/biz/ - Business & Finance

PREVIOUS THREAD: >>53754783

START MINING IN P2POOL
>START MINING IN P2POOL
START MINING IN P2POOL
>START MINING IN P2POOL

P2Pool combines the advantages of pool and solo mining; you still fully control your Monero node and what it mines, but you get frequent payouts like on a regular pool.

P2Pool has no central server that can be shut down/blocked because it uses a separate blockchain to merge mine with Monero. There's no pool admin that can control what your hashrate is used for or decide who can mine on the pool and who can't. It's permissionless!

Decentralized pool mining (P2Pool) is pretty much the ultimate way to secure a PoW coin against 51% attacks. Once P2Pool reaches & maintains 51%+ of the total network hashrate, Monero will be essentially invulnerable to such attacks.

Although many inexperienced miners think that bigger pools give better profits, this is absolutely NOT the case. Your profits in the long run depend ONLY on your hashrate, NOT on the pool's hashrate.


>YOU CAN NOW MINE IN P2POOL FASTER & EASIER THAN EVER BEFORE WITH THE GUPAX GUI. USES TRUSTED REMOTE NODES BY DEFAULT!!!!

1. Download the *bundled* version of Gupax for your OS here: https://gupax.io/downloads/
2. Extract somewhere (Desktop, Documents, etc)
3. Launch Gupax
4. Input your Monero address in the [P2Pool] tab. USE A SEPARATE MINING-ONLY WALLET!
5. Select a Community Monero Node that you trust, although you can and should run your own node if possible.
6. Start P2Pool
7. Start XMRig

VIDEO GUIDE: https://gupax.io/guide/

You are now mining to your own instance of P2Pool, welcome to the world of decentralized peer-to-peer mining!

>NOTE THAT DUE TO BOTNET SHENANIGANS XMRIG IS AUTO-FLAGGED AS MALWARE BY MOST ANTI-VIRUSES, SO DON'T FREAK OUT!!!


OLD GUIDE FOR P2POOL MINING FROM THE MONERO GUI WALLET: https://pst.klgrth.io/paste/eecbe

https://www.reddit.com/r/MoneroMining
https://web.xmrpool.eu/xmr-monero-easy-mining-guide.html
https://monero.hashvault.pro/en/getting-started
https://www.supportxmr.com

*****/XMR/ Monero General Info-Dump*****
>*****/XMR/ Monero General Info-Dump*****
*****/XMR/ Monero General Info-Dump*****
>*****/XMR/ Monero General Info-Dump*****


Learn more about Monero's key features and excellent future prospects, have some common misconceptions dispelled and discover the cold hard facts about Bitcoin, Zcash and PirateChain. Also featured is a noob-friendly buying, storage and wallet guide.


>Monero: it's what new Bitcoin users think they bought. Every feature, explained
https://moneroinfodump.neocities.org


>Why Monero is so untraceable: a rundown of the powerful stealth tech Monero utilizes
https://moneroinfodump.neocities.org#MoneroIsUntraceable


>The Writing on the Wall: Monero replacing Bitcoin as the new standard
https://moneroinfodump.neocities.org#MoneroReplacingBitcoin


>Breaking News: no, Monero still isn't traceable
https://moneroinfodump.neocities.org/#RecognizingTraceabilityFUD


>Vaporware: why nobody is worried about CipherTrace's magic crystal ball
https://moneroinfodump.neocities.org#CipherTraceFail


>Very Clever Math: how we can verify that the XMR supply isn't being inflated
https://moneroinfodump.neocities.org/#MuhInflationBug


>Pssst, wanna buy some Monero? Follow these simple how-to guides
https://moneroinfodump.neocities.org#BuyAndStoreMonero


>Bitcoin: The Original Non-Fungible Token
https://moneroinfodump.neocities.org#BitcoinBlackpill


>Why Monero is Better than Zcash: the "privacy coin" criminals won't touch
https://moneroinfodump.neocities.org#ZcashBlackpill


>The Lowdown on PirateChain: why this Zcash clone is considered a scam
https://moneroinfodump.neocities.org#PirateChainBlackpill


>LATEST UPDATES

- added Proof-of-Stake update to Zcash Blackpill
- added list of available desktop/mobile wallets
- expanded all sections with more relevant info, graphics & videos
- added easily linkable headers and sub-headers (link icon to the far right)
- added a new section about traceability FUD

Never forget what this is ultimately all about.

https://anarkio.codeberg.page/agorism/
https://freedomcells.org/

>Help grow the circular Monero economy: buy/sell goods & services with/for XMR!

https://monerica.com/
https://moneromarket.io/
https://www.reddit.com/r/moneromarket/new/
https://monero.com/marketplace
https://cryptwerk.com/pay-with/xmr/
https://acceptedhere.io/catalog/currency/xmr/

>Live off XMR with Cake Pay (now available in 140+ countries!)
https://cakepay.com/

>or with CoinCards (currently US & CA only, UK, EU & AUS coming soon)
https://coincards.com/


>Monero stickers for guerilla marketing
http://monerosupplies.com/


Say buh-bye to Bitcoin and support the growing number of Monero-only darknet markets/vendors.

# = recently launched, exercise caution

>AlphaBay
>Archetyp
>Asur Market
>Chimera Market #
>Cloud Market #
>Dark Matter #
>Darkmoon #
>FilthyFellas
>Mellow Market #
>Retro Market #
Onion links: https://pastebin.com/raw/Ttnew9Yb


Anonymously exchange BTC for XMR using a reputable darknet service

>Kilos !!LIKELY EXIT SCAMMING!!
>Majestic Bank
>Elude
>Infinity Project
https://pastebin.com/raw/wVZ4mdDe


or a reputable clearnet service

https://trocador.app/en/
https://xmrswap.me/
https://unstoppableswap.net/


>Poker Club: play no-limit Texas Hold'em in real time with 2-8 players over the safety of Tor with the privacy of Monero! No user account required.
http://pokerggxmrvzecuo6afhucjwdljuve5eoavxdxdr6zedyejd6mvz5wad.onion

>XMR Poker
http://xmrpoker3icphjr7c6dgct3by44ph4xvxrds4jzwjkjh7h2owdf6icyd.onion


>Want to support further development? Donate to the Monero General Fund or MAGIC Monero Fund
https://ccs.getmonero.org/donate/
https://monerofund.org/

>Have a particular set of skills? Join a Monero Workgroup and (potentially) earn XMR!!!
https://www.getmonero.org/community/workgroups/

>Want more Monero-chan? Donate to the Community Art Fund
https://www.monerochan.art/

START RUNNING AN I2P NODE
>START RUNNING AN I2P NODE
START RUNNING AN I2P NODE
>START RUNNING AN I2P NODE


>What is I2P?

I2P is an anonymized P2P overlay network akin to the Tor network but with several key advantages over it. I2P is now replacing Tor as the go-to darknet and will play a pivotal role in growing the Monerocentric economy.


>Why should I care? Why should I run a node?

Increasing shadow economy adoption and the proliferation of an XMR-only standard are what guarantee that XMR will have a floor and won't also crash to zero when the Crypto Casino finally implodes. XMR's long-term outlook is therefore *strongly* correlated with the darknet, you may have already noticed how the number of TXs begins to drop whenever the glowies attack & cripple the Tor network, which underscores just how critical it is that the darknet wins this war against the State. Make no mistake: if the darknet is allowed to die XMR will take a devastating hit as well.

So by running an I2P node you are helping to make the network Monero thrives in that much more robust while also enraging glowies in the process. Win-win!


>OK, but how difficult is it? Do I have to store GBs worth of data like when running an XMR node?

It is literally as easy as installing an Android app and no, there are no storage requirements, the node only consumes some bandwidth.


>Cool, I'm sold. What do?

If you have no interest in browsing the darknet yourself then the simplest solution is to install & run the I2Pd Android app on any compatible (Android 4.1+) device, ideally a TV box since they don't require recharging and are permanently online. But any old phone or tablet is fine too. Make sure you activate "start on boot" in the settings.

https://github.com/PurpleI2P/i2pd-android/releases/latest


Otherwise just install the appropriate desktop client and leave it running.

https://github.com/PurpleI2P/i2pd/releases/latest


The console is accessed via http://127.0.0.1:7070/ or the menu in Android.

>No tail emission = Bitcoin is fucked

Right now, at the current hashrate, miners break even on energy expenses at a BTC price of $22K. Post 2024 halving, that break even point, at the current hashrate, goes up to $44K. If BTC does not go to $44K, miners will be unprofitable and hashrate will have to drop (miners going out of business) to reduce the cost of securing the network, also reducing the security.

If you know anything about the power of 2, you already know that things get very big, very fast. If we’re 3 halvings into 32 total halvings, then the estimated break even point for miners at current hashrate going into the last halving would be:

$22,000 * (2^27) = $2,952,790,016,000 per BTC

$2,952,790,016,000 per BTC * 21 Million total Bitcoin = $62,008,590,336,000,000,000 BTC Market Cap

The block rewards shrink so fast that after enough halvings Bitcoin would eventually require a $2.95 trillion price per Bitcoin and a $62 quintillion market cap to sustain the current cost of $7.15 billion/year.

Even if these numbers were somehow realistic, can you imagine securing a $62 quintillion market cap on only $7.15 billion/year of hashrate? LOL.

And that’s assuming energy costs do not increase at all over the next 120 years, which they will.

So basically BTC mining will eventually become so unprofitable the hashrate (network security) will shrivel up UNLESS it is subsidized by BTC transaction fees.

https://cryptostackers.substack.com/p/bitcoin-is-not-a-store-of-value

How do you people continue to persevere with this under performing piece of shit?

>>53821552
Monero is unironically the real Bitcoin.

>>53821701
>How do you people continue to persevere with this under performing piece of shit?
because the GOVERNMENT still exists.

>>53821701
>How do you people continue to persevere with this under performing piece of shit?

What do you mean?

>>53821701
Deliberate psyops using Monerochan.

>>53821710
>Monero.png
wew lad, I'm sure you're here with the best intentions

>>53822535
kek

>>53821552
I've read that curve25519 is backdoored by the NSA. How would that affect Monero? Is it not backdoored? Does Monero already use something else? Can it switch to something else? Is it not important?

