/biz/ - Business & Finance

Also I currently own no crypto. Mainly interested in discussing the tech

>>49376172
>Also, AFAIK Monero is not truly private.
>>picrel, ring signatures for probabilistic privacy

https://moneroinfodump.neocities.org/#RecognizingTraceabilityFUD
https://moneroinfodump.neocities.org/#RecognizingTraceabilityFUD
https://moneroinfodump.neocities.org/#RecognizingTraceabilityFUD
https://moneroinfodump.neocities.org/#RecognizingTraceabilityFUD
https://moneroinfodump.neocities.org/#RecognizingTraceabilityFUD

>>49376203
>Own no crypto
Talking about crypto... Start owning something and using it before talking.

>>49376499
I've owned it in the past and will own it in the future. Just not now for personal reasons.
>>49376364
I need to do more research. However, my gut feeling tells me that true anonymity simply isn't possible.
>https://imgur.com/71wbted
I do think seeing bitcoin as non fungible is very interesting. But dollars are non fungible as well. Sure, hard to track sometimes, just like bitcoin and XMR. That's why anti money laundering budgets are getting bigger and bigger for banks and governments.
For dollars, real or online, it's almost always possible to track the transactions made with it, same holds for crypto. Eventually of course you reach a threshold where realistically it isn't possible to track anymore, only in theory.

>>49376590
Yeah, my gut feeling says you're retarded

just buy LINK faggots nothing else matters

>>49376172
>>49376590
It's not just ring signatures my dude.

> I need to do more research.
Yup, I suggest you lurk more in the XMR general or, God forbid, the Monero subreddit.

>>49376674
All the infographics i've seen are the same, it's hard to trace, diffusion etc. But not untraceable or truly anonymous. All anonymity is pseudonymity.
The advantage of XMR is the updating though, that turns it into an arms race. But that's the advantage of things like the ethereum ecosystem, their desire to adjust to the status quo, sacrificing on security and privacy in favor of regulation, KYC and less energy emissions allows the token and its smart contract ecosystem to thrive by growing within the borders of the status quo.
Unfortunately, in my opinion there will never be enough demand to transform into a truly decentralized ecosystem. It's human nature that most people are moderates not looking for quick change.

While this attitude is absolutely for cucks, unfortunately it is the one that will win. Maybe I'm too much of a doomer, but it's simply too easy to get people scared.
True for crypto as a whole as well. They would rather send your children to wars, cause famines and more instead of giving up power.

>>49376921
>>All the infographics i've seen are the same, it's hard to trace, diffusion etc. But not untraceable or truly anonymous. All anonymity is pseudonymity.

What part of "addresses & amounts never touch the blockchain" is confusing to you?

>>49376921
> All anonymity is pseudonymity.
No, pseudonymity is about whether or not you can link a identity of one network to another, like say a Bitcoin identity to a real world one.
With anonymity however, each state update on the same network essentially creates a new identity, and thus it becomes about whether or not these can be linked together, rather than linking a particular one to that of another network.
For instance the Monero identity that sent xx.x XMR and the one that sent y.yy.

> The advantage of XMR is the updating though, that turns it into an arms race. But that's the advantage of things like the ethereum ecosystem
True, I think you can draw parallels between Bitcoin vs Ethereum and Monero, and constitutional democracy vs developmental democracy. The first may be more stable, but the latter could turn out to be more resilient due to the constant adapting, we'll see.
It should also be noted that the economics of Ethereum is more akin to Keynesianism, while Bitcoin and Monero is based on the Austrian School of economics, which again makes this competition between them very interesting, especially since Ethereum (as opposed to most governments) will implement Keynesianism right and actually burn the money supply too, rather than just endlessly inflating it.

> Unfortunately, in my opinion there will never be enough demand to transform into a truly decentralized ecosystem. It's human nature that most people are moderates not looking for quick change.
This may be true for Bitcoin, but at least Monero has P2Pool and Ethereum has Rocketpool.

