/biz/ - Business & Finance

this is a stocks and bonds board now, shitcoiner

>>55967951
Bitcoin's transparency is a strength. Without transparency, there will be no institutional adoption. Monero may have some functionality as a currency if you are a criminal, but it will never be a store of value for the reason above and because it is inflationary.

>>55967951
Same. I'm pretty sure it's a similar situation to the vax. All the facts are available but for the time being it's unfashionable and unprofitable to make the right choice. One day the tables will turn and the conformists who allow deceit and degeneracy to prosper will be exposed and poorer for it.

>>55967951
Your autism is a weakness. It forces you to see the entire world in black & white, to adopt an idealistic worldview that doesn't reflect reality, and to be immune to any evidence to the contrary.
It's something a lot of people on /biz/ suffer from, and they wind up poor.

>>55968057
Bitcoin is more inflationary than Monero until 2040 or something and the tail emission on Monero means the network will always have miners and Monero is ASIC-free so people can mine with a CPU.

Not to mention the inflation rate is limited to 0.6 Monero per block, which means over-time the inflation doesn't increase by total supply thus the inflation rate will peak and then start going lower.

>>55967951
Look the long term might make you right and to be honest monero is one of the greatest inventions ever made which is the fact that its a real swiss bank without all the bullshit that you see in swiss banks however the conditions for monero to win are conditions that will bitcoin bullish as well, except the fact that cbdcs will boost the popularity of xmr much more but basically what i am telling you is that bitcoin will not go away and monero will only keep improving but both will be used don't spect one day people to suddenly stop using bitcoin and use xmr

>>55968170
Well if we go full cashless society with CBDCs, any CBDCs that go into Bitcoin will be tracked and monitored easily.

But this wont happen with Monero.

While Bitcoin will remain "part of the systems" Monero maintain its cryptocurrency status.

>>55968170
>>55968207
Again the thing I question is, how exactly is the blackmarket going to function with CBDCs?

It can't. When cash is gone, Monero is going to be required for a multi-trillion dollar black market industry.

>Send XMR to address
Amazing how monero baggies have been fully tricked into doing the NSAs work for them.

>>55968215
it already has a backdoor.
why do you think they let the creators walk around as free men, while tornado cash people are in jail?

>>55968215
Monero will never be required for anything because privacy is only as good as your plausible deniability and Monero has none.
It's why you don't see any black market activity outside low-level drug dealers using Monero.

That doesn't even start to go into Monero's fundamentally flawed ring-signature model, the numerous shady vulnerabilities and defects left alone by the "developers" for as long as possible, and the clear and obvious statistical attacks that have been raging for years.

The Monero developers that are left, trying to fight these things, have all but given up and realize a full and complete rewrite, a relaunch of the entire network is the only thing that can save it.

>>55968222
The mental gymnastics to this is realization from Monero glowies is always amusing. Every other kind of privacy tool has been heavily restricted, attacked and shut down, but the one that relies on inexplicably weak statistical privacy is left alone.

And then they realize just how little XMR generates in fees a year, and the curtain pulls back.

>>55967951
>I'm an autist and I'm smarter than everyone else
The real logical explanation is that the value of bitcoin comes from its transparency. You are free to do whatever you want if you own the keys, but it's also visible to everyone.

>>55968250
>>55968222
>>55968221
Are you guys retarded?

XMR is banned everywhere, why would they ban something they have a backdoor in?

There is a reason why Bitcoin is allowed to be part of the system now, its because the governments realized they can actually monitor and control bitcoin, not the network, but they can control private keys through force, confiscate bitcoin from specific addresses, and do it all with the help of exchanges and data-matching software.

They ban Monero because they cant do this to Monero.

How the HELL can you project that shit onto Monero you fucking Bitcoin maxis, I will understand how you cope so badly

>>55968350
It's been "banned" from exchanges. Convenient when that reduces legitimate speculative activity on-chain that would otherwise add noise into their de-anonymization techniques.

There's nothing stopping them technologically or legally from sanctioning the entire network or forcing payment processors to drop Monero, but they only went after the use cases that make their techniques harder, to keep the honeypot alive. Combine that with useful idiots like yourself and you've neutered one of the largest "privacy" networks out there at a rounding error of an expense for any private or government agency.