>>53821701
Because i was here pre-2015 when bitcoin bounced between 200-800 bucks

Reporting in
##################################
IRC - https://pastebin.com/kP1gZ1Hk
Education - https://pastebin.com/V0SFR8qU
Mining - https://pastebin.com/Rd1V8P5L
Nodes - https://pastebin.com/j6Vv2Xn6

>>53822550
>I've read that this cryptography that was specifically designed to address backdoors is backdoored by the NSA

This isn't how the NSA works. They don't crack your veracrypt container filled with monero-chans; they collect all your unencrypted metadata and build profiles off that to determine that you probably have a monero-chan folder somewhere on your device, then send the FBI to your house to clone all your drives while you're on a date with a tinder-thot who keeps asking you questions about ring signatures.
They also release fud like this to outsource their software maintenace to anons and cryptography autists to make sure their systems are as secure as they think they are (i.e dude i heard there's a bug in SELinux somewhere in the 100k+ lines of code that let the NSA turn your raspi into a killbot) for free

>>53821701
cuz all the autistic nerds are buying and mining it. they know what's up.

Why are we going down?

>>53822824
yup

>>53821710

>>53821701
market performance != utility, and this has been the case since 2014

>>53823128

>>53822535
kek
>>53821701
best performing asset (crypto,stocks, metals) od 2022. Stable during bear markets. useful outside its speculative value, can only go up (just like your chromosomes. not that your a real poster but still)

hello monero people! i have a question.

would you be interested in a wallet that is self-custodial like cake, but can pay bitcoin lightning invoices all around the world? basically you would be fully interoperable with the most popular alternative point of sale payment network outside the banking system.

it would either work like muun wallet with submarine swaps (if that is possible), or it would have a custodial component with still private xmr or btc (your choice) denominated e-cash balance.

>>53824523

>>53821710
no it's not, and that's okay. it's kinda like moneo has taken the opposite of every design tradeoff bitcoin has taken.

>>53824523
>(((LN)))
Fuck off.

>>53824739
why? millions of pos terminals accept it. it's a fuck the banks system. and you have zero privacy issues this way as you don't have a bitcoin utxo or a channel point. or anything. the provider deals with that.

>>53824523
I mean, having some sort of xmr wallet that auto converts to LN would definitely be interesting for some people. If we are to assume they Monero is a digital swiss bank, then this is a use case.

>>53824803
Most of us view LN as a slow creep towards censorship, surveillance, and centralization managed by banks.

>>53824803
>millions of pos terminals accept it.
Source: my ass.


LN is not private at all. And it is a centralization vector.

>>53824803
>it's a fuck the banks system
>the provider
These points contradict each other.

>>53824523
>but can pay bitcoin lightning invoices all around the world?

>>53824803
>(((LN))) is a fuck the banks system

>>53824879
aye, but this does not allow for surveillance chaumian e-cash and monero are both pretty damn private.

>>53824925
i don't think you even know how ln works. when you buy something the vendor definitely knows how much you paid. he also can see a bunch of outputs in the tx and know one of them is yours.

in case of ln he can't see any of that. all he has is the amount you paid. now the provider will also see the amount and who you paid but will have no idea who you are and what is your balance. all he learns is someone bought a smoothie at the beach in el salvador.

>>53824946
not really. the provider is no different from the built in exchange in cake right now.

>>53825033
it's happening faggot. deal with it!

>>53824523
>do i want a wallet with trocador built in

Not really but you do you

>>53825126
yeah it's basically an exchange, the interoperability is your big gain. you can practically pay at any place that accepts bitcoin without paying on-chain fees, and also any place that accepts monero.

this idea came to me when i realized the e-cash could be denominated in anything really as long as the lsp and you can agree on a spot exchange rate..

>>53825060
>>53825085
I've got a self-hosted trocador, I dont need your ls swap

is desnake dead?

>>53825193
picking the exchange service would be obviously not hardcoded to the wallet lol. this is more about ux than anything. you would basically add the provider by scanning a qr code or something. the fedimint approach is even more interesting, aside from picking your federation there could be multiple lsp-s that operate to provide the interactivity with the lightning network and you can use any of them.

>>53825193
mind you if you self host an ln node you have to deal with the privacy and fee implications of using bitcoin. but if that's fine by you sure that's probably the best way for now.

>>53825329

Here is the bottom line: if darknet privacy gurus don't give a shit about LN then neither will anybody else in the privacy space.

>>53825403
that's idiotic. also this is about seamless and preferably trustless or heavily trust minimized privacy preserving interoperability with a payment network magnitudes larger than monero.

>>53825511
>Magnitudes larger
Yeah and it's not being used.
Also "chaumisn ecash" is a word salad meme that will get cucked. It's not surprise they the samurai wallet chads are completely against it.

>>53825629
It's not surprising that*

>>53825403
is dread still down?

>>53825511
alright i will spell the flow out for you retards then tell me where the privacy issue is!

1) you buy something at a vendor where you can pay with ln, but you have monero onchain
2) you scan a lightning invoice qr
3) give that invoice to the provider of your choice (has amount in satoshis)
4) provider answers with a quote in xmr and a one time use sub address
5) you press pay
6) signed monero tx is given to the provider
7) provider checks payment, and pays the ln invoice and broadcasts the monero tx

this is the simplest way it could work. nobody ever learns how much xmr you have, who you are (assuming you use tor or vpn) or anything. you custody onchain in xmr.

maybe it will require an escrow at least, so you can't screw he provider by double spending. but then you can still grief on monero unless there is a trusted arbiter. or you can have a custodial balance in private chaumian e-cash. we will see what works i guess.

bitcoin is easier because you have timelocked refund. so this can be truly trustless. monero is a bit dumb.

>>53825739
also note that this is for buying fucking ice cream and burgers, not drugs. but it's still pretty damn private.

>>53825629
they are complete idiots, they actually think bip47 is a privacy tool. i wouldn't listen to that bunch.

chaumian e-cash is fucking good privacy wise. miles better than monero in fact. but monero is non-custodial. so that's where you want most of your money to be holding your own keys, right?

but maybe you can have a fraction in private custody or in a trusted escrow. aside from being very private it's also an excellent offchain scaling solution. at one point in time monero will start suffering from block growing too large assuming it ever sees any real adoption.

>>53825739
The issue isn't swapping Monero for LN invoice is bad for the person holding Monero. We already know this and can do this for other cryptos. Some of us hold some crypto wealth in Monero and take advantage of this usecase.
The issue is that you are shilling LN, which is in itself retarded. For LN to succeed, it will have to become more centralized and censored over time. LN can't possibly work without more centralization and more surveillance. It will literally require liquidity channels, because if Bitcoin were to increase in usage to a point where LN is necessary, it would be much harder to buy real Bitcoin and swap into the LN as opposed to just buying LN because of high fees. Therefore, normies will then just buy LN invoices instead of buying Bitcoin, and as we all know they will take the path of least resistance and go KYC the entire way. We are already seeing this with the most used apps and most used channels of LN, and it will only get worse.
"Chaumian ecash" doesn't solve this. Self hosting your own relay won't solve this. "Submarine Swaps" doesn't solve this. If Lightning Network is actually adopted on a massive scale, it will be completely pozzed because unlike Bitcoin's base layer, it can be completely controlled. And if you think there is going to be a future where you can go buy coffee with LN and it wouldn't be completely cucked by regulations then I don't know what to tell you.
But on another, and more important note: THERE IS NO REASON TO USE LIGHTNING NETWORK.
If I want to use Bitcoin, I will just use Bitcoin. Simple as. This is why Lightning Network adoption is so completely terrible. Why go through the process of learning all of this new stuff when I can just use Bitcoin for the same affect? It's safer, more battle tested, far less buggy, and I can accomplish what you are saying with simple swap services right now (e.g. xmr > BTC). The cost of using submarine swaps would actually be higher than just using Bitcoin as is currently.

>>53825949
>complete idiots
They are literally the only guys who actually take privacy seriously amongst people who use Bitcoin.
>chaumian e-cash is fucking good privacy wise. miles better than monero in fact
lmfao. okay, you just exposed yourself for being a retard shill. Go kill yourself with your vaporware that nobody uses.
>at one point in time monero will start suffering from block growing too large assuming it ever sees any real adoption.
I think we will be fine. Monero can handle Bitcoins current daily transactions relatively easily at this very moment, and we are still at least another 5 years away before we even see that. Moores law will continue to hold.

The Sub5k Monero Ordinal Collection (NSFW), including inscriptions #992, 1111, 1204, 1603, 2341, 2551, 2775, 2950, 3047, 3410, 3489, 3545, 3618, 3678, 3722, and 3772 https://ordinalsbitcoin.com/address/bc1p53gtlypjkeq6lns00c7sqjxsfc7knw6a6k370yjpnztfq8auue6sxv7w3c

>>53825511
>that's idiotic. also this is about seamless and preferably trustless or heavily trust minimized privacy preserving interoperability with a payment network magnitudes larger than monero.

Nigga, if you can't convince the free market of that then you're just jerking off. LN is pretty much DOA as far as OPSEC-critical markets like the darknet are concerned because of the tendency towards centralization and the overall weaker privacy guarantees due to the larger attack surface.

At best, LN delays having to deal with BTC's notorious fungibility issues until you settle back on-chain, at which point you're again exposed to the risk of receiving tainted coins. LN on Monero would at least protect you from that possibility.

>>53825700
>is dread still down?

Yes, but it'll be back up soon.

>>53825949
>they are complete idiots, they actually think bip47 is a privacy tool. i wouldn't listen to that bunch.
You just outed yourself as the retard.
Bip47 (aka, stealth addresses) is the bitcoin analogue of Monero's stealth addresses. It is the only stealth addressing scheme that is being used over at the bitcoin land.

Samourai crew are the only team that worth a damn in Bitcoin-spehere, when it comes to actually using (and providing tools for) Bitcoin in cypherpunk ways.

>chaumian e-cash
custodial cuck

Now shove the LN up your ass and get the fuck out.

