/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>54961304
>back to gold
>CBDC
>back to gold
Anon...

>>54961304
How does anyone know it's actually backed by gold?

>>54961304
They should just nationalize all gold mines, and mine a lot, and then use the gold to back their currency digital or not.

>>54961316
Once the world currencies re-adjust to a new standard, what do you think is going to be the measuring stick that decides who gets bumped to the front? Gold ;)
Do me a favour and look up how much gold the USA has vs China
The USA is running on thin ice,and its fake economy of giga-printing and bullshit jobs like e-celebs and "influencers" is coming to an end

>>54961304
>The move was criticized by the International Monetary Fund, which urged the government to rather liberalize its foreign-exchange rate than risk depleting its reserves.
The IMF is delusion central. Zimbabwe already has no money and it can't have one, because nobody wants to own Zimbabwean dollars. A liberalized exchange rate would see any Zimbabwean currency quickly go to 0 against others currencies. What deceives them, in fairness, is that they're right: a Zimbabwean currency backed by gold just results in people taking the gold out of the country via the currency, so it's an exercise in losing 140kg of gold.

>>54961338
>Once the world currencies re-adjust to a new standard, what do you think is going to be the measuring stick that decides who gets bumped to the front?
The world elites already know who gets bumped to the front - them. Plebs are going to become slaves, no matter how much gold they hoard.

>>54961357
>What deceives them, in fairness, is that they're right: a Zimbabwean currency backed by gold just results in people taking the gold out of the country via the currency, so it's an exercise in losing 140kg of gold.
which is exactly what they're saying aren't they?

>>54961371
Yes, that's what deceives them. They are saying a correct thing, so they think they "are right", which they are, but there's a difference between "being right" and "being right about everything". Having correctly identified one problem, they propose a non-working solution, i.e. floating exchange rates. It's like Marx who correctly identified problems with capitalism but then, when trying to propose his own solution, (to him, invisibly) abandoned the attempt to work it out and just said, paraphrased, "it will be good". What happened is that he saw the goal but because he didn't see the means, he thought means weren't required, or that any means would do. As a result of Bolsheviks getting into power in 1917 and trying to realize this goal ("from each according to his ability, to each according to his need") without any material plan to do so, so they naturally defaulted to the "natural" means available in Russia, which was tyranny.
Likewise, the IMF, having correctly identified a problem with gold-backed national currencies, see the goal of "currencies should adjust to trade balances", but see no means to get there, thus they think any means will do, which makes them advocate for floating exchange rates, which makes them default to the default means available in the 1st world, which is greed.
As a result, they give loans to these countries (since you "need an ROI"), which they cannot possibly repay. The flood of money is bad enough, but even if it were used productively, the resultant economic growth would be hamstrung by having to make loan repayments. Zimbabwe - and I'm not saying that it's a worthless country - is so weak that it can only be uplifted by charity, to be clear. Nobody is ever getting any monetary value out of there via investing, and insofar as it trades financial assets, it gets taken to the cleaners.

>>54961434
The best way to help a country like this is to go around and ask people what they need (since any monetary grants are at risk of being invested into sports stadia and villas, or at least misallocated by local governments, even IF the intentions are good).
The reason truly weak countries can't have their own currency is that currency is a trust-based system, and nobody has any trust in an economy like Zimbabwe's - and, just factually speaking: justifiably so. If they have paper, nobody wants the paper. If they need debt, people will try to suck them dry via the interest payments, since they already expect them to default on the principal. If they have gold, people take the gold and run. The IMF cannot, almost mathematically cannot, make this work, but admitting that would require the IMF to admit its own inadequacy for the task, and that's not something we like to do, do we? "Better come up with SOME bullshit. It's the same bullshit that didn't work all the previous times, but it's the best bullshit we have", goes the thought process, though of course they don't call their bullshit "bullshit", that'd be a bit too one the nose, but "solutions".

>>54961449
Hence hyperinflation.

>>54961335
They don't. It has the same flaw as paper money. Gold is for filling teeth or making a necklace. It's not a currency.

>>54961463
It's not very liquid across distances, but it's pretty good for trading on a local level, which is why it was used historically. It only fell out of favor once commerce accelerated more than the means of transporting gold did.

>>54961463
It kinda is. Tbh the only real currency in recorded history.

