/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>53140992
>reddit's coin
missed last 2 bull runs

>>53141002
>glownigger
missed last 2 threads

>>53141006
>Think everyone who isn't a Monero moonie is a glowie
Need to be 18 to post here

>>53141002
Bullruns? That shit was a microcosm of what we're about to witness. You know NOTHING kid.

>>53141023
>Think everyone who isn't a glownigger is a Monero moonie
Need to be 18 to post here

>>53140992
yep, that was me
sorry

>>53140992
I can feel it the undetected bug bringing it to zero in the air tonight

As much as I like Monero, I still think it's a honeypot.

>>53141178
It's a honeypot in the same way Tor is

>>53141464
Correct. I'm quite happy mining it but I wouldn't trust it to do dodgy shit with it.

>>53141592
>I wouldn't trust it to do dodgy shit with it
Meh, seems to work for others

>>53141097
>I can feel it the undetected bug bringing it to zero in the air tonight

>If you need a 100% ironclad guarantee that the flight you're about to board will land safely don't get on the plane.

You can't fully eliminate bug risks from any software, numbnuts, you can only mitigate them down to an acceptable level.

And it bears reminding that Bitcoin has had twice as many inflation bugs as Monero, with one actually being exploited. The fix required a chain rollback that also erased 55 blocks worth of legitimate transactions. Oops!!!

>>53141178
>>53141464
>>53141592
>be afraid
>t. feds

>>53141633
>bitcoin supply bug status: DETECTED AND FIXED
>monero supply bug status: UNDETECTED
kek the absolute state of monero bag holders

I CAN FEEL IT *PAUSE* COMING IN THE AIR TONIGHT

>>53141884
>>bitcoin supply bug status: DETECTED AND FIXED

Retard, when the fix is as destructive as the bug itself then its all moot. An exploited inflation bug in 2023 with thousands of innocent users having their TXs invalidated and losing potentially billions in the process would destroy faith and confidence in Bitcoin forever, effectively killing it.

The only reason the first chain rollback didn't kill BTC is that hardly anybody was using it and the price was just 7 cents. A repeat today would be catastrophic and there is a non-zero chance of it happening again.


>>monero supply bug status: UNDETECTED

Retard, you can detect an exploited inflation bug indirectly buy gauging availability on exchanges since the hacker in question would be in mad dash to cash out as much as possible as quickly as possible before either the bug is discovered & patched or the value plummets.

Current status: XMR supply on exchanges is so limited that withdrawals keep being suspended.

Conclusion: there is no active inflation bug and its highly unlikely there ever will be one as long as the code keeps being audited and best practices are adhered to.

>>53141595
For now. If they crack it then there is a detailed list of all the bad shit people do.

>>53142035
your two points contradict each other and the second is cope
good job kek

>>53142153

Feel free to elaborate, retard.

>>53142035
"because the network is currently experiencing issues"
God i hate those fucking lying pieces of shit. Is this the best excuse they have?
I know the average user is a complete retard but now they are treating with people who got into crypto not just some boomer that needs guidance through every click. This doesn't mean their users have a vast knowledge in tech but i think this excuse is insufficient to anyone with a little knowledge.
Clearly they are selling paper XMR. soon the only approved withdraws of XMR from these sites will be only to authorized wallets.
I just can't wait until all of these motherfucker CEX delist monero completely once and for all, all of this passivity from governments towards monero is making the coin look weak, they should come after us with all they have.

>>53142035
COPE
A supply bug is much more destructive on monero than on bitcoin, all digital money can have bugs
>Let's use centralized exchange to detect monero supply bugs
Damn kek

>>53142310
>A supply bug is much more destructive on monero than on bitcoin

>Exploited inflation bug in Bitcoin

Option 1: don't fix it, destroy faith and confidence in Bitcoin forever.

Option 2: fix it by rolling back the chain, erase thousands of legitimate TXs in the process, destroy faith and confidence in Bitcoin forever.

Pick one.


>>Let's use centralized exchange to detect monero supply bugs

Most inflation bugs in Monero actually are detectable: https://www.moneroinflation.com/

And yeah, suddenly dumping a shitload of excess supply onto exchanges would indirectly signal something was up.

