/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>54652805
Them faggot wants to force KYC on DeFi, he definitely needs to resign for this

The problem with xrp is that even after all those years, no one is using it. Not banks, not retail, no one. All those riddles were bullshit

>>54652805
fuck kikes

>>54652895
this
iso20022 was nothing burger and the case will drag on in the supreme court until 2025, there is really no reason to hold it right now

>>54652805
DeFi will be regulated at some point, so sacking Gary isn't the solution

XRP the standard
>>54652895
>>54652950
Stop gatekeeping

you have to understand that despite the seething he causes, he knows more about cryptocurrencies than just about every single alt bagholder that hates him.

>>54652895
because xrp/ripple is at best a competitor to a cbdc, it's not a decentralized network or a centralized but neutral global network like swift, and cbdc's aren't going to get competition from companies, they're government owned and operated and have no place for premined coins like xrp.

Old Gary seems incompetent but I'm sure he is just doing what he it told to do. If he gets fired the new person will also do what they are told to do. Only way this changes is if the sec isn't in control of crypto.

>>54653216
No. It isn’t. It’s not a competitor to anything, and is nothing like swift. Put down the riddles.
>>54653160
Facts you don’t like is not “gatekeeping” f

>>54652805
>-ETH, XRP, and other regulatory compliant projects being recognized as a commodity
Cryptos in general are already recognized as commodities in principle by the literal commodities commission, see pic.

However, the price of XRP was shilled by the top people at Ripple, meaning it fails the Howey test.

>>54653262
What about the other 3?
https://www.businessinsider.com/personal-finance/howey-test

>>54653311
The other three are pretty much a given for lots of assets, including all of crypto.
The differentiator is the promoter/seller shilling the price of the thing.

>>54653252
it's a competitor to nothing only because it has no market

the existence of xrp itself means ripple will never win a contract or be part of a market where xrp has any position of utility or use whatsoever, so the only thing they can do is keep stringing along midwits with the hopes of "adoption" knowing nobody is ever going to buy or use xrp.

what's worse is nobody is actually looking at any of their products in the first place either. they've been around as a company as long as bitcoin and haven't managed to get anyone interested in their legacy tech without paying them 8+ figure amounts of their premined coin.

With Biden at the helm probably not. I think the GOP candidates for 2024 will be even less friendly and won't have dementia. So it's a lose lose situation

>>54653333
I still think there won't be an outright winner in the case,
XRP will get clarity, Ripple will pay a huge fine so the sec gets a "win", all documents will remain locked away and the sec will use it's "win" to take down the shitcoin casino.

>>54653402
>XRP will get clarity
You mean like Enigma got clarity?

>>54652805

>>54653418

>>54653412
I think you know.

>>54653555
I do, but I don't think you do, or you wouldn't have described this outcome as "clarity", like it's a good thing from which Ripple can just move forward.
Checked though.

>>54653578
Just of interest what word was I looking for if there is one?

>>54652805
Yes. If he's so sure that people are investigating in cryptos with an expectation of profit then he should start officially designating coins as securities and bring exchanges into compliance. I know that the law can move slowly but this is getting boring. Just get it over with.

>>54653402
won't work like that unfortunately. if xrp wins that opens the gate for just about any altcoin.

there's no scenario where ripple "wins" but other altcoins like ethereum don't.

>>54653749
I'm talking more about the cumrockets and obvious scams. The big boys are safe.

>>54653675
Well how would you describe Enigma's outcome from their SEC suit?

>>54652805
Yes, firing him may bring temporary relief but the underlying issues will still persist. It's time for the community to come together and actively work towards regulatory recognition of compliant projects and the sustainability of DeFi and crypto as a whole.

>>54653106
USA has no jurisdiction over defi. Sure they can regulate it for burgers hence the restrict act but look how well the great fire wall of china works. Kek

>>54652805
It's not just Gary here, it's the whole institution; there are members of congress who share in his philosophy, so taking Gary out doesn't just solve the problem. What we need are clear cut regulations that are fair and would not get anyone second guessing if what they hold is a commodity or security. The EU already has something like this in place and some Defi platforms are already taking advantage of the opportunity to introduce products that are compliant with these regulations into the space.

