/biz/ - Business & Finance

>Why can't weeee be frens?!

Maxis are so cringe, still stuck in 2008 while the world keeps moving. Technological boomers.

>>51460555
Wasted get on a retard twitter nobody

>>51460555
no cryptofaggot understands money: gold is not valuable because it is hard to extract, it's valuable because it's USEFUL and is money because it's USEFUL and FUNGIBLE, the same way that salt was money in Roman times: not because it was hugely valuable, but because it had SOME value from its USEFULNESS and was FUNGIBLE by virtue of being salt (identical to other salt and easily dividable)

>>51460626
>retard twitter nobody
Newfaggot cancerous cunt lurk moar!

>>51460555
That is goddamn retarded. You can actually look up the definition of money, and you can find several, but not one has "proof of work" in it.

Lol maxis copied the trump laser eye meme. Faggots can’t meme

>>51460734
Gold has to mined out of the earth. That’s the work you utter retard

>>51460882
Retards will never understand. Proof for gold is the fucking fact that you have it.

>>51460882
You can physically touch gold, you can use gold in circuitry, in jewelry. You can't do the same with numbers.

>>51460555
That's not creg

>>51460555
What he doesn't grasp is that the REAL currency of the future requires Proof of USEFUL Work. Duh.

>>51460855
This
>>51460946
And this

Adam Back is a criminal and a faggot

>>51460882
You can work for gold, or you can steal it or find it on the ground. It is used for money in some places, but money isn't always gold.

Im a bitcoin maximalist but i understand that a solid 95% of people in crypto dont give a fuck about any of this shit. We're just gona have to wait until people learn their lesson with PoS, it could take another decade

>>51460621
Ethereum just ruined its entire ecosystem because the liberals cried hard enough. It will NEVER recover.

>>51460628
So pretty much you’re saying to buy icp since it’s digital oil

>>51460628
Your trying to explain financial basics to idiots who think numbers on a screen hold tangible value. They’re more concerned about getting virtually wealthy so they can share screenshots of their bags on social media. Also the same crowd who believes NFT’s are swell. We’re literally watching the boomer cycle repeat. Zoomers are literally boomers. Just more stupid than selfish.

>>51461067
read the whitepaper monkey

>>51460555
Gold isn't hard money because it isn't monetized anymore. It's an industrial good.

>>51460628

You’re retarded; Native Americans in the canyon lands used sea shells as currency. Why? Because they were impossible to counterfeit, scarce (had to be transported from the ocean thousands of miles away) and easy to transport. Bitcoin is valuable because it’s scarce (has to be mined), impossible to counterfeit and easy to transfer (peer to peer).

>>51460628
Romans used gold idiot. They all did. The ones that didn't had their country/empire eviscerated by inflation due to the ease of the ability to rampantly increase the money supply like we are seeing now or by foreigners who easily produced/purchased their money (like the fucking Africans using glass beads) as it didn't have value anywhere else. Gold rose to this spot because it was hard as fuck to mine and refine into coinage. This is why you don't see copper, iron or tin, things that are many times more useful than gold in production, used as money.

>>51460734
PoW is what solved byzantines general problem one of the key components that made Bitcoin a truly decentralized ledger

>>51460628
Gold was hard money because it was hard to make/find idiot not because it was useful. There are alot of useful metals but why do you think that gold was the most valueable?
The answer is because it was the most scarce and had the highest salability through time.
You can use anything as a medium of exchange but using something that is consumed like your salt example means it doesnt have salability through time.
It seems you are equally retarded as the cryptofags that dont understand money
and are trying to get rich off shitcoins.

>>51460555
checked.

ethereum is a decentralized smart contract execution device
nobody considers it "hard money"

>>51460934
That’s right, so hand over the useless login information to your useless checking account.

>>51460555
blockstream has done nothing for btc.

>>51460972
No anon. Actually you want the work to deliberately be wasteful. If the work is useful then the value of token generated has to compete with the value of the work done, and the incentives get out of whack. The work should be wasteful as an ideal.

>>51461981
>If the work is useful then the value of token generated has to compete with the value of the work done
Why is that a bad thing?