>>53142380
>Hold a currency which can immediatly detect supply anomaly
>Hold a currency which can always have an undetected supply anomaly
Pick one kek

>Monero option 1:don't detect it, destroy faith in monero
>Monero option 2:detect it after two decades, destroy faith in monero
Kek

>>53142310
If a supply bug happened to Bitcoin right now Bitcoin would immediately tank you retard and it likely would never recover.

>>53142525
>>Hold a currency which can immediatly detect supply anomaly

Immediate detection necessitating destructive fix = immediate panic selling and death spiral.

In other words, detection is one thing, fixing is another.


>>>Hold a currency which can always have an undetected supply anomaly

>>Flying on a modern airliner when the risk of a crash is always greater than zero.

It's astounding that so many people are willing to risk their lives like that!
>>>Monero option 1:don't detect it, destroy faith in monero

Undetectable supply anomaly can be inferred as mentioned above. Otherwise all other potential inflation bugs are detectable.


>>>Monero option 2:detect it after two decades, destroy faith in monero

Millions of extra XMR on the market would crash the price pretty quickly.


Bottom line: the risk of a destructive inflationary event exists for both BTC and XMR, at least with XMR you get fungibility and frictionless transacting.

How will monero survive the post quantum world? Chinese dog fuckers already claim that they will break rsa in 2 years

>>53142675
>and it likely would
Kek the cope again
All assets can experience this and the market knows about it, the best money is the money that can detect it the fastest and fix it fast

>>53142703
>Let's compare planes with a currency that has a better competitor
Kek
>inflation bugs are detectable
Too bad the answer is still no, as stated by getmonero.org
>at least with XMR you get fungibility
At least with XMR you get fungibility with undetectable supply bugs ensuring it never becomes the global currency
Please print that and learn it by heart until you stop coping >>53141097

you know things are getting bad in the bitcoin camp when they start flooding Monero threads on the daily. Why not just ignore that Monero exists and is the new standard on the darknet instead of having to repeat the same ancient FUD. Or perhaps they just come here out of the goodness of their heart to help those poor misguided Monero users get back to using public-ledger surveillance Bitcoin :^)

>>53142923
>Kek the cope again
>and fix it fast

the real cope is pretending the "fix" would work and everybody would be OK with innocent users losing their coins.

"Relax, it probably won't happen again, bro!"


>Let's compare planes with a currency that has a better competitor

Retard, the point is that there is no risk elimination, only risk mitigation. With minimized risk potentially dangerous ventures can become acceptable e.g. air travel and opaque ledgers.


>Too bad the answer is still no, as stated by getmonero.org

Are you actually retarded? The point being made there is only that there are no 100% ironclad guarantees, not that there are no guarantees at all. In fact with all the safeguards and mitigations in place there is a VERY high, essentially 99% guarantee that everything is indeed kosher. And people worldwide routinely get on planes with just a 99% chance of surviving the flight.


>At least with XMR you get fungibility with undetectable supply bugs ensuring it never becomes the global currency

lol and with Bitcoin you get NO fungibility while still being at risk of a catastrophic inflationary event.

And as for "muh undetectable supply bugs" we've already established that detectable supply bugs can be just as destructive.


>Please print that and learn it by heart until you stop coping >>53141097

Try reading through the whole thing first, moron. Pic related.

>>53141097
Why can't Monero just post some proof of TOTAL supply of all XMR (nothing to do with specific wallets).

>>53143754
>Why can't Monero just post some proof of TOTAL supply of all XMR (nothing to do with specific wallets).

Uh, are you new here? Coinbase transactions are transparent so every XMR coin that enters the ecosystem can be accounted for.

>>53143839
So why the FUD then?

>>53142923
>you get fungibility with undetectable supply bugs ensuring it never becomes the global currency

>uses fiat currency
>fiat has infinite supply
>fiat is printed non stop by central banks (this is a fact)
>central banks don't have to report how much they printed
>fiat always losing value

>muh hypothetically imaginary inflation bug is going to potentially destroy the coin at some point in human history, i better stick with my reliable fiat.

what a stupid faggot.

>>53143906
>So why the FUD then?

2 reasons:

1. Maxitarded bagholders are stuck watching helplessly as Bitcoin keeps on losing more and more real-world market share to Monero and now they're entering full-blown panic mode.

