/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>55177090
https://youtu.be/4-cB1Z9qceI

>>55177090
>be sugar farmer
>want new car
>go to car dealership with two truckloads of sugar to pay the dealership
>they dont want sugar
>im ruined.jpg
>mfw
Money was created to be the universal form of exchange so that we don't have to trade sugar for a car

That's actually antisemitic, reported you to the ADL

>>55177090
idk not a financial or economics expert but i do have an MBA and thought about this a lot. The best explanation I've heard is that money is essentially tokenized representation of violence. It allows transactions of value via the shared agreement of power of the state to kill you for disagreeing. This saves the actual violence required for personal matters

>>55177133
Sure, but where does that money come from? In the old days we used gold and silver as the generally recognized medium of exchange, now its just paper from thin air that allows the ones who control to directly manipulate and fuck with everything.

Aside from that, how does the money enter the equation in the first place? It takes time and effort to grow the sugar, and likewise time and effort to mine the gold. Doe money require that the value of all object be represented in a parallel reality of gold?

Also if you live in a region with "low liquidity" like a 3rd world countryside or a ghetto, how are you supposed to join the game? I guess you'd have to produce shit and sell it for money but how can you do that if all raw material is already owned, or if no one around you has the money to higher you as an employee

>>55177178
I like money as tokenized violence.
Time=Money=violence=power

Money (either paper fiat or precious metal coins) is the death of bartering and personal responsibility. Before you could haggle to demand fair prices. My three chickens for your goat. But the introduction of hard currency kills haggling. The price becomes what the (((seller))) thinks it should be, not the free market. Fuck money faggots.

>>55177373
Money comes from Debt and Debt is what creates Money.
First came the Debt and then came the Money.

see in this example >>55177133 I could get the car by giving the car dealer an IOU that he can exchange for this amount of sugar.
the car dealer now can use this IOU for further trades, like he buys something else and pays with the IOUs instead with his cars.
As long as that Sugar Debt is not resolved they can use these IOUs for trades.
This debt is recorded on a Ledger to keep track of who owes what and how much.
Debt is literally what the entire universe is build upon, some sort of natural law.

>>55177424
How do you revive a local economy if there are not these universally recognized IOUs floating around to snatch out of the air? Like in america where almost everything is service based, it seems like its not possible for an economically depressed region to crawl out of its situation without external intervention. Like, you are locked out of the greater economy if you cant find someone to trade with who is already "plugged in" to the central satanic system. All of these cushy upper middle class finance and tech startup jobs are not really creating that much value for society, its just that they are fewer degrees of separation away from the Baalian money fountain. Similar to how an NY accounant can make $80k when the same work pays $15k in India. Or living in Appalachia, you can make some homemade trinkets or start a homecleaning service, but unless you have some priveled yuppies to sell your services to, you wont be able to pull yourself out of poverty. Not sure if Im articulating my point well.

There seems to be something happening to money now where the same work is worth less, and we're all trying to play catchup to a goal that's continuously receding, certain items are inflated beyond reach like housing. Idk

I store my wealth in vintage drum machine clones

>>55177090
Money/fiat is fine, it is a tool for easy transaction of value. The problems we have with money are entirely from the people (kikes) that control our monetary system.

>>55177090
>Can someone explain what money is
(1) means of payment
(2) unit of account
(3) means of settling debts
(4) store of value
Source: Where Does Money Come From?: A Guide to the UK Monetary & Banking System

>and where it comes from?
Babylonia, ibid.
>Can a country take control of its destiny without money?
No.
>Like through labor alone?
No.
>just seems that so much economic suffering could be caused by greater coordination and everday problem solving vs abiding by this unjust system of exchange
True.

did you know that the ten year yield is basically a gauge of how expensive money is? real talk

>>55177090
All you have to do is sit in an office and you can have endlessbfood/entertainment/transportation that puts ancient kings to shame

>>55178497
I do and i do, but it took a long time and theres not enough of these jobs for everyone. There is heavy pressure to offshore and automate to ensure the money does not reach our hands, who knows how much longer this job will be viable. I still cant afford rent in my city unless i get roommates, and with the pace of inflation its unclear if i will ever be able to invest in real assets and escape the goyfarm

>>55177090
The bitcoin standard by saifedean ammous

The mystery of banking
Power & Market (government & the economy)
Man, Economy, & State
What has government done to our money
All by Murray Rothbard

These books are all someone needs to understand the scam fiat and fractional reserve are.