>>49376172
First you need to decide whether you live in the real world or in a fantasy world where utopia is possible. If you live in the real world then you probably understand that technology is something that evolves over time. The technology that we use today will certainly not be the same 100 years from now. Taking this into consideration you can adopt a stance in which then no digital currency is worthwhile today, because all the technology that exists today is certainly inferior to the technology 100 years from now.
But if you are able to think rationally you will be able to see how retarded such a stance is.
Monero today offers what is probably the best possible combination of elements for a secure, decentralized digital currency that gives you extremely strong privacy guarantees.
If it bothers you because it is not "truly anonymous" in the definition that something should be anonymous yesterday, today and forever and ever until the end of time, then you live in fantasy world and any argument and rationalization on my part will be futile.
The best sign you can get is to see what "bad actors" are currently doing in the digital world. If you go into the deep web and check the forums to see what recommendations and currencies are used, you will quickly see what currency is unanimously promoted in these media. These people risk their lives daily by using such technology. You can use that as a seal of approval if you want.
There is also record of law enforcement assuming that they cannot track Monero. The most popular was in a Europol presentation where the officer literally talks about it being possible to track criminals via bitcoin, litecoin, etc but when they migrate to monero is where the investigation dies.
So it really depends on your interpretation, your point of view, what you believe is rational or not, how you believe the future will be developed, etc. If you want to go on with "absolute definitive true anonymity" be my guest.

>>49376590
My gut feeling says you suck cock and gargle cum.

>>49377133
>zero-knowledge tech should eventually replace ring signatures altogether
Now that is exciting. For now, it seems that ring signatures are indeed a glorified shell game. But they are decoys with ever increasing difficulty.


I do prefer XMR over any other crypto. But ETH has advantadges. Eventually it is bound to turn into a fractional reserve, derivatives market though.

The biggest FUD is still government for me.
Mixers are already being made illegal.
Soon using XMR might be so as well. If in the government eyes the only use cases are avoiding taxes and buying drugs, it makes sense for them to ban it.

As for fungibility, I much prefer the comparison of gold rather than the non fungible dollar.
That's also where the petrodollar/CBDCs tie in: why would a government use stable currencies? That's not how you get an empire

>>49377379
>glorified shell game
It's a shell game reinforced by stealth addresses and confidential transaction amounts, all set up trustlessly, backed by the best proof of work tech the cryptosphere has to offer developed by a team committed to open source coding. It really, quite literally, doesn't get any better than Monero as far a digital cash is concerned.

>>49377379
> Mixers are already being made illegal.
> Soon using XMR might be so as well.
Hopefully we won't have to care by then:
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jj8rd4WOEy0
- https://unstoppableswap.net/
- https://sethforprivacy.com/guides/bitcoin-monero-atomic-swaps/
- https://sethforprivacy.com/guides/run-an-atomic-swap-provider-advanced/
- https://www.monerooutreach.org/stories/monero-atomic-swaps.html
- https://github.com/Crypt0-Bear/xmr-eth-swap-playground
- https://bitcoincashresearch.org/t/monero-bch-atomic-swaps/545

>>49376590
There is no such thing as perfect privacy. This is true and anybody telling you otherwise is a liar.
Monero ring signatures do have some drawbacks, so if you are paranoid you should get nonkyc Monero. The point though is that with Monero the amount you own can't be seen and if you are just using Monero as you please the idea that your transactions can be probabilistically traded is absurd. It's more like if you are a high profile target they will do poisoned output drops on you through kyc exchanges but they would also rely on a honeypot and repeated transactions (to assure higher probability that it is you). But if you are just a small fish this is the least of your worries. Monero solves the very basic issues of transparent ledger privacy and additionally solves the other major issues (high tx fees, Asic miner monopolies, base layer scaling).

>>49377356
Great post.

>>49377379
>The biggest FUD is still government for me.
Mixers are already being made illegal.
Ironically most of the delisting is not because of governments but because of lobbying from chain analysis companies.

>>49378595
Sorse?