2. They don't understand how Monero actually works, what safeguards are in place to ensure supply veracity nor the difference between acceptable and unacceptable risks so they confidently roll out all these gotchas not realizing they're talking out of their ass.

>>53140992
>muhnegro
The g is silent

>>53143215
Lmao monerofag is seething when forced to acknowledge his coin is in fact possibly worthless as a store of value, denying the possibility to function as money
Supply bugs are to be expected, that's why you need certainty, not like in monero
Fungibility is useless for money if you have an undetected supply bug topkek

>>53143754
Because it's not transparent see >>53141097
Notice how he tries to manipulate you saying coinbase transactions are transparent which is true but it's not transaction amounts which is where the bug can happen >>53144019

>>53143957
>fiat fiat fiat
Lmao what? Kek
Yes an undetected supply bug can totally destroy monero since it can't be detected and fixed as fast as it should

>>53143906
It's because they're scared.
Inflation bugs can happen to any cryptocurrency. Saying that it is "worse" with Monero because it isn't transparent is an insane cope. Bitcoin would lose all credibility over night if someone created millions of Bitcoin out of thin air.
If you are scared of inflation bugs, then don't hold a lot of crypto. Simple as.

>>53144495
>but it's not transaction amounts which is where the bug can happen
You are fucking retarded. Coinbase transaction amounts are visible.
>possibly worthless as a store of value
Outperforming Bitcoin in this bear market and all signs point for that to continue.

>>53144495
> but it's not transaction amounts which is where the bug can happen
Wouldn’t the Monero trackers that provide total XMR show this increase?

>>53144495
>Lmao monerofag is seething when forced to acknowledge his coin is in fact possibly worthless as a store of value, denying the possibility to function as money
>Supply bugs are to be expected, that's why you need certainty, not like in monero

Notice how the seething maxipad continues to act like his surveillance shitcoin is somehow magically immune from being destroyed by a destructive chain rollback.


>>Supply bugs are to be expected

No they're not, dipshit. The odds of an inflationary event actually killing an established and widely-eyeballed cryptocurrency are TINY.
>>that's why you need certainty, not like in monero

There is NO certainty when it comes to software implementations, moron. The cryptography underlying Bitcoin's transaction signing scheme might also theoretically be broken, you'll NEVER have 100% certainty it isn't but yet you'll continue to use Bitcoin without worry because its still VERY unlikely.
>>Fungibility is useless for money if you have an undetected supply bug

The right here is the quote of the thread, we've hit peak maxitard.

No fungibility = no censorship resistance = no future.
>Notice how he tries to manipulate you saying coinbase transactions are transparent which is true but it's not transaction amounts which is where the bug can happen

Transactions amounts are kept in check by zero-knowledge range proofs (Bulletproofs+), which mathematically validate that inputs and outputs sum to zero. These range proofs are open sauce and have been subjected to multiple rounds of 3rd party auditing. There could THEORETICALLY be a bug in there that everybody has missed but then again there could THEORETICALLY be a bug in Bitcoin's transaction signing scheme as well.
>Yes an undetected supply bug can totally destroy monero since it can't be detected and fixed as fast as it should

lol as opposed to Bitcoin? Do enlighten us, how exactly would you fix an exploited inflation bug in Bitcoin *without* rolling back the chain?

>>53144519
The cope is completely ignoring the fact that a global currency cannot function without absolute certainty of no supply bug, the best money wins
Any software can have bugs, that doesn't mean we will abandon money

>>53144559
The problem isn't coinbase transactions which are indeed transparent
0.009 btc for 1 xmr, let's go you can make it

>>53144614
No, see >>53141097

>>53144614
>Wouldn’t the Monero trackers that provide total XMR show this increase?

Yep, every time you sync a node the total supply is validated. There's a more in-depth rundown on what measures are in place to ensure supply reliability here:

>Check the ring signatures
The goal here is to validate the transactions by checking its signature. We will need to understand the ring signature scheme in the Pre-RingCT Era, the adoption of the generalization of ring signatures MLSAG (Multilayered Linkable Spontaneous Anonymous Group) and a more concise ring signature scheme CLSAG (Concise Linkable Spontaneous Anonymous Group).