>>54654204
But the institutions won't come onboard if there are no clear regulations guiding that space and Defi definitely needs the liquidity that these institutions are gonna bring. I've seen superb work being done by some Defi platforms in order to achieve a seamless onboarding of these institutions when they've got the green-light to do that. It's only a matter of time now.

>>54654219
>some Defi platforms are already taking advantage of the opportunity to introduce products that are compliant with these regulations into the space.
Are these sort of products live yet?

>>54652805
Gary and Elizabeth Warren are straight up toxic, trying to stomp on crypto with their whack regulations. It's time to take flight with XRP, Eth, Link, BTC, Erc721s, and stash 'em in Sylo and Ledger wallets, alongside other alts that are within my radar.

so, what happens when Eth is inevitably declared a 'financial security'?
people who bought eth get to be included in class action lawsuits for being defrauded by the Eth foundation?
one thing we're all clear on though, Eth is NOT a commodity.

>>54654358
American institutions are essentially global institutions. If the pie looks too good they will get in it regardless of american law. The recent news of coinbase threatening to leave US will set a precedent for other non-crypto institutions.

>>54654373
I know SpoolFI's v2 which would be going live in a few months would allow institutions create Defi products that are MiFID II and MiCAR compliant. There'll be more in the near future but that's a good start for Defi.

>>54654409
>one thing we're all clear on though, Eth is NOT a commodity.
I guess the Commodities Futures Trading Commission didn't get this memo lol, see >>54653262

>>54652805
Firing him won't solve the issue of staking resumes, but it's a step in the right direction. It's important for the community to voice their concerns and push for solutions that benefit everyone, not just a select few.

>>54652805
Decentralized stablecoins are a crucial aspect of the crypto ecosystem, and their existence should not be threatened by the actions of one individual. It's time for the industry to band together and find ways to protect and support the growth of DeFi and decentralized finance

>>54654425
they didn't miss the memo.
you couldn't unstake eth when that was filed.
btc is a commodity.
eth is a security.
pretty simple rule, if it stakes, it's a security.

>>54652805
Its kind of weird to think that there is no way I can be absolutely 100% sure this image isn't AI generated from scratch.

>>54654560
>you couldn't unstake eth when that was filed
holy coperino kek

>>54652805
He gives a bad name to Jewish financiers AND law enforcement at the same time.

>>54654604
you sound like the one coping.
>nooo
>it was defined a commodity when it didn't promise a return on an investment
>it doesn't matter the code has changed!
>once a commodity, always a commodity!

>>54654659
>>it was defined a commodity when it didn't promise a return on an investment
The actual release of staked coins has nothing to do with the promise of a return on investment.

>>54654723
>The actual release of staked coins has nothing to do with the promise of a return on investment.
imagine trying to convince a judge there is an expectation of a return, when the code fundamentally does not allow one to collect it.

>>54654767
The staked coins were always promised to be unstaked.

I hate pedo commie authoritarian furry Vitalik with a passion, but you're reaching way too hard.

>>54654423
This must be the reason why SPOOL has been pumping. I saw it >>54654423
trending on CMC.

>>54654767
>imagine trying to convince a judge
The result of so many politically-motivated judicial assignments in recent years means impartiality on the federal bench is no longer a given.
There exists an activist judge on each side of any controversial cause.
The government just has to find a way to bring their case to the "right" judge's courtroom.

>>54654783
>you're reaching way too hard.
no, I'm really not.
a month before the CFTC's complaint you linked,
Kraken was sued $30M for offering staking services.
>https://www.sec.gov/news/press-release/2023-25
yes, now that it's possible for to actually unstake eth, it's clearly a financial security, and it makes sense it didn't meet the definition a month ago.

>>54652805
He couldn't explain himself and whether Ether was a commodity/security or not. Fire his ass.

Get someone that knows what hes doing

>>54654893
>for offering staking services.
You mean like ETH has been doing for three years now?

>Kraken
That's second-hand staking, not actual staking.