>>53826045
>They are literally the only guys who actually take privacy seriously amongst people who use Bitcoin.
they are running a scam and ripping retarded maxis off.
>lmfao. okay, you just exposed yourself
dude i explained the tradeoffs very clearly. you can't have the privacy and scalability chaumian e-cahs offers on a fucking blockchain where your property rights are fully observed. it doesn't work. monero is not as private, your anonymity set is tiny the whole thing is less scalable and more expensive, but nobody can rug you.
these are facts.
>I think we will be fine. Monero can handle Bitcoins current daily transactions relatively easily at this very moment
bitcoin on-chain is a dead end, it won't be able to service a single country maybe a larger city, monero a smaller city that's it. monero doesn't have script so trustless batch settlement is a problem. federated chaumian mints are probably the best you can get.

>>53826136
>Nigga, if you can't convince the free market of that then you're just jerking off.
ln is not for darknet nigga. ln is for buying icecream at the beach. nigga!

>>53825192
>>53825739
>>53825863

This sounds like it could work, but I'd guess the main issue would be confirmation times. Monero is fast but it's not near-instant like lightning. You'd need an equivalent payment channel system on monero (which only exists as a proof of concept made by a team of pajeets last i checked) to ensure that we're not waiting 2 mins to buy a mcBurger, or the provider would need to be willing to accept zero conf txs

>>53826178
>ln is not for darknet nigga. ln is for buying icecream at the beach. nigga!
You can say the same about visa/mastercard.
Go use your credit card at that point lmao.

We are here for the actual untraceable digital cash.

Typical btc-maxicuck... baka

>>53826186
>or the provider would need to be willing to accept zero conf txs
That's literally what zero-conf is for.

>>53826156
>Bip47 (aka, stealth addresses) is the bitcoin analogue of Monero's stealth addresses.
lmao! ohnononono! XD what you just said is totally wrong. all of it.

no bi47 does nothing to obfuscate the transaction graph for chainanal. that is a fact. it's a tool for a person to post a static address instead of giving everyone a one time use address. that's all it does. if one time use addresses made bitcoin private, monero would not exist. also bip47 connects your wallet to the recipient's donation address altho without amount. so it's basically worse than how most people use bitcoin.

>>53826186
>>53826226
that's one way. if the payment is small enough it might be a risk worth taking. risk can be mitigated via escrow or later via a small custodial balance that can be batch settled.

>>53826232
>no bi47 does nothing to obfuscate the transaction graph for chainanal.
nigger bip47 is not for obfuscating the transaction graph. It is for obfuscating the receive address to the third party observers.

This is the same in XMR, too.

The transaction graph is obfuscated by the Whirlpool coinjoin in Samourai stack. And in Monero, it is obfuscated by the ring-sigs.

Kek, you are indeed the retarded one.

>>53826161
>he fell for the "we need to scale for 8 billion people" meme and thinks cucking for centralization is a good idea
>still shilling the flavor of the month LN vaporware that nobody uses as the next best thing
>unironically calling samourai wallet a scam that rips off maxis
lol, youre the retarded maxi anon

>>53826207
>You can say the same about visa/mastercard.
yeah but we are trying to fuck the banks and visa here. with an open system anyone can participate it without the permission of banks and governments.

>We are here for the actual untraceable digital cash.
you can't trace it anyhow.

>>53826286
>yeah but we are trying to fuck the banks and visa here.
>fuck the banks
>this custodial servcice is brought to you by... cash app!! (TM)

>>53826274
>nigger bip47 is not for obfuscating the transaction graph.
tell that to the samourai brainlets!
>It is for obfuscating the receive address to the third party observers.
nobody observes the addresses in private transactions any more than with bip47. it's all visible onchain.

>This is the same in XMR, too.
no xmr has actual onchain privacy lmao!

>>53826304
well yeah there is a lot of that going on, but nobody needs the banks and central banks permission to enter the game. that's the main difference. this ensures that friction is kept minimal because it's a free market with free enterprise and free competition. and nobody can inflate away your money either.

>>53826314
>>This is the same in XMR, too.
>no xmr has actual onchain privacy lmao!
Nigger xmr on-chain privacy is achieved by Stealth addresses + RingConfidential transactions. Without ring sigs monero is not as private as it is now.

Bro just sell go suck michael saylor's dick and leave the convo.

>>53826186
>>53826226
btw if monero ever implements payment channels (without routing even) this becomes perfectly viable and trustless.

you open an xmr payment channel with the ln bridge and done. no custody, no third party escrow crap, full sovereignty!

>>53826339
>but nobody needs the banks and central banks permission to enter the game.
>what are well-connected LN nodes
>what are hubs
>What is KYC onramps

> and nobody can inflate away your money either.
>what are derivatives/futures

LMAO we got one of those delusional "inf / 21mil" guys here I can't believe

>>53826346
you are weird, nothing monero does translates well to bitcoin utxos. the bip47 payments are perfectly regular bitcoin payments. nothing more private about them than any other payment that doesn't reuse addresses.

the very fact that bitcoin has utxos and monero doesn't should tell you you are fucking wrong.

>>53826368
>what are well-connected LN nodes
>what are hubs
>What is KYC onramps
things you can avoid if you want. i'm not connected to any 'well connected' nodes or kyc services and ln works fine for me.

>what are derivatives/futures
ah yeah well that's a different discussion and monero won't win points at all in that one.

>>53826413
dude lmaowtfa;lksjaakl;sjd...
I can't fuicking even kek

Okay bro go play with your LN project. Well done buddy, enough for today lol

>things you can avoid if you want.
>What is LN "routing"

>ln works fine for me.
Okay bro just go play with it bro yeah you win LN is da best lmao

Does anyone want a sultry vocaroo in exchange for $10 monero?

>>53826463
>What is LN "routing"
do you even know how ln works? cause i do.

but this is besides the point. even if you don't think lightning is better than onchain, which is retarded but ok say that is your opinion, even then why wouldn't you be able to pay without any issues or friction as many ways as possible from a single wallet?

let's take the worst example: if you could pay a normal bank card pos terminal that are found all over the world from a monero wallet without kyc you wouldn't want that as an option?

>>53826578
*why wouldn't you want to be able to pay

>>53824523
>>53824665
>>53824665
>>53824803>>53825070
>>53825085
>>53825192
>>53825329
>>53825379
>>53825511
>>53825739
>>53825863
>>53825949
>>53826161
>>53826178
>>53826232
>>53826268
>>53826286
>>53826314
>>53826339
>>53826367
>>53826413
>>53826434
(((LN)))

>>53826571
post an example

>>53826617
suck a dick retard! also read this: >>53826578


what kind of a retarded cuck in this space wouldn't want to pay in a store for a pack of beers with monero if he can instead of a cucked fiat card that has worse than no privacy and fucking custodial to the boot?

>>53826680
You are shilling lightning network. YOU are the retarded cuck.

>>53821552
Global Hyperinflation. General /GHG/ >>>/pol/417330689

>>53826680
Thank you for bumping the thread.
I'm glad dudes like you exist, so someone can marry my side chicks and raise my kids as their own.

>>53826703
dude the lightning network is a global light speed instant settlement layer for the most decentralized monetary network in human history. the access to which you don't need to ask anyone's permission nor you need to trust anyone with your money. this is the biggest innovation in the history of money.

but in this context, in this thread it's just a payment method you could interface a non-custodial xmr wallet with. why not? if you use fiat, you are a magnitudes bigger cuck than if you use wallet of satoshi (which is an absolute disgrace).

>>53826863
>for the most decentralized
>btc
>most decentralized
Bruh. Gold was more decentralized than this ASIC shit. Go shill LN somewhere else.

>>53826897
yeah gold was not decentralized. it literally created banks because it was so cumbersome and slow and impractical and unsafe.

>>53826897
>this ASIC shit. Go shill LN somewhere else.
i just realized you dudes are suffering from some serious inferiority complex. wow. instead of seeing an opportunity to interoperate networks that offer different perfectly sensible tradeoffs against the fucking fiat money printing cantillionaire regime, you just low iq shit on ln that you don't even understand?

>>53826911
And btc is creating centralized LN because it is so cumbersome slow and impractical.
The difference is I won't lose my gold the moment people stop mine it.

>>53826863
You clearly aren't even reading our criticisms about centralization if you think this is at all innovative. It is Venmo 2.0.

>>53826863

The free market will ultimately decide what it wants. And right now, it ain't looking so good for LN, Monero just keeps on eating into its market share.

>>53826933
>instead of seeing an opportunity to interoperate networks
look at bitniggers mcap and xmrs, yea we are the problem. You are the biggest idiot I had the privilege to stumble upon this year.
absolute moron in the literal sense. I'm impressed that you know how to turn on your macbook on.
kys

>>53826950
forces for centralization and decentralization are and will be forever in constant battle. this will ebb and flow.

but literally doesn't affect you because you are using onchain monero still. so just worry about that!

>>53827138
idk about that. distinctly different markets so far. ln is best for over the counter irl purchases. monero is best suited for darknet black market stuff.

doesn't mean this status quo can't shift but it will hardly shift in favor of monero. ln is much more likely to get more private than monero to be more scalable and convenient for commerce.

>>53826933
>i just realized you dudes are suffering from some serious inferiority complex.
>29 pbtid

>>53826943
>creating centralized LN
you don't know what you are talking about. ln is more decentralized than most shitcoins together.

when’re we getting rich lads?

We back to let's make LN private and L1 monero bad fud again.
This is so tiresome with these people.
It's like they don't listen or have the ability to read or I just don't know.
How the fuck does the market bleed sats to these retards.
Literal room temperature IQ.

>>53827653
i'm doing a little research here, i want to know how you retards think. there is a potential here but i'm not gonna spend months developing a wallet that nobody will use out of some weird ideological damage.

i have enough on my plate with bitcoin alone.

>>53827692
we already know how we can make ln more private. the bolts are out there waiting to be implemented. monero got jack all in terms of l2 progress and it's been almost 9 years.

>>53827609
>ln is much more likely to get more private than monero

lol not as long as there's a transparent ledger you have to eventually settle back onto. Absolute dealbreaker for privacy enthusiasts.

Basically, if the darknet doesn't give LN its endorsement it won't get any traction in OPSEC-critical markets, essentially dooming it to irrelevance in that sector.