>Check the amounts
The goal here is to confirm that the amount of XMR in the inputs are equal to the amount of xmr in the outputs. We will understand rangeproofs and how the amounts are hidden.

>Check the uniqueness of key images
The goal here is to scan the blockchain and confirm that every key_image is unique in the key_images set to prevent a double-spending transaction.

>Check the emission
The goal here is to scan the blockchain and confirm that the miners generated up to the maximum XMR values allowed according to the pre-stablished emission curve. We also want to verify that the collected fees match the equation fees = inputs - outputs.

https://www.moneroinflation.com/approach

>>53145187
>The cope is completely ignoring the fact that a global currency cannot function without absolute certainty of no supply bug

Notice how the seething maxipad continues to act like his surveillance shitcoin is somehow magically immune from being destroyed by a destructive chain rollback.

>>53145187
>cope is completely ignoring the fact that a global currency cannot function without absolute certainty of no supply bug
Nigger do you even understand Jerome powers money printer?
>The problem isn't coinbase transactions which are indeed transparent
0.009 btc for 1 xmr, let's go you can make it
Learn English. This doesn't make any sense

>>53145146
>chain rollback
And what about undetected supply bugs with no chain rollback when it needs to?

>No they're not, dipshit
They are possible, so you shall expect it to happen, and fix it as soon as possible, if you don't expect it the bug will run for longer and do more damage

>There is NO certainty when it comes to software implementations
What are formal verifications lmao, also nice attempt to change subject, which is supply

>No fungibility = no censorship resistance = no future
Bitcoin can still achieve fungibility eventually, hiding everything except amounts might work, monero cannot go back to have its supply transparent, monero cannot become a global currency because of it
A currency with an uncertain supply cannot be a proper currency ever, it's literally the worst thing you can think of for money, worse than fungibility

>There could THEORETICALLY be a bug in there that everybody has missed but then again there could THEORETICALLY be a bug in Bitcoin's transaction signing scheme as well.
Nice try trying to ignore the problem, monero relies on an assumption and there is no certainty, as for bitcoin there is certainty related to its supply, read getmonero.org again

>how exactly would you fix an exploited inflation bug in Bitcoin *without* rolling back the chain?
You would most likely need to fork the chain and remove the amounts in the transactions related to the supply bug


>>53144614
Don't listen to >>53145229 he's a delusional monero cultist, read the pic >>53141097 it'll show that he's trying to make you believe the supply of monero can be validated, there are no certainties

>>53145271
Notice how monerofags which can't deal with the supply uncertainty are trying to cope by saying bitcoin won't survive a supply bug, when the market knows that any money can have terrible bugs like this
What will people do, dump bitcoin and jump into another money which will be inevitably subject to the same bug eventually? Kek

>>53145533
>Bitcoin can still achieve fungibility eventually

kek. 14 more years.

>as for bitcoin there is certainty related to its supply

not really. there isn't even a certainty that there will only be 21M bitcoin ever mined. see https://news.bitcoin.com/bitcoin-history-part-10-the-184-billion-btc-bug/

>>53141097
>100% no-holds-barred guarantee of supply

>>53145187
>a global currency cannot function without absolute certainty of no supply bug

this has never been the case in any currency in history, and it still isn't. gold and silver were faked and reserves were fabricated when it was the standard, and it worked just fine for 5000 years. in other words, even if there was LE EBIN INFLAYSHWN BUG monero can do the job just fine. so can dogebat for that matter.
people lie, and lies can easily perpetuate for centuries before anyone gets wise. software has the risk of bugs, but at least with software it's really fucking hard to pull off something catastrophic without everyone finding out what you did and patching it within a few hours.

did you even read the article that you're using to spread fud or did you just take a screenshot? https://www.getmonero.org/2020/01/17/auditability.html

>>53145806
>not really
Yes, you can know the supply of bitcoin without crypto assumptions because it's transparent

>if there was LE EBIN INFLAYSHWN BUG monero can do the job just fine
The issue is competition of money, gold was the best for a long time, bitcoin is better than monero in regards to knowing its supply
That's why bitcoin is worth 100x+ more than monero
Yes I've read it, it's real, and if monero was better than bitcoin I wouldn't hesitate to say it's better, I'm just being honest and rational

>>53145964
That said I wish there was a crypto with both the strengths of bitcoin and monero, I don't dislike monero, I consider both as important assets

