/biz/ - Business & Finance

My first thought was how can someone like you even breathe, let alone post on this image board. Phoneniggerfaggot poster are the lowest parasitic scum of this entire website, no even of the whole internet. They produce nothing of value, they only post low iq unfunny shitposts and they are low iq subhumans without a single drop of original thought inside their pea sized brains.
You should kys and never post here again, your parents would feel way better, if they knew that their disgusting failure of a son can no longer bring them any more shame.

>>51578388
So you can support bankers and Jews

>>51578396
tl;dr

>>51578388
You shouldn't

because monero is a mixer

There is more development on bitcoin. More support.

Monero has unlimited supply and will cease to exist once CBDCs exist

>>51578388
Monero is an Inflationary shitcoin

XMR has it uses but we know the max supply of bitcoin and it doesn't have a face or people behind it its a longterm store of value if

>>51578388
Both are shit.

Privacy on smart contract chains will win

Literally token not needed for privacy

>>51579197
No it isn't
>>51579498
Second layer development you mean, which is globohomo shit
>>51579566
Yeah which solves the fee market issue Bitcoin is straddled with. Retard.
>>51579550
>Unlimited supply
>Less Monero than Bitcoin until 2040
>>51579611
We know the max supply of Monero too. It's called running a node and running audited math.


Jesus the Bitcoin retards are in full force today.

>>51579667
>Token not needed for privacy
>The choice of crypto on dark net markets
Lol

>>51579016
I read it and I regret it.

why should you buy either when ethereum exists and will eventually become the top 1 with the help of Matic that's making its network cheaper, faster, and bringing the world to web3

>>51578388
Bitcoin goes a little bit harder in terms of network security and structure and that's its exchange for privacy

i buy 50/50 of both
i work in bitcoin so im tryin to diversify

>>51578388

Why indeed.

>>51579695
if you don't have the key, it mixes. if you do, you can prove your funds.
no different to any centralized or decentralized mixer, ring signatures or zero-knowledge proofs.

>>51579695
I run my own lightning node with open source applications . You are just talking out of your ass.

>>51579891
Ethereum is dying, MATIC is shit, and Avax mogs the fuck out of them dude. Eth maxis not welcome in my thread

monero isnt used for any legal purposes, and will be sanctioned and outlawed in every country in the world, only to be used by drug dealers and terrorists. nobody will be able to buy monero, and the users will slowly decrease until a few kingpins or bad actors hold almost the entire supply (if they dont already). this will begin the slow bleedout until zero. monero heads, continue living in your dream world. you will be poor forever

>>51578388
think about this too anon idk either tho

>>51579923
>Bitcoin goes a little bit harder in terms of network security
Bitcoin once lost 20% of it's hashrate because there was a power outage in western China.

>>51578388
do you want to a return on your investment and to store your wealth in an asset that cant be 51%'d and isnt run by botnets, or do you want to join a cult?

>>51578388
buy both

>>51578396
frog and wojak posters are 10x worse

>>51582821
Bitcoin isn't a store of value and because mining is so centralized geographically that it takes 1/100th the energy and effort to just target the giant mining farms and ASIC manufacturers than it is to try and brute force the network through more hashes. Bitcoin is a giant vault with a 100-ton bomb-proof vault door and walls made out of particle board.

Working smart vs. working hard.

IRS Bounty for Lightning Network in Bitcoin is unclaimed just like Monero.

In other words layer-2 in Bitcoin is as untraceable as Monero.

>>51584032
To be fair I heard receives aren't as private as sends. And chain analysis is putting nodes in this system to try to maybe track stuff.

>>51584310

If law enforcement creates nodes in Lightning Network it will make Lightning Network even more liquid and more reliable.

Already it can handle million transactions per second with IRS nodes it will beat Visa in no time.

People will only use Layer-1 like a 0% risk free fixed storage.

>>51583714
mining centralizes around energy arbitrage opportunities, but it's also quicker to move shipping crates of mining hardware than it is to unstake/restake the appropriate amount on ethereum. monero's no better, with its artificial cpu mining it's so unprofitable to mine the vast majority of the hashrate comes from botnets. if a government wanted to 51% attachkmonero in perpetuity they could, today, but it's more useful to them "working" than not.

>>51580179
I love XMR and I hold a decent chunk of it but you guys know shit like this is going to kill CEX liquidity right? That means the downside risk of XMR is near 100% if they decide its some sort of terrorist funding bullshit etc.

because its anonymous
Bitcoin is pseudonyms

>>51584411
Again, circle back to the "vault with a bomb proof door but walls made of particle board" thing. My point being that Bitcoiners claiming that Bitcoin is safe from government attack is false as those arguments rely on ignorance of geographical centralization problems or willfully ignoring the valid "work smart not hard" lined of attack that are not predicated on just throwing hash power at it.

If a few governments decided they really, really wanted to take down Bitcoin or Monero they likely could. Monero is much better geographically distributed but has much less total hashrate, and Bitcoin could be attacked by targeting the big ASIC miners and/or ASIC chip fabricators.

These things survive through regulatory capture or in Monero's case intelligence agency utility (which is the same reason TOR and i2p are not illegal).

>>51579695
>running audited math
kek

In contrast, the use of an opaque asset introduces the risk of implementation flaws that may or may not be detectable because of the underlying mathematics of commitments and more complex proving systems.

https://www.getmonero.org/2020/01/17/auditability.html

Xmr won't grow wealth and is a utility Coin

>>51578388
Check the XMRBTC chart. It's been trending up since January this year. One of the few coins gaining on BTC in this time period.

