/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>56680537
There are no jobs sir

>>56680537
https://youtu.be/M-BFxL16JrQ?si=amFsmzk5s6Qlw2fS

you'd earn double that pushing trolleys around coles carpark in my country. (and you'd still be living a poverty level existence)

>>56680537
I'm a cook with 9 years experience. I earn 24€/h. 145h/month. Western Europe. I miss the days when I could work 200h a month but everything is super regulated now and you can work this much anymore.

>>56680537
https://youtu.be/CiyjDD-qpk0?si=AGDAtbGJn0OzJhze

>Catches a bullet for you

>>56680537
>italy
>doesnt work in the tourism industry to service rich chinks and yanks
all your country is good for is some carnival attraction of how life used to be.
Meloni will luckily import niggers to keep the wages down.

There's no way that can be true. I lived in Italy during Covid and things were more expensive than in Scandinavia. There's absolutely no way you can earn so little, m8. A newly graduate here earns 3500+€/month.
Is Italy really that bad?

>>56680668
Yes.
There's no way out if you don't emigrate, there's no way into high pay if you don't scam or have ties into money.
There's no upwards mobility, boomers are greedy and money doesn't go to anyone but the few that own a business.

It's no place to build oneself up.

A salary above 1800 a month is a rarity

>>56680693
>A salary above 1800 a month is a rarity
Fuckin hell. I am starting to understand why Italians and Greeks live with their families the longest (sometimes well into 30s). How do you "make it" with such a pathetic salary?

Well, you got France, Germany, Austria, and Switzerland right there next to you and those countries appreciate engineers far more. If you have a master's, you should not settle for less than 3500€/month in my opinion. Even a plumber makes that much here.

>>56680668
You are not supposed to make it
you are supposed to work for a salary less that the cost of living and be grateful for it, so you company (usually a small sized one still owened by the founder or the son of the founder or someone family related to it) can keep afloat because productivity hasn't improved in 20 years
Both bosses and boomers are stuck at 30 years ago when you could do something with that few money and they expect you to show enthusiasm for such big offers
Also family are hell and they want you to stay as close as possible to them.I told my parents that I might move to Germany for a better payed job thanks to some connections and they said "why do you even want to move from here now that you have such an offer" and then my mother started crying because we wouldn't be able to spend christmas togheter
fucking hell

>>56680769
It's simply boomers, they occupy positions of wealth and don't allow anyone else to make any money.

Businesses netting more than a million buck with 10 employees being squeamish and crying in pain about giving a raise from 1200 a month to their wagies.

It's really a disgusting situation and i want to see this country burn

>>56680907
Paid*

Also,
>why do you even want to move from here now that you have such an offer"
Do your boomer parents even understand that 22k a year is a fucking joke?

>>56680943
My parents thanksfully do and allow me to neet, they know the system is fucked.
I'm all in on crypto with my savings from not going anywhere and not doing anything, my only chance to get out is gambling it all.

>>56680907
Crazy how different it is here. My family is exuberant over me having a job in a real country that would pay me good money. "You are young and have skills, so go out and make a name for yourself.". Paraphrasing but that's what they say.
If you wanna make it, financially speaking, you need a lot of money nowadays. And engineers aren't really paid all that well, especially considering we have these 50-60% tax rates in many eurocountries. That plus the housing market is insane.
If you are young and are capable of moving, why not? You gain some valuable experience and it looks good on your resume and you get more money... literally win win win. You can always fly back for Christmas to see your family. Literally takes an hour by flight.

When someone tells me to be grateful to have "such a good salary"... that really boils my blood on the inside. But it doesn't matter, you can't explain it to these old farts. They have a secured wealth in the form of a house and/or a company so they don't care. Their wealth has appreciated so damn much over the course of these last few years that we are left in the dust.

I have long given up on my dream of ever buying a nice house without a filthy loan. I would have to save until I am 70+.

>>56680967
>50-60% tax rates

>>56680769
You won't get 3500 in either germany or austria. 2500 if you're lucky. Factoring in cost of life and everything it isn't much different than 1800 in Italy. And i talk from first hand experience in both countries.

