/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>49983674
>dude just learn to code
>these salaries will NEVER go down!
kek.

>>49983674
Those demographics..

>>49983686

See pic related. It can take up to 3 months. This is one of at least a 100 things you need to learn.

At worst, salaries go down to other engineer salaries.

>>49983686
i'm already putting downward pressure on these Diversity Hire salaries. fuck this low IQ bullshit.
i am exceptionally good at understanding imperfect english, so our company is successful using foreign employees, who are excellent programmers but have english as a second language and maybe aren't so hot at it yet. in US dollars their salaries are great where they live, but cheap to us, and if this ever changes it will be in their favor to just start businesses in their own countries. we lose nothing (i can do all of it myself once the products mature) and they gain everything. total win-win.

>>49983857
unironically my work has signed me up to do this, the sysops admin associate, devops admin professional then the data and security specialities. i'm already a splunk architect and i'm working through the red hat administrator, terraform associate and jenkins engineer courses.

>>49983922

That's what people don't get about IT - learning all this fucking bullshit nonstop. Truth be told, a lot of these certs are useless. I will maybe use 5% of the AWS shit, IF I end up on an AWS project.

That's why FAGMAN might be the way to go - the interview is like one of these exams, but after that, they don't care if you get all this bullshit, because AWS/GCP/Azure exams are just an ad for the service...that costs money and takes 3 months.

>>49983942
company i work for are partners with aws and use terraform/ansible/jenkins for cloud automation so it's all related to stuff i do day in day out. the certs are basically for 2 things: 1. if i have them then i look qualified so my company can charge our customers more for my time and 2. i look more qualified so linkedin recruiters are more likely to spam me with higher paid postings.

>>49983922
>>49983942

What I am really saying is that the more certs a job requires, the more cucked you are.

Like base HelpDesk requires a ton of certs. Flyover dev jobs via shitty headhunter agencies require a ton of certs.

FAGMAN doesn't care. White hat only requires one cert ever.

>>49983988

Does AWS not have its own build pipeline? Azure has Azure Dev Ops and their own version of Git, so you push code to Azure Repositories and Azure Pipelines picks them up, runs tests, and deploys.

I used Jenkins before but I didn't realize it was a "default" for AWS.

>>49983674
You know what comes next right?

>"Too many black and brown kids are failing computer science"
>"CS is racist"
>"White men with CS degrees forced out of the field"
>technological collapse

/pol/ was right

>>49983686
>DUDE JUST LEARN STEM
>DUDE JUST LEARN A TRADE
>DUDE JUST BECOME A LAWYER, DOCTOR, ENGINEER, OR PROGRAMMER
>DUDE JUST BECOME SELF EMPLOYED
>DUDE JUST BECOME AN ENGINEER OR PROGRAMMER
>DUDE JUST BECOME A PROGRAMMER

The manosphere may be dead, but their retarded advice has ruined an entire generation of men

don't care.

you can't literally code if your IQ is lower than 120.
not possible.

All those retarded students that enroll quit literally after fucking calculus I and linear algebra.

Good luck trying to lower requeriments to that without making it a glorified bootcamp degree.

At some point the influx of really crappy coders will simply mean some BS post graduate degree will be the new college degree and basic CS be as worthless as a HS diploma.

So nothing really happens.

I've come to the conclusion than 97% of the world population gets filtered with calculus I and linear algebra.

>>49984004
AWS codepipeline. The good thing os Jenkins is all the addons it has and that you can connect and run anything. Jenkins is not AWS.

>>49984093

A lot of coders don't have degrees. Hundies can probably code, it's just a lot more challenging to them.

Ironically, if you don't do fancy shit and keep your code clean, it becomes low-IQ friendly. And you *should* be doing that.

>>49983989
true, but i guess the more certs you have the wider the range of roles you can do? mostly certs are just a way of differentiating yourself from the millions of others out there with CS degrees. like a recruiter has no idea how good or bad i actually am at writing terraform code cause they've never met me, but if i have the cert i can at least prove i know the subject well enough to pass an exam in it.

>>49984004
it does, it has code commit as a repo then use code deploy or pipeline to deploy it. i think the idea behind using terraform and jenkins/ansible was they're provider agnostic due to modules so we in theory could migrate away from aws to gcp or azure without needing to change our terraform code that much, whereas if we were full integrated in aws it'd be harder to leave.

>>49983674
>half of them are asians
>underrepresented in CS

Why not use that money for a medical degree or some you can't learn on udemy

>>49983857
>>49983922
>>49983942
>tfw u work FOR aws and don't have any of these certs.
maybe its just for software engineers but certs are sort of a meme for us.

>>49984111

> id
> repeating ints

Well, at least someone in this thread is going to make it.

>>49984093
>that arrogant codenigger who thinks you need to be a genius to understand statements and loops
>muh crappy coders
>muh 120 IQ genius
>muh clean code
>muh DS&A
hey retard, everything in this fake and gay world is the minimum viable product. no one cares about your autistic skillset. it doesn't matter. what matters is how quickly a barely functioning product can get out the door to be sold by the sales team, and how little your jewish overlords can pay you to do that. if you pay attention to the trends in software development i.e. greater reliance on frameworks and libraries and less reliance on 'reinvesting the wheel' with inhouse development tools, you'll see this is self-evident. the number of CS grads, H1Bs, and bootcampers is through the roof. entry level is saturated. mid-level will soon be saturated as development tools advance as reduce the amount of skill required to hammer out some piece of shit that just barely works. the writing is on the wall. reskill before it's too late.

>>49984072
STEM is almost entirely dead, some fields of engineering and CS are the only parts that are still halfway decent. Meanwhile, the trades were only ever a realistic option if your cousin Vito works for the pipefitters union (because as an apprentice he let his boss fit his pipe inside him). There is a huge glut of people waiting to get trained as electricians, plumbers, etc and now a huge glut of people from every asscrack of the earth trying to become brogrammers

>>49984072
What's the alternative

>>49983759
we're doomed

>>49984113
>>49984152
I'm 100% sure I am the person you mention.

I didn't get a coding degree but I am 128-130IQ, so I'm likely to do fine with not kowing math.

But my needs are basically learning enough CS to use a game engine.
Which is literally the easiest shit ever.

I tried to learn something as basic as copypasting tensorflow code to make a GAN and was automatically filtered, even if I have 5 years coding games using game engines.
Likely mostly because of my lack of experience.

And mostly because I haven't read books on tensorflow.
Even with me trying to copy paste shit from google collab from a tutorial to make a cycleGAN, FILTERED ME, because most fucking shit tier tutorials use legacy libraries that just don't compile on google collab.

And I'm literally the perfect guy you mention that would dumb down the degree.
Still was filtered hard because something as basic as following tutorials in tensorflow requires a fucking CS education and knowing math.

It doesn't matter how much you dumb down the field, calculus I and linear algebra will filter more than 90% of the population.

It's basically the blue collar farm manual labor kind of job but for intelligence.

>>49984158
there is none. this is your post-industrialized, highly specialized labor, globalist world.

>>49983857
>At worst, salaries go down to other engineer salaries.
There is literally zero reason why this would be the case. First of all, it's not fucking """"""engineer""""" ing at all and you are a retard if you think it is. Secondly, CS is not connected with engineering like that. I can see why an outsider might think there's some logic to your post since CS is often used in engineering and there can be a bit of crossover sometimes but when talking about salaries and careers it's a completely different thing entirely.

There is absolutely zero reason why engineering salary (which is also falling btw) would be a bottom for CS salary. In actuality, in a world based on merit average engineering salaries should be the general ceiling/top of CS salaries. CS is programming, it is not engineering, it is not science, it is a generally low brow and technical skill, it is not suited for the dumbest people but also not for the smartest people.

>>49983759
>>49984171
doesn't matter.

98% of those women will quit after first year.
And YOU CANT DUMB DOWN THIS SHIT.

IT'S ALREADY FUCKING DUMBED DOWN.

>>49984120

>we in theory could migrate away from aws to gcp or azure without needing to change our terraform code that much, whereas if we were full integrated in aws it'd be harder to leave.

This is an argument for K8S too, and it's complete bullshit. I am yet to see a SINGLE company that needed to move to a different cloud. Kroger, in theory, would need to move off of AWS when Amazon started competing in the grocery business, but they were already on Azure. Not arguing with you, just saying it's bullshit that gets spread around.

Terraform needs to be modified for provider specific resources anyway - like you tell Terraform you need a VM with x CPU and y RAM it won't know how to do an EC2 / Azure App Service / GCP Compute Engine without specific configs.

I am just ranting because I don't use these exams for shit, but I agree with "but if i have the cert i can at least prove i know the subject well enough to pass an exam in it.". Good for covering your ass.

>>49984129

>maybe its just for software engineers but certs are sort of a meme for us.

Right, I work with FAGMANs a lot and none of them have certs. Basically the idea in fagman is that you can pick up any stack. It's a lie, but it's convenient.

>>49984152

There is something called working memory correlated with IQ - basically low Qs can't keep enough items in mind to understand what a function with multiple params does, where it's called, what the return type is, ESPECIALLY if people are doing MUH FUNCTIONAL and passing around callbacks.

>the writing is on the wall. reskill before it's too late.

As I said, I think the 80k engi jobs will be there, but year, not doctor-tier salaries.

>>49984157

I think bio might have a resurgence. I know bio guys getting $130,000 offers. That may sound like peanuts to CS fags, but other engis besides petroleum were stuck in the 70-80k range for ages.

