/biz/ - Business & Finance

same problem here. homes are 300-500k in a relatively poor county in FL. absolutely nobody will take a 30 year mortgage at this interest rate.

>>55983345
No one. But also no one is selling for the same reason. Eventually fed will capitulate because the government literelly cannot finance its debt and we will see negative rates. At this point blackrock will buy everything. I mean everything.

>>55983345
$300k dual income households are very common. $600k all cash purchases with waived contingencies and no inspection are also very common. $400k minimum down payment is again VERY COMMON. housing will never crash. housing is not overvalued. everyone around you is incredibly rich -- well, they're not even rich because everyone has this sort of money and so this isn't an example of "having an inordinate amount of money," it's just an example of middle class commonness. no, i don't care about statistics which show household income percentiles. this sort of money is COMMONPLACE and EVERYONE has bare minimum mid 6 figures liquid with 5 figures a month post-tax cash flow. housecoin to the moon, apes.

>>55983378
Exactly. The median income earner could never afford the median home. That's never how it worked. The bottom 30% are basically permanent wagie, serf, NPC, permanent renter underclass, useless eaters that were never going to buy a house. So really you need to be at about the 70th percentile income to buy the 50th percentile house, which is the way it's always been.

>>55983418
it's more like 85th percentile these days, at least in my area of the country (suburbs of philly.)

>>55983345
Houses in my neighborhood are still selling for 50k-150k over asking within 24 hours of listing.
I actually get cold calls from realtors with clients asking if I’ll sell my home every week.

Lol keep dreaming, around where I live houses don’t last two weeks in the market and they are all only affordable for the top 10% of earners around here, doesn’t matter, lots are in cash, those baby boomers have lots of savings to use up

>>55983372
Lol.
Imagine Still believing this.

>>55983481
Here it’s Chinese and Indians buying all the houses. The chinks rent them out, the Pajeets live in them, so I prefer Raj over Chang at the moment.

>>55983481
Yup and as they die the impoverished zoomers sharing it among their siblings will sell them for a pittance to pay rent.

>>55983493
Let me guess, Canadian?

If you didn't own a home prior to Jan 1, 2021, you missed out on the biggest wealth transfer in history and are now priced out forever. Basically your entire financial future is determined by whether or not you owned residential real estate before that date or not.

>>55983378
>$300k dual income households are very common
imagine believing this

>>55983372
yeah dude the fed will capitulate before retail homeowners thats totally how this works. debts gonna stop at 33 trillion dollars for sure.

>>55983418

>The bottom 30% are NPCs
So, rich people can't be NPCs now? Okay... You people have lost the plot.

>>55983345
you'd be surprised, my parents neighbours sold their House for 1MM and the buyers are 30-32 y.o couple working regular jobs. either they'll pay for it until they die or had inherited money. Thing is normies are prepared to pay for a house their entire lives.

>>55983562
yeah same, my parents bought their house for 400k in 2013, a house near them sold for over 1MM last month to a couple in their 30s.

>>55983345
The only one that will have enough money for that is Niggerrock

>>55983475
>>55983481
wow, your markets must be booming. in my area 25% of the homes have been on the market for over 6 months

>>55983446
>>55983418
to put this another way, you basically need to be dual income white collar couple pulling down $90k each (realistically $130k male and $50k female considering how worthless women are) to barely afford a 1700 square foot plywood box that a high school drop bought on 30 hour a week janitorial income back in 1994.

>>55983475
pro tip, they don't have a client, they're prospecting for clients, in this case you.

>>55983345
Old widowed women with life insurance payouts paying all cash. What do you mean they can't sustain the entire real estate market???

>>55983612
i'm not a real estate expert but it looks like desirable locations have insufficient inventory and non-desirable locations have a shit ton. everyone thinks their property is worth something but at the end of the day location is the only thing that matters.

>>55983616
>afford a 1700 square foot plywood box that a high school drop bought on 30 hour a week janitorial income back in 1994
That's a myth. As I said, the bottom 30% of people are a permanent renter, useless eater, serf, NPC class. That high school dropout janitor would've been in that bottom 30% underclass in 1994 and wouldn't have bought. Like I said, it's always been like this. The bottom 30% don't buy houses, so you are really only competing with the top 70% to buy a house. Meaning You need a 70th percentile income to buy a 50th percentile house. The bottom 30% largely don't live in detached SFR houses, they live in trailers, mutlifamily, or government subsidized housing. The 50th percentile earner has never been able to afford the 50th percentile detached SFR house.