>>56680907
it is not really about salary tho its about the amount absolute you can save every month
compare your low cost of living in italy by sharing a house with your family compared to paying for everything in germany
germany is absolutely no promised land, the wagies there are also trapped in the never getting ahead cycle

>>56680537
I just applied for a job at astrazeneca's verona site paying 95k, I think euros idk, it's a paycut over my last salary but cost of living in verona vs London makes up for it.
I don't speak a word of spaghetti, other than a few Neapolitan curses I learned from my girlfriend, but they didn't mention italian fluency on the job ad. Just English.

You chose the wrong industry. Biotech is where all the government funnymoney is being funnelled these days, OP.

>>56681041
Lol I was born there.
Right choice, Verona is a beautiful city if you're white.

You ARE white, are you?

>>56681041
I live in Bassano
Basically industrial production is all there is aside from a few big companies

>>56681041
95k a year, around 8k a month.
You'd live like a fucking king among plebs.

With that kind of money you can invest and fuckoff forever from work in a year if you invest correctly

>>56680537
unironically move to Australia for a year or so, get on FIFO and you will make some serious money. That's what I did / am doing as we speak.

>>56681084
It's very likely before taxes. so it will be hal of that after them. Still quite a lot.

>>56681076
Primo lavoro?
1800 a Bassano non sono male dai.

>>56681065
Celtic as fuck. I'm ginger.

>>56681084
That's the plan. I already have 7figures from selling stocks in a startup I worked at for the past 8 years.
I'm gonna live off ~25k/year and invest the rest. I just wish I had that sort of expendable income over the bearmarket.

>>56681155
Then you'll have no problem fitting in

>>56681163
95k before taxes will be slightly more than 4k a month, plus a 4k 13th instalment in december.
You can easily save 2k a month as long as you don't rent in the city proper.

>>56681189
>plus a 4k 13th instalment in december.
Wops get 13 paydays a year? Incredible!

>>56681214
Some sectors even have 14 paydays.

>>56680668
That's third world countries for you. Everything is expensive but you earn nothing. Only thing that's cheap is rent and food, so all you can do is survive, but neve really live.

>>56681163
With 7 figures i wonder why you even bother working in Italy at all, since you can just live off of dividends and invest when you spot opportunity

>>56681426
Anything you'd make investing in a bull market with even 6 figures, would massively overshadow anything you'd make by working even all your life at those wages

>>56681426
I live in London, anon.
Why oh why would I ever consider moving to a place of outstanding beauty like Verona? Unimaginable.

If your question was more around "Why work at all", I enjoy my profession. If I could start my own business that has access to >$5M pieces of kit, I would - but I'm not so outrageously rich. The more expensive the scientific kit, the more fun it is to play with.

could I have driven out if I had gone farther west here?

>>56680537
I make 1400€ a month after taxes in poortugal as a developer. I'm trying to transition to web3/blockchain so I can double or triple my salary

>>56681596
>web3/blockchain
That market is oversaturated by cheap pajeets and not-so-cheap ukranians.

C/C++ devs can still make good money, but jobs are scarce in EUland.

machine learning still the king, but even that is getting buttfucked

>>56680537
job market is a bitch, imagine having to beg for a slightly decent salary, no one can specialize in anything because they are so busy not starving, I barely have time to think about anything but either working or keeping my $HUSBANT bags fat

>>56680668
PIGS

Portugal Italy greece and spain. It's taught in every social studies class that discusses europe. Poverty is bad there.

I am lucky as fuck my grandfather took a loan 50 years ago in something he had no clue about and managed to open an industrial business. I have an outrages wage for my poverty shithole due my family owning the company and can work as a true engineer and not a paper pusher. To be honest boomers had it so easy 50 years ago that is not even funny. Imagine going to a bank nowadays with basically 0 liquidity and asking them to finance you money to buy industrial land and machinery.

