/biz/ - Business & Finance

Monero will never be allowed to exist. Governments will force ISPs to crack down on miners.

>>51026172
Monero works over Tor/I2P, so ISPs need not apply.
Monero uses CPU mining, so centralized ASIC miners need not apply. It is almost completely backed by botnet compute power.

>>51026209
You realize ISPs can see when you are using Tor/l2p, right?

>>51026172
>drug not allowed to exist, still exist
>DNMs not allowed to exist, still exist
>pirating software not allowed to exist, still exist
>pirating books not allowed to exist, still exist
>Monero not allowed to exist, [...]
They are going to do what ? DNS blacklist, like they do all the time ? Kek.
>change dns / use tor / I2P
nothing personal

>>51026220
The government already struggles to crack down on I2P/Tor, they're going to shut the network down to prevent people from using monero? doubtful.

>>51026221
monero is an existential risk to "the establishment" unlike any of those other things you just listed.

They won't allow it to replace FIAT, even if they have to fundamentally alter or destroy the internet to accomplish this.

>>51026220
>what are tor bridges
>>51026209
monero also uses dandelion++, that uses randomized multi-node diffusion to anonymize the originator of every transaction broadcasted to the network. this can be augmented with tor or I2P.

>>51026246
Why would they crack down when they can just turn it into their own honeypot?

monero is a glownigger honeypot and the developers worked with interpol in the past.

>>51026220
tor was literally created by the government, they themselves use that shit retardo

ALL IN MONERO TO THE MOON!

LETS GOOOOOO!!!

>>51026261
>implying its not already their honeypot

>>51026221
Drugs, pirated software, books, etc all exist because they have utility on their own. People acquire them, whether by legal or illegal means, to use them for utility or consume them. Monero has no utility other than "you can give it to someone else". You can't use it on your own or consume it. When its only purpose is to be traded and you can't trade it for any tangible or utilitarian assets in the real world without going to jail, any reason for it to exist goes away.

>>51026267
>t. didn't studied the cryptography, actually dont even know what an elliptic curve is
>>51026303
>Monero has no utility other than "you can give it to someone else"
that's called a currency yes
>you can't trade it for any tangible or utilitarian assets in the real world
the trend is exactly backwards, more and more people use it, because it's a superior currency
>[but they in the future they will kill you for it!]
what do you think the untraceable properties are for ?

>>51026369
Government has practically all businesses under their thumb. You can keep trading it back and forth within your fringe group, but you will never be able to buy groceries, real estate, gas, or any daily consumables with it if it becomes illegal.

>>51026382
If it ever became illegal I would stop participating in society completely. I'm barely interested in participating as it is.

>>51026382
double digit percent of all trades in the world are already under the table.
imagine thinking that governments are omniscient entities.
it's dynamic, you push one way, it comes back stronger elsewhere, crypto is anti-fragile.
it's over, they just don't know it yet.

>>51026382
>hire 84k new IRS agents
>start busting people left and right
>ban monero
>the domestic state of the country is currently lol lmao even

Next few years are going to be interesting.

>>51026249
>They won't allow it to replace FIAT
xmr is a 2.7 bn marketcap chill the fuck out lol

>>51026479
The whole point of crypto and especially Monero is to replace FIAT.

Monero has the best chance of actually achieving this, but unless the glowies decide they really like it and want to use it themselves, it won't accomplish it's goal.

>>51026172
>Monero will never be allowed to exist.

Isn't crypto supposed to be permissionless?

>>51026172
>muh gub ban
Governments mine crypto world wide.
>>51026249
Why does Klaus invite FLuffypomy to Davos/Wef; why is he asked specifically about CBDC's?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSd0GCQFsiA
>xmr wont exist
it's been over 8 years

>>51026680
In a free and open internet environment.

>>51026144
discreet literally does everything better than monero - its in the whitepaper

>>51026221
monero wants to be a currency tho (apparently in OP smug image)

try using drugs as a currency in a normal store, kek

>>51026369
>t. retard thinks monero isnt a honeypot because >buzzwords

>>51026881
>Why does Klaus invite FLuffypomy to Davos/Wef;
because its a honeypot, the Monero developers are in on it of course.