>>54961434
>>54961449
Great analysis sir

>Nobody is ever getting any monetary value out of there via investing, and insofar as it trades financial assets, it gets taken to the cleaners.
The real 'fix' to their economy would be to solve the first part of your sentence, to make it so there is financial incentive in investing in the country and producing gdp growth. but how can you transform Zimbabwe into a country that can compete in economic output with those above it. They don't have population's potential, skills, or resources an average country in Europe has, and I don't see any reason they would in the future

>>54961580
That's a much harder question. Capital developed in the West because of property rights and savings. That system has its own problems, namely that everyone wants to take everything away from everyone else and hoard it, which is now playing out as hoarding from the future via debt and leverage, but it was workable for a while.
In Africa, it's more of a tribal economy (not saying that in a denigratory way, it's just different) where, I've read, if someone gets fertilizer and machinery to increase his yield, the next day, "gift-receivers" show up, expecting him to be "generous", i.e. taking the surplus. It's nice to give gifts, but the problem is that they expect it, turning it into extortion, thus eliminating any incentive to save or build anything. Ideally, it'd be the other way round, i.e. the guy with the increased yield would give freely as much he could, but not so that it destroys him and robs the economy of a business, but then again, Marx also said "ideally, it'd work this way". In a practical sense, guaranteeing property rights would go a long way towards improving the situation (which, in words, are "you can keep as much as you'd like"). Education, concrete capital, and all of that are useful, but they are secondary to that, since education can't be leveraged economically without capital, and capital is no good if it gets stolen.

>>54961580
Maybe a retarded question but why don't they just replace their currency with a stable country currency. For example use the yen, swiss franc for payments etc.

I understand that countries don't want to peg to EU or USD but there are a lot of other stable countries in the world that are less political.

>>54961304
That's about 9 million dollars of gold backing their CBDC.

That's the size of a small scale landlord's networth in a shitty coastal city.

>>54961616
Maybe I'm wrong, but I believe that would be pointless, since the USD is still the anchor of all other currencies. If they anchor it to another currency,which in term is anchored to the usd, they are just indirectly still anchored to the usd, with another currency as an intermediary

>expecting him to be "generous", i.e. taking the surplus
Yeah, that's a nice way to put it. Look at what happened with the Boers situation in South Africa. They murdered, raped, and flayed white farmers and their families. Those who can't prouce, can only take

>>54961614
I fucked up my reply above, but the second part was meant to quote your post

>>54961616
They did, they abandoned the Zimbabwean dollar in 2009 and used the South African rand, Botswana pula, pound sterling, Indian rupee, euro, Japanese yen, Australian dollar, Chinese yuan, and the United States dollar instead. That just saw further capital outflow and so they reintroduced the Zimbabwean dollar in 2019 which suffers from spiraling inflation and a black market economy based on all those other notes as people understandably have no interest in taking the local currency.

Zimbabwe is a perpetually failing state.

>>54961616
>>54961666
Apparently they reversed the ban on foreign currency settlement.

>>54961657
>Yeah, that's a nice way to put it. Look at what happened with the Boers situation in South Africa. They murdered, raped, and flayed white farmers and their families
Yeah, I tied to phrase that very diplomatically. Wealth inequality is it's own problem, no matter how it came about. Just the fact that someone is rich is enough for someone else to start agitating among the poor to take his wealth. At the core, it is a psychological problem as well, since what you'd need to do is sit people down and explain to them that, if they take everything, there'll be nothing to take in the future. The flip side of this is that you have to give people a future, i.e. property rights aren't stable in a system in which most people have no realistic chance of making it (due to their own fault or someone else's, or any combination thereof). In a sense, while you do need to guarantee security, you might even have to overpay workers, which is what Henry Ford correctly deduced. He used it to bust unions, but in principle.

>>54961338
Eat dick fried rice you fucking gooks

>>54961580
>They don't have population's potential, skills, or resources an average country in Europe has
The average country in Europe has had its population with skill and potential siphoned off by Germany. To replace their own shit fertility.
https://tradingeconomics.com/latvia/population
https://tradingeconomics.com/serbia/population
https://tradingeconomics.com/romania/population
Places like Iran already have populations with higher skills and potential than two thirds of Europe. Give it 5 more years and Zimbabwe will catch up with everyone except the likes of Poland and Austria.

>>54961463
Has has more inherent value than ever as it is extensively used for electronics and the supply is very limited.

>>54961717
Hey, where's Canada on that list. Surly a rich first world country like that must have massive reserves of gold. I hope whoever made that graphic got fired.

>>54961463
>Gold is for filling teeth or making a necklace. It's not a currency.

>>54961304

So its not a fiat currency backed by gold just a digital version of gold?

What a relief. I was literally seconds away alerting the Rothschild's so they could tell Israel to tell the US to immediately carpet bomb Zimbabwe and depose their highest elected officials

>>54961759
>inherent
>value

>>54961304
Bearish
Zimbabwe are the most incompetent government on the planet. Gold is gonna look like a clownshow after those niggers are done with it.

