/biz/ - Business & Finance

Who is this man and why i wanna sniff his neck?

Because they didn't solve it

>>49983095
Maybe not solved, I should have used "improved" instead.

>>49982937
>Why haven't other projects adopted this architecture?
Why would they? Well first off they don't know, second if they do know it wouldn't make much sense, imagine BTC adopting Chainweb, it would never happen
>Where can I see some benchmarks?
webm related
>>49983145
No they pretty much solve it. Straight up solved.

>>49982937
Kadena sounds like a shampoo brand

>>49983164

>>49983145
>Maybe not solved, I should have used "improved" instead.
ZKSync's ZKPorter has gotten up to 25,000 TPS and will be EVM compatible.

TLDR Kadena has to fight for market share and try gather network effects via developer and users.

>>49983183
ZK-Rollups are too expensive for arbitrary smart contract execution. They are affordable when the circuits are very simple, as in the case of swaps and simple payments transactions, but they are impossibly expensive and unworkable for non-trivial smart contract execution. Even breakthroughs like PLONK don't bring them anywhere close to being able to support the types of complex contracts that can already be run on Arbitrum with no modification. Do you understand how the proofs are generated in systems like zksync? Do you know the prover pods are centralized? Do you know what challenges they must overcome to decentralize the provers? Currently the zksync team eats all the cloud compute costs associated with the prover pods. What is to stop me from asking them to generate lots and lots of very expensive proofs? They must censor me or they must find a way to make the users pay the costs of generating the proofs. And what about security? If I'm paying for and generating my own proofs, is the zksync team going to trust and store my proof in their private database? How do they decentralize that? There are some major, probably insurmountable, obstacles for zk rollups to overcome if they want to be a place where devs can execute any general purpose EVM-compatible smart contract.

>>49983190
>ZK-Rollups are too expensive for arbitrary smart contract execution
lel
falsified by at the live systems Starkware has using STARKS, enjoy bag holding your kadena investment.

>able to support the types of complex contracts that can already be run on Arbitrum with no modification.
you're so ignorant, there's even open source projects like Scroll working on full EVM compatibility using the tiny ram technique iirc

I guess as an investor I'll just miss out on all the devs and users driving value into Kadena's token

kek
fucking ghost chain shill

>>49983312
Rollups all basically run under one fucking sequencer. This is how your meme solution works.
The future of L2 is centralized block production. And you still have to pay L1 fees if you want to bridge.

>>49983340
>And you still have to pay L1 fees if you want to bridge.
Who pays fees on kadena?
Oh that's right nobody!
kek

>>49983365
If you had a better argument you would have made one.

>>49982937
is that a tranny or just an ugly manfaced woman?

>>49983386
Would you rather trust pretty or ugly women working as blockchain devs? Honest answers only.

>>49983190
Then what are the alternatives?
>>49983312
>falsified by at the live systems Starkware has using STARKS, enjoy bag holding your kadena investment.
Why did dYdX abandon Starkware?

>>49983879
>what are the alternatives?
Production ready L1 state sharding.
And you wouldn't believe it but kadena has that right now haha

So. Is it a good idea to buy a small bag of kadena tranny coin sers? Serious answers only.

>>49983983
No it's a scam

>>49983933
This might sound like a dumb question, but if the answer was so obvious, then why haven't Emin, Vitalik, Gavin, etc. implemented this? They're all computer scientists/cryptographers. How is it that something resembling a high-school project solved the scalability issue? Who is behind Kadena anyway?

>>49983395
No, i'd rather trust a man or a troon.

>>49984272
First off, fuck you. You already know all the answers and are trying to get me to shill it in hopes that this muh organic discussion will lead to other people buying or whatever.
But just in case I'm wrong and just schizophrenic I will reply
>Who is behind Kadena
Arguably people who are much more competent than Vitalik, Gavin and.. emin (lol)
>How is it that something resembling a high-school project
only by every other metric than actual code. Just because the website and logo looks like shit doesn't mean the whole thing is a high-school project.
>then why haven't BIG CRYPTO PERSONALITIES, etc. implemented this?
Because they 1. Have never heard of chainweb. An answer which increasingly sounds retarded because at some point they had to have heard of them. For example I remember Charles from cardano talking about them saying he's keeping his eye on Kda but that was years ago and since then there was no peep. Same goes for crypto twitter personalizes, people who spend their entire life researching SCALABILITY solutions have not once talked about kadena at all. Eric wall, talked multiple times about side chain bitcoins, sharding and literally canno't stop talking about scaling solutions.. Not one fucking mention of kadena anywhere.
or 2. are trying to hide it because "muh it's so good that it makes everything they shill irrelevant" I don't even want to bother with this argument so I'll skip it.
Lastly 3. Something is wrong with the idea. Which made sense in 2019 but ever since mainnet and scaling from 10 to 20 there is no doubt in any normal person's mind that, yeah it works.
>Vitalik
https://www.kdaresearch.info/other-crypto-projects/eth-endgame

>>49984272
Because you can't make PoS use chainweb, it's a PoW solution. They're PoS shills who only want to keep an evergrowing % of the network under their direct control. That and because they think PoS is a better narrative vs energy fud.

They all heard of Kadena, they are still accoomulating. This isnt some retarded PoS network where you buy the supply once and are set for life.

>>49984391
Who is this succubus?
>First off, fuck you.
No offence taken.
>You already know all the answers and are trying to get me to shill it in hopes that this muh organic discussion will lead to other people buying or whatever.
No, I don't. I literally had to google Chainweb a few minutes ago. Without sounding off-topic, this was among the search results:
https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/abstract/document/9322246

It was literally the 3rd search result for googling "chainweb". Is this concerning to you?
>Arguably people who are much more competent than Vitalik, Gavin and.. emin (lol)
Who?

>>49985087
okay I believe you. I just went schizo because this happened before (multiple times even)
>Is this concerning to you?
If it was, I wouldn't be here and or holding this. Selfish mining also isn't a problem on bitcoin, it basically means if you own a big % you can earn more rewards. In this case it's even less worrying because this was made when the chain count was at 10. And this gets increasingly useless the more we scale out. At least that was last I checked.

>Who?
What?

>>49985087
>Who?
ah, pic.
But even if they were nobodies, which they clearly are not, the fact that they build something which works better than ETH2 should be reason enough

>>49985144
How can Kadena be so confident that it will scale without any benchmarks? We'd get a rough idea if there was any sort of activity on chain but to quote >>49983312
>ghost chain

>>49985345
>without any benchmarks?

