/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>4637069
how do you justify the price of an ounce of gold?

>>4637069
blind fomo

DIGITAL GOLD BRO. 1 MILLION BY 2018 XDD

but seriously- greater fool theory

The crash gonna be the biggest bloodbath in the history of mankind

Tether manipulation.

>>4637069
This is a landrush and people want to get stakes down even though the land could one day be Los Angeles, but could one day be Detroit

Worth the price and the risk bakabakabaka

>>4637092

Well, through the bulk of antiquity up until governments became less reliant on the gold standard, gold was an easily traded commodity whose value came from the rarity of the precious metal, the malleability, and the beauty of it.

>>4637092
Industrial uses

>>4637092

What kind of device did you just type that on right now? A printing press?

The money from btc should flow into alts right?

t. Alt bagholder

>>4637128

Yep.

>>4637069
Everyone wants it because the price keeps increasing.
The price keeps increasing because everyone wants it.

It's a beautiful

>>4637259

Is that healthy or sustainable?

>>4637259
the opposite will happen when it starts to crash, bagholders will be fucked.

>>4637282
Does that sound healthy or sustainable to you?

where will all the money go when bitcoin inevitable crashes? will the $170 billion just evaporate? OwO

>>4637198
ok il stop i just got btfo. my bad

>>4637282
In this world everything has an end, everything must die

The point is to enjoy it while the moment lasts

>>4637309

I have to say I like the sentimentality about discussing this. We all know it's going to crash but we're not doing anything about it.

>>4637322
People will no longer believe it to be that valuable so it will no longer be that valuable.

>>4637069
THE JEWS DID THIS

nothing is worse anything less than what people are willing to pay for it
a very significant portion of our economy these days is speculation based on what completely unprofitable entities and assets might be worth in the future, and while I'd agree with you if you take issue with that Bitcoin is by no means unique and the only thing that matters in the end is successfully exploiting human behavior for profit

>>4637324

Holy shit, someone admitted being wrong on 4chan.

Bless you anon. Bless you.

>>4637069
The price of BTC reflects the demand and supply for a pseudo anonymous currency out of immediate reach of the government. It doesn't need justification

>>4637259
whats the US deficit look like?

>>4637422

>>4637092
Historical precedent.

Also, anyone can create bitcoin 2. No one can create gold 2 because the laws of physics prevent that and you're not god.

>>4637259
That's like...the exact opposite of beautiful. The fuck mate.

>>4637501
But it's not Bitcoin 2, just like me scribbling on a piece of paper isn't USD 2. That's be beauty of a transparent currency enforced solely by majority rule.

>>4637069
The supply is too low to meet the demand.

>>4637069
it's the only asset in history that truly has a hard limit on the amount that can exist. It will go up forever.

>>4637324
>>4637422

>>4637166
Bitcoin is an easily traded commodity whose value comes from the rarity of it, the speed of transaction settlements, and the ability to do this without financial institutions.
A little more solid to me than pretty metal.

>>4637501
> No one can create gold 2 because the laws of physics prevent that and you're not god.

DAAAAAAAMN Bitcoin's store of value meme literally got BTFO.

>>4637650
hahahaah you must really be fucking stupid

>>4637650

I would disagree that at this moment it is an easily traded commodity, and the value doesn't come from the rarity of it either. I would argue and hypothesize that the value at the moment is a result of explosive growth, media attention, and general FOMO from new investors who have seen an unprecedented rise. Crpyto "investment" courses are popping up all over the places. Additionally the current technological/economic (POW/energy consumption) restrictions that will probably never be solved in the foreseeable future tells me that it really isn't solid as we think it is.

>>4637650
>Bitcoin is an easily traded commodity whose value comes from the rarity of it, the speed of transaction settlements, and the ability to do this without financial institutions.

Uhh yeah, with no barrier to entry... Which is why there are so many competitors, who are we to say whether or not bitcoin will be the dominant coin in X years?

speculation on exponential growth that was value based before august 1st

>>4637069
Waiting for the crash. Will be hilarious when people go from rich to poverty within a few seconds

>>4637763
>POW/energy consumption
Found the communist

Stop telling other people how to spend their money, statist vermin

>>4637813
Anon I've been waiting a long time for the crash now. I don't think it's coming.

>>4637839

Thanks for contributing to the discussion. I'd love to hear your argument about the increase of power consumpion

>>4637069
the price of anything is based solely on confidence

>>4637862
Sure. It goes like this: "If people want to spend $100,000 buying electricity in order to obtain an asset worth $110,000 then let them - it's there money".

Whereas your argument is "How DARE people spend their money other than as I would wish it? Why, they're even buying bottles of milk without checking in with me that that's okay first WTF"

hth

>>4637936

Didn't really say anywhere that people should be buying "x" or "x" and not "x", not sure where you got that from. Can you quote me somewhere?