Is this my error or did they put this in here when they changed it to "underling?"

>>54961772
lol

>>54961614
>Marx said
>Marx thought
Nobody cares about that retard.

>>54961449
>IMF inadequate
How about you come up with a working solution to this problem: "people want to eat but they don't want to work, and they will not let anyone accumulate wealth from honest work".

>>54961463

>>54961504
>Tbh
How did you do that? It's supposed to say desu

>>54962093
Right? Noticed that some words get mingled here. Really, I don't know why it didn't digger there.
tbH

only 140 kg? lol

>>54961638
how do you get by without knowing basic math?

>>54961580
Rhodesia had zero debt, excess money from exports, modern infrastructure and was known as 'the breadbasket of africa'. Then niggers took over.

>>54961304
African century starts now

>>54962146
Yeah, bit more to it, isn't it?

>>54962163
It also had the highest literacy rate and lowest poverty rates for black people in Africa. A legacy Zimbabwe touted as their accomplishments then stomped into the ground.

>>54961717
Yes, fer suresies, all that US gold in that info graphic is right there in Fort Knox. Nooo doubterino!!!

>>54962226
They had no experience and it's not like west helped them, is it? Didn't they even buy snowmobiles from Russia?

>>54962044
I did say he had the right goal, not that he had the right means. It would be nice of no one was poor, like if it genuinely had no cost for it to be that way.
>>54962044
>people want to eat but they don't want to work, and they will not let anyone accumulate wealth from honest work
I'm not saying that I have the right solution either, just that it's a right aim. But in any case, help for Zimbabwe would be a case of, economically, pure charity.

>>54962817
You don't think they gave it to Germany, china and the Saudis?!

>>54961480
It didn't "fall out of favor". It was forced out of circulation by government so it could be replaced with money the banks and governments could create at will. In fact, gold was well on the way to being a standardized world currency until a century of world war derailed it. Read bout the Latin Monetary Union.

>>54963187
It did start falling out of favor with banks and telegraphy. The speed of information about business deals outpaced the speed of payment, so people started sending "payment-information" as a substitute for payment (i.e. wire transfers, telex, SWIFT, etc.) to match the speed of the information of the deals. They did see gold as money, but it was impossible to transmit gold at that speed, so they made up successive information-based moneys that they just didn't call separate moneys, e.g. a banknote is inherently its own form of money, but it's pegged to gold. Of course, it can't, long-term uphold such a peg because it works differently from gold; if nothing else, it can't long-term uphold it because they are different goods that can pool differently, limited by liquidity.
Gold is perfectly fine as money as long as transmission across space isn't an issue, i.e. you can pay your neighbor with it, just not someone half the world over online.
Yes, it was also pushed out, and yes, it was replaced by poorer-quality money that got issued into oblivion and thus couldn't possibly be all redeemed for gold, but the process of it being pushed out was, in part, caused by mismatch between its physical properties and the demands of its changed job. But the elimination of the redemptability for gold was only abolished when it was no longer possible to redeem it, i.e. when, in 1971, it was explained to Nixon that he should close the gold-window, that was in recognition that whatever the US was willing to give up of its gold-reserves would soon be depleted anyway. In general, if you can service redemptions, you will. The London Gold Pool had already signaled the failure of the peg in the 60s. Likewise, in WWI, the Bank of England stopped redemptions because it had already printed too much GBP. Redemptability being suspended isn't "we'll push gold out", it's "we've pushed gold out and now shit is fucked"; it's the post-hoc admission.

>>54963187
Yes, the peg also breaks because people print one half of it to oblivion (like in that LUNA-debacle), but it's just the natural human tendency to make money if you can make it, one might as well complain about the trees growing. If people who can make money get put in charge, eventually, they'll lose discipline. It's not much different from cheating yourself a million dollars in a video game once you've realized you can - at every challenge: "fuck it, just print more money".
But the reason such an outrageous system was accepted at all is that people do demand the kind of money these people "print", namely money with which you can order a pizza or pay someone online. Yes, you can buy a house with gold, but I'm not going to send a guy a couple of gold shavings in an envelope to buy a pair of sneakers online, am I? People just needed something they could call money that they could move fast, so someone sold them some promissory note or some Excel file or online app that said "here is money", and then they could buy and sell fast. Obviously somewhere along the whole money-chain (the whole financial system), someone was bound to lose self-discipline and start "printing a bunch of money", like a greedy little, 5-year-old child. I mean, banks are even predicated on this idea, being in the business of creating loans, and I don't know where all this compound interest is supposed to come from. Additional gold could at least be mined, but the banknotes are very obviously just printed, they can't possibly be that delusional that they think they're getting "real" compound interest (as in: real purchasing power, not money). Even if they hoard them, they're just reducing the amount of money in the economy and thus making others poorer, but themselves not richer. They're hardly going to consume $100B more if they have $200B instead of $100.
Then again, every SPY-holder refuses to understand this too, it's almost an article of faith to not understand this.

