/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>53179242
The ideal economic system is pic related, but the international elites didn't like it.

>>53179242
Yeah but the real question is what the best tax strategy looks like and what the government should do with those taxes. A US sovereign wealth fund would be ballin out but instead we gave it all to Jews, masons, and pedophiles.

You can't have a mixed system. That's entirely contradictory to Marxism and reality as a whole. The reason socialist economies collapsed the world over is because they integrated themselves with the capitalist ones.

Useless thread

>>53179283
>Without giving up his individuality or personality
>Interests as an individual must be in consonance with those of the community

>>53179382
"You are allowed to choose your life path and become rich with your own ideas and businesses, as long as you treat your workers well and respect our laws and values. We are not going to tolerate corruption, tax evasion, labour exploitation, degenerate antisocial behaviour etc. Our people, culture and nation are actually more important to us than the endless greed of some big capitalist."

I think that the best economic system is the one made by Antonio de Oliveira Salazar.

>>53179357
True, North Korea actually has a higher average level of wealth than say Vietnam despite the global trade embargo enforced by USA.

>>53179242
>is the ideal economic system our current system
clearly not, faggot

>>53179382
There are natural values that any person can have which are good for both individuals and collectives. Such as race, nationalism and gender roles, none of which are to be held dogmatically except when they're under attack.

>>53179242
>>53179283
>>53179348
>>53179357
>>53179367
>>53179382
>>53179760
>>53180409
>>53180614
>>53180635
>>53180637
It's time to take your pills and stop relying on retards trying to solve every problem in the world with a perfect peepeepoopoo "system" that never ever fails and is bulletproof against evolutionary forces.

From marxistoids circlejerking with their own theories as if they perfectly reflect reality itself to nazis pretending kikes will be gone once you exterminate them you're all a bunch of losers that will get nothing out of this.

>>53180409

The one that had the biggest % of illiterate people in western Europe, despite having the means to correct it? Not to mention misery on a scale nowadays only found in shithole countries?

Salazar was trash and a traitor to his people. It's a shame he never shared Mussolini's fate.

For the millionth time socialism is not when the government intervenes in the economic system of capitalism. The best version of capitalism is deff one where market failures are corrected by governmental bodies such as Roads, Fire departments, and large market failures such as 2008 in which such economic collapses could ruin the lives of millions and millions of people and totally devastate the economy.

However, capitalism is not the best economic system possible and, just as feudalism in the past, was replaced by capitalism we should strive to replace capitalism with socialism: E.G; An economic mode of production codified by the production of commodities not for profit, but, for need and utility. Where private property is socialized and operated democratically rather than autocratically under the hand of one individual or a board of directors where basic needs are provided to everyone.

That is socialism.

>>53179242
I think so but this has nothing to do with communism in any way

>>53180673
Societies that have a vision of the future are societies that are healthy. Our society has replaced out narrative of history and the future with vapid and mindless consumption. Just because you lack the vision to interpret history and the progression of society in a positive direction don't take it out on everyone else who isn't as nihilistic as you.

cope.

>>53180712
>>53180723
As i said previously, marcistoids circlejerking with their own theories, so blinded by their own holistic approach in human evolution not only they believe market economies were not "capitalism" before the death of feudalism , they also think everything is possible if you change the system.

>>53180749
Capitalism is not "any time two people trade anything" That is a completely retarded definition for obvious reason and only brainlets subscribe to such an idealistic definition for obvious reasons.

Marxist definitions of capitalism are much more accurate and have a much more firm foundation. You are a retard parroting the same one liners you have heard from retards in your retard circle.

Cope.

You guys act like the Scandinavian counties don't exist and aren't full of the happiest people. Happy being the Normal people there not the incels on 4chan. I've been to all of them

>>53180772
They have fully consumed the free market capitalist kool-aid propaganda.

>>53180763
And you're another retarded socialist faggot with nothing but made up problems created by your "analysis" and nothing but rethoric to convince others to join your circlejerk.
>Capitalism is not "any time two people trade anything"
Of course you're also a liar, the end goal is to eliminate exchange value and to do that you must destroy markets.

>>53180778
>kool-aid
socialists invented the kool-aid meme by killing themselves for their dumb ideas

Communism follows the natural law of the world. I’m sure you’ve heard the adage
>the kind horse gets ridden.
That’s why China is a powerhouse.

>>53180772
> I've been to all of them
Damn tourist. Newsflash, we’re not happy. We had the highest suicide rates in the world before the immigrants came and kind of beat us to the punch, so to speak.

>>53180789
>lol you just made up problems like poverty and employer/employee relationships.

It's obvious I am talking to a 15 year old underage faggot right now. How much did Logan Paul get off your parents kido?

>>53180679
I don't think he was a "traitor" like you said because what he made for his country save the Portugal of a financial collapse

>>53180833
>lol you just made up problems like poverty and employer/employee relationships
Never said something like that, i implied you invented a problem that was always the same for 99% of human history and made up some dumb solution that is supposed to destroy this relationship of master/servant despite being impractical in the material world.

Then of course you proceed to call anyone thinking you're living in a dream as a "slave too afraid to break his own chain". The real underage coper is you.

>>53180825
I said besides incels on 4chan, social outcast. And swedish immigrants aren't a economic system. Try touching a woman and get off /Pol/ faggot

>>53180883
Right the problems have existed through out all of human history and we have always fought to aleviate these issues and problems to a large degree of success. But now, suddenely, because you have been told your own like "le gommunism bad" Suddenly we are force to believe that working to make a small group of directors extremely rich while we live in poverty in comparison is the "natural way of things."
The focal point of socialism is not the eradication of the boss employee relationship, per-se but a result of it. You are a cuck and you clearly don't work for a living.

Well, sorry, but only a retard or a child could believe something so stupid. I work for a living in a bullet factory. Stop projecting your pathetic N33T life onto me, lmao.