>>49985233
Stuart Haber is a paid advisor, doesn't count. Stuart and Will built a permissioned blockchain for JPMorgan. On surface the team looks weak. Especially considering statements like "solved the scalability trilemma". I'd believe it if only there was a way to verify these claims. Otherwise it's blind faith.

>>49985425
>Stuart and Will built a permissioned blockchain
You're not gonna believe this but they also build a permissionless PoW blockchain called Chainweb.
> blind faith.
my nigga it scaled from 10 to 20 and it works right now.

>>49985353
Without usage there is no way to have verifiable tests.

>>49985449
>here is no way to have verifiable test
There is no way to test that a single chain does 15 or 50 tps?
geez anon guess we will never know then

>>49985464
What everyone wants to know is how it behaves during insane congestion as seen during the peak of the bullrun on the Ethereum chain. That's how you should benchmark.

>>49985850
Are you baiting? Etherum is a single 15 tps chain, everyone uses it, fees go up. Kadena is currently 20 Ethereum chains with the tech so scale it up to 1000 eth chains or 10000000 eth chains.
What the fuck do you not understand?

What you should be asking is how cross chain dapps will work, how well the smart contract language performs or how miner decentralization is going to look like.

If the only thing you can think of is
>"uhh maybe we need to see if a single chain can do 10 tps :((("
then you need to seriously stop buying crypto and invest in things you understand

>>49985850
Looked fine last time someone spammed transactions on all chains.

>>49985927
Miner decentralization is nonexistent since only Goldshell makes them and they cost 50k a piece?
>Are you baiting? Etherum is a single 15 tps chain, everyone uses it, fees go up. Kadena is currently 20 Ethereum chains with the tech so scale it up to 1000 eth chains or 10000000 eth chains.
What the fuck do you not understand?
TPS means nothing. Every chain claims superior TPS. Avalanche claims infinity with subnets and not long ago they congested with significant TX fees. TPS is a meme and not a real benchmark. I want to see the network under duress.

>>49986122
Let me get this straight, you know that you have no idea what you're talking about, yet you still make posts?
> Every chain claims superior TPS. Avalanche claims infinity with subnets
Were they using all the subnets? no, and you know this. So why bring this up? This makes no sense.
Avax is a single low bandwidth chain and subnets are side chains, L2 in a sense.
Imagine kadena as just the subnets with no main chain to bottleneck performance.
Does that make sense to you?

>solved the scaling trilemma
That's a very bold claim. There must be at least one drawback.
If not, how come other L1 projects did not start simply copying kadena?

It seems to work by using sharding. Do contracts "lives" on multiple shards? If the contracts needs to interact with something that lives in another chain, can it do right away or does it needs some synchronization? In this case, it would have similar drawbacks to other L2 solutions.

>>49986410
good morning datafag, is this thread larp central?
>Do contracts "lives" on multiple shards?
Yes they do and see this on why that's a good thing
https://www.kdaresearch.info/other-crypto-projects/near

>>49986410
>can it do right away
I believe so, yea https://pact-language.readthedocs.io/en/stable/pact-reference.html?highlight=pacts#public-pacts

d-does this look retraded or garbage

kadena is 1€ lol

kms

>>49987176
It looks very owo.

>>49986410
>>49986265
I admit that I'm not as tech savvy as you but the point stands. Like anon here said to claim Kadena solved what no other team did is bold af. If it were the case, they would have copied Chainweb's architecture. So there is obviously a drawback. You can't objectively claim Chainweb has no drawbacks as that's insane. If Chainweb scales then one of the two sides of the triangle will suffer, that is either security or decentralization. Can you really not name a single drawback lol? The more you insist it has none, the more it sounds and looks like a scam.

>>49987424
>Can you really not name a single drawback lol?
It is what is it anon

>>49987327
>looks very owo
i-is this good thing or bad thing

>>49987176
In the spirit of always being honest, the top part looks VERY nice but the bottom makes it look like a chink scam project, I c-can help u, unles...

>>49987424
>Can you really not name a single drawback?
It is what it is

>>49985353
>in theory, infinite scaling...
hubris.

>>49987501
If you had a better argument you would have made one.

>>49987451

>>49987511
me: prove you have scaling
you: prove that i don't have it!

>>49987554
There are numerous explanation ITT, in google, here https://chainweb3d.netlify.app etc etc
Just explain why this currently working solution is actually not working

>>49987573
because it's never been tested. that's the point you've been skirting around this entire thread

>>49987593 >>49983164?

>>49986436
https://www.kdaresearch.info/general-topics/sharding
>A popular dapp like cryptokitties can be first deployed to shard 0 and, when it becomes really popular (though likely sometime before) it can be upgrade/expanded to also be deployed on shards 1-19 as well. So not only does KDA scale layer 1, it scales dapps too
Seems like a contract can be deployed on multiple chains, but it's not something you get for free. The devs still have to think how they are gonna scale their app, like what data can be sharded without losing consistency and whatnot, which is fair since scaling is not trivial even for centralized systems, but the way it's been shilled implies that you get tons of scaling basically for free.
It's cool that apps developers can do something in case their chosen chain gets congested for some reason or their app has grown too much, instead of just crying in the corner about high fees as it is in ethereum right now.
Making something like chainweb work with POS does look to be insanely complex, so I understand why people whine about POS so much in these threads now. That's probably one of the reasons other projects did not just copy this architecture.

It still does not completely eradicate the need for L2 though, and that's fine for specific applications.
This kind of sharding does seem to make POW much more efficient: The way bitcoin is right now, extra hashpower does not really change much, the network is already plenty secure, there's a point where it's not really feasible anymore to attack the chain. In KDA, extra hashpower can always be distributed over more shards, so you can potentially get more scaling with hashpower, at least.

So, the good part of the protocol is that it has a clear path for scaling. Shilling it as a silver bullet is doing a disservice because that is making everyone think it's a scam, even though it actually has pretty interesting ideas.