There are brand new apartment buildings being built in my city going anywhere between 580000and 1100000 euros.
Average wage in this country is 850 euros per month. Over 50% of households make less than 750 before taxes. I make 1200 and it puts me on the 90th percentile of income.
Housing right now is just investors buying and selling to each other in a greater fool theory seeing who can is left holding the bag.
This is beyond a bubble. There is no way people in their 30s with average incomes in the USA can pay for a mortgage of a million plus interest.

>>55983684
That janitor in the 90s would have had a really nice income because it is a union job and it had really nice benefits. All that has been eroded since then.
Homes didn’t cost that much in the early 90s either.
Zoning was less restrictive, supply existed and demand didn’t outstrip it. Not to mention interest rates were much higher back then.

>>55983704
>That janitor in the 90s would have had a really nice income because it is a union job and it had really nice benefits. All that has been eroded since then.
Maybe he could've afforded that in his 40s or 50s. But the thing with most blue collar union jobs is that it takes at least a decade before you start making decent money. The myth of the 25 year old high school dropout janitor buying the median house in 1994 is just that, a myth.

>>55983642
Most of America is single family homes, that's why the "opinion" online is IT WONT GO DOWN, because not only are there a lot of them, these people have invested significant portions of their life into this cardboard crapbox (and they know it), and the only thing propping up their confidence in this decision was the fact that it would appreciate in value.

If the house has the potential to decrease in value, then across America, millions of people will feel like morons (they are) and as an American I'll tell you, an Americans biggest fear isn't any of the things you think it is, the biggest fear of an American is being considered a moron among your peers. Because most people in America self identify that they are not very smart, but that if they fall on top of good decisions, then they can take these Ws as their own.

TLDR Americans have a very hard time taking Ls that can be noticed by your peers, to the point that many would kill themselves over something like their home value going down

>>55983727
Dude… it’s not a myth. I don’t know what your past is or how old you are. But I’ve been around enough people in the us and Europe to know it is true. Down payments were always required but housing prices were so low compared to know that your down payment would have been 5000. My parents down payment in 1998 was less than 3000 euros. An American janitor in 94 would have essentially be making double of what he makes today (in real spending terms), he was set. And could have easily bought a house by 25, more than likely by 25 he had the house, a wife and kids.

>>55983684
it's amusing how you insist that i'm wrong but you don't seem to understand how percentiles work. bottom 30% have never bought property, that's correct. the "right side" of that 30% on an income distribution graph isn't 70th percentile -- it's the 31st percentile and above.

housing is extremely unaffordable now, some redditnigger was kind enough to do this analysis. https://www.reddit.com/r/Economics/comments/15tqz07/us_housing_affordability_hits_worst_point_in/jwli589/

>>55983769
Yeah my dad bought a 5 bedroom house for 70k in 1988 on a security guard wage even with the 10% interest rates for 30 year loan. It was piece of cake.

>>55983776
US housing is still dirt cheap compared to its anglosphere peers. It has a long way up to go before we're anywhere near a Canada/UK/Australia/New Zealand situation. The answer is to buy now, because it will likely only get worse in the future. You can't time the property market.

>>55983797
my dad bought a double wide and put it on a foundation on 10 acres of land in the early 90s. he was a mechanical maintenance worker in a factory (and still is) and my mom was a stay at home mom at the time. even with 25 years of pay raises and a few promotions, and my mom now working full time, i doubt they could afford to buy their house today.

>>55983805
All those other countries interfere and micromanage their markets too much though so I'm not so sure America will end up like them. They're basically crippling themselves like the Soviets in slow motion.

>>55983378
>Very common

Jarvis pull up income statistics for American households.

>>55983820
Yes, but not even they have 30 year fixed rate mortgages. Virtually every house in America is either owned outright or has a mortgage less than 4%. Probably less than 10% of homes are owned with mortgages greater than 4%, while the other countries usually have fixed rates for only 5 years. So things can get much, much, much worse here in America due to the lack of supply coming to market due to mortgage rate lock effect. Essentially the Fed monetized America's housing wealth by keeping mortgage rates artificially low for too long. Multi-trillion transfer of wealth FROM the Fed balance sheet TO homeowners.