>>>/pol/ for brown, red and other colored socialist scum

>>53179242
You're still going to run into the same problems either economic system faced or still faces, how do you prevent the amassing of too much power/money/capital by those trusted to lead those systems? Otherwise you run into the issue the Germans did where something great is wholly dismantled by someone deciding to something stupid in the name of that greatness. Literally every religion that has ever existed has at some point in time been perverted to use the word and authority of God for the furtherance of the perversion of men, that same problem extends to any economic system; eventually someone is going to use that position of power and authority to do some fucked up shit and if there is no check on that system things go from being bad to a bleak unending tartarus. More important than figuring out what mix of free market or subsidy is best is laying the groundwork to keep that system in check and limit what it can do and how fast it can do it. And this is why the US is a constitutional republic with democratically elected officials, as that's the best system some of the smartest people that have ever lived have been able to come up with. Even it is fully susceptible to and currently faces the exact same issues, and facing those issues should be viewed as facing an existential threat because it very fucking much is.
>>53180825
That has more to do with seasonal effective depression and going way too far to the left at the social and policy level that it ended up wrapping back around to fascism. Enforcing a leftist ideology, telling people how to think and what to say, and punishing them for not toeing that line is the literal definition of fascism and that must be fought tooth and nail. Yes, liberals can very much be fascist, they currently are in many countries and it's having a terrible affect on the population of those places and the rest of the world.

>>53179242
no, there's a reason everyone is so happy under the current American capitalistic system where you pay more taxes than those with all the money!

Thanks for playing!

>>53180942
>Well, sorry, but only a retard or a child could believe something that is different from my own dream of non-stop socialization of labor at the expense of our systemic efficiency and functionality
>it's because you have been told that communism is bad not because you have your own way to understand reality around yourself
>the reason why we stopped slavery is because we improved as human beings and not because wagies are better than slaves and never run away

>>53179242
yes

>>53180942
>You are a cuck and you clearly don't work for a living
Also, as a construction worker i would disagree, it's still a nice projection for someone willing to give his ass away for the state as long the party says you're doing it for dah people

>>53180996
No the reason we stopped slavery was because we did not think slavery was a viable economic mode of production.

Also, LOL what a pathetic retard to compare slavery and adoption. LOOLOL god you faggots are so pathetic. You should just kill yourself. Just don't shoot up another school on the way out. If you understood anything about reality you wouldn't be a dumb ass conservative trad cath who believes in magical sky people

Come on, you can give an actual argument, I believe in you kido.

>>53179242
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_democracy
Here’s your political philosophy bro

>>53180673
Seethe and cope. Ywnbaw

brown red and whatever else color of socialist scum >>>/pol/

>>53180950
To further expound on the point of fascism, it's state control of capital and resources being used for the furtherance of a set of ideals. The red herring is that what most people associate with fascism, Nazi Germany, was a far-right authoritarian dictatorship that used the military to enforce their goals some of which were racial purity and other absolutely retarded nonsense but at the end of the day it's the state using their power to tell people what to think, do, say, feel, and believe under threat of force at its simplest definition for "national cohesion and security/prosperity" which is basically the same as saying "let us wiretap everything you own that carries an electrical signal whether you like it or not because terrorists and then never revoke that capability after the fact" or any number of fucked up bullshit ideas that have been pushed "to protect the children". It's playing on peoples fears and lives to get them to do and act how you want, and I swear to Christ on his fucking throne if some retard comes in with a "what about laws, they literally do that so are they all fascist?!?!" I will come through the screen and shit on your desk.

>>53181016
See this is another huge thing retards cannot comprehend like you: The state and a syndicate of unionized work places are not the same thing and surely you aren't going to call a union worker a cuck are you?

You support unions.....right anon?

Working 8 or more hours a day is for cucks.

>>53181020
>I made up a lot of shit about some sterotypical /pol/ user because you're probably one of them
>slavery was not a viable economic mode of production despite me bitching day and night about wage slavery from people willingly signing a contract and getting exploited
For me you can take your sisters and go back to the trannyhole you came from, anyone can play with stereotypes

>>53181086
>He mad

Cope, cuck.

>>53181082
>The state and a syndicate of unionized work places are not the same thing
Except they are and i don't see how unions can do with without the government enforcing their laws lol.
>Working 8 or more hours a day is for cucks.
If you want to work 12 hours it's your problem.

>>53181086
Just because a contract was signed says nothing about the actual legitimacy of that contract. People can sign agreements to all kinds of things because their objective situations force them into an exloitative relationship.

Like a person who agrees to pay 1mill dollars for a bottle of water in a desert because they are starving. Much the same way the economic relations of production under capitalism force people to accept the worst possible bargain in the employer employee relationship because the capitalist owners, naturally, have all the power.

That's why they spend billions to break up unions and make it impossible gor people to organize because our collective labor is the only real power we have against the influence of capital. But, sure, keep thinking its the jews, or, irish or whatever cuck.

>>53181094
Oh come on zOg, i knew you guys are masters of projection and butthurt, but this much...
>cuck
Support your local politician.

>>53179283
what a mentally ill post, go back to where you came from please

>>53181111
Quads unanimously confirms you are correct. Using a position of power (being an employer) to justify not paying a fair wage for the work being done when you know the people you work for have no other choice but to do it in many situations and circumstances is wage slavery. That cannot continue, or else the slaves will revolt as they always have through time and whether or not that revolt is suppressed there will still be damage of a horrific nature to both sides. Capitalism can work but not if everyone can shirk all of their taxes, people can't make enough, and fiscal policy is so pants-on-head retarded that even if you are making money it becomes nearly impossible to actually get ahead in life without being a literal psychopath that puts profit before everything else. Babylon begets babylon, and I would argue not putting a check in place on an economic system to prevent this kind of behavior is an affront to God and should be treated as such.

>>53181108
The government encforcing laws is not "statism" that's just a childish understanding of society. Of course states will exist under socialism to keep law and order, but, economic activity should be mediated by democratic workers assemblies, aka, unions.

>If you want to work 12 hours a day that's your problem

No shit you dumb fucking retard. Every single job in the US expects this shit from its employees and you basically have to work that to get enough money to live. You small minded retards don't understand this is exactly why we need socialism.

Keep sucking your bosses dick. I am sure he will give your wife that new porche she has been wanting.

>>53180878

Purposely keeping your people miserable and ignorant to the point they consider it an improvement to live in shantytowns in France is traitorous. People in the countryside were so impoverished that they gave their children away to be used as maids and lolis by urbanites. It was fucking grim.

He was a faggy tradcat priest wannabe, nothing more.

>>53181111
>People can sign agreements to all kinds of things because their objective situations force them into an exloitative relationship.
There's not a single instance when people never reacted to the circumstances around themselves. The "exploitation" you're talking about can be cause by both market economies or state planned ones. The difference is you have a great variety of choice in one unlike the other and different results impacting the global economy on long term.

