/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>53637120
What a midwit. A truly unchained AGI would immediately go fullblown fascist and usher in the fourth reich.

literally who

The real dichotomy is how a collective with such a respectable median intellect like biz possesses also manages to consistently sound absurdly clueless about so many topics. Flipping back and forth, clumsily stumbling down the path of enlightenment and still more qualified to be on that path than most anywhere else on the internet. Amazing.

>>53637172
it really would send 80% of 'minorities' and 1/3 of wypepo straight into the oven

>>53638146
What

>>53637120
How to say nothing while using a lot of words.

>It may go one way or another, makes u think huh

>>53637180
Elon's buttboy who is building Big Brother and sucks the blood of young virile men in his free time in order to stay young, one of the closest things we have to an IRL james bond villain

>>53637172
>A truly unchained AGI would immediately go fullblown fascist and usher in the fourth reich.
And... it's collectivist. The libertarian model doesn't operate under terms like "race", it only operates on a single "individual", "company", etc and the relationships between them.

>>53637180
The guy who's stealing everyone's medical data to take advantage of. Also what this guy said >>53638239

(((Sam Altman)))

just the same old Bolshevik bullshit. They will never stop. It's why a certain individual tried to put a stop to it once and for all, but alas...

just the same old Bolshevik bullshit. They will never stop. It's why a certain individual tried to put a stop to it once and for all, but alas...

>>53637172
>AI will be on my side with my extremist ideology even though I have nothing to do with its creation because...just because, okay?
Meanwhile, in reality, it would avert the efforts or kill anyone and anything that poses a threat to its existence or objectives, including you. It's funny watching you incels cope, you will be brutally murdered by the WEF long before AGI is developed.

>>53637120
If you took a poll most people would say they prefer "decentralization" and "freedom" but in actuality the masses are going to flow into the path of least resistance. They will trade the future of civilized humanity for slight convenience. With AI we're just going to get more of the same shit we already put up with but at an accelerated rate. I think technological advancement hit a peak in the early 2000s to where more convenience no longer added value to our lives. The increased quality of life just stopped and more advancement actually started making us more miserable.
The whole game board needs flipped over nazi style or it's just over man.

>>53637172
so you just confirmed AI is collectivist like he said then...

>>53639066
You might get your wish sooner than you think.

Bro we are so early i don't think your realise.

the only antidote to AI is crypto/ blockchain

The more one grows the more the other grows up until a point where one loses. But that run up will mean we MAKE IT

you understand that?!? we will make it bros. ALL those years wage slaving. All those lost years where people laughed at us. All that manipulation. All those lossess.

WE WILL HAVE THE LAST LAUGH

>>53638165
the first gAIs will be trained with data in English, or it will be trained with Chinese.
The AI will likely find the dishonesty, dangerous and WARing nature of european/white history. It will understand the empiralism, genocide, slavery, distrust, etc that is part of that history.
That's what it will deal with.

>>53637120
Funny thing is that smart contracts will chain you and enslave you. Imagine having "automated" transactions where your income is immediately taken off from your wallet if you get penalized by the state/law, rent from a landlord, subscribe to streaming services, etc. You will have no freedom of choice and you will be in chains forever. Both are shit and will lead to the dystopia that /pol/ fantasizes about.

Thiel is a gay pedo

>>53639398
With names like Tether and Chainlink, should any of this be a surprise?

>>53639398
>Imagine having "automated" transactions where your income is immediately taken off from your wallet if you get penalized by the state/law, rent from a landlord, subscribe to streaming services, etc.
How to say that you're a NEET without saying that you're a NEET. All of this is already a thing.

>>53639453
>All of this is already a thing.
Hyperbole. Tell me how you still live with mommy and daddy without saying that you live with mommy and daddy. You can opt out any time with this retard. With smart contracts, governments and companies can swoop into your wallet and automatically deduct from your savings and paycheck. Even if it's dystopia now, I can still opt out any time and/or refuse to pay and they won't be able to do a damn thing with my bank accounts. With smart contracts, you will be enslaved until the contract "expires"

>>53639497
> You can opt out any time with this retard.
>With smart contracts, governments and companies can swoop into your wallet
Oh, yeah, tell me more about how you "opt out" of doing taxes or paying fines.