>>55177373
Some will say that you are mixing currency and money. Money being a medium of exchange that still retains value on its own, while currency is just proof of wealth.

Money appears spontaneously as people in a specific community find out which goods will be accepted in an exchange with the most people they want to trade with, so they'll start acquiring that particular commodity themselves so that they are more flexible to buy stuff. In the Pannonian plain thousands of years ago it was mink and weasel skins, in early colonial US it was tobacco, in most prisons it's cigarettes. But with time most societies will find out precious metals are the best and accepted across all cultures.

The paper money emerged as people felt unsafe or uncomfortable dragging along a big heavy bag of gold and silver, so once banking became popular enough, most people actually preferred trading pieces of paper (currency) that proved they own money (gold) in the bank. But then the grabblers who ran the banks realized that since nobody is actually checking out the silver and gold in the vaults and instead just traded these IOUs, they could secretly sell the precious metals of their clients for their own gains. And that's where we are now.

>>55177680
You already know what you need to do anon. Start stockpiling weapons and giving classes in marxest theory out of abandoned factories. It's the only way.

>>55178329
unironically inflationproof

>>55179824
Based books

>>55179824
rothbard was a banker and wrote libertarian books? I need to check this dude out

>>55177373
Money is the value accorded to any arbitrary token. Monopoly money is money in relation to the game of monopoly, gold is money in an economy where gold is seen as money, large stones are money where large stones are seen as money, bonds are money if they're monetized, etc. It is the encoded expectation that "someone will give me something for this".

>>55178329
Then you either must not have much wealth or care so little for it to preserve it by such means, Behringer clones being the very bottom of the barrel in terms of value or quality. I can immediately think of two clones more worthy of purchase, the Yocto 808 and the Dinsync Re-808, but really if wealth preservation is the idea then nothing short of mint originals should do.

>>55177680
>There seems to be something happening to money now where the same work is worth less, and we're all trying to play catchup to a goal that's continuously receding, certain items are inflated beyond reach like housing. Idk
That's a larger dysfunction and not something to do with money, per se, though money is corrupted by the underlying psychology of market participants. The nominal amounts do not matter, really, it doesn't matter whether you have 50 bingbongs or 500,000,000; it's all made up. What is decreasing is the purchasing power of money, so in effect, people can't afford things because they've received so many pay-cuts. This is induced by people not being willing to sell their houses for anything but crippling amounts. They all fellate themselves to the thought of their "house being worth so much". This has the effect of the income of people having less purchasing power: that is, the refusal to sell cuts people's effective pay (a very indirect and not immediately obvious effect, but if there were a fixed amount of money and home-owners could confiscate it and hold it in escrow at will, the outcomes would be the same). Housing is seen as an investment, but how it works is like a bond: under the assumption that younger people will need houses, people buy them up in advance, expecting a portion of the income of the young to go towards having to buy them later; if, say, the average income were to rise to $500,000 (non-inflationary), then they'd expect 10 years' worth of that via selling the house. Since the market is competitive, houses will not be sold for "below-market" rates (i.e. at a level that is crippling but still affordable, if with great difficulty). In a sense, they're trying to holding the future hostage. A fool's errand in the final consequence, because they not only thereby destroy the future (since the economy goes to shit due to demographic collapse as the home-less don't have kids), and are also geriatrics from whom they can be seized.

>>55181581
Its not just boomers, its all the millions of browns theyre letting it not only inflating house prices but rental prices, plus flooding the unskilled labor market. And its not just the boomer buying up the houses, its the people who have access to the cheapest money, the people who are few degrees of separation away from the molochian money tree, who send tidal waves of fake money into the market, that washes away and erodes the wealth of the people. Not to mention opportunists who sell land to foreigners

>>55182534
While I would disagree with the "oogie-boogie" aspect of the term "molochian", your description is accurate in the sense that they are financially "sacrificing their children". This is independent of anyone doing any sort of oogie-boogie ritual or literally believing in "Moloch". All they need to "believe in" is greed, and all they need to be is blind to the consequences of their own actions.

>>55182573
>sacrificing their children
Its not their children though, its not the boomers its the banks who fucked everything up via lending and direct investing, and the politicians who think immigration and inflation is always good. The political financial class are thoroughly isolated from the consequences of their actions, and thoroughly aware. They just literally hate you

>>55182655
It's a corrupt bargain too, but the boomers also did take it. It's not that they're consciously wholly evil, but it's easy to just "get with the program" when someone promises you the financial perpetuum mobile. Nobody really asks why housing should continually go up, if you'll notice.