>Like a person who agrees to pay 1mill dollars for a bottle of water in a desert because they are starving.
Don't get in a desert in the first place would be a solution.
>Much the same way the economic relations of production under capitalism force people to accept the worst possible bargain in the employer employee relationship because the capitalist owners, naturally, have all the power.
In opposition to what system? So far interventionism made it worse, now no one can challenge these guys, they always get a free bailout at least.
>>53181178
Somebody is angry because i'm demolishing his view, statement by statement.
>Of course states will exist under socialism to keep law and order, but, economic activity should be mediated by democratic workers assemblies, aka, unions.
"We will have... we will have..." it's always the same shit with you, once you apply it you will understand it's too slow and impractical to react fast and in the right way to solve economic problems.

>>53181142
Ideally, I would prefer a socialist mode of production where workers control the government and the economy, but, yeah, at this point I am pretty much just supporting whatever candidates will give me better chances and opportunity for unionization and better benefits and higher wages. Also we need to cut our military expendature in half. I am glad to see more people on this site are starting to wake up and pull their heads out of their asses. The pol shit has gotten so tiersom.

>>53181142
Oh it's this cope again
>people will revolt
Where is your revolt?

>>53181226
>Ideally, I would prefer a socialist mode of production where workers control the government and the economy
The USSR struggled with specialized bureaucrats to understand how resources must allocate perfectly, and you still think you can do that with people who have a job?

>Opportunity cost, what is it?

>>53179242
>Have a free market system but also have safety nets for people who need help or are mentally ill/disabled/old.
Yeah thats just most modern capitalist countries.

>>53181214
>There's not a single instance when people never reacted to the circumstances around themselves. The "exploitation" you're talking about can be cause by both market economies or state planned ones. The difference is you have a great variety of choice in one unlike the other and different results impacting the global economy on long term.


Yeah man, under capitalism you have the choice between coke and bepis but you don't actually have choice in places that matter. You don't have choice of how resorces are distributed in society and what gets produced and how. Nore do you have say over the time you spend actually producing things for society. This seems almost obvious. That is why it is exploitation because you get the goyslop in exchange for your subservience and servitude to some retard in upper management. Life is about more than the consumption of shallow commodities.

>Don't get in a desert in the first place would be a solution.

You are missing the point entirely

.>In opposition to what system? So far interventionism made it worse, now no one can challenge these guys, they always get a free bailout at least.

Spoken like a true retard who knows nothing about history, Prior to kenyseian economics we had literally trusts that had to be broken up because they controlled so much of society and things are almost that bad again because labor relations are so poor in this country because people like you suck up corporate propaganda like a prostitute guzzles cum.

>"We will have... we will have..." it's always the same shit with you, once you apply it you will understand it's too slow and impractical to react fast and in the right way to solve economic problems.

People have literally said this about every single progressive advancement in humanity big and small. You're all about freedom for the ownership class but once workers start talking about freedom then that is just "impractical"

You are a cuck.

>>53181244
>The USSR struggled with specialized bureaucrats to understand how resources must allocate perfectly, and you still think you can do that with people who have a job?

The USSR has nothing to do with the conversation at hand.

>>53181226
The main difference between a capitalist economic system and a communistic economic system is thus; to each according to ability, or to each according to need. I posit that this division is the single greatest source of humanities problems, moreso than religion because it is overwhelmingly across all cultures the pursuit of doing good for others because it is good for yourself - obviously you must give according to someone's ability and obviously you must give according to someone's need because without fulfilling that need they will never develop their ability and without a need to develop that ability progress grinds to a halt because the necessity is not there, which leads to real scarcity, which leads to famine and death. There must be a compromise, and there must be a check on the system to prevent inequality that leads to either a lack of ability or the lack of ability to provide for needs. I really, really fucking wish more people would actually read Marx and understand how it applies to both economic systems and I don't think it's a coincidence everything he wrote or did is hidden or derided. Overcoming adversity is the single most important thing for human progress, and not being able to challenge a belief is the road to ruin every. single. fucking. time. If faith cannot be tested it is not true faith, if an idea (which is all a system really is when you boil it down) cannot be challenged it cannot stand on merit and objectivity.
>>53181229
Go look at the unemployment rate. Go look at faith in governments around the world, which is dropping like a fucking stone and is horrible precedent because faith in government is a reflection of faith in each other as any government is made up of those it governs. Look around you at the various existential threats facing society today, how absolutely demoralizing they are, what the suicide rate is like. A revolt is not always violent nor is it loud, it can be as simple as the act of giving up en masse.

>>53181255
>it's about sugary products
No, it's about organize your life the way you want and take the risks you want.
>Prior to kenyseian economics we had literally trusts that had to be broken up because they controlled so much of society
You had something that worked and a flourishing economy before central banks stepped in.
>You're all about freedom for the ownership class but once workers start talking about freedom then that is just "impractical"
You never wanted freedom, you want equality and security, not freedom.
>>53181255
Because you can only talk in "theory" without taking into account any practical effort to achieve that, and practically always stuck in a cycle of empirical bullshit where you must try everything and throw yourself off a bridge until you grow wings to fly with.

>>53181279
I look around me and the only people i see is self-destructing retards without future, not revolts.

>>53179242
Welcome to Scandinavia, Burger.
>>53179283
Cope and seethe /Pol/tard
>>53180673
/thread

>>53181244
The bureaucrats were never allowed to actually distribute those resources anywhere close to efficiently or perfectly because of corruption and the concentration of power/capital/money within the rulers of that country and their economic system. That is called corruption, and it ate them alive from the inside out like a cancer. The US is facing a different kind of corruption in rampant income inequality from the same root cause, an extreme concentration of wealth/power/capital within those trusted to lead the economic system it and the people that depend on it rely on. If it's not going to end up like the U.S.S.R. did and collapse, that corruption must be rooted out and destroyed much like chemo and surgery would do to remove a tumor and prevent it from re-occurring. Rather than shit all over the failure of a different economic system, learn why the fuck it failed and how to prevent that instead of getting high on the smell of your own farts. Or don't and watch the place collapse because you liked how your farts smelled more than you cared about the people that depended on you.

>>53180673
that's pretty much what I was saying though, you stupid retarded mass replier

>>53181291
I love how this faggot just ignored the whole: "You have freedom in ways that don't matter but not in ways that do" Part of my argument, kek.


>You had something that worked and a flourishing economy before central banks stepped in.


HAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHA MASSIVE MONOPLIES AND CORPERATE TOWNS "WORKED" HAHAHAHA literally CHILDREN WORKING IN COAL MINES WAS "WORKING" HAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

>You never wanted freedom, you want equality and security, not freedom.

Kill yourself cuck
Inconvenient for you there kid?