>>51584779
bitcoin is several orders of magnitude safer from an attack than monero is.
nothing is perfect but it's as safe as any other decentralized network, and significantly safer than any other cryptocurrency.

Because monero is easy to be made illegal, it's a single point of failure. Crypto privacy should have layers, not one thing that blocks the whole thing.
Fediments might be the answer

>>51578388
Bitcoin and Monero are friends, both fighting for the same reason and fundamentals, we should unite together and be unstoppable.
NO MORE BROTHER WARS YOU GUYS!

>>51582340
fud

>>51585357
Anon is just stating the obvious. This sector is simply a host for hostile and bad actors. Are you this blind not to see this?

>>51585026
>Fediments might be the answer
What's stopping them from making fediments illegal, exactly?

>>51579566
a small rate of controlled and stable inflation is better for a currency than limitless hyper-deflation.
hyper-deflation has the same negative effect on spending and indirectly devalues a currency.

People will be trading 0.000000000000000001 bitcoin just like they would trade 10000000000000000000 Zimbabwe dollars.

>>51578388
>/biz/ why should I buy Bitcoin when Monero exists?

You invest in both and use them as trading pairs, as they both go up and down independent of each other, trading them back and forth on a DEX for mad gains.

>>51579667
Smart contracts are the only way on-chain privacy can be scaled.

>>51579197
It's not. It's a privacy coin. Tornado Cash is a mixer

>>51585929
Smart contracts are the least efficient way to scale anything and have the largest attack surface.

>>51585091
>NO MORE BROTHER WARS YOU GUYS!
Eww
Fuck off riding on XMR's coat tails.

>>51579667
>Both are shit
You mean BTC is shit? You're not meant to be here idiot

>>51580227
Imagine literally making shit up. That is not how Monero works you fucking retard. Monero uses ring signature and a zk proof you mongoloid. It doesn't mix uxtos.
>>51581901
>He doesn't realize that 99% of LN is on centralized servers, and that all lightning network liquidity in the future will be on boarded through (((approved))) liquidity channels, and that his non kosher channel will be blacklisted.
HAHAHAHAHA
>>51584032
No it isn't. LN is easily attacked through any basic network attack e.g. sibil
>>51584365
Lmao are you retarded
>>51584444
Who cares if Monero isn't available on cex? We will just use dexes.
>>51584779
Hash rate isn't comparable retard. Monero using a different mining algorithm.
>>51584920
Explain to me how this is wrong?
Plus an inflation bug can literally happen to Bitcoin too you retard.
>>51584957
>Moonboy faggot

>>51580227 #
Imagine literally making shit up. That is not how Monero works you fucking retard. Monero uses ring signature and a zk proof you mongoloid. It doesn't mix uxtos.
>>51581901 #
>He doesn't realize that 99% of LN is on centralized servers, and that all lightning network liquidity in the future will be on boarded through (((approved))) liquidity channels, and that his non kosher channel will be blacklisted.
HAHAHAHAHA
>>51584032 #
No it isn't. LN is easily attacked through any basic network attack e.g. sibil
>>51584365 #
Lmao are you retarded
>>51584444 #
Who cares if Monero isn't available on cex? We will just use dexes.
>>51584779 #
Hash rate isn't comparable retard. Monero using a different mining algorithm.
>>51584920 #
Explain to me how this is wrong?
Plus an inflation bug can literally happen to Bitcoin too you retard

>>51580227
Imagine literally making shit up. That is not how Monero works you fucking retard. Monero uses ring signature and a zk proof you mongoloid. It doesn't mix uxtos.
>>51581901
>He doesn't realize that 99% of LN is on centralized servers, and that all lightning network liquidity in the future will be on boarded through (((approved))) liquidity channels, and that his non kosher channel will be blacklisted.
HAHAHAHAHA
>>51584032
No it isn't. LN is easily attacked through any basic network attack e.g. sibil
>>51584365
Lmao are you retarded
>>51584444
Who cares if Monero isn't available on cex? We will just use dexes.
>>51584779
Hash rate isn't comparable retard. Monero using a different mining algorithm.
>>51584920
Explain to me how this is wrong?
Plus an inflation bug can literally happen to Bitcoin too you retard

>>51587041
>Hash rate isn't comparable retard
Hashes per dollar still allows you to compare roughly as it helps even out the discrepancies. Even on that basis yes Bitcoin far outstrips Monero on current security budget.

The big weaknesses ASICs have are geographic centralization and chip fabrication centralization (as unlike Monero which uses consumer-grade, retail CPUs, Bitcoin uses custom order shit all from a small cabal of manufacturers).

>>51579016

>>51579667
>smart contracts
ok anon

>>51587041
You mean leave me off the whitelist. Since if my channel got blacklisted I would just open a new one. If that were to happen I would just switch to liquid network. That's the great thing about layer-2s. Doesn't effect the underlying project.

>>51587177
>Hashes per dollar still allows you to compare roughly as it helps even out the discrepancies.
Asic and cpu hash rates are completely different. This statement makes no sense. We should expect CPUs to have a lower hash rate. The best Monero miners get 10 MH. The best Bitcoin Miners get in the 100s of THs, but those same Bitcoin miners would be unable to mine Random x.
And you are correct that centralization is a problem for Asics, but I'd also add that mining cartels will eventually cuck for OFAC compliance and other government regs.

>>51587400
>Switch to liquid
Kek. Yeah switching to the centralized block stream shitware. You really proved me wrong there. They will be spying on you and they will censor bad apples and will add fees over time to comply with regulations. Second layer solutions unless completely decentralized are garbage.

