/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>52454707
Maybe we need to deposit something just till he's back on his feet.

Tweeted on his private jet lol

>>52454707
>We still have a chance of getting our funds back.
No we don't. This is his GOAL. Even if he was honest, which he isnt (remember the everything is fine tweet right before the complete collapse?) there is no way in hell we as customers get our shit back. Hell this is worse than mt gox and the people that got goxed are still waiting 7 years later no?

FUNDS STATUS?

>>52454707
what is this mental illness called? when someone is caught red handed and they keep denying it like a child who is caught stealing

>>52454790
judaism

>>52454790
Judaism

>>52454707
he's not in charge of the company anymore

>>52454790
judaism

>>52454779
SAFU (Shits All Fucked Up)

>>52454707
>i spent all of your money
>i wont rest until I find someone else to give you your money back instead of me
>this is my goal

>>52454790
Judaism.

>>52454815

Was he ever? He seems more and more like an inept, autistic fall guy.

>>52454707
Anyone who unironically does anything with FTX, their subsidiaries or this fucking kike after all this shit deserves it

>>52454747
Where is this traded now?

>>52454707
if he said he was going to mess things up and obscure everything while destroying customers then i would believe he was cleaning up and focusing on transparency and making customers whole. because he's a liar

>>52455145
Yes, he was. This is a pathetic act you disingenuous kike

>>52454790
Judaism

>>52455151
Will there even be an after? The platforms have to be dead. Not that I'd know, never touched the stuff myself.

>>52454707
lmao no

>>52454790
Judaism

>>52455145
You and your family Sam...
You your loved ones and your family and your cousins your pets your toys everything.
You gotta kill me to stop it or make everything right by giving us all your money today.
You won't.
You better get out of my country and your parents and your entire lineage because you broke this goy and I ain't going to stop till you or i am dead.

So now they're gonna redeem this faggot? Gimme a break

>>52455157

You get an IOU that you have traded it on itself, by itself, to itself.

>>52455212
He thinks they're going to help him. He doesn't know...

>>52454747
FTT shortsqueeze bros....

>>52454707
When is he flying to israel, and the adl declares all criticisms of him anti-semitic?

>>52454790
judaism

Lol, lmao even

Transparency btw

>>52455240
sigh... all I have left is Anya.

>>52454707
my goal is to eradicate jews. doesn't mean I'm going to reach my goal in my lifetime.

>>52454790
Judaism.

>>52455227
Can't wait to see you idiots get rekt once more.

>>52454761
Every word that makes the goy pause and think, discuss and argue among themselves, is putting time and distance between the righteous men and the scurrying jew rat.

>>52454790
J

>>52455268
Well I have nothing left, no family, they killed my pets and now I've snapped mentally.

Had they not stolen every god damn dime from me maybe I wouldn't have snapped but not only did they steal my house in 2008 they burned it down for the insurance money, stole all my life savings in 2021 then I got a 17k settlement from getting nearly killed by a nigger "randomly" and that got stolen within 2 days of buying back into crypto in october.
I'm ready to kill as many semetic mothefuckers as I can before I go down.

>>52455309
Haha, you won’t do shit.
Prove me wrong. Stop holding your dick.

>>52454790
Looked it up, Webster says judaism

>>52454790
Taking advantage of dumbass cattle goyim who deserved it.

>>52454790
Judaism

>>52455351
Get off your phone nigger and let's chat
I got a 30-06 and a .45 with crosses carved into each bullet.

>>52454790
Judaism

>>52454707
"I will give you your money back goy, just give me time"

>>52455452
>I got a 30-06 and a .45 with crosses carved into each bullet.
pics with timestamp or LARP

I have no idea how people are tolerating getting mocked like this.