>>51460555
"Digital gold" is a meme, play, pun, scheme, trope, lie, impractical, misnomer

Well he's not wrong. People throw a lot of shade at PoW but nobody seems to have a problem with gold mining operations which doesn't seem logical.

holy shit the merge is exposing so many supposedly educated and intelligent people for the financial illiterates they are

>>51461067
If you invested in ETH not knowing PoS was the target you need to get an MRI asap.

>>51460628
Salt was rarer than gold, dumb fuck. Salt only became abundant with modern deep salt mines.

>>51463264
If you can't identify the difference between mining gold and insane amounts of computing power generating sha hashes and discarding them because they don't start with enough 0s, you are either intellectually dishonest or a retard.

>>51460555
>"satoshi" developing systems to hide transactions off chain and steal fees from miners
nobody really believes this faggot is satoshi do they?

>>51463523
Can you?

>>51460555
trips.
it checks out.
hes right.

>>51460555
We should stick with horse and cart because horses are scarce and require more resources instead of paying for gas.

>>51463636
kek

This is why i own CKB

>>51460555
Checked

>>51460555
Yeah and artificial scarcity isnt real scarcity

>>51460628
Am I the only one who thinks gold is worthless? Tradition is not an argument and lots of other things meet the parameters of scarcity, fungibility, etc.

>>51460555
Adam Back feels threatened. Why else would he constantly need to defend orange coin? Unprovoked reactions speak for themselves sometimes.

>>51463705
it's not worthless but yes it's hugely overvalued relative to what it actually is. platinum is many times more scarce but is cheaper per ounce. total bullshit

>>51463727
Why isn’t it worthless? Am I correct in assuming the whole thing with gold is just that it has a history and is traditional money?

>>51463587
Gold is tangible and has useful physical properties which benefit most people, extracting gold is wasteful but not by design. If less wasteful and more efficient extraction can happen, it probably will.

Bitcoin is intangible and is based on politics and economics, if you don't buy into the politics behind bitcoin it's impossible to justify it's wastefulness. It will never become more efficient and will only become more wasteful as hashrates go up which is by design.

>>51463739
it's not worthless because when demand exceeds current supply, it is expensive to get more of if out of the earth

>>51463739
>Am I correct in assuming the whole thing with gold is just that it has a history and is traditional money?
yeah it has a massive legacy network effect from being used for thousands of years and is propped up by memes. very unhealthy, not based on reality. I think it's more likely we'll mine that stupid asteroid full of gold before we ever breed the retardboner for gold out of the human population.

it's not worthless because it's better than copper for electronics. gold would be used for all sorts of things if it didn't carry such a stupid premium

>>51460621
Eth retards have no argument other than to toss around the glow nigger term maxi

>>51460628
Ok fag. What can you buy right now with gold?

>>51463763
>Gold is tangible
Irrelevant.
>physical properties which benefit most people
Like what.
>If less wasteful and more efficient extraction can happen, it probably will.
This applies to literally every industry. Your point?
>based on politics and economics
Gold has even more relevance in the political and economic landscape than crypto mememoney.

Terrible arguments.

>>51460555
Checked. But what if PoW gets banned because muh climate change ?

>>51461067
baggies refuse to believe there is a strong possibility eth will never return to its ath

eth isnt trying to be digital gold, it's digital oil

>>51461173
>Zoomers are literally boomers
So we just need to hold any crypto we can buy and we'll be rich in a few decades. And the job market is going to fantastic, with high paying jobs being extremely easy to bag with a firm handshake and a suit? Why do I doubt this?

>>51460621
But he is literally correct man wtf are you saying ETH just threw away the key thing that stopped it being a ponzi

>>51460628
you mean non-fungible

>>51461268
They were making jewelry out of sea shells...

>>51463818
>Like what.
It's industrial uses, in electronics is probably where most people benefit from it.
>This applies to literally every industry. Your point?
Bitcoin will never become less wasteful, only more so which is by design.
>Gold has even more relevance in the political and economic landscape than crypto mememoney.
It's bitcoins only real value, aside from speculation. While gold has other uses that you can justify it's wastefulness for.

My point is that the only way to justify bitcoin being so wasteful is by saying that waste is ok because it competes with central banking. Trying to make retarded comparisons of bitcoin mining and gold mining is just being stupid.