>>51579985
>i buy 50/50 of both
>i work in bitcoin so im tryin to diversify

portfolio diversification is crucial for better risk management, my holdings are Ethereum, ada, OGN, Enjin and a little bit of Chz, then i bought some amount of Ride due to the 25% staking reward on maiar

>>51587475
>This statement makes no sense.
It's how you compare the compare the "security budget" of the two chains by seeing how much money is getting thrown at them, instead of just looking at raw total amounts of hashes. For example Monero could hypothetically achieve the same "real" security level as Bitcoin but at 1/10 the total hash number because Monero's mining algorithm costs 10x more hashes-per-dollar in electricity.

>>51587569
i said diversify, not gamble on shitcoins

>>51578388
Why would you buy fag trash XMR when a superior alternative in scale exist? $SCRT, part of Cosmos.

>>51587560
Anyone can run a liquid node and peg in bitcoin. Liquid even has privacy

IT'S GOING TO ZERO!

>>51587590
Jesus Christ you literally did not understand a single thing I said. ASIC miners which are far cheaper than the top Monero miners still mine much much much higher hash rates in asic algorithms. No wonder you mouth breathers hold Bitcoin.
>>51587865
Lol imagine trusting block stream. You get what you deserve.

>>51578396
Monero will outperform Bitcoin

>>51585026
Crypto privacy should have layers and it should be available to every digital asset, I like the way Railgun privacy system is built, multi-chain composable, support private defi, private NFT minting and aution, all on chain without any bridge.

BTC maxis give me hope that there will always be cheap labor and sex work. Too many reatrds are able to live brain free this days.

XMR is king

>>51590489
Crypto privacy should be on the baselayer. Anything else is cope.

>>51591214
Crypto privacy is better structure on multiple chain, this will harness the potential of the privacy system, I like Railgun privacy system, I practically do all my defi stuff privately on Ethereum, BSC and Polygon

>>51591945
No it isn't you pajeet.
Monero has one use which is digital cash. Anything else is pajeet ponzi vaporware.

>>51578388
A good day for XMR chads to flaunt the solidity of their token, ama just keep holding my stack so as not to miss out but then putting some good funds into Lrc, RIDE and NGM.

>>51584444
>I love XMR and I hold a decent chunk of it but you guys know shit like this is going to kill CEX liquidity right?

Relying on CEXs defeats the purpose of using a privacy coin.

>That means the downside risk of XMR is near 100% if they decide its some sort of terrorist funding bullshit etc.

Multiple Monerocentric DEXs are already on the horizon so we're not worried lol.

>>51594893
Know this that every project has their cons and pros. So with other privacy solutions Why am I saying all this as if I care? Fuck.

Let me ask, which privacy solution do you think is better than monero in all ramifications or just the tech?

>>51595165

Define "better". Monero is the most *reliable* privacy solution because it is the oldest and most battle-tested, is self-contained on Layer 1, has the largest number of users, doesn't rely on experimental moon math and also shields sender IP addresses.

>>51593022
>putting some good funds into Lrc, RIDE and NGM.


Are you going all in? The bear market is just starting. At this point, DCA works fine, so with staking, I do most of my staking on Binance and Freeway. The latter has a very intuitive metric and also incentivizes users for simple tasks.

>>51595320
Many claims are centered on the fact that, in terms of tech, it is backward but, in terms of market cap and usability, it remains at the forefront and others are most likely to outperform it. How do you justify the contraries?

>>51595477
>Many claims are centered on the fact that, in terms of tech, it is backward

lol "claims". Monero upgrades constantly, we actually just updated Bulletproofs to BP+.

There is nothing "backward" about Monero's tech, it is established tech that has proven itself reliable over many years of adversarial battle-testing, as opposed to the more exotic ZKP variants that still come with disclaimers.


>outperform it.

They have to win the darknet over first, which is the de facto kingmaker when it comes to privacy tech.


>How do you justify the contraries?

Salty bagholders with big dreams.

>>51579891
I'm just waiting on the AllianceDEX to go live on the MATIC network. ETH price fucking sucked after the merge

>>51588015
Lol imagine people will wait a couple minutes at a register to pay for their groceries

>>51595868
Base reply: Kek.
But another thing is that this is token-gated and also supports bridging. Don't you think this is a setback compared to others?

>>51596854
>What is 0-conf

>>51578388
because monero is pointless. you can't invent absolute digital scarcity twice.

>>51597000
pure idiocy

>>51578388

Neither are ISO20022 compliant. Look into ISO20022 and QFS and get ISO20022 compliant (commodities backed) cryptos.

>>51596894
>But another thing is that this is token-gated and also supports bridging. Don't you think this is a setback compared to others?

Smart contracts? They break TX uniformity and increase the attack surface, which weakens privacy guarantees. The most secure and reliable privacy coin is a one-trick pony.

>>51597367
>because monero is pointless. you can't invent absolute digital scarcity twice.

Retarded maxipad narrative is retarded, Monero is already taking over Bitcoin's usecase in OPSEC-critical markets.

>>51597737
best privacy is when you don't even broadcast your transactions and record them forever for the whole world to see and examine indefinitely.

>>51597794
nobody cares. there is only 21 million bitcoin and infinite number of shitcoins. monero is priced accordingly.

