/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>53587079
>central banks are working?
They aren't. HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA

>>53587079
sounds like my little baby has finally woken up.

>>53587079
I think the idea is you're supposed to engage in trade with another country, which increases your wealth by converting their currency to yours. So you lend me $100 at 2%, I made $104 from selling logs to China, now your debt is coveted and we both profited

That's the beauty of it. No one is forcing you to adopt this system, but because people do it allows them to enslave your future energy with money that doesn't exist.

This only works because you participate in the system. They couldn't get away with it if it wasn't for YOU.

>>53587079
>Maybe I'm retarded
/thread

>>53587079
>>we must print more

>>53587120
Where Chinese will take $4 if central bank printed only $100 and you has this $100?

>>53587079
The central bank doesn't just start off with nothing, it's a slow boil. They first have real assets and then slowly devalue them with fractional reserve banking and then on to zero reserve banking that we see now. The debt must always stay increasing for their system to keep working. They don't just give only you a 2% loan they give out many other loans so that someone can create a business or build a house so you can then work as a laborer to pay back your 2%.

>>53587133
this kek

>>53587234
>They don't just give only you a 2% loan they give out many other loans so that someone can create a business or build a house so you can then work as a laborer to pay back your 2%.

I don't see how increasing amount of loans solve the problem.

Let's assume that central bank printed $100 and lent to 100 different banks for a year at 2% rate. Every bank get $1 and should repay $1.02. All banks combined should repay $102, but how they can do it if only $100 exists?

>>53587079
You lend your $100 to some other sucker at a 4% rate, and "pay off" your debt with a loan slip from the other guy. Congrats, now that bloke owes you 2 cents even though you did jack shit.

>>53587367
They just loan out more money before the past loans come due. Like I said, the total debt in the system must always continue to increase for their system to keep working.

It works until:

Option 1 there is so much cash in circulation that nobody believes in there money system anymore because it takes a million dollars to buy an egg.

Option 2 They decide to give out less loans or no loans and the system implodes because the debt is defaulted by a few big players and there is no cash for the next guy to pay his loan and because of that the next guy can't pay his and so on.

>>53587120
but when the state starts implementing increasingly punitive protectionist measures how am i supposed to trade?

someone post the meme of the guy who just started noticing things

>>53587079
First off, central banks don't print money, commercial banks do. Banks print the principal but not the interest. So if the money supply stops growing, it would collectively be impossible to pay off older loans.

>>53587079
Central banks only lend to commercial banks. Commercial banks are allowed to loan out ious as if they were real money. Under a reserve requirement of 5%, you would take the $100, make $2000 worth of loans, and charge interest on it (which has to be repaid from other banks making loans). The interest does not actually exist, and new loans must be made to pay the interest on the old ones.

The reserve requirement right now is zero. Banks are allowed to create money; you are a slave. Everything is fake and gay.

>>53587122
>This only works because you participate in the system. They couldn't get away with it if it wasn't for YOU.
Yep. The money only gets created once you agree to owe it back to them. Perfect slave system.

they print money and loan it to someone else. You have to steal it from them. Then they file for bankruptcy

>>53587079
>how I will earn this $2 if central bank printed only $100 at all?
you take a $102 loan at 2% to pay the other back, and on and on and on

>>53587079
Some good replies already, but the way I would put it is:
Now, somebody has to borrow $102 to pay off your original loan. For example I could borrow $102 and hire you so that you can earn that $102 to pay off your loan. Of course now I'll owe the bank $104.04, so somebody else will have to borrow $104.04 to hire me so I can pay off my loan.
Ultimately, the total supply of dollars must grow exponentially just to maintain this system.

JFK issued debt free, interest free money once through the treasury bypassing the federal reserve
He was killed a few months later

>>53588268
Oh and also, just to avoid sounding uninformed, it is technically commercial banks, not the central bank who issue new dollars. Although pointing this out is a little like pointing out that it's the spokes of a wheel instead of the hub that pushes the rim into the ground. The relationship is not quite that direct, but its not like central banks and commercial banks are totally separate systems.

>>53587153
They give you $4 in equivalent value of Yen and you convert it to dollars. Your money and their money has some agreed exchange rate so that's one way you build the amount of available money, by getting it from other people.

>>53587079
well you'd have to borrow the two dollars you don't have wouldn't you?
or maybe someone else could borrow two dollars and you could work for two dollars?

>>53588307
Blompf could never

>>53587079
>Theoretical answer
The money you're using on interest payments reenters circulation through other loans and overhead costs like wages paid by the bank, allowing some of the same dollars to be applied to the debt multiple times.

>Real answer
They just print more dollars and the money supply just exponentially increases.

>>53587079
The Federal Reserve can't print dollars, they can only make bank reserves.