>>49984158
>>49984203

I think that's true - "Get assets before it's too late."

>>49984129
I also work for AWS and have zero certs. Certs are 90% a waste of time and I absolutely refuse. The only people who really care are government agencies and consulting shops who dangle certs in front of clients.

women get filtered hard by entry level math, so don't fucking care about how many flooded memes you make.

t. experience from some semesters at CS major.

>>49984113
>Hundies can probably code, it's just a lot more challenging to them.
Lots of them can't think on multiple levels of abstraction, or deal with self-referential data structures/recursion/etc. When you get one into a job interview and ask for anything involving trees or graphs (e.g. "here's a tree of folders and files, print the whole thing to the terminal like so", "now show the total size of the files in each folder, including all subfolders, even deeply nested ones", except adjusted so it's not identical to whatever is on leetcode) it becomes obvious.

>>49984218
>And YOU CANT DUMB DOWN THIS SHIT.

wrong. languages, frameworks, libraries, development environments, and debugging tools get easier, better, and more normie friendly every year.

>>49984218
it can always get worse
there will be next to no innovation and every existing product will be maintained by these people, ensuring complete degradation of quality

>>49984266
this is very true
I do malware analysis and I won't lie, Ghidra does the bulk of the work for me. I just need to know where to set breakpoints and a few other things.

I can promise you about 2 semester in, 65% of them switched majors and by the end of the program another 10% will be gone. Of the remaining group only 4 will be A-B students and the rest nearly clinging into c- or a d. That's how it's going in my comp sci class in community colleges I'll give the girls props for all 3 of them being high up in the class while their orbiters scrape by.

>>49984197

I got filtered on ML hard too if it makes you feel any better. Ib4 people who get the "concepts" like local optima and adversarial frameworks. Not the same.

>>49984214

Make a coherent argument. I am literally a CFA, have a bachelors in Mech Eng, and do CS atm. I think CS is in both more demand and more demanding than Mech E and finance.

>>49984258
bro what are you talking about with this math and IQ stuff? People who keep talking about math and IQ in relation to computer science generally don't understand any of them. I have never met an intelligent person who routinely brought up iq. Computer science has basically nothing to do with math, except maybe the very basics.

>>49984291
>Make a coherent argument. I am literally a CFA, have a bachelors in Mech Eng, and do CS atm. I think CS is in both more demand and more demanding than Mech E and finance.
I didn't argue against that, I didn't say that would be a bad idea. I said other engineering disciplines are not some floor for CS salaries which could easily crash.

>>49984305
codeniggers love to pretend you need to be a math genius to COOOOOODE. meanwhile the vast majority of CS jobs are systems or web dev which require nothing beyond algebra and trigonometry -- and they'll likely use a library to do this, rather than waste time and money to re-write a library inhouse and suffer the pain of maintaining it.

>>49984258
>experience from some semesters at CS major.

Wait... did you get filtered?

Are you a woman?

>>49983686
only true for pajeet level coding

>>49984266
>>49984271
t. someone that hasn't tried to follow a tensorflow tutorial and is talking shit he doesn't know.

>>49984357
>tensorflow
ML/AI jobs are the vast minority of all software jobs and they are usually restricted to candidates with MS or PhDs, utterly irrelevant to this discussion. even so, the majority of real world ML/AI work is a scam that is utterly reliant on frameworks and libraries which further proves my point that the field has been dumbed down and will continue to be dumbed down.

>>49984357
plugging numbers into an interface isn't programming you dumdum

>>49984093
it isn't that hard to simply "learn to code" but being a capable programmer is a different thing and overwhelmingly people, particularly women, just can't do it and this will never change
degrees are already less important than experience and a portfolio proving you can work

>>49984305
>>49984332
wait, are we talking about CS degrees or just code nigger SE bootcamp niggers?

because I'm likely in the second field and I don't consider myself a CS major.

>>49984334
No, CS is a meme to be a game developer.

>>49984266 see >>49984265. There are some flyover $50,000 dev jobs that just need to string libraries together, but people who can't do whats listed in >>49984265 do get filtered by any decent interview.

>>49984251

This is the truth. Makes me feel like a complete cuck because I get the certs. Despite the memes, I work like 10 hour days and will be grinding certs all day today...like yesterday.

>>49984326

My argument is that engi has inherent difficulty filters and they apply to CS, forming a floor.

>>49984332

This is true, but as you get up there you do start needing to understand how computers work, which at the very least requires understanding base 2/8/etc math.

>>49984373
that's data science, NOT CS.

retarded niggers.

>>49984374
that's pretty much 90% of current shit CS majors are doing.

>inb4 webdev
>inb4 data science
>inb4 bootcamps
those aren't CS

>>49984375
man, women get excited over how much money CS people make, only to get filtered by first year CS math.

In my experience 90% of software engineer work is understanding the arbitrary eccentricities of different frameworks and existing codebases and trying to connect them together to do something. Each new addition builds upon the previous addition and what you get is this giant, ever increasing Rube Goldberg machine that requires ever more engineers who specialize in working with different parts of the machine.

>>49984426
software engineering is not CS.

niggers.

CS is literally math research.

>>49984029
>>49984152
I don’t understand why you are all worried so much. In their hearts most brown people just want to serve a white man. So, lead them.

>>49984464
>he doesn't know

>>49984474
yes, there's likely millions of genius level indians right now.

dumbass.

>>49984197
>I dont need math to use a game engine
Toplel.

>>49984474
SIR DO NOT REDEEM THE CODE SIR

>>49984419
>women get excited over how much money CS people make
i honestly don't even think it's this
women get excited about going into a male field and getting a rich swe husband
at least the ones i knew at school were, with one exception, in reality utterly disinterested in computers
>>49984474
jeets are a problem but when it comes to the cold reality of getting shit done and making programs that work white men will never be replaced
what i don't understand is why it's jeets and not chinks because while a lot of chinks lack the creativity to really innovate they are competent but jeets are usually just scammers and retards

>>49984497
minimum viable product, retard. websites, search engines, 737 MAX's. it doesn't matter. the quality doesn't matter.

>>49984498
well, is more that I don't need to do the actual calculation.

most of the time all the linear algebra I need is to get the vector angle between player and target and do basics shit like checking distance.

But most modern engines will have some area node or object and do that by pushing a button.
Or any trigonometry shit like touhou bullets are likely two six and cos formula lines.

Any kind of jump is likely not using calculus because mario NES jumps don't use calculus.
And realistic jumps are done using the game engine physics.

Game programming is the most dumbed down shit on all fields, and is literally made to be made using pressing buttons.

And still filters average people.

>>49984538
the women that finish a CS degree are literally ENTP women, like my cousin that the whore didn't accept to suck my dick.
fucking whore.

>>49984560
Look bro, I'm a game developer, self taught.
Literally the field you're saying.

Still women don't become game programmers.
WOMEN ARE BIOLOGICALLY FILTERED BY ANY FORM OF PROGRAMMING.

YES, EVEN CSS SHIT AND HTML WILL LIKELY FILTER MOST OF THEM.

>>49984560
when the recession really hits the chaff will get swept away
bad programmers are less useful than nobody at all

>>49984560

Tell me quality doesn't matter when you get a call about everyone's country defaulting to "Afghanistan" on users being submitted to financial institution. And this call is at 5 am Saturday morning. And there are already 20 other defects on the board, whereas normally at most, at most, there is a style bug. And now the company you work for is losing $2000 every minute, and this is not even for a Fortune 500.

How do I into 6502 Assembly from absolute zero to hero?

>>49983674
>UW
shit, essentially a state school. 70% of those retards will drop the major too

I just failed out of an mechanical engineering degree, I can do calc and algebra really well, I just failed on writing long reports. Would CS be a good option?

>>49984093
Nationally Certified US Math Teacher here - I can ASSURE you will 100% confidence that 97% is far too low. The overwhelming majority of students I see could never, and will never, be able to pass Algebra 2 and the only reason they get through high school is because the state just teaches them 8th grade math during their senior year and calls it algebra 2.

I'm not sure about your coding claim of needing high IQ - there are plenty of trash tier coders out there that seem to get by.

>>49984538
>why it's jeets and not chinks
southeast asians are not considered "diversity" anymore, there skin is too white. jeets on the other hand can pass as diversity hires because of their browner skins. they would love to hire blacks for those roles but not enough have the IQ. Also maybe chinese are considered a national security threat because they can leak secrets to china

>>49984614
did they fire the wagie who made the mistake and implement a rigorous screening test to filter out any other currently employed wagie who was also incompetent? no? then it didn't matter. MINIMUM. VIABLE. PRODUCT.

>>49983674
I went to UW. The girls fuck like rabbits and don’t care if you raw dog them.

>>49984637
If you wanna compete with a billion Indians yes

>>49984619
more likely to read a book.

look up the from nand to tetris course, that will be enough to be a great introduction to logic gates, building and ALU and then starting writing your own compilers.

Try to get the book and do the exercises, spend at least 10-12 weeks on that course.
Then learn 6502 from a book.

>>49984637
The issue with CS is the math of a STEM degree.

>>49984638
again, trash coders are likely to end up in webdev, not CS.

CS is likely being able to read a fucking math research paper and being able to implement it, many times from scratch.