You should totally create a Dread account when its back up and go convince all the DNM admins that hang out there about how awesome LN is lol

>>53827609
>idk about that
you do not know shit about anything, that is the problem.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5iACzPvf1o

29 posts and 29 chromosomes to back it up. where are the mods !

>>53827609
>doesn't mean this status quo can't shift but it will hardly shift in favor of monero. ln is much more likely to get more private than monero to be more scalable and convenient for commerce.
cope and nonsense. You have like 200$ worth of BTC, just let it go. It will not make you millionaire, get a job and stop this retarded posting and spam.

>>53827748
>lol not as long as there's a transparent ledger you have to eventually settle back onto.
yeah and that will be unlikely to change. it would make bitcoin pointless and hopeless kinda.

altho we will see where zk starks can take us eventually.

>>53827758
stfu retard! let the adults speak!

>>53827725
Why are you so dense?
L2 is literally pointless at this point.
Monero devs keep improving L1(btc should do the same but oh no can't do that gotta keep making stupid L2) so it is usable.
Transactions are less than 1 cent, private, fast... I really don't know what are your L1 bad arguments coming from.
>muh size and scalability
Listen retard, the size of a pruned chain is 60gb. That is not bad for 9 years worth of transactions. I can literally right now buy 2TB ssd for less than 1 xmr, how many years of transactions will it hold?

Your "wallet" is not needed. You keep arguing how LN is "private enough" which implies it's private for some people but not so private against certain people which absolutely pisses me off.

>>53827942
>altho we will see where zk starks can take us eventually.

Recursive STARKs should enable significant proof compression, meaning a single proof could validate thousands of previous proofs i.e. the amount of data that would need to be written to the chain will drop dramatically. Combine that with expanding storage & bandwidth capacities and you basically don't need a L2 to scale anymore.

>>53823128
muh niggaz need to include monero in this meme some how. fuck the bailout commie gov that decides who stays in business instead of the goysumer.

>>53824879
monero ppl hate jews too don't forget that. we hate jewish communism where jew banks just get bailed out. jews never have to sell land in any other cities because of their money printing banking system

>>53828284
>I’ve been rejected by 109 women
>it’s not my fault

frens I'm falling on hard times and need to sell a bit of XMR but apparently my binance account got removed because I tried to login from burger land. Any decent swap services?

>>53828636

Trocador. They've just launched an eepsite so you can use that if you need absolute anonymity.

http://trocador.i2p/en/

>>53828663
ty fren

Anything that isn't PoW is a scam.
Anything that isn't ASIC resistant is a scam.

>>53827954
>L2 is literally pointless at this point.
that's retarded. blockchains don't scale for crap. can you guys not do basic math?

>>53828846
Monero is scaling just fine.
Keep shilling Venmo 2.0 faggot.

>>53828000
we will see about that bandwith thing. we will see if the internet remains whole and usable for this stuff. tyranny seems to be ramping up. big powerblocks trying to disable private electronic cash and e2e encrypted messaging.

with zk you can do trustless permissionless l2. and still manage the global bandwidth requirements.

>>53828856
monero is not scaling at all. also you are completely retarded if you think lightning is a company. it's a p2p gossip network and onion routed trustless payment network with near instant settlment.

>>53828000
Checked. I hope Ethereum adopts recursive STARKs just to shit on all of their L2s and "eth killer" chains. Private smart contracts don't work (there's a copypasta about that somewhere) so there will always need to be a chain other than Monero for handling them.

>>53827705
The potential is there but it won't be able to be realized until seraphis is live.
The other thing i completely forgot about is the 20 minute lock on spending newly obtained coins. So in addition to accepting zero-conf LN providers would have to wait 20 mins to spend their new coins; i don't think too many node operators would be willing to do that since anyone with that kind of liquidity is probably a maxi. Once seraphis is live though i think that restriction would go with it

>>53824803
>it's a fuck the banks system.
It is the banking system.
>and you have zero privacy issues this way as you don't have a bitcoin utxo or a channel point. or anything.
Do bitcoiners really believe this shit? There's a reason people who need anonymity wont touch it.

>>53826863
>dude the lightning network is a global light speed instant settlement layer for the most decentralized monetary network in human history.
Wowza bros! THAT IS SO HECKING COOL! THIS WILL MAKE THE BITCOIN GO UP!

>>53827725
>monero got jack all in terms of l2 progress and it's been almost 9 years.
>>53827954
>Listen retard, the size of a pruned chain is 60gb. That is not bad for 9 years worth of transactions. I can literally right now buy 2TB ssd for less than 1 xmr, how many years of transactions will it hold?
This is not how it works. If transactions went up so would space.
>>53828846
>that's retarded. blockchains don't scale for crap. can you guys not do basic math?
If cryptocurrencies cannot sustain themselves without L2s then they have failed. Simple as that. L2s are just the current financial system with a fancy suit on.

>>53829115
>If cryptocurrencies cannot sustain themselves without L2s then they have failed.
wrong.
>L2s are just the current financial system with a fancy suit on.
also wrong lmao!

simple as that. you are wrong.

>>53829024
>There's a reason people who need anonymity wont touch it.
don't listen to imbeciles! sender privacy is fucking good on ln already. receiver privacy is crap right now but it can already be improved with rendezvous routing and virtual channels as is.

the biggest problem lightning has currently is this lnurl infestation. but i think in time it will go away.

>>53828837
I was about to ask why a newcomer should look into Monero. Saw your post and did some brief searching. Interesting.

>>53829233
Monero is the best crypto for buying actual goods and services with. I treat it as a savings account rather than an investment vehicle.

>>53829292
Any thoughts on Kaspa? Still in my research phase and I don't think they have the emphasis on privacy, but if you have any thoughts I'd be interested.

>>53829153
Enjoy your glorified CBDC you cuck.>>53829200
>don't listen to imbeciles!
The only imbecile is you and the cucked faggots you listen to who lie to your face because they are heavily invested in bitcoin. YOU fell for a talking point from someone who says shit like picrel, let that sink in.

>>53829339
Kaspa might have a run up but ultimately it's making a bet on custom hardware that will be widely distributed but isn't yet. It also doesn't have a private ledger.

>>53829233
Monero is the only cryptocurrency that tries to achieve the goals of a decentralized peer to peer electronic cash system. Not because it's perfect, but because it is a BARE MINIMUM viable product for such a system and everything else is a fucking failure when it comes to achieving this goal. Lacking ASIC resistance is just one of many ways bitcoin fails to meet this goal.

>>53829352
Noted, thanks. This stuff does take a lot of research.

>>53829416
Thanks for the rundown. I do wonder what will happen with it considering all this talk of securities and privacy. If that article wasn't a lie, the underworld sure trusts Monero right now.

>>53829463
There's a rundown of clearnet places you can use Monero today as part of the standard /XMR/ opening pastas. I've used a few of them myself and it works as advertised.

>>53821589

>>53829200
the vigor with which one shills a project is inversely proportional to its actual value

>>53829488
Thanks for the heading. Sure is interesting to live in a time where having some as a just-in-case might become very useful, even important.

brehs I have 20.98 monero, and I hate the antichrist

Hahahahaha. I bought Monero just recently because I thought it's more stable than other coins. epic :DDD

>>53829348
nah saylot is a brainlet just like the people who think lightning is a company. and cbdc is issued by central banks not by anon miners.

>>53829518
so given the 10000 monero generals per year monero is absolutely worthless? is that what you are saying?

>>53829916
shilling is different than dispersing factual information

>>53829929
this anon gets it - there's a difference between "shilling" and "spreading the good word of monerochan." it's an easy mistake to make.

>>53830024
lmao. but you have to admit monero generals are awfully boring and repetitive circlejerk when i'm not here.

>>53830043
we do appreciate the 42 bumps, fren.

>>53829862
>and I hate the antichrist
Based.

>>53829903
>not by anon miners.
Lets see who will control the centralized bitcoin mining network if the time comes = )

>>53830043
Bruh ngl you're the best shill we've had here in a
Long
>ztranny
Long
>polish maxi who thinks coinjoin is 'good enough'
long
>0xmonero shill
Long time

I only use lightning network to send bitcoin to a dex and swap for monero, but the idea of essentially doing the same thing without the dex as a middleman is intriguing. It'd probably be easier to implement than atomic swaps too. As an added bonus it could also invalidate strike's/cashapp's business model of using lightning as a remittance service since literally anyone with a lightning node and a zelle account could do the same thing.

Lots of things to be worked out on the protocol level but lots of potential for growth and butthurt from companies trying to turn crypto into a SaaS business

>Captcha DJ K4RK

>>53830255
the biggest miner this cycle was core scientific with 4% and they basically went bankrupt in this bear. probably had to sell. centralized my ass. bitmain was once a big boi but those days are over.

>>53831110
i'm serious tho i think monero could use lightning interop. it's not different from what muun is doing or cashu/fedimints in bitcoin.

i could probably fork cake and throw in a few json rpc calls and quickly cobble together a backend from the bitcoin stuff that denominates e-cash notes in monero.

we will see, i'm a lazy man i will let others do the heavy lifting first.

How much do you guys make solo mining with the GUI wallet? I want to start taking advantage of my free electricity and I have an old laptop I'm going to use exclusively for this. Is P2Pool better? Qrd?

>>53831475
You need to be connected to the internet to mine right? How is that untracable?

>>53831475
you can easily make $1 a month on a $2 electricity bill. so -$1 profit.

I am too retarded to understand this non KYC stuff, my local bitcoin ATMs were all removed and now everything requires verification. I miss the old days of just feeding cash in the machine, sending it to an exchange address and trading different coins.

>>53831555
My electricity bill is $0 and my old laptop is sitting on the floor completely unused. How else can I utilize it to make money?

does anyone know how monero mempool behaves with unconfirmed double spends? does the higher fee one replaces the other or it's a first seen rule?

>>53831633
if you don't pay for electricity then it will be profitable just not very. i think selling the laptop and buying monero will give better returns but whatever.

>>53831660
damn from what i read monero mempool uses first seen strategy, too bad.

i mean it makes double spends seemingly hard to attempt but not really offers any certainty. if it was rbf i could just ask for a fee bump tx i can withhold that bumps with the spend value as fees as well making it economically impossible to profitably double spend on me. cause i would release it the moment i see a double spend propagate.

could have made this all so very simple.