>>55983727
Ok you are either a Zoomer or baiting. Here’s a simple example to show you are wrong; quintessential 90s sitcoms (Married With Children, Home Improvement, The Simpsons etc…) all center around single income working class families with multiple dependents and they all had houses. Yes it was television, but the point is Al Bundy supporting his wife and kids in a SFR as a shoe salesman was perceived as NORMAL.

>>55983824
pulling up the statistics isnt valid because he said he doesn't care about the statistics

>>55983926
you can't reason with these people.
>I-IT NEVER HAPPENED!!!

>>55983926
Yes, and everyone in the 1950s lived the "Leave it to Beaver" lifestyle like the Cleaver family.

While there is likely some element of truth, the houses and lifestyles in the sitcoms are far elevated compared to what was actually normal or average, because nobody wants to watch a TV show about poorfags living in a 3/1 rambler-style home eating Kraft Mac & Cheese (which is how the lower middle class actually lives).

>>55983974
honestly a 3/1 rambler house would be an upgrade for a lot of people on this board lmao

>>55983974
>While there is likely some element of truth

I’m sure that’s the best I’m going get out of you. Go ask your dad if he remembers whether men with wagie-tier owned houses while supporting a homemaker wife and three kids.

>>55983974
>poorfags living in a 3/1 rambler-style home
yeah these homes now require an 80th percentile household income to afford. i should know, i live near one of the first "planned communities" in the country -- levittown, pa.

they sold these homes for about $8k in mid 1950s dollars. adjusted for inflation that is about $100k in 2023 dollars. today these same houses are $350-400k with $5-7k/year property taxes -- the same houses, as in they are original levittown construction homes still standing from the mid 1950s.

>>55983970
You fell for broadcast TV PROPOGANDA, which is what it is. Don't forget, broadcast TV is literally licensed by the FCC, so of course the broadcast TV stations had to air TV shows showing the "American dream." The average lower middle class lifestyle is far more mediocre than what was shown in 1950s propaganda posters and 1990s sitcoms. People actually lived in 1200 sq ft, 3 bed, 1 bath rambler homes (usually with mom having a part time job), rather than the 2000 square foot 4 bed, 2 bath colonial homes (with a single breadwinner) shown in the 1990s sitcoms.

>>55984030
see >>55984027 dipshit.

>>55984016
>whether men with wagie-tier owned houses while supporting a homemaker wife and three kids
Fine. Yes they did. Except they owned 1200 square foot 3/1 ramblers in working class towns, instead of 2000 square foot 4/2 colonials in middle class towns shown in the sitcoms.

>>55984049
Cool thank you. I also agree that you are correct the television homes are exaggerated, but the bottom line is homeownership supported on a single income wagie job was normal until America became fake and gay after 9/11.

>>55983996
How old are you? You’re literally attempting to deny reality. The tv show was just an example of what passed for immersive reality then. Do you have a hard time understanding that the 50s and 60s were a fucking golden age in the USA?
People bought cars, brand new and paid them off within the payment schedule in two years. They’d put in a dollar or two of gas in those tanks and it would get them half a tank.
There was a housing building boom, most everyone was buying a home in their 20s and most women were housewives who also had their own car. This isn’t tv show this was reality in the USA in the 50s.
Was it for everyone? Of course not. There were people in central ky living as share croppers at the same time barely able to heat up their home, which they owned. But then social mobility kicked in even in poor places like central and eastern ky and those people bought better newer homes, bought cars and lived high on the hog in the 60s.
None of this is fiction this is reality. By age 25 most men had a home, a wife and maybe a kid if not two. That was the reality. And I’ll add this, that was the reality if you were white. If you were black, Mexican or whatever story was different but even in other states without deed restrictions of that sort there were well to do blacks. And some of them, not in the same proportion as whites, owned their own home. It’s like you’re trying to gaslight everyone here about a past we actually have some connection and contact with. You’re either not even 18 or you’re desperately trying to convince yourself none of is true and it must be some personal moral failing that you have not achieved this. The system is broken simple as that.
The crazy thing is that in the 80s people thought everything was going to hell, little would they be able to understand how their time of “downward spiral” into unemployment and increasing unaffordable standards of living would be seen as a fucking golden time thirty years later.

