/biz/ - Business & Finance

Idiot. You can request a history of ALL your trades. I leave that to an accountant

>>4992093
One of the coolest wrestling gimmicks of all time. The fucking Taxman. Awesome. What was his finish move?

>>4992192
Orbital audit

So if this is the case, who is the problem? Traders or the stupid government who make it impossible to invest? Idiot. Don't worry about it.

>>4992093
I've set up a service where anonymous people can buy information from my website using bitcoin.
I don't track anything.
It's a washing machine.

>>4992093

>mfw here it's undefined and nobody pays taxes on it

>>4992093
fuck you and the irs.
come and get me coppers.

>>4992337
k

show me exactly where it says that crypto-to-crypto is not like-for-like and that every trade gets taxed

>>4992337

>>4992384
If you are a burger, your trade has to get approved and stamped as "like-kinded" by the tax men to be tax free. Unless you get every single one of your crypto-to-crypto trades manually categorized as a like kinded exchange, then you're making taxable capital gains.

>>4992093
i will rather shoot some cops and et executed than paying tax on my crypto

this is the one thing the government cannot take even by force

>>4992521
Capital gains aren’t taxable unless realized you brainlet.

>>4993465
Idiots like you are why the gov will outlaw crypto and make us all broke or criminals.

HAHAHAHA

>Burgerland: The land of freedom


HAHAHHAHAHAHAHA

Fuck that, no IRS here to hound me down. I’ll just report capital gains when I cash out. I feel sorry for you burgers.

>>4992093
I have like 800k individual trades. I hope taxmen is happy when I mail them a fucking box of docs.

Can someone explain how exactly it's calculated?

Let's say I day traded a few times between BTC and fiat and made a slight BTC profit. Surely I'm not taxed as though I made the full profit every time?

So like I sell 1 BTC for 15k, go back in at a dip now a have 1.1 BTC. Then I do it again and have 1.2 BTC, etc. They aren't expecting me to pay taxes as if I made on 30k+ capital gains?

When you trade back in to BTC it's like a cost that gets deducted again, right?

Also, what happens if you gain in fiat but lose in BTC?

Like if I had 3 BTC when I originally bought last year, and now I have 2, but my 2 BTC is worth way more fiat. Can I claim a loss of whatever 1 BTC is worth?

IRS audits like 1% of tax returns filed. They are cripplingly understaffed. Look it up.

>>4993481
You're wrong, stop spreading this bullshit. A realized gain is disposing of your asset that has appreciated in value in return for another asset (that asset can be money, a crypto, stocks, etc.).

>>4993515
Nope, they were/are going to outlaw it either way, dumb fuck. Well not outlaw, but take it over, essentially outlawing imo. Anyone with common sense would see this is the direction this is all going. They probably have many crypto themed false flag events ready to go.

>>4993565

This, send them a goddamn phone book of trades for a $50k tax bill, they won't even bother looking and will just take your money and be done with it.

>>4992316
U talking about italy? I'm deom italy too

I heard that there's 0 tax if you cash out not more than 50k at week,is it true?

>>4992093
>being american
HAHAHAHAH ENJOY YOUR 50% TAXES YOU STUPID POOR THIRDWORLDERS

>>4993664
You are right.

>>4993645
statute of limitations

>>4992093
>implying most of /biz/ didnt take a lose and wont be deducting all of this from their taxes

I lost my Monero wallet keys, so I'll be claiming a huge deduction

I actually do keep track of all of them, after every exchange I fill out a tax form. I do all this in hopes that the IRS declares crypto as 1031 in the future from not wanting to deal with the forms

>>4994429
Something tells me "I lost my keys" will be a valid excuse to most, but not the tax man.

>>4992093

>>4993601
Every single transaction, including coin to coin you made will be taxed, yes they will tax you for pennies on the dollar and they will require all of these pennies add up because IRS. Hope you were keeping track!

>>4994938

I'm trying to do the taxes properly because it's not worth the trouble of avoiding, but I
m wondering if I trade into fiat and back to BTC for a slight BTC increase, is my "gain" to be reported the value of the extra BTC I made?

>>4994429
You need proof you lost your keys. If you think this is absurd, well there's the IRS for you. Otherwise anyone could just say "IRS I lost 500 bitcoins due to losing my wallet key, I would like my tax compensation now :^) "

>>4992209

topkek

>>4995000
How does one even prove you lost your wallet keys?