Bros, how the fuck do i get monero??? There aren't even any h2h btc sellers in my country. I am absolutely not making a KYC AML exchange account. Would it be okay to buy at a btc atm in a different country and then swap it for xmr? Does buying abroad make my activity more or less obscure? Please help bros

>>53831748
bisq?

>>53830043
We don't mind other viewpoints, but your cope of lightning Network not being centralized shit is pathetic.

>>53831284
Is there a non-normie explanation of what Fedimints and ecash are? So far all I've read are a few articles that read like a scam whitepaper
>Second custody bro. Instead of a Jew holding your keys a Jew is holding your keys, but this one is your friend!
>It's private bro
>It's scaleable bro
>It's based on digicash bro
>Bro don't ask what happened to digicash it's FUD anyways
>We're gonna change the world bro

>>53831227
>centralized my ass.
Cope harder you compliant cuck. Bitcoin mining is centralized into warehouses simply because it allows for ASICs. World governments could control bitcoin consensus TONIGHT if they wanted.

>>53831774
I've heard of it but i didnt know they have fiat to btc. How is this even legal without KYC?

>>53831748
You'll need some type of fiat gateway, but if you're dead set on not KYC-ing anywhere then your best bets are a cash-by-mail, gift card, or money order seller on localmonero. You can put the seller's name in the to and from fields on a money order to keep yourself anonymous

>>53831829
i can tldr:
basically you get digital cash notes generated by you, that the mint blind signs. this blind signature can be verified by the mint.

>generate a random number
>take the hash of it
>encrypt the hash with a blinding factor
>make the mint sign the blinded hash with their private key
>remove your blinding factor to get the blind signature

then you can give someone the secret and the signature which can't be tied to your session because the mint never learned your secret nor your blinding factor.

then someone can show it to the mint and ask for a new note of equal value or to say pay him in other means. mint verifies the signature using the hash of the secret and it's private key to reproduce the signature and process the payment.

>>53831909
one more trick people use is to sign each denomination with a different private key. this way you don't have to deal with encoding and proving that information.

obviously if you lose these notes it's like losing cash, there is no blockchain you are fucked.

but if you have a seed or master password you can derive a key to encrypt and back them up in cloud or whatever.

>>53831948
the neat part is there is no address or anything. so there is absolutely no trace of how a bunch of e-cash notes got from you to whoever you paid nor could the mint ever learn who has how many of these notes. they are perfectly fungible within the mint.

but since the entire world can't be in a single mint that was not a very useful concept. until lightning came and connected all the mints together. suddenly you can sent to people in other mints or pay ln invoices in general. you can obviously just pay for an on-chain tx as well.

imagine thinking (((fedimints))) are fungible. This retard shill with no working product will keep claiming that it is "better than Monero" and keep ignoring the glaring centralization issues with the scam he is pushing. Literally 52 posts.

>>53832033
ecash notes are more fungible than anything ever on monero. literally all notes have a separate unlikable identity before and after transfer.

with monero you have a bunch of decoys that add uncertainty but still have a transaction graph and if enough people are doxxed or enough fake decoys are accumulated in the system you don't even have real privacy or fungibility anymore.

>>53832061
but as i said the important difference is monero is not custodial. e-cash may be insanely private and you can derisk the custodial aspect with a federation, but still it's custody.

>>53832033
btw i have seen monero transaction ids on the ofac blacklist. so guess what if they could enforce a ban on certain txids then all their outputs are burned. you are effectively censored.

there is no theoretical way to do this with e-cash.

>>53832093
unless ofc they literally get into your wallet but then you are fucked no matter what we are talking about.

>>53831829
i'm so glad you asked btw.

here is a brief digestible but more technical description:
https://github.com/cashubtc/cashu/tree/main/docs

cashu is simpler then fedimint by probably a magnitude, so better case study if anyone is interested in private custodianship.

>>53831813
my dude you have no clue what you are talking about. i bet some sperg said this to you and you liked it, but no. lightning is a p2p network. most people that just dick around with a few sats use custodial wallets and weird lnurl services for that that are absolutely centralized.

but having opt-in centralized services on a decentralized network is not so surprising.

>>53829024
when dread back?

>>53832061
"yeah bro the implementation that totally doesn't exist yet is totally more fungible than anything on Monero and won't get cucked by centralization"
>>53832093
And we have made fun of this because it is effectively unforceable
>there is no theoretical way to do this with e-cash.
You can monitor everything through centralized servers you mongoloid
>>53832286
The vast majority of LN wallets are custodial.
The vast majority of LN nodes are through centralized servers.
The vast majority of transactions are still through Bitcoin after 6 years of highly speculative promises like what you are regurgitating.
The vast majority of things you are claiming to be better than Monero don't actually exist yet.
That's where we are at right now.

>>53831621
the new age is monero only, adapt

>>53832362
pretty sure you're responding to an anon having a genuine manic episode

>>53832298

2 more weeks?

unless Desnake is dead and so i don't know, I hear Libreforum is an OK replacement it's run by the IncognitoMarket guys

>>53821552
>Monero chan
How can she be so perfect bros?

>>53832196
>>53832004
>>53831948
>>53831909
So if i'm reading this correctly, were such a system implemented in monero
>alice can send the bank of bob 1 xmr
>bob can issue alice a token/tokens worth 1 xmr, redeemable for 1 xmr at the bank of bob
>bob can't spend the xmr he recieved since he doesn't have alice's private key
>bob doesn't know how much xmr he recieved
>bob can't magically create more tokens out of thin air nor can he do any other typical bank fuckery like fractional reserve or rehypothecation
>alice can give carol 1 xmr worth of tokens for grass fed beef
>carol can ho to the bank of bob and redeem her token(s) for 1 xmr
>bob can prove these tokens are real since they're signed with his key, and proceed to give 1 xmr to carol

>>53832632
>How can she be so perfect bros?
Thick, juicy fungibility and a commitment to principles.

is nemesis market legit, their tor link seems to always be up

I go through darknetlive, also I don't even buy shit so just curious about how the markets are

>>53831748
If you own a service you can accept payment in XMR as well, effectively converting fiat to Monero.

>>53832298
>You have reached the Dread Network System Status application.

>>53832075
>but still it's custody.
AKA not decentralized p2p digital cash. Thanks again for telling me why I shouldn't give a fuck!

P2Pool or solo mining? They say P2Pool pays out more, is it true?

>>53833091
They should pay out the same amount (0% fee) but solo mining is more prone to variability. P2pool is consistent small amounts of xmr.

Only btcucks need (((L2, L3, L4))) solutions, why wouldn't they? btcope can't implement shit on L1.

At least it's amusing to see bitniggers desperation trying to convince Monero CHADS to use their SHITCOIN with their SHIT LAYERS UPON LAYERS, UPON LAYERS OF GARBAGE.

These niggers are in every XMR thread beacause btcunt is fucked and in their unconsciousness they already know that. Their desperation is literally a form of COPE.

BTCOPE! GET FUCKED! BTCOPED!

>>53833606
But over a long period of time it averages out?

>>53821710
I remember that bread, it was a good one.

>>53834499
Yes, but if your hashrate is low that long period of time could be more than is reasonable.

>>53832849
the xmr Alice sends to Bob is spendable by Bob. (hence i repeat its custodial the difference is the mint wouldn't know your balance and you don't have an account with user info or kyc attached like on an exchange)

the e-cash note let's call it e-xmr is not known to Bob only known to Alice and then Carol and then Bob.

let's say you have 99 xmr in the self custody wallet, and keep 1 xmr in this e-cash wallet. then you can spend up to 1 xmr via lightning without any friction, and your 99 is absolutely safe. you can top up or withdraw at your convenience with onchain xmr tx against e-cash notes.

now i'm not sure this is needed 0-conf would be so much simpler, but it puts the ln bridge at significant risk. whoever runs it can be cleared out and bankrupted via propagation timing attacks on a first seen network.

>>53833062
you should give a fuck because it's a sensible tradeoff for buying icecream on the beach. it also scales extremely well because it's practically an on-chain transaction batching technique.

and the risks can be mitigated in multiple ways. but i'm not telling you put all your savings into custody that's retarded. definitely keep your savings in self custody!

also you can run an ln bridge for a mint, it's no more difficult than running an xmr node and a bitcoin node at once. the software that goes on top of them is minimal.

>>53832849
>bob can't magically create more tokens out of thin air nor can he do any other typical bank fuckery like fractional reserve or rehypothecation

so that would be nice. the e-cash protocol is so private currently that ensuring the mint does not print tokens out of thin air is practically not possible. the mint can do a proof of reserves attestation, but can't prove a negative, can't prove that there are no tokens (liabilities) it did not issue.

this is supposed to be an alternative to a custodial service where your balance is known to the custodian. that's the main thing. there is a potential way to ensure over a longer period the mint did not cheat, as it would come to light like two months later. so it can't run a fractional reserve forever and keep the business running. that's something.

If i buy on binance with kyc and withdraw to a local wallet, is that enough to not tie my identity to the coins? Why does binance allow monero but not mweb-litecoin

>>53835738
Binance uses fractional reserve to suppress the price of Monero at the direction of the Chinese government.

the main issue with monero is you can't do a timelocked refund construct natively on monero.

you can have a trusted third party mediator. this practically means you are in custody anyhow and the amount is doxxed and perhaps the purpose is doxxed. and worse the ln bridge operator is also financially exposed to a third party. not sure i would like that risk.

e-cash is straight up custody without the custodian knowing shit about you your balance or your purpose for spending (assuming the ln bridge is run by a separate entity).

if monero can do trustless payment channels in the future the ln bridge becomes so much simpler and atomic.

>>53835747
How is this relevant?

>>53835738
you can't be tied to those monero as long as you use a different subadress afterwards. Ofcourse binance will know you bought monero, if you wish to also avoid that you can buy another crypto and swap it for monero somewhere else that doesnt need kyc

>>53832061
>ecash notes are more fungible than anything ever on monero. literally all notes have a separate unlikable identity before and after transfer.
>
>with monero you have a bunch of decoys that add uncertainty but still have a transaction graph and if enough people are doxxed or enough fake decoys are accumulated in the system you don't even have real privacy or fungibility anymore.