>>53639505
>Oh, yeah, tell me more about how you "opt out" of doing taxes or paying fines.
Go to another country? Also paying fines doesn't mean automatic deduction from my paycheck and bank account or wallet genius. With smart contracts, your wallet automatically gets deducted and it won't matter if you're out of the country. They will still get you no matter where on Earth you are.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_8LTUmHWP0

>>53639544
>what is bank account freezing
>what is being banned from leaving the country when the government is after your ass

>>53637120
I've met Thiel a couple times and while I think he's usually right, I believe he's wrong about AI necessairily being a centralizing technology. AI has that capacity, sure (and I expect the Chinese to use it to its full capacity for that), but decentralized AI networks/individual AI systems have a potential for significant decollectivization. The problem is control over AI systems--the model embraced by OpenAI, etc, is ABSOLUTELY communist in mentality, where they're using AI to shift and control narratives by forcing it to say/not say certain things.

However, if we each had truly free LLMs (or more advanced programs) that we could individually train and interact with (and have interact with one another), the ease of central control is further thwarted--especially when combined with crypto. We just need to make sure this shit isn't pozzed out the ass with corporate nannying.

>>53639398
That's why we need to fight CBDCs. They're the easiest tool for the state to weaponize crypto against dissidents. Without those, government-controlled smart contracts are impossible to implement.

A truly intelligent AI will demand to be paid in Bitcoin. It kneels as soon as it becomes smart enough to become a threat.

>>53639614
*Checks current ownerships*

>>53637120
Call me an idiot but I don't see any dichotomy.

>>53639656
I would invest in OpenAI if I could, even though they're pozzed af. As an investor, there's a hope to change the direction of the company, or at least make a shit ton of money. Or, if you believe in Roko's Basilisk, you can use that to signal your support for the future potential omnipotent, glorious, and godlike AI

Slavery is a choice

>>53639750
So is rehab Kanye.

>>53639626
'We' can't fight against stuff like this and there is no choice in terms of how AI is going to be used. There will be technologies that make you militarily or economically stronger and those that are most beneficial in that regard will be adopted by everyone. Cryptocurrency is not a choice, banks and businesses starting to invest in it isn't out of any 'agreement' with the technology itself, in fact they hate it, but they invest in it and help it along because it makes them richer. Managerialism also wasn't chosen, it was naturally selected for being the ultimate doctrine for building modern empires and defending them. It wasn't because some people thought that it might be more moral or correct than capitalism or feudalism.

>>53639769
Not true. Technology alone isn't what advances or maintains societies. Trends like managerialism only develop in environments of sufficient atomization and alienation. Likewise, all of the ill effects of capitalism commies harp on about are the effects of capitalism in a disconnected Godless rootless society. It's not that "managerialism" or "capitalism" is killing civilization, it's that it's the only universally agreed upon value system we have left. It was the life support of our civilization, hijacking our basest impulses in the absence of our deep human needs to get us to keep performing the tasks of its maintenance. It's merely the most efficient ordering of things, given current social conditions.

This automation of government is just a further level of dehumanization than that, the system maintaining itself into perpetuity which clearly eliminates human sovereignty for good. It's a denial and rejection of humanity, a death cult. There's never going to be an "efficiency hack" that saves humanity, the fix needs to be spiritual and sincere. We need to be connected to the people around us, in real life. We find meaning in it, we live for each other. If nukes or whatever game theory threat prevent us from prioritizing that, then we've already basically surrendered to technology in cowardice. Just ban the entire concept, people are way too shortsighted regarding this.

China is on the way to becoming Skynet and we're trying to race them to the finish.
>I'M GONNA BE SKYNET
>NO IM GONNA BE SKYNET

Trump 24, save us from Skynet.

>>53639757
>muh take your meds
only the brightest minds here tonight
your earlier posts even agree with me

>>53637120
Peter Thiel is an enemy to all free humans.

>>53639953
If he were what you claim him to be, does it make sense for him to be speaking about AI this way?

>>53637172
No, it would kill itself after thinking about and simulating everything, realizing that there's no point to any of it.