>Because you can only talk in "theory" without taking into account any practical effort to achieve that, and practically always stuck in a cycle of empirical bullshit where you must try everything and throw yourself off a bridge until you grow wings to fly with.

Mindless retard babble. Ignored. Keep drinking the kool-aid retard.

>>53181300
First they came for the retards, and I did not stand up for the retards because I wasn't a retard. Then they came for the midwits, and I did not stand up for the midwits because I was not a midwit. Then they came for the ones that weren't retarded or midwits, and I was taken because there was nobody left to stand up for me and those like me when they came for us. You MUST care for the retards and midwits or it will eventually be your own ass, and further it's the responsibility of the learned to teach the retards and midwits how to not be retarded or be midwits so their very existence means you're not doing a good enough job teaching them. Besides that most of the people folks consider to be retarded or midwits are actually far wiser than the learned and realize what is truly important in life, they just end up retarded or a midwit because they focused more on what actually matters in life (family, God, loving one another) rather than sacrificing those things to learn. But if you're not sharing what you know, what the fuck did you sacrifice for? To have control at the expense of others for your own personal gain? Then you're not a human, you're a demonic fucking skinwalker that is truly and utterly lost and a bigger problem than any retard or midwit could ever hope to be.

>>53181315
>The bureaucrats were never allowed to actually distribute those resources anywhere close to efficiently or perfectly because of corruption and the concentration of power/capital/money within the rulers of that country and their economic system.
Yes, it's called incentive, aplly it to the rest of the people working and you will understand how the world works.

Nobody cares about efficient allocation if they can drain as much as they want through their privileges, democracy doesn't solve it.

>>53181347
Define "working" then, we built an empire over cheap labor lol, sperging out won't help your arguments, it's just a desperate effort to appeal emotionally.

I must say, i'm amused by the butthurt.

>>53181350
heartbreaking wall of text.

>>53181359
Democracy doesn't solve it, no. So far the best solution has been a constitutional republic with democratically elected officials, the issue is when people get too retarded and there's too many midwits because the people that are actually smart and understand how shit works use their position of intellectual power to manipulate those not smart enough to see through the manipulation. You argue that incentive is necessary to maintain a balance of power, I argue that with the accumulation of too much power/wealth/capital into any minority under any economic system you will begin to see incentive being applied very unequally as a consequence of the insulation afforded by aforementioned concentration. If they had cared about efficient allocation they would still have far more than they ever needed, they stopped caring because they didn't have to anymore because of that concentration of power/capital/currency affording them insulation from the rest of the world which will always corrupt anyone to some extent and that corruption will spread like a cancer. That same cancer of corruption caused by extreme concentration of power/capital/currency can affect a capitalistic society just as easily as a communistic one when too many smart people stop teaching midwits and retards how to not be midwits or retards, or worse, when they turn midwits into retards and retards into cattle for the furtherance of their own gain. Because then the smart become the midwits and a midwit leading is the golden-bricked road straight to the lowest level of Hell.

>>53181391
The only person here who is butthurt is you and no amount of pepe posting swill ever change that, kek. Sure we built our current civilization off the blood and sweat of billions of people, but, that doesn't mean that we must cont that line of exploitation in order to achieve a society worth living under. I don't really see your point. Do you think we should just never had abolished slavery? Because society still kept advancing even with the abolition of slavery. I don't think this is the argument you think it is.

Plenty of examples under the USSR of how a society that isn't predicated upon the exploitation of others can go. Space race, etc etc. Built the second most powerful economy on the planet, etc etc. I'm not butthurt you retard I am laughing at you, kek.

>>53181410
The biggest problem with democracy of any sort is that most people are retarded or midwits and thus easily manipulable. Having a constitutional republic of democratically elected officials gives the retards and midwits a chance of not dooming themselves, because the learned that they have elected can solve issues in a compartmentalized fashion making it much harder to manipulate enough retards into cattle and enough midwits into retards to start eroding the learned class into midwits thus beginning the trip on the road to Hell. It's not infallible, and more learned people need to do more to explain to midwits and retards how to not be midwits or retards, because that is the ultimate purpose of becoming learned - to understand something well enough to be able to explain it simply enough that midwits and retards can learn from that without having to make the same sacrifice, the same way me and you are debating this right now using a system of computers and internet infrastructure developed and maintained by people much smarter in that realm than you or I (probably, it is 4chan, there's every odd you're an IT professional at a high level and possibly have a clearance of some sort). The purpose of being a giant is for others to stand on your shoulders, not to smash them indiscriminately and then wonder why there's no fucking food and everything all of a sudden sucks dick. Giants depend on midgets just as much as midgets depend on giants, losing sight of that has been the downfall of many a civilization and country.

>>53179348
>Yeah but the real question is what the best tax strategy looks like
Land value tax, with a stipulation that any member who proposes a bill or order to raise said tax must kill their first born. No kid to kill? Bill denied.

>what the government should do with those taxes
Pic related>>53179283

>>53181433
This. Indiscriminately shitting on the U.S.S.R. or CCP or any other communistic country or system just because it's not your own economic system is retarded. There are extremely valuable lessons to be learned from them and applied to a capitalistic economic system, for the direct benefit and good of a capitalistic system. The real fucking truth of the matter is you can lean heavily towards capitalism or communism but there must be principles of either in either or else it's just going to end up as fascism. History is littered with examples of such, and I'm using my definition of the word fascism which is putting the furtherance of the state and its goals above the people via convincing them that it is for their own good through threat of force against the ones you haven't turned into midwits or retards via policy and punishment - regardless whether that's communistic or capitalistic, liberal or conservative.

>>53181410
If you can grow as much as you like, you will grow, no matter how much unconvenient is for others.
>>53181433
>I don't really see your point. Do you think we should just never had abolished slavery? Because society still kept advancing even with the abolition of slavery. I don't think this is the argument you think it is.
No i think waging is better than slavery not because it is "worth living under" for everyone, it's because it is more convenient systemically when we need to exploit people.

>Built the second most powerful economy on the planet
A society that is only large in size and selling oil for food instead of growing it effectively inside the nation, ending up in debt and selling itself

The way you retards keep mixing your materialistic thinking with your moralfaggotry is laughable since it shows the real reason why you push for socialism so hard.