I think the plan is to lure all the subversie elements into Monero and then rug them all at once.
all their enemies become impoverished basically over night.

>>51027036
listen to a doctor's shitposts
Dr. Rolf van Wegberg
https://youtu.be/9oAuDf9-mdU?t=3436

>>51026993
>try using drugs as a currency in a normal store, kek
like this ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZ0e6SFi3XU
>>51027036
i think monero isn't a honeypot because I studied its underlying cryptography unlike you because you are a double digit IQ retard (or a glowie, but that's the same thing)
>huh durr honeypot
yeah tell that to the DNMs admin since you know better than them
>>51027055
>I think the plan is to lure all the subversie elements into Monero and then rug them all at once.
most of us have a shitload of BTC at the very least, and reality is a dynamic system, there is a demand for privacy, if you magically kill monero a fork or something else will appear
ockham razor: it isn't a honeypot and you are just completely retarded

>>51026432
agreed

>>51027164
flood monero attack is cheap and removes all anonymity

>>51027411
>flood monero attack
A what?

>>51027653
google it, they basically spam transactions and that removes the anonymity.
costs like 1000 dollar to do so for glowniggers with unlimited funds is easy af

>>51027670
>spam transactions

It's not spam if miners are accepting it, which they do for money btw lmao. In no way would using the fucking protocol cause the anonymity to break. Where do you get this shit?

>>51026172
The "war against Monero" will be insanely bullish for Monero, just as the wars against drugs, terror, etc., were for their respective commodities.

>>51027670

>>51027908
>>51027670
>>51027691
It seems like a valid concern to me, 963209 Txs last month, current 30-day average fee of $0.019, 18.3k USD in monthly tx fees. If I was the US government, I'd have enough money to own 99.9% of transactions if I wanted. Hopefully that changes when ring sizes are increased to 128

>>51028013
>I'd have enough money to own 99.9% of transactions if I wanted
If the government came in and did that many transactions it would break anything. They'd just be feeding miners and cause the network to grow.

>privacy fully dependant on non-incentivized users
>transaction fees only disincentive against de-anonymizing users
>makes the blocksize expand infinitely
>forces fees down to sub 1 cent
>why are governments able to statistically analyze monero?????

>>51028146
they could easily figure out which transactions go where by just flooding it.
they have unlimited funds.

>>51027691
>In no way would using the fucking protocol cause the anonymity to break
yes it would.
they can figure out where each transactions goes.
there is nothing anonymous about Monero.

>>51027807
there is no war, its a honeypot and (((they))) are waiting for the pot to fill up and then they rug it.
its funny tho how Boomers still think Monero is some super secure anonymous currency that glowniggers cant possibly exploit.

>>51028407
>>51028417
You only know where you send money on the chain, dude. It literally doesn't matter if a government is doing 99% of the transactions when all they can see is their own transactions can't check any balances they do not hold the keys to.

>>51028468
>after flooding the network for 12 months, the attacker can identify the true spend of 46.24% of newly created transaction inputs by conducting the strongest attack and 14.47% by using the low-profile strategy.
nice half assed anonymity.
and that flood attack costs them as good as nothing and they have unlimited funds.

>>51028417
>there is nothing anonymous about Monero.
curious what you used to pay for the crack youre smoking

>>51028512
>pretends "flood monero" doesnt exist

>>51028503
>after flooding the network for 12 months, the attacker can identify the true spend of 46.24% of newly created transaction inputs by conducting the strongest attack and 14.47% by using the low-profile strategy

What in the absolute fuck are you talking about?

>be miner
>accept transaction
>get paid money
>wtf I'm flooded now

>>51028546
>However, in spite of the efforts to protect Monero’s users privacy, transaction tracing attacks are still feasible. Our contribution is twofold. First, we propose and evaluate a new traceability attack, called transaction flooding attack (FloodXMR). Second, we present an analysis of the costs required for an attacker to conduct FloodXMR. We show how an attacker can take advantage of Monero’s Bulletproof protocol, which reduces transaction fees, to flood the network with his own transactions and, consequently, remove mixins from transaction inputs. Assuming an attack timeframe of 12 months, our findings show that an attacker can trace up to 47.63% of the transaction inputs at a cost of just 1,746.53 USD. Moreover, we show also that more than 90% of the inputs are affected by our tracing algorithm.