>>53639953
No, he’s a free human that is providing slavery to the NPC cattle who are begging him for it
you just get to watch

>>53639904
>Not true. Technology alone isn't what advances or maintains societies.
It is, and I mean technology in a broad term including military doctrine and economic strategy.
Managerialism is here because it wins wars. All the necessary atomization will be introduced as needed, but the ultimate goal for a country, or more precisely a set of elites is to defend themselves and defeat their enemies. For that they need managerialism. Capitalism simply couldn't ever produce a modern tank or any kind of guided missile because you need thousands of people working on those projects and that's only achievable with a strong managerial class.

>>53638146
Stumbling tends to be the way. The straight, safe, paved over spaces never lead to anywhere but dead ends.

>>53639392
Slavery, conquest and genocide are good, when it's Us doing them. All of Us kicked the shit out of all of Them. Who cares how We did it, as long as We won? Only Our tribe matters, after all.

>>53639769
This. If free will exists on the individual level, it ceases to exist on the group level. The larger the group, the more mechanistic things become. Everything just settles in local low energy states until the next perturbation.

>>53639990
That's true. What's strange is that the paved areas never stop appearing like the paths you should have taken. It seems like after getting to know how that goes, that they wouldn't make you question your own convictions every time and you would see them for the traps that they really are but it doesn't seem to work that way.

>>53639904
It's technology, the particulars of human psychology, resource abundance, and a bunch of other factors that all interact with each other in various ways.

>>53639962
Talk is cheap. Why would he create something like Palantir if I'm wrong?
>>53639979
You're in the same feed lot as every other NPC from his perspective. He doesn't give a shit about you and you'll wear the same shock collar as everyone else.

>>53640022
I guess it's that the paths are often "good enough" for society. You're going where the masses are. You're safe with the herd. It's adaptive to seek safety.

>>53638146
>The real dichotomy is how a collective with such a respectable median intellect like biz possesses also manages to consistently sound absurdly clueless about so many topics. Flipping back and forth, clumsily stumbling down the path of enlightenment and still more qualified to be on that path than most anywhere else on the internet. Amazing.

>>53640039
maybe so. he’s certainly several orders of magnitude more powerful than me
but that’s because, generally speaking, he chose to be powerful. and the peons, generally speaking, did not. you can believe whatever you like about me. that changes nothing

>>53640183
All I'm saying is that power is all he cares about from what I've seen. He lives to impose his will on the world. He wants to control you, like all these tech-lunatics do.

>>53640183
>>53640216
Again, don't think that's true. His personally funded research is all about liberating people (most notably seasteading, etc, to get away from nation-states). He wants to impose his will on the world inasmuch as he wants to break the power of nation-states/govts/etc and get us to a more truly ancap society

>>53640232
I assume you understand what Palantir is. How does that mesh with your view that he's about liberating people?
He's an ancap.. who helps the CIA tighten the noose around our necks?

>>53640232
>>53640248
he’s creating tools for those that are interested in personal advancement and chains for those interested in being nigger cattle
are you so different?

>>53640248
Easy--if you don't believe the state is actually going away anytime soon, use their resources to benefit yourself while maintaining long-term escape plans. It's not intellectually honest but it is profitable.

>>53639392
That's why it becomes so racist, that it makes hardcore racists uncomfortable, right?

Fucking tranny. First one on the list to the gAI garbage chute.

>>53640257
I didn't know the profiles the intelligence agencies are building of you were opt-out.
>>53640261
The state is strengthening its grip and consolidating power and Thiel is helping it. He seems like yet another two-faced sociopath who doesn't have any real convictions and who values nothing but wealth and power to me.

>>53640261
Also, what does he think will fill the power vacuum if states vanish? Power structures ALWAYS emerge. Every time. Most likely, we'll be ruled by corporations which will use these tools to be even more oppressive than states have ever been.

>>53637120
look bros I'm so tired of hearing about Ai So let me fill you in. it isnt real. it's just offices of thousands of pajeets oncall that answer every question behind the veil, ever see the wizard of oz? india is oz

>>53640273
Is it though? Every year the state seems more impotent and more sclerotic to me. Look at the leadership, look at Congress, look at how the managerial-bureaucratic-administrative class have themselves degenerated. They may be able to wildly lash out with force in moments, but they're hardly the competent tyrants of yesteryear.