Im Dutch. We dont have to keep track of such things. I just have to report next year what I owned on 1 jan 2017. And then they assume I made 4% profit of that.

>>4994996
The transaction into fiat will be taxed because you're converting coin to fiat. The gain into BTC will be taxed because you made money transferring into BTC. Everything is taxed somehow.

>>4995085
Screenshots of your account beforehand with exact value that you lost present in the picture and then documents proving you owned the account. Didn't think to do this? Then RIP your tax compensation.

Life sounds like hell for you burgers. Here in Europe you can just move to Hong Kong or something for 6 months, then be taxed based on Hong Kong law. Basically you take a long vacation before cashing out big time, then move back.

>>4995105

But here's what I'm wondering: If I have 1 BTC worth 15k, I sell into fiat and buy a dip a few hours later so I now have 1.1 BTC. Surely I'm not taxed on taxes as though my capital gains income was 15k, which would result in me paying more tax then the 0.1 BTC is worth? If this was the case nobody could ever trade at a profit?

And if I then traded again and turned my 1.1 BTC into 1.2 BTC, it surely couldn't count as another capital gains making me pay taxes on 30k+?

>>4992384

Burger here, it's true - like kind only applies to real estate per latest tax code. Sucks for us but whatever still cakin' boi

>>4995296
GET IT THROUGH YOUR RETARDED HEAD

EVERY
SINGLE
TRANSACTION
IS
TAXED

No way I'm paying taxes on every trade. I'll pay taxes on what I cashed out directly into the bank account. I mined it all and have been hodling for years, that's my story. IRS can get fucked.

>>4995366
All I can say to the IRS is
Good luck fuckers

>>4995296
You’re taxed on the profit you made form
BTC->fiat (subtract basis from BTC price when selling)

You’re not taxed when you buy at the dip, that becomes your new basis

>>4993481

USA entry level accountant here, trading an asset that gained value for another asset is realizing gains you knucklehead. They teach you this shit in literally accounting 101

>>4995182
I bought some btc back in 2014-15 and “lost it” by sending it to an incorrect address. Obviously I don’t have the info because I closed down my coinbase account. Just concerned the tax man will tax me thousands of dollars on an asset I legitamtely no longer own.

>>4995444
Can you be taxed on a loss? Gambled on a few shitcoins back in summer time.

>>4995451
As long as you never profited or try and claim a loss they won’t care

Crypto is monopoly money

>>4995425

So if I bought 1 BTC at $1000, sell at $15000, I made 14000 profit. If I buy the dip and now have 1.1 BTC, I've basically lost money because the taxes on my 14000 will be higher than what 0.1 BTC was currently worth?

>>4995397
Just donate to the dnc and you’ll never get audited.
The IRS is a corrupt commie infiltrated swamp that needs to be dissolved.

>>4995397
HAHAAHHAHAHAHA screen capped. So this is how it goes down... NEVER, EEVVVVEEERRR try to fuck the IRS son.

>>4992093
>you can have my link tokens when you pry them from my offline paper wallet

>>4995493
So the btc I lost a few years ago I just shouldn’t mention? So just leave it be and not claim a loss? The profitable transactions I had from shitcoin to shitcoin I will have to report correct?

>>4992093
Luckily the IRS audits less than two percent of the population. If you're less suspicious than at least 2 percent of the population you're good.

And after you submit every single trade you must sign each page individually.

https://bitcoin.tax/faq

>>4995657
That isn't a legitimate capital loss, you can't claim a deduction for it, nor will they come after you to get it.

>>4995486

No, you only pay taxes on money you GAIN, THAT'S THE POINT REEEEEE

>>4992144
This 100%, I daytraded shares and it's the same.

Plus the ATO doesn't give a shit about all the Australian neets earning less then $30,000 a year in crypto gains. (June)

Sometimes i wish I was the ruler of the earth and could enact global laws, where I can cull people like OP.

*Smart people will just use Monero

>>4995812
Anyway to use Monero to buy giftcards?

>>4995882
I could cash out 1m+ worth of crypto under an hour; I'm not going to tell you how because you fuckers are are too autistic and will some how find a way to fuck it up.

>>4995366
Link?