>>51463962
nigger you realize gold has been used as a store of value since before electricity? or does that throw a wrench in your le wholesome chungus reddit argument so you have to ignore it?

>>51463962
>It's industrial uses
go look up the % of gold that actually gets used industrially, the amount is infinitesimal
>Bitcoin will never become less wasteful
That's the compromise BTC has to do to be secure. What does that have to do with what you said, anyways?
Mining gold IS wasteful. Overall it's probably way worse than mining BTC. "If we find a way to make it less wasteful" is not an argument. The issue doesn't just disappear because 'maybe in the future it will be less bad'.
>It's bitcoins only real value, aside from speculation.
This doesn't change the fact that the argument you used against BTC is also present on gold.
>has other uses that you can justify it's wastefulness for
Wrong. As I said before the ACTUAL industry uses of gold are so small that there's no justification to keep digging it.

You are just moving the goalposts and deflecting.

>>51460621
/thread

>>51460555
Bitcoin is hurting the planet and must be stopped. Period.

POW and POS are both distribution methods.

POW incentivizes people to allocate resources in exchange for a share of the rewards. Spending money to mine has an obvious cost.

POS is the same, except the resources you allocate are the same thing as the reward. Locking up funds has an opportunity cost, because you could use that money to generate more money elsewhere.
POW has to come first, as nobody inherently understood the value of cryptocurrency yet. but obviously now with ETH people do.

an argument can definitely be made that POS's security is hypothetically weaker than POW due to the fungible nature of how that security is generated, but the two methods of distribution and security are not inherently different from one another. Both reward X in exchange for expending Y.

>>51464058
My goalposts are in the same place, gold mining and bitcoin mining are different. Gold mining is done to get gold, a pretty large amount of which is used to make things which can justify digging it out of the ground since there is no other way to get it.

Bitcoin is nothing but a speculative asset right now that one day might threaten central banking which requires huge amounts of wasted energy to keep it secure.

It's fine to argue that killing central banking is worth that wasted energy but pretending that bitcoin is like gold is just disingenuous.

>>51463739
Gold as a precious metal has uses in industry. Obviously not to the degree of justifying its current value but it still has its uses.

>>51460555
>digital gold
>production costs
why are maxis so fucking retarded and deluded? They literally pilpul like kikes.

>>51464233
>gold mining and bitcoin mining are different
But you have not explained why. You just moved the goalposts and pointed some irrelevant stuff that has nothing to do with the differences between the two.
>a pretty large amount of which is used to make things
Again, factually wrong. The industrial uses for gold are small compared to the amount of gold that gets mined. There's no reason to mine more gold that it's necessary (and creating more waste) than what is needed industrially. Your entire argument is flawed is revolves around this.
>Bitcoin is nothing but a speculative asset
Gold is especulative as well. So are stocks. So it buying land.
Something being speculative doesn't mean anything and doesn't make it wrong or bad.
>wasted energy
What wasted energy? Have you ran out of energy at some point in your house?
What about the mostly green BTC mining operations? What about the geothermal mining operations?
Also, isn't energy used for gold mining (surplus over industrial needs) wasted as well?
>pretending that bitcoin is like gold
Who said anything like this? Who are you quoting? lol

>>51461469
this

>>51461120
unfathomably based

>>51463264
It's almost as if one is producing something and the other don't.

>>51464058
>pilpul and use sophistries like if he was the rabbi of Tel Aviv in person
>accuse the other party of doing it
how talmudic of you, anon

>>51464301
>ingots that will sit in a safe
>something
lol
lmao even

>>51464332
>gold gets mined for industry
>"industry uses of gold are extremely limited, they don't justify tonnes of extraction every year"
>LE pilpul
you can do way better than that

>>51464335
>bitcorn who costed 0.00000001c to mine are the same as bitcorn who cost 30k to mine
>this is justifiable in the mind of the maxoid
also
>bitcorns that will sit in a cold storage
>nothing
lmao, haha even