>>49984638

What's Algebra 2 peak performance? It's before derivs and integration, right? Since that's Calc. I was always horrible at classifying math. This fag >>49984597 can probably attest to most people not having any clue what a radian is or what tan actually represents, past using the formula on the calculator to find the hypotenuse.

>>49984645

We have a Chinese guy on a team working with us, he is awesome.

>>49984683
I don't need math for programming a game using unity or godot.

that's mostly why I focused on doing art than learning CS for game development.

>>49984597
>the women that finish a CS degree are literally ENTP women
i don't speak myers briggs
college is a joke frankly all it takes to pass is any effort at all unless you are legitimately retarded
i know for a fact people came out of my school with a passing degree who wouldn't have been able to even do a fizzbuzz and even more who could only do it for 3 and 5
there were plenty of dudebro guys like this too who did go into the field for the money who would never ever be able to even learn c++ much less create anything in it

>>49984650

He won't get promoted. Everyone knows he is the weak link. The director of IT might even get heat for it because its originally his team.

>>49984657

> lived off campus
> worked after college
> didn't do shit socially

;_;

>>49984677

>again, trash coders are likely to end up in webdev, not CS.

Not arguing, but I really don't think most people think of "real CS" most of the time, since it's such a tiny fraction of jobs. Less than AI/ML even or Pascal maintenance.

>>49983674
Most of these retards drop out within a year.

>>49984706

Ayy lmao, everyone drop your fizzbuzzs now.

>>49983759
It's over

>>49984113
>Ironically, if you don't do fancy shit and keep your code clean, it becomes low-IQ friendly. And you *should* be doing that.
midwit take also no job security also inclusive faggot behavior

midwit thread

>>49984715
>;_;
you didn't miss much honestly that bullshit is really overrated
>I really don't think most people think of "real CS"
most people think html is arcane wizardry

>>49984706
>don't know meyers
I literally told you ENTP women are the ones likely to finish a CS degree.

because they're the most male psychology wise of all females.

>dude coding
That's not CS.

retard.

>>49984715
anything CS is likely math research.

coding is not CS.
webdev is not CS.
backedn/frontend is not CS.

that shit is software engineering.

CS is shit like writing a raytracer from scratch that uses a novel implementation of a voxel raymarcher with some alterations to properly run on a radeon igpu.

which is impossible to do without at least a CS bachelor.

>>49984719
This is also still true of traditional engineering fields like Civil, Mechanical, and Electrical Engineering. Only about 15-20% that started in those fields ended up in engineering by the time they graduated, but guess what, salaries in those fields have been stagnant for a decade now. Entry level MEs have been making 60k for a decade, the median ME in the US doesn’t even make 6 figures yet.

This feels like the CS blowoff top, everyone is FOMOing in in search of pay that actually lets them rent an apartment and they’ll end up jobless and skill-less unfortunately.

>>49984683
The high end of Algebra 2 is function composition (that includes the trig functions and logarithms). As well as the use of synthetic division.

1) f(x) = sin(x), g(x) = ln(x) * (2x^2), what is g(f(x)) and what is f(g(x))?

2) Use synthetic division to divide [(x^4) + (x^3) - (11x^2) + 30] by [x+2]

I've never had a non-white student solve these problems. Ever.

>>49983759
I LOVE WOMEN AND CHINKS
>I LOVE WOMEN AND CHINKS

>>49984752
>I literally told you ENTP women are the ones likely to finish a CS degree
yeah and that means nothing to me
you do a cs degree to get a job as a programmer there is not much real cs work out there
on a basic level if you can't even juggle coding then you aren't capable of understanding the fundamentals behind that

>>49984798
It's in IQ issue, not really a skin color issue.

A smart black kid could be able to solve it.

>inb4 racial IQ gaps autism

>>49984824
If you have a CS degree and you can't get a fucking online job, or likely can't make a start up or scam people online, it's more likely you're an npc retard.

>coding
again, not CS

>>49983674
Half of these are niggers or women who will only produce garbage code. They are not competition.

>>49984798
do you enjoy teaching? i heard it's awful these days, even outside of nigger hellholes.

>>49984798

Yea, I can't do that. I don't even remember expanding the square rules, e.g.

(a + b)2 = (a + b)(a + b) = a2 + 2ab + b2

Let alone what you posted. Good shit.

>>49984850
more likely they will quit after calculus I.

>>49983686
>>49983857
If these people are so smart and willing to work hard why are they working for other people? What a waste.

>>49984152
my job just gave every dev (including the fucking interns) a raise kek
this shit isn't going anywhere anytime soon

>>49984887
man, the tech industry makes so much money they literally don't care about wages.

And the fact post HS math will likely filter pretty much every person under 125 IQ means their wages will be high until most of the low IQ males don't breed.

>>49984887
you sound like a real estate roastie gloating about making $50k on a single sale. here's a hint: the good times always come to an end.

>>49983674

this is Karla Kush, isn't she ?

Serious question can women even code?

>>49984887

what percent pay raise ? I got 2.5% this year

>>49984987
not really.

ENTP women can.
ironically because their psychology is the most male like.

lol

>>49985020
Lol at your 7.5% pay cut.

>>49984798
I taught my differential equations teacher how to do tabular integration. She had apparently never heard of it. I couldn't believe it.

>>49984699
I agree with your sentiment about game dev largely not requiring math. There are however some areas where it’ll be a limitation, eg procedural animation (my favorite game dev topic). Although you can get decent results using assets like FinalIK.

>>49983759
There is only one white man there and he has painted finger nails. Lololol. Globohomo is so blatant in it’s discrimination in straight white men, it’s unreal

>>49984926
yea and you sound like a fag coping, good devs are in high demand right now
>>49985020
no idea, I'm the intern and I went from $40 to $47.5 an hour. the company itself is also going on a hiring spree right now also, so I guess they wanted to be more attractive to potential devs

>>49985065
I agre, my point is that you will need math for coding.

Doesn't matter how much you dumb down the tool.
you will need linear algebra and calculus I.

>>49984798
>Use synthetic division to
I hate when they try to force you to use a particular method to solve something. If you can solve it another way it should be allowed.

>>49984844

IQ and Race are strongly correlated, so it is a racial issue as well. Go back where you came from.

>>49985129
yes, that doesn't disprove than around 5-10% of black males are likely to be higher than 120 IQ points.

and ocassionally you get black geniuses.
so cope chud.

>>49985129
It does but, smart niggers are a real thing.
Hard to come by but they do exist.

>>49983759
Read this.

https://www.revolver.news/2022/06/colleges-are-ethnically-cleansing-americas-white-kulaks/

>>49984152
I don't know. My company still does super dumbed down whiteboard interviews (think programming 1 level stuff for entry level positions) and it still filters at least 80% of applicants, and that's being conservative. We've had positions open for months that we just can't find competent programmers for, and the standards are already laughably low. A lot of that is because we're in a flyover state and now that everyone's able to be fully remote, we're competing directly with FAGMAN salaries and stuff just below them. But still, I've seen multiple people with CS degrees or hyper-competent-seeming resumes that can't find the smallest element in a list. Just absolute 0 coding ability with a bachelor's degree. As long as whiteboard interviews stay the standard, an increase in people with degrees will only add to the noise that hiring managers have to filter out.

It's frustrating, because I would be happy to see an increase in interest in CS, but it seems to be motivated entirely by the meme that programming is easy money. If you're autistic, then yes, it is. Programming is not particularly hard unless you're in very specific niches of it, but it's often extremely tedious if you don't like the kind of problem solving it involves. And even for the algo savant types, getting something easily parsable and maintainable by an average coder is typically more useful than something that runs at absolute peak resource efficiency. The kind of drudgery and optimization involved isn't going to be interesting or rewarding for most people, and they're going to burn out or not be self motivated enough to get the skills to be hired in the first place. If these universities are lowering standards for diversity, they'll likely skirt by with C's while they should be failing, and assuming they don't drop out, after wasting 4 years, they'll find themselves having difficulty getting hired in an industry they hate. It's not a kindness to put people in that position regardless of race.

>>49985171
I think you’re ignoring the fact that whenever an intelligent black child is known to exist, it is targeted, ostracized and cannibalized/ ritualistically sacrificed by their own race, as well as by those who control their race (Jews). The few that escape are often synthesized into the already existing “talented tenth” split society, to where the percentage of intelligent black children does not increase. However, the slave masses continue to degenerate and breed endlessly, destroying the genetic composition as a whole.
of the race as a whole.

>>49984197
i just learned about tensorflow and it seems based. you can teach a computer to play rock, paper scissors with it or something (just watching my first tutorial video on it).

>>49983900
we have senior devs with masters degrees paid in $15k usd per year, I manage twelve of these guys, and I make more than all of them put together. I have a bachelor's and an MBA, both from state schools.

>>49985315
>america is the only culture or country with blacks.
jesus, americans are the dumbest motherfuckers ever.

>>49985354
yes, tensorflow is amazing.

>>49985176
Damn. Fuck kikes!

>>49985171
1-2% and clearly not you because you can't into standard deviations.

Bros. I just do not give a FUCK. Committed to this bullshit, but goddamn. This is why people quit CS.

>>49985443
1-2% at like 125.
16-20% higher than 105

cope.

>>49985446
AWS is the easiest shit to learn to use. They literally do everything for you.

>>49985526
can doing the free AWS tutorial shit they offer land u a basic bitch job?

>>49985615

No. These are just simplified versions of real shit as >>49985526 said. The problem is that you need to know what the "real shit" does.

