
5. Ping

>>57263747
Ok, so nothing. Concession accepted.

>>57261555
i hope he forgives you for losing all his retirement over the next years anon
rip

>>57263757
>shiny
>nothing
Kek, go outside sometime

>ETF approved
>Could not load up on enough BTC because of uncertainty
>Ban purchase of BTC ETF from competitors
>Load up on BTC during several weeks
>Publish in-house ETF, let customers buy it
>Use customers' money to buy more BTC
>Thanks for playing chud

>>57263747
See: >>57261864

Functional demand is antithetical to Money, indeed, Au dominance over Ag is in no small part due to the greater functional demand for Ag, likewise the poor performance of Pt compared to Au is a textbook example on why high functional demand is detrimental to a Money

>>57262829
last bullrun was pricing this in, now it goes to 0

>>57261647
If boomers had enough brain cells to understand what you just wrote, they’d be fuming!

>>57261540
>ponzi scheme

>>57261571
Banks have the right to restrict how funds are spent. If you don’t like it, you change banks.

That’s the whole point of crypto. Self sovereignty. No one to tell you what you can and can’t do with your digital assets.

>>57261653
Still would

>>57264357
thx for the pic

>>57261645
2.0 and you just lost all your money

>>57261653
>irrelevant whackjob roastie
She's doing an incredible job of promoting and mainstreaming BTC.

>>57261596
I bet she was a total slut back in her college days

>>57261540
we are full. you can't get in at 10k anymore, bobo.

>>57261540
.

>>57263378
they are a spot BTC etf, why would I have to look up their individual tickers anon

>>57261864
>>57264357
You absolute retard. Gold and silver are literal useful elements used in industry. Bitcoin is nothing but speculative digital tulips
Henry Ford's energy based currency was a better concept

>>57261647
That's actually fascinating, and I appreciate you writing this.
Now I want to read books about financial theory.

>>57266965
Illiterate or just retarded?

Platinum perfectly illustrates the detrimental nature of functional demand on a money, while it's physical properties make it a strong money on paper, it's high functional demand renders it unusable as price becomes dominated by functional demand, not Store of Value demand. Gold is the best natural money precisely because it has little functional demand, BTC improves on this by having no functional use outside of Money.
>energy based money
Bitcoin.

>>57267019
>>energy based money
>Bitcoin.
Illiterate or just retarded?

>>57261501
no one cares about these retarded fiat niggers kek

>>57261633
dollars have no intrinsic value

>>57267049
they do have an intrinsic violence that btc will never match...

>>57267030
>arguments: none
Sad. Think for one single second and ponder on HOW money can hold value, how gold can hold value, you will quickly see that it can't be functional demand as the functional demand for gold is microscope, almost all gold merely sits in a vault or a safe or a jewelry box being gold, if all Store of Value demand for gold disappeared overnight gold would trade for a few hundred dollars an ounce at best. No, what allows gold to serve this economic function is that it is scarce, it is comparatively easy to authenticate, and it is inert. That is, it satisfies the demand for a Store of Value, and it's worth is a product of this demand. But these properties are not unique to gold, bitcoin satisfies these better, it is fixed in supply, it is trivial to authenticate, it is indestructible, AND it can be transferred trustlessly, AND it has no holding cost!

>>57261633
Imagine living somewhere that electrical failure is a reasonable concern lmao ranjeet stop

>>57267169
The military is extrinsic to the USD, and the USD is currency (transactional media), not money (store of value)

>>57261501
It's all pageantry. Do you honestly think the upper-eschelon of Blackrock or the SEC had no idea what the positions of the execs at ML and Vanguard were? Of course they knew. The only question is what do they intend by this? To force a panic sell, so they can slurp the bottom? To delay the bullrun until [insert event] is over? I don't know their motives, but I can easily infer this is mere performance.

>>57261516
Lol. You've reminded me of an H.L. Mencken quote. Referring to American politics, he called it a "colossal battle to the death between Tweedledum and Tweedledee."

>>57267213
That's a lot of places. When populations have to concern themselves with basic necessities for most of the time, infrastructure comes slowly.

>>57261645
Tulip Mania never happened and the original story of it lasted for one cycle and that single cycle did not last as long as Bitcoin has. Stay poor.

>>57267433
literally no one even reads wikipedia-tier shit on the tulip mania. it was nothing like they imagine it.

>>57267216

>The military is extrinsic to the USD

Without one you don't get the other.
More than 65 countries peg their currencies to the U.S. dollar. I'm not arguing that its a good SoV, just that it IS a SoV simply because of the threat of violence.