>>53145964
>you can know the supply of bitcoin without crypto assumptions
Bitcoin relies on cryptographic assumption you retard.
>bitcoin is better than monero in regards to knowing its supply
This is true. But it doesn't change the fact that Bitcoin can still get an inflation bug, and if it does, it would irreparably damage Bitcoin's reputation, which you continue to handwave away because it destroys your narrative.
>That's why bitcoin is worth 100x+ more than monero
Making sense of a clown market just shows how off people like you are. You'll eventually fomo into Monero once you've missed out on the gains. Buy high sell low brainlet.
>>53145998
>I don't dislike Monero
Says the maxi retard sperging out

>>53145964
>mining dominated by a handful of pools, all ASICs now manufactured by a single company, bitcoiners gave up on p2pool
>le old bitcoin codebase using 10+ year old cryptography, underdeveloped-yet-overcomplicated scripting system, 32bit nTime bug, various bugs like the discrete "halfenings" as pointed out by CryptoNote whitepaper
>retarded blocksize forces everyone to use the centralized lightning network, will never be able to onboard users on a global scale due to cost of opening channels, LN still susceptible to sybil attacks
>the last remaining "true bitcoiners" left after XT dispute, community education has failed and >90% of bitcoiners are moonboys who keep their bitcoin on exchanges, bitcoin will never be able to hard fork again because of retarded community
>satoshi gone, leadership gone, no network upgrades, development is completely controlled by blockstream
>gave up on privacy and fungibility, all CopeJoin outputs are considered tainted and blocked from KYC exchanges, chainalysis wreaks havoc, mixers like samurai or tornado cash shut down by feds and no one cares
>bitcoin's flaws and bugs are constantly marketed as "features" by bagholders, ensuring that they will never be fixed
>"uh, actually fungibility and privacy is bad because it prevents me from counting the coins by hand like a fucking retard. therefore my bags are worth 1000x your bags checkmate monero shills"
cope and seethe bittard

>>53145533
>And what about undetected supply bugs with no chain rollback when it needs to?

What about them? An exploited inflation bug spells doom regardless.

With Monero, the inability to fix an undetectable supply bug would likely kill it. With Bitcoin, the fix itself would likely kill it. Both end up equally fucked.

But the likelihood of such an event is still so tiny its not even worth worrying about.


>They are possible, so you shall expect it to happen

Anything is possible, not everything is likely.


>and fix it as soon as possible,

Yeah? How?


>What are formal verifications lmao, also nice attempt to change subject, which is supply

>Formal verification does not guarantee a secure system. Nothing guarantees a secure system. What formal verification can do is provide a very high assurance that some parts of the system are secure.

https://security.stackexchange.com/questions/21441/how-does-formal-verification-guarantee-secure-error-free-code

As mentioned, there are NO guarantees when it comes to software. There is only risk reduction.

>>53145533
>Bitcoin can still achieve fungibility eventually, hiding everything except amounts might work

lol. No hidden amounts = no true fungibility. Monero didn't have shielded amounts until RingCT was introduced in 2017 and suffered from persistent traceability issues as a result.


>A currency with an uncertain supply cannot be a proper currency ever, it's literally the worst thing you can think of for money, worse than fungibility

You're essentially making the argument that because there is ALWAYS a non-zero chance of the plane crashing NOBODY should EVER fly. That's not how life works, pal, there are acceptable risks and there are unacceptable risks. As long as best practices are maintained air travel is 99% safe and that is good enough for pretty much MOST people. Same goes for software.

>Nice try trying to ignore the problem, monero relies on an assumption and there is no certainty, as for bitcoin there is certainty related to its supply, read getmonero.org again

The article you cited literally spells out the opposite lol:

>Notably, the use of a transparent asset is not sufficient to guarantee safety of funds. It is true that supply transparency means that inflation can in theory be detected by an appropriate implementation, but the remediation of supply inflation could mean that transactions are reverted and honest funds are affected.

i.e. Bitcoin is still vulnerable to the destructive effects of a chain rollback. There is still NO certainty.


>he's trying to make you believe the supply of monero can be validated, there are no certainties

lol who said anything about "certainty?" There is no certainty, there are only likelihoods, and the likelihood of a destructive inflationary event in either BTC or XMR is so tiny its negligible.