Money is created when banks give out (((loans))). The money does not actually come from the banks reserves or anything like that, but is literally created out of thin air. They put in +$100 dollars into your account and create an entry on their end with -$100. Money has value because lots of people have to pay back what they owe in the currency they took out a loan in. Even worse, there's not actually enough money to pay back all those loans because they all come with interest so to pay back what you owe plus tip you need another sucker taking out a loan and somehow take his money to give it to the bank. Rinse and repeat. This is literally a ponzi scheme and hence 109 countries.

>>55177090
Money is a shared collective delusion of value in order to necessitate trade. It is valuable because we believe it to be so. This applies regardless of the medium, whether fiat cash, gold, salt or tulip bulbs. Faith = value.

>>55182971
That's not true for commodities that are useful in the economy. Silver is valuable because it's quite useful for a wide range of industrial applications. There is no faith involved other than the expectation that industry will keep needing silver and they will unless we go back to the stone age.

>>55177680
>There seems to be something happening to money now
now? rapid debasement of currency has been around before you were born. you only began to care once the slave notes you transact in has started to devalue at a faster rate than you were normally accustomed to. gold has always been money. gold itself. not anything backed by gold, which is a promissory scam.

>>55177133
>what is gold

Money is jewish trick to create fictional debts and spread usury

>>55182999
I'm inclined to concede that point, in that some commodities have useful applications, such as gold and silver. They are both extremely useful from a material science perspective, however they have been considered valuable for far longer than these uses have been made known, and the prices for them are likely artificially inflated simply because so many people have the long held faith that gold and silver are valuable.

>>55183055
Gold and silver prices are actually being suppressed, rather than inflated. They're doing that to discourage people from buying into it and to hide the decline of the dollar's purchasing power.

In islam, beyond usury being haram, even those who keep track of and "write down" the loan are considered complicit im the usury. Meaning If you are an accountant who deals with interest and loans, or work on collections, your job is 100% haram and an affront to Allah SWT

>>55178329
Kek I have one of these there are better synths to retain value but they do seem to hold a pricepoint harder than as fast as the US gov prints and debases

>>55183055
What you're describing is the monetary premium. Gold and silver do have it, but they only have a little of it since the monetary premium is being suppressed. So yes, they are "inflated" in the sense that they do get accorded which they wouldn't have if they were seen as just metals, but they are, at the same time, being suppressed.

>pepe
>commie drivel

Lurk 10 more years and tell your handlers they are retarded

>>55183183
No u

>>55183046
Fucking retard gold can be considered money. Seashells can be money. Youre referring to fiat currency. Read a book you fucking nigger monkey.

>>55177389
You can haggle with money retard. You can also barter with goods and money at the same time. I do this all the time. You have more of a problem with corporatism than anything it sounds like.

>>55183021
>no one has ever debased coins made of precious metals before, plated lead in gold to scam, etc.

Money comes from the government.

>Markets are created and maintained by sovereigns.
>Money is used first of all for internal bureaucratic accounting in the ancient empires.
>Money is then used to pay soldiers in the imperial army, and markets are created in order to enable soldiers to spend that money.
>The accepted currency is whatever is accepted by the sovereign for the payment of taxes.
>Debt is monetized (beyond the gift economy) when standardized payments for injuries are necessary in order to prevent violence—the sovereign as judge establishes standardized penalties and settlements. In other words, the introduction of money into the sovereign order coincides with a system of hostage taking overseen by the sovereign: human beings are exchanged in one way or another.
>Money and markets therefore accelerate that system, abstracting individuals from their social relations, enhancing the power of the sovereign, while generating new power bases that might destabilize power.

>What sustains the value of any currency, in that case, is the stability and reliability of the sovereign issuing and approving it. Rather than labor or subjective desire, currency reflects the “value” of sovereign security. If the sovereign will accept a certain amount of money to settle your tax bill, and maintains an orderly circulation of money, the value of money will reflect that.
http://gablog.cdh.ucla.edu/2017/08/absolutist-economies/
The rest of the article is a cool read but irrelevant to the subject. The few lines I've posted here are all you need to know about money.