>>51464343
Ah yes, the famous CPU coated in btc, and the resistors, relay contacts and connexion strips in bitcoin.
The famous bitcoin used in electronic devices like GPS and smartphones.
The bitcoin very well known to make jewelry. The anti-corrosion, eternal bitcoin used in motherboards and RAM of every computers for socket connectors and electropated components.
Also the great bitcoin used for sattelites coating, the teeth in bitcoin, The injections of solutions of sodium bitcoinothiomalate to treat rheumatoid arthritis.
The radioactive bitcoin isotope to treat cancers. The colloidal solution of bitcoin tracked as a beta emitter for MRI scanning.
The bitcoin nanoparticles for microcoating and nanomirroring.
The bitcoin, used in every launch of any NASA vehicle, as non-organic lubricant, connector and conductor. The famous bitcoin shields used to stop infrared radiations beyond earth's atmosphere.

The bitcoin used as pigment for paints and glassmaking. The bitcoin leaf so your building's roof is shiny. The bitcoin, who can be melted, forged, hammered and drown into lava a billion time and will always keep all it's properties.

>>51464357
>bitcorn who costed 0.00000001c to mine are the same as bitcorn who cost 30k to mine
oof terrible analogy because the gold that got mined 50 years ago did cost less to mine that it does today
>bitcorns that will sit in a cold storage
>nothing
The difference is that I'm not the one claiming that BTC has actual use cases nor a industrial use.

Are you okay?

>>51464371
>Ah yes, the famous CPU coated in btc, and the resistors, relay contacts and connexion strips
So the small % of gold used in industry justifies the rest of the extracted gold to make jewelry and hold in a safe? lol
Try to make some sense in your arguments.

>>51464375
>did cost less to mine that it does today
Everything costed less, that's what happen when you let your country be ruled by jews. Most of the minings' operations' costs is oil, before machinery and human labor.
And you are the one trying to compare a literal digital scam with a fucking commodity, you pilpuling kike.

>>51464395
Everything i said make sense and nothing you said make any sense. You are making a fool of yourself and this is quite pathetic to witness.
Cringe some would say.

>>51464413
>>51464416
>doesn't address any of the points
You are done.

>>51463890
>Digital Oil
Anon digital diarrhea isn't helping anyone
>verification not required

>>51464420
Because there is no point to be addressed, simply because you can't compare gold and bitcorn. That's like trying to draw comparisons between a starfish and helium.
You try to start some shit flinging over something who can't be compared. Which make you a retard.
Simple as.

>>51464464
So you just don't have arguments left. Got it.
I accept your concession.

>>51461067
kek ethniggers eternally BTFO

>>51460555
pow is retarded. just because bitcoin is costly to mine it doesn't mean it is valuable. it would be hard work to catch a fart in a jar but that does't mean it has monetary value equal to the time and effort spent catching it. the only reason bitcoin has value is the faith of the holders.
The consensus mechanism simply secures the network but doesn't provide inherant value.

>>51460934
Try to physically (=no counterparty risk involved) pay with your gold in London for something in New York within less time than a a week. I can do it with Bitcoin within a half a day at worst.
See? Bitcoin is useful.

>>51462063
>value of token generated< the value of the work done=incentive to not generate token whatsoever
>value of token generated> the value of the work done=incentive to print token to infinity
I guess

>>51460555
Klaus Schwab would like to know Satoshi's location.

You could reduce your carbon footprint by 99.5% by removing the proof of work feature. After all, Bitcoin takes up about 10% of the worlds compute power. Imagine what we could achieve using that power for something better

>>51464491
>the only reason bitcoin has value is
>the faith of the holders.
false. it's the capabilities and use case of the network

>>51460555
Old WHITE males are no longer needed in crypto. He represents the banking establishment, fuck him.

>>51465024
>incentive to print token to infinity
Nonsensical. The value of the token would measure the utility of the work done.

>>51464464
213

>>51460555
>people value gold as hard money
Yeah, like a hundred years ago. Cant believe people think this idiot is satoj

>>51463320
yes>>51461184 >>51463406
>>51467286
he's not satoshi but banks are buying billions in gold, constantly manipulate gold & silver prices. you're retarded if you think pms aren't hard money.

>>51460555
ETH is not failing because of POS, but because of centralization, GAS fees, and scalability issues

>>51460628
'no'

>>51461290
aye

For ETH to become the basis of the world’s CBDCs, it had to become virtual fiat. There was no other way.