>>49987593
see >>49985464
see >>49983164
see >>49985353

>>49987573
>Just explain why this currently working solution is actually not working
It hasn't been tested under real-world conditions of continulus high use has it? It's like how Solana claimed a very high throughput of stuff going through their system, until it was actually strained and it broke down well before their own self-stated limits

>>49987611
see >>49987593

>>49987605
>shilled implies that you get tons of scaling basically for free.
It's shilled as the only network capable of providing scalability. The fact you might think you get it for free is a (you) thing. Since no one ever said it would come with no extra work. Maybe that's a drawback, but considering the benefit is actual scalability. It barely registers. Anyway good summary I like :3
also I apologize for confusing you with someone else.

>>49987627
Solana claimed 50k tps on a single chain
Kadena claims 50 tps on a single chain

>>49987657
If you had a better argument you would have made one.

There are no dapps nor any usage on kadena. You will now if they solved anything when its heavily used, the rest is just „theory on paper“

>>49987605
>potentially get more scaling with hashpower,
Not sure what you meant with this though, you can scale to millions of chain with the same hashrate, so hashrate is unrelated from scaling.
>>49987693
N

>>49987424
>Can you really not name a single drawback lol
here you go dude, go from kda1 to kda10!
https://cp.radixdb.org/radix-competitors/kadena#kda1

>https://cp.radixdb.org/radix-competitors/kadena#kda1

https://cp.radixdb.org/radix-competitors/kadena#kda1

>https://cp.radixdb.org/radix-competitors/kadena#kda1

>>49987734
>Radix
See >>49985788
Their composability is a meme, doesn't exist on any chain, not even their own because it doesn't work.

>>49987734
>thinks radish isn't a scam
Opinion disregarded

>>49987678
Aren't you risking decentralization in a huge way since you're going to be splitting hashpower between so many shards?

Not to mention that their website looks like actual shit, their explorer looks like 2016 and, get this, they have 5 mill tx TOTAL over all these years. There are shitcoins out there with more tx. No one is using this crap and no one talks about it so it’s definitely crap

>>49987783
No, firstly this would have nothing to do with decentralization, you're talking about security I assume, read https://chainweb3d.netlify.app
>>49987794
If you had a better argument you would have made one.

>>49987783
The chains secure each other by braiding hashes in each other which means that after a certain depth you can confirm if a transaction happened on another chain in addition you confirm that the connected chains are valid and those chains check their connected chains and so on, so in order to 51% attack Kadena you need to attack all chains. That's the main good thing about Kadena.

https://www.kdaresearch.info/general-topics/chainweb/security

>>49987832
oh yeah speaking of confirmation depth
kadena's single-chain tx finality is 30 seconds
kadena's cross-chain op finality is confirmation depth multiplied by 30 seconds
at a confirmation depth of 7 kadena's cross-chain tx finality will be 3 AND A HALF MINUTES LOL

>>49987247
dude seriously ditch the PACT dogshit and develop with something actually useful like scrypto which is better in every way and most devs agree

>>49987886
>at a confirmation depth of 7
at a confirmation depth of 7 kadena will be able to handle well over half a million transactions per second.

>>49987886
Compared to the usual 20 minutes to 7 days on Ethereum for bridging layer that is actually pretty damn good. You won't normally be doing cross-chain transactions all the time anyways.

so here are the drawbacks
latency
atomicity
meme language
meme ecosystem
meme platform

>>49987456
n-not sure if this better b-but i wanted something retrad proof that idiot like me can use
i would really love some help

>>49987961
>i would really love some help

>>49987972
y-you said you would halp me 6 months ago

>>49987951
so here are the drawbacks of radix
shady history
vaporware
no way to scale with their garbage tech

oh no no no

>>49987989
dm

Ok i'll bite.

Can you mine Kadena for rewards?
How many miners or nodes currently?
Link me some kadena projects.
Is there a chain explorer or something where i can find data?

>>49988086
https://anedak.com/beta

>>49988086
>Can you mine Kadena for rewards?
Yes.
>How many miners or nodes currently?
1000 according to the nodelist on anedak.
>Link me some kadena projects.
This one >>49987961. It's the only one, we are putting all our hopes and dreams here.

>deleted
it's over we lost our project

it was the only project too

>>49987734
Interesting

>>49988217
explain the part you find interesting.

lmao

all you have to do is demonstrate kadena scaling infinitely. just show me ten million real tps, literally less than one percent of "infinite".

honestly if it CAN do it why is it so hard to just show it being done?

>>49988234
Starts off like this:
>#Kadena I took a look. The current "sharding" architecture of Kadena is similar to Harmony: it is "sharded" in some way, but you bascially have zero composability.
Not only is Harmony not actually sharded since it has a main chain that handles all the load, atomic composability is a meme invented by radish that not even they have solved because they can't make their scam scale. It doesn't work, isn't released, won't be released.

>>49988317
see >>49983164

>>49988137
>putting all hopes on a scam

>>49988351
I like to live on the edge.

>>49988318
so you don't know what a shard is, im not even a harmony shill but you are technically wrong retard https://docs.harmony.one/home/general/technology/sharding
also pretty sure your ceo admitted we had the better scaling solution

>>49988462
>scaling
not really a scaling solution now init

>>49988234
I'm not >>49988217
but let me answer.

I said that Kadena has to sacrifice something for scalability otherwise every other chain would have adopted Chainweb's architecture. Here is what Chainweb/Kadena forsakens for scalability, at least according to link posted.

1. Composability
>Kadena has nearly zero composability and is just a collection of blockchains which run smart contracts independently.

2. Kadena uses Kuro (L2) to scale up to 6 digits TPS. Muh L1 scalability

3. Finality increases with each new shard.

If at the end of the day the team is investigating L2 solutions (Kuro) then clearly it doesn't scale as promised. 20 TPS per chain but finality adds up with every chain and there is no way for contracts on different chains to communicate. How is this useful?
>>49987886
Do you work for Radix kek

>>49988462
>so you don't know what a shard is
Try again
>im not even a harmony shill but you are technically wrong retard https://docs.harmony.one/home/general/technology/sharding
A network that runs 100% of all transactions on shard 0 is not sharded. Bringing up harmony docs is not going to change that. The other shards are not functional.
https://explorer.harmony.one/
Shard 1 2 3 are all empty blocks. They claim this is going to work in the future, but it does not currently scale unlike Kadena which does actually have a live solution.
>also pretty sure your ceo admitted we had the better scaling solution
9 years of vaporware. Doesn't work.

>>49988520
>The other shards are not functional.
non-functional shards are still shards and a network that has more than one shard is sharded irrespective of whether or not they are engaged
retard
>but it does not currently scale
never said it did

>shills for literal what ghostchains start popping up
Bullish. I am stacking more KDA as we speak.