>>51597828
>best privacy is when you don't even broadcast your transactions and record them forever for the whole world to see and examine indefinitely.

lol Lightning Network? Literally zero interest for it where it should be making waves: darknet OPSEC circles. Download the Tor browser and go have a look for yourself, its all about Monero now.


>nobody cares. there is only 21 million bitcoin and infinite number of shitcoins. monero is priced accordingly.

Real-world markets where messing up means doing time or getting raped by the IRS care. Monero has only just begun to establish itself as a viable BTC alternative now that the Monero-only DNM standard is emerging.

Stay tuned, the XMR General is keeping tabs on the abandonment of BTC in near-real time.

>>51598108
>its all about Monero now
won't last. bitcoin has superior privacy solutions developed blind signatures allow for some crazy shit. there will be absolutely no onchain trace. monero opsec is garbage tier.

>>51598108
>Monero-only DNM standard is emerging
that's retarded monero will never be as private as cash and bitcoin is already more private than cash. those retards will learn the hard way.

>>51598515
>won't last. bitcoin has superior privacy solutions developed blind signatures allow for some crazy shit. there will be absolutely no onchain trace. monero opsec is garbage tier.

lololololol see, only deluded Bitfags actually believe that a retrofitted L2 privacy solution can be as secure and reliable as a dedicated ground-up L1 solution.

Tho you should totally go inform the privacy gurus that hang out on Dread (d/OpSec and d/DarknetMarkets) ALL about "muh blind signatures/submarine swaps/fedimints/CoinJoin/CoinSwap/etc", they simply don't seem interested in anything Bitcoin-related anymore!

>>51597737
Looking at the hack this year, this has been common with projects that support bridging. Well, I have a contrary opinion about this anyway.

>>51598578
>that's retarded monero will never be as private as cash and bitcoin is already more private than cash. those retards will learn the hard way.

I'm actually impressed!

>>51585542
because you can't make all of them illegal. if a fedimint in the US is blocked, there should be thousands others elsewhere you can use as mixers. They could probably block wallets that interacted with fedimints but they can't shutdown fedimints altogether so their situation is a bit better than Tornado Cash.
But if you want to go that far, you could ask what's stopping "them" from making Bitcoin illegal.

>>51597455
????

>>51597367
Except you very much can as long as there is demand.

>>51578388
monerofags are absolute midwits. they think bitcoin didn't already thought about every fake issue they come up with. they think everyone will use monero, except they're the extreme schizo minority, asic mining, no cap, reliance on cryptography to audit the supply, and more, monero is useful but it has zero value, it's just a tool, they want the world to turn into worldwide communist dystopia so they can have a use case, which will never happen since bitcoin will make that impossible. the smartest monerofags are those that don't care about the price. others (a lot in this thread) are literal gorillas for real

>>51584951
high iq

>>51599199
>monero is useful but it has zero value,

kek screencapped for posterity

>>51578388
checked.
>>51578396
bitcoin cope: the post

>>51578388
Devs print and dump it

>>51600230
>Devs print and dump it

The absolute state of Monero FUD in 2022

>>51599096
but there isn't because everyone know you are not actually scarce just one of the billion copycats. also literal infinite supply cause tail emission lol.

>>51598808
your transaction will never hit l1. chaumian ecash interconnected via lightning offers billion times better privacy than the moneroshit network.
and the best part this actually scales.

>>51601248
>your transaction will never hit l1. chaumian ecash interconnected via lightning offers billion times better privacy than the moneroshit network.

Cool, go convince the darknet of this indisputable fact and report back!

i'm gonna explain something to these cucks now.

the way ecash works is you create a bunch of virtual banknotes they all have a unique serial number so to speak a denomination and other details. so then you encrypt them thousands of them. and then you send it to the mint. and the mint will randomly select a few (the number of notes you want to get issued) and ask you to reveal the rest (this is so they know you are not making them blind sign bullshit).

so then they sign the notes you did not reveal. but they don't know what serial number they have. only you do. then you can decrypt the notes in a way that they still remain signed by the mint. so now they are signed certificates.

these notes can be handed back to the mint and the mint can in return give you onchain of lightning bitcoin or can issue new notes to someone in return (this is a transaction within the mint). or you can even move to a different mint via lightning. with absolutely no onchain trace. nobody knows who you are how many notes you have. nothing.

it's literally more private than cash. it's as private as cash that only exists until you have it and only you know the serial number of.

>>51601468
>go convince the darknet of this indisputable fact and report back!
they will probably lag behind a few years, i don't blame them not wanting to be the first to test it out. but monero is finished. like game over.

>>51578388
I will rather buy QANX
>Both BTC and Monero are not quantum resistant

>>51601520
>they will probably lag behind a few years, i don't blame them not wanting to be the first to test it out. but monero is finished. like game over.

lol what part of "not interested" is confusing to you?

L2 privacy solutions have *specifically* been dismissed as inadequate by darknet OPSEC gurus, you can go ask them yourself and get their expert opinion.

The clueless midwits in the BTC echo chamber are feeding you weapons-grade copium, as you'll discover if you do the needful.

>>51601501
We know how chaumian cash works. It's custodial. At that point why use bitcoin at all? Just have chaumian cash backed by something useful like the US dollar or gold.

>>51591214
Building a strong base layer with real privacy and real scaling approaches is the big deal. One of the reasons I prefer Railgun privacy tech. It scales at the base layer.

>>51601924
Not so many Quantum resistant blockchains RN, yet the threat keeps getting stronger

>>51578388
>/biz/ why should I buy Bitcoin when Monero exists?
to not be a faggot who uses token not needed.
no altcoins are needed in future - at most some sidechains etc, connected with Bitcoin as the currency.