They have 100s of services, and each service simplifies something. The problem is that it all has its own names, lingo, configs, etc.

I am not going to use even 5% of this "irl".

>>49984538
It’s not just women attracted to the money.
There are huge shifts in which departments get the most new majors declared (eng+cs colleges) based on the latest salary survey.
Then these people fail data structures or object-oriented programming, retake it in the summer while saying they’re just not interested in it and want to be taught machine learning.
When I was an undergrad these people used to get screened out at my uni. Everyone had to take a course on frog anatomy and such as a prerequisite to all the AI courses.

>>49984158
Welfare queen

>>49983989
Sorry for the ignorance, what is FAGMAN?

>>49984251
How did you get the job initially?

>>49984093
Cs is already worthless. The shit they teach is ussually 10+ years out of date, and they dont get into software design patterns ever at all. They stick to procedural, some tiny amount of oop, and algorithms. 90% of cs grads are not job ready and companies know it, which is why getting the first job is really hard. If im hiring, i dont care at all what your resume says or what creds you have. I only care what your github looks like.

>>49984093
>I've come to the conclusion than 97% of the world population gets filtered with calculus I and linear algebra.
It doesn't matter if you're right, they'll just drop the requirements. Blacks/browns CANNOT be wrong, that's one of the pillars of the current society. If they're ever "wrong" - it's the SYSTEM that is actually wrong.

>>49984798
I’m currently writing my masters thesis (marine engineering) and i have no clue how to do this

I'm fucking doomed to mediocrity. I can't excel in anything it seems. Sometimes I wish I was a retard who wouldn't aspire to amount to anything.
Currently preparing for my last exam of the year for statistics and I just can't fucking do it, I can't focus for shit anymore.

>>49986071
get off 4chan stop cooming and stop being a pussy ass bitch dipshit

>>49985176
would be interesting to see the % of juice among the whites to see if antisemites are right or wrong

>been tradie cable-puller
>coworkers are all construction worker brainlets
>my A+ cert got me the job but its fucking pointless
>nothing but drilling holes and carrying ladders
>hated my life, studying every damn course on udemy for help desk
>start new job at small MSP firm making more than my supervisor
>comfy office job and more to learn
>current employer and supervisor seething

we're all gonna make it bros

>>49984852
I retired after 8 years because my link/GRT/Avax stack makes enough that I don't have to work. It was fucking awful working in public schools. If I didn't have liberal universities so much I definitely would have got my math PhD. Now I work for R&D for a crpyto company I won't name - its like 20 hours a week, all from home, and I make like 130k a year. Fuckin' unbelievably comfy.

>>49984844
I didn't believe in any of that shit until i became a teacher and cruel reality forced me to accept it.

>>49985063
LOL

>>49985128
Synth division is actually to help set the stage for RREF and eigen values / eigen vectors.

>>49986010
The point is that you COULD learn how to do it because it isn't actually that hard - most people just aren't capable. Seriously, you could learn everything in my post in an afternoon except maybe logarithms if you don't remember them at all.

People leaving with CS degrees but not learning how to program is job security for those who did bother to learn to program. I say let them in and let them fuck everything up. More negotiation leverage for me later.

>>49985978

MM(F)AANG

Microsoft, Meta(Facebook), Amazon, Apple, Netflix, Google - basically "Tier 1" tech companies paying bank

Netflix > Facebook/Google > Amazon > Microsoft/Apple in terms of pay, with Mic/Apple far behind the rest of the pack.

>How did you get the job initially?

He grinded leetcode.

>>49986400
How the fuck is it even possible to go through four years of schooling and not know how to fucking write code? I hear this all the time and it blows me away.

>>49983674
IQ difference on display

>>49986484
>he's never heard a 67 year old jewish professor who has never had a real job in his life say the "college isn't job training" meme

cyber security chads where you at?

>>49986484
Reactionary expansions of programs for the sake of the learn to code meme. A lot of kids are just getting pushed through a wide open pipeline right now, and the kids themselves will complain if there is any friction (actual rigor) on the way through.
There's nothing that can really be done at this point either because it's way too late to gatekeep. Just embrace the absurdity.

>>49985446
is that udemy?

>>49986604

Yea. AWS Certified Solutions Architect Associate SAA-C02 [2022]

I don't know what else to study for it. I could cram docs but this was like $7 on sale. I am going at 1.5 speed and so far it has been all day yesterday and today.

>>49986544
>>49986604

https://overthewire.org/wargames/bandit/

> ^ 4u

>be physics major
>go to coding bootcamp
>get SWE job
>mfw most CS majors only have experience with 1 language
>mfw most CS majors have never even touched a database
>mfw most CS majors have never written a unit test
>mfw most CS majors don’t understand how the internet works
>mfw most CS majors don’t know how to use the command line
>imposter syndrome: gone
CS majors are fucking retarded.

>>49986484
>How the fuck is it even possible to go through four years of schooling and not know how to fucking write code?
I'm finishing a 4 year CS bachelor next year and I can't code for shit. I somehow just coasted through the programming courses, cramming for it, getting a passing grade and then forgetting everything. Chose front-end stuff for specialization, did a minor outside of IT (business related). Never did any portfolio projects. Still managed to get into a comfy scale up with too much money so will probably get shuffled into a project management/product ownership role since I'm socially well adjusted (AKA a normie).

>>49983674
The average dev is now absolutely retarded. It makes my life easier, but I can’t stand these normie faggots. I work with 1/10th the effort and still look like a genius. These days “coding” simply means knowing how to string together 2000+ different libraries to create something barely functional.

>>49986641
I did the base aws cert in like one weekend last year and it was pretty easy but I hear solutions architect is pretty hard. best of luck anon.
I actually just got my CYSA+ last month so I'm taking it easy the rest of the year as far as studying

>>49986727

Cool, as mentioned earlier, I feel like a complete cuck taking these exams all the time.

>>49986721
Holy based, strive for product manager, at FAGMAN pay is comparable to SWE.

>>49986761
in the short term yeah I feel the same way, but these certs will help you advance so in the longrun its for the best. I'm getting bumped up to security analyst 2 at the end of the year from getting my new cert. it also helps if your work helps pay for some of your training

>>49986692
Lol none of that is true, especially if they went to UW. Any UW grad would code circles around faggot boot camp grads like you. I hope you know when I’m a manager I will be immediately trashing any dumbass that applies with a boot camp on their resume. No one takes you seriously, you’re the laughing stock of our profession

t. senior engineer with 7 yoe that’s worked with a million retarded boot camp grads

>>49986785
Will do anon. A junior product owner position just opened up at the company I work at. Also talked to the COO a while back and they remembered my name when I bumped into them recently. Fuck, this might actually work

>>49984474
They're there because Indians are obedient.
Innovations is over, we're in the strip mining civilization phaze

>>49986503
this, lots of neets here hating on programming because they are unemployable. bullrun is over stop coping. i used to hate normies but u neets are the same low iq retards, difference is you dont have sex lmao

The only one I like

>>49986843
I did almost the same thing. Somehow got into a software company as customer support. Went to managers office and talked to him for 90 minutes about PO position. Last week bumped into him and he said I will get it. It helps as well when the guy is super approachable Chad. Anyway, just do a firm handshake and you got it.

You're not a real CS fag if you're not trying to solve P vs NP in your spare time

I love how much cope and seethe CS still instills in toilet paper perma wagie degree holders

>>49983686
This has been repeated since before faceberg. Only the opposite has happened.

Sneed low IQer

>>49983686
that part's true
actually getting a job after graduating is the part of the equation that's getting fucked

>>49986965
Holy shit are you me? Didn't want to divulge too much info but I started at this (software) company as customer support too. Congrats on the position, feeling good about my chances as well. WAGMI anon

>>49984004
>Azure has Azure Dev Ops and their own version of Git
Azure DevOps is not being developed anymore. Microsoft are all-in on their own GitHub Actions now.

>>49984111
>The good thing os Jenkins is all the addons it has and that you can connect and run anything
Jenkins is like Wordpress will all those crazy add-ons, not to mention you'll have yet another tool to support. SaaS CI/CD tools are better.

>>49984120
>provider agnostic
An idea not borne out in reality sadly. You'd have to go through your code with a fine toothcomb if you moved from one provider to another. Terraform and use of "state" is overall better than using something like CloudFormation, despite its own idiosyncrasies.

>>49984251
>Certs are 90% a waste of time
They're a good way of getting promoted internally. Proof to your boss that you're developing.
Also while most employers don't care about certs, there are a few that do and they can make you stand out. No harm done, except for time investment.

>>49983674
That's crazy
Doesn't matter if you have a CS degree or not if you can do the work though
Either have some experience or projects you can demonstrate and you'll likely get a job
Just having the degree doesn't mean much

>>49986724
>I work with 1/10th the effort and still look like a genius
unironically the ideal career path in this era

>>49987060
>socially adept
No, I'm just lazy and don't care about the project.

>>49987089
A good boss would recognize this and try to pay you 3x more for 10x more work.

>>49987026
I would also suggest to learn about PO position through courses, learn some development they do, talk to people, make sure they know you and show interest in their work and in the product. You got it fren, I believe you.