>>49987424
Why is it unheard of for innovation to happen in a field? This applies to not just kadena or crypto. Someone has to think of the idea first, even if it is simple, because other people are clouded by their own work

>>49988516
Kuro came before Chainweb, the team is not investigating anything. Keep in mind you're reading schizophrenic ramblings of a guy that holds literal vaporware.
>Finality increases with each new shard.
Right now to cross the entire network it needs 3 hops, this can increase at most to 7 or 8, but at that point we're at literal/reallife millions of tps. I don't think we will need that much but we can go there.
There is no other network which can compare. And this only goes for massive cross chain tx, each chain still has the same 30s finality and most of the time you're not interacting with more than one.
>Composability
same shit for ethereum L2, Chainweb has the best setup with the lowest over head, no sharing solution has instant Composability to each other shard that is the point, mind you it's still Composable just not withing one block which is what the radish shills claim is NEEDED for defi.
no solution can do this and scale which is why rdx is a scam.

>>49988581
>literal what ghostchains
lmao that is pretty ironic mr samefag

>>49988579
>network that has more than one shard is sharded irrespective of whether or not they are engaged
My car is a rocketship because I have all the parts to convert it into a rocket at home but I'm not going to do it but it's literally still a rocket ship because I said so.

>>49988631
my cars wheels but it only uses one of them therefore i will say the car is monovehicular

>>49988516
>If at the end of the day the team is investigating L2 solutions (Kuro) then clearly it doesn't scale as promised
Kuro isn't something they actually care about.
>and there is no way for contracts on different chains to communicate
Pacts?
https://github.com/kadena-io/pact/blob/master/docs/en/pact-reference.md#asynchronous-transaction-automation-with-pacts-pacts

>>49988579
>non-functional shards are still shards
Inbred. They literally can't be interact with or do anything. In other words, it's not sharded.
Literally the dumbest thing I've read all day. It can't be non functional and still count for anything.

I have a gf, she is just non-functional (doesn't exist) but I have one

>>49988644
>>49988631
Why is Radix competing so hard against Kadena lol, does someone on the team have a grudge against someone on the other team?

>>49988677
Long story, we pissed them off hard and fact is rdx has been vapor for 8 years so until they actually release something it's like a kid trying to fight a grown up

>>49988677
They have a huge grudge because they don't like being called out for claiming to have magic dust and attacking every other chain for not having their magic dust when their magic dust isn't even functional.
I guess that's how his brain decided that Harmony is sharded even if it doesn't work, because it just is okay! Everything works in magic land, as long as it can fud a competitor!

>>49988644
if something has more than one shard, but those shards aren't used does't suddenly mean that that network isn't sharded in as much as a bike that has two wheels but only uses one means that it's a unicycle you drooling ape

>>49988734
They're placeholder shards for when they do invent and implement sharding, which they haven't.
Stop using these analogies, it's literally not sharded.
What if I added 3 trillion disabled chains to Kadena and then didn't use them, would that count has Kadena having 3 gigazillion TPS just because they're there and non-functional? No, you would say that non-functional chains don't count.

In a sense, kadena chains are already there the same way numbers from 0-infinite are always there

>>49988790
>They're placeholder shards
>it's literally not sharded.
you lose
>Stop using these analogies
these analogies are perfect tools to illustrate why your argument is flawed, your problem is that you've conflated function vs. form
>3 trillion disabled chains thought experiment
if chains were shards and kadena only had one shard operative while others were not, i would say that kadena is sharded and all chains but one are non-functional

>>49988908
>>They're placeholder shards
>>it's literally not sharded.
>you lose
They can't be used. It's not sharded. You can't just make sidechains, not use them or implement a method to transact with them, and claim it's sharded.
Your analogy is fucking retarded because it's more like taking a unicycle and putting a wheel on your head and claiming you're a real cycle because you have two wheels.
If you can't use it because it's not invented, it's not there.
>if chains were shards and kadena only had one shard operative while others were not, i would say that kadena is sharded and all chains but one are non-functional
You're a retard.

>>49988935
>You're a retard.
that was a really compelling counter argument thanks for playing

>>49988935
>a real cycle
bicycle*
I'm gonna watch anime this guy is a troll or a complete moron.

>>49983386
don't you dare to fuckiing insult emily

>>49988955
What are we watching tonight babe?

>>49988954
>Ignoring the only actual arguments to focus on the insult.
Thanks for playing.

>>49988965
I'm thinking about something that's a nice escape from reality. Isekai maybe, fantasy, I don't know. Something comfy, but exciting. Not sure what.

I just figured out how to take screenshots from my video player, I am now unstoppable

>>49988980
i just learnt that you can actually use all shards on harmony it's just that all activity takes place on shard 0
so yeah looks like my analogy was perfect and you were wrong

>>49989092
>i just learnt that you can actually use all shards on harmony
sauce?

>>49989097
i made it the fuck up

>>49989092
https://open.harmony.one/strategy-roadmap/launch-dates-weekly-updates/cross-shard-transaction

>>49989112
>cross-shard-transaction

>>49989127
If you cant move shit from one shard to another it's not sharded.

>>49989135
LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

>>49989135
so you DON'T actually know what a shard is
looks like i was right INBRED
>>49988955
yeah this seems like a good idea right about now

>im gonna to help you!
>[54346875 autism messages later]
>n-noo you should move this 0.0078 pixels left
>I mean, there has to be a good reason somewhere why your dapp has to look like a children's website

Make your point already, or help me find an anime.
You can't do shit on H1 that you can't on other chains, it's all shard 0.

>>49989189

>>49987693
Why aren't people rushing to build on Kadena if it fixed the trilemma? Fair point. Sounds all very convincing but where are the users? the dApps?

>>49989280
>Why aren't people rushing to build on Kadena if it fixed the trilemma?
They don't know, they barely know the name let alone what it does.

>If you cant move shit from one shard to another it's not sharded.
>from one shard to another
>it's not sharded.

>>49989299
is Summer Time Rendering worth watching?

>>49989310
no clue but now that dunning kruger retard has been thoroughly dismantled im gonna go and watch it

>>49989197
What looks more profeweisonmslal?

>>49989329
it was the funniest shit but to be fair at the end of the day when the dust has settled ultimately when all is said and done you hold vaporware

>>49989362
you hold a slow rube goldberg machine
our scripting language better than yours already
how does that make you feel?