>>51584951
based.
at least one poster know his shit
so many anons fall for the altcoin meme, not researching Bitcoin instead

>>51603083
>to not be a faggot who uses token not needed.

lol you literally can't use anything else on Monero-only markets.

>>51602779
what dnm is not custodial?

>>51578388
So you can make sure your transaction actually took place

>>51601967
>L2 privacy solutions have *specifically* been dismissed as inadequate by darknet OPSEC gurus
they are retarded then. literally leaving an onchain trail forever is the biggest risk you can undertake. monero ring signatures provide only a very small anon set which degrades over time as chainanal can connect more and more outputs. you have to be braindead to prefer that.

>>51578388
If you tried to pay me in Bitcoin, I'd tell you to fuck off as I don't want to be anywhere near Bitcoin. I'll accept Monero anytime, it's fungible and the darknet markets are the proof of its use-case as electronic cash. If you want to invest or trade, then Bitcoin is where you should be.

>>51602779
>At that point why use bitcoin at all? Just have chaumian cash backed by something useful like the US dollar or gold.
uhm hello it's like a thousand times less useful without the lightning network interconnecting mints and making traversing them a fully seamless experience.

>>51603635
>they are retarded then. literally leaving an onchain trail forever is the biggest risk you can undertake. monero ring signatures provide only a very small anon set which degrades over time as chainanal can connect more and more outputs. you have to be braindead to prefer that.

lol yes, the experienced sysadmins with literally their freedom on the line are all wrong while an army of bagholders hoping to get another pump know exactly what they're talking about.

I suggest you take a crash course in network security before confidently claiming to understand the intricacies and challenges of protecting sensitive systems operating under adversarial conditions.

>>51578388
cause XMR is inflationary you fucking cuck.

>>51603786
>cause XMR is inflationary you fucking cuck.

lol XMR inflates at half the rate of gold while coins are constantly being lost as well.

>>51603809
nice chart you fucking homo.

>>51603831

lol like clockwork

>>51603778
>the experienced sysadmins with literally their freedom on the line are all wrong
they are fucking druggie idiots who thought onchain bitcoin is fine a few years ago.

>>51601501
I don't even know what you mean by "ecash". "ecash" was some system in the 80s that wikipedia talks about, and ecash is a fork of bch that used to be called bcha or bitcoin abc which is a version of the bitcoin blockchain that is validated by avax for some reason and has a dev tax.

So what the fuck are YOU talking about, and where can I buy 100 dollars of ecash or 100 dollars of ecashified bitcoin. Like where is this shit now. You talk like there's some mint, why wouldn't the government shut down the mint or stop the drugdealers or nazis from using it, etc. How is this supposed to work exactly if it is centralized, a centralized for profit money laundering service? Link me to some proof to the contrary good sir.

>>51603850
you're fucking deflecting you faggot. XMR performed like shit the past two bull runs while you have horse shit like BNB killing it. Money talks you delusional faggot.

>>51603872
>they are fucking druggie idiots who thought onchain bitcoin is fine a few years ago.

Bitcoin WAS fine until chain analysis was perfected and BTC users started ending up in prison.

>>51603896
>XMR performed like shit the past two bull runs while you have horse shit like BNB killing it.

Well yeah, literal dog memes have outperformed Monero pricewise, that's how irrational the market currently is.

But historically, sanity always returns eventually to reward the worthy.

>>51578388
you shouldn't buy either of them
you should purchase things with it
if you want an unregistered security you should go to cvxCRV or something from balancer (aura I think)
currencies are not for monetary gain, unregistered securities are

>>51603903
>BTC users started ending up in prison.
correction:
WASABI users started ending up in prison
120+ arrests and counting up

>>51603896
Monero literally outperformed Bitcoin in the 2017 bullrun you retard and it only performed slightly worse than Bitcoin in the 21 bull run.
Monero has also outperformed the entire market since the start of the bear market.
You number go up retards are insufferable.

>>51604682
Post a monero btc graph over the last 5 years

>>51604701
You mean the same chart which shows that Monero outperformed Bitcoin in 2016/17, underperformed in 2018/2019, and has since oscillated since 2020? Fun fact, but the majority of people who have bought and held Monero have only been in the past few years if you go buy transaction usage, but you retards think literally everybody bought the absolute top and haven't been dcaing over the past few years. I remember buying at 0.0035 and hearing how Monero was going to 0. We will be at 0.008 soon and buy will only continue climbing.
Funny how Bitcoin is the apparent safe haven in a bear market when Monero has out performed it. Continue ignoring that fact though you retard.

>>51604765
And it will only continue climbing*

>>51604765
Monero is down 50% against btc over the last 5 years. It simply bleeds against bitcoin

>>51578388
Just buy both.

>>51604801
>Literally bleeds against Bitcoin
>Literally outperformed in 2016/2017
>Literally performed at about the same level as Bitcoin(very slightly worse) in the 2021 bull run
>Literally outperforming in the current bear market

Learn to fucking read lmao

>>51604073
>cvxCRV
What is it about any thread mentioning Monero that causes people to come in and pump the stupidest most delusional and confusing shit? Do you think people who want privacy will simply assume that anything confusing and sketchy is the way to go?

>>51604801
>It simply bleeds against bitcoin
It's been outperforming Bitcoin for a year now. It's also up for early adopters until 2017. The only people who are down in BTC are people sandwiched in the middle between early adopters and people buying within the last year.