It only costs 1700 dollars to remove 47% of the anonymity.
now I know its hard but try and rub your two braincells together and THINK what this could mean for an attacker with literally UNLIMITED FUNDS such as a Government agency.
I tell you what it means, it means you arent anonymous.

>>51028614

loooooooooooooooooool he's citing that debunked study that didn't even conduct an actual flood attack, they merely simulated it under unrealistically favorable lab conditions and then drew a bunch of erroneous conclusions.

It was ripped to shreds and laughed out of town by the devs, it was hilarous.

FUD harder!

>>51028742
sounds like bunch of copes.
>but but the devs said
the same devs that go to WEF meetups and work together with Interpol.

>>51028759

Shitty methodology is shit. Really scraping the bottom of the barrel now lol.

>>51028776
>Really scraping the bottom of the barrel now
so you have no problem with Monero developers that go to WEF meetups and that work together with Interpol and probably dozens of other Government institutions?
you think people like this wouldnt backdoor this shit or allow other exploits for their masters?
how naive.

>>51028614
>>51028742
Climate science tier methods and of course no actual results just simulation.

>>51028919
and you think a Government agency with UNLIMITED FUNDS cant develop this further?

>>51028841

What part of "open source code" is confusing to you? The NSA literally developed the SHA-256 algorithm that Bitcoin uses, it doesn't make any difference because the code has been thoroughly audited and given the all-clear.

>SHA-2 (Secure Hash Algorithm 2) is a set of cryptographic hash functions designed by the United States National Security Agency (NSA) and first published in 2001.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SHA-2#Applications

>>51028957
>further develop a false premise

Knock yourself our, big guy.

>>51028985
and the glowniggers are also behind monero, they for sure didnt develop this so goys like you can avoid paying their share. you are either getting rugged at some point or the taxman will pay you a visit eventually.
whats so confusing about "honeypot" for you?

>>51028996
another naive boomer thinking he can outsmart government agencies that have unlimited funds and trusts the word of developers who are clearly in on it.
ngmi.

>>51029071
>It's broken!
>well its not actually broken, but in two weeks they'll break it with their unlimited funds
>also they're already in on the development which is why breaking it is taking so long

Absolute state.

>>51029071
>whats so confusing about "honeypot" for you?

the fact that you've yet to point out the offending code lol

>>51029121
you dont know if its broken or not, you just assume it isnt and hope for the best.
not very smart.
>>51029138
>no it possibly cant be a honeypot or broken in any way! I'm too smart for this!
ngmi

>>51029176
>>no it possibly cant be a honeypot or broken in any way! I'm too smart for this!
>ngmi

well, its very easy to prove. Go and find the offending code and report back, we'll wait!

>>51029335
Thats not how it works boomer, enjoy getting rugged.

>>51029602

Code is law, genius.

>>51029685
>exploits in a honeypot dont exist
cope

>>51029702

How about you point these exploits out to us, mmmkay?

>>51029717
FloodXMR is an exploit.

>>51029723

FloodXMR doesn't work, remember?

>>51029762
Said the developers who are clearly in on it.
Point is its an exploit and it doesnt require it to be in the code.
But keep coping, I‘m sure the guys working with the WEF and Interpol always say the truth and want the best for you.

>>51026144
That monero narrative is correct.
I even use it for that purpose myself, using anything other than XMR on darknet markets is just dumb.

But take note though, the image itself shows it, the narrative doesn't include store of value nor investment.

Is a secure, private, ubtaceable, fungible currency a store of value or an investment? I don't think that's an automatic conclusion. It's not exactly hard to convert into it whenever I want to make an untraceable purchase.

And if it was, why wouldn't they include it in the narrative shown?

>>51029780
Do you have evidence to contribute or just seething?

>>51029780
>Said the developers who are clearly in on it.