>>49989395
>how does that make you feel?
feel like I'm also gonna watch the anime now.

the smartest rdx anon I know holds kda because he knows the tech is superior to most L1s but still believes it's not superior to rdx. I think hes retarded so Imagine how you look to me

>>49989299
>>49989329
Shard0 + uselessscamshardsthatcantbeused
Sure, it's sharded alright. ShardUseable and shardUnusableScam1-3.
Very impressive sharding!

>>49989330
Right looks more unique. Left looks cheaper and more generic, but all modern websites do and everything about the internet that I dislike most people seem to like so that's probably the right choice.

>>49989310
12/24 episodes released, hard to binge. Synopsis looks interesting though.

I'm in love

https://anilist.co/anime/97908/Fireworks/
Gonna give this a try.

>>49989418
>Imagine how you look to me
probably like a genius idk man...
>>49989445
>le ad hoc rescue
you owned yourself anon
>>49989092
>>49989112
>>49989127
>>49989135
>>49989299
real self ownage instant playback highlight reel whoa

>>49989445
t-thoughts on fix
looks even more generic but i dont see how right is somehow unique

>>49989499
explain to me how you are not a literal criminal for shilling a literal scam

>>49989522
i could ask you the same thing scammer

>>49989532
my shit works. sheesh.

>>49989499
Claiming that it's sharded when you can't even use them is just retarded.

>>49989516
You keep deleting everything and I refresh so I can't see what the difference is.

>>49989522
Imouto...

>>49989492
>Meanwhile, one of the boys, Norimichi, receives an invitation from his crush Nazuna to run away with her.
fuck I think I'm gonna switch to this now

>>49988644
>Kuro isn't something they actually care about.
I think they at least did care about it at some point. It seems rather useful to have a ready-made l2 solution for confirmation speed and privacy.

KDABet main dev was praising it in a recent YouTube vid because unlike Marmalade it has proper documentation. They are building classic order books where people (bots) will update hundreds of bids in real-time, while hiding who is bidding what until it's time to publish the bets on the public blockchain.

https://youtu.be/A-rgzIwDYgI

>>49989618
KDABET is a fucking reeeeeeeetard

>>49989565
d-didnt realize how diametrically opposite everyones taste are
seems i wont lunch anything afterall

>>49989698
If you want success just do the opposite of what I like. I have the weirdest and least likeable opinions.

>>49989742
short or long hair?

>>49989618
>we have the best ux designer in the world
what is the point of even listening to salesmen

>>49989747
Really depends on the girl, but I think a bit longer than shoulders is nice, but if the girl's frame and face is cute enough shorter hair starts being very reasonable.

>>49989645
Yeh, they started learning pact like a month ago. I do believe they have been thinking about building on _something like_ Kadena for a long time, but the dude occasionally throws in some subtle hyperbole

>>49989742
i-i dont want to succeed

>>49989867
Ah alright, then copy xmrchain.net for best design practices. It just works.

>>49989766
Why do people actually care about infodump webpages? This is not the dApp

Girls I can't get rid of my fungal nail my life is over

>>49989565
>when you can't even use them
niggerbrain anon i'm trying to be patient here you can use them >>49989092 it's just that no USES any shard but shard 0
do you concede now bitch? bitch? bitch? bitch?

>>49989910
copium

>>49989933
>you can use them
sauce? How can you use them?

>>49989933
>shard 2
KEK LOOK AT THOSE TIMESTAMPS

>>49989964

so is everyone itt a loser even non-kda holders? that's crazy

ZlA8eH+h)
s-stop posting things like this

>>49989964
Often called “hara-kiri” in the West, “seppuku” is a form of ritual suicide that originated with Japan's ancient samurai warrior class. The grisly act typically involved stabbing oneself in the belly with a short sword, slicing open the stomach and then turning the blade upwards to ensure a fatal wound.

https://twitter.com/ercwl/status/1541182405557592065
crypto is kill

>>49990124
it's true though

>>49985233
Is there more than 6 people working on this?

>>49990154
two of them quit and one died (stuart haber) so actually there are now only 3 people working on it.

>>49990153
t-talking about normie guro stuff

>>49990167
Thanks anon- these projects are too ambitious to succeed with three people. An l1 seems to need dozens- I don’t want to start a war, but for instance Dfinity has about 230 people, verified and highly decorated in this space

>>49990221
>Dfinity has about 230 people,
Very true anon! so what did those 230 people do exactly? make a shitty website hosting platform on a shitty PoS chain?

>>49990148
Getting dunked on by an autistic Radix troll means that you can no longer participate in Kadena threads.

>>49990234
I’m not an Icp shill so I’m not going to get into it- you raging retard- I said as much on my previous post- although I think these very advanced novel products like an L1 requires a lot of man power.
You, being a fucking loser probably don’t understand project to man hours worked- you simply can’t do a project that requires 100 people with 3. You just can’t no matter how AMAZING (fag) you think these fucking kadena devs are

>>49990399
I might a loser but at least I am not a loser who can't use google

>>49990380
I actually agree, this is far too humiliating.
I'm gonna close the thread.

>>49990426
64 fucking posts by this goddamn retard.
How much money did you put in to this garbage and how much do you have now. So sound like a simping baggie doing anything to make your shitcoin sound better-

>>49990447
Fireworkz bad, It was alright but then she started singing and then she says she wants to stay with him but she say just picked the guy arbitrarily and baqsically it's fucking bullshit and where is my romance kinooooooooooooo
>>49990517
are you mad that you fell for my 3 employee meme? lol lmao

>>49990153
s-rssly delet it itsnotfunny

>>49990601
I'm gonna kms

>>49990620

>>49990528
Yes, I’m mad- I’d like to see all KDA faggots lose all their money- and that was going to extradite it.

Now post the amount you have in to this shitchain so I can screen cap it.

What's the sui stack?

>>49990675
I'm still up by at least 300% or more I stopped counting after 6 digidits
>>49990816
777 kda

>>49990380
>>49990447
ok im gonna be honest i lied when i posted >>49989092
i knew from the start i just wanted to string you along and make you say it over and over again to make the own sweeter
ultimately none of this matters and i am bored as hell

>>49982937
>if kadena solved the scaling trilemma
You should have a long think about the role "if" plays in your post.

