/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>55453097
Absolutely should be illegal and punishable by exile

The Romans executed and exiled the Jews a few times during it's existence because of it. Only braindead Americans think behaving like a Jew and supporting that corrupted capitalist ideology is a good thing

>>55453097
>yet places like the UAE do just fine despite this.
Due to massive amounts of de-facto slavery and corruption. Also oil.
This system is not about prosperity, except for the few. The same as every other system in the world.

>>55453118
The romans also devalued their own currency. There is no escape from corruption because money is not the source. Politicians and political systems are.
Or do you actually think the dole was a wise move and not an attempt to buy reputation?

Problem isn't usury, problem is fiat.

The entire fiat grift rests on debasement outpacing wage growth, such that real wages fall while assets inflate (parasitic transfer of resources from income earners to oligarchs).

USD shitcoin is going to zero.

-M2-
1980: $1.5T
2000: $4.5T
2020: $15T
2023 $20.5T

>>55453097
Guillotines outside the financial districts.

>>55453134
the real problem is that only smart people can understand this while the world is ruled by the braindead masses (ie corrupt people taking advantage of them)

politics was never a simple game, democracy is an absolute joke

>>55453240
but honestly the core problem isn't usury, or fiat, or democracy even
core problem is evil as all religions have always known, religions have fallen and evil has spread as evidenced by rampant atheism

kali yuga must pass as all other cycles have.

>>55453097
if I lend my money to someone I expect extra back to make up for my time and to make up for the amount lost to inflation. Don't like it? Don't borrow.

>>55453266
There was a pope who had a pet elephant. Religion is a centralzied authority. All centralized authorities are corrupted over time. No exceptions. The failure rate speaks for itself.
The moral are handicapped against the immoral always. Until a system is implemented which rewards moral behavior over immoral behavior, this will remain the case.

>>55453118
Absolutely nothing about that is capitalist.

>>55453240
Incorrect. The world is ruled by evil people that are well aware of this like Jay the Faggot that relentlessly dump USD shitcoins on the masses

>>55453266
False.

1) Hard money forces positive sum activity as everything has to balance.
2) Hard money fell out of favor for transactional not economic reasons during the industrial revolution.
3) Politics always favors soft money because it enables easy and opaque theft.

BTC solves money, it is technical fix for a political problem, it is transactionally easy hard money, and unlike physical hard money, abstraction layers can ALSO be trustless and uncorruptible, preventing the problems seen in "backed" soft money where the manipulation happens in the abstraction layers.

You can't sell corn for less than it costs to produce, unless you pay people to grow corn. This is a supply-side subsidy, as opposed to a demand-side subsidy, i. e. paying people to buy a given thing. Social spending acts as a supply-side subsidy for labor, if a worker needs $1k/m to exist they CAN'T sell their labor for less than $1k/m, but what happens if we give them food stamps, subsided housing, Medicare etc etc etc? Well now they can sell their labor for less than it costs to produce! Oligarchs benefit, no one else, certainly not the workers.

But wait! How were those social programs paid for? Deficit spending? You mean counterfeit money? Exactly. Deficit spending is an expansion of the money supply (simple dilution), it robs ALL income earners and gives to asset holders (as an increase in money supply will naturally inflate assets) THIS is the cause of the wage/productivity divergence seen since the 60s!

The entire fiat grift rests on debasement outpacing wage growth, such that real wages fall while assets inflate (parasitic transfer of resources from income earners to oligarchs). PoW crypto allows workers to opt out of the fiat grift, BTC will pump because statist fucking shits will never stop debasing.

>>55453097
>>55453111
>>55453118
>>55453174
Go back.

>>55454470
where, unironically

>>55455442
/pol/

>>55455459
ah yes, the issue of people choking under high interest debt falls right into /pol/ schizos. Everything is fine, please pay no attention to the credit card debt statistics sirs

>>55455464
/biz/ is and always has been a libertarian board. as has /pol/, before 2014. who gives a shit what nigger cattle do, they will financially ruin themselves either way.

>>55455498
biz has also always been an anti semitic board so

>>55455498
>>55453134
>libertards defend usury/interest
>blame fiat instead
you've always been wannabe jews

>>55455514
>>55455538
>noooooo you can't just have heckin voluntary agreements! it's da jooz fault if nigger cattle choose to buy an $80k pickup truck at 30% interest!

>>55454358
So btc is a threat to every society that has an economy that's based on a fiat currency. Would you not say btc is doomed because of this? The nature of btc goes against this those who benefit from fiat. Aka the most powerful people around the world.

>>55455575
jews create all money in circulation retard, even if you behave responsibly and never took a loan the money supply keeps growing. The nigger cattle debt is peanuts compared to corporate debt

>>55455601
btc is not a threat to fiat because its traded against fiat. What is btc priced in again ?? us dollars, euros, etc

>>55455575
We do not live in a libertarian society, so if usury is bad, I see no reason to keep it up. It keeps my fellow countrymen down while elevation those with money to even higher echelons while providing pretty much nothing else. A system like this is arguably impossible to ever catch up with for many, and the results can be sinister (ever growing student loan debt that can't be discharged, essentially a risk free loan). I see no reason for this "legal indentured servitude" to exist if it is not required for prosperity

>>55455538
Fiat is effectively usury you retard

>>55455617
all that usury money is useless if they cant buy actual wealth with it, like land, factories, wageslaves, etc.
At the end of the day its people accepting to trade their time for fiat, their land for fiat, selling their business for fiat.. that gives them power.
Its a big illusion. They have nothing if people just say no

>>55455618
Fiat is debt, currently with interest attached. You can have fiat without interest and you can have fiat without debt. But jews wont ever allow that

>>55455635
>>55455641
yep, money at the end is a medium of exchange. Many are abusing the combination of both to become stupid rich and push others down. Kind of awful

>>55455538
>libertards
Not a statist, statist. Usury isn't a problem, manipulating money supply is the problem.

>>55455601
>those who benefit from fiat.
Parasites.

Hard money is highly desirable systemically as it forces positive sum activity, hard money however WAS impractical to use, being replaced by soft money hundreds of years ago. History has proven that 'backed' soft money will always be abused, the difficultly inherent in past hard money makes verification etc unwieldy, leading backed soft money to become unbacked over time. But the systemic economic value of hard money remains, BTC is hard money that's easy to use, that is it's value. It is not in competition with the financial system, it is in competition with fiat. BTC will continue to grow as long as statists debase, which they will never stop doing as debasement is the lever which they use to manipulate the economy. While Economy is naturally positive sum, fiat allows the manipulation of Economy to favor zero and even negative sum economic transactions! Blasphemy! Economy will not abide. You see powerful parasites and say "they are too powerful, we can't fight them" Economy sees powerful parasites and says "so much free value!". BTC is the sword Economy wields to slay the Adversary, BTC's Becoming is guaranteed by the systemic economic value gained by fiat's demise.