>>49985271
How is programming easy if you're autistic?
Wouldn't it be mind numbing doing the same thing day after day?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but as it currently stands you just need to demonstrate that you can do the work as opposed to anything else, eh?
Like CS degrees don't really mean much alone and anyone with enough time and effort can make a decent Github, understand software design patterns, algorithms, and the underlying CS considerations such as time/space complexity and data structures.
Sure, you likely won't be going and making a compiler or some low-level work like hardware design or language creation, but for getting your foot in the door it doesn't seem impossible

>>49987191
Yes but the more you stand out the better. Interpret it any way you want.

>>49985982
So I if I'm a McWagie but my GitHub looks great and I pass the interview test, I'm in?

>getting upset about this
Nah based brown people will shit up aws so bad it will all come crashing down and we will be saved from centralized system id control of goods. I look forward to monero mad max markets. Make sure to pillow old people that would be capable of maintaining oldfag systems and promote shitty libraries to clog the internet. Monks of the future will retain the knowledge of c and keep it from dirtbag bankers and corporatefags.

>>49987191
>Like CS degrees don't really mean much alone
They matter for getting the interview. Most job description will list a bachelor’s in CS or related STEM field as a basic requirement. All of that extracurricular experience you have wont mean shit if you can’t even get an interview.

>>49987060
kek that’s unironically me.

>>49984157
>STEM is almost entirely dead,
I make $160k and don't have a degree. STEM is amazing. I'm sorry you couldnt make it.

>>49987291
>They matter for getting the interview. Most job description will list a bachelor’s in CS or related STEM field as a basic requirement. All of that extracurricular experience you have wont mean shit if you can’t even get an interview.
I'm a principal full stack and I have no degree. I know programming architecture like the back of my hand though.

>>49987110
Yes but this never happens. HR will refuse to give you more than 10% cause muh equality.

>>49985982
> If im hiring, i dont care at all what your resume says or what creds you have. I only care what your github looks like.
Yeah, you have absolutely zero to do with hiring if you really believe that. I’ve never interviewed with a company that cares about your Github. I don’t even list it on my resume anymore. Employers go through so many applicants, there’s no way they’re going to take the time to go through the code of even 10% of them. They may ask you about projects you’ve worked on but all you need to be able to do is describe what you did and why you did it.

>>49987252
You might but you will need lots of applications and someone giving you a chance. Good news though is that people did it before. Better yet, learn on your own, built a GitHub and them so one of those bootcamps that guarantees employment (you need to quality for one of those, check requirements online).

Whatever age you are, would you rather be mcwagie in 1-3 years or working as a Dev somewhere ? The reality is you can do it, the only one stopping you is yourself.

Gatekeepers can go fuck themselves. Every anon in this thread is gonna make it.

>>49984113
>Hundies can probably code
they can only follow simple instructions. there is a reason why they are mostly working at call centers.

>>49987331
How did you do it and what did u do?

>>49987353
> I'm a principal full stack
Then you’ve been in the industry for 10 to 20 years, before it was over saturated with candidates.

>>49987372
>How did you do it and what did u do?
Understand and worship principals like SOLID and others. Work it into everything you do. You will be a top tier programmer just by that. Also be assertive. Take the bull by the horns attitude. Majority of devs lack these things. None of my peers at my last job could even explain inversion of control why composition over inheritance matters.

>>49987225
Completely makes sense and a very, very rational statement.
>>49987291
>Most job description will list a bachelor’s in CS or related STEM field as a basic requirement
tbqh I've found this to be more HR retards looking at other company's job descriptions
If you dodge them and get your resume to a manager, your chances dramatically increase
t. did this, not in dev though

Let's see Paul Allen's center...

>>49987384
>Then you’ve been in the industry for 10 to 20 ye
No but you are right about saturation. I ask every candidate architecture philosophy questions and it stumps 90% of them. I am brutal with low quality candidates.

>>49983686
90%+ of these morons will flunk out

>>49983674
>proudly displaying ghetto trash sign language
jfc what a dumpster fire

another symptom of the fall of western civilizations

>>49984239
>the idea in fagman is that you can pick up any stack. It's a lie, but it's convenient.
??? What retards have you been working with?
>hired to do .Net so I learn .Net
>hired to do C
>job requires C++ so I take training in C++
>job requires Python so I learn Python
>job requires assembly so I take training in assembly
>want job in Go so I learn Go and do interview in Go
>hired to do Go
>etc.
A programmer who can't learn new languages, libraries and tools is worthless.

I left coding and became a "solutions architect" which means traditional organisations like banks, government, etc. pay me $1000/day to come in and say "you need to build microservices and here's how".

If you're a coder you will inevitably be dragged down to competing with third worlders. You need to be closer to the money source (project funding) to continue to make a living.

>>49987428

> anyone remembers SOLID. Try it without googling or reading my post

SRP?
> your method / class should do one thing and one thing only
OPEN CLOSED?
> (for extension, for modification) only reallly applies when you are writing a library or want to extend without risking bugs. If you need to change functionality, just change it.

LISKOV SUBSTITUTION?
> a derived class should work anywhere where the base class does?

INTERFACE SEGREGATION
> if a class is not implementing ALL members of an interface, don't apply that interface (otherwise the class has to have redundant functionality). This is actually useful when writing real code if you want to use a simple interface. For example you have an EmailLead, ApiLead, GoogleLead, WebsiteLead, whatever and you : ILead it and then have Process() or whatever on Ilead

DEPENDENCY INVERSION
> higher level abstraction should not depend on implementation details? Built into everything out of the box, basically.

Anyway, drop more of this shit on me.

> anyone ever uses architecture other than layered (/hexagonal) and pipe (as in, give her the pipe).

Well, that and async where you abstract your class into a queue of some sort. Brb digging out book.

What else do you need to know?

>>49987455
>architecture philosophy questions
What resources would you recommend to learn more about this?
I'm very interested in learning more about these concepts than the same data structure for the nth time

>>49984251
>consulting shops who dangle certs in front of clients
I can confirm this. God I hate Azure certs, literally just a scam.

>>49987461
I dropped out of programming college and I still make a lot of money. Of course I was coding when I was 16 and had more experience than most people before I even signed up for school.

>>49987532

Oh. It's "Event-Driven Architecture Style". Also, implying I know what the fuck "Space-Based" and "Orchestration-Driven" architecture is. Mark Richards & Neal Ford can eat a dick.

>>49987507

>A programmer who can't learn new languages, libraries and tools is worthless.

If you have 3 months to go live and need someone on your team, they better understand how services talk to each other in React, how Dapper works, and how DI works in .NET Core, as an example.

Just because I know different collection types and when to use a Dictionary vs an Array vs a Linked List and can guess that some sort of equivalent exists in every language doesn't mean that I can pick up any language and run with it.

If you think that a Java dev won't stumble a bit while they pick up Python w/ Django or FastAPI, you are delusional.

>>49984982
>Karla Kush
looks like it

>>49983759
We out chea codin dat shit ya heard me

>>49984777
Software, mainly ai, is the future regardless of how many people go into CS. Even if the salaries become stagnant or drop a little, the general trend will be upward.

>>49983857
Ha! That's babby shit. Try this one on for size ;)

thats why i went to finance

I dont need to know shit about calculus and algebra

i get to push papers around for all day and make the same as any computer grad

my job is so easy I sometimes fall asleep

seethe cope dilate

>>49987738

> working in factory for summer job
> do not give a shit
> my job is to move door hinges from one part of factory to another
> get them ready for boss
> boss drives some weird transport thing that's used for levelling concrete
> he is out sick
> start driving it
> everyone happy I am getting parts to them fast
> I can drift on slick warehouse floors
> people request more and more parts
> start using forklift
> female boomer manager doesn't care
> drifting it one day
> some big boss tells me to watch it
> tell him i literally do not give a fuck, it's my summer job
> he turns red
> does nothing about it
> drift forklift for the rest of summer

This is literally a true story too.

>>49987606
The concept of a "Java dev" or "python dev" is erasing now due to the pace that framework and languages are evolving, and the requirements that companies have on job postings. Most new devs are expected to be jack of all trades types rather than experts in one area

>>49984113
>Ironically, if you don't do fancy shit and keep your code clean, it becomes low-IQ friendly. And you *should* be doing that.

This is why we need to push using rust everywhere. Need to start filtering out the brainlets

>>49987782

I am literally a CFA and have an expired Series 7,63,65 and CFP. Wrong life choice. Seethe, cope, dilate.

>>49987884

Web Assembly pretty much only supports Rust atm and either FB or Goog made it their unofficial infra lang, don't remember which. In short, it's happening already.

I don't think Web Assembly will take off though. If you do, unironically buy ICP, it's their only value proposition.

>>49987817

I am yet to see devs who are good in more than 2-3 environments. I don't mean just the lang, I mean if you list Java, you know Spring and Apache too, for example.

>>49987788
Turnover in those types of jobs is so unbelievably bad that as long as you show up on time and pass a drug test, they'll let you get away with almost anything

>>49987782
based. i do the same but in accounting. and before "muh brainlet" from the neurodiverse types, i know how to code and my undergrad was in applied math with a minor in chemistry.

>>49984798
I don’t think Asians should have any problems solving those

>>49987164
I guess I didn't word that well. It's not that it's easy if you're autistic specifically, but there's a level of tedium to it that seems to appeal more to people on the spectrum or with similar personalities. At least one in five people that I work with are some level of autistic, and I don't mean the meme 4chan use of the word. They're obviously functional enough that it just comes across as a serious of odd social quirks, bit it's consistent with people that I know that have been diagnosed with autism or aspergers for me to assume that they are, and a lot of them are old enough that they probably weren't diagnosed as kids. But there are certain kinds of tedium, detail oriented tasks, and accumulation of field-specific knowledge, facts, and labels that seem to appeal more to people on the spectrum than "neurotypical" people. It's not that every autistic person would naturally be a good programmer or want to, but if you're selecting for "traits that make a good programmer", you'll be selecting for qualities that have some overlap with high functioning ASD.