>>4995968
It would be easier to cash out my crypto than shares. (If you're thinking Coinbase you won't make it)

Let's say I bought btc on gdax, then turn around and sell them on local coins. I get cash by Western Union or whatever. I deposit the cash into my checking account. Even if the tax man comes knocking, can't I say the cash was a gift and I lost access to those coins? There's no tax on gifts and you don't even have to mention it in your taxes if it's under $14,000.

>>4992093


Lol, catch me if you can. Im behind 7 proxies.

>>4995366
Even bitcoin to LTC?

>>4995623
What do you plan on doing with that screen cap? Send it to the irs saying someone online says that they don’t want to pay taxes? Fuck off

But we all buy high and sell low. Capital lost

>Paying taxes

Lmao nigga why the fuck is you in crypto in the first place bro

>>4992093
Why do you assume we all live in burgeristan?

>>4992093
the irs cant tax you unless you literally cash out.

kys op

>tfw only 7.5k in gains to date

No one gives a fuck about us small fry, we're basically tax exempt ;^)

>>4992093
all exchanges offer the option to show your trading history. you can check the blockchains for actual off-exchange transactions you've made. easy peasy. if you wanna daytrade, you gotta keep track of your trades.

>>4992093
I will be sending the irs an invoice thus year, because I only lost money

>>4995366
you fuckers are retarded. Yes you need to report every trade but you are only taxed on your GAINZ. If I buy 1 btc at 14000 and sell it at 17000. I now have to pay capital gains tax on the 3000 difference. Not the full value of Bitcoin. jesus Christ /biz/ is the dumbest board. 80% of you don't even read or dyor, you just take whats on here as is. idiots.

>>4992093
Only if you're from a retarded place like murica

When do they start taxing you? Isn't it once you make over $10,000 a year?

>>4992093
>Thinking that if I make an actual decent amount on money I cant just move to 0% tax land?

>>4992093
You could do it that way if you're a retard.
Just subtract what you put in from the final output as profit. It'll cover more than you'd actually need to pay in taxes anyways and the IRS will accept it. The only reason you'd want to document every transaction is if you're a jew trying to play the tax system game.

>>4992093

What is Bitcoin.tax?

What is cointracking.info?

>>4992093
Wow this meme is good until you look up US capital gains tax. I actually fell for it

>>4997611
what do you mean by this?

>>4992267
underrated

Murica tax style. Lol.

Denmark boys. 0%0

>>4995296

If your cost basis is 15k and you sell 1 BTC for 16.5k then you gained 1.5k and will be taxed on the gains. You spent the 16.5k on BTC back @ 15k and n92 have 1.1 BTC with a cost basis of 16.5k and taxable annual short term gains of 1.5k.

If you resell that for 18k you made a 1.5k gain from your 16.5k cost basis and then rebuying 1.2 BTC @ 15k means your new cost basis going forward for transactions is 18k, of which 3,000 is taxable gains. Get it?


FYI I'm extra fucked this year because I started this year, traded alt coins, mined a bunch of ether, and all of my transactions have basically a 0 cost basis.

I've currently got 100k in crypto and my combined family income will be ~250k before my crypto gains...

>>4997611
Doesn't count because bitcoin is considered a house. You're literally buy and selling houses and you expect to pay less than 50% per flip?

>>4992093
Fuck no. If I had enough money that the IRS cared, I would employ book keepers to do it for me.

The fucks an IRS? I don't live in the colonies

what's the best to avoid taxe ? to cash out i need to be relied to my bank account

>>4995776
lets say I make 10 trades and make $10 each trade. Then I make 10 trades and lose $10 each trade.
Do I still owe money even though overall I lost? or do you still have to pay every winner even if you lost it all in the end?

>>4992093
don't they only chase after people with accounts worth 20k+?

>>4992093

This is why you buy XMR people, no taxes.

If you ever need fiat you can cash out in small amounts and never pay taxes on any.

>>4992093
Why should the IRS care enough to come after me if I give them something using this formula?

>>4998153
this is the only way to do it really.

>>4998153
This. Otherwise you end up with 100 pages of trades that add up to $500 anyways.
See:
>>4997519

>>4996923
think again

what if you're a poorfag who's worked off the books and never paid taxes to begin with, and isnt making much money on this? should i be expecting a party van?