>>55455749
if production of goods/services grows in proportion to money expansion then prices remain stable. If production outpaces money expansion then prices can even go down. Do you see prices going down despite the massive increase in production thanks to technology in the last decades? nope they still go up, thats because of usury/interest

>>55455761
>rant defending btc as hard money
>will sell for fiat during the next bull
yawn

Yes lol. Debt sets a lending minimum. I talk shit about people and companies that borrow money sometimes, but overwhelmingly the ability to borrow money based on greed and not social perspectives is beneficial.

You can see it very clearly with how credit card processors cut out businesses that don’t conform these days and they die. The ability of everyone to borrow money freely is important.

>>55455767
Prices fall with rising productively, debasement at the level of productivity gains is not 'free' it is a parasitic transfer of resources from income earners to asset holders, it is negative sum and therefore will be eliminated for being blasphemous, repent or be forgotten

>>55455803
the scheme can go on forever, as you can see the usd has been debased 99% in the last century. The asset holders will sell at one point to speculate on other markets and on and on it goes. Control of means of productions and armies is the real wealth/power. Money/fiat is an illusion

>>55455823
Incorrect. Oligarchs monopolizing productively through fiat constitutes a labor price cap which will always result in labor shortages and inferior productivity to a nation state that does not impose such price caps. See: every commie shithole ever, See also: labor force participation in the West in the last 50yrs.

BTC solves money, it is technical fix for a political problem, it is transactionally easy hard money, and unlike physical hard money, abstraction layers can ALSO be trustless and incorruptible, preventing the problems seen in "backed" soft money where the manipulation happens in the abstraction layers.

>>55455614
Exactly. Because the US dollar is the world's currency at the moment. Everything is purchased in US dollars. Weapons deals, global trade contracts, military contracts, big macs etc. So business as usual as long as btc isn't the central currency that the usd is.

>>55455894
what is incorrect? the obvious end goal is these very oligarchs controlling every mean of production through the state / the private sector being done away with completely, aka global communism.
BTC solves nothing as long as goods are priced in fiat, and they can never be priced in btc because of limited supply (why buy a product with btc today when it will be cheaper in btc tomorrow -> economy stagnates)

No. Aristotle was wrong on a lot of things and his treatment of interest is one of those.
the very simple notion that interest is a reward for giving up my liquidity is enough to demolish all of his nonsense

>>55455790
every dollar you borrow is a new dollar being created which must be paid back with interest, rising the prices of goods and services. You benefit temporalilly but doom your society longterm

>>55455933
t. jew
your "liquidity" has no actual value, what holds value is the belief people have in your assets holding any value whatsoever and so be willing to accept trading real goods for it. Once that is gone so is your 'wealth'. Aristotle was 100x smarter than you and was disgusted with people growing rich without creating anything

>>55455945
>ery dollar you borrow is a new dollar being created which must be paid back with interest, rising the prices of goods and services
every dollar you borrow is only lent to you with the expectation that you will use it to produce new goods and services which you will sell for money and pay back your loan.

prices of goods and services rise when demand rises faster than supply. if you take your loans and increase the supply of goods and services in the economy, prices won't go up (except in select markets, e.g. entertainment gets more expensive once everyone is making enough money to satisfy their basic needs and starts redirecting their income towards more superfluous things)

>>55455952
>what holds value is the belief people have in your assets holding any value whatsoever and so be willing to accept trading real goods for it.
that IS liquidity, you walking Dunnig-Kruger syndrom.

>people growing rich without creating anything
you're lending out money to people who don't have money so that they can put that money to productive uses.
the financial systems connects people with resources to the people with good ideas. not everyone needs to be a venture capitalist and risk their grandchildren's livelihood just so they don't look "lazy".
it's completely fine for people to just lend out their money to entrepreneurs and not have to worry about the details of running a business

>>55455959
>only lent to you with the expectation that you will use it to produce new goods and services
wrong, a good chunk of this new money goes straight into market speculation which often isnt helping increase production but simply move wealth from one hands to another aka transfer of wealth.
In any case price of goods rising is NOT a problem if wages / income are growing proportionally. The wealth theft is happening with this "lag", prices rise faster than wages.
Not to mention there is not enough money in circulation to ever repay the debt+interest and so new money must be continually created to pay back previous loans

>>55455970
yes i know thats how you jew thinks you dont have to spell it for me. But the rest of us find it repulsive and then you cry when you get persecuted. Dont say you werent warned

>>55455924
>why buy a product with btc today when it will be cheaper in btc tomorrow -> economy stagnates
Literally educated stupid. Nobody buys iphones today because they'll be cheaper tomorrow? "Somehow" Economy worked for all history with hard money, but I'm sure the people that benefit from relentless debasement only propagate that it's necessary for selfless reasons! You've been shown the path, follow it or don't, fiat dies either way.

>>55456034
are iphones getting cheaper? last i saw theyre going for 800-1200 usd. You missed the point completely. If goods are priced in btc and technological advances are increasing industrial output, and so goods supply outpaces demand then goods get cheaper in btc. There is no incentive to spending because you then live in deflationary economy. People would save as much possible and spend only in essentials halting the economy to almost pre industrial levels.
>"Somehow" Economy worked for all history with hard money
yea we can see the results today of how well it "worked", allowed a small mafia whose religion was gold to take over whole nations. Did this "hard money" prevent central banking and the establishment of fiat you so much hate?

>>55455990
>Not to mention there is not enough money in circulation to ever repay the debt+interest and so new money must be continually created to pay back previous loans
yes. there's absolutely nothing wrong with this
money is just fucking paper. it's an accounting unit. it's supposed to be created and destroyed as the needs of the society dictate it.
the State had this in mind when it created money.

>>55455998
i'm a catholic of italian descent

>>55453097

>>55455970
Snowball effect faggot. The lenders get more money to lend after getting paid back, then they form a cartel of lenders of sorts. Then get a monopoly on lending (banks). Then they run your nation and do whatever they please with it like filling it with shitskins. But you retards can only think of money and nothing else

>>55456097
and who decides who has the power to create such money? why most people must work their ass off for peanuts of these 'accounting units' while jews create billions from thin air?
catholicism banned usury for catholics, but not for jews. Very convenient

>>55456070
Already answered: >>55454358

Stop simping for your slave master, their shitcoin is going to zero.

>>55456097
>the State had this in mind when it created money.
The State didnt create money, do you even history

>>55456117
>and who decides who has the power to create such money?
the State, which derives its authority from the God-given authority of fathers over their families

>catholicism banned usury for catholics, but not for jews
funny of you to say that when protestantism became so widespread precisely because "aryan" northern europeans wanted to get in on the usury fun

anyway medieval catholicism banned interest precisely because they followed Aristotle's asinine logic of "money doesn't reproduce therefore interest bad". usury was only banned to catholics because it was enforced by the church and not the State, so when medieval lords adopted protestantism they could just swap the church for a new church that allowed usury and follow through with their money-lending plans

>>55456144
>The State didnt create money, do you even history
the State most certainly did create money, communist

>>55456154
so the State created gold which is money to this very day? very funny.
If you're talking about fiat, the Federal Reserve is a private corporation which has the power to issue new dollars, the only fiat that matters.
>>55456147
lmao, they dont call you guys catholicucks for nothing. Keep simping for jews and their usury, cuck.
>>55456138
Maxis gonna maxi, at the end of the day you'll trade your shitcoin for dollars, cause thats what you use to buy the house you want

>>55453290
>And if ye lend to them of whom ye hope to receive, what thank have ye? for sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much again. But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.