>>55984035
I truly don't think you understand the conditions that most people faced in the world back then.
You know how you go through the ghetto, and see a bunch of dilapidated residential structures
That's how most people lived, with families, usually consisting of 7-9 children. 90% white even. That was the middle class.
It was still completely normal for the lower class to live with cement or partially dirt/gravel floors. In the 50s poor people in America absolutely lived in third world tier squalor. And only the upper ends of the middle class made it to the brand new "suburb".
Open a history book sometime, get some perspective on the world. Very few people lived "that life" in the 50s, and those who did were hard working, nose to the grindstone individuals.
You are wrong, the guy you are saying is wrong, is correct. The media you see was PROPAGANDA enticing the lower ends of society to work harder. The same way you get today's media slamming mansions and lambos in your face.

>>55984145
this is truly an endless series of copes and moving of goalposts.

>>55984109
You are missing the part where men had reason to work so hard to achieve things like that
Today what's the motivation for most men? To live alone?
Back then you had a great girl lined up who rode with you til the end, after you snatched her up, you went hard on your career to make it all happen.
The "golden age" in my opinion was largely brought on by the fact that many American men had a self driven reason to work harder. Once women began to stray away from the nuclear family, society went with it
Even you observe, it was not a golden age for everyone, I think you underestimate how much everyone was left behind

>>55984174
Go read my other posts I'm not some hoooomer I'm just fucking realistic
The 50s were a better time for men who wanted to work, sure fine
But to act like it was some magical age where any retard with a shovel could buy a home is nonsense. My grandfather was born in 1925, he was in his prime for the 50s, I've seen pictures and heard plenty of stories. He worked extensively to get into the suburbs as a glassmaker. My nana would tell stories about not seeing him for a few weeks at a time because he would sleep on the job site to wake up and get back at it
Not only are you not capable of doing that anymore because rules, but imagine telling a zoomer to work in a hot and sweaty glass factory for extra hours to own a home. Yeah right, lol, lmao even.

The golden age from 1948 - 1968, in the United States, a time of BOTH economic prosperity and relative social harmony, was a mere blip in our history.

Although, Neil Howe argues that that period was the First Turning. How argues we are in the Fourth Turning now, and should enter our next First Turning sometime around 2030 or so.

>>55984192
What the hell are you going on about? Women? And here I thought we were talking about housing and how people in the 50s and 60s had it better than most everyone today.
Yes some people were left behind. If you were black, catholic, jewish or literally anything that wasn’t a white protestant you didn’t qualify for a “free” mortgage and you were legally barred from buying a home in a good part of the country. You don’t seem to understand the density differences within the USA. Just like today most people lived in California or the east coast in places like Boston, New York, Philadelphia, Washington DC.
The rest of the country didn’t evolve as fast but you know what? Didn’t matter because the rest of the country had an industrial base of employment that paid well and they could afford to buy a piece of land and build a home. There used to be a lot of manufacturing in the USA, people made a living making shoes well into the 90s in places like Ohio, Kentucky, Indiana. There was mining jobs in Kentucky, Tennessee, West Virginia. There was a huge employment base in the entire country that made it very affordable for most people to own a home. But it’s not like it was a McMansion these were normal homes with two or three bedrooms. And less than 1600sq ft. There are always poor in every society but back then as a janitor you could own your home. And now you need to be in the top ten percent of income without a six digit down payment in order to buy. Do you not see the difference or are you trying to gaslight us into believing it was normal then as well?

>>55983345
> So my house is worth $600k but I was thinking... who's actually going to buy it?
People whose house is worth 500k and got a raise.
House prices have detached from wages.

>>55984396
Correct. We are no longer a country defined by how much income you make, but a country defined by how much assets you have.

>>55983495
Zoomers will never have that chance. Reverse mortgages and medical fees will take it all. The rest will be taken by Blackrock & crew.

>>55983805
>Australia
It's funny that almost every home owner is on an adjustable rate mortgage too and the media still shills that there isn't going to be a housing crash

>>55984145
>those who did were hard working, nose to the grindstone individuals.
Millennials are working harder than Boomers ever did.

>>55984261
Fourth Turning has been delayed due to the elites creating artificial pauses in the saeculum.

>>55983345
I'll buy it, OP.

>>55983824
Those statistics are largely dependent on neighborhood.

In my neighborhood in a mostly black city, the average household income is $200k. 5 miles south the average household income is like $60k.

On my street, there are a few young (under 40) homeowners making >$400k. Usually the wife is a lawyer or works in medicine and the husband is a programmer or a lawyer.