>>54654973
>You mean like ETH has been doing for three years now?
don't be disingenuous.
we've already been over this.
staking is basically a loan, which is a financial security.
if you can't unstake, that's like giving a loan, but it cannot be repaid.
well, a loan, that's impossible to collect on, is not really a loan, maybe it's legal status is a gift.
>but it's been 3 years!
so lets pretend being able to unstake, would not have bearing on eth's classification as a security or commodity.
in that scenario, there could be any number of reasons it hasn't been pursued yet,
e.g. working on building a case, not enough resources to bring to trial earlier, or most likely, the SEC is setting precedents with easier targets and they work their way up, citing those easier won cases in their case against eth.
>That's second-hand staking, not actual staking.
it does not matter who is offering staking, staking in and of itself is a financial security.

>>54655152
Here's the SEC explaining the difference between 'staking' and 'second-hand staking' in your own source:

>Staking is a process in which investors lock up – or “stake” – their crypto tokens with a blockchain validator with the goal of being rewarded with new tokens when their staked crypto tokens become part of the process for validating data for the blockchain.
>When investors provide tokens to staking-as-a-service providers, they lose control of those tokens and take on risks associated with those platforms, with very little protection.

The former is 'staking'.
The latter is second-hand staking, which is what the SEC cracked down on.

>>54654409
It has commodity properties as well, it's used as gas. Expectation of profit comes from those building on Ethereum, not just from the Ethereum Foundation. People expect more projects to launch on Ethereum, the demand for ETH to go up, ETH to be in short supply. That's the same logic as investing in a commodity like Copper, because you think demand will increase due to the power network needing to be expanded due to electric cars or whatnot. ETH is just a digital equivalent, so a "digital commodity". It falls down because it has a team associated with it. But if they all disappeared tomorrow it would likely still survive, it is probably sufficiently decentralized. But then publicly traded companies also outlive their founders as well, and some commodities also have teams, like OPEC. Honestly who the fuck knows.

>>54655152
And here's Gensler himself, also in your own source:

>Whether it’s through staking-as-a-service, lending, or other means, crypto intermediaries, when offering investment contracts in exchange for investors’ tokens, need to provide the proper disclosures and safeguards required by our securities laws,” said SEC Chair Gary Gensler.
Notice how he's calling out "staking-as-a-service", and not staking itself.

As clarified even further in the very next line:
>“Today’s action should make clear to the marketplace that staking-as-a-service providers must register and provide full, fair, and truthful disclosure and investor protection.”
Note: "staking-as-a-service providers", not "staking providers" (i.e. blockchain validators).
Remember: the SEC very clearly made this distinction earlier in that same press release.

This is because direct staking clearly lays out how the system and its rewards work beforehand, it's hardcoded.
And also because the tokens serve a functional use: "staked crypto tokens become part of the process for validating data for the blockchain" in the words of the SEC.

>>54654373
Defi is handling compliance pretty these days. We can tell from what spoolFI is building. For both Defi users and institutions that want to benefit from it.

>>54654825
Yeah, that's part of it. It's up 4x from EOY price so far and still a distance from ATH; So no way holders are gonna sell else they get rekt; especially with the packed up line of events that are coming soon.

>>54652805
He's not incompetent.
He's just incredibly corrupt.
His job is to neuter crypto, so that it doesn't become a threat to traditional finance,
And to make sure that US citizens don't view crypto as a viable alternative to avoid inflation of the US dollar.
All while constantly lying to the American public, that he is doing it to protect the middle class investors.
He's doing exactly the job he was hired for.

If you watched the hearing yesterday, he is very good at pill pull, and dodging questions, while appearing to actually give a shit and sound smart.
Although, he's not as smart as he thinks he is.
Two of the congressmen on that committee really raked him over the coals yesterday.
Is Either a security, was not a question he liked being questioned on.
There was a quiver in his voice and his hands were shaking, when he responded.
It was satisfying to watch

Keep in mind that it's not just Gary that's corrupt.
It's the whole SEC.
Regulations by enforcement, without clear cut public rules, just creates fear and uncertainty.
It drives crypto businesses out of the US.
There is also massive overlap between the SEC and the CFTC.
The SEC should be dissolved.
But it probably won't be.
If Gary is ousted, someone new will be chosen to continue the exact same bullshit.

>>54654409
Chads fighting the wrong fights on this thread. I don't see anyone talking about the opportunities that have been opened up with LSDs as ETH can now be unstaked. Commodity or security, I just wanna make ome profits from it and jerk off to my gains. Jeet!

>>54654601
You'll be shocked how much harm AI generated images have done to people. If you're not the photographer, believe every picture at your own risk.