>>54963648
Everyone thinks he'll cash out at the current valuation, and maybe he even will if enough money is printed up, but not everyone can have the purchasing power that those dollar-amounts suggest at current prices. If houses cost $500K now, and there's $1T worth of houses, and if people take $5T out of the stock market to buy houses, a house will just cost, at minimum, $3000K, and more as a result of speculation. There's not going to be six times as much houses. People can maybe keep living with their roughly current level of consumption now, modulo fuck-ups in the real world that, yes, do seem to be severe, I don't want to underplay them, but since production will markedly go down with people retiring, whatever dollars SPY gets redeemed for just won't finance current wealth in the future where it won't exist.

>>54961449
is this a bot? no one gonna read those text walls

>>54961777
Checked. How are the Federal Reserve shadow government going to rule the world if chuds around the world back their currency with gold? It's antisemitism.

>>54962845
Rhodesia was a pariah to the west, their only friends were countries like Israel and South Africa. Zimbabwe can have as many friends as it wants, yet it still falls flat due to its own incompetence.

>>54961335
It's backed with fake gold.

>>54961772
see>>54961337

>>54962845
>Oh sorry we didn't know what we doing that's why we had 40 years of dictatorship.
If you believe black people have zero agency why are you advocating they have any control of a state? Wouldn't it be better if they were ruled by a benevolent white master if they have no culpability for their actions?

>>54964332
I'm not saying they were competent. Had a rough time
Sure there was massive idiocy and corruption at play.

>>54964492
Every peoples should govern themselves. I am against exploitation and the many shouldn't labour for the few. Ecomies can grow without massive overproduction and a corrupt banking cartel.
I don't believe such a master exists.
However yeah, kings are not per se bad. There were kings who loved their people gaius julius gave every citizen a fortune after his death.
True king

Do you have an example of an benelovent white master?

Do you think central Africans are incapable of learning anything?

>>54961304
Reminder gold is a bank scam too.

>140 kg
Lmao

>>54964581
Yeah. I kinda miss the part where Hitler said fuck you thmo the Bis (central of central banks) and ofc the part that mentions the big loans from uk/us to Germany soon after ww1.

>>54964566
>Do you have an example of an benelovent white master?
Yes, Ian Smith. Led to the most educated and self sustaining African nation in history.

>>54964646
Cool thx.
He was born in Africa?

>>54961957
I'm not going to get all philosophical about this, but let's speak in practical terms - yes, gold has more use than just being a material that is good for making shiny trinkets out of. There are very specific uses that are in extremely high demand for a material that is in limited quantity.

>>54964651
Yes.

>>54964667
That's a different thing. Sure, he's white, but he spent his life in Africa.
I thought you meant some bureaucrat from God knows where that is installed. Like eu installed Draghi in Italy.

>>54961304
IMF seething lmao
https://news.bitcoin.com/imf-says-zimbabwe-gold-backed-digital-currency-a-potential-threat-to-financial-stability/

>>54964894
It is to Zimbabwe, sneezing is a serious risk to financial stability there.

>>54961434
>Zimbabwe - and I'm not saying that it's a worthless country - is so weak that it can only be uplifted by charity, to be clear.
disagree
self-sovereign financial instruments like the one being discussed in this thread could potentially pave the way towards investment into healthy local economies and public goods like education/training, infrastructure and local industry

i know Zim has some natural resources it could trade on a favorable basis with trusted neighbors and use digital assets to trade in such a way that it benefited the local economy.

>>54964908
Zimbabwe like all of Africa has been deliberately hobbled by central bank-run colonial projects (it was more or less a Rothschild/Rhodes protectorate for the entire pre-independence history, and run by corrupt megalomaniacs willing to sell out the population and its resources in exchange for not getting coup'd after independence)

why do you think Ghaddafi got killed for threatening a gold-backed african reserve currency and building nationalized self-sovereign industry? it's the only thing that threatens the central banking cabal.
for the sake of the population of Zimbabwe, i hope that this represents a new beginning and that from here on out the people derive the benefits of their country's labor and natural resources. i hope in 20 years Zimbabwe is a watchword for regeneration and healthy local economies built on sound monetary policy just like it's a watchword for corruption and systemic failure now

>>54964926
>Zim has some natural resources it could trade on a favorable basis with trusted neighbors
That sounds good, but any investment into this would have to come without an expectation of profit on it, so not as some IMF-loan whose repayment cripples the economy. The initial capital to exploit those resources would have to be given for basically free.