>>55968057
is gold transparent?
> it's not a bug it's a feature
yeah it do be like that, we all know it

>>55968250
>And then they realize just how little XMR generates in fees a year, and the curtain pulls back.
XMR generates just as much fees as BTC when it was around the same price level...
You tards have 0 FUD against XMR that's crazy as fuck. I don't own even kk XMR, but this retards convo makes me want to buy now

>>55968414
Price has absolutely nothing to do with fees, Monero's fee and block model is broken and has the nice (convenient) effect of also completely undermining it's privacy too.

>FUD
Monero is an average alt that peaked permanently against Bitcoin in 2018. It's not relevant enough to "FUD", we're talking about how it isn't and has never been safe to use for people who have real privacy concerns. Of course all the baggies do is talk price because they're too low IQ to sustain any debate about its cryptography, after all that's why they're still using it.

>>55968432
>Of course all the baggies do is talk price because they're too low IQ to sustain any debate about its cryptography, after all that's why they're still using it.
lmao are you trolling?

>>55968397
>>55968397
>It's been "banned" from exchanges. Convenient when that reduces legitimate speculative activity on-chain that would otherwise add noise into their de-anonymization techniques.

Never have I seen such straw pulling cope

>>55967951
Monero is one of the few alts with actual utility. It serves a real people, in the real world, really. That's an amazing achievement when compared to the vaporware frauds of today (see: Chainlink)

The main issue is that its entire existence relies on Bitcoin's privacy model being unsatisfactory. I would argue in 99% of cases "send btc to address" works just the same. Yes, there have been cases of CEX's blacklisting coins but only under government pressure and those same CEX's have likely already banned Monero entirely - so what's really worse? The solutions today are crude and inconvenient mainly because nobody uses them, or needs to. But if blacklisting and audits become a serious concern nothing is stopping these technologies from maturing. Sure, having such features baked into the chain is nice but it's not necessary. Ethereum didn't have to change on the protocol level to make TornadoCash a successful privacy tool and neither does Bitcoin.

Also, while I won't go so far as to call Bitcoin's privacy model a "feature" compared to Monero's, it does come with some advantages. It's simpler. This makes it stronger and more reliable. This makes it easier for outsiders to learn about, understand, and ultimately trust in. Its transparent ledger also instills a sense of confidence in Bitcoin from a "new money" proposition. We get a general sense of total supply, how much is dead, who owns how much, and where the money flows. These aren't necessary to convince people to adopt some experimental monetary system but they help. Monero, in comparison, is a scary black box. Even something simple like proving how much XMR exists already gets murky.

I like Monero. It's a good coin. But I'd wager everything the Bitcoin ecosystem will provide sufficient, mature privacy tools (if needed) before Monero somehow takes the top spot. At the end of the day Bitcoin can always adopt new technology but no coin can ever replicate what makes Bitcoin special - its launch.

>>55968653
good post. tl;dr buy both

>>55968653
>But I'd wager everything the Bitcoin ecosystem will provide sufficient, mature privacy tools (if needed) before Monero somehow takes the top spot.
False belief.
1. Monero is already claiming the top spot on the darknet markets. Where are bitcoin's "sufficient, mature privacy tools" to claim its throne back?

> At the end of the day Bitcoin can always adopt new technology

2. Bitcoin has stopped adopting new tech since its civil war. Since then, they are doing half-assed "upgrades" via softforks.

Call me when bitcoin adopts confidential transactions on its base layer. Ping me back when it enables protocol-wide stealth addresses.

Bitcoin's "adopting new tech" is dead, and has been dead.

>>55968653
There's also the fact that nobody buying crypto outside of a p2p private sale is actually totally anonymous while doing so. There's way too many forensic tools to track the flow of money and all it would take is one mistake that links your actual identity back to everything, it's happened multiple times now with crypto where people ran scams and thought they made off clean then end up getting popped a few years later. And that's including people with millions or billions of dollars that know everything about how it all works. The simplest solution to reduce tax burden for crypto is to just move to a country with low taxes or no taxes on crypto rather than going through the risk and cost of trying to hide everything. Obviously there are people that are ideologically opposed to paying taxes on crypto, I'm not arguing that point, I'm saying even if that's how someone thinks they would still save more money and have a far easier life with way less risk if they just move somewhere with lower taxes for the currencies they prefer.