>>52454812
>>52454814
>>52454863
>>52455123
>>52455172
>>52455186
>>52455241
>>52455271
>>52455303
>>52455379
>>52455390
>>52455474
I love it when /biz/ is just like /pol/ because its always right

>>52454707
He meant make customers hole (gape)

>>52454790
Protocol of the Learned Zoomers of Zion

>>52454707

Literally bankrupt. What a scamming piece of shit. He just can't stop. How the fuck is ftt still listed on exchanges? Disgusting. Shit's been delisted for much less.

>>52454790
judaismus

>>52454707
nice to have goals, hahahaha, my goal is to have a private harem of japanese schoolgirls

>>52455691
>sir please

>>52455642
/pol/ is usually wrong, including about the Jews

>>52455728
sir please redeem the FTX marketplace

>>52455599
don't do it anon, they gonna backtrace you

>>52454707
>We still have a chance of getting our funds back.

>>52454790
Judaism

>>52454790
kikeism

>>52454790
Judaism

>>52454790
Juden

>>52455869
This, fuck /pol/, look at obvious evidence of fraud not noses

>>52454790
Judaism

>>52454707
he's just getting off on torturing the goyim at this point.

>>52454707
my goal is total kike genocide worldwide in order to usher in a Golden Age of peace and prosperity. the complete destruction of evil. someone please relay this to Bankman, I'm not on twitter.

>>52454790
Judaism

>>52454707
they lost billions, there is no money.

>>52454790
Judaism

>>52454707
>We still have a chance of getting our funds back.
Never gonna happen.

>>52454726
holy fuck that picture KEK

>>52455869
>usually wrong, including about the Jews
i'll throw you down a well, you stinky fucking kike

I heard that he's going to be bailed out with U.S. taxpayer dollars.

>>52454790
heroin addict

>>52454707
Issac, make us whole again

>>52457777
holy fuck, those digits, CHECKED

>>52454790
Judaism

>>52454726
kid is kinda based honestly

>>52455869
Stephen Miller is the most based human on Earth and is Jew so it is tough because there are also at the same time so many awful Jews.

>>52454790
Judaism

>>52458139
If a nigger kid was doing it you would be saying very different thing

>>52454707

>>52458139
Based on the Torah.

>>52457777

>>52458455
Nah

>$38B being sent to "ukraine"
>$10B ends up with SBF
All hail the savior of crypto!

>>52454707
Does people here unironically have money on FTX?

>>52457452
kys

>>52455642
/biz/ is the financial arm of /pol/

>>52459469
so /pol/ is indeed a jewish psyop

>>52454790
Judaism

>>52454707
what level of cope is this

>>52454790
I'd imagine the answer to this would be very anti-semetic. Therefore I would not touch this one with even a 6 million ft pole

Latest Money Stuff on Newsletterhunt dot com.
Matt's has written good stuff on FTX for the last week, all of it can be read there. He's someone who's interviewed Bankman-Fried in person a couple times, and has enough background to decipher a lot of What H-A-P-P-E-N-E-D.

>>52459763
Binance bailout fund

Has there ever been a pure liquidity problem at a crypto firm? Like what I have in mind is this:

- A crypto firm owes $100 (in crypto I guess) to somebody (customers, lenders) who can demand their money back on short notice.
- The firm has $200 worth of stuff (crypto assets I guess).
- The customers or lenders demand their $100 back all at once.
- The firm’s $200 worth of stuff is not immediately accessible for some reason: It is in long-term crypto-denominated mortgages, say. Or it is in locked crypto tokens. Or it is in crypto tokens and there is, for some reason, a temporary lack of liquidity in the market for those tokens. Or it is a large quantity of some crypto token that could be sold for $200 over the course of a week or two, but if you sell it in an hour or two — to give people their money back all at once — that will crash the price.
- The firm cannot raise $100 to pay back its customers or lenders, and implodes.
- But it had $200 worth of stuff! Very unfair.