The point of what I was trying to say is that the hardest parts of programming jobs that filter the general populace aren't necessarily cognitive. Sure, someone with a sub 100 IQ is likely going to struggle with anything of any real complexity. But the big filters are finding enough joy in some of the tedium to prevent burnout. You aren't literally doing the same thing every day, but a lot of the common day to day can feel monotonous if you don't find satisfaction in some of the parts that most would find to be pure meticulous drudgery. That satisfaction is what drives the self learning and gathering of new skills that's necessary to stay relevant and keep progressing in the field.

>>49983674

Data science. Field is flooded with fakers and retards but when done right is brutally objective in showing value add (or proving you're useless). So if you actually known your shit you'll stand out and go up fast.

>>49984093
my dude an indian can do that LOL

>>49988565
The top .5% who make it to the West sure. Still 5 million of them.

>>49987606
>If you have 3 months to go live and need someone on your team, they better understand how services talk to each other in React, how Dapper works, and how DI works in .NET Core, as an example.
If you only need someone for three months then why even hire a full-time employee

You're not wrong but I'm not sure I'd even be able to hire someone that fast if I really needed an expert

>>49986500
Idgi, they're both doing weird shit with their hands. I guess one is wearing a mask tho

>>49984677
>again, trash coders are likely to end up in webdev, not CS.
>CS is likely being able to read a fucking math research paper and being able to implement it, many times from scratch.
90% of my car program was trash coders who would have failed the math research paper thing. They only taught half the material in a typical data structures class because as the professors put it, the students wouldn't be able to handle it

Maybe my school was particularly full of underachievers but I could imagine 90% of my peers there going on leetcode nowadays and faking their way into a $200k job

>>49987712
>Software, mainly ai
Already being automated by every major tech co. Didn't you see GitHub 's new ai coder?

>>49984093
>I've come to the conclusion than 97% of the world population gets filtered with calculus I and linear algebra
Half the Chinese girls I dated mentioned taking shit like calculus or number theory when I mentioned my major. There's a whole world outside America where the people aren't retarded and highschool students can do calculus

Why would someone get a cs degree to begin with. Join the military and get an IT mos, get sec+ before ur out, work for Boeing, textron, Or any fed job because of ur veteran preference making 80k+ no degree required.

>>49988888
checked

>>49988888
>Why would someone get a cs degree to begin with. Join the military and get an IT mos, get sec+ before ur out, work for Boeing, textron, Or any fed job because of ur veteran preference making 80k+ no degree required.
Or make $180k straight out of school at fagman and $250k a couple years later if

>>49984266
All that shit is additional layers of obfuscation that makes it harder. You can't just learn html CSS JS and sql you have to know node react angular vue express mongo firebase etc etc. It's job security and artificial differentiation in skill sets.

>>49984357
That's why tensorflow started to stagnate in adoption as Facebook 's shit took over and now even Google is recognizing the flaws and moving away from it internally where possible, there was an article published on this

Ai/ml shit is gonna get easier and easier and traditional software already has githubs ai coder to play with

>>49988932
Just how feasible is it though getting a job at fagman upon graduation? I myself find it difficult to believe that they would hire a retarded 22 year old because he has a cs degree. At least at the salary you had stated.

>>49988941
>You can't just learn html CSS JS and sql you have to know node react angular vue express mongo firebase etc etc
You hire one senior who understands consistency sharding etc and have them design shit while supervising juniors for the actual coding.

>>49983674
I’m convinced some low level programming knowledge will be as basic as typing in the next 10 years

I’d imagine secretaries that could use Microsoft word in 1990 made bank too

>>49988888
That's not getting you 80k lol, you'd better have a clearance too

>>49988994

Not likely unless you are in MIT or are exceptional. I do know a 21 year old kid out of a flyover who went to Amazon. Amazon is the shitiest FAGMAN. He was also exceptional, was better than our seniors, and we have good seniors. He also almost came back because he said Amazon was utter shit to work for.

Also, PJs 4lyfe.

>>49989028
Almost all veterans have secret clearance. Also what makes you think you couldn’t? I’m in the military and work with these lucky faggots. I’m pretty sure I know more than you about this. Why would I be larping about this. I’m simply just letting ppl know here this is a viable alternative path to a successful career.

Could completing the Odin Project and getting some AWS certs land me a junior dev job? Currently work a client facing role in finance and its starting to drive me fucking insane. Only previous coding experience were taking a few database/algo classes in undergrad for Java. Don't remember shit and I barely passed them (although they were considered "weed-out" courses). Have saved enough $ to live for a year without worry. Strongly considering putting my 2 weeks in and taking a gamble on this.

>>49989084

I think the problem with the military is the same one as with FAGMAN - people who need it don't understand how it works and what's required.

Want to get the most out of the mil? Grind for the ASVAB. A shitty MOS is worse than a degree in women's studies.

>>49988994
At work at one of these companies, they hire retarded 22yos all the time. All you need are two steps:
1. Tailor your resume/LinkedIn to convince a recruiter to take a chance on you because they get fired if they aren't bringing in enough people that get hired, which means they can be picky about resumes / schools / your race / your gender

2. Pass the actual interview. That means look up the kinds of questions they ask and practice them religiously

If you can get the interview and pass it then you get hired. Note that the big comp packages get reduced somewhat if you're not living in NYC or the bay area.

Another way to get an interview is to practice a lot and then find a fagman employee online on twitter or blind etc and tell them you've practiced interviewing, that you think you have a real shot at passing an interview, and ask for a referral. Some of them will be happy to refer you which will make getting the recruiter's recognition easier.

Idk if the salaries will still be high by the time you go through school though. The economy is collapsing, tons of people think this is their sure shot to wealth, and if we're really unlucky then ai coders might be a real threat to jobs within a couple years so it's all still a gamble

>>49989118
Absolutely I agree. Being ground side is almost guaranteed to fuck ur body up and learn useless skills for the civilian sector. Air wing is much more practical. Avionics, mechanics, and IT make up a lot of jobs and these DOD contracted companies like Boeing hire you on the spot right after you get out @70k a year plus.

>>49989084
...I used to be a 25N my guy. I've worked at all the top defense contractors before working for a big 4 consulting firm. Unless you live on the west coast or northeast, no one is giving a Sec+ with no real job experience 80k lol.

>tfw self learned react and nodejs before they boomed in 2015
feels good man
branched out from frontshit thankfully

>>49989129
Damn, thanks for the response.

>>49989060
>Not likely unless you are in MIT or are exceptional
It's harder to get that initial interest from a recruiter without a fancy school or something notable on your resume. That's why finding someone to refer you is so crucial.

I had a guy from an internet forum who offered to refer me after giving me a pretend interview to make sure I wasn't a complete clown. It was in his interest to do so as his company offered a several thousand dollar bonus to anyone who referred a person who actually got hired.

Any company that offers a referral bonus to employees who refer new hires is probably a particularly good target. You can search for these people by company and job type on LinkedIn (make sure you get a referral from someone who does the job you want to do, it looks weird if a sales person is vouching for your technical skills)

>CFA Master Race
>Women just can't pass level 2
>Red tape making my job secure AF
>Bro culture protecting my field from antisocial nerds and pajeets
>Easy AF if your IQ >130
>WFH + making 6 figs in a LCOL city

CS will be dominated by women, again. Women got kicked out by the finance bros a while ago, but they're coming back and they're actually better than men at it. It's a feminine field after all (low risk).

>>49989157
West coast + military IT experience for 4 years + sec+ + secret clearance + veteran preference = 80k plus job a year. How many people do you know with all the above at 23 years old? To an employer that is an outstanding employee you know can follow directions and has a brain.

>>49989220
Np

>>49989242
>I had a guy from an internet forum who offered to refer me after giving me a pretend interview to make sure I wasn't a complete clown. It was in his interest to do so as his company offered a several thousand dollar bonus to anyone who referred a person who actually got hired
Note I've heard of people getting fired for referring people they didn't know, I don't know if that's common or if they abused it by referring too many incompetent people, but I've seen folks who are happy to take the chance on a stranger for that $4000 referral bonus. Probably helps if you have practiced the questions enough that you won't make your referrer look bad with your performance at the actual interview.

>>49983674
no one ever told me there was so much hot pussy in cs

>>49989107
I worked a client facing role in finance to pay off my coding bootcamp. Now im a dev working from home and not dealing with bullshit. Just depends how much you want it because maybe 1 or 2 people in my class got a job flatter the bootcamp

>>49983674
Fuck my life, I will never get out my parents basement.

>>49986173
At least half the white population in Ivy League schools are Jews. So about 7% of a Ivy League university is white and out that 7% 75% of the whites are female so that leaves 1.75% of whites that are male which is safe to assume they got in because of being part of the LGTB, so zero straight white male population in Ivy League schools.

>>49989278
You have a lot of learning to do. I just want to leave you with one piece of advice. Don't let being a veteran become your identity. I promise you no one cares. Good luck to you bro.

>>49989429
How long was the bootcamp/hrs per week? How many people were left at the end compared to the # of people who started?