I make 250 net a day (euros) and I work like 1 hour a day
>from home

>>56682091
>Poverty is bad there.
The funny thing is that boomers in Italy and Spain are unironically wealthier than Germans or Austrians and home ownership here is north of 85%
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_wealth_per_adult
The south of Europe only sucks if you are young and you have no inheritable wealth, but when Germans pay bail outs to the south of Europe they are basically bailing out some boomer pensioners that dwarf their levels of wealth. Some people wouldn't believe the life style and wealth of boomers and public workers in the South of Europe

>>56682356
Also northcucks should know that most debt that they will inherit from southron retards like Spaniards or Italians, is money that mostly went to finance boomers continous wealth increases in the form of pensions, pre retirements at 45 years old, promoting dead and useless languagues like scatalan, public wages that are twice as large as private sector wages and massive wages for workers in former monopolies like telecom companies or energy companies. In Spain (my cunt) the average pension is 80% of the median wage (and growing), the average wagie in public TVs that nobody watches are north of 150k Euros (the average wage outside of Madrid is literally the minimum wage) a year and public workers on average earn twice the average wage while working 20 hours a week (in summer they work from 10 to 13 for example) and their performance only being evaluated on age not in performance (they can't be fire lol). I just wish this joke of a country collapses soon and all this shitty corrupt system and its beneficiaries eat a big fat piece of shit

>>56682476
Italians are making what kind of music these days?

>>56680668
Yes it is, average poorfag salary is less than 15k/year.

>>56682476
Also mind you that taxes in the South of Europe for income are absurdly high. For example to earn 2400 euros a month (my current wage) the company has to pay around 5000 euros in taxes (income and social security payments), so wages here wouldn't even be bad if we didn't have to pay the boomer party which eats 40% of our goverment's budget in pensions alone and another 40% on wages of public workers. If you trimmed those expenses by 30% (completly doable) most wages here wouldn't be that different from those of the rest of Europe, simply put the fiscal burden on work is retardly high and most people can't make it if they decide to pay taxes

>>56680537
not worth working in the third world

>>56680907
this
im a literal MIT grad in math / comp sci and I can't even get an entry level job interview right now for software engineering positions (got laid off from my first job)
the real problem is that I only have 1 year of experience....
keep being told if i had 4-5 years they'd love to have me
like fuck you cunts, pay me less.
i dont care at this point. I just need *a* job

>>56681015
minimum wage alone is 2000€ in Germany

>>56680537
l'Italia ha i politici e i sindacalisti meglio pagati in EU.
E operai, impiegati peggio pagati in Europa.
Gli immigrati che arrivano domani hanno diritto a tutto.
Gli italiani invece devono pagare le tasse per mantenere, politici, sindacalisti, immigrati e giornalisti.

>>56683675
In Italy 70% of salaries is under salaries East Europe

Make 20bucks an hour working in a gym. I enjoy it, I don’t work for money per se, more as something to do. Invest most of it in crypto for the big gains

>>56682519
Yeah.
50% tax 50% pay.
But football players pay only 100,000$ tax for 1 million euro salaries.
This is my country....shitaly.

>be Italian
>work at menial job
>live with family and eat a da mama spaghetti
Why would you do anything different?

>>56681596
1430€ net here in Estonia.
Doing some extra stuff during the weekends that adds 600-800€ per month. fml

I grew up in shitaly but moved away 13 years ago, when youth unemployment was hitting 40% I imagine nothing at all has changed there. The entire time I was there there was a general feeling of hopelessness, like everyone had been dealt certain cards 2 generations before and you were forced to play them. You had rich parents or an auntie that could get you in some bullshit department you were going to have a comfy life but nobody actually "made it".

Everything is cash, or hidden economy and everyone is out to try and scam the system that is also trying to scam you (and succeeding better at it). The result was also that quality of life was quite good, because nobody did any real work. Coffee & cornetto 1.5 euros, pizza 5euros, beers 3euros. Easy to meet up and chill with people.

I'm a different type of shithole now, but at least there is economic mobility

>>56680551
>si

Malta is terrible because supermarkets here are far more expensive than in mainland Europe due to everything needing to be shipped in. I earn a salary from Ireland so I'm grand but people suffer here considerably. 60hrs a week at 5/hr is fucking shit

>>56680537
>we'll treat you right
means
>we'll provide the holidays and such that we are required to give by law

>>56681041
with 95k euro year you will live like a king in Verona. It's a high pay probably you work in some niche field and have phd or heavy skills