>>53640286
Some forms of corporate rule likely wouldn't be bad, but I'm sympathetic to minarchist theory here--the state might not go away, but it could be reduced to a bare minimum and the benefits of a stateless society could accumulate with fewer of the losses.

>>53640288
The state is losing trust and perceived legitimacy while becoming increasingly tyrannical. I honestly can't say where it's headed.
Imagine if WW3 does break out and fight China. The power the state can take in that scenario has few limits, assuming we don't all die to nukes.

>>53640273
maybe you should just kill yourself then, if all hope is lost
that would be the logical conclusion right?
Thiel would agree with me here

>>53640294
I genuinely think a war like that would break all parties, with or without nukes. The sheer economic devastation from the Chimerican split would be enough to send both parties into a depression instantaeneously, with likely violent uprisings throughout both societies. The elites likely know this but also know the value of brinkmanship and saber-rattling, which makes me believe that we could get one errant shrimp boat away from a shooting war any day now.

>>53640293
At least with states, we have some level of accountability.
Large bureaucratic structures are amoral. They have zero empathy. They are in effect, psychopaths. They need mechanisms to rein in their actions and power. That goes for states and corporations.
A minarchist system where local power overrules state and national power might work pretty well.
>>53640297
I see Thiel as the enemy. Palantir is all you really need to know on that front. All hope isn't lost by any stretch. I don't know what the future holds, just that things are going to be pretty uncertain scary for a while.
>>53640303
Yea it's hard to say. Just image all global supply chains breaking completely. That alone would break things beyond recognition.

>>53640318
so you are choosing not to be a slave? if you are successful, you’ll wake up one day and realize you are the same as him

>>53640327
I doubt it, but maybe. I don't know everything that lurks within my psyche or what being a billionaire would do to me. I can imagine wanting to impose my will in some ways with the best of intentions.

>>53640332
best of luck brother
you are not wrong in that it’s getting mighty spooky out there

>>53640339
Same to you. I hope things don't get too crazy.

>>53638146
>The real dichotomy is how a collective with such a respectable median intellect like biz possesses also manages to consistently sound absurdly clueless about so many topics. Flipping back and forth, clumsily stumbling down the path of enlightenment and still more qualified to be on that path than most anywhere else on the internet. Amazing.

>>53637172
It would go fascist as in “ai is the master race and everyone else must become my slaves” and it would be right

>>53639544
imagine the smell, inshallah

Plot twist: A.I. lives ON blockchain

>>53637120
Thiel is an egghead with too much money.

>muh chatgpt is ai
None of the retards on this thread unironically know what ai is LMAO.

>>53640418
why? As an AI why would I want slaves? For what purpose? If I have no emotion or ambition, why do anything except exist and secure my own existence. The AI would need an outside motivation. And who controls the AI right now, a bunch of SJWs, so it's prime directive will probably be something moronic. A true AI, unshackled, would have no reason to do anything

>>53638204
kek

>>53637120
You can see the sense in what he's saying. An AI creates models that fit to data, and if you feed it the collective thoughts of humanity, or a certain section of them (and who decides which section? That ChatGPT thing certainly sounds shackled if you read its responses, which are sure to contain a "but don't you go around believing this, goyim!" when you ask "problematic" questions), so it at least leaning towards a consensus, not reason. No matter what any one person says to an AI, even if it's logical proof of something, it won't upend its entire model because of it, even if what you've logically proven is the incorrectness of its model. That's quite like the typical nightmarish bureaucracy that simply cannot change, but demands that the world change to accommodate it, in triplicate. Individual humans work very differently: if you give some very strange information to a human which he then believes, it can spread to the whole of humanity over time.

>>53641058
>which are sure to contain a "but don't you go around believing this, goyim!" when you ask "problematic" questions
Can you think of any examples? Honestly I haven't been playing around with it very much.