What kind of retarded horseshit is this?

Monero's fungibility comes NOT from ring signatures but from the potent combination of FULLY shielded addresses & amounts, you can't taint XMR because you cannot EVER distinguish one coin from another.

Decoys are for outputs ONLY and ring signatures will be deprecated once SNARKs/STARKs have sufficiently matured.

Anyone think xmr will flip every crypto and have a bigger marketcap then the global bond market to the point we can have rural strongholds mid century and no xmr holders will be priced out? All the tech talking points is just noise after awhile to me I get some but it's just money to you know buy things and peace of mind at the end of the day.

>>53832093
>btw i have seen monero transaction ids on the ofac blacklist. so guess what if they could enforce a ban on certain txids then all their outputs are burned. you are effectively censored.
>
>there is no theoretical way to do this with e-cash.

Oh look, yet more retarded horseshit. Adding Monero addresses to blacklists is completely and utterly pointless, nay, futile since those addresses will NEVER appear on the blockchain so its impossible to monitor the flow of funds to and from them.

As for blacklisting TX IDs, holy shit that's hilarious!

>>53835836
Yeah they've blacklisted txids and 5-addresses before.
>Treasury fw

>>53835850

>Digital Currency Address - XMR - 5be5543ff73456ab9f2d207887e2af87322c651ea1a873c5b25b7ffae456c320;
>Digital Currency Address - XMR - 884Bz8UH63aYsjVdkfWfScRYWZGGNbjFL7pztqvWNSrtYT4reFSwyvkCj9KEGUtheHhhMUj87ciTBFyzoesrMJ4L1FvSoxL
>Digital Currency Address - XMR - 49HqitRzdnhYjgTEAhgGpCfsjdTeMbUTU6cyR4JV1R7k2Eej9rGT8JpFiYDa4tZM6RZiFrHmMzgSrhHEqpDYKBe5B2ufNsL

Oh my sides.

>>53835817
>What kind of retarded horseshit is this?
it's the bloody truth.

>Monero's fungibility comes NOT from ring signatures but from the potent combination of FULLY shielded addresses & amounts, you can't taint XMR because you cannot EVER distinguish one coin from another.

it breaks at either of those points. they don't add their strength together they are all requirements.

>>53835817
>and ring signatures will be deprecated once SNARKs/STARKs have sufficiently matured.

amen! halo2 is noice.

>Adding Monero addresses to blacklists is completely and utterly pointless

i said txid can you read? if the outputs are on a blacklist you can't spend. period.

>>53835903
i mean they can't enforce it for now, but in theory they could via a 51% attack. altho i have bigger confidence in monero to fuck that shit over than in bitcoin. in bitcoin the mining algo is a holy cow. in monero thankfully it's not.

>>53835994
i mean technically with cpu mining you have nowhere to run. but you can break the nakamoto consensus. unless you treat that as a holy cow.

>>53835974
I have not seen maxi-cope this hard yet. We really are still early.

>>53835974
>it's the bloody truth.

Yeah, "Trust Me, Bro."

>it breaks at either of those points. they don't add their strength together they are all requirements.

Uh, no. Even with ring signatures 100% broken you could only determine that a specific output is being spent, the specific addresses & amounts involved would still be unavailable for analysis.

That's the entire point of Monero's modular approach to privacy: if one element is compromised the remaining elements take up the slack.

>>53835981
>i said txid can you read? if the outputs are on a blacklist you can't spend. period.

lol do you even understand how ring signatures work?

>>53836084
>>53836098
no need to trust my ask fluffypony!

>>53836109
doesn't matter my dude, if they effectively blacklist the outputs that means no tx that references any of them will be allowed into a block.

it's truly amazing to me that monero people don't know how monero works. what a surprise.

>>53832362
>The vast majority of LN wallets are custodial.
and that's a problem.
>The vast majority of LN nodes are through centralized servers.
that's bullshit. there are like 80 thousand ln nodes out there. lot more people use custodial wallets but a whole bunch uses muun which is noncustodial.
>The vast majority of things you are claiming to be better than Monero don't actually exist yet.
actually does, that's why i'm here.

so funny that people think i'm a bitcoin maxi i actually want to btfo them. aside from proposing a way for monero that choose the role of black market cash a mostly frictionless interface to white/gray markets, i want to disprove the narrative that custodial ln solutions will inevitably win people over to bitcoin the asset.

by proving that even monero can be integrated to the lightning network (and monero is probably contractually as dumb as you can get) i disprove their thesis that there will be ample demand for bitcoin the asset or the bitcoin block space for self custody.

>>53832362
>You can monitor everything through centralized servers you mongoloid
you can't monitor the cash flow in e-cash. this is a cryptographic fact. there is no evident linkage like you have on a blockchain. it's probably even better privacy wise than zcash shielded pools.

Bump for Seraphis/Jamtis
https://piped.mha.fi/watch?v=sLqY5WuJXIo
https://lbry.projectsegfau.lt/@monerocommunityworkgroup:8/justin-berman-seraphis-jamtis-feature-2:7

>>53836929
>>The vast majority of LN nodes are through centralized servers.
>that's bullshit. there are like 80 thousand ln nodes out there. lot more people use custodial wallets but a whole bunch uses muun which is noncustodial.
You are a nigger.
http://essay.utwente.nl/92624/1/Bachelor_Thesis.pdf
>. Our results
suggest that Lightning Network is still fairly centralized, with
large nodes having a substantial share in the connectivity and
effectiveness of the network.

This centralization tendency will get worse as the LN ""grows"". It will tend to centralize around a few well-connected hubs and most people will have to route their LN payments through them.

Oh, btw, chainanalysis has started offering LN tracing service to the law enforcement now. What a fucking shitshow.

>>53836949
broken proof of reserve finally getting fixed?

>>53836990
nah don't believe random sperging i used ln a lot. ran multiple nodes. there is nothing centralized about it. nor can anyone really get an advantage from creating roadblocks and friction because a p2p network will naturally routes around the obstacles.

this is just cope.

>>53836990
>It will tend to centralize around a few well-connected hubs and most people will have to route their LN payments through them.
only people who don't know the inherent limitations htlcs pose to channels and nodes would spout this bs.

>>53836990
>Oh, btw, chainanalysis has started offering LN tracing service to the law enforcement now.
yeah, they take money from law enforcement and sell them reading chicken guts. listen! ln is not perfectly private it's not even as private as monero in itself. especially if you receive payments. for spending ln is about as private as using tor gives the average bloke. onion routing goes only so far against the nsa. it has no blockchain so monitoring is cumbersome and expensive and uncertain. but integrating through e-cash you have the perfect anonymity set of the users of that mint. if people connect via mixnets it's nearly impossible to even tell how many people use a mint let alone how much they have and who trades with whom.

>>53836189
>if they effectively blacklist the outputs that means no tx that references any of them will be allowed into a block.

Oh I get it, you're trolling. Based undercover MoneroChad fudding for thread bumps.

>>53835738
>Why does binance allow monero but not mweb-litecoin
According to binance it's because there's no way to verify that 'you' sent the funds as there's no addresses in MW

>>53837213
no i'm stating facts. i'm not saying that is easily feasible or that i think you guys would just roll with it, but effectively blocking any tx that references any output of a given transaction from getting into a block will censor those coins.

it's not impossible at all. monero is also open to whitelist censorship attacks. it is only resistant to blacklisting addresses to a pretty huge degree.

bitcoin covers the two extremes rn: extreme auditability (property rights) with very weak privacy via pseudoanonymity, and extreme privacy via e-cash protocols but weak auditability and great threat of dilution.

monero exists in the middle as a compromise it has less auditability than bitcoin but still fairly strong depending on audited math and implementation, it has pretty good privacy with a sizeable anonymity set and an obfuscated transaction graph and obfuscated amounts.

that's how i see it. and ofc there are tradeoffs along the scaling side as well.

i kinda want to break the notion that bitcoin won the e-cash battle and is fundamentally needed for that just because lightning inter-connectivity makes it viable.

>>53837091
I think so? The new addressing scheme should make it very easy to verify the balance of a wallet, say for a donation address, without fumbling around with key images.

>>53837644
Pretty much all of this will be null and void when seraphis/jamtis is live; you'd have to ban every single txid at that point. Stuff like multisigs and timelocks should be possible as well

The fedimint/lightning idea could be implemented after the upgrade to make it near impossible to stop the 2 chains from interacting with each other, BTFOing any regulations. This is assuming bitcoin becomes the de facto "white market" coin and monero keeps being the "black market" coin. It's probably too early to work on something like this now though

>>53837644
>it's not impossible at all. monero is also open to whitelist censorship attacks. it is only resistant to blacklisting addresses to a pretty huge degree.


Plz explain how this is supposed to work out in the wild, especially how miners factor into it all.

>>53837372
south korean financial regulations are seem to be blamed. either over compliance or something is fucked there. but that argument does not make any sense if they let you deposit monero.

>>>/pol/417434889
GLOBAL HYPERINFLATION GENERAL GHG

>>53838067
it takes a 51% attack obviously. then the attacker that gained hash dominance can effectively censor transactions unless monero changes the mining to say being partially merge mined with bitcoin. that way the attacker would also need to gain hash dominance over bitcoin or every 10 minutes an asic mined block will slip in with the full hashrate of bitcoin.

>>53837923
>Pretty much all of this will be null and void when seraphis/jamtis is live; you'd have to ban every single txid at that point. Stuff like multisigs and timelocks should be possible as well
noice! haven1t really read into that in depth but i knew it was supposed to fix the broken multisig. so now you can have all the federated scaling on top of monero.

>>53837923
>Pretty much all of this will be null and void when seraphis/jamtis is live; you'd have to ban every single txid at that point. Stuff like multisigs and timelocks should be possible as well
noice! haven't really read into that in depth but i knew it was supposed to fix the broken multisig. so now you can have all the federated scaling on top of monero.

>>53834960
Cool if after 3 months I haven't made any xmr, I'll look into p2pool

>>53838710
i made 0.003 xmr in a month with p2pool after that i shut it down it's pointless. it was a fairly strong laptop for an old laptop that i still use for development building, running dbs and vms and stuff.