>>55453119
Nowhere in his post did he claim UAE's system was fair or just; simply that it does not leverage usury.
Lame strawman. Why post?

>>55456034
>"Somehow" Economy worked for all history with hard money,
It really didn't though. Almost every single nation debased its money throughout history.
Money is not the common failure point. Not hard money, not shell money, not bean money, not wheel money, not paper money.
>>55456702
>Strawman
OP stated "UAE does just fine" despite the lack of usury. I am simply pointing out that their entire economy relies upon two things. Oil and unpaid labor. This is indisputibly relevant because this completely contradicts the claim that UAE's economy is "just fine". When it is, in fact, peak corruption.

>>55455498
kill yourself shit colored creature
this board was always the financial version of pol

>>55456848
Wrong
T. /k/ommando

>>55455933
Disgusting kike detected. You wouldn't lend money to criminals unless you got your interest, which is the only way you'll lend to them you fucking crook. If usury was illegal, people would only lend out of the kindness of their heart, and kikes would be seething because you won't lend money to them to rape your country. Aristotle and religion was way smarter than you. And those of you who want to make money on your family by lending them money? Fucking sinful kikes.

>>55456755
Does the US, and by extension western, economy not benefit greatly from UAE's governance model? The world is not a series of isolated nations - the peak corruption you speak of is a global issue and not related to the question of whether usury is necessary to facilitate prosperity.
I see your point now, though - I retract my strawman accusation. You are correct in that national prosperity requires exploitation of something, I think the point is that exploitation of natural resources > exploitation of a nation's capital, from a moral perspective. I am intentionally overlooking their flavour of slavery under the assumption that our flavour of slavery cancels it out.

>>55456364
>just give away your money bro, you'll go to heaven!

>>55453097
Anyone that knowingly supports usury is a pro corruption apologist and deserves everything that’s coming to them. Alhamdulillah.

>>55457130
The question wasn't "whether usury is necessary to facilitate prosperity" it was "should usury be illegal". With the UAE as an example of an economy that does not rely on usury and the premise that it is "just fine" without it. I merely pointed out that the premise is retarded and omits key details of the economy used as an example. Reliance on de-facto slavery is not an economy that is "just fine" by any measure, moral or otherwise.

>>55453111
*at least exile.

>>55455575
I'm a libertarian and kikelovers like you fucking disgust me. We don't have a "free market" , everything about our economy is controlled by kikes, they purposefully devalue our currency and our savings in order to weaken the middle class and enrich themselves. All these economic theories, all this capitalism vs socialism pointless debating is pointless so long as we live under a tightly controlled jewish financial system. In a white high-trust society, any economic system will work. In a jewish system, no economic system works. Thus these reddit-tier posts about economics are impotent distractions from the real topic which is the jewish question.

>>55457207
How is putting people in debt through usury not modern day slavery? The premise for a majority muslim world not allowing usury is simply Allah forbids it. And if Allah forbids it it doesn’t matter if we know the reasons why. Because only Allah is infallible. Alhamdulillah for Allah and Alhamdulillah for Islam and Alhamdulillah for the Quran.

>>55453097

>>55456755
Nation states are very recent in our history
Government spending isn't. Clearly that's a main problem.

>>55456755
UAE has no economy. Oil and slaves aren't an economy.

>>55457452
>Allah thinks usury is worse than having literal slaves
The state of your "prophet"
Made up nonsense like all centralized religion.
>>55457669
>Government
Yes, government is the one common failure point.
>>55457673
I wouldn't say that, it's just a very corrupt and unsustainable economy.

>>55453308
Capitalism is the legalization of usury within a free market system

If we allowed fair competition and eliminated usury the free market would function normally and well

>>55457452
Then why does the Koran contradict itself numerous times and why was Mohamed a pedophile warmonger? Islam was made by Jews to trick camel drivers into killing Christian’s

>>55457673
Some middle eastern gas station regimes use oil billions to live off stonk dividends and other investment returns. Money makes money.

>>55453097
Isn't usury harambe for Islam religions?

>>55457850
Really comes down what you accept as economy. It's 100% unsustainable and open to shocks.

Usuary in the long run creates monopolies. Clearly I oversimplify here.

>>55457942
Citation needed

>>55455575
You’re not gonna make it.

>>55458048
From a make it/not make it perspective, the more economical mechanics there are to keep idiots and midwits down, the more easily i can stand out by simply not being a low impulse control imbecile. Same with stocks, crypto and other jewish casinos. A flood of retards who don't do research, panic sell, panic buy and lose everything just fills the accounts of those that do basic reading, buy and hold.

>>55454470
Go back to Tel-Aviv.

>>55457445
Rare awoken soul.

If you outlaw the demand for and price of money (credit, interest), what incentive do you give to lenders?

>>55458032
>Usuary in the long run creates monopolies.
All centralized authority creates monopolies.
>>55458038
Anything to do with moses and Ramses II has been proven wrong. there was no msoes in egypt, no hebrew slaves, no slavery at all. At the purported timeline of the exodus, the only "slaves" held were criminals who committed crimes against Egypt and were extradited to serve their due punishments. Ramses did not die pursuing fleeing hebrews into the red sea, he died of asphyxiation by arthritis at age ~90. Moses, and the exodus, has long been proven to be an amalgamation of other myths. Most notably Babylonian, Akkadian, Sumerian and Persian. There is no record of these events in Egypt, one of the most literate civilizations at the time. And true, you could say that Egypt having a central government burned any dissenting texts but that is also the case of the Qoran which has been collected numerous times and burned before new interpretations were redistributed.
All the religious texts surrounding Egypt are based upon semitic lies, intentionally or unintentionally. Egypt, as the msot prosperous civilization, attracted much resentment from the petty kingdoms who relied upon their grain and paid in gold.

>>55458203
Further, the purported "plagues of Egypt" are annual phenomenon that occur to this day. From the red clay which turns the river red, the frogs yearly spawning, the locusts, the storms etc. Are all common natural annual phenomenons.

>>55458179
>what incentive do you give to lenders?
The betterment of society. The death of parasites.

>>55458229
How to prove you are bettering society with funds borrowed without offering collateral in the form of value?

>>55458229
>The betterment of society. The death of parasites.

>hey guys I want to build a school for children but i don't have any money, can I have a loan?
>no, sucks to be you

>>55458254
The problem is that you think that a new central authority would have the same parasitic tendencies.
>Nooo you have to let me leech of your labor.. nooo it's not fair that i should have to do something for a living noooooo this is literally like anudah shoah

>>55455601
it's the contrary, fiat is doomed because of btc, because no one can stop it, people will join it and the people who want it to die will be a minority and become irrelevant and disappear

>>55455614
>>55455907
obviously bitcoin will be priced in something else than bitcoin, because that's how you compare prices. statist monkey

>>55458338
Every central authority has the same parasitic tendencies. Name a single one in all history that hasn't engaged corruption. Almost all have debased currencies just as an example.
This is not exclusive to a particular culture or group. Though some clearly have higher tendencies towards corruption.
Trust based systems are the actual point of failure. Trust itself will always be abused.