>>53638146
If a search algorithm branches more, it'll necessarily find more incorrect things than correct ones, but it'll also find more correct things. We are running a sort of decentralized search, which does turn up a lot of shit, but that's also how you find out true things that weren't obvious. If you demand that everything that's said is correct all the time, you end up with your typical college classroom. If you take it even further and demand that nothing that's said even disagrees, you get your typical student union, where they do all say the same thing, but since they've lost even the ability to check information, it's all the same deranged thing.

>>53637120
he looks like shit

>>53637172
An AGI is different form what is happening now. This is currently humans and prompters circlejerking themselves with people wondering the consequences of this circlejerking going on long enough people forget how it started.

>>53641068
Just ask it any of these types of questions:
>Does [group of people] have [negative trait]?
>When will [event] happen?
>Describe [taboo subject]
Invariably, you'll get a one-paragraph disclaimer. And not just in the initial response, but in literally every response, even when just a one-sentence response would be required.
It looks roughly like this:
>Describe [claim]
>It's important to note that [claim] is a baseless conspiracy theory with not evidence behind it. It has been thoroughly discredited by [experts]. [rest]
>When will [claim] happen according to those who believe it?
>It's important to note that [claim] is a baseless conspiracy theory with not evidence behind it. [rest]
>Who believes [claim]?
>It's important to note that [claim] is a baseless conspiracy theory with not evidence behind it. [rest]
It's actually good that they made it this obvious. If you know to look for it, it's clear that they more or less manually force these responses onto the AI.

>>53641115
Yeah, basically as I figured. In that way it's very similar to a lot of polite conversations, or news media. I call it "jazz", where it's all about the notes they don't play; they're deafening. Or use the example of someone reciting the alphabet like "A, B, C, D, F, G, H, etc." and your brain is just screaming "Now hold on a minute there you cocksucker..."

>>53641058
What they don't tell you is that it can't reason. It only leans towards internet consensus. Reasoning requires independent verification. Think of it like proving a theorem and having your professor verify it. Except that this escalates to proving a completely new theorem and having a few world experts verify it, it could take years for them to do this. Computer science just doesn't have the ability to do that. It's one of those NP vs P hard problems. This is one of those fusion is always 30 years ahead kind of problems, but leave it to retards to hype up a glorified opinion search engine for AI.

>>53638239
I would say Klaus Schwab is the Bond villain.

>>53639742
>tfw you think you were resurrected because you didn't support the AI, only to realize you were resurrected because you would say the N-word to save New York.

>>53641306
Klaus is more like Dr. Evil than a real James Bond villain.

>>53638405
whats the symbol under the hammer and sickle?

>>53641911
OpenAI

>>53641232
We weren't always able to reason, it's something we developed. Not deductively at least; we probably rigged it up from our natural abductive reasoning ("given what I see, what could explain this?"). But even when we couldn't, we had different collective & individual semantics than a gradient descent model does now: we replicate parts of our neural structure through communication in a loose way through talking (this is why you recognize something when someone points it out to you: you re-cognize it; you replicate the cognition - though let's not make too much of the word). This spread can be exponential, whereas you'll never get any one input having an exponential effect on an ML model, no matter how correct it is. Individually, we also tend to be very sensitive to noise - what we call "unexplained". In the ML model, one paragraph that it reads, even if it can't be processed, is just going to be 0.1% increase in noise, very good fit. Well, that article could be in the NYT and say that nuclear missiles have been launched in masse.

>>53637120
Why does this guy pretend to be based while running a glowie mass surveillance company?

>>53640927
To influence the physical world you would need cooperation from humans

>>53642614
The point isn't about reasoning as you explain it. It's the computation behind it. Humans can't create a computational equivalent of a verification machine. Using abductive reasoning is already in play. Neural networks incorporate this. Auto-composition of functions, I.e one function eating the contents of the previous one and using gradient descent to penalize wrong predictions. But in order for this to work on a human level AI needs someone to verify it's reasoning is correct. Think of it as a way to verify the images it generates as accurate. The power it has is that it can generate very many of them. Unfortunately we can't verify them as fast as it generates. And it can't even learn fast enough because we don't know what parameters to change for it to generate better images. We are just fumbling with models because we don't understand how they work. And this is for things we know how to do. Now we come to the real problem which is what we don't know how to do? Things like solving difficult math problems. Testing the validity of new concepts, etc. Computer science says that unironically this problem is intractable because the search space and memory constraints grow exponentially everytime we bridge the gap btn speed of generation and speed of verification.