Physical Dollars are printed by the US Treasury and issued by the Federal Reserve.

You also can't borrow money from a central bank, you can only borrow money from a commercial bank. Commercial banks create bank deposits when they make a loan, they don't need any reserves to do it.

>Now I should repay $102, but how I will earn this $2 if central bank printed only $100 at all?

>Assuming that I'm first borrower of dollars in history

That wouldn't happen. You would either use that $100 to buy goods from other businesses, who are also taking out loans from commercial banks, or you would use that $100 to start a buisness to sell goods and services, which people would pay you $ for.

>>53587079

Basically you understand the scam now. There will never be enough value to pay back all of the debt that has been created.

Its perpetual slavery and these people should be shot. Anytime a country tries to remove to back its own currency by labor, gold, oil etc the a coup is organized and the leader is overthrown and murdered.

Every time. Central banking is probably most responsible for the ills of the planet right now.

If it were me instead of destroying the current system because that is much too difficult and easier to stop, I'd simply start a church that collects donations and uses them to create a trust which invests in either precious metals or shareholding that pays dividends like oil and split some it evenly among the congregation while some is reinvested DRIP method. If you are a member you get some kind of payment each month. This is where your tithe goes.

Otherwise use some of the donations to pay the bills on the church property, utilities, and community meals all made from scratch. Labor would be strictly volunteer based.

There is no sermon, we just get together every Sunday to discuss what the community needs, whether it be broad and general or perhaps specific to a certain member" in an open forum that is moderated by the "pastor".

Thing that are achievable and where real action can be taken to move the needle.

>>53591761
but muh gadaffi had female guards!!! Even though women can do everything men can do it's obviously suspect that he decided to showcase have an amazonian guard and he should be killed for portraying women in such an physically empowered light, because it wasn't the western version of empowerment.

>>53587079
Ask Andrew Jackson, he paid off the national debt. The only President to ever do so.

>>53592343
I'm not really sure what you are trying to say here.?

Gadaffi was killed because he was switching his country to a gold standard if I remember correctly. He was trying to get around the US and central banking system and was a coup was formulated in response to it.

>>53587089
>>53587094
>>53588307
>>53591761
Holy based
>>53587122
>No one is forcing you to adopt this system
The government does via taxes.

>>53587079
you borrow 100$ at a 1% rate you lend it someone at a 2% rate he borrows 102$ at a 1% rate and he pays you back,repeat the cycle thats why there always needs to be a slight amount of inflation and perpetual growth and debt for things to function

also deflation makes debt harder to pay which causes a death spiral/negative feedback loop

>>53587079
you just printed 2 dollars, most money is "printed" at whatever bank the goys do business with
look up the evolution of money by david byrne he evengives it away for free on the amazon page in the discription

>>53587089
fpbp
>>53587079
Congratulations, you're now learning that central banking is an usurious shitpile and they all should be Minecrafted by incels
>>53591761
I like this idea. I feel like there will be more community projects like these in the coming years since more and more people are realizing that the bureaucrats and statists aren't cutting it.
>Anytime a country tries to remove to back its own currency by labor, gold, oil etc the a coup is organized and the leader is overthrown and murdered.
The BCEAO is probably the worst of them all. They are going straight to the Eighth

>>53594525
These 2 dollars aren't free. They need to be paid back as well plus interest. There now is a deficit of $2.04. Congratz, you made it worse.

>>53587079
Under our current monetary system, money is created when banks issue loans. But when banks issue loans, only the principal is added to the money supply, not the interest on debts. So in our system, debt always exceeds the money supply. As of 2021, the total money supply in the United States (M2 measure) was approximately $19.3 trillion. But the national debt was approximately $28 trillion. There's not enough money in the system to pay off the national debt. To pay back interest on existing loans, the money supply must constantly expand through the issuance of new loans. At some point, the debt load becomes so high that you run out of borrowers and the lending stops. Then the money supply contracts and there is not enough money being added to the system to pay interest on existing loans. Borrowers begin to default. When they default, the lenders can seize their assets. This system creates a repeating cycle of monetary expansions and contractions. Monetary expansions cause inflation. Monetary contractions cause deflation. Inflation, deflation, confiscation. It's why bankers own the world.

>>53587079
you get someone else's dollars by working for them or engaging in trade. or, you don't pay it back and they garnish your wages

>>53587079

>>53594555
Fucking based

>>53587079
You'll have to take something out of the ground with your labor to pay them back

>>53587079
they loan them from the ayys

>>53587367
>I don't see how increasing amount of loans solve the problem.
System works until there is growth in the economy, population. If not...

>>53591761
Really, really cool idea. Thanks for sharing it

>>53587829
>The interest does not actually exist,
what you mean?