>>49991147
>he's still hung up on that
move on my guy

>>49991208
>cheerleader friend demoralized after seeing his friend get rekt
i literally just said it didnt matter but you first babe

>>49984391
It looks like a scam. I open the "overview" page on their docs and the first paragraph is a short unimpressive cv of the founders, followed by a bunch of dubious airy fairy claims.
>Kadena is the only platform offering a complete decentralized infrastructure for builders.
Shut the fuck up lmao

>>49991235
>get rekt
>babe
You're cringe like me so I should offer some sympathy but you're kind of a cunt too so I don't feel too bad
>>49991166
>>49991272
Read the thread

>>49991280
>Read the thread
The thread has no bearing on their docs being shit and cringe. Also, I forgot that name squatting is a thing on it. Bad design.

>>49991272
lol I just read this post, you have some crazy research skills I give you that.
Extremely biased, you came in with the intent to shit on it and that's what you're doing.

>>49991333
>I forgot that name squatting is a thing on it. Bad design.
That was solved a year ago, are you trying to tell me ethereum never had a part be badly designed?

>>49991280
>but you're kind of a cunt too
lol why because some overweening retard who spent 10+ posts being completely wrong about harmony one got blown the fuck out in the end? who cares man get over it
lol you're so sensitive! relax, stop being such a brainlet (you can't :3)

>>49988644
>>and there is no way for contracts on different chains to communicate
>Pacts?
>https://github.com/kadena-io/pact/blob/master/docs/en/pact-reference.md#asynchronous-transaction-automation-with-pacts-pacts

How does that answer my question? Is there or is there not atomic composability on Chainweb? And if there isn't, isn't that a big problem?

>>49991333
w-what smart-contract platform can we use outside kadena/pact? theyre all so underwhelming

>>49991477
holy shit anon no one cares about your fight
>>49991485
Across chains? I don't think there is although you can make something that resembles it iirc.
>isn't that a big problem?
you tell me, just a few min ago you had no idea it was even a thing
>>49991508
keep talking

>>49991515
>holy shit anon no one cares about your fight
dude stop crying ok? i said it didnt matter you're the one making a big deal out of it!

>>49991515
>I don't think there is
you know there isn't you fucking kike :3

>>49991537
I bet you're fun irl

>>49991550
g-go back

>>49991553
you are worthless and have been abandoned by everyone in your life etc. etc. blah blah blah
BORING say something interesting

>>49991550
there is https://medium.com/kadena-io/the-future-of-multichain-828a2547b697

>>49991563
have you been told that so many times that it doesn't phase you anymore? Serious question.

>>49991564
nested pacts are neither atomic nor "atomic" and suggesting otherwise is a marketing lie
in fact kda9 of our beloved cryptopedia talks about it

"https://medium.com/kadena-io/the-future-of-multichain-828a2547b697

"Thus, what looks like two unrelated transactions actually form a single “atomic” pair that are guaranteed to succeed."
That's the best part of the Kadena article. If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck it is probably a duck even if you call it a dog .
There are asynchronous simple token transfers which can't fail, so you could consider them atomic in a broad sense .
However, in case of all other DeFi relevant smart contracts the described cross-shard transactions are definitely not atomic (not in a narrow or broad sense). These are just lined up sequential smart contract executions with error handling in the intermediate state but these are in no sense atomic. Like @tesslerc stated if an intermediate execution fails you are left with the partial execution and tokens you never wanted. With no option to rollback, because e.g. the price of the pool in the first chain changed.
(@Blind5ight btw these cross-shard swaps have multi block latency but the issues even start before taking this into consideration)"

>>49991580
explain why it needs to be atomic. same chain tx can be atomic so why do cross chain tx need to be atomic?
fact is they don't and the only reason you think they have to be is because you think you network can do it and that's that makes it better than all the other networks when in reality it's a decade old grift that will never scale in practice because the only way to scale is to make a system that keeps cross chain tx non atomic.

>>49991608
>explain why it needs to be atomic
explaining how nested pacts aren't was sufficient enough
also lol that giant "we have it... ok we don't have it but EXPLAIN WHY IT'S NEEDED *handwave* *dismissal*" spiel
>>49991564

>>49991636
The term "sharding", as used in transactional databases, usually refers to partitioning of the data such that the business logic doesn't require atomic cross-shard transactions. So, complaining that a sharding system doesn't support (efficient) atomic cross-shard composability seems absurd to me.

>>49991654
That is false; the term "sharding", as used in both generalized and transactional database nomenclature broadly refers to a horizontal partitioning of discrete units of data for which a database's {A}CID-compliance neither precludes nor qualifies a "sharded" state.
In fact, the concept is wholly ACID-agnostic.

anything else?

>>49991654
guess who i got that reply from btw

>>49991671
>scemantics
Jesus christ anon really? The consequences of being sharded or not are however the ability for ACID transactions. Sure they are not qualifies for the term sharded, but they are direct consequences of being sharded.
>>49991692
I am physically cringing, reply to >>49991579
>>49991741
I am NOT surprised.

That was really embarrassing for you because I know for a fact that you think your buzzword mean something when they actually didn't mean anything.

Recap because I'm bored.

>me post copy paste explaining that sharding means that atomic cross chain tx can't work
>retard posts copy paste saysing "that's not literally what the word sharding means" in convoluted speach
>retard feels really confident
>makes 3 posts in a row

:3

>>49991757
>trying to diminish an argument by claiming its just semantics
you appear to be on your back foot
>he consequences of being sharded or not are however the ability for ACID transaction
no it isn't because you can perform ACID intra-shard, in a non-sharded system
you are wrong
>Sure they are not qualifies for the term sharded
would you like to repeat that in english
>but they are direct consequences of being sharded.
no they aren't
>I am NOT surprised.
what

>>49991818
>what
because that guy is an idiot and doesn't know what he's talking about so I wasn't surprised when he didn't directly give you a counter but instead a reply that sounds smart to anyone not actually reading (you)

>>49982937
Still no dapps is a problem. What's going on with this chain? why are there so many chains where the ecosystem isn't fully deployed? I'm so fucking confused

>>49991799
counter-recap to destroy your damage control

>you post dumbass non-sequitur argument from a developer that's not only specious but also wrong
>i post correction to dumbass non-sequitur
>you feel compelled to damage control
>i make 3 posts in a row

>>49991850
>correction to dumbass non-sequitur
You posted a joke.