This is the same shit with people saying ETH bleeds against Bitcoin even though (like Monero) it's only the "sandwich" buyers in the middle who are down.

>>51604845
>>51604801
>>51604765
>2017
Monero was basically a shitcoin before 2017. No RandomX, no bulletproofs, etc.
Hell, 2016 was only three years after the cryptonote whitepaper.

>>51603612
2-of-2 down payments, 2-of-3 escrow, etc like bisq

>>51603083
CopeJoin is fundamentally broken to sybil attacks because it is permissive. You need something non-permissive and default like zkSTARKs or ring signatures. Also how the fuck are bitcoiners gonna implement sidechains when they can barely increase the fucking block size to sane limit.

Neither LN nor CJ has usable privacy.

>>51605060
>Monero was basically a shitcoin before 2017. No RandomX, no bulletproofs, etc.
I agree. Monero in 2016 was complete shit compared to today but it had an active and passionate (but small) community which is why there was smart money looking at it. The point I am making is that there are always winners and losers in investing if we are looking at gains (or relativity vs Bitcoin), but the number go up narrative doesn't actually work against Monero if you look at the 2021 bull run or the current bear market.
The big losers from a DCA perspective were the ones buying in the later half of 2017 through 2019. But dcaing since 2020 has essentially equaled Bitcoin, and that's also with the benefit of having all of the funds safe from chain analysis.

As long as youre buying monero with kyc it doesnt have any more privacy than btc

>>51605590
Yeah you do if you remove it off of an exchange

>>51605590
1)- Buy it with KYC
2)- Transfer it to your wallet
3)- Ok now it's private

>>51579016
based

>>51578388
There's nothing wrong in buying both biz fag, both can be exchanged for goods, services and other currencies, except that Monero is secretive, and untraceable.
desu, this is one of the reasons i use the sylo messaging app to chat, coz it's end-to-end encrypted, and does not leak out users data like other big communication coy.

>>51599199
>monero is useful but it has zero value
what the fuck am i reading

>>51602779
based and GNU-pilled but this will not be used anytime soon

>>51609432

/biz/ logic: the more useless something is the more valuable it becomes and vice versa.

>>51603050
QANplatform and a few other L1s are quantum resistant

>>51585862
good idea if you can execute it, where can you trade monero on a dex? kwenta?

>>51609432
>>51609443
it has basically zero value compared to bitcoin.
usefulness alone doesn't make it valuable, if it's easy to have...

>>51610888
>it has basically zero value compared to bitcoin.
>usefulness alone doesn't make it valuable, if it's easy to have...

Have you ever considered joining your country's Olympic mental gymnastics team?

>>51610970
>21 posts by this id
you're an hyperactive morron that talks too much

>>51610993

Yes.

>>51610888
>zero value
>is useful as a tool
hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

>>51609440
GNU Taler is actually a really great system that banks should have been using pretty much immediately. If that's what that "ecash" guy was talking about, I'd never have guessed.

GNU Taler is not a cryptocurrency, it's a method that any bank or something even vaguely similar to a bank could use. The design of it, however, is so alien to what is being discussed in a thread or forum like this that I don't know why it gets brought up.

With this system you can pay anonymously, but you cannot receive anonymously. This is to prevent fraud of all types (including tax fraud). It means it is wholly unsuitable to buying illegal things (drugs etc.), because whilst the buyer is presumably protected from deanonymization, the seller is not.

https://taler.net/en/index.html

If you go read about it some, you'll see that it's not a speculative asset (which is why you never see it discussed on /biz) and is ALSO not a method of getting paid anonymously.

In short, it's there as a more leftish proposal of CBDCs, one where the buyers of things retain more of their privacy than under the more likely central bank systems, which will hand a lot of information and power to sellers, the result of an older critique of capitalist systems when it was feared that the middle class would use this power to oppress people for buying dildos or whatever. It's much better than what the governments of the world will actually want to give us, and it's better than what we have now, but it doesn't compete with something like Monero at all. It's a tech to do stuff that exists but slightly better.

>>51611084
programming libraries are useful and are worth nothing because it's just a tool and nothing more
many such cases
by your logic all github repo shall be worth money, but it's worth literally zero because anyone can copy or use it freely
you're all big coping morrons

>>51611154
Explain to me how programming tools have scarcity.

>>51611154
Programming libraries have incredible value, and the people who write them get paid, and the companies that release them- even the ones that release them freely- get great value out of that action.

But Monero is a blockchain that is really hard to trace (making it have a use) with a distributed network that is resistant to some types of attacks (again, making it have a use), and you use this to pass a digitally scarce virtual currency around. Since the currency is scarce, there's the possibility that people will hoard it, and it makes it subject to market pressure. Certainly if all you care about is getting paid, it doesn't matter whether Monero is 10 dollars or 10 thousand dollars. But the fact is, most of the crypto market is based on this speculation, and as a result, Monero definitely has value.

>>51611154
>morrons

Also, tell us what coins you think have actual value.

>>51611142
yes i know about taler but banks won't use it
why do you think banks (and governments) would accept allowing people to pay anonymously?
the problem with taler is that it relies on banks adopting it

>>51578388
If you don't buy Monero your a faggot

>>51578388
buying monero today is like buying btc in 2015: uncertain future, but zealous users and a clear-use-case. and almost no institutions holding.
>Name one good reason we all shouldn't buy and withdraw 10 XMR and abandon SurveillanceCoin and force them to capitulate into buying our bags -- AGAIN.

>>51603786
>I'm a dumb nigger who is unable to do math!