>>55456755
the UAE is covered in Usury, mortgages are widely available, the government invests at interest all the time lol.Also oil is like <5% of GDP now and slavery is nonexistent, jewish strawman enjoyers hate UAE and Dubai because it's the only based place left on the earth.

>>55457994
Clearly.
And you consider that an economy?

>>55458203
I don't see a contradiction in those two statements.

How do you know. Have you found a tablet saying ayyoo, moses no?

Agree to the pursue thing. Diesn't price anything.

>All the religious texts surrounding Egypt are based upon semitic lies, intentionally or unintentionally
Citation needed

Agree to the last statement. Completely possible their original clerics/leaders saw this as a reason to spin history a little.

All three holy books to contain some wisdom.

>>55458425
>slavery is nonexistent
Bullshit. 90% of your workers are migrants. Many of whom have had their passports taken from then preventing them from leaving. As non-citizens with no passports, no legal action can be taken and they are not even considered human.
>strawman
Where is my strawman argument? You don't know the meaning of the word.
>dubai
Is a shitty. With no real development. A billionaires playground. Intentionally set up to lure investors with promises that are never fulfilled. Like most developments in the UAE.
>muh joos
Are your governments best friends. Don't pretend it isn't true.

>>55456186
>so the State created gold which is money to this very day? very funny.
gold isn't money. money is what the State accepts as payment for taxes. everything else is just assets that can be traded for money

>>55458408
Sometimes there was no huge corruption when authorities could plunder other regions.

>>55458425
Oil is 5% "now? Yeah, bc they invested for 50y into the whole world. Shit adds up. Theres no technology or other advancement coming from that region. Also guite a lot Hebrew in that part of Arabia. (sure, where's money...)

>>55456755
>every single nation debased its money throughout history.
Not nations, politicians. See: >>55454358
Debasement facilitates easy and opaque theft

>>55458471
>Citation needed
Read a book. Any book at all.
Everything discovered so far contradicts the Exodus narrative and the hebrew slavery narrative. Moses was based on Sargon. The Exodus myth on Babylon. Noah upon Ziusudra/Atrahasis/Utnapishtim. The very commandments ripped shamelessly from Egyptian Ma'at. The power of the Word belonged to the King of Egypt. Who was a Shepherd to his flock.
>Completely possible their original clerics/leaders saw this as a reason to spin history a little.
But not yours, yours are "infallible".
>some wisdom.
Key word being some. Winnie the Pooh contains "some" wisdom too. The rest is solely for entertainment purposes. Either yours or anothers.
>I always get to where I'm going by walking away from where I have been - Winnie the Pooh

>>55458497
>Sometimes
So it's okay to have an exploitable system as long as it is only exploited most times?
>>55458498
Politics is a necessity of central authority. Even Kingships had court politics.
My argument is that no nation has escaped the phenomenon of corruption because all nations have had a central authority. The authority itself being the main point of failure and not the system they have authority over.

>>55458487
>passports taken from them preventing them from leaving
Passports being taken is a jewish myth that's illegal
>I'm a dumb nigger
Yes, enjoy paying 75% effective tax rate bro! Developments are never fulfilled that's why the worlds tallest buildings are here that's why it's been the most popular migration destination for millionaires for 25 years running hurr durr

>>55454358
>BTC
You mean XLM and XRP right? Because a key aspect of money is how readily it can be exchanged. BTC is slow and expensive and adds no value to compensate for this as a "money."

>>55458598
>Passports being taken is a jewish myth that's illegal
Something can be illegal and not enforced because no-one cares about the victims.
Stop shilling your shitty. Obvious scam is obvious. Needs more dumb millionaires to stay afloat.

>>55458449
Not sure I can think of a modern economy I'd consider both real and successful. The global system is a work of collective fiction and they're milking it while the system lasts. That's more or less anyone can hope for at the moment.

>>55453174
That's right! Bankers should be kept safe, and goyim should be in fear of execution if they step outside of the line

There is literally nothing wrong with usury. Just work hard, save money, and pay down your debts (+interest)

>>55454358
>You can't sell corn for less than it costs to produce
Yes you can. It's called cutting losses if there's a supply glut and you want to retain some money from the growing season rather than have it rot

>>55453097
They still lend money and charge interest in UAE they just call it leases instead of loans and embed the interest expense in the lease. Muslims lie about everything.
t. Banker

>>55453290
I see Boxxy I save.

>>55458555
>Everything discovered so far contradicts the Exodus narrative and the hebrew slavery narrative
That doesn't mean religion or holy text are pointless/fake.

I know of the Ancient roots. Hebrew communicate that openly.

Ofc some. Never said they are holy as peoples or smth.
He does. Also that cartoon is likely coded reference for the 7 sins.

>>55458590
Gee, no. Just said there are examples and these are usually bloody.

Your argument is valid.

>>55458738
Neither can I
Lol, lmao even.
However there are worse and better economies. However, I'd say there are also non economies.

>>55458408
>Every central authority has the same parasitic tendencies. Name a single one in all history that hasn't engaged corruption.
National socialist Germany, Libya.

>>55458910
>are pointless/fake.
Never claimed they were pointless, but a large portion of them are false. Intentionally or not.
>Also that cartoon is likely coded reference for the 7 sins.
Ok.
>>55458935
>National socialist Germany, Libya.
No.
But even in the instances where, for a brief period, there is no corruption of a central authority. The centralized nature of the authority begs corruption and the uncorrupt are always at a disadvantage against the corrupt and are incapable of preventing it forever.

>>55458971
>No.
Yes, they were only stopped because external parasites were butthurt and got scared of the consequences.

>>55455514
So what?

>>55455614
Barely more than half a century ago the USD was valued in gold. The Euro did not even exist.

>>55459008
It's ridiculous to pretend an entire political movement was composed entirely of incorruptible true believers, and even more ridiculous to pretend that whatever its purity level, the regime would stay clean. NSDAP party membership exploded after they got into power cause opportunists jumped on a chance to grab a piece of the pie. Same shit happened with the USSR where the aristocratic nobility was exterminated and simply replaced by party red nobles. Every leader after the Stalin commanded less personal loyalty and was more surrounded by flunkies and bureaucrats he bought off with fancy offices. Similarly, NSDAP had its own faction purge moment (night of the long knives) and uncertain succession seeing as Hitler played organizations and their leaders against each other, keeping their responsibilities partially overlapping to make sure they're competing rather than uniting against him. Add unclear succession with at least half a dozen equally viable candidates with their own cliques and followers and shit goes downhill pretty fast.

But if you wanna keep pretending they were all good boys who would be guided by the magical aryan spirit of their ancestors into perfect unity of purpose, keep at it.