>>55967951
You're literally investing in the colemak keyboard company instead of the qwerty one, failing to realize that reality caters to retards

>>55967951
Autism is a made up disease you just need to go for a run

>>55968730
Explain to me how a monero transaction would be traced

>>55967951
>accumulating
Isn't monero meant to be spent as quickly as possible?

>>55968497
and yet it hasn't been sanctioned or any further attempts to reduce the conversion points because it's better for the DEA to have a honeypot than have nothing at all.

>>55968792
If you're an idiot and bought it on a CEX I shouldn't have to explain it. If you go the Defi route your transactions into that defi exchange are still traceable unless you're using XMR to deposit into it, and if you're putting money in and none is seen coming out that's a red flag. At best you could just mine it to a wallet and store it there but as others have mentioned there are issues with how XMR works that leave it open to vulnerabilities. I'm all for privacy coins and tech, I am not a bitcoin maxi, but as things stand now the only way to actually be totally anonymous is p2p cash transactions. And even then you never know if the person you're getting it from or selling it to glows or wants to fuck you over.

>>55968146
>ASIC-free
Not anymore

>>55968876
Bitmain's machine isn't ASIC. It is RISC-V CPUs, packed together.

Now go suck IRSs cock nigger

>>55968867
I cant even buy XMR on an exchange in my country. The only way I can buy XMR is WITHOUT using KYC just using P2P in the same way early Bitcoin trades were done.

Another thing, XMR is literally p2p'd like Bitcoin was in its early days, another its literally what Bitcoin was intended to be.

>>55968867
I see. But essentially, once it goes into a real monero wallet where it ends up is untraceable right? I thought you were trying to argue against that. Your other points are valid.

>>55968867
>And even then you never know if the person you're getting it from or selling it to glows or wants to fuck you over.

The difference is even if they glow, once the XMR is in your wallet, its over, its done, thats it, there is no "ok we can monitor this address now" like the glowy can with Bitcoin.

I would DCA into Monero if I could buy it through Ledger or Trezor but unfortunately that doesnt seem to be the case.

>>55967951
Keep dreaming, Anon. I'm sticking to DePIN since 2blox enables me to earn rewards for collecting mobility data.

>>55969049
Where's a suitable platform for Pajeets to trade it? I'm considering a DCA approach in XMR, much like how I'm currently doing with KREST, DIA, and IoTx, Anon.

>>55968822
monero isn't money, its a mixing service, so you have to balance it's continual deprecation against bitcoin with the fact that its not useful as a mixing service if you deposit and withdraw immediately.

>>55968350
Yes, they are retarded. So much stupid fucking speculation and not any GitHub links or issues. They are unredeemably stupid. Do not redeem. Anywho yes, it is a very good time to be buying monero! Such a nice chart, clear bottoms are developing

>>55969551
I think there are none. Same for my country
Your best bet would be: buy LTC and exchange it for XMR on majestic bank or other swap services
Here you have a good list of ways to buy XMR -> https://monerica.com/#exchanges

>>55969551
Huh, pajeet shills outright admitting to being pajeets. A bold strategy, I like it.

I like monero because it's sexy and cypherpunk as fuck, but the value proposition of crypto is Trustless Money, not 'digital money', not 'privacy money', certainly not 'defi', BTC is where the value is as it was first and it's the largest, which makes it The Money.

>>55968857
DEA is one of the weakest, dullest fed agencies, if the big boys (CIA, NSA) have an XMR backdoor they sure as fuck aren't sharing with DEA dumbfucks

>>55973111
isnt the whole project open sourced?

>>55967951
The problem is that monero does not have a fixed supply.
People gave up privacy a LONG time ago (2001). Now they just care about retaining value, which BTC does and XMR doesn't.

>>55968778
this is an exceptionally good analogy

>>55967951
if you were really autistic, you would realize bitcoin is better in terms of value
the midwit chart is scarily accurate

>>55968432
I'd love to hear your technical breakdown as to how XMR's cryptography is sus and not private.