>>51578388
Why should I buy either when I have ETH, QNT, ALBT that offers good products?

>>51596789
The beauty of AllianceDex is that it helps mitigate impermanent losses.

>>51579985
Diversification is the spice of life. I would extend my tentacles to MilestoneBased just to pickup new startups.

>>51612327
The argument for bitcoin is that, out of all the features of something you can clone forever, the one thing you can't clone is being there first. This is a true and good argument, but maxis argue that it is the only argument.

There's another argument that bitcoin is big, so it will stay big forever. This is probably not true, but it's probably also not completely false.

The "bigness" argument also applies in part to ETH.

The "we were here first" argument to a smaller extent applies to Monero ("the first privacy coin to actually offer privacy") and even things like litecoin and ethereum ("we made our copies of bitcoin pretty early, and in eth's case, became the most notable early coin for smart contracts and tokens and shit").

If you like Ethereum I'm not sure why you would also like QNT and ALBT as the don't really offer anything that ETH absolutely cannot, but I'm also not a big expert on them. Why wouldn't BNB make that list? Why wouldn't SOL?

Anyway, I think a lot of which hype you buy into depends a lot on what you've seen and what is in your head about how the world is. If you've seen grand markets spinning numbers- which absolutely is real- then the idea of making that much better with trustless digitization will be appealing, and you will go in the direction of defi, a beautiful free world of efficiency and boundless growth. If you view our current liberty as an anomaly that no one will fight to preserve, a creeping totalitarian state that wears many masks but always grows, then you will glide towards something like Monero, which will be very expensive and difficult for such a beast to fight- at least not without its mask slipping further.

marketcap

XMR can go x100 of its current marketcap and will still have a lower marketcap than bitcoin market cap of today.
And days of making good money from BTC is over If you bought bitcoin around 50k, and say wait for 250k. That will make BTC total cap to be half of entire gold market cap. I think even 250k is too optimistic but suppose BTC fell to 10k and somehow you sold it at 250k, that would be 25x increase.
compare it to monero, if monero jumped 25x it would be sold around 3600$ and its marketcap would be 64725m about 1/5th of the BTC marketcap of TODAY.

The only reason to hold bitcoin in my opinion is that you believe it will be so big that it will be bigger than gold today. I find that quite unlikely

>>51610993
Monero spergs are all like this. I hold both coins, but instead of getting along with Bitcoiners, focusing on bigger threats like PoS, Monero maxis spend all day shitting on Bitcoin to no avail.

>>51613352
There was a story I read once where the author did the thing where humans go to the stars and find a bunch of other races, and they end up in alliances and skirmishing over territory and stuff. What was interesting about it was that the alliances were mostly driven, not by how similar the cultures were, or how similar the races were in other ways, but by what resources everyone needed. So the alliance humans ended up in didn't have any other oxygen breathers, those were in other alliances, and each alliance had at most two races that lived in gas giants, or something. I don't know exactly how accurate that would be, but it was absolutely interesting and I see it in crypto a lot, because the thing that is almost like you is competing for the same resources. The only exceptions are when something explicitly adopts an inferior position- litecoin doesn't get nearly the hate from bitcoin as bitcoin cash does, monero people all like wownero and want it added to cake wallet, but hate zcash and shit talked the devs hard when they wanted to add it to the "monero.com wallet".

The reason that it's hostile is that bitcoin and monero both offer the same root product, but bitcoin offers "we were here first and our scarcity is not the copy, also we've been a solvent network the entire time and didn't have a rocky start", and monero offers "our privacy is the only meaningful way to transact privately ever implemented and arguably also the only one ever conceived because the other competitors either had a trusted ritual that could have spawned a trillion invisible tokens, or rely on math that is brand new and not at all proven".

>>51603240
>lol you literally can't use anything else on the noob (monero-only) markets.
their problem
better markets will replace'em

>>51613904
Dude, the only reason there are monero-only markets is because the bitcoin markets all got arrested and thrown in prison forever. No one is coming to pander to your favorite coin at the cost of being raped in prison forever.

>>51613904

Unlikely, since Bitcoin is now considered obsolete while "Monero-only" is being pushed as the new standard by the DNM Bible, the darknet's supreme authority for all things OPSEC.

>>51613904
These are the better markets.

The reality is that if you use bitcoin (copejoin, copeswap, lightning, whatever) are going to get caught immediately and assraped in jail like ullbricht's successors. There is a reason why there are no bitcoin markets left, it's because they all got stomped. It is delusional to expect any privacy from bitcoin.

>>51614137
>There is a reason why there are no bitcoin markets left

There are still DN markets accepting Bitcoin but those are rapidly dying out or swapping to Monero-only, these days most new markets are Monero-only.

>>51578388
other than brand name recognition and some exchange support there's not really a good reason to use bitcoin

>>51584951
https://sethforprivacy.com/posts/dispelling-monero-fud/

>>51615583
Sending micropayments. Boostagrams on podcssting 2.0. Split payments. Set up your own nfc card for tap to pay. You can make programs in real programming languages that utilize btc on the lightning network. Eth has trading shitcoins, selling jpegs. Loans seem ok but never tried it.

>>51614137
>It is delusional to expect any privacy from bitcoin.
Anonymous trading of Bitcoin is actually possible with the cross-chain functionality of on-chain privacy Railgun and Ren protocol are putting in place.

>>51612474
>the first privacy coin to actually offer privacy
Being the first doesn't correlate with being the best option for privacy.

>If you like Ethereum
In that case, is it right to have a bias towards privacy solutions built on Ethereum mainnet

>>51618492
>>51618533
Good morning ser!