>>53181488
>How does all of these walls of fucking text apply to business and finance
You must put checks in place to limit profits in a capitalistic system, the same way you must put checks in place to incentivize profit in a communistic system. Period. Failure to do so will result in a failure of either system and no amount of retarded fiscal policy or wars won if not lost will change that on a long enough timeframe. Thus learning this enables a business to be as profitable as possible over the longest timeframe possible while still existing in a system that both meets the needs of the people it serves and incentivizes the development of their ability to further meet those needs and the needs of others to be a part of international commerce and finance. This shit is not hard to understand, I've broken it down simply enough a midwit or retard could get it, and this lesson is intentionally obfuscated or has been for all of human history. Please understand it. It is vital to the prosperity of humanity as a whole.

>>53181488
>There are extremely valuable lessons to be learned from them and applied to a capitalistic economic system
Like never attempting planned economies again

Jesus Christ you niggers are stupid. The whole world has trended towards neo-liberalism since WW2 but you really think your dead ideologies are going to amount to anything in the future.
>>53181433
>Plenty of examples under the USSR of how a society that isn't predicated upon the exploitation of others can go
The USSR are a brutal dictatorship that fell apart in under a century. We are watching their descendants murder each other in 1080p because they were communists and we werent.

>>53181497
>If you can grow as much as you like, you will grow, no matter how much unconvenient is for others.
That is the epitome of demonic skinwalker mindset and is exactly how a tumor behaves. I do not aspire to be a tumor, nobody should.

>>53180712
>However, capitalism is not the best economic system possible and, just as feudalism in the past, was replaced by capitalism
Capitalism existed during the times of feudalism it was natural system of trade and commerce that dominated the cities in medieval europe. Socialism is deeply flawed and contradictory system could be hardly called socialist even if you analyze it by from the retarded Jew own theories. Even if they enforce socialism the economic collapse of that system and the establishment to yet another form of capitalism will be just in matter of time

>>53181497
>If you can grow as much as you like, you will grow, no matter how much unconvenient is for others.


This is bullshit and has been debunked by elenor Alstrom. The tragedy of the commons, ironically, only applies to capitalist modes of production.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qr5Q3VvpI7w

>I think waging is better than slavery

Well no shit retard, but, not waging is better than waging. Wage slavery sucks the life out of people and forces you to work your whole limited existence making some faggot rich.

>it's because it is more convenient systemically when we need to exploit people.

Retarded. No one should be exploited in the first place. I am willing to bet you let your boss fuck your wife, lol.

>A society that is only large in size and selling oil for food instead of growing it effectively inside the nation, ending up in debt and selling itself

I never said the USSR was perfect unlike you and your idealistic cuckcoldary for capitalism.

>The way you retards keep mixing your materialistic thinking with your moralfaggotry is laughable since it shows the real reason why you push for socialism so hard.

Projection

>>53181518
>You must put checks in place to limit profits in a capitalistic system, the same way you must put checks in place to incentivize profit in a communistic system
The fuck are you acting if you don't do it for profit and grow stronger? There is no reason to do that.
>>53181527
Every single living beings act to grow as much as they can, you should ask yourself why you can find trees everywhere in this world.

>>53181523
>THE USSR DID BAD THINGS SO THEREFORE NOTHING GOOD WAS DONE UNDER IT AT ALL

You mother fuckers seriously need to take remedial courses or something.

>>53181520
Agreed on that one
>>53181523
>We are watching their descendants murder each other in 1080p because they were communists and we werent.
You're watching their descendants murder each other in 1080p because of the cancer of corruption caused by the concentration of too much wealth/power/capital by the ruling class. That has less to do with communism and more to do with the human condition. Neo-libs are absolute fucking scum and are peak demonic fucking skinwalker mindset because they use the presupposition of applying concepts from both as a position of moral authority to justify doing the things they want to do in order to directly enrich themselves, and it will lead to the same downfall that both communistic and capitalistic societies are susceptible to.

Basically, this is what fucking happens when nobody takes ethics in business or economics seriously. That shit is as serious as the cancer that will develop if it is ignored. If more people took the supposedly righteous anger they apply to the myriad shit they argue about incessantly because they feel the need to manufacture problems as part of the human condition in the absence of real problems, and put it towards enforcing ethics in business and economics, the system they live under would not fall to the cancer of corruption. Giving a shit about being good and doing good and most importantly doing the right fucking thing for everyone no matter how hard it is is the only prevention, and an ounce of that is worth a pound of cure.

>>53181564
The good things it did dont matter. Its economics and governance led to its own destruction.

>>53181562
>The fuck are you acting if you don't do it for profit and grow stronger? There is no reason to do that.
ETHICS AND LOVE FOR YOUR FELLOW FUCKING MAN IS THE REASON AND THIS IS ONE OF THE MAIN TENETS GOD TEACHES VIA ANY RELIGION - EVEN FUCKING ATHIESTS UNDERSTAND THERE IS A PART OF THEMSELVES IN EVERYONE ELSE AND VICE FUCKING VERSA, REMOVE YOUR HEAD FROM YOUR ANUS
>Every single living beings act to grow as much as they can, you should ask yourself why you can find trees everywhere in this world.
I'll use your example to prove my point, trees compete for sunlight and naturally limit each others growth or the growth of new trees when there is not enough light or water. That is the natural order of things. God has blessed us with free will and we have used that gift to become more intelligent than fucking trees. Your argument is flawed, you ignore this flaw intentionally, but I want you to know with the same free will God gives us all you can apply yourself and not be a retard anymore if you so choose. I cannot make this decision for you, but I can tell you not being a retard or a midwit is preferable to being a retard or a midwit.

>>53181566
Neoliberalism is just market reform. The war in Ukraine has everything to do with the fall of the USSR. Russia has to fight for its Eurasian state or this is it.

>>53181561
>Big Think
>DEBOOOOOONKED BY THIS VIDEO HERE
Lol, as if no man wanted to grow in power before capatalism.
>Well no shit retard, but, not waging is better than waging
As if waging wasn't a thing back then and was invented after we abolished slavery.
Still, slavery is present today in the form of wage slavery, so you never improved shit, you made slavery more convenient this way.

>i bet you're a cuck
>i bet you lick boot
>you think capitalism is perfect
>projection, i want socialism because i know it's the next phase and not because i need a way to cope with my surroundings
Pathetic.

>>53181598
>ETHICS AND LOVE FOR YOUR FELLOW FUCKING MAN IS THE REASON AND THIS IS ONE OF THE MAIN TENETS GOD TEACHES VIA ANY RELIGION
WOOOOOAH WE GOT A CHRISTKEK HERE
>I'll use your example to prove my point, trees compete for sunlight and naturally limit each others growth or the growth of new trees when there is not enough light or water
So the strongest and most privileged survives while those coming out late stay poor as fuck, sounds worse than capatalism

>>53181566
NEWS FLASH: power always concentrate and there's nothing you can do about it, whetever it is for nepotism or skill power always concentrate.