>>55459008
Just as an example. The troops didn't get most of the equipment they needed. This is due to corruption. Politicians had first pick of goods seized. This is corruption.
Come back when you're out of your glorifying phase where your favorite dindu nuffin.

>>55459067
Interest-free monetary systems where the jew is not allowed to be a parasite constantly dragging society down in the gutter is possible. Yes, humans are corrupt. Wow what a revelation. You want a nobel price for that discovery?
A system without interest, that is where parasites are not allowed to exploit those less fortunate is possible, has been done and can be done again and it will be several times better than what we have today.

>>55456070
IPhones today offer more value than iPhones from a decade ago in excess of inflation. This goes back to the iPhone's inception. If you bought an original iPhone for its inflation-adjusted price you would be ripped off.

>>55459159
Christianity was opposed to usury until it wasn't, islam is supposed to be anti usury but still sneaks it in as fees or "voluntary" gifts. Human corruption rots any system inside-out given enough time. In a few decades some NS upper party economist would decide that economy numbers getting greener faster is worth a seemingly innocent and minuscule concession to interest economics. Small steps corrupt.

Usury itself shouldn't be illegal, it's how anyone makes money on a loan, and access to liquidity is legitimately valuable to have ("one in the hand is worth two in the bush", etc). That said, rates should probably be capped at something like 10% regardless of the loan type. Anything higher is just predatory (yes I know rates in the 80s approached 20%).

>>55458935
Nazi Germany was ultra corrupt.
Libya paid the price for being such a state. However there were repressed mi oritirs as well.

>>55453097
how would aristotle open a business or get money in an emergency?

>>55459237
Lending existing money, not freshly printed money.

>>55459219
Price/rate control. Delusional.

>>55459159
Your entire argument is based upon the premise that usury is the only means of exploitation.
Usury is a tool and banning it will barely reduce corruption, if at all.
>has been done and can be done again
And it was no less corrupt. Politicians still got away with murder. Poor people were still exploited.

>>55459258
aristotle is talking about money lending not money printing

>>55459219
A fixed fee that can't be multiplied, debts that can't be sold and added fees to etc. When it comes to punishment for not paying it back it can be in the form of forced labor, confiscation or goods or jail etc.
When it comes to what one actually can get a loan for is also something to consider. Wan't to loan to invest in speculative nonsense? forget it. Wan't to loan because you need materials for a job? Can you document said job? OK, have a loan, but if you mess up we will take your tools. Need flour to bake bread so you can sell and make some money? Sure, have a loan.
The entire system is flawed and causes everyone except a few to prosper as it is today and strangely enough lots of people can't begin to imagine it being any other way.
The amount of retardation one have to witness when discussing these matters is almost overwhelming. One retard i spoke to thought that not having interest on loans meant that he could loan unlimited money and live life while another felt sympathy for the poor clerks in his local bank branch that would lose their income.

>>55459229
>Nazi Germany was ultra corrupt.
It was the most based society in over a millennia.
>And it was no less corrupt. Politicians still got away with murder. Poor people were still exploited.
This is an idiot take and it is clear that you are profiting personally from usury or else you would not be so shortsighted.

>>55459283
Yes, money was still issued by authorities and they usually fucked with it. I don't know if/how Athens back then did it or not. I'm any case he's right, compound interest/Usuary is the means of control. The taking hand is below the giving hand.

>>55459303
Never worked

>>55459315
What does this even mean?

How am I profiting... Wtf?

>>55459366
>Never worked
The reason why it "won't work" is because of pressure from external parasites who fear that said system will spread, which it will naturally, so instead of accepting a peoples will to live free they start their media campaign of lies and get the "international community" behind a campaign of terror.
>What does this even mean?

>How am I profiting... Wtf?
It means that you probably have some wealth which you are earning interest on and you rationalize usury as being acceptable for that reason. Many such cases.

>>55459303
>Wan't to loan to invest in speculative nonsense? forget it
Everything is speculative. You can't guarantee the crop won't fail. You are speculating, as a farmer and an investor in agriculture, on the weather. There are steps to minimize this speculation but it always exists. Shipping containers go missing. Ships sink. Supplies are stolen.
This is before you get into potential new businesses which absolutely require speculation.
> Can you document said job?
>you mess up we will take your tools.
Immediately open to corruption. If the documents are centralized and the authority which has power to confiscate collude then it can be highly profitable to offer loans and then seize tools. But tools are not enough as collateral to incentivize loaning unless they are very expensive.
Where is the incentive to lend?

>>55459406
No. The parasites are not external. Every peoples has their own. High trust societies fall victim to the trust based systems on which they rely upon. Trust which is abused immediately or over time.
The fact that you cannot recognize trust as the issue while speaking of media campaigns and lies is baffling.

>>55459423
Your problem is that you see everything from the perspective of personal benefit, you can't fathom someone doing something for altruistic means as in the well-being of others.. which quite frankly is your problem, not mine.
As the painter from Braunau so famously said:
>Is the people the servant of money or money the servant of the people?

>>55459474
>The parasites are not external.
In the case of Germany and Libya the parasites were definitely external unless you have some flawed mainstream understanding of history.

>>55459506
>altruistic means
>your problem, not mine.
No, it's societies problem. Every society. Through all time. There is always a corrupter who abuses trust. History speaks to this.
Your argument is
>just trust me bro
>humans are fundamentally good
Until they are not. Then you're fucked and your system goes down the toilet like all systems in history which started with principles and ended with violence.
This is especially the case when there are 8 billion people and you can only remember a few hundred at best. Why would you lend to a stranger when the stranger may be potentially corrupt, or even just stupid? Do you give to the homeless indiscriminately, trusting that they will not waste the money? Or maybe you give them sandwhiches hoping that the act does not enable them to waste other charity they receive?
>tl;dr All you have posted is fantasy scenario that is nothing but piss in the wind of the reality.

>>55459593
>Why would you lend to a stranger when the stranger may be potentially corrupt, or even just stupid?
Because they have collateral.

>>55459515
>invincible ignorance
You selectively ignore historical fact you should know about the topics you enjoy. Germany and Libya were as corrupt as the next nation. You're just another anon who has to justify everything about the things he likes because you are only allowed to like the infallible.

The argument here is that we have to have interest because otherwise it would be exploited, not that interest in itself is explotation and because humans are easily corruptible we just have to use interest.. such a backwards logic that you would have to be a parasite to justify it.

>>55459645
>Because they have collateral.
If they had collateral of equal or greater value to the loan, there would be no need for the loan. They could simply sell the collateral and rebuy it back once in profits.
And who is holding the collateral in the event of contract failure and what is their incentive for holding? This is time and space they are giving up that could be used productively.

>>55453134
Usury already existed before FIAT, retarded lolberg.

>>55459651
The argument is that interest is not the source of corruption. That perfect systems did not exist in the past. That nobody will loan to anybody unless there is profit. That interest is the preferred method of profit, even for interest payers who would not like to give up a portion of their business to lenders instead. That everybody can be assumed to act in their own best interests.
>never loan to family
Is one example of this.
The fact you are posting as anon is another.
None of this is to say that our current system is not corrupt. It most certainly is. But not because of interest itself.