>>54654536
At this point, I think it's going to be a long shot to get a fully decentralized stable coin up and running; the setbacks are too numerous and would take it out of the market even before it hits the ground running. Best alternative would be to utilize stables that are available in the best decentralized platforms; I've been leveraging DAI and USDC for yields on a Defi middleware and I haven't had a issues so far. I hope it stays that way for the long term future.

>>54655556
Projects that join arbitrum always make waves. I can guarantee you that there are a lot of money-making chances.

ITT: mostly AI shillbots shilling their AI shitcoins.

>>54655152
>SEC is setting precedents with easier targets and they work their way up, citing those easier won cases in their case against eth.

The SEC intentionally targets smaller companies that can't afford to fight back.
Most agree to admitting guilt and paying a fine.
They do so because they know that they can't afford a lengthy protracted legal battle.
But the SEC can.
When companies do fight back, the SEC intentionally drags out the case, at every opportunity.
They don't give two shits about how much taxpayers money they spend dragging these lawsuits out.
But they know the longer they can drag them out, the more likely the company they are suing will have no choice but to admit guilt (even if it's not true), settle, and pay a fine.
Or face bankruptcy from the lawsuit continuing to hurt their business and from mounting legal fees to lawyers.

So yes.
The SEC is building precedent against crypto companies.
But they are doing it in the most dishonest and disingenuous ways possible.
Fuck the SEC.

>>54655956
Do you know any? I haven't seen any before.

>>54655809
I often use my stables for yield farming and SpoolFi has been a very useful tool for this. Autocompounding and allocation are done by the vaults.

>>54654219
Several projects are claiming to be regulatory compliant, whereas most of them are not, only few like those audited by Trail of bits are worth paying attention to IMO

>>54654358
Several projects are now working on regulatory frameworks but even at that, I've only seen one building institutional-grade DeFi.
Probably when we have more of this in the future, there will be an increase in DeFi adoption

>>54656002
If that is the case, why are they going after Coinbase, Ethereum, and the other big crypto projects

>>54654373
Polygon works on a regulatory-compliant framework, and what SpoolFi is building in its V2 will be useful for all institutions, so yes there are projects working on improving the space

>>54658077
This is on a different level if you ask me. They talked about NFT passports to access smart vaults and institutions that want to take part in it will be able to define their KYC structure.

>>54657556
>Several projects are claiming to be regulatory compliant, whereas most of them are not

How can they be regulatory compliant when the regulations isn't clear itself, i believe the problem is with clowns like Gensler been kept in positions to make this decisions.

>>54652805
>Genslar
>Schiff
>Munger
>Warren
None of those geriatrics are the solutions to crypto scandals. The whole Congress and SEC need total overhaul for DeFi to remain DeFi.

>>54654536
>Decentralized stablecoins are a crucial aspect of the crypto ecosystem
I completely agree with you, decentralized stablecoins add another dimension to the opportunities the DeFi space offers as you can use them to store your wealth against inflation by leveraging on innovations like SpoolFi.

>>54654423
I saw Lark talk about this project, and if they deliver everything they outlined in their V2, then we have a new solid DeFi project that will take over from most others

>>54657881
Because they feel they have enough case law on their side, from all the smaller companies they crushed, to start going after the big crypto companies.

>>54652805
>>54652805
>ETH, XRP, and other regulatory compliant projects being recognized as a commodity?
Thought sycophants are ranting bullish chart for ripple when it's busy sinking down the drain. Is it time we stop fakehailing XRP and turn to PEPE, SUI and USDT yields ...

>>54654434
Whatever they do, they should leave DeFi staking out of it, because I can't imagine only holding my stables and not putting it to work on a DeFi middleware where it earns yield and hedge against inflation

>>54654601
You are restless because your life is equally AI generated. Keep hoping that one day you will begin to exist is reality.

>Is Genslar DeFi solution

>>54654390
>Gary and Elizabeth Warren are straight up toxic,

Both Clueless clowns in my opinion, it's quite a pity they are being asked to make decisions on innovations that are beyond their thinking capacity.