The post explained that X is a consequence of Y but in a way that made it sound like that is what Y is
Your post said no X isn't in the literal definition of Y as if this was an argument in the slightest.
You said nothing, literally nothing.

Yet felt smug as fuck.

>>49991886
actually you said Y was a corollary of X such that one cannot exist without the other in state Z
where Z isn't actually a necessary componant of either Y or X, which your post propounded was true but was in fact false

>>49991886
>The term "sharding", as used in transactional databases, usually refers to partitioning of the data such that the business logic doesn't require atomic cross-shard transactions.
this is the part that isn't true in the slightest and any RDBM engineer would laugh at that

>>49991955
So it's not true and you can "just" do atomic cross shard transactions? Clearly that is a lie, execution of cross-shard transactions require some coordination mechanism among the participating shards.

>>49991955
>any RDBM engineer would laugh at that
They would tell you that need a two phase commit in a normal database, so clearly he is right

>>49991991
>doesn't require
these are the operative words
>execution of cross-shard transactions require some coordination mechanism among the participating shards.
among participating validators or in the RDBM sense, data stores or "nodes", not shards

>>49991955
>partitioning of the data such that the business logic doesn't require
wait nvm why is he saying doesn't require

>>49992032
>>doesn't require
>these are the operative words
I see now, odd way to say it and odd that I didn't pick up on it sooner.
Even weirder how you didn't mention it sooner.

>>49992037
you are a fucking retard seriously
abandon your own thread

>>49992079
We are the same level of retarded, only difference is I am right at the end of the day when the dust has settled

but I'd hope I'm not the same level of cringe because that was real bad earlier

>>49992085
you're never going to use that dumb copypasta again after this, aren't you?

>>49992120
The term "sharding", as used in transactional databases, usually implies that the execution of cross-shard transactions require some coordination mechanism among the participating nodes. Most existing sharding schemes use 2PC to atomically execute cross-shard transactions.. So, complaining that a sharding system doesn't support (efficient) atomic cross-shard composability seems absurd to me.

>>49992156
damn you're stubborn as you are dumb which is slightly less than you are cringe but is doubly so more than me on all counts

>>49992176
good night radish fren

>>49992183
good night and you owe that guy an apology

>>49991515
>you tell me, just a few min ago you had no idea it was even a thing
Most chains I've interacted with had no need for it because they were single chains?

https://stackoverflow.com/questions/tagged/pact-lang?tab=newest&page=4&pagesize=15

There's only 4 pages of posts with regards to Pact on stackoverflow lol. Do you have any devs at all?

>>49992459
>49 = 4

>>49992542
49 questions spread over 4 pages... yeah
>>49991600
So let me get this straight. It's like Bitcoin blockchain but instead of increasing the block size they'd rather add another chain and so on (as demand surges). But there is a different token balance on each chain and there is a limited way for the chains to communicate with each other via Pact. Do you think Pact can be improved to allow for Defi smart contracts or is this an absolute limitation?

>>49992156
also one last thing because i know you're reading this fag boy
>Most existing sharding schemes use 2PC
not sharding scheme, it would be a commit protocol so you actually just mean "distributed system" instead. also don't even know if that's true because many systems use 3PC
>So, complaining that a sharding system doesn't support (efficient) atomic cross-shard composability seems absurd to me.
you actually just said most """"sharding schemes"""" use 2pc for cross-shard atomicity then said it's absurd to complain about a system that doesn’t support it even though most do
fucking kek
>49992542
he said "pages" not "questions"
are you ok idiot? lemme guess just p-pretending to be retarded? ^^
>>49992648
>Do you think Pact can be improved
no can be replaced with scrypto which is the next best thing i guess

>>49992761
>lemme guess just p-pretending to be retarded? ^^
i-i dont reply to bigots

>>49992761
I think Brave tracks us. as soon as I read your post this ad appeared. wtf

Why would Scrypto be a better smart contract language than Pact? It sounds even more obscure.

>>49992944
>>49992939
Why isn't Kadena marketing webinars and stuff for Pact? Would sure help their cause.

>>49992944
>Why would Scrypto be a better smart contract language than Pact?
https://www.radixdlt.com/blog-category/scrypto-developers

but read these two really:
https://www.radixdlt.com/post/radix-engine-v2-an-asset-oriented-smart-contract-environment

https://www.radixdlt.com/post/scrypto-an-asset-oriented-smart-contract-language

>>49983190

for all newfags out there Trubit solves this kek

>>49993017
Yikes another retarded radix dbanon

bunch of tranny nonsense in every thread
astounding you faggots never learn how to properly communicate on 4ch in fucking 2022

>>49995123
b-based

I'm a literal retard can someone just summarize this thread and tell me whether or not to buy this shit.

>>49995325
Summary: KDA anon doesnt know what sharding is. XRD anon is shilling a vaporware scam.

Conclusion: Buy neither of these shitcoins and stack ETH

>>49982937
imagine if btc suddenly had the block size raised and made lightning network unnecessary, it would finally compete with mastercard and visa and blockstream would be redundant
that's why btc still doesn't do anything and bsv is fudded to shit
>>49984272
there is at least one guy that's competent behind kadena - stuart haver or something, he is referenced in the bitcoin whitepaper i think, he worked at bell labs and invented shit
it's still a shitcoin though

>>49995346
I would believe you but you're an ETH maxi

watching kadena shills vs radix shills is so fucking funny

>>49996183
Im actually not an ETH maxi. But if you're a retard and cant tell which one is better. Buy ETH

>>49982937
I thought Kadena's tech was really cool, but there's a huge drawback. The way they effectively subsidise lower gas fees is exorbitantly high emissions. The kadena supply will literally triple ~2028. I wonder what the true transaction fee would be without all those emissions, but I don't think anyone who wants to preserve their purchasing power would invest into something that triples the currency supply within a decade. Also I tried to check out the code for Pact and the documentation for Hello World wasn't even fixed. Maybe this was fixed as it was a few months ago, but I think it's a step in the right direction, although it's not the final solution.