>>4998850
No

>>4998899
yay. if i ever do "make it" i'll contribute back to society, seeing how its actually taken care of me for a long time. gonna take a while though, im starting with table scraps and pocket lint

>>4992093
Good thing I live in Germany. No stupid laws like you have in the US.

>>4998850
Of course anon, they will mobilize hundreds of personnel for every single shitcoiner out there. They have literally one team of at least 20 people for each of you, they're tracking you right now. They can do this because they are funded by OP's ass which is incommensurable.

>>4998945
Lol yeah better not be a racist or say something wrong Hans or mama merkle will send you to a dungeon to get ass raped by a pack of niggers

>>4992093
Why should I pay taxes if there is no government regulations to protect investors in the first place?!

>>4997697
Have you cashed out?

>>4992192

The Write Off

>>4998945

Germany has even worse CGT on crypto than Burgerland does you fucking retard. Get fuckt.

Any Canadafags here that have actually cashed out? Is hard to find what I should do since pretty much nobody knows shit about it. Some say capital gains, others say barter tool. I have no clue.

>>4992093
You don't have to pay taxes if you are in the red.

>>4998986
I don't give a fuck about niggers or refugees. Unlike reporting each trades to the taxman, niggers and refugees don't directly affect my life.

I purposefully take a loss in crypto so the government owes ME money when I file.

what now bitch

>>4992093

Lawyer here. This is 100 true. The IRS tend to also be sloppy / aggressive when they breach a home to make arrests. Basically... expect to be flash/banged and if you have a dog it WILL be shot.

Pay your taxes.

>>4999079
What's CGT?

German laws state that you only need to pay tax if you cash out in less than a year. So if I hold more than a year, I can cash out with zero tax.

Or if I really need to cash out before holding a year, the limit is 600 EUR. If it's below the limit, no tax.

>>4999178
Germany also taxes you per trade unlike burgerland. You can post smug NEET pepes all you want but Merkel needs her Reichsmarks for those refugees.

>>4995678
what percentage do you think profited of crypto this year? More than 2%???

If you are involved with crypto you are instantly near the top of that 2%. Better do it right, or not at all.

im a poorfag(~15k/yr) thats only ever been paid through paypal which i sent to my bank. havent filed taxes since i left normie jobs 10 years ago. i spent my lifesavings (10k) on crypto recently.

at which point do i need to hire an accountant to figure this stuff out? im just a poor man baby that doesnt wanna lose my small amount of money to the taxman

>>4999298
>Germany also taxes you per trade unlike burgerland
Wrong, faggot. Cope harder.

>>4998008
curious about the answer to this

>>4995000
That's good, I have a video of myself "accidentally" flushing them down the toilet.

Just immediately trade fiat to bitcoin to shitcoin and when cashing out go shitcoin to fiat or something crypto then fiat. That would result in you only getting taxed on the direct gains and you wouldn't need to worry about the transfer problem, right? Your trading gains are 0 except that final cash out.

It seems you only get fucked if you're trading coins all over the place.

>>4999399
I hope the Gestapo goes easy on you

>>4999485
The Gestapo had nothing to do with taxes, you donkey.

not paying taxes is like not buying a train ticket
no one fucking cares just get off on the next stop

What about in cases where you dont have access to the money? Steemit has a steem power thing where it locks up the crypto for 12 weeks for you to get it all back out. I can afford to pay taxes on that. I don't have the money.

So how can I cash out without paying taxes as a burger? I am a poorfag who has <15000 invested. Havent done any day trading, but did purchase off coinbase with my account linked. If I just cashed out through a coin meetup and if the irs ever said anything I could just claim lost coins and show them a smahed laptop as proof? What about cashing out in the eu/canada? how will taxman catch if I am spending all my profits living abroad for a year? I already have a french bank acc in a diff name as I was in the FFL. Could I somehow use this to my benefit?

>>4997033
if u dont keep record of every transaction the irs assumes your cost basis for that individual transaction is 0, and taxes you the full amount. for each unrecorded transaction. aka ur fukd if no records.

>>4995366
>brainlet

>>5000624
That can kind of work in your favor. Just cash out the exact amount you started with, the market value of your remaining holdings is what you pay taxes on. If need be, cash out some of your holdings to pay the tax.

good thing i've just been buying high and selling low and don't have any gains to tax

take that IRS

>>4995526
Absolute moron.