Clearly.

>Point is its an exploit and it doesnt require it to be in the code.

Its not an exploit, its a theoretical and well-understood theoretical attack vector that has never actually been successfully mounted due to the requirement of *exclusive* and *sustained* control over a *super-majority* of outputs.

TL;DR: flood attacks are very easily neutralized by counter-spamming.

>>51026221
>Drugs not allowed to exist
CIA and FBI were large importers of them. The only bad drugs in their eyes is the ones that they aren't supplying. The war on drugs was to secure their monopoly against non controlled cartels.
>DNMs not allowed to exist
How many founders of them are now spending life in Guantanamo Esq prison? Yeah they pop back up but they proven themselves somewhat successful at cracking tech that keeps you so called anonymous. Also you're naive if you think they would ever let it be leaked in court cases that they have a back door or a way through your obfuscation. This type of tech works until you're big enough for them to go after.
>Pirating software still exists
Millions world wide have been fined or imprisoned for this. Pirating only exists as a nonpunishable crime in countries that refuse to apply software copyright laws (or those tech savvy enough to make it difficult to track) not because they can't go after you. It's isn't financially viable to go after such small fish getting the odd movie, stream or book. Your ISP probably knows that you have been pirating software etc in most western countries; they just know it's not worth going after you if you're not distributing or pirating massive amounts.
>Pirating books
Same as previous point
>Monero not allowed to exist
It will exist but it will become very niche in the face of sanctions. Are gift cards and illiquid dexs + illiquid p2p really the community's solution to CEXs being potentially sanctioned in the near future? I would like to see someone try to buy even $1000 worth of XMR with gift cards, let alone $100k+ purchases of XMR (which is >90% of BTCs current volume).

XMR is great if things don't change. If it starts to capture hundreds of billions in value you're in trouble as it currently stands. I don't see the dev push in areas like atomic swaps, UX and dex's to solve these problems. You can't be reactionary in regards to sanctions.

>>51029849
So, lets start spamming transactions then. At least until they upgrade the ring size to 128.

>>51029893
>If it starts to capture hundreds of billions in value you're in trouble

I can promise you I won't feel that way if Monero captures 100s of billions in value.

>>51029895
>So, lets start spamming transactions then. At least until they upgrade the ring size to 128.

Its certainly possible that OG XMR dev whales have been doing so preemptively, they're literally multi-millionaires so it would cost pocket change for them to protect their life's work.

>>51029893

Nigga, what does "permissionless" even mean to you? Crypto that requires the government tolerating it to survive isn't worth using, might as well just stick with PayPal at that point.

Yes, Monero will likely be shut off from the mainstream economy eventually, we all know that, its why we're so focused on growing the circular economy and expanding the ecosystem in the meantime.

>>51029849
>that has never actually been successfully mounted
past performance is no indicator of the future.
>>51029814
do you have anything besides naive copes and wishful thinking trusting WEF/Interpol Agents?

>>51029780
1700 isn't that much money. Do it yourself and report back.

>>51030002
>they're literally multi-millionaires
up against trillionaires that have the ability to print unlimited funds for themselves.
>>51030134
what if a government agency develops this further and scales it up?
you think dropping 20 million on this to bust tax evaders for billions is a bad investment for them?

>>51030127
>past performance is no indicator of the future.

Are you dense? As time passes flood attack difficulty only keeps increasing due to more users and larger ring sizes.

>>51030151
Still requires acquiring the XMR first. Increasing the network value and drawing more people in. It's a lose lose fight for them.

>>51030176
Monero is centralized, they can develop this further and they have unlimited funding.
its only a question of "when?"
you must be pretty dumb if you dont understand this.
>>51030181
it costs them nothing, they can print unlimited amounts of money to attack it.

>>51030203
>it costs them nothing, they can print unlimited amounts of money to attack it.

1 XMR = 1 XMR

Buying up XMR raises the price just as infinitely as they print.

>>51030151
>up against trillionaires that have the ability to print unlimited funds for themselves.

>>51030203
>Monero is centralized, they can develop this further and they have unlimited funding.
>its only a question of "when?"

lol do you even understand the concept of cryptography? How math works?