>>55967951
>no dedicated miners
>no ASIC
>infinite inflation
>too big block size - bad for privacy
ngmi

>Bitcoin: has privacy (unlinkability) since 2009
>Bitcoin privacy (unlink.) made easier since 2019 Wasabi wallet
gtmi

>>55967951
Monero is the best cryptocurrency we have (that is nothing but a currency I mean). Here is the problem for its pumpanomics: it is actually used as a currency.

There is constant sell pressure because drug dealers have to eventually sell it for fiat along the drug route from south america in order to buy more product. When the cartels deal in XMR only right up to the coca harvesting (or at least they keep their profits as XMR; obviously the coca leaves are dirt cheap), only then will the golden orange moon eclipse everything.

>>55968222
Because the coders are anonymous, and they dont profit from txs like tornado did.

>>55968146
>ASIC-free
you know that's just a meme, right?

>>55974273
This, the fucking retards forget that monero devs are basically the only developers in the vain of satoshi

>>55968867
That's not an explanation you nigger

>>55967981
>>55968057
>>55968063
>>55968133
>>55968146
>>55968170
you missed the train.

>>55968057
You only care about institutional adoption because it makes your wallet fatter.
Honestly idgaf what robbers and barons say. CBDC can't touch me.
I don't even want institutional adoption. I want them to seethe, outlaw monero, ban it. Throw a death penalty on holding it. I want to see them twitching with fear.

>>55974217
>There is constant sell pressure because drug dealers have to eventually sell it for fiat along the drug route from south america in order to buy more product. When the cartels deal in XMR only right up to the coca harvesting (or at least they keep their profits as XMR; obviously the coca leaves are dirt cheap), only then will the golden orange moon eclipse everything.
You born 2 years ago?

>>55967951

The writing is on the wall.

Yes, OP. You have the right idea. Your autism makes you interested in the structures behind the idea but in reality bitcoin is more of an ephemeral trendy concept than what it actually does. Its the original crypto. That gives it more value than what any beneficial system other cryptos provide.

You can never make a first crypto ever again. There is always another crypto with a new gimmick around the corner. ONLY bitcoin is irreplacable. Its the first and original. That gives it a lot of sustaining value.

Case in point bitcoin doesnt actually have to do anything whereas other cryptos will get phased out over time in place of other new cryptos

>>55975998
>ONLY bitcoin is irreplacable. Its the first and original. That gives it a lot of sustaining value.

This Is What Maxipads Actually Believe

>>55976044
its true. You dont have to believe me. But wait and see all the alt/shitcoins crumble to dust while bitcoin sustains its value. Sorry kid

>>55967951
>My autism wont let me get over the fact Monero is what everyone thinks Bitcoin is.
BTC isnt that hard to use or get.
You're an idiot, every USA faggot ive meet is an idiot, and ugly fucking idiot.

>>55967951
>My autism wont let me get over the fact Monero is what everyone thinks Bitcoin is.
No one gives a fuck mate, bitcoin is digital gold and will always be the biggest crypto, monero is a shitcoin only used to buy drugs.
Monero, chainlink, ripple and so on are all schizo midwit coins.

>>55976052
>>its true. You dont have to believe me. But wait and see all the alt/shitcoins crumble to dust while bitcoin sustains its value. Sorry kid

Yes, because everybody knows the less useful something is the more valuable it becomes.

>>55976116
>monero is a shitcoin only used to buy drugs.

lol BTC's old job. The one its currently losing because it actually sucks.

>>55976141
nice graphic, thx

>>55975961
So Monero is a nigger?

>>55976044
>>55976141
>>55976150
Keep coping

>>55976150
The systemic economic value of trustless money is nearly incomprehensibly massive, I think BTC will be fine

>>55967951
99,9% of Bitcoin owners are speculators, nobody is interested in crypto because of its tech, privacy, etc. they all just want to ride another bull run and cash out with fiat money at the end. This is the sad reality of cryptos.

>>55977807
monero is even worse because its just a fork of a premined shitcoin, long term holding zero value. only massively delusional people think monero holds a financial future in a world where bitcoin doesn't.

>>55977874
What this anon said.. if BTC dies, Monero will also lose in the end of the day. Monera needs BTC, but BTC doesnt need Monero.
>b-but muh darknet coin!!
who gives a fuck, most normal people dont use darknet anyway

>>55977807
>most are speculators
That's very true, and most will cash out to crappy fiat, and will regret it seeing how fiat loses value yearly while BTC will always go up with time

>>55968170
it's Java vs Python all over again.