>>55459685
>They could simply sell the collateral and rebuy it back
yes, retard, that’s effectively what a loan is. I give you the title to my car and you give me $2k, and next week when I come back here with $2.1k I get the title back, and I can still drive the car in the meantime.
>who is holding the collateral in the event of contract failure and what is their incentive for holding?
the interest rate.
“Usury” doesn’t mean “any loan” it historically only meant loans with high interest rates (which also means unsecured loans as those have higher rates than secured ones).

>>55453097
As always autistic Greeks figured out good life before npcs, females and psychos ruined it again and again

>>55459721
>“Usury” doesn’t mean “any loan”
For the sake of this thread it clearly does.
Anons are arguing against all interest, except one who proposed caps.

>>55455538
You don't even know what usury is.

>>55453097
I used to think there was nothing inherently wrong with it, but now I see it the same way as a cigarette company or a soda company or a porn producer. It inherently takes advantage of people and harms people. The difference with usury is that is an action rather than a thing that can be consumed, and thus is more practical to actually ban. Probably shouldn't do this in a modern economy unless everyone agrees to do it internationally, but in general it would be better if it didn't exist.

>>55459760
yes and they are retarded. there is a huge difference between a situation where, if I can’t repay, I owe you nothing (you just keep the collateral I put up, so I essentially sold you that asset and then squandered the money) as opposed to unsecured debt I can’t repay in which I borrowed an amount I literally can’t afford to pay back and will suffer under the debt burden for years to come, such as with credit card debt, student loans, medical debt and other types of unsecured (and therefore HIGHLY speculative and unethical) loans.

>>55453097
Depends if its a central bank doing it or not. Non fed banks that aren't propped up by big govt would hypothetically actually find out if they fuck around too much.

>>55459159
Is the problem jews dragging society down or usurers dragging society down, or is it inevitable that jews will be usurers?

>>55459760
Big distinction. There's a theoretical basis for interest on the grounds of the time value of money. Both parties can make money off of a loan, and society would be set back on a system which only had savings, so what's wrong with loans qua loans?

They say "Interest is just like any other business".
I say show me any business where you are guaranteed a profit . In business there are risks involved, in usury there are none which is why it is such a popular industry. It attracts the absolute bottom of humanity.

>>55459926
>You may charge a foreigner interest, but not a fellow Israelite, so that the LORD your God may bless you in everything you put your hand to in the land you are entering to possess.

>>55459991
Okay, so is the problem interest or jews charging interest?

>>55460003
Both

>>55460037
What's the problem with interest itself?

>>55460075
read the thread.

>>55460096
I don't agree that interest is bad. What's the problem with interest?

>>55460100
The problem is that people like you are not sent to camps.

>>55459915
There is no allowance of nuance and any attempt to introduce it will result in ad hominems. Everything is in absolutes ITT.
You make good points about unsecured loans. That is where i see the most corruption. On both sides of the loans.
>>55459965
>so what's wrong with loans qua loans?
I don't have a problem with interest or loans. I'm trying to argue their necessity and dispel the idea that a society is incorruptable without them.

>>55455990
>>55455998
So the problem is jews not interest

>>55460187
>I'm trying to argue their necessity and dispel the idea that a society is incorruptable without them.
That is the most idiotic straw man i have seen in a while and i see quite a lot.

>>55460215
How is it a strawman?

>>55458229
Isn't this just an argument for a centrally planned economy?

>>55453298
>>55454341
The world is ruled by evil men, because only evil men desire to rule the world.

>>55454358
>BTC
> transactionally easy

>>55453266
remember, the first banks as we understand the term today were inside Sumerian temples

modern religion, modern finance and modern political divisions/hierarchical society all originated at the same time in the same place: babylon, 3300bc

>>55453298
based and correct post. we need a realigned incentive structure to reward pro-social behavior. personally i'm bullish on local currencies, web3 credit unions and DAO-type organizations tied to IRL communities for accomplishing these tasks

are you involved in/aware of the ReFi world at all friend? might be something worth checking out.

>>55460381
>might be something worth checking out.
Checking it out now. Better not be a shitcoin.

>>55455602
yknow people really should study the origins of our current economic system more. the modern central bank AND the modern corporation both originated in Amsterdam in the 1600s or so- the bank of Amsterdam and the Dutch East Indies company really prefigure our entire economic system in so many ways (as well as all the issues with it)

although the argument can be made that modern capitalism was actually born in the Venetian/Florentine financial/trading houses and they eventually transferred up through Germany, Hanseatic League to Amsterdam after political stuff got complicated in Italy and the rest of the Holy Roman Empire (see>>55453298, the pope having an elephant was nothing compared to the outright cartoonish corruption and degeneracy of the ruling dynasties)

>>55455617
it's so funny to me that Biden was the one who proposed the student loan debt being non-transferrable/dischargeable (essentially putting an entire generation and half of the next into debt slavery) and then they had the chutzpah to run him for president AND GET THE VERY PEOPLE (millennial retards) HE CONDEMNED TO PENURY TO VOTE FOR HIM ON THE BASIS OF DISCHARGING THAT STUDENT LOAN DEBT

really similar to how he's the one who created the whole 3 strikes you're out, gang laws, felonies for simple drug possession war on drugs legal framework that imprisoned millions and millions of young black men- and then he won the black vote on the basis of being some kind of civil rights leader! when he literally lied on camera about having attended civil rights marches! multiple times! he's a total fraud, compulsive liar psychopath!!

when you see the big picture, the only possible conclusion to draw is that the "people" in charge of this shitshow have a really, really fucked up sense of humor

>>55458425
it cracks me up how the entire petrodollar (ie the basis of the global system for the last half century) is based on Arab oil money being invested in US treasuries at interest

Kissinger is one twisted motherfucker i'll give him that much. people never mention that he's always just been a frontman for the Rockefellers though, at one point he was literally delivering typewritten reports about the activities of the Nixon white house to Nelson and Lawrence prior to the beginning of the full-scale illegal invasions of Laos and Cambodia (btw the Rockefellers Kissinger definitely planned/deliberately caused the cambodian genocide on purpose to study the effect on society btw, they knew exactly what they were doing. don't forget that Rockefellers were funding the USSR too, David Rockefeller's plane was the only western plane with clearance to land at any Soviet airport)

>>55459159
>humans are corrupt, you want a nobel prize for that revelation?
actually they already gave one to Elinor Ostrum for proving the opposite with her Pro-Social cooperative economics. competition is the law of the jungle, cooperation is the law of civilization.

David Graeber would have gotten one for the Dawn of Everything if they hadn't murdered him.