It feels like something is going to explode.

>>4637069
Why do I have to justify that, or anything else to you? I'm just a humble trader, making a quick buck here, and a quick buck there. You can ponder the meanings.

>>4637981
Sure:
>Additionally the current technological/economic (POW/energy consumption) restrictions that will probably never be solved
You've asserted that energy consumption is a restriction that needs to be solved. That consumption is problem for the individual paying for it, not a social (or other-than -individual) problem. If that's not what you meant to say, perhaps you could rephrase it?

>>4638074

All i stated was that it's a growing problem, and never once said "this con outweighs the benefit of mining."

>>4637069
>~21 million coins
>3-6 million people owning digital currency
>can be used to make payments online or even in other countrys without having to do an exchange to local currency

>>4638122
It's a growing problem, you say. And what is the nature of this problem? And who is it a problem for? Your skirting the issue opens you up to being misread

>>4638021
tfw too intelligent

I don't. BTC is a piece of shit that doesn't deserve to be priced this high

Doesn't mean I'm not gonna ride up to the top these retards are building for us

>>4637128
What's it gonna crash to? 8k? 7k? 6k? 5k?
Who fucking cares if it does... that's where it was a couple months ago.

>>4638217
the so-called "investors" who lose money, i would imagine.

>>4638250
Yeah until it's up another 800% in the next year

>>4637936
>there money
Back to the brainlet containment board. >>>/pol/

>>4638271
the value wont recover once the bloodbath begins

So NONE of you are holding bitcoin?? I was about to buy some....

If not whats yer spread? I have $100k and don't know what to put it into. I want to be able to retire in 15 years

>>4638465
ETP.

>>4638465
all into XMR obviously

>>4637069
it's literally because it's by far the most expensive to attack. any non-brainlet should understand this

>>4638531
it is the most secure computer network on the planet

>>4638432
Same was said about mtgox and the China fud crash

>>4637763
Energy consumption isn’t a real issue.

Tragedy of the commons doesn’t matter for a decentralized cryptocurrency

What's your plan if the crash ever happened /biz/?
Go fiat?
I'm thinking to save my assets to ETH, but it could went down too yeah, fuck man...

>why is the TCP/IP of global finance limited at 21 million shares going up?

>>4637171
>muh industrial uses
literally 5% of the marketcap

>>4637395
>muh crash

>>4637501
No, not anyone can create bitcoin 2, which is precisely why bitcoin keeps going higher.

By the time you realize this fact you will have killed yourself.

sometimes things just be that way dude. maybe bitcoin will become a million for no reason just like diamonds are valuable but not rare. theres no logic to any of this

>>4639564
FUCKING THIS

>>4639654
you're right, and I'm scared right now

How do you justify the price of USD?

>>4637501
>Also, anyone can create bitcoin 2.
Just 2 blocks before activation, all B2X nodes froze on block 494782. The crashed nodes were caused by a technical error in the code. This is exactly what happens when you try to eliminate the extensive peer review process in Bitcoin development and replace an entire team with a single part time developer.
People often criticize the BTC dev team for being slow, but that's to avoid shit like that happening. If that had gone live if everybody in the world was using BTC, that would have caused hundreds of billions of dollars in economic damage.

>>4639654
but bitcoins are rare? there's only 21 million of them out there.

>>4637128
Also when the bitninjas buy up the sweet cheap coins before the following surge to 15K

>>4637097
/thread

>>4638217
More like a couple weeks ago

Unironically, digital gold. People pay $20,000 for "super rare" gun skins that just change the way guns look in games. Young people are leaning more and more towards the digital world and VR. When VR starts to overtake reality, who is going to care about physical gold? Bitcoin IS GOLD.

>>4639803
true, actually I think thats something which people easily forget about. just makes it a lot more likely it's going to go up and up

>>4640217

Does this mean EBST could have a pump? I think it's a sleeping giant. Look how spooky the chart is on 1 day zoomed all the way out. Someone tell me wtf is going on with it. disclaimer: i hold no ebst.

I don't care anymore. I just want to get off this ride. As soon as I break even, I'm getting the hell out.

>>4637501
Idiot

Nobody else can create an economically utilized (therefore wealth-storing) blockchain longer than Bitcoin's, that's how time itself and entropy work

You don't understand and you never will.

>>4637092
I don't

>>4637777
How many coins are even remotely close to being listed on real-world financial instrument exchanges? Only BTC

You don't understand how important first-mover advantage and public acceptance is. Betamax vs. VHS

>>4638465
Don't listen to any of these fucking retards

Buy BTC and nothing else. At most allocate 10% of your crypto holdings to alts, but only high market cap ones. Don't be retarded

I have almost 6 figures of pure BTC that I paid barely anything for. BTC is the best choice.

i was an early invester in bitcoins, i bought 10 million $ worth back in 2010

as an celebration for my wealth, im giving away 1 bitcoin to the first 25 anons to post their address, and 0.5 to the last 25

TCP/IP of Money

>>4638465
find 10 people who own free and clear houses that want to sell. Convince them to do seller financing and give each one 10k to walk and make payments to them for a few hundred below current market rent.