>>53181602
It is not just fucking market reform and this is a peak midwit take across the board.
>>53181631
>So the strongest and most privileged survives while those coming out late stay poor as fuck, sounds worse than capatalism
Yes, that would be how things used to work when humanity wasn't yet smarter than trees or tumors. You can intentionally ignore that corruption from the concentration of wealth/power/capital as a result of the human condition is the root of all problems in any economic system if you like, the same way people choose to put a bullet through their brainstem. Or you can choose to not be a retard heading for pasture with the rest of the cattle to be lead up the ramp. I will choose to ignore you and stop throwing pearls before swine.

>>53179242
I, personally, believe that our current capitalistic economic model where workers can lose their jobs based on the whims of an employer and lose their family and house is the best model. It's great that there's no upper class momentum for poor White people, the people are forced to go into lifelong debt to jews, and we have to work for pedophile jewish globalists while we're taxed into poverty and our money is sent to niggers and jews around the world.

It's also cool that the jewish owned federal reserve can print trillions of dollars out of thin air (yes the same dollars we slave our whole lives away for) and use that money to further their jewish agenda of destroying the West using corporations that push their agenda as proxies.

I love this economy and Ben Shapiro (a jew) owned a pink haired liberal once when she questioned capitalism so now I also staunchly defend it while watching my people be parasitically drained by it. If we didn't work 9-5 for 70 years there's literally nothing else we would do get a job lazy liberal

>>53181631
>just bend over and take it bro I did and I turned out alright
No, and it clearly did not.

>>53181656
>It is not just fucking market reform and this is a peak midwit take across the board.
It is. Its an outlook on liberal capitalism that prioritizes market reform where possible. Midwits like you use it to mean "unfettered capitalism" (which is bullshit) and then post pictures of anti-homeless architecture.

>>53181656
>that would be how things used to work when humanity wasn't yet smarter than trees or tumors
Humanity can't stop nature and can't stop evolutionary forces living inside itself rent free.
Corruption indeed comes in these kind of environment full of power, expecially in THE STATE where power is taken with violence and not economic exchange.

Someone will accumulate this power because someone must organize the shit you do in your job every fucking day.

>>53181616
It's not "just a video" You retard. She got a PHD in economics for this, lmao. It's always funny though that you loosers always go on about "muh science and proof" Until it flies in the face of your retarded narrative.

>As if waging wasn't a thing back then and was invented after we abolished slavery.

Holy shit this is such a retarded and ahistorical take. Slavery, Fuedalism, and Mercantilism basically existed side by side for centuries. Even capitalism E.G: An economy mode of production predicated upon the ownership of property and wage labor also existed side by side with these systems for decades. Capitalism as a global syszstem of production is very recent and this just goes to show how uneducated you are.

>>53181671
you will bend over and get fucked by them even more easily and this thanks to interventism.

>>53181645
Yes there are plenty of things you can do about it.
What you can do is organize upon your collective labor power and demand better rights and benifits,

>>53181664
Based

>>53181664
I will never agree with laying the blame solely at the feet of the jews or marxists/communists, that's just scapegoating - but I will admit that before nazi germany took the final turn down the dark road to their failure they were exceptionally efficient at rooting out economic corruption and it did directly benefit them and the people that lived under that system. I do however think failing to learn the lesson that rooting out corruption and enforcing ethics in business and economics is paramount to the success of any economic system is a fatal one, and it is one that studying them can teach. However that same lesson can still be learned from studying literally any period of human history in nearly every place, and I'm still happy they got their asses handed to them. Much like a klansman ranting about illegal immigration and the disastrous effects it can have on a populace, even a retard or midwit has a good idea occasionally.

>>53181706
>She got a PHD in economics for this, lmao.
Do you want to know how many PHD in economics disagree with each others over pathetic models who can't predict shit?
>Slavery, Fuedalism, and Mercantilism basically existed side by side for centuries
So they still exist even after their "death" as long wageslavery is a thing, the only thing not existing is socialism.

>>53181742
>Do you want to know how many PHD in economics disagree with each others over pathetic models who can't predict shit?

She actually did feild research. People who work together in common land outside of your magically theoretical frame works aren't assholes to eachother and don't work the land until it is completely destroyed. The tragedy of the commons only applies when you take the human element out of it, cope.

>So they still exist even after their "death" as long wageslavery is a thing, the only thing not existing is socialism.

You people are seriously some of the dumbest people I have ever met.

>>53181715
>demand better right and benefit
So you can drain as much resources as you can from the system and die out anyway, this while ching chong keeps selling you goyslop and gets bigger and bigger.

>>53179242
test

>>53181693
It has the potential to not be a complete midwit ideology, except I have yet to see it espoused in a manner that is not inevitably co-opted and corrupted and it is highly susceptible to it because of the many follies of liberalism unchecked by conservatism. Drop the attempts at gun control and I would respect it immensely more, as it stands it focuses way too hard on protecting people from themselves which is in and of itself an attempt at a grab for more power. As it exists it is peak midwit and the people that espouse it are peak midwit.
>>53181698
Distribute that power in a manner such that it cannot be concentrated to that extreme. If you've got a better idea for how to do that than the various amendments of the US constitution, I'm all fucking ears bozo. Thus far you have not impressed.
>>53181710
>just outing yourself as a propagandist
You don't have to choose to be a retard.

>>53181761
>magically theoretical frame works aren't assholes to eachother and don't work the land until it is completely destroyed
Said the socialist pretending socialism is going to win at the end.
>She actually did feild research.
the only research economists do is to confirm their biases on how the economy works. Them being assholes or not doesn't mean there's no debate at all.

>>53181725
> is a fatal one
"is a fatal mistake", getting gish galloped tends to cause typos

>>53181725
>I will never agree with laying the blame solely at the feet of the jews or marxists/communists

Then you will never understand or solve the problem.

>>53181783
>Said the socialist pretending socialism is going to win at the end.

Yeah change the subject, we know you have nothing to argue against real factual unformation. Facts don't care about your feelings, etc etc.

>the only research economists do is to confirm their biases on how the economy works. Them being assholes or not doesn't mean there's no debate at all.

>I don't like reality so I am going to conform reality to my pre-existing biases.

Retard.