>>54657714
I hope we get more innovations like this, but for now we need to pay more attention to the single project working on it at the moment

Even Genslar, congress, Fed, Biden couldn't stop us. When they try to fud us, we're in a mini bull run.
LDO
GMX
SPOOL
BNB
SUI
ADOGE
EGLD
All my bags are shining green to change to moon color soon.

>>54655840
The reasons are not far fetched; everyone would prefer to gave all their investments within one chain for convenience and since all the big guys are pitching their tents on Arbitrum, there's enough liquidity to go round for now which would help projects offering good utility flourish.

>>54658457
True but I'll want collaborations with other projects too; the Defi space is huge enough to accommodate everyone and I think that's why most of the features that will be included in their v2 will be promoting collaborations like the Smart vault gating feature.

>>54654825
It's one of my long-term hold, and there is no way I'm selling after seeing all the developments that's lined up for it

>>54658796
You've got a good list. ADOGE did over 400% yesterday and SPOOL did over 30%. The progress is coming.

>>54659040
You should include ARB.

>>54653311
Can someone explain how baseball cards don't qualify for the Howey test? Tons of people buy them with the expectation of the value going up if the player does well. Investment of money, for profit, by the efforts of others in a specific league (in common). Aren't all official sports cards securities by this test???

>>54658796
I would have loved to see PEPE on this list also. The movement was massive if you ask.

>>54658587
I like the fact that the middleware interacts with other yield farming.

>>54659404
Trading cards dont pass the Howey Test, because the test is bullshit. Its vague enough that anything can fail it if the regulators want it to fail.

>>54652805
>solutions to:

>-ETH, XRP, and other regulatory compliant projects being >recognized as a commodity?
>- Staking resumes?
>- Decentralized stablecoins staying?
>- Crypto flourishing? and lastly
>- DeFi remaining DeFi?
There's nothing to solve there, my dude.
The only things that require solutions are central banks and the financial cartel.

>>54659112
I got some ARB because Spool migrated to the chain, now I'm waiting for $10

>>54654893
Kraken wasnt offering eth staking like coinbase. Kraken was promising a return for staking, thats what made it a security. Coinbase stakes your eth for you, then takes a 25% cut of the yield generated from eth staking. Coinbase isnt promising a return from coinbase.

>>54659716
That is a good decision I also bought on Camelot. So yeah, I have been buying not just fucking around.

>>54655209
>>54655293
wow, bravo, that's alot of words TO BE FUCKING WRONG.
>March 15, 2023
>US Securities and Exchange Commission Chair Gary Gensler suggested once again that so-called proof-of-stake tokens, which represent many major cryptocurrencies, should be regulated as securities.
>“Proof-of-stake” describes the process that is used to run blockchains INCLUDING No. 2 crypto network ETHEREUM, in which coin holders can earn financial rewards by allowing some of their tokens to be used in ordering transactions. Creators of protocols that underpin such tokens often promote their projects on social media, and investors flock to them based on the expectation of earning a return, according to Gensler.
>https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-03-15/sec-s-gary-gensler-signals-tokens-like-ether-are-securities
^He's clearly talking about staking, the coin, and not 'staking as a service'.
and if you were still confused and in disbelief, prior to that, last year, as clear as you can be
>September 15, 2022
>Gensler said that the native assets of proof-of-stake blockchains, which allow holders to passively earn returns through staking, could pass the Howey test
>https://decrypt.co/109881/gensler-proof-of-stake-ethereum-securities
now you can take your half-assed essay and shove it right back up your ass.

>>54659771
read >>54660328

Gensler is just a solider in the anti-crypto war the Biden admin is waging. Hes taking orders. If Gensler was ever pro-crypto then they have some dirt or something on him and are just using his crypto knowledge as maybe a way to better understand how to try and kill it.

If Gensler could say ether was a security, he'd answer yes. The problem is the follow up question would be why hasn't he took any action against the "ethereum"? Because he knows ether isn't a security and he'd have to sue like the eth foundation or something for the initial ICO. Maybe the SEC could get the eth foundation to pay a small fine, but it would set a precedent that secondary sales of ethereum are not a security.

So the most damaging thing Gensler can do is just cause the most ambiguity as possible for as long as possible, and continue to go after low hanging fruit like projects that can't afford to fight back, while never answering the question for the top cryptos to keep the most uncertainty as possible.

>>54660560
100% this, it's so fucking obvious