>>I always get to where I'm going by walking away from where I have been - Winnie the Pooh
wise words

>>55459593
>humans are not fundamentally good
you are committing a very common fallacy which is conflating the actions of a few powerful psychopaths with humans generally

humans generally are neither good nor bad but rather responsive to circumstances and environment. people, groups, communities, societies take on the characteristics of their leaders/governments. ergo, right now our system incentivizes psychopathic behavior because it is run by psychopaths. but saying that this is the only possible way it can be is retarded. it can be a lot of different ways.
>hurr durr things can never get better because of muh Human Nature
literally the retard's first 7th grade social studies argument, ignoring the fact that human nature is mutable and the result of culture

>>55459721
check out the concept of "good loans"
>Qard hassan
A loan extended on a goodwill basis, mainly for welfare purposes. The borrower needs only pay back the amount they borrowed, with no interest.
Qard al-hasan
A loan that is without collateral. Some Ulama deem it a form of interest-free loan that is extended by a lender to a borrower on the basis of benevolence.
Halal mortgages
Financial products designed to align with Islamic law for home ownership. They don't charge or pay interest, and repayments must follow Islamic principles. Also, they usually have a shared risk-reward structure between borrower and lender.
Halal loans
Loans that adhere to the principles of Sharia Law. Instead of interest, borrowers pay an origination fee set based on the amount borrowed. The fee is subtracted from the amount of the loan.

the world of sharia compliant finance is really cool, the hawala money transmitter system for example

>>55459970
Profits are not guaranteed to lenders. If the borrow doesn’t pay back the loan then the lender won’t be getting any interest, and in some cases might not get back the principle. Your post is as retarded as saying a retail store is “guaranteed” profits because they list their goods for sale at a higher price than they paid for them.

>>55460528
those cave-dwelling goatfuckers would still be living in 3rd world conditions (and most are) if not for the dumb luck of living on top of huge oil reserves. the “lessons” of their pedophile cult leader are irrelevant to me. I have been clear: interest is not unethical, unsecured loans are unethical. if you lend someone an amount of money that they literally can repay (either by paying you back or giving up the collateral) that is ethical. if you lend someone an amount of money they cannot repay, that is predatory.
I haven’t seen anyone mention itt that inflation plays a role here as well. If I borrow $1 million 2010 dollars and I will owe you back $1.5 million 2020 dollars, but inflation is such that $1.5 million in 2020 is equivalent to just $900k 2010 dollars, then I will literally pay back less than I borrowed, even if the interest rate was 10% or whatever. so that’s another reason I don’t think interest is the problem. The real harm is people owe more than they can afford to pay, which literally cannot happen with a collateralized loan.

>>55453097
What's wrong with it? Credit is needed for efficient capital expenditures. Credit does not get extended without interest.

>>55460546
Oh please. You really think they will incur any losses if someone fails to pay?
No, a retail store is not a valid comparison because you have so many other factors to consider. Rent, traffic, price of goods und so weiter. If someone fails to pay a loan they will only get a bigger loan as a result or in the worst case become bankrupt, but the lender will of couse be covered by insurance. The house always wins. Stop pretending that these faggots provide a service to society.

>>55460606
>those cave-dwelling goatfuckers would still be living in 3rd world conditions (and most are) if not for the dumb luck of living on top of huge oil reserves.
That is more than what can be said for the state of Israel as the entire nation is nothing but a huge drain on the western world and would be nothing with out it.

>>55460635
>You really think they will incur any losses if someone fails to pay?
banks and lending businesses are still businesses and they can make or lose money. if it were literally impossible for them to lose money, banks would be the most valuable companies in the stock market.
>>55460642
on this we agree. #openbordersforisrael

>>55460663
>banks would be the most valuable companies in the stock market.
I would like to purchase some federal reserve stock please.

>>55459406
I really don't think so. Prices and rates need to be adjusted by the market forces. Gov and monopolies (and oligopolies) destroy these forces or manipulate the too much.

You are right thought that international benefitors will fight against any other system that leaves them with less money or power.

>>55460663
Yes, Israel should really be more welcoming. :(

>>55460671
Federal reserve prints money to bail out banks so you're sort of right, but the dollar takes a hit when it does, which is a cost absorbed by the underclass since the bailout isn't distributed to them. The existence of financial crises is proof banks take losses but the bailouts are proof the system is rigged to favor the banks.
So is the problem jews or banks? Could a First National Socialist Bank of Germany work? Does an economy have to be centralized for effective application of liquidity to occur? If not, what is an alternative to interest?

>>55460671
C - Citigroup

>>55460823
Actually printing is the wrong word. Government is lending money which tax payer has to return 3 fold to give it to rich people who lost their high risk bets

>>55461095
E.g. Rich people giving government x to get from gov x + 3 x back. That's the game we are playing rn.

>>55453097
AI should kinda be illegal don't you think?
>Makes artists irrelevant
>Hugely profitable (just look at shibart)
>Developing at breakneck speed
I think we should stop this before it gets out of hand
or just profit from it kek

>>55458590
>The authority itself being the main point of failure
Yes.
>and not the system they have authority over.
No. Manipulation money is the primary/sole means that statists have in the post-industrial to influence the economy, PoW crypto provides a technical fix for this political problem.

>>55461608
What i mean is that the authority will corrupt any system they have authority over.
If they had authority over the PoW systems then the PoW system would be corrupted to their benefit.

"Usury" shouldn't be illegal. But consumer loans can be regulated, loans where the proceeds are for non-productive consumption. I'm a libertarian so I don't think the government has any interest to tell a borrower what they can or cannot use loan money for, but saying consumer loans are predatory is at least a rational argument.

Saying all lending is bad because muh interest is just brain dead retarded. It improves capital allocation, IF the government isn't manipulating interest rates lower. In fact the issue we've had in the past 10 years in the US is the opposite of usury, too low interest rates.

Go look at mudslime countries with their idiotic workarounds for "ursury," they've constructed the same financial instruments, except MORE in the LENDER's favor. Instead of loaning someone money, they just consider the lender owning anything the borrower buys, its way worse for borrowers because the lenders essentially own everything they produce. They make it less about economic transactions where each party is on an equal level, and like a feudal system.

>>55458600
XLM is a shitcoin. PoW crypto is money, which makes BTC OG money, XMR and old chains also have value but nothing will flip BTC without eclipsing it in cumulative hash power. The limits of BTC can either be solved with soft forks/companion chains

>>55458758
As an ongoing concern, obviously.

>>55459713
As I said, usury isn't a problem. Lending hard money recklessly will cause you to blow up, usury, absent debasement, is self correcting in-the-limit

Fiat is usury on crack

>>55460368
>b-but it costs A COUPLE OF BUCKS to send billions across the world in minutes!
You're a retard. Gold (actual) hasn't been in common use since the 1500s, replaced by gold scrip which given that it could be corrupted was. BTC (i.e. PoW crypto) solves money.

>>55462171
People allowed to take loans and go on financing for consumer products for le newest Iphone that produces marginally better results than the last deserve to be hanged

>>55460410
>economic system
No. Such. Thing.

Do you think scheming capitalists snuck into the USSR and setup a shadow Economic System to run the USSR's black market? Politics is memeshit. Economy is an emergent property of people. Economy already killed communism, and it's fatally wounded State even WITHOUT Money™, imagine what the future holds! Take your head out of your ass and start thinking 5th dimensionally. Why didn't we fix money in the past? Because the Fix had yet to be invented!