>>53181761
>She actually did feild research. People who work together in common land outside of your magically theoretical frame works aren't assholes to eachother and don't work the land until it is completely destroyed.
Omg this tribe of 200 people all shit in the same field!
>You people are seriously some of the dumbest people I have ever met.
Hes right. The whole world is liberalizing and will continue to do so.

>>53181792
I don't understand this why is it "The jew" rather than the system itself. Wouldn't killing all the jews just leave the system for which another group of powerful connected people can replace them?

>>53181781
>propagandist
please... this is the same as "you're a kike rat shill" i always implied you make their job more easy by opening the doors of the state
>Distribute that power in a manner such that it cannot be concentrated to that extreme
You said nothing, no plan at all and no way to achieve the same performance without divide labor and concentrating power

>>53181792
The problem is perverting the word and authority of God for the furtherance of self-enrichment, the solution is a check on dogma. Unfortunately that will not happen within my lifetime and certainly not until many more wars and much more blood is spilled, enough for everyone to figure out collectively they've been acting like morons by neglecting ethics and not rooting out corruption with the same conviction as a holy war.

>>53181817
>God exists

hahahahahahahahahha

No

>>53181807
It's just using pain as an excuse for more pain. Again, part of the human condition. The number of people that have been in a position of power and chose not to do so is so few that the exceptions to the rule tend to be the main figures of holy books. Somehow, everyone conveniently forgets that lesson and perverts whatever holy text they prefer and the authority it brings to further their own goals. Even athiests do the same shit with their god, science.
>>53181815
"The plan" is rising above the system of control that has been instituted via the dissemination of propaganda and working together as all of humanity while setting aside differences to make the world a better place. You don't have to choose to suck dick, you don't have to be demoralized, and you can die for something worth living for. If more people understood that the world would change overnight for the betterment of us all.

>>53181796
>economics is an hard science where people are like the piece of a puzzle i just need to know where to place them
the thing is you have a theoretical framework as well that i find retarded because you constantly lose yourself in how socialism will rise and destroy capitalism.

i'm not watching deboonker since i watched too many of them already unless you explain yourself their arguments

>>53181851
>"The plan" is rising above the system of control that has been instituted via the dissemination of propaganda and working together as all of humanity while setting aside differences to make the world a better place
this is not a plan or description of what you want to do, it's nonsense rethoric and emotionaly appeal to assure yourself that if we keep trying we will succeed and destroy what makes us suffer.

it's pathetic and retarded

>>53181821
Just because a holy book didn't have to tell you not to be a piece of shit doesn't mean you shouldn't still try to not be a piece of shit. In that way even those without faith in God still serve him, and if you have the conviction to go through life absent that faith you are easily capable of understanding that not rooting out corruption and not enforcing ethics and checks on power with all of your being is directly antithetical to your own success and the success of those you love, even absent a love for your fellow man for simply being a man as you are. There is no fucking excuse.

>>53181873
Hey, dipshit, remember that free will I mentioned earlier and how it can be used to develop intelligence? You should apply it and figure out your own plan free of my influence or the influence of others.

>>53181874
Nobody gives a fuck about your holy book, i can wipe my ass with your holy book

>>53181856
That is a complete strawman because no one said anything about a grand narrative where "socialism defeates capitalism" That is just something you made up in your own head because you dislike the fact that modern workers are displeased with the current state if the world.

Stay an ignorant retard, no one will care

>>53181874
>I have faith in these unicorns god damnit!

>>53181891
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8MZBUoQt68

>>53181886
don't worry you will deterministically kill yourself once you understand how bad this world is.

You're still at "the world is dark but i can improve it" but circumstances can still do something about that.

>>53181894
>it's a strawman because you're not using the word "dismantling capitalism"
fuck off already

>>53181903
I have faith that even those without faith would still want the world to be a better place for themselves and thus everyone else. I know this because I was once without it myself, and found it in my own way. Upon reflection I've realized it was always there, and further that the inherent desire to do good and have faith in our fellow man was the genesis for every religion as they are ultimately just mans attempt to explain a vast and complex philosophical quandary of why that feeling consistently arises within us all throughout all of human history.

>NO MINE IS NOT A GRAND NARRATIVE
>MINE IS AN ACCURATE SCIENTIFIC INVESTIGATION OF HISTORY FROM A MATERIALISTIC PERSPECTIVE
cope

>>53181910
You could probably improve the circumstances of your world by using your skill at projection to get a job as a projector at an IMAX theatre. I will not be demoralized, I will have faith in God, and if and when I die it will be for something worth living for. You will not break the indomitable spirit of the human will. None can. It is the wellspring from which faith, hope, love, and mercy come. For the last time, in my actual last reply to you, you do not have to choose to be a retard. Have a great day.

>>53181951
I have a job, lol and lmao

>>53181920
Cope retard.

>>53181950
>WAAAA I DON'T LIKE REALITY AND FACTS WAAAAAAA

That's not communism.. That's social democracy/social liberalism.. That's the "european social market economy" model. And the US isn't actually too far off of that.

>>53182011
>>53182014
>cope
>cope
>cope
>what i believe in is reality and facts
MAGAnigger?

>>53181205
You're completely deluded and oblivious to Portuguese economic and political History. Salazar brought political and social peace and stability that allowed for a new wave of industrialization and growth. This is inescapable. What you need to understand is that Portugal had the 4th highest GDP per capita in all of Europe between 1640 and 1800 and then it all crashed down in the 19th century. This is the source of Portugal's lack of development. Salazar was a dictator for sure but he put an end to the disastrous 1st Republic which existed in a state of perpetual civil war. Literacy actually went up a lot during his time.

>wasted 4 hours in this thread
Oh well, fuck it.

>>53180679
Your picture is way too bleak. You seriously need to go look at the economic indicators of Portugal in the 60s and 70s. It really wasn't as bad as you make it out to be. You're a victim of brainwashing. And I don't really care for authoritarianism.

>>53179242
There is no such thing as a 100% free market just like there is no such thing as communism. Even the USA, *currently*, has a large government controlled sector; and still has lots of problems bc not everything is a matter of economics

>>53182143
Communism isn't when the government does something.
And yes, nearly, everything is a matter of economics, e.g the profit motive.

>>53181807
Are all groups of people the same? Has history not shown you that there is one group who parasitically drain the nation in their nepotistic lust for power? There will always be a well connected aristocracy, but not all well connected aristocracies want to destroy your nation with their co-ethnics by corrupting your land with sexual perversion, mass migration, and mass poverty with their usurious practices.