>>53145998
what strengths does bitcoin have other than brand recognition? curious

>>53145964
and again, knowing the total supply has never been needed for a global reserve currency. the only things needed are:
-verification of the amount of supply on hand
-authenticity of the supply on hand to prevent counterfeits

total supply of the currency has been irrelevant up to this point in history. saying that it's suddenly needed now is a cope. in fact, TPTB are perfectly fine with using a global reserve currency with a totally unknowable supply, as they're willingly pushing CBDCs that can be printed and destroyed at will.

>>53146230
>Bitcoin relies on cryptographic assumption you retard.
The subject is supply. Supply, okay? Supply
>it would irreparably damage Bitcoin's reputation, which you continue to handwave away because it destroys your narrative.
This is cope, if bitcoin is the global currency the world wouldn't move to another currency because the bug can happen to any currency, and besides that knowing the supply with certainty is a requirement
>Buy high sell low brainlet.
I own monero too, market prices have meaning, monero had plenty of time to be worth much more than that, it's probably undervalued though given its use case

>>53146294
>>53146276
>>53146267
>>53146246
Holy shit monerofags army absolutely SEETHING, I'll try to address your concerns tonight, but understand that I don't have the time to explain to every monerofags how terrible is this reality for some >>53141097

>>53146333
It does not matter. Double spending bug, inflation bug, it completely breaks the currency either way.
The fact that you consider an inflation bug more important than a double-spending bug is very telling: it shows that you care more about than its use as a speculative investment (muh hecking inflation!) than as actual cash. see pic related.

An inflation bug in monero would be no more dangerous than a double spending bug. It is equally as dangerous. The only reason you say this is because bitcoin would have an obvious inflation bug where monero would have a non-obvious one. It is stupid because any required hard fork in bitcoin would cause its value to tank, so you would actually be better off with a non-obvious inflation bug than an obvious inflation bug,

>>53146375
People like you ruined bitcoin

>>53146458
Was this graph ever updated?

>>53146494
ask the author, the article it's based on is from 2018: https://medium.com/@nic__carter/visions-of-bitcoin-4b7b7cbcd24c

I include the image in my last post because it shows that there has been a change in narrative since the inception of bitcoin: bitcoiners these days care more about their bags than creating a usable form of cash as satoshi intended. This change in narrative is reflected in the way that bitcoiners speak and what they choose to talk about. For example: why do they care so much about the scarcity of bitcoin's supply when everything else about their cryptocurrency is broken? Either their standards are completely misaligned with any real usage of the cryptocurrency, or they are just saying whatever is necessary to justify bitcoin's often arbitrary and flawed design decisions.

>>53146375
do you think the babylonians knew how much gold and silver existed in the entire world before settling on it as the reserve currency? how about the entirety of europe after the roman empire collapsed? the aztecs? no. it was just easy to count how much gold and silver there was on hand and easy to verify if it was real or fake.
a knowable supply has nothing to do with a currency's ability to serve as a reserve currency. what matters most is that the supply on hand between 2 parties can be authenticated before and after it's traded, and literally any shitcoin is capable of doing this. and in case you still can't get it through your head: there has literally been an inflation bug in the USD for 90 years and it still serves as the reserve currency.

the only thing knowing the total supply would do is make it really easy to figure out the value of each individual currency unit relative to goods and services, which you'd only be concerned about if you're a moonfag for your good/service/currency unit of choice

>>53146246
Bitcoin is currently more secure than monero when it comes to resilience to attacks
Block size will have to be increased, probably in the far future
I never said fungibility is bad, just that no supply certainty is a worse problem in monero
>Conspiracy theories
Kek

>>53146267
>stackexchange
Nice googling but formal verification works and supply is certain regardless
All you have is hoping that bitcoin will die in case of a big issue, it won't die, all money can have this issue and all softwares can be fixed, and bitcoin has better chances to succeed as global money currently
At least you're less delusional as some other monero cultists

>>53146276
And currently fungibility as in monero = no supply certainty which prevents it to be global money when bitcoin exists
I make the case that bitcoin is better than monero, competition of money
Big cope, all your argument is like "bitcoin will not survive in case of a supply bug so let's not care about supply", can't imagine a bigger cope
Yes there are certainty in the bitcoin supply