>>51460555
>Satoshi

>>51464371
I hope Michael Saylor doesn't see your post, he would have tweet material for years.

>>51469259
Thanks for playing, your TX cost is $19.

>>51460555
to be honest Adam is more like a "Sneedoshi" than "Satoshi"

>>51460555
>Satoshi has spoken.
Wasted digits.
If he was really Satoshi you wouldnt be so eager to shill this faggot.

>>51460555
>"uuuuhh that's an esoteric thing i don't believe that's accurate"

>>51460621
>stuck in 2008
>BTC hits it's ath in November 2021

btc hits ath every four years, usually in december or november, and everytime btc experiences a new low on the following year.

>>51460555
It's like watching a train derail itself, but slowly

>>51464491
If that were the case there would be a hundred shit coins above Bitcoin in mcap

>>51474532
Oops that was a response to >>51465061

>>51460555
Checked
For his next trick, let him explain why DOGE isn't #2 behind BTC on all metrics BTC is #1 for.

>>51460555
he's right, pos is communism

>>51460555
checked, all true
but BTC isn't necessarily the best POW blockchain...

>>51460628
Gold's only real value is that it can not be easily manipulated. That's it. That's all there is to it. Other metals do gold's job better for cheaper.

ETH has nothing backing it anymore other than Jewish promises. It's worse than USD.

>>51463763
im touching my seed phrase rn...btc is tamgible you retard. youre sm brain cant picture it

>>51461469
You are absolutely right but this argument ultimately only hold holds water in the pretext civilization goes back into a stone age without electricity, which arguably only can be global with nuclear weapons, in which you're modt likely dead, crippeled or some sort of Noah-esque kind of prepper as well, and even though I am quite the prepper next to my peers, I'm an Europoor faggot who don't live in Kansas and can't escape society as a whole as of yet, so I have to "make it" with unconventional means.
Gold is arguably useful, arguably more in practical terms - for some people - but just ask the average argintinan, ukrainian or russian citizen with international ties and work and ask him which medium of exchange is the safest and easiest one to use daily, and which investment is the most secure long-term. Even as BTC is growing in 'value' measured in fiat, largely because of ponzi-scheme like adoption (glowniggers siezing whales, bankers "trading" their paper btc, etc) it's still very secure to transfer, hold and easy to aquire.
That's the 'uesful' part it seems to me a lot of gold advocates don't want to credit a lot of cryptos for. Don't get me wrong. I'd hold gold too if my country wasn't itching for confiscation of assets is the next fiat currency reset, so I just focus on the everyday prepping stuff, like non-spoiling diesel, firewood, foodstuffs, antibiotics, workwear, and cash for a years expenses. Did I have land inland America I'd hold PMs instead, probably, if it's non-KYC to aquire.

>>51469330
You. Back into the joke and cum mine, you.

>>51460555
Done, sold all of my ETH and put it on equal parts BTC and SHINJA

>>51460555
checked and he's not wrong

You idiots missed one key factor. Gold does not react. It is the most noble of metals. It will keep its form for centuries. It is the only elemental metal with that color, along with scarcity make it the ultimate natural currency. Unforgable, timeless and recognizable even by a child. You cannot say the same for any metal. Platinum group metals are noble as well but they all look the same to a laymen, needing a scale and tests for what metal it is. Plus they are much more scarce than gold, which is already a scarce metal. This makes them impractical for a universal currency. Gold is found almost everywhere on earth to varying degrees. Silver is second, only really reacting to sulfur, rare yet abundant enough for daily currency, and brilliant. The shiniest, most reflective metal. Copper is in close third due to its color being uncommon. Though its easy to find giving it a peasant tier currency. You can extrapilate this to crypto however you think best.

>>51460621
True, but what Adam Back (Satoshi) said is also legit.
I just don't care because you don't make money with boomercoin lmao

>>51461290

Copper has been used for coins you mong.

The same discussion over and over again

>You idiots missed one key factor.
no, what you said has been said thousands of times on this board
and also the counter-argument to that
and the counter-argument to that

>>51460855
>trump laser eye meme
retard