>>54964926
>trade
Trading is work, and they don't want to work. The minerals end up controlled by warlords or leased to foreign criminal gangs (see Sudan's gold).
>investment
Say I have $1 million to invest. This means I will bring machinery, transport, materials, money, and other things requited for production.
Now I need labor, who do I hire? Who is skilled to operate my machinery and drive my trucks? And once I find workers and train them, some warlord comes and demands $10k monthly for "protection". My workers get kidnapped and tortured on pay day for $100. My trucks are destroyed in the latest chimpout since I refused to pay some tribute.

>>54961316
This. Trusting this government to fairly distribute digital currency backed by their gold reserves LMAO but same can be said with crypto. Trusting a handful of anons who own up to 40% of the supply not to sell LMAO, pt. 2

have a feeling this will be as successful at the Petro was for Venezuela. Remember the Petro?

>>54961304
>The southern African nation has turned to the digital money to help ease soaring demand for US dollars in its economy as the value of the local currency plunged. The move was criticized by the International Monetary Fund, which urged the government to rather liberalize its foreign-exchange rate than risk depleting its reserves.

The IMF doesn't want Zimbabwe outside its "appropriate interest bearing instruments". In another words, the IMF wants Zimbabwe to be a debt slave nation.

>>54961338
>>54961717
That graph is from 2019. The world has changed since then. It is speculated that China has over 31,000 tons of gold. The reason it's not declaring it because it isn't advantageous to do so right now. When BRICS is up and running, expect China to reveal its official figures.

>>54961463
>Gold is not a currency
Anon I...

>>54961504
Desubros what’s going on here

>>54965485
This is already out of date.

>>54965485
>$20 for all that
Not a chance. That's at least $60 now.

>>54964973
>i hope in 20 years Zimbabwe is a watchword for regeneration and healthy local economies built on sound monetary policy just like it's a watchword for corruption and systemic failure now
I hope so too, but I guessing in 2 years it'll be "Sorry whitey, it seems 90% of the gold reserves were misappropriated by the former finance minister and his relatives who are all now living in Monaco. But no worry, we have a new system ready to go. This time will be different, we promise"

140kg of gold

cryptocucks fiatseethers malding in this thread

based OP

This is not the Petro 2.0
Everyone knew the Petro was a meme
Countries are moving away from the dollar

>>54968267
and so they're going to adopt a gold """backed""" crypto from Zimbabwe?

de-dollarization is a meme not a real thing btw

>>54968279
It is not a meme my friend

>>54962817
>America misreports their physical gold but for everyone else you can trust the official government numbers because... because it just is, okay?!?!

>>54965146
I would trust random jeets before trusting the government of any black nation.

>>54961335
You don't and we've already been down this road before and it didn't work then and it won't work now. Bitcoin is the only answer at this time.

>>54966511
No shit Sherlock but the point of what one $20 gold coin could buy still stands.
>>54966826
No, learn to read. It's saying one could buy this amount of gas, eggs, etc separately, not all in one transaction.

>>54962817
https://asia.nikkei.com/Spotlight/Caixin/Mystery-of-2bn-of-loans-backed-by-fake-gold-in-China

>>54961357
depends on the laws they have and their ability to enforce them surely?

>>54962132
What's the price of a kilo of gold? Multiply it by 140.

Apartment block near me is valued at 8 million for 15 units. Single owner, assume he owns only that building and whatever valuables and liquid cash and investments he has could easily top 9 million.

>>54970500
Gold price per kilo 64,835.20
64,835.20*20 = 1296704

Reminder that the 140kg are just the one payment though.

>>54968312
If Zimbabwe is doing it...its a meme.

>>54961335
This lol. Imagine thinking it's backed with real gold. In Zimbabwe of all places.

>>54968728
>I would trust random jeets before trusting the government of any black nation.

I would trust ranom jeets before trusting any government

My parents grew up there. My only goal in life is to buy back our farm in Manicaland.

Or take it by force if necessary.

>actual gold backing digital money aka digital nothing
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAH
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
HAHHAHAHAAHHAAHHAAHHAHAAHAHAH

>>54961304
>zimbabwe gold backs cbdc
> 140 kg
Will be funny when everyone wants to redeem.

>>54973195
Do not redeem

>>54973195
>SORRY NIGGER CITIZENS, THE CRYPTO TANKED SO NO GOLD FOR YOU EVER
NO REFUNDS