>>5000624
literally one email and BOOM there are your records.

Biz is fucking retarded LMAO

>>4998008

From what I gather, the IRS gets to have it's cake and eat it too. You get taxed on your gains, but no deductions on your loses.

Really makes you think..

>>5001106
>Government: "Hey you guys, stop making fake money and trying to call it real money. Its all a scam. Really its a scam and you'll all lose money"
>9 years later
>Government: "Hey guys, so thats not scam or fake money at all. Its real money so you owe us. Why would you think that you don't owe us your money?"

>>4992093
If we are following the capital gains and losses rules for stocks, which is how crypto is classified by the IRS, then wash sales will wipe out most losses if you trade out of a coin and buy it back within 30 days. Is this true?

>>4998817
Doesnt mean shit, taxman doesnt give a fuck about 100k when theres alot more going on. Just think how many more people theyll have to track

>>4999460
That's called tax fraud anon.

>>5000032
If the fiat to purchase the coins or the coins are converted to fiat and have anything to do with a bank account in your name it IS taxable and traceable. It's not even difficult to do.

OK LETS SAY I LIVE IN AMERICA, BUT IM NOT A US CITIZEN, WILL I BE OFF THE HOOK??

>>5001987
Incorrect. You cannot buy items with stock. Crypto is a currency and is more closely associated with foreign currency like on the FOREX so it is treated and reclassified as an alternate currency. However, since crypto has no centralized governing party that actually means there's less rights for your cryptocurrency meaning more outrageous taxes and limitations can be applied to it once a government decides to do so.

>but Taxanon, if it's ungoverned how can the government touch it

It falls under their jurisdiction when you, a citizen of that particular government, owns the crypto.

>>5001106
>>4998008
Nah, you are wrong.
You can deduce your capital losses from your taxes.

>>5002489
Where did you find this information? It is classified as property not reclassified as an alternative currency.

>>5002683
I'm Taxman. The reclassification is coming in 2018. It was very foolish to originally classify it as property since you can use it as currency. There's talks of Amazon and Walmart possibly adopting Crypto in 2018 as payment options and if this goes through the classification must be changed beforehand. Expect the reclassification Q1 2018.

>>5002489
>However, since crypto has no centralized governing party that actually means there's less rights for your cryptocurrency meaning more outrageous taxes and limitations can be applied to it once a government decides to do so.

The same thing that makes it awesome right now will also be its death. This time next year, the gov will be seriously cracking down on large gains from 2014 to present (not outlawing it yet of course, because there is money to be made by the taxman).
By 2020, it will be entirely banned in Burgerland. This is literally the last hurrah for unregulated crypto. Next step is Gov Crypto. They'll essentially take the technology and run with it, tax the living fuck out of crypto currency traders until people demand a unified currency, and then we have world gov, just like that.

>>4992093
>Implying I can't move to some other country that doesn't give a shit about crypto and cash out there.

>>5001716
It's only a matter of time until they come after actual Warcraft gold. Trading in your MMOs will one day become a taxable event.

>>5002782
Thank you. What do I do this year? File an extension or file late next year? Will this be retroactive to 2017 and if not shouldn't I just bite the bullet and pay?

Thank you for your help.I want to pay taxes, as I don't want to be fined or jailed, but I literally have thousands of trades and hundreds with the same coin/s.

I'm only trading between BTC and altcoins, so I'm pretty sure I don't need to keep track of shit until I sell it for fiat. It should be considered "unrealized gains" until I cash out.

>>4992093
>implying i pay taxes

>>4992093
>You can expect your taxes to be roughly 300-1000 pages depending on how adderal fueled your daytrading is.

My trading alone is 2000+ pages per account. I probably have 10,000 pages of trades just in a year. some exchanges also wont let me withdraw. I cant pay even if I tried.

>>4998817
THIS SHIT WORRIES ME DAMNITWILL COINBASE REPORT MY ASS? I made like 900 bucks off ether and my YEARLy BTC and ETH gains total 221 taxed i used bitcoin.tax to do it. what do you anons think should i claim it? or leave it? mind you im neet so every once in a while my bank also gets a random 2-6k check from my relatives for me. I never report shit but what my w-2 says and i have been fine.