>>53146288
Supply certainty, capped supply (no tail emission), resilience, conservative protocol, extra years of challenge and experience, legitimity, simplicity (monero can also be said simple in some ways)

>>53146294
The problem is that there's a better alternative than monero, the best money wins, I don't even agree that a good money doesn't need supply certainties, it's needed, we need good money not weak money like the one you're mentioning

>>53146458
>it doesn't matter
Of course it matters, do you realize how desperate you sound? Yes it matters, we shall know if our money is broken or not. Bugs can be fixed. Inflation bug or double spending is the same, it shall not happen and we must know about it. I think price is important because it reflects the level of demand, more demand and more users that would participate in the network

>>53146476
How so?

>>53146644
Scarcity is important, why do you think satoshi made the supply fixed? Bitcoin is not broken.


>>53146792
We're not babylonians, the same way humans in year 100k will be far more advanced than us, we progress, we have better money, and currently we have a choice between currencies with supply certainty and currencies with no supply certainties, guess who will win the competition

"a knowable supply has nothing to do with a currency's ability to serve as a reserve currency."
For you, I disagree and the market too, normal humans need certainties, reality can be hard to accept sometimes

>>53147808
>I make the case that bitcoin is better than monero, competition of money

Really makes you think.

>>53147808
Bitcoin is clearly less resilient than monero. It will succumb to selfish mining attacks in the coming years: https://eprint.iacr.org/2020/094.pdf https://cryptostackers.substack.com/p/bitcoin-is-not-a-store-of-value . Monero mitigates this with tail emission.

>>53147821
>How so?
You shill for all of bitcoin's weaknesses and bugs as if they are features. which ensures that they will never be fixed.

>>53147821
Certainties don't exist, anon, as you keep pointing out. There were 185 billion out of a 'hard cap' of 21 million bitcoin in existence at one point ; there's a non-zero percent chance that a similar event will happen again. This is a fact that's been pointed out here already. Your arguments are based on faith that either such an event won't happen again, or if it did it will be easily spotted and fixed because the supply is 'transparent', whatever that means. You have no way of verifying either of these things.

You have more faith in bitcoin than monero, and that's fine. It's not blind faith, but it's still faith, and I'm tired of watching you pretend that it's not desu senpai

>>53147808
>Of course it matters, do you realize how desperate you sound?
You have missed the points there entirely. Re-read my post you illiterate dog.
It does not matter if it is an inflation bug: you have to hard fork in order to fix it anyways. If you hard fork monero, it will be fine (monero has regular hard forks anyways every 6mo). If you hard fork bitcoin, the price (expected value) will tank and you might as well start over from genesis. This is because bitcoiners are hardfork-averse since the XT dispute. "If you are going to hard fork anyways, might as well just use bitcoin cash" is the logic.
As I said earlier, the fact that you focus so much on inflation bug is because there is a minor difference in that an inflation bug would be non-obvious in monero and obvious in bitcoin. However this difference does not even work in bitcoin's favor: if there was an inflation bug in bitcoin, it is better that it is NOT known, because bitcoin cannot successfully hard fork (as I said earlier, you are essentially starting over from genesis economically speaking)
This is ignoring the stupid argument that the marginal utility of being able to verify the supply slightly easier somehow outweighs the utility of having a fungible cryptocurrency: it is clearly not the case by any reasonable value judgement.

>>53147821
>>53148844
And even if the supply did increase 100x due to some bug we didn't catch in time, as long as those extra coins weren't stolen directly from your wallet, who cares? All that happens is that you lose purchasing power because of some bullshit event outside of your control like a large number of our ancestors did at one point. You still have a decentralized, permissionless currency that can't be stolen from you without your private key, which was the whole point of crypto. It's still the best form of currency we humans ever invented; an inflation bug won't change that.

As I've pointed out, the 'muh supply' argument is only a concern if you're worried about losing purchasing power/you're a speculative moonfaggot, and in that case if that's your biggest concern instead of whether or not you'll still be able to spend it, you want gold, not bitcoin

>>53147821
living in the past, this is pathetic. Keep up.
>reality can be hard to accept sometimes
like that markets choose Monero now and not Bitcoin?