>>49996349
>fee would be without all those emissions
That's not how it works, fees on eth wouldn't be cheap if the supply inflated by 100%
High inflation is important for security, which is then driving value, mostly well over 3x.
Even still, Avax had 70% inflation last year
>>49992761
I am not a fag boy
>even though most do fucking kek
It's absurd to support atomic instant one block pee pee poo poo cross chain
Most do support 2pc which is also what Pact can do
>>49992962
soon TM
>>49995346
/thread

>>49992648
>So let me get this straight. It's like Bitcoin blockchain but instead of increasing the block size they'd rather add another chain
Much like L2 or and other Sharding design ever proposed. If you don't understand why this isn't big blocks just go and buy boomer stocks
>But there is a different token balance on each chain
Much like L2 or and other Sharding design ever proposed.
>and there is a limited way for the chains to communicate with each other via Pact.
You literally have no idea what limited means, just because it can't do something that no other scalable platform can do doesn't mean it's limited. Let me repeat, no scalable platform will ever allow for this type of transaction (a atomic tx with no extra steps)
Other than literally doing magic, it's one of the best languages for DeFi and cross chain executions.
>to allow for Defi smart contracts or is this an absolute limitation?
It already allows for complex defi smart contracts
>Do you think Pact can be improved
abso-fucking-lutely, most anons here talked to the lead dev of Pact and they know that there is a lot to improve. It's their whole job.
One example would be to allow for different syntax so it's more like python than lisp

>>49997052
>most anons here talked to the lead dev of Pact
Also no questions about this please.

>>49991654
>"The term sharding refers to considerations about structural features of shard-network topology"
It doesn't, >>49991671 is correct, the term in itself is blind to this ambit, even if it is true that distributed systems are engineered as described for the purpose that post purports.

>>49997435
Yes it doesn't literally mean that, the quote is from a german eng who is known for being better at writing code than sentences. Read the thread we have been through this.

>>49982937
Childlessness and what's worse, abortions, lead to accelerated aging is what I had witnessed. I'm already laughing at the liberal roasties who fell for jewish lies and will look like 60 when they are 30. Eventually they look worse than trannies.

ZlA8eH+h
s-still traumatized by image you posted yesterday
really dont understand why u do dis to me

>>49997897
I command you to feel better

>>49997520

t-thats it
never opening 4ch*n ever again

>>49982937
so where is the data stored.

The faster and cheaper the TPS just means more data, where is it and how do u snyc the nodes.

This killed eos.

>>49984391
>trying to hide it

>>49998682
Nodes, but instead of having a giga node like EOS it's actually sharded. Ethereum tried to do something like that but that didn't work so now they went with danksampling which is basically spreading the blocks across 50k nodes and trying to form one big block over sampling them lol.
Kadena is simple in this regard because you can run each chain of the network on a seperate node, imagine a 1000 chain network, and imagine there was no way to run all of it on a single node, this is the problem most system are facing. The trick with kda is that you can split them up and have 500 chains run on one node (located anywhere in the world btw) and 500 on another, spreading resources and most importantly bandwidth.

>>49986122
TPS is only a meme because marketing makes people count TPS with those subnets/shards/whatever, if only there were a network which achieved high TPS in a single shard...

>>49999429
>high TPS in a single shard
Vertical scaling is a scam

>>49999600
I meant in addition to horizontal scaling of course, but base tps matters a lot more than people care to admit, given congestions usually happen because of one shard usually

>>50001124
>given congestions usually happen because of one shard usually
You have literally no data on this since this has never been tested (because something like kda with a solid multi chain managing dapp+wallet has never existed)
Stop talking out of your ass

>>50000000

>>49999999
>>50000001

Fuck I have to buy 1 btc now

>>50001154
definitely true, I apologize, I'm sure it will run without any concurrency whatsoever since everything will be spread out evenly. users usually behave that way in every economic system.

>>50001291
>users usually behave that way in every economic system.
See https://www.kdaresearch.info/general-topics/sharding
Your wallet will do it automatically dipshit

It will have to, or it's either
>use shitty wallet that doesn't have cross chain abstraction and manually move shit around
>download simple wallet that does it for you

kadena?
more like dumpena
lol lmao!

>>50001309
I wonder how that works with liquidity pools
>POW odesn't
tell someone to fix this typo btw

>>50001571
>I wonder how that works with liquidity pools
https://medium.com/kadena-io/the-future-of-multichain-828a2547b697
look for >Real-world example: cross-chain DEX swap

>tell someone to fix this typo btw
fixed :)

did emily straight up left kadena's dumpster fire?

>>49984391
*gulps loudly* Fuck, that is hot.

The only way to get a girl like this is to get in great shape yourself.

>>50001628
She came back at the beginning of this year, she's very excited

>>50001686

>x, [26/06/2022 22:30]
>[In reply to x]
>Its not. But even other crypto exchanges dont use floor price to any token

>x, [26/06/2022 22:35]
>CM is very innovative

lol

>>50001749
That's not patty, retard

>>50002237
It was the only slightly related thing I could post so I did

>>49997897
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2LolnebPYI

i-is Stuart Haber jewish?

who will win the next bull run Kadena or Radix?

>>49988900
So does this increase in chains happen automatically at a certain point?

>>50003140
i wish he was, but he is just retarded instead
>>>50000000

>>50003725
There would be problems if it did, the way this happens is through a rather simple hardfork, any dev/ or the team obviously, sets it into motion and miners agree to use it. (and they will always want to do that because more tps = more money in fees)
I'd like to see how it's going to be organized in the future though

>>49989280
It's hard enough to write smart contracts without critical bugs. Let's dump the complexity of distributed state management (i.e. sharding) on devs as well, that will surely increase code quality.

>>50004321
What is the alternative? make them invent their own chain and deal not just with code quality but also running a bridge, an L1 and making sure their PoS network doesn't get assfucked. Or perhaps just use eth and have fees ruin your entire company?

>oh nooo you have to make your dapp work multi chain for the benefit of infinite scalability nooo it shouldn't be this way!
It's where the entire industry is literally heading any way. Your post is a jab against all of crypto.

> against all of crypto.
nvm, more like against the entire fucking internet

>>50004408
Just use one of the many established PoS systems that stood the test of time, like Algorand. There is no need to scale infinitely, 46k TPS is probably enough for every conceivable blockchain use case. Kadena goes into the weeds of theoretical purity, but practicality alwas wins in the end.

>>50004546
algorand 1. can't scale, solana has proven that a single chain no matter how many blocks will hit a limit at 1k tps. Futhermore 2. isn't decentralized, there are about 106 actual relay nodes, it's a permissioned system. 3. is not secure, it only takes 33% of the supply to fuck up the network. 4. is a scam (because I say so)

>>49995425
take note everyone, this the midwit of crypto