>>55978507
except java is dead and has been forked to be used exclusively on phones and python is still a thing for new projects because you will always need glue

>>55974294
he thinks we aren't dumping on him constantly

>>55975961
>The writing is on the wall.
yes, it is
"Monegro is not needed"

>>55968406
Yes, because it's tangible
Now tell us what kinds of transactions are carried out in gold

>>55967951
based XMR chad
(((keynesians))) seethe against sound money, safe mode
>t. living in hyperinflation

>>55967951
every device you use to buy, trade, store etc etc monero is already being tracked and logged. cool idea but unless you did everything in disguise from the very beginning then its it not private at all. your autism should have already found that government backdoors are everywhere. by buying monero you are deticated 100% to that system, meaning to turn any of that xmr into cash you are going to have to jump thru more hoops then the ones in your meme. my last point is even though you are putting BTC down, the peice of xmr completely depends on it. regardless of what we hold, btc is king interms of moving our alt coin prices. you just might be a retard and not autistic. be open to all options. look at the chainlink retards who put all their eggs in one basket and missed a whole bullrun just because they were super autistic.

if bitcoin originally was what monero is (no public ledger), crypto would never take off like bitcoin did, public ledger what helped it become trusted by people, if there was no public ledger people would still think btc was a russain ddos trojan garbage
therefore, monero can never succeed like bitcoin did

>>55967951
it's a long battle, Monero is digital cash, in the end we will win
we all know bitcoin will never be digital cash because it's not fungible
all btc maxis have is the 21million cap meme and claiming Monero fixed emission is le bad
Monero has a fixed emission of 0.6 xmr per block forever, meaning everyone knows what to expect and a fixed rate means it will be % lower every year, and it's already lower than gold "inflation". Have you ever heard of Gold inflation problem? of course not, that's retarded
There are reasons for this "inflation", such as it ensures miners will keep mining to secure the network and transactions fees will always be low for the people. If you want more info check https://www.moneroinflation.com

>>55969506
>earn rewards
Ride's NFT and metaverse is rewarding

>>55969049
Why not LoC, if it could earn you NFTs via AceStakes

>>55967951
>LN for privacy
?????????????????????????
>taproot
??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

you need NO-KYC for monero as well, retard
if you give out your info, no amount of ringCT can save you on court

so fucking sad to see a monero thread plagued by tech illiterates

>>55968057
Same jews who told us regulations were good.

>>55984300
Thank you.

>>55985932
Jews must love monero then, it prevents so many from making money

What is privacy when one can't keep eyes off their data?

>>55969049
Right now, DCAing into RAIL is my priority

>>55967951
Saito can satiate your autism and make you money - I love Monero, it is the better version of Bitcoin, but Saito blows both out of the water in terms of game theory and security and scale. You'd probably love it - you can thank me never.

>>55968663
I'd prefer RAIL, my best bet.

>>55967951
Don't fall for fake $XMR coin, Charles Manson Alex Jones beetlejuice 1776 pitbull (Karen) is the real coin TICKER: $MONERO

Bitcoin for holding
Monero for buying

>>55989997

>>55989997
For once, you jeets shouldn't rug this shitcoin. It'd be funny to watch it outperform Monero. So just let it run indefinitely.

>>55978202
>who gives a fuck, most normal people dont use darknet anyway
the global capitalisation of black market guns, drugs, and human trafficking alone is estimated to be at least 1.5trillion and that's a low estimate.
congrats on achieving the most economically illiterate post of the thread, retard.

>>55985911
>LN for privacy
holy fucking kek, batman

Drivechains solve this problem

>>55968867
heh. you're so cute and innocent baby boy. i want to pinch your cheeks and pat your head. why don't you let mommy take care of the scary crypto stuff hmm?

XRP is go-between. A temporary stepping stone. You switch your value into it and then out again once the private transaction is complete and the XMR blockchain has served its purpose. That's about as lousy a game theory as you can get

When it comes to diving into the blockchain in general, I highly suggest doing your research beforehand.

https://blockchain-ads.com/