BTC is a burnt out light bulb that's sole value is the principle that somebody had to fork over $ to pay the utility bill to burn it out.

>>57267228
Don't know about ML, but this is normal for vanguard, they don't allow leveraged or inverse ETFs either, they don't allow stuff that's not boglepilled
>>57267468
USD has lost 98% of it's value over the last 50 years, it's currency not SoV, period. USD has value because the US economy is the largest economy in the world and there is demand to transact with it, but it's value is currency, not store of value.
>BTC is a burnt out light bulb that's sole value is the principle that somebody had to fork over $ to pay the utility bill to burn it out.
No. Again, SoV derives it's worth from demand for SoV. Bitcoin's energy consume bolsters it's network effect, as a clone will won't have that, and network effect is huge in a money.

>>57267169
INB4 maxipad PMC

>>57261540
very likely at this point. that's a huge red flag when BlackRock is the 2nd highest shareholder of Vanguard, the highest being Vanguard themselves. BlackRock has been very quiet about this ETF lately as well, although the supposed leaks pointed towards them as one of the biggest institutions who had a meeting with the SEC. we're literally watching a scripted reality show at this point and I have a feeling it will end in a pump and dump ponzi. at least that faggot michael saylor will likely keep buying to support /biz/ lol

>>57261501
Aren’t these ETFs scams like GLD and SLV anyway?

>>57261501
Dont ever allow them in. Have them go into a death spiral while other institutions adopt and move on. Leaving them in the duat to seethe on their decision makings

>>57261501
Bad goy, no btc for you

>>57261900
Checked again. Yeah they're fucking retarded. Before I closed my account, the advisor phoned me and tried persuading me not to go. I told her I was just consolidating my assets in my other account at Fidelity and didn't mention anything about my actual investments. She then went on an unprompted rant about how Bitcoin was inherently worthless. Then after that I heard she called my brother and she did the same thing with him kek. Merrill Lynch is unhinged desu, Bitcoin lives rent free in their heads for some inexplicable reason. Desu I probably wouldn't have closed my account with them if they hadn't also underperformed an S&P500 index fund in 2020, but that was the last straw for me. That they still refuse to consider crypto 3 years later is just confirmation for me that they're ngmi.

>>57261540
so? Eat grass, nigger

In the end, stay bitcoinery, stay onchain and say fuck you to these bankers

>>57263747
>>57263899
These are EXTRINSIC, retards.

> buy $100 of BTC
> have $85 of BTC in wallet
do you know understand know why larry fink was rubbing his hands

>We must protect the US dollar
>We must protect the US dollar
>We must protect the US dollar

>>57261633
>I want to see bitcucks try to pay for something with a fantasy meme currency when the electricity goes out
shut the fuck up wagie

>>57261501
>>57261501
Truth what they really want to say is
>Please, freeze the etfs to give us time to make our own!
SC this.

>>57261501
Black rock does and they don't lose

>>57261647
>Gold is the best natural money precisely because it has little functional demand
Wrong. We'd be using Gold in a lot more shit if it wasn't so rare. It's one of the most useful and functional metals. Way easier to work with than most other metals we use.

>>57261771
>MERILL LYNCH JOINS VANGUARD IN THEIR DECISION TO BUY BITCOIN A LITTLE CHEAPER BY MANIPULATING THE MARKET

>>57261872
I mean he's not stupid obviously. BTC is a gamble and there are quite a few ways to lose it even if you manage to double it.

>>57261501
Its inevtiable that old world counting houses will resent blackrock for its leading role in performing the great reset and abandoning the old system in favor of the beast system. Those left holding the now worthless USD bags will seethe the loudest.>>57261501

>>57261501
Anybody remember when BoA was going to use XRP? Ripple fags btfo.

>people who were dumb enough to trust their money with Merrill Lynch (bank of america) won't be able to participate in teh ETF

not surprised

>>57261501
Land of the free.

OHHHH SAAAY CAN YOU SEEE

>>57261584
>free
nothing is free

>>57269656
>if it were worthless we'd use it for lots of stuff!
You think $2k/oz is a product of the demand it would have at $10/lb? There's little functional demand at $2k/oz so clearly the price can not be a product of this non-existent demand

>>57262062
2016 to 2023 was a huge bull run retard. also why are you posting a multi year chart thing to explain an off chance flavor of the month nothing burger event.

>>57261540
Fucking BASED BOOMERS. They just can't stop winning, fuck BUTTCORN.

>>57261623
can run a pruned node with only 15 gb or so