>>52459797
This, to be clear, is the standard story of bank runs in traditional banking. It is the Diamond-Dybvig model that won a Nobel Memorial Prize this year. The standard problem is “the assets are good but long-term, and the customers want their money now.” It is the problem that central banks are set up to solve. The solution is fairly straightforward: You have a central bank with lots of money (ideally, in modern central banking, the ability to print money). If a bank with good assets is facing a liquidity crunch, it can go to the central bank and say “we have $200 of assets but we can’t get $100 of cash, help,” and the central bank will help. It will help by “lending freely, against good collateral, at a penalty rate,” as Bagehot’s famous formula goes: The central bank will lend the bank $100 to pay its depositors, but first it will make sure that the bank really has $200 of good stuff. (And it will charge interest.) If a bank shows up at the Federal Reserve and says “hi we owe depositors $100 but don’t have it, we lost it all on roulette,” the Fed will not help. [1]

>>52459813
Meanwhile in crypto I just don’t hear a lot of stories like that? I am not saying it is impossible, or even that unlikely; I am just saying that I’ve never really heard of it happening. Oh I mean I have heard many many stories, in crypto, that have the same rough shape, “run on the bank” stories. But the ones I have heard are all subtly different. They go like this:

- A crypto firm owes $100 to customers or lenders.
- The firm’s balance sheet shows $200 worth of stuff.
- Somebody notices that the $200 worth of stuff is just a piece of paper with the words “this is worth $200” scrawled on it in crayon, and points that out online.
- The customers or lenders read this and, sensibly, demand their $100 back all at once.
- The firm tries to shop its scrawled piece of paper to raise the $100, and gets bids for it of zero dollars.
- The firm cannot raise $100 to pay back its customers or lenders, and implodes.
- But it had $0 worth of stuff, so this seems like a pretty reasonable result, though of course bad for customers.

>>52459840
In other words, every crypto liquidity crisis story that I have heard is obviously a solvency crisis. The problem is not that the firm has good assets but cannot, for some reason, convert them quickly into ready money. The problem is that the firm has bad assets and people notice and demand their money back and the money isn’t there. The reasons the money isn’t there will vary. Sometimes the firm just lost money on risky trades. Sometimes the money all went into magic beans and the magic bean market collapsed. (This is the story of TerraUSD and Luna.) Sometimes the money was stolen by hackers, or by the firm’s executives, or both.

But the story is never “this crypto firm took demand deposits and used them to fund 30-year mortgages, and while those mortgages are still paying and are likely to be money-good, the firm doesn’t have the cash right now.” Because that is, uh, not really how crypto works? Compared to banks, crypto firms probably have a bit more carelessness and fraud, but they definitely have a lot more magic beans. Crypto firms tend to have assets that do not have cash flows, and that are highly correlated to confidence in crypto — often highly correlated to confidence in that firm itself — and so when they lose confidence they also tend to lose their assets.

>>52459858
Anyway here’s a tweet from Changpeng “CZ” Zhao, the chief executive officer of Binance Holdings Ltd.:

>To reduce further cascading negative effects of FTX, Binance is forming an industry recovery fund, to help projects who are otherwise strong, but in a liquidity crisis. More details to come soon. In the meantime, please contact Binance Labs if you think you qualify.

The most notable liquidity crisis in crypto this year was at FTX.com, the big crypto exchange founded by Sam Bankman-Fried. And when FTX needed money for customer withdrawals, it went to Binance for a bailout. And Binance agreed to rescue FTX, subject to due diligence. And then Binance did like 15 minutes of due diligence and said absolutely not, and the deal fell apart. Because it is pretty obvious that FTX is not “otherwise strong, but in a liquidity crisis”: FTX is in a solvency crisis, in which the customer money is mostly gone and what’s left is mostly worthless beans.