>>51586728
No one is buying your bags faggot

seeth and cope

>>51609432
Explain because that makes no sense. If privacy is indeed needed for personal rights, how then is worthless

>>51618533
Regardless of the chain, privacy matters. Although, it is a risk to interact with any privacy system that is just emerging or with untested products.

>>51616490
>https://sethforprivacy.com/posts/dispelling-monero-fud/
>but this process does rely on the soundness of the monerod software implementation
nothing new under the sun. the article I quoted is literally linked as "excellent" underneath.

Bitcoin is Monero Testnet. When everyone switches to XMR, it will be the main narrative.
You can send XMR to pay for a pizza, and keep your entire account private. With Bitcoin your bank account history and balance is literally public.

Imagine how retarded that is. and the only justification is wrongly that we can't do differently technically. Fact is, Satoshi was trying to get to Monero.

>>51620324
in defense of bitcoin
what is good and efficient and private and better does not mean it will be more valuable
compare litecoin to btc or digibyte to btc, both are far more superior far more efficient but they are worth shit.

just because monero is better doesn't mean that it will worth more

>>51620360
>compare litecoin to btc or digibyte to btc, both are far more superior far more efficient but they are worth shit.
They aren't more valuable whatsoever as they don't do anything unique. It's the same problem with the dozens of copy + paste ETH-killer coins that just reduce block times and increase gas limits to infinity and pretend they've solved some problem. Cryptocurrencies fundamentally only have value as social networks and so the holy grail is achieving a Schelling point as the "one true coin" within your sphere, not
>uhh I increased the block size and have a slightly tweaked mining/staking algorithm

This explains why Bitcoin and ETH hold up relatively well against their older clones as their network effect tends to aggregate people interested in those spaces towards a single coin, and (in general) the other coins in that same sphere tend to bleed against it. Monero's strength over the last few years have been in carving out it's own unique sphere of the "privacy coin" space which has manifested in it's rapid takeover of darknet markets away from Bitcoin. This is obviously conjecture, but I believe Monero has now achieved it's own independent gravitational system so to speak so that it's not longer just going to be an orbiter (bleeder) around Bitcoin, but can show relatively independent price movements (insofar as any coin can given macro trends), and this is especially important as Monero has achieved a Schelling point within it's own space as it has a higher market cap than every single other "privacy coin" combined (and infinitely more usage). That isn't any form of price prediction, rather just pointing out that (for better or worse) Monero stands in it's own space now and I don't think it's deterministically locked into bleeding like the vast majority of redundant BTC clones are (for example Monero is getting close to breaking it's 2021 XMR/BTC high despite the fact we're in a bear market, which is unheard of).

>>51620513
good post anon enjoyed reading it
any other crypto you are interested in besides btc/xmr/eth?

>>51620553
>any other crypto you are interested in besides btc/xmr/eth?
Not really, outside of random gambling. I'm interested in DEXes but as far as the ones with tokens go they're mostly all badly centralized (admin keys, corporations, etc.), have massive pre-mines, have poor developers, or bend the knee to regulators which defeats the purpose, and none of them have any traction. I'm keeping an eye on the Serai dex people as they've already stated that Monero is a guaranteed trading option, but they're so early in development I can't say anything about them one way or the other. Could wind up being a shitshow like most of the others have become. Bisq is cool but no real way to make profit off it's usage (which is ironically probably a lot healthier for a dex).

>>51620662
I avoid ETH as I think it is centralized too. Very funny when you look at decentralized coins there is only few, btc, monero, then some minor changers like litecoin, bitcoincash, and then some meme coins like ravencoin dogecoin

I started to think in a decade or so most centralized coins will be gone. But this is just a hunch not based on any logical reasoning.

>>51618492
Interesting. Never knew that the option to maintain a private wallet for BTC exists.

>>51620324
>You can send XMR to pay for a pizza, and keep your entire account private. With Bitcoin your bank account history and balance is literally public.
That's the good part of it. The fact that you can stay anonymous, yet make transactions and instant cross-border deals is a big advantage. It's indeed a good thing that privacy is being scaled across multiple chains. Matter of time before the demand for privacy skyrockets.

>>51578388
Why when FreedomCoin exists.

>>51578388
>/biz/ why should I buy Bitcoin when Monero exists?
why would anyone buy moNEGRO when Bitcoin exists?
>inb4 huuuur I do not know about CoinJoin, Wasabi, I can't achieve privacy on Bitcoin
ok noob

>>51622514
>why would anyone buy moNEGRO when Bitcoin exists?
You tell me. The dark net is a free market, and they are using Monero instead despite Bitcoin's massive network effect advantage. Why would this be the case?

>>51622617
>You tell me. The dark net is a free market, and they are using Monero instead despite Bitcoin's massive network effect advantage. Why would this be the case?
marketing.

moNEGRO is whoring out to brainlets with some thot anime
Weebs and druggies dig that shit, reading is hard. You also didn't read how this crypto works or you wouldn't be asking, so there.

>>51622771

You guys totally need to launch a counter-marketing campaign to win back the darknet.

>>51624416
>You guys totally need to launch a counter-marketing campaign to win back the darknet.
what for tho?
noobs will noob

>>51624619
>noobs will noob
Agreed. The low hanging fruit will continue using Bitcoin.

>>51625111
the what now?
Bitcoin is the more advanced solution.
Monero is the poor one but was promoting privacy and made them more available in software early on.

The future doesn't need Monero at all.