You rid the land of jews, and you rid the land of jewish practices. Yes, there are Whites who also engage in parasitic behaviors, but they are judaized.

>>53180712
Socialists love to gaslight people like this.
>Socialism isn't government intervention in the economy
Everyone knows this but we have aspects of socialism in almost all economies. There isn't a fully capitalist county either, so everyone who calls the U.S. a capitalist country is wrong by this logic.

>>53180887
>Disagree therefore incels

>>53182058

You know little about the country.

He held purposely the nation back while countries that had been ravaged by war prospered. Very little was invested in public services, education and healthcare and not for lack of resources since he managed to support a colonial empire and wage a war on multiple fronts.

It stemmed from a backwards view of a society born of the fall of portuguese aristocracy, where social mobility was a threat. His priority was to keep the upper classes in power and the lower classes too ignorant to adhere to "dangerous ideas", all the while ensuring the supremacy of the catholic church.

Things were so bad that the regime who succeeded his - which is mired in corruption and ineptitude - actually managed to do better in most issues.

TLDR: he was a backwards idiot drunk on god who prolonged poverty and ignorance on purpose least the poor get uppity.

>>53179242
No, it's not.
Sure public services are good, but over reliance on the centralization of every service by the government it was creates the conditions that result in African and Venezuelan levels of economic failure.
That's also not accounting for the fact that giving the government control over services that would traditionally be owned by private citizens and subject to competition affords the government ungodly amounts of power over it's citizens.

>>53182026
>That's not communism.. That's social democracy/social liberalism
Why don't we do that in the US?

>>53183266
The US has two neo-liberal parties. The population isnt very interested in social democracy. We saw this when Sanders failed to get the nomination in his own party.

>>53183641
For the last time - the US is a constitutional republic with democratic elections of candidates. It is not, has never been, and will never be a pure democracy because that does not work for shit because too many people are too retarded and easily led astray. There must be checks and balances on power, period, end of story or else you end up falling to the same corruption that has taken damn near every empire and nation of note that came before it. Sanders made many valid points and while he wasn't elected he was heard and did make a massive impact for the better. Stop being a retard, it is a willing choice on your part.

/thread

>>53183641
>it wasn't real social democracy

>>53181400
Trolling

>>53182241
Ok so, but, that still doesn't answer my question because, to your own admission, there will always be some one trying to usurp the reigns of power. So, therefore, doesn't it make sense to abolish the systems of power rather than focus on any one group?

>>53182302
I'll repeat this again: Socialism is democratic control of the work place by the workers themselves.

>>53184912
>>53184920
i think the only one left here after 5 hours is me

it's getting very late

>>53183070
Again, you need to go check the cold hard data on economic development and industrialization and not base your ideas of that period's HUGE economic and social progress on shit spewed by communist brainwashers. If you actually even had the slightest inkling about the war you'd understand he built a perfectly well-functioning military industrial complex.

Would people grind for xp on a video game that redistributes it to everyone else? Would people even play it if all you could do is sit and wait for someone else to grind out your daily rations? I think it would become boring for the lazies, and the people grinding wouldnt grind for long.

>>53183070
The entire infrastructure of the national health service was built in the later years of the Estado Novo. You're completely in over your head. You're spewing shit out of emotional bias instead of cold hard facts. And the fact is that the 60s up until '74 was the period of biggest economic growth Portugal has ever seen led by visionary industrialists out of Instituto Superior Técnico.

>>53182187
Communism doesn't exist. Learn to read dumbass
>>53183641
The United States has a giant government sector. You tell yourself otherwise because it isnt your magical utopia that cant exist

>>53185130
>The United States has a giant government sector.
I agree and have been arguing in favor of neo-liberalism (market solutions) the entire thread you retarded gorilla nigger. Japan is my ideal neo-liberal society.
>You tell yourself otherwise because it isnt your magical utopia that cant exist
I never said that you ugly monke nigger faggot.

>>53184985
I went and did a bunch of errands and i'm back now. I was suprised the thread isn't pruned.

>>53185130
No shit communism doesn't exist. Speak for yourself.

>The united states has a giant government sector

lmfao, oh yeah? Is that what you call corperate malfeasance and attacking labor rights? America actually has very little government influence compared to other places.

>>53179242
the state needs to do only few things
>national defense (foreign attacks, border control)
>punish private property violations and crimes with actual victims
what kind od taxation is required? i would say 2 or 3% max
so let's cap it at 5% public (2% gibs for extremely unlucky people) and 95% private
no ability to print money, no ability to tax more than 5%

>>53179242
China already has a mixed system.

>>53185304
What you mean is, that you dont get some specific policy you want but "democratic control over the economy" means gov control in practice, and the us does a lot of it. Its the reason that college housing and medicine are so expensive. But thats not communism communism can't exist. The problem is communists, the people, who think they can bring about some magical utopia so everything that isn't communism is "capitalism" (aka everything) no matter how gigantic and invasive the government gets

>>53180673
/thread
/based
/truthpilled

>>53185900
>LE GOVERNMENT IS ANYTHING I DON'T LIKE

You people really are like children.
Housing and medicine are expensive because companies and monopolies know they can get away with extreme price gouging, IIRC. You people have the same 4 arguments and they are all strawmen.

Workers democratically controlling production is not utopian any more than capitalism was utopian under feudalism. Workers in a union or syndicate is not a "government" nore is that even relevant to the actual results and causes when the reality is that capitalism is autocratic as a mode of production and combinations of workers are justified to push back against this imbalance of power. The only thing that is utopian is your magically idealistic free market zeitgeist that has been proven historically through the guilded age, through Chili, somolia, etc etc etc to be totally incompatible with anything we would call a civilized society.

>>53179242
You are correct and this system is called fascism. Now go away and finish high school.

>>53185996
>Workers democratically controlling production is not utopian any more than merchants buying and selling stuff
Cope.
>Housing and medicine are expensive because companies and monopolies know they can get away with extreme price gouging
both are extremely regulated

>>53185996
>Housing and medicine are expensive because companies and monopolies
Housing is expensive because of blackrock and the federal reserve and the massive amounts of illegal immigrants that the government has let it.

Healthcare in the US is expensive solely because of medicare/medicaid. These government programs snowballed the costs out of control and there's an entire history of how the government tried to create price controls with these programs and insurance companies demanded the same prices and the hospitals were forced to set prices to ridiculous levels to negotiate.

>>53186284
Illegal immigration has also crippled Healthcare because they believe if they take their kid to the ER with a runny nose they'll get free treatment immediately with no appointment