>>52459873
Several of the other most notable liquidity crises in crypto this year were at firms that were themselves bailed out by FTX and Alameda Research, a hedge fund that was also founded by Bankman-Fried and that was closely associated with FTX. For whatever reason, FTX and Alameda do not seem to have concerned themselves too much with whether the firms they were rescuing were solvent. [2]

It is possible that over the next few years there will be a Binance-led industry recovery fund, and it will act like a central bank for crypto, and it will lend freely, against good collateral, at penalty rates. And occasionally, in challenging markets, crypto projects that are otherwise strong, but in a liquidity crisis, will come to the Central Binance Bank to borrow money, and the Central Binance Bank will support them, and they will preserve long-term value. But if the Central Binance Bank had existed this year, how many projects would it have saved? Not FTX, anyway.

>>52459888

More FTX
That said, if you just wanted to have a liquidity crisis, here’s one way to do it:

Meanwhile, at a meeting with Alameda employees on Wednesday, [Alameda CEO Caroline Ellison explained what had caused the collapse, according to a person familiar with the matter. Her voice shaking, she apologized, saying she had let the group down. Over recent months, she said, Alameda had taken out loans and used the money to make venture capital investments, among other expenditures.

Around the time the crypto market crashed this spring, Ms. Ellison explained, lenders moved to recall those loans, the person familiar with the meeting said. But the funds that Alameda had spent were no longer easily available, so the company used FTX customer funds to make the payments.

Yes, no, right, if you are a crypto hedge fund, and you take out short-term loans, and you use those loans to make venture capital investments, then your loans will come due long before the time horizon of your venture investments, and then I guess you’ll … use customer money from your affiliated exchange to repay the loans? What was the good way for this to go?

>>52459920
We talked extensively yesterday about the crisis at FTX. The basic situation is:

1. FTX owes customers something like $9 billion.
2. Its balance sheet — really the combined balance sheet of FTX, Alameda and various affiliates — consists mostly of cobwebs and magic beans.
3.Where did the money go?

“Into venture investments” is only a very partial answer, since those venture investments are on the balance sheet, at cost, totaling about $3 billion. I speculated on some other possibilities, with the simplest being something like “Alameda made leveraged bets on cryptocurrencies, lost money in volatile crypto markets, and took FTX customer money to pay back its loans.”

>>52458139
and that's why there's no bring your own cup day anymore

>>52459944
But this is all very speculative and there are not a lot of facts available. You can find other explanations online, and I would like to link to some of them here, with heavy caveats. I don’t want to vouch for these analyses, because they are speculative and sometimes anonymous and the facts remain murky. But I do want to summarize them, because they are interesting and sort of rhyme with each other. Here is a blog post from “Milky Eggs” on “What happened at Alameda Research,” and here are Twitter threads from Tensai Capital and Doug Colkitt.

Basically if you read these accounts, not necessarily focusing too much on specific hard-to-verify claims, the sense you will get is something like:

1. Alameda Research did a ton of trading on FTX. If you — a regular person or a crypto hedge fund — came to FTX to trade, there’s a good chance you were trading against Alameda.
2. Alameda was not very good at trading. If you traded against Alameda on FTX, there’s a good chance you made money.

>>52459970
What exactly No. 2 means can vary. It could mean, like, on a market microstructure level, Alameda did not have the best view of crypto prices, and so sophisticated high-frequency crypto traders could reliably make money trading against it. (Colkitt: “Crypto trading firms had the illusion they were skilled. Instead all they were doing was winning against the Washington Generals.”) But it could also be a story about FTX’s liquidation engine: Customers could make levered bets on cryptocurrencies on FTX and be automatically liquidated if the bets moved against them, and this liquidation seems to have consisted largely of Alameda buying their positions. This was a good experience for customers — it made betting on FTX more predictable and less risky — and possibly good for Alameda, if it bought stuff that went down and then the stuff went up again.

>>52454790
judaism

>>52460003
But when the (rhymes with Tuna) token collapsed earlier this year, Alameda would (on this theory) have been buying tons of it all the way down, leaving it with a huge worthless stash and a big loss.

>>52460067
But never mind the details; the point of this theory is that FTX offered a very good customer experience to traders — if you traded on FTX, you made money — at the expense of Alameda constantly losing money to those traders. And when money got too tight at Alameda, the theory goes, FTX dipped into customer money to keep Alameda afloat.