>>51030247
>Buying up
they dont have to buy it up, they run the honeypot since day 1.
>>51030252
>"the math is perfect! exploits and honeypots dont exist! a developer that calls himself fluffyhomo and that works with the WEF assured me its all anonymous! it must be true!"

>>51030279
>they have infinite money they don't need because they already control it
>you'll see two more weeks

jfc dude

>>51030295
>you'll see two more weeks
or maybe tomorrow, or maybe next year.
nobody knows.
it wouldnt be a good honeypot if they told you about it.

If monero weren't a honeypot it wouldn't be so aggressively defended and shilled everywhere

>>51026915
Well its only natural that there are more innovative privacy solutions in the space. I've also spotted good innovation in a DEX that facilitates private trades and swaps.

>>51030327
good point, they also never accept that Monero could have flaws or attack vectors, exploits etc.
>>51030423
there is no privacy in crypto.

>>51030151
>what if a government agency develops this further and scales it up?
Why would they bother if they can destroy it for $1700?

>>51030650
its a hypothetical question.
even in the best case scenario where the attack is 1000x harder to do, which means more costly thats still only 1.7 million dollars, 10000x is only 17 million.
in terms of budget thats nothing. if they can dedicate 20 million to cracking this somehow and get potentially billions in return? why wouldnt they?

>>51027411
>flood monero attack is cheap
he doesn't know about the hard fork

>>51030744
Alright, lets say that they do this.
How do they go from
>i decrypted ring signatures
To
>i know who sent what coins to who and how much
If addresses and amounts never touch the chain?

>>51030990
they can figure that out with their unlimited budget and having in depth knowledge of how everything works.
and thats also probably not the only attack vector that exists.

>>51030990

cracking ring sigs would only yield the true spend, not addresses or amounts.

And knowing the true spend is useless if there is no KYC data to potentially correlate it with.

In other words, if you only use zero-KYX DEXs there is literally nothing for the feds to go on, a cracked ring sig remains just an alphanumeric string.

No amount of money thrown at this would change anything.

>>51031079
Based

>>51031062
There's literally an unlimited amount of exploits that could possibly exist, but what you're suggesting would mean that encryption, including the kinds the government uses, is broken and script kiddies would crack every database on earth within the hour.
There simply isn't a world where monero is broken and the hunter-natalie video isn't on pornhub as a result

>>51029797
>>I don't think that's an automatic conclusion.
It is a store of value because it's that's an inherent property of money.
A currency is:
>a medium of exchange
>a unit of account
>portable
>divisible
>fungible (interchangeable)

Money is
>all of the above
>plus a store of value

Monero is money, therefore it has all of the aforementioned properties. It is incorrect/foolish to say that it is an investment.

>29 posts of logical fallacies, circular arguments and debunked refutals
Jesus Christ, the cope & seethe is real with this guy.

Even IF they could crack Monero and its encryption & cryptography, you'd have bigger problems to worry about.

>>51026462
based take

>>51026285
Agree. The IRS were paying people to backdoor monero in 2019. Pretty sure it's a honeypot by now.

>>51026144
BSV

>Sbi7RpWS
What a massive faggot

>>51026680
>>51026172
THE REVOLUTION WILL NOT BE TELEVISED.
THE REVOLUTION WILL NOT BE LISTED ON COINBASE.

>>51027411
>flood monero attack is cheap and removes all anonymity
Not even close. Just do the basic thought experiment: What if [insert enemy] created every output besides the ones between you and your trading partners? What does your enemy know? Answer: Not much. They can say "Look, a real transaction! Appears to be an unknown amount going to a stealth address! Stay posted for when it moves again!"

And if even two enemies tried to create this attack at the same time they would completely ruin it for eachother. Not to mention the fact that there are thousands of regular txs means that the ideal hypothetical case is impossible and even the most highly coordinated enemy with limitless resources could still only make probabilistic guesses about outputs.

It's such stupid fud, I'm sure the only reason agencies pursue flood and trace techniques is to make a platform for fud to slow Monero's adoption by scaring the average person.