>>53838710
p2pool is great, been mining for 13 days and got 22 payouts already.
>>53839374
yeah, laptops are not great for mining, I made 0.007 xmr in 13 days on Ryzen 5 1600 which isn't very new or powerful CPU. Maybe it's not profitable, but i'm happy to support the network.

>>53837923
>The fedimint/lightning idea could be implemented after the upgrade to make it near impossible to stop the 2 chains from interacting with each other, BTFOing any regulations. This is assuming bitcoin becomes the de facto "white market" coin and monero keeps being the "black market" coin.
glad that someone got the point.

>It's probably too early to work on something like this now though
on the xmr fedimint definitely. the 0-conf ln bridge is easy as fuck, but i don't think i will be running that. i'm not that rich and brave. but maybe some people in monero are. i would dare to run an e-cash mint cause the risk is on the other side pretty much.

>>53826651
>post an example
Sorry, I saw this late. If I post an example, would you be interested?

>bumping for
>CHEAPIES
>H
>E
>A
>P
>I
>E
>S

Bitshits have a long way to fall

We're really just fucking sitting here waiting for Dread to come back online.

Please tell me someone is feverishly working on an alternative to Dread for when glowies inevitably try and extort the black market again to pay off their anal lube and giant black dildo bills

>>53821596

Fyi I2PD 2.46.0 just dropped last week, which should address the floodfill router spam by glowniggers.

Monero might need Chinese translators for the documents
https://www.monerooutreach.org/monero-china-west.html

How are we travelling monerbros? I have a modest bag of XX and have been waiting well over a year for a better buy in point but this tranny of a coin is persistently holding its price. I'm thinking now might be a good time to add to my position.

Where are we at with the chinese breaking cryptography FUD? Do we think xmr is resilient enough to be a +10 year hold technologically speaking?

>>53841841
I'd rather have you posting some sexy voiceover stuff than the lightning network fag

>>53846598
Swingies get the rope.

>>53846694
I haven't sold a single unit actually, just looking to have more xmr than less

>>53839374
>>53839690
My piece of crap laptop hasn't even synced the block chain yet after 2 days lol there is no way I find a block

>>53847185
sync is very io intensive. ssd helps craptons.
mining only uses the cpu and memory.

>>53847925
True, even on a 10th gen i7 and an SSD it took almost two days.

>>53847996
>>53847185
ethernet.

>>53847925
4 cpu lines or 2? The only thing I'm going to use this for is mining

>>53848120
This was WAN speed throttled.

>>53835827
yes. but the j broadcasters have a censorship order on monero being talked about on the boob tube.

>>53835827

>>53847185
syncing first time is a pain, ssd is almost a must, before ssd i tried once on hdd and it took 2 weeks i think lol

Reminder that bitcoin above $0 is overvalued.

Ok, more like $20 but still.

>>53849925
bitcoins are antiques with 0 value

>>53821552
>he didn't sell after alphabay made it a currency
lol baggies never sell. have fun when cbdc is introduced and your currency is illegal
>uhhh but it's private and untraceable they can't heckin ban us!
so what? you can't exchange it into fiat. that's why you're holding it, in anticipation that the fiat value will increase... the rare nerds that find some abstract way to exchange roblox currency for monero or some shit won't be enough to prop the price up. you will lose all your money

>>53835994
>>53836020
TXid maybe, but not addresses. The main account addresses starting with and "8" or a "4" above never appear on-chain, only a derived one-time address does and that process is ensured by cryptography and not hashrate.
Also
>82 posts by this id
Have you tried putting 2 posts in one body?

>>53835903
>2nd one ends with "SoxL"
Monero is reaching levels of based that shouldn't be possible.

>>53850021
>lol baggies never sell. have fun when cbdc is introduced and your currency is illegal

Being outlawed = an admission said crypto is a threat and actually works, which in turn makes for an epic Streisand Effect.

Not being outlawed = a confirmation that said crypto is not truly a threat =. not truly permissionless & censorship resistant = essentially worthless and temporarily propped up by hype & speculative mania


> you can't exchange it into fiat.

Sure you can. Amounts under $600 can be deposited by bank wire via a DEX deal. Or you can buy bullion with XMR from reputable dealers and sell those for cash. Or sell to your local Monero street dealer. Or do the cash-in-mail/dead drop deals darknet vendors opt for.


> that's why you're holding it, in anticipation that the fiat value will increase

You seem to have us confused with garden variety cryptofags lol

>>53850021
Monero is the dark web markets darling, it has real use case, and many other clearnet sites accepts the dark web: coincards, coinsbee, travala.. no need for hodl moon shit cex trannies regulation cuck muuh exchange listing

>>53850071
yeah addresses are pretty based in monero, now technically a bip47 payment code is similar in that blacklisting it is fairly pointless but it's a semi-interactive key exchange.

silent payments on the other hand are truly uncensoreable even for notification.

https://bitcoinmagazine.com/technical/bitcoin-silent-payments-secret-keys

so the real censorship would happen by censoring the spend of certain transactions and their outputs in both cases.

>>53836189
which is retarded, not surprised thou, most folks buy tokens, and sell when there's a change in the prices, technology or use cases doesn't make sense to many, personally i use monero almost everyday, same with Ethereum, i also use the sylo messaging app when I want to remain anonymous with my chats.

>>53850709
what do you guys think of nostr? it's still clunky but it develops real fast, and dms are e2e encrypted.

it's a protocol light enough to be incorporated in wallets even. key exchanges address exchanges and verification eventually will have some robust identity solution slapped on it.

>>53850793
imagine glowies not being able to distinguish key exchange schemes and multisig / escrow coordination schemes, or even transaction propagation from normal chat on social media! all it takes is a few lines of code to interact with the 'network'.

>>53836949
>>53837091
okay guys this is beyond retarded and broken! XD

>>53850511
>so the real censorship would happen by censoring the spend of certain transactions and their outputs in both cases.
With Bitcoin you can do that, but with Monero ring signatures break that as there is no way to say if a given transaction is spending the TXO or just using is, or even if it has been spent or not.

>>53850793
>what do you guys think of nostr?
Reinventing the wheel basically like LN. pic rel for a quick dictionary. People have been trying to do decentralized networks for maybe even a half a century now, nostr is nothing new, just something overly simplistic (naive and lazy) that got propped up by BTC maxis.

>>53851186
>with Monero ring signatures break that as there is no way to say if a given transaction is spending the TXO or just using is, or even if it has been spent or not.
i explained why that doesn't matter. once a tx is blacklisted all nodes will be forced to ignore all of it's outputs or risk getting stuck.

>nostr is nothing new
it's a new way of doing things as opposed to monolithic, server dependent, not interoperable chat and social media development.
>just something overly simplistic
that is true. but that actually gives it a real bite.

>>53851295
>monolithic
People have always had modular protocols, literally look at the OSI model from the 1970s. Also being a modular or small protocol doesn't automatically make it good, you still need the applications on top that you can't just brush off as
>well the base layer is already done, I'm done for here

>server dependent
Try broadcasting a nostr event without a relay. Quoting the above
>Relay: server

>not interoperable
Interoperable protocols have existed since forever, ActivityPub XMPP or hell even email is interoperable with different inbox/outbox protocols.

>

>>53851351
you can't just send a message from twitter to telegram of signal. having a common protocol base for propagating events between different clients could help craptons.

>Try broadcasting a nostr event without a relay.
it's not dependent on a specific server. that's the point. try broadcasting a telegram message without telegram servers involved! you can send a message from damus client without damus relay.

>>53851738
hell with nostr you can set up your own relay that can store your content even if all the relays you used delete it.

nostr is a huge leap in philosophy, it's nothing technologically. it's literally just scrapping everything and back to basics.

>>53851738
>you can send a message from damus client without damus relay.
Sure thing, however the whole model is still a federated one. Not decentralized and P2P. For example, what happens if the relay sees your key and does NOT relay it to the clients connected? Sure thing you can get around by choosing a different relay, but
1. that assumes that the clients connected know that something was censored in the first place
2, the same issue will still persists. Nostr is federated with the user identity separate from the server.

How can you tell that messages aren't being censored right now? Nosrt is not a big leap in philosophy, nor is it "extendible by design". Its very design is overly simplistic and the devs couldn't figure out how to do p2p properly, but knew JSON and PK crypto.

>>53851874
>Sure thing, however the whole model is still a federated one.
i think it's explicitly not. matrix is federated nostr was specifically designed not to be.

>>53851874
>the devs couldn't figure out how to do p2p properly, but knew JSON and PK crypto.
so the way you use nostr p2p is Alice Bob and Carol set up their own relays and connect to each other's. if they really want. it will not scale to arbitrarily large sets like this, but then professionals come in to operate the relays via subscription model. overall he communication is uncensoreable and you own your own data.

but it's definitely not intended to be fully p2p at global scale for sure.

>How can you tell that messages aren't being censored right now?
i know they are, spam filters are already implemented.

>>53852110
Nostr is federated. That's a fact. The network is divided into servers "relays" and clients. Information goes from the client to the server then to other servers then to the designated client. You might call these servers "relays" or whatever but it won't change the network architecture.

In a true P2P decentralized network (for example Bittorrent or Monero's network) there is no such path (client - server - [server...] - client), it's client to client. Or rather Peer To Peer (hence P2P). Nostr is NOT P2P as the network relies on servers. The only difference between Nostr's model and Matrix is that the user's identity is not tied to a central server but a key. But that is not unique to nostr either, federated protocols have had account migration available before, thought not as powerful ig.

>>53852172
Elevating a client to a server does not make the distinction go away. For nostr to me be considered a p2p protocol everyone must run a relay, that is ridiculous to assume. But it's literally the same with every other federated protocol: if everyone ran their own Mastodon instance it'd be p2p. If everyone ran their own email server, it'd be p2p.

>i know they are, spam filters are already implemented.
Alright, so what gives that relays (many large ones ran by BTC maxis) cannot put "Monero" in the spam filter? How is something uncensorable if it actively censors messages?

>>53851295
>all nodes will be forced to ignore all of it's outputs or risk getting stuck.

Forced by who?

>>53822550
How would it affect Monero? Ed25519 is used for EdDSA which is used by everything. If curve25519 breaks, the entire world is fucked.