If you believe some form of this theory, it is a mixed bag. On the one hand, doesn’t it sound sort of nice? FTX wasn’t dipping into customer money to make wild speculative bets, or to pay for its executives’ lifestyles. It was just really committed to providing a good customer experience, and that is expensive, and so it ended up running at a loss, and unfortunately it dipped into customer money to subsidize that loss. The other good news, on this theory, is that the answer to the question “where did the money go” would be “mostly back to the customers”: Some customers’ funds were lost, but they went back to other customers in the form of trading gains.

On the other hand, there is a technical name, in law and finance, for this sort of thing. It is a bad name. When you have a business that takes money from some customers and uses it to generate trading gains for other customers, that’s just, I am sorry, a Ponzi scheme. I am not sure it’s worse than any other explanation of what happened — in any case, the customer money is missing! — but it’s not good.

>>52460075
In other FTX news, the Wall Street Journal reports that “FTX filed for bankruptcy last week, but the cryptocurrency exchange’s founder still thinks that he can raise enough money to make users whole, according to people familiar with the matter. Mr. Bankman-Fried, alongside a few remaining employees, spent the past weekend calling around in search of commitments from investors to plug a shortfall of up to $8 billion in the hopes of repaying FTX’s customers, the people said.” I really do not understand what investors would be getting for their $8 billion but I guess I hope it works? I hope he’s calling the Binance fund.

>>52454707
you stupid fuck

>>52460083
And FTX’s chaotic bankruptcy filing means we still don’t have much in the way of information from FTX about what happened, though that is starting to change a little bit. Here is a motion filed by FTX in its bankruptcy case yesterday; it isn’t very interesting, honestly, but it does have this short version of the collapse:

>FTX faced a severe liquidity crisis that necessitated the filing of these cases on an emergency basis last Friday. Questions arose about Ml. Bankman-Fried's leadership and the handling of FTX's complex array of assets and businesses under his direction. As the situation became increasingly dire, Sullivan & Cromwell and Ãlvarez & Marsal North America, LLC ("Alvarez & Marsal") were engaged to provide restructuring advice and services to FTX. At approximately 4:30 a.m. on Friday, November 11, after consultation with his own legal counsel, Mr. Bankman-Fried ultimately agreed to step aside, resulting in the appointment of John J. Ray III, an experienced restructuring executive, as Chief Executive Officer.

>>52460096
And the New York Times reports that Bankman-Fried “has also found other ways to occupy his time in recent days, playing the video game Storybook Brawl, though less than he usually does,” and … doing weird tweets?

>Shortly before the interview, Mr. Bankman-Fried had posted a cryptic tweet: the word “What.” Then he had tweeted the letter H. Asked to explain, Mr. Bankman-Fried said he planned to post the letter A and then the letter P. “It’s going to be more than one word,” he said. “I’m making it up as I go.”

>So he was planning a series of cryptic tweets? >“Something like that.”

>But why? “I don’t know,” he said. “I’m improvising. I think it’s time.”

By noon today he got through “What H-A-P-P-E-N-E-D,” followed by a legal disclaimer and “I'll get to what happened. But for now, let's talk about where we are today.”

>>52454790
judaism, also known as chosen-itis

>>52454726

> cop giving thumbs up
> black person watching and following what they see

Yeah pretty much sums it up

Explain FTX

>>52458139
Technically it's not a cup that he's using. They love to hair split argue over semantics, why not here?

>>52458139
kid is a faggot, and his parents are faggots for taking the picture, imagine being there and watching that in person

>>52461004
Imagine being the fucking wagie that had to fill those machines twice to satisfy that kikelet. Someone shoop it in paint, I'm no artist.

>>52454707
wagmi bros!
Can’t wait to deposit a portion of my wagie bi weekly pay! All those who doubted SBF are literally anti Semitic pieces of shit. LETS FUCKING GOOOOOOOOO