For a further discussion of accounting and the chartalist theory of money, see Michael Hudson:
https://www.imtfi.uci.edu/files/docs/2013/hudson.pdf

Randall Wray:
https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=69409
https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1010334

Disclaimer: I am NOT a proponent of "Modern Monetary Theory" like Wray is.

>>55177424
>Debt is literally what the entire universe is build upon, some sort of natural law.
it's important to understand that for every debtor there is always a creditor, and being the creditor is as much of a sin as being the debtor. that's why there's such a big emphasis on forgiveness in religion, especially Christianity (the true catholic religion).

Money is time
The other way around is jewish

bump

>>55177424
>Money comes from Debt and Debt is what creates Money.
>First came the Debt and then came the Money.

Fairly close. Farmers in Mesopotamia took out loans for example 10 bags of grain before the season and had to pay back 11 bags after. Later money was invented and bookkeeping and insurance and limited liability companies and fractional banking. It all stems from debt. And debt is just a promise to do something in the future, a promise to pay back.

>>55177373
Jew
>>55183798
Not a jew

>>55184894
Retard

>>55184904
Jew's mad

>>55183732
>especially Christianity (the true catholic religion).

>>55177090
> It just seems that so much economic suffering could be caused by greater coordination and everday problem solving
This is a statement that’s correct on paper but fails time and time again in practise. Their is no alternative, TINA.

>>55183732
> Christianity (the true catholic religion).
Anon I…

>>55185004
>Bond market crashes because a bunch of sandniggers, mestizos and vodka slurpers decide your shitcoin isnt good enough anymore to trade dinosaur blood
you are so fucked

>>55185004
This is misleading. Does this only take into account nominal income? Because im pretty sure you have an easier time affording housing, rent, food, etc in the phillipines than in the US

>>55182534
I just don’t understand the arrogant confidence in poor people who have clearly never taken a economics course, or even did that well at High School social studies.

>>55185036
No, Purchasing power parity is still higher in the West. Also at anytime any Westerner can move to a “real country” and be a king but they don’t. All those “real economies” have net migration West. Buzzfeed makes a lot of money, and that money can buy cars. No difference between buzzfeed and a car manufacturer at the end of the day.

read this
https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/quarterly-bulletin/2014/q1/money-creation-in-the-modern-economy

>>55185076
This is only true to the extent that people in the "walled world" are not living hand to mouth, which the vast majority of them are. Also check out statistics regarding wealth or land ownership, i remember reading for example that average greek holds more wealth (mostly inherited land) than western european. Even in the west there are purchase power disparitues. As has been mentuoned earlier in the thread, those actors which are fewer degrees of separation from the luciferian fiat-cauldrons will have more economic power

>>55185150
No. Remember, at any time any Westerner can move anywhere. There are very few nations that won’t take them. Despite that, not only do they rarely emigrate, but everyone from everywhere wants to immigrate West. Why would that be unless they knew their best life was in the west? It’s actually incredibly comfy here, and this hand to mouth narrative is just shill rage bait.

>>55185150
Also your Greek fact is incorrect, as is most of what your saying.

>>55177133
Why do you need a car when you already have two trucks? Hell, when and how did the farmer get the trucks prior to this scenario?

http://www.balderexlibris.com/index.php?post/G_d-How-the-jews-betrayed-mankind-Volume-1-The-sumerian-swindle


Read this, it will change your entire understanding of everything

>>55180234
One of the best, simplified descriptions I have seen. Obviously it cuts off early but you could go on for ages I guess.

>>55185215
I was getting my facts mixed up - home ownership rate in greece is 73% vs 49% in germany

>>55183055
>the prices for them are likely artificially inflated simply because so many people have the long held faith that gold and silver are valuable.
That depends whether you believe all that gold and silver traded on fiat exchanges actually exists. Do you think the COMEX has as much silver sitting around their vaults as they let trade on the market?
>>55182967
Another good post imo.

>>55177090
Money helped primarily to mediate exchanges with strangers and foreigners. In city-state Italy goods were exchanged based on social relations

>>55177178
You are close to the truth. This video is from the 90s but it is as relevant now as ever:
https://youtu.be/NGhh0SQlAKY

>>55185296
You get more goy tokens in the west, but you dont get to keep them. You can never retire ro the stability of your comfy intergenerational family estate to tend your olive grove. You have to keep punching your time card every morning and pay your taxes plus tip

Also, if you have a low attention span, this video explains it well in a short amount of time:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ah2tbJg9_MI

>>55184970
>guys the Vatican's been infiltrated by Satanists for the 87th time in history
>this means you need to either become a pagan that worships gods that suck dick and crossdress, or a heckin' rational atheist whose ideology is directly responsible for trans kids

>>55185348
Thanks this is bretty good

>>55185426
No, it mans you shouldn't support an obviously compromised institution. You can still worship God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit according to what the bible teaches.