>>49986604
looks like it, im doing a 36 hours solidity-react course as well.

This is what happened in other STEM fields. It is promoted as a high paying job, so people go to it. Eventually it will be oversaturated and jobs will be hard to acquire since so many people have degrees in the field. I have no idea why the government keeps pushing people towards STEM.

>>49989506
>I have no idea why the government keeps pushing people towards STEM.
Easy for them to point at and say there's hope. Imagine if they didn't have any good jobs to point at. Also probably they get encouraged to by company leaders who fucking HATE paying so much for labor

>>49984538
In my company they found a way to use pajeets. They just hire them as a cheap testers and on-site engineers. All the other developers are white, mena or chinks. No jeet can push code into our repository.

>>49983674
kek, what a joke. women and brown people can't into tech

>>49983674
Go Dawgs.

>>49984093
I got D on calculus and linear algebra, but I got A for discrete math and probablity. And I am a software architect. If anyone tells me that they got A from calculus I wouldn't hire them since chanes are high that he is a fucking autist or nerd.

>>49989242
>>49989129

So I have made clear that I am not FAGMAN. I don't have real FAGMAN contacts. How likely is remote today for a senior FAGMAN role?

>>49989260

There are no jobs. What they don't talk about is that there are thousands of people who pass level 3 (and let's be honest, if you pass 2, you will pass 3) and then don't get a job.

>>49987529
Do you have your own consultancy, or are you part of a larger one?

>>49984129
It is all just third worlders salivating over certificates.

>>49983857
>At worst, salaries go down to other engineer salaries.
Salaries going down is a complete non-starter in an inflationary environment. I mean, they will, but the idea of alluding to it being in any way acceptable is silly.

>>49987606
>If you think that a Java dev won't stumble a bit while they pick up Python w/ Django or FastAPI, you are delusional.
I don't think it won't happen, more that tech giants don't care as they aren't pressed for time or constantly firefighting like smaller companies. We've all heard about Google hiring top graduates and having them A/B test the colour a single button because they have so much money they can afford to hire and underutilise people.

The puzzles aren't meant to be knowledge puzzles, they're meant to be IQ tests. Most of them have an obvious "solution" that results in a hacky messy recursive DFS with caches that takes over the time allotment to write, and a simple iterative solution that can be written and tested in ten minutes if you're bright enough to get the intuition without too much prompting. To find that consistently you have to either have so high an IQ you just spot it immediately, or (if you're human) be bright enough to pick up the patterns with a few weeks of prep.

They're probably filtering for the ability to pick things up quickly (Google at least limit you to six weeks prep), both for their own use and to the detriment of competitors.

>>49989759
> If anyone tells me that they got A from calculus I wouldn't hire them
How can you not get an A in calculus. That’s cookbook stuff.
>since chanes are high that he is a fucking autist or nerd.
Oh.

>>49989759
I got As in all those subjects because i spent and hour a day on khan academy during the semester before i had to take those classes.

>>49989506
>>49989707
you guys do realize that cs grads probably account for 1% of the student population at most universities right? the top majors at most schools are business, psychology, biology, english, etc. I'm not saying stem isn't saturated, but everyone is overplaying the amount of new grads entering most fields tbqh.

>>49991006
First year it's about 5% imo, my degree shed about 80% by the second year

>>49983988
So you work for Capital One?

>>49984305
Theyre both subsets of logic you brainlet

hey CS bros im currently in my 2nd year CS but i buttfucked my GPA , by the time i graduate i'll probably have a mid GPA and no experience WTF do i do am i screwed

>>49990908
This is the answer. Top companies select for the highest IQ software engineers and just expect them to learn anything (which they can). Certs are for people who need to "prove" they can do something because they're too dumb to be trusted to learn and are only trusted as a monkey.

>>49989759
I got an A in all 3 calcs and an A in differential equations. I'm not a nerd or an autist I just figured after being a softmore for 5 years it was time to study and get the fuck out. I partied my fucking ass off the 5 years of college. I feel ya on that though. Unless there is a real good reason someone makes straight As id never hire them.

There's not one white male in that group. You know, the demographic most interested in technology and building computing platforms...

wow so many master software engineers and cs majors on biz!

>>49989759
>Being mad at Calculus
Raped Discrete math and Calculus 1-3, what now? Calculus isn't even hard Jesus, just study.

>>49983989
>help desk requires tons of certs

No it doesn’t lol. I don’t have any certifications or even a degree and I work doing computer support.

>>49992073
get an internship in the summer of your third year. you have a year to apply, start now. https://github.com/pittcsc/Summer2023-Internships
find a friend group to split premium leetcode with. grind leetcode until you can do easys regularly (some companies will ask mediums, not much in my experience though)
to practice the social aspect of interviewing go use https://www.pramp.com/#/
if you get an internship it is much easier to get a job. worst case scenario hit up one of your cs profs and see if they have a research position open, that also helps as experience.
apply at amazon if youre not a diversity hire, they offer oas to everyone
>t. newgrad fagman

>>49993557
ty for the advice, im a leafFag so i prob would have to apply to more canadian ones

any tips for what kind of projects to put on my resume, are there any stacks that are meta rn?

Some dirty secrets....

Most PM's have no idea about the technical complexity of their products. 90% of products are low effort CRUD apps, but these PM's pay top dollar to engs to make themselves feel important for leading an expensive team. They're equally bad at judging talent, so mostly just hire people who are good at talking and lack deep technical skills. This distorts the market because incompetent people are actually getting paid a lot of money, but no one really knows that the janky web app this 10 person team built over 2 years could just have easily been built by an actually competent person over a long weekend.

Obviously, the entire market isn't stupid. FAGMAN hires insanely smart people who work on insanely hard problems and pay them insane wages because it's still outrageously profitable. The best civil eng can make a stadium which serves 20k people a few times a year. The best software eng can make a service which serves millions of people every second. That's why SWE can command larger salaries than anyone else.

Price's law says that 50% of the work is done by the square root of the total number of people who participate in the work. So on a team of 100, 10 engineers are doing most of the work. These 10 will always be employed for high wages. Everyone else can be replaced by pajeets/AI/whatever.......but management is too dumb to know who the important 10 are, so all SWE will continue to be just fine, forever.

>>49984214
>In actuality, in a world based on merit
So, disregarding actual reality...most everyone's salary would be different?

neat.

In the real world, software engineering has essentially infinite leverage that other engineering disciplines don't. One engineer can make like $50 million in profit in a year, at web scale.

Yes, many make $0 in proft, but this type of scalability is why the profit is so high. Just like media (e.g. being a movie star/big youtuber) scales. They make one movie and N million people can consume it

>>49983942
>That's why FAGMAN might be the way to go - the interview is like one of these exams, but after that, they don't care if you get all this bullshit
It IS the way to go.
FAGMAN or equivalent (do your own research; lots of companies of this type exist outside the acronym)

>>49983942
>That's what people don't get about IT - learning all this fucking bullshit nonstop
Ya, it's why I'm exiting the field or going into product management. Learning a bunch of short term skills over and over is for trannies

>>49994153
The reality is that the "computers" are the ones who perform most of the actual "labor" (performing millions of calculations per second to provide some value to an end user). Because the SWE is the only one who can harness this infinite supply of docile yet powerful "slave labor", they have leverage over everyone else. Sure, you can try to make this normie friendly with excel/frameworks/etc.....but the deeper technical knowledge you have, the harder you can whip your slave, the more power you can extract from the machine, the more you're valued in the marketplace.

>>49989850
Amazon and MS are the only one's I'd call "somewhat remote friendly", but it really depends what team you're on, your manager, and director. I left N way before pandemic, and they were strictly in office, but things are probably different post-covid.

>>49983674
Oldfag here people have been saying CS is oversaturated since before the dotcom bubble burst.
>>49987461
This.
The truth is most people don't have what it takes to make it through four years of intense study of complex material.

>>49989759
>I wouldn't hire high IQ individuals, instead I prefer to hire low IQ retards to shit up my codebase
If I was the CTO in your company I would've fired your dumb ass lmao.

>>49984777
>everyone is FOMOing in in search of pay that actually lets them rent an apartment
the absolute state of america rn

>>49984926
>you sound like a real estate roastie gloating about making $50k on a single sale.
you think the tech industry is a "single sale"?

cope harder. the demand is INSANE right now. don't let a few layoffs at shit companies distract you.

t.actually in the industry

i work in IT and we only hire blacks and women as FTEs. the actual work is done by vendors with white people. sorry bros

>>49985128
>If you can solve it another way it should be allowed.
In industry/practical use, yes, but as the other anon mentioned there is value in learning specific tools through forced usage

>>49993889
id recommend putting stuff you made from hackathons, or personal projects on github. if you're careful about it, you can also put large school assignments on it (make sure its hard for other students to find and copy). desu havent really needed to create repos explicitly for getting jobs, usually i have enough projects on the side going such as algo trading, web scraping that i can just put on my github after im done

>>49986359
>The point is that you COULD learn how to do it because it isn't actually that hard
ya I remember being able to do that shit like a machine before I got into codefagging which is mind numbing lol

>>49988994
It's extremely competitive but it's not impossible, if anything FAGMAN is very biased towards younger blood as a lot do get filtered out before moving up the ranks. Really you don't need anything but to be after it and showcase your problem solving skills to get your foot in the door. Most of these companies look for all kinds of code monkeys capable in different fields, e.g. a lot of my friends in Bio started working at Google, some in just mediocre code monkey positions, but one made it up to their life sciences Google X division.