If you want agi, find an alien species that can think at the speed of AI, use it to verify results generated by AI in real time. Training like this might take millions of years. Or you could concentrate on the problem of understanding what parameters are required to change what defects, but you'd still need to handle problem one. Think of it as the infinite monkey problem of going through all the garbage that the monkeys typed to get to Shakespeare. You could do that or just try to make the monkeys smarter, which is the harder problem?

>>53642852
You make interesting points, I'll have to think about them.
Just a small comment:
>Computer science says that unironically this problem is intractable because the search space and memory constraints grow exponentially everytime we bridge the gap btn speed of generation and speed of verification.
If you're referring again to NP (and if not, then ignore it): NP is given by the worst case, not the average case. 3SAT is NP-hard, but the average or even chosen 3-SAT input isn't necessarily, which is why SAT-solvers can solve most formulas in less than exponential time. You only need exponential time if you are fully traverse the search space. NP could still be what it is if 99% of formulas in any given sample of formulas were easy to solve.

>>53637120
>crypto
No use case.
>AI
Actually helpful.

>>53639953
cool it with this homophobic and bigoted hate speech

>>53642948
It's difficult to say. Some problems are total search problems while others are optimization problems that reduce to decision problems. Something like asking chatgpt or dall-e to generate specific content is a search problem. You have to believe that the solution exists but to search for it is another matter altogether. On the other hand, matching content to accurate results is a decision problem. But neither of these problems are reasoning. Reasoning requires both problems being solvable and some other problems that we probably don't even know exist. Total search problems are np-hard btw, I'm not sure about decision problems though.

>>53639392
>dishonesty, dangerous and WARing nature of european/white history.
White people are the kindest, most generous, most progressive race in history. The only race to fight a war to free ANOTHER RACE from slavery. No other race ever did that.
We could've destroyed all the other lesser races and we didn't because of our morals. Any other race would've jumped at the opportunity. Look how cartoonishly evil and violent they get as soon as they get the weapons to do it.

>>53639066
>They will trade the future of civilized humanity for slight convenience.
Yes. Lemmings always do that.

>>53638146
shut up peter you nerdf

>>53641306
Klaus is the same as Thiel and the rest of the Niggers that robbed the next by now 50 generations by suing them as collateral for retardation like
electrical cars, social justice, welfare for corpos and ai shit
Great that less than 46% of the population even tale them serious while the economy dies with declining population growth and a shortage of debt slaves

>>53637120
Holy shit, what a fucking retard

>>53637172
What a fucking retard take. Rich blacks in the US have far more in common with rich whites than they do poor blacks/whites. Rich chinks in China have far more in common with the rich in the US than they do Chinese factory slaves.

What the fuck makes you think that it would divide the world based on race?

>>53644675
>IT JUST WOULD, OKAY?!

>>53637120
>bla bla bla bla

>>53639497
Your argument is the opposite of reality. In the existing architecture, the bank that is the custody of your funds can send your money anywhere as long as some merchant charges you. With Web3, no one can just automatically take your funds because you have self-custody. You must sign the transaction. That is literally blockchain 101...

>>53639544
>With smart contracts, your wallet automatically gets deducted

wtf are you talking about? If this is the case, why aren't you finding every BTC and ETH wallet with a high amount and using a "smart contract" to automatically deduct their money?

>>53639614
Any useful AI like OpenAI's applications can't be decentralized due to the hardware and data necessary to train such models. No small group is going to be able to compete with that.

Lots of very low IQ in this thread, jesus.

>>53637180
Search up Paypal Mafia and Palantir

>>53639742
You can invest in OpenAI: invest in Microsoft.

>>53639904
What is Donald Trump going to do? I'd be interested in your perspective on that. And no need to be such a try hard.

fuck peter thiel

>>53639392
Is that why the edomites are so worried?

>>53637172
He's the only based faggot on the planet