>>55185094
thank you, very good llink

>>55185348
Can somebody deboonk this please

>>55185801
Such a gay video for the uneducated. The math doesn’t lie. Pinkerton wrote a book about how we are the unappreciative spoiled children of history. Here’s the proof in a easy NY post article that summarizes the book.

https://nypost.com/2018/03/03/9-charts-that-prove-theres-never-been-a-better-time-to-be-alive/

>>55177090

This is just my opinion, but money is literally just any intermediary used in a transaction. It can be credit/debt, pieces of cloth/paper, gold/silver coins, crystals/minerals, foods, energy, crypto, seashells, animals, or people.

>>55185882
This nigga clowin

>>55177119
> Suspend temporarily
> 1971
Whew

>>55185501
no you can't. Jesus established a living Church. The institution can't compromised. The clergy may be filled with sinners, but the Church remains Holy.

>>55185199
this
anyone who seriously believes people in the first world have it hard just has no idea what they're talking about
people with college degrees move to the USA to be car mechanics and never look back

>>55177090
My dear goy, please don't concern yourself with anti-Semitic questions like that. Instead of asking where the carrot on the stick in front of you comes from just try to catch the carrot. You'll get it some day trust me bro.

>>55185241
>Frederick Gary Allen[1] (August 2, 1936 – November 29, 1986) was an American conservative writer[2] and conspiracy theorist.[3][4]
>Allen promoted the notion that international banking and politics control domestic decisions, taking them out of elected officials' hands.[2]
gee, this guy is a total lunatic!

>>55186758
Prove that "Church" has to be whatever Catholicism is.

>>55177119
This seems perfectly reasonable and responsible actually.

>>55186894
Matthew 16:18
And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it

>>55187080
Doesn't say anything about Catholicism in particular. Peter wasn't Catholic as far as I know.

>>55177090
Without money you would be actually enslaved by some other people and killed randomly just because, think a little bit

>>55177090
money comes from jew eggs

https://www.brighteon.com/f97089e5-dac9-447e-8bf3-6ea1ef28dbae

The debts have been FORGIVEN

>>55177389
>The price becomes what the (((seller))) thinks it should be, not the free market
Sounds like you don't know how to haggle. Skill issue.

>>55185801
the fed wasn't just a tool to take money from the average person via inflation, it was a means to control other banks by setting the price of credit to control inflation itself. The fed gave the government the power to control how cold or hot the economy runs to tackle economic downturns and overheated bubbles.

>>55187096
All the apostles were catholics. Peter was the first Pope

>>55185882
>there's never ben a better time to be alive
Literally anywhere in the USA between 1848 and 1965

>>55187451

>>55177090
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money_creation

do you ever think about what implies a "strong economy", especially globally, and how it benefits anyone at all? and why it's so important?
the results may blow your mind

>>55188620
You need to stop posting and go back

>>55188626
go back to where people think?

Read David Graeber's DEBT: THE FIRST 5,000 YEARS

Indeed indeed! Not 'money' tho only counterfeit money! Remember that MOST of the public debt is from social spending, and that social spending acts as a labor supply, suppressing the market rate of labor (labor in the broadest sense, "wages and salaries") by reducing the cost of substance (driving down wages and salaries well up the chain). Debt that is printed into existence, the rank debasement of fiat in the last half century! Gee why are the rich getting richer? They've rigged a system where inflation doesn't inflate wages! But there is a way out, stop using counterfeit money. It's that simple. BTC/XMR is real money. In concert they're a workable global currency.
>t-they'll ban it!
Can't. Economic Calculation Problem isn't "commies suck" it's "central planning does not can not work", they didn't ban the internet because they can't, they didn't ban crypto because they can't. The State/oligarchs main means of control stems through Fed funny money, they can't meaningfully control the economy, only influence it through fiat fuckery. Reduce your dependence on fiat, reduce their power. BTC/XMR kills the Fed.

>>55183070
Islam is so anti-semitic