>>49984239
A lot of STEM isn't about the money but the impact or how much you like your job. One buddy of mine is content to work his way up just making USGS water maps for the rest of his life for 65k in a shitty midwest suburb. Similarly, I work in R&D with a PhD making just under 3x that and love my work as well, it's different strokes for different folks.

The problem is CS scalability if you work in the pipeline and not research and development. As the field gets more saturated, the bottom 80% will face suppressed salaries and get progressively more diluted and more modular which ultimately overspecializes people rather than helping them grow. You kind of have to work on the frontier if you want to be scalable, at least how I see it. That doesn't mean you can't live a regular joe schmoe life tacking in 50 LOC a week for some code monkey megacorp position and have a comfy middle class senpai though.

>>49983674
do you really need to go to college for cs?

>>49988994
>I myself find it difficult to believe that they would hire a retarded 22 year old because he has a cs degree.
If you're a retard, join the military, yes.
If you're smart, straight to FAGMAN or maybe take a year or two at a startup then go up.

It's very possible from any school.

>>49994878
no, it's just to pass the hr filter if you're some kind of social reject and don't have friends to get you through.

>>49984905
>most of the low IQ males don't breed.

What the fuck are you talking about? The idiots are breeding like rabbits. I swear all the "alpha" "gamma" or whatever crowd are in a fucking bubble.

>>49983988
>Mine uses same exact stack too
Hmmmm...

>>49984283
>community college
What you said is not true for any top school. I graduated from a large highly ranked school and I’m pretty sure most freshmen wanting to do cs graduated. This field is fucking flooded at the entry level. It will get quite bad a few years from now.

What’s the market like for OS/Kernel dev? I can’t bring myself to give a shit about python or webshittery but am deeply interested in low-level stuff? What’s the likelihood of me getting a job making 6 figures using C? Assume I know my shit with contributions to the Linux kernel and open source driver dev but no electronics background.

>>49988994
fagman hires people from no-name schools what are in their late 20s and/or career switchers, even from online schools; if you have solid projects and have insane soft-skills, you can land a job right out the gates.

That being said, it's insanely fucking hard, damn near impossible, it's like winning the lottery, it takes a lot of luck to land it on your first go, it becomes more feasible as you gain more experience and/or actually learn to code. The truth is no one knows how to code when they get their first job. All you people really know how to do is make some shitty app and do a lot of easy leetcode questions right out of college. You learn a shit load on your first job, but don't let that scare you, once you get 2-3 years of experience, its unironically pretty easy after, anyway who says otherwise is fudding hard.

The days of bootcamp, self-taught are over, especially with this economy, but if you have a piece of paper, even from a degree mill, the market is still hot, just don't expect a high paying first job. It's still the absolute best field to go into right now imo.

>>49985493
Found the negroe.
Cope harder, subhuman.

>>49995832
youll be a good fit at hft/quant trading jobs, heard those test a lot on os/low level stuff, since they need good optimization. think places like hrt, jane street etc

>>49983686
>Demand, meet Supply

I work in VFX and have been for the past 6 years. I never expected to even do this kind of shit back when I was in uni. My projects involve creating some of the most random ass shit with shaders, or processing images to do motion tracking or other random shit, creating 3d rendering engines from scrap whenever the SDK we use decides to have a major update that fucks over all its users. While I like the job and pay, I feel like I have no transferrable skills at all should I decide to switch companies. I guess I should take solace that no fucking pajeet or nigger can ever do my job lmao.

>>49995832
If you are a dev in the us and don’t make at least six figures, you are either incompetent, autistic, or have no negotiating skills or you have <1yoe.

>>49995949
You have to be an autist to get into those kinda places, at least the ones you’ve named. The average candidate is someone that does competitive programming for fun and is a genius at math.
>>49996196
Depends on your location, in the Midwest it’s very possible to make less than 6 figures with a few years of experience.

>>49987428
>SOLID
>IoC
>Composition > Inheritance
These are baby level concepts. Are you actually making 160k on average for a year? If so then you may just be excellent at bullshitting.

Don't give up, I got an AI engineering position in Toyota even though I'm an Engineering grad and not CS. Free company housing in their headquarters in Japan too. $150k salary.

>>49992747
What actually happens is companies using ridiculous IQ tests, where they ask a super niche question which was an unsolved problem in mathematics in 1986, select for extremely autistic employees who are useless at dealing with people and solving real world human tasks. They usually also fail to work with others well and are prone to bad practices like gold plating and wasting time on toy coding. This is why such megacorps worship corruptions of agile where everyone gets little bite sized problems and are forced to communicate in stand ups every day, but they have no real control over priority or deadlines. It's sort of like programming day care with all the nannying over work, unless you're a in a lead position, in which case you become the one real adult at programmer day care and it's no more enjoyable.

>>49996590
You’re probably not going to be doing a lot of coding right? If you are, how the hell did you get a job like that?

>>49983857
>centering you entire education around a single point of failure that's amazon
based retard

>>49984798
Are you for fucking real? In Germany you do this in high school mathematics, an good engineer degree on a state university requires much harder mathematical skills here
No wonder that all idiots from my university did a semesters aboard in the anglosphere and came back with straight A's while struggling back at home
Only japs and chinks can be compared to our engineer degrees (at least in mathematically complexity)

>>49997629
Russian are good at math in the uni as well, but only when they learn the course, not just pass it.

God I hope we're due for another dot-com crash event even though I am a CS student. That would weed out all the midwits and in turn women

>>49994489
>>49993481
It is not about whether I can get A or not retards. Calculus is memorization basically. I know many nerds get A on calculus and cannot conprehend probablity. Because if you are smart instinctually you know all about probability, you dont need to study. Same for discrete. Other university math topics are basically some nerd found some nerd functions and you are applying it.

I got hired by a hedge fund for IT. Bombed the interview questions IT related since I didn't expect them to be asked. Still got hired. The trainer was some foreign black i couldn't understand and they were desperate to keep me hired. There was another black dude in training, but he was clearly gay. I said nah I'm good, the job sucks and the training is awful and they still kept trying to keep me. I still ended up leaving (during covid so all IT was done over the phone which is god awful. I wanted in person shit)

Long story short they were clearly trying to keep me as a hiring quota. It's always two cuck white dudes at the top that actually know their shit, then they hire a bunch of Indians and blacks. Horrible setup.

>work as codemonkey-architect hybrid for 6 years
>get "promoted" into a team lead role
>now babysit other codemonkeys and architects
>90% of the job is just answering dumb questions and leading stand-ups
>this somehows pays more than actually applying technical skills to solve problems
I will never understand how and why the fuck this is the case
looking for a new job rn because I can feel my technical skills rusting away in favour of babysitting and slinging corporate lingo

>>49995832
>>49996360
>You have to be an autist to get into those kinda places, at least the ones you’ve named. The average candidate is someone that does competitive programming for fun and is a genius at math.
this this this
prepare yourself for an unhealthy, autistic life

>>49996485
>These are baby level concepts. Are you actually making 160k on average for a year? If so then you may just be excellent at bullshitting.
You can BS your way to into far more than 160

>>49996590
>Don't give up, I got an AI engineering position in Toyota even though I'm an Engineering grad and not CS. Free company housing in their headquarters in Japan too. $150k salary.
How the fuck? I want
Did you apply online or was this some nepotism shit?
I'd give up my $250k remote gig for that

>>49997172
>>centering you entire education around a single point of failure that's amazon
while I have no certs, a little cert isn't ones "entire education"

>>49997812
>God I hope we're due for another dot-com crash event even though I am a CS student.
Let me just go ahead and burst your bubble: we're not.
here are a few factors you need to internalize:
1. the companies: Pets.com, eToys, Kozmo.com, UrbanFetch were the names in the dotCom era. Now you're dealing with FAGMAN which have ponied up the cash for a huuuuge portion of the world's technical talent,
Did pets.com have a team making AWS/GCP? Not even close. It was way more scammy and overvalued back then
2. Not only do we have high $ demand from FAGMAN tier comapnies, but EVERYONE ELSE from Ford to Walmart to Capital One and your local plumbing operation wants some software engineers now; they can barely hire properly, because the top takes all the talent

>>49984798
Troll post.

East and South East Asians dominate maths and hard sciences.

>>49984474
Not a single one of those companies was actually started or built up by indians. They're just put there as yes-men for the board once the actual builders leave without any expectation of innovating or doing anything out of their own initiative.

>>49998728
Americans worship niggers

>>49984093
>I've come to the conclusion than 97% of the world population gets filtered with calculus I and linear algebra.
Yeah this is true.
>t. mech. eng.
yeah yeah I know mechies get shat on, but it's the same scheme, 50% of cunts get dropped at calculus, the only reason it's not higher is because mech. eng. is like 97% men

>>49999063
Fagman is moderately overvalued but will be fine after dumping 20% of their employees. The big crisis is in the thousand VC powered startups which have been burning piles of cash with no plans to profit. Even big household name ones like Uber are running into trouble already with the rate hikes.
>EVERYONE ELSE ... wants some software engineers now
You're right about this, and you're right that in the medium term salaries for good talent aren't going down dramatically. But we probably will have a short term flood of poor quality workers who are getting dumped on the market by companies leaning themselves up for the recession.

>>49984982
>>49987661
>dudes can recognise a porn whore out in the wild even with her mask on
seek help, you're mentally damaged