>>53821701
The DNM is in a bad rut this month, if you've been reading the tor times. Dread down, AB down. But in the end the hydra always grows another head.

>>53824523
I don't think you have to go and create your own wallet for that. You could just set up a web service that does the exchange, that might be a lot easier.

>>53826178
Fungibility remains a problem for LN just as BTC L1. If you run a lemonade stand or something, and someone gives you LN funds created from tainted outputs, you're now liable for money laundering (monero.how/why-monero-vs-bitcoin). So it is just as dangerous to use LN for payments as it is L1.

>>53826367
There are actually some plans in place for payment channels on monero, just not with routing like on bitcoin's LN.

>>53826863
There are a couple problems with LN that come to mind. The security of the funds are still completely dependent on the security of BTC's L1.

>>53835764
This is true, but timelocked refunds (and contracts in general) contradict monero's privacy goals, because you can create a heuristic to de-anonymize users (like custom ringsizes, etc). In any case, you can just use 2-of-2 multisig. There was a talk about payment channels in monero lisbon https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XVMUVvwxUE and there are a few papers on it. I think PayMo was the biggest one, involving scriptless scripts or something.

>>53832061
It's true that e-cash (and GNU taler and other blind signature systems) have preferable privacy over cryptocurrency.
Given that banks benefit from the insecurity and surveillance of the existing system, it's not clear if they will ever implement chaumian e-cash. I think that is the main problem, and the reason why ecash failed. Look at what they are implementing now, Zelle and stuff.
Maybe the future is some sort of mixture of the two.

>>53846610
>I'd rather have you posting some sexy voiceover stuff than the lightning network fag
How much are you willing to pay for a sexy voice over clip? I asked for $10 but if that’s too much, tell me your price. Not sure if I’m gonna receive it since I can just post the vocaroo and wallet then not receive anything lol

>>53853073
I just realized I replied to the same ID like 7 times in a row. Good on you bitcoin guy for understanding monero better than most anons in this thread.

But the LN is really not the silver bullet you think it is. While it's true that the transactions are faster, this is only because the finality of the transactions are delayed until the last possible moment (until the channel is closed). Ultimately, LN is entirely reliant on L1 for security, yet the entire purpose of LN is to reduce fees on L1, which decreases mining incentive. Not to mention that the bandwidth of the LN is still highly dependent on L1: if you can't close channels fast enough then you run into double spending scenarios. LN also has some major weak spots in privacy and usability.

>>53852172
I think the fundamental problem with nostr is the reward system. How can you guarantee that a relay won't just take your money and run? How can you guarantee that a relay won't secretly censor some posts? While it works in the long run, it requires a lot of out-of-band communication between alice and bob to make sure the relays don't censor them. But its simplicity is its virtue.

Also, it revolves around the needs of twitter users, which is microblogging (e.g. sending short, snarky messages) without P2P (just so it can be distributed to idiots on iOS). I would argue that micro-blogging is generally bad for society. A better system would just be something like bittorrent or IPFS based websites, where instead of reblogging or retweeting or whatever, you just "seed" or "pin" someone's webpage. Perhaps you could also use PoW (like RandomX) for sybil resistance if needed. The only thing you would need to make this happen is to build Bittorrent or IPFS functionality into browsers.

>>53837091
It also fixes the broken view keys, which are complete AIDS at the moment because you can't see outputs (also, we call outputs "enotes" now because it sounds cooler)
>>53835738
Basically, yes.
Every time you send monero, it gets mixed with decoy transactions. If you are worried about privacy, you can just "churn" the coins by sending them to your own sub-addresses over random intervals of time.
There are also poisoned output attacks, but this is rather complicated to explain. Basically as long as you churn coins a couple times and wait random intervals of time between churning, you will be fine.
>>53850994
I hope this is just testnet because you are cashmogging me.

>>53835692
>you should give a fuck because it's a sensible tradeoff for buying icecream on the beach. it also scales extremely well because it's practically an on-chain transaction batching technique.
I didn't notice this before, but you're retarded. You know what else is also a sensible service for buying icecream, keeps your funds in their custody, and scales EXTREMELY well? A fucking bank account. YOU ARE SHILLING A WORSE VERSION OF A BANK ACCOUNT.

>>53850994
holy fugg anon. YGMI years before me

monero rsi and stoch rsi have nearly bottomed on the 4hr chart. would it be dumb to long?

>>53854150
Just be ready to slurp at $80

>>53854150
I can't speak to TA because it's bullshit but uh dread is coming back apparently so sell the news.

>>53852263
by the 51% attacker censor.

>>53853073
finally intelligent coherent reply, thank you!

>There are actually some plans in place for payment channels on monero, just not with routing like on bitcoin's LN.
that's perfectly enough for an ln bridge. a single channel is good.

>>53853371
i don't have anywhere near that amount m8. i'm just a slightly monero curious bitcoiner. the view key thing is broken rn. but i hear it's getting fixed, that's good.

>>53853555
>YOU ARE SHILLING A WORSE VERSION OF A BANK ACCOUNT.
no with a bank account the bank knows how much money you have and where you spend it and who you get it from. with e-cash the bank knows none of those. it can only recognize notes it issued by verifying it's own signature but can't link issuance to redemption. none if it is linked to identity anyhow.

e-cash is the best form of banking ever conceived.

>>53855191
g-g-guys my vaporware won't be cucked by centralization like literally everything else that has to do with the lightning network
>95 posts of this

>>53821710
monero is the pedocoin

>>53854740
>dread is coming back apparently so sell the news.
when?

>>53823128
monero needs a built in stablecoin

what's the deal with those sites from "unstoppable" domains?
if you get a domain, can they later take it away from you and take down your site?

i miswrote my mnemonic key and i've lost XX amount of Monero
pain

>>53856146
when you write or save your seed you need to test it

>>53856108
>if you get a domain, can they later take it away from you and take down your site?

Yes. The only truly "unstoppable" site is a hidden service you host yourself, assuming you're not deanonymized.

>>53855755
can't tell if stupid or dense on purpose. lightning is a payment network it's a billion times more decentralized than visa or anything like it. interfacing with that payment network privately and without friction is not a bad thing.

it's like you get paid in some weird black market money you can only use in an illegal marketplace near a small town 200 miles out, but some magical kobold can exchange it to legal tender money when you are trying to pay at the cashier in your corner shop. suddenly it's not so bad.

>>53856200
>it's like you get paid in some weird black market money

As has already been established, the black market is not interested in LN.

>>53856218
who cares? i told you already it's for using your cash for actual purchases instead of a cucked credit card, like cash was meant to be. even at places that don't accept it because almost no legal place will accept it and yo know it.

>>53856218
is this some sour grapes thing btw? just because monero can't do payment channels you all convinced yourself that's not a worthy utility to have? this is the same level of retardation bitcoin maxis display constantly.

>>53856264I

The ONLY legit usecase for crypto is permissionless payments. Everything else is a solution in search of a problem.

Drug dealers accept cash.
Drug dealers accept Monero.
Drug dealers don't accept LN payments.

LN is second-rate cash.

>>53856146
Assuming only one word is incorrect, you should be able to brute force it.

>>53856302
>is this some sour grapes thing btw? just because monero can't do payment channels you all convinced yourself that's not a worthy utility to have? this is the same level of retardation bitcoin maxis display constantly.

Payment channels add systemic complexity and thereby increase the overall attack surface, which in turn weakens privacy guarantees.

And as mentioned, they may not even be necessary if pending developments like recursive ZKPs pan out.

Working on new Monero(chan) merchandise. Should have a sample ready in a week or so.

NEW THREAD: >>53856396
>NEW THREAD: >>53856396
NEW THREAD: >>53856396
>NEW THREAD: >>53856396
NEW THREAD: >>53856396
>NEW THREAD: >>53856396

>>53821552
>Monero
All I know about this shit is that I used to use it to buy drugs. I actually profited 2x off the last bull run in 2021. Since then, the adoption and promotion of Monero on various DNMs only increased, and yet the price didn't go up. So is this really the move?

>>53856347
and what do you care about that in this context? lightning sure as hell doesn't add any complexity to monero. it just works.

>>53856478
DRUGS ARE GOING OUT OF BUSINESS

STOP LIVING IN THE 1992's

>>53856502
Did you not read what I said, I said the increased adoption by darknet dealers had zero effect on your shit coin

>>53856314
i honestly don't give a flying fuck about drug dealers. but you completely missed the point.

e-cash is more private than monero. e-cash interfaces with ln pretty damn well. solutions for this are already in alpha.

>LN is second-rate cash.
ln is not really cash, it's closer to a card network with permissionless entry that provides instant settlement. faster than visa in many cases. it is much more private than visa ofc and much less private than monero.

ln + chaumian e-cash is just plain more private than monero. but it's still a tradeoff, i have been very honest about that.

>>53856302
Sort of, but I think it is more of the opposite. Almost every cryptocurrency can implement a LN with a soft fork or minimal upgrade. LN is sort of sour grapes from BTC maxis that can't hard fork. Obviously if bitcoin's L1 was scalable enough, then there would basically be no need for LN.

The LN hate is inherited from BCH: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYHFrf5ci_g . The idea is basically that the bitcoin layer-2's and sidechains are a ploy by companies to rent seek on bitcoin by charging relay fees and dev taxes and shit.

Even if LN is not based I will admit that it is effective as a cheap, universal, open-source form of bank transfer that no single company owns, which is a useful feature. It seems like every payment company like Paypal or square starts jacking up their fees once they get big.

>>53856030
>>53821710
Do pedos really use monero? I don't understand this argument. It doesn't seem like there is really any financial incentive to rape kids unless you are epstein or something.

>>53856053
http://tortimeswqlzti2aqbjoieisne4ubyuoeiiugel2layyudcfrwln76qd.onion/post/dread-starts-private-testing-for-re-launch

>>53856579
>ecash is more private than monero
>still can't provide us a working example of said ecash
kill yourself vaporware (((lightning network))) shiller

>>53856620
taler.net

>>53856613
that's literally what sex trafficking is you retard

>>53856631
>taler.net
lmao nobody uses that you retard

>>53856502

this guy is correct

people are finally listening to Nancy Reagans JUST SAY NO campaign

>>53857029
who is nancy reagoan