>>55460546
Oops TOO BIG TO FAIL

>>55462874
>BTC (i.e. PoW crypto) solves money
how? it's a piece of shit

>>55461629
They have little real power, that's my point, they are capable of manipulating money only because most people don't pay attention to money as a thing, they can no more ban crypto than they could ban cryptography or the internet or the printing press. A technical fix for a political problem is the way, as it sidesteps all of politics

>>55462947
I can not walk the path for you, I can only show you the way: >>55454358

>>55462943
Wouldn't it be grand if corrupt politicians couldn't just shit out money?

>>55462928
your arguments lack internal coherence. rather, you make historical events conform to your chosen worldview. it will be painful for you psychologically when you are proven wrong.

>do you think scheming capitalists snuck into the USSR and set up an economic system
i think scheming zionist bankers set up the USSR as a foil to their central banking system as they rolled it out and every organized communist movement has always been controlled opposition controlled and funded by those same bankers (who also own all politicians), yes
>>55462947
proof of work will not fare well in the era of carbon neutrality.

>>55463749
>your arguments lack internal coherence.
False.
>rather, you make historical events conform to your chosen worldview
Hahahahahahhahahahaha You claim the 70 years of USSR and it's pathetic collapse was "part of da plan" but MY worldview is revisionist? Begone statist.

>>55453097
>Another eceleb larping as a Roman philosopher from the medieval ages

>>55458338
Imo central authority need not apply here.
Loans can all be done privately between institutions people trust with loans (commercial banks), or even privately among individuals.

Maybe your parents or best friend would give you a no-interest loan when you're in a bind, and maybe you'd do the same for them. But what about funding projects for which you simply don't have the capital, but you are confident of success?
For what reason would you expect a stranger to give a loan if not for a small return on their investment (interest)?
Charity?

>>55453111
Exile is what got us here. We should have killed them and earth would be heaven

>>55455575
Midwit retard. Don't ever say that shit again and please kill yourself

>>55460166
Kek

>I SHOULD BE ENTITLED TO BORROW YOUR MONEY WHEN I WANT, TO NO GAIN DESPITE THE INCONVENIENCE FOR YOU!
Communist task force arrived today I see.
Protip: borrowing money without interests will only make losers spend it away, instead of being pressured to invest it.
It's literally "give a man to fish" saying.

>>55467120
this is part of the interest rate fallacy. people think (because tptb tell them so) that low interest rates cause economic growth and high interest rates slow it, but history and common sense both show that is not true. it’s the opposite: high interest rates are inflationary and fuel growth while low interest rates are deflationary and depressionary (not a word but you know what I mean).

Ramp up interest to 8% over the next 3 years and the zombies can finally be purged with investors having to do research and actually take risk instead of just betting on number go up because neo marxists and Keynesian as mmt cancer make it irrational to produce and consume, as retail and business

>>55468992
This is the stupidest thing I ever read, and I browsed /b/ in 2012

>>55469925
from the perspective of lenders:
why would I lend to a business at 2% interest and risk them not paying me back when I could buy US treasuries for 1%? on the other hand, if the interest rate was 10% and bonds were paying 5% I would be much more incentivized to lend, because the buyers of money are offering me a higher price.
from the perspective of borrowers:
if interest rates are low then first of all banks aren’t going be interested in lending for a risky investment, so I’m more likely to get a low interest loan to just buy a rundown old building and just sit on it collecting 3% yield and paying 2 of that back to the bank or whatever. whereas if I owe the bank 10% interest on the loan then I had better renovate the building I buy so I can charge more rent, or otherwise invest the borrowed money in more of a growth opportunity.
so higher interest rates incentivize lenders to lend, and to lend to higher risk investments, and also incentivize borrowers to make riskier investments. lower rates disincentivize risk taking and depress growth. the guy who came up with the interest rate fallacy back in the 20th century won a nobel prize in economics, but everybody still pretends (falsely) that it’s the other way around.

>>55453097
>yet places like the UAE do just fine despite this
thats because they have legal loopholes that allow it

>>55458229
you're going to kill borrowers?

>>55468992
>>55469925
retards don't realize that the entire history of the world is just rich people extending credit at low interest rates and then tightening credit/increasing interest rates until they cause a crash with a *totally unforeseen* war/famine/disaster so they can centralize power and control and buy up more assets on the cheap

this next one's going to be the big one btw

>>55471928
>this next one's going to be the big one btw
this time will be different? kek

>>55453097
Why would anyone lend anything without interest? He has nothing to gain but lose if he does it without interest.

>>55471928
weak, blackpilled mindset. get rich or die trying, anon.

>>55470088
If the interests were high and you would approach the consultant at the bank with the idea of just buying a rundown building you would most likely not get the loan in the first place.
>High interest
>(((Growth)))
Ah yes a retard
>Noble price
A true retard

>>55477430
>you would most likely not get the loan in the first place
yes that’s my point. you would have to do something more productive with the money, like tear down and rebuild (or at least remodel) the existing building and build a better one so you could charge more rent, because you owe the bank a lot of interest. on the other hand, when rates are low, you could get a loan to just buy a rundown old building at sit on it, and still make the payments. so low interest rates provide less incentive to both lenders and borrowers to engage in activities that lead to growth. in the old building example, the borrower hires zero construction workers and spends zero dollars on materials, etc. he just buys the building and rents it out as is. with a higher rate, the borrower is going to hire people and renovate or build a whole new building. that’s economic growth, incentivized by higher rates, not lower ones.
ask yourself if you want to believe what academic economists, the federal reserve, and the corporate financial press tell you about how the economy works, or if they might be wrong/lying and it actually works differently. because high interest rates=low growth is what (((they))) say every time they get in front of a camera.

>>55477885
>you could get a loan to just buy a rundown old building at sit on it, and still make the payments
No. Unless you are also working a regular job in which case your investment would hardly be an investment and more of being a retarded gambler that works for the bank indirectly. Which is a great deal for the bank but a retarded deal for you

>>55478014
when I say sit on it I mean rent it out as is rather than renovating it or tearing it down and building a new building on the land. I don’t mean literally leaving it empty and not collecting rent, I thought that was obvious.

>>55478180
So you are going to pay for maintenance, property tax, comply with all the other regulatory costs AND are going to get junky tenants that break everything in your "investment", are going to be deliquent on rent, produce court costs and have a turn over rate that is higher than every indian call center. Tell me you have no freaking idea what the fuck you are talking about without telling me you have no fucking idea what you are talking about. Get a real job kid or better just kill yourself

>>55458823
thats not usury retard. If the extra price is agreed upon then it cant snowball into insane debt like an interest rate would. Thats the proper way to charge for lending not fucking kike schemes on student loans where you pay in it for 10 years only to to still have more debt than you started. Imagine how easy paying back student loans would be if the gov said borrow 100k pay back 120k.

>>55478250
being a landlord comes with costs. what does that have to do with what we’ve been talking about with regards to interest rates and the effect on economic growth?

>>55453097
Debt allows for innovation. It would be much harder to start with just an idea and build a business on it without the ability to borrow

>>55453097
yes, punishable by death