During the time you're making payments to them, offer them chunks of money - for example $5,000 to take off $7,000 from the balance - and at the end of 15 if you hang on, you'll have 10 free and clear houses hopefully paying your rent of around $1000.

$10,000 a month passive income is more than enough to retire living a modest lifestyle.

>>4638465
Just remember that 90% of the people on this board are either pajeet or underage.

>>4640431
>At most allocate 10% of your crypto holdings to alts, but only high market cap ones. Don't be retarded

All alts are risky. It doesn't matter if they're high market cap or not.

>>4640650
I know, that's why I said 10% of crypto holdings. But the smaller market cap coins are more likely to be scams because they have no history of being used by others. Look at all of the literal scam-coins on /biz/ propped up by spam bot networks online.

>>4637069
scarcity
supply and demand
deflationary currency
it's really not that hard

Fuck you I'm rich, that is how I justify the price of BTC. The autistic screeching of /biz/ about how your favorite shitcoin that you are bagholding is better than BTC, is and will continue to be totally irrelevant. There is no law of economics that BTC is violating. Sorry you lads were late to the game and I do know it is possible to make good money on alts too, but fucking deal with BTC being the king as again your autism is powerless to change that.

Network effect, first coin advantage, its honey badger nature, deflationary, scarce, supply and demand, and yes the dev team is second to none. It is just hard to upgrade BTC because it is so successful, but core will manage to scale BTC and advance it from there.

>>4637171

Then why isn't copper worth ten thousand times more than Gold?

>>4641124
>first coin advantage
Napster and Myspace were first too. Ask Jeeves, he'll tell ya.

>>4640364
You really think that the hyperelite Jewish families that have control over the world's currencies couldn't just pump their own blockchain? Bitcoin is backed entirely by hype and trust in the mob, just like John Bogel says. Stocks generate earnings and dividends, gold at least has 5000 years of history, and the USD has the entire military industrial complex as well as the police state forcing people to use it. If the mass media (owned by guess who) decides to shill against bitcoin and pump some other shitcoin, then guess what, no one will use bitcoin.

Bitcoin isn't even useful as a currency any more given that a single transaction takes a house-week's worth of computing power. It's a giant game of musical chairs at this point.

>>4637128
you right

>>4640916
WHO ARE YOU

>>4641280
You're an idiot, the media is continually shilling against it all day long. I just watched a bloomberg segment on TV and they were only talking about bubbles the whole time

>>4641313
Bitcoin episode on Big Bang Theory Thursday.

All aboard Normies!!!

>>4637128
I'll be probably horrendous, but it will climb again

>>4641280
Not all stocks pay dividends. And the price of a given stock doesn't necessarily reflect the earnings or operations of a company. Have you ever even bought stocks before?

>>4641512
>Sheldonnnnn, {LAUGH_TRACK} you deleted your wallet {LAUGH_TRACK} because it was on your desktop {LAUGH_TRACK} and your OCD made you want to clean it all of a sudden? {LAUGH_TRACK} {LAUGH_TRACK} {LAUGH_TRACK} {LAUGH_TRACK}
>*le sheldor pursed lip turtle face* {LAUGH_TRACK} {LAUGH_TRACK} {HYSTERICAL_LAUGH_TRACK}
>No.
>{LAUGH_TRACKLAUGH_TRACKLAUGHTRKACLALATUHTACKTHALHGLA

>normies heads explode in a comedic orgasm
>bitcoin dies because there's nobody left to invest in it

>>4641280

>trustless currency
>backed entirely by hype and trust

fucking brainlet

>>4637069
How do you justify the price of a 4'x4' in Manhattam?

>>4641688
>fucking brainlet
great rebuttal - very well thought out. Excellent insight in to your comment. Isn't it past your bedtime?

>>4638211
kek
just incrementally raising my stop orders

>>4641762

A comment as idiotic as yours deserves no more of a reply. Go back and re-read to understand why saying a trustless currency is backed by trust is retarded

>>4637128
>>4637069
>>4637097
>>4637109
Bcashsters btfo

This run right now can't be sustainable, big correction is coming.

>>4640450
pls help

1BFdf5Pe3YHVS83pyytDhAXYLHhrHn4Wfi

>>4637936
*their

>>4640400
Betamax had no competitive edge over VHS, that is not the case with altcoins.

Saul could be over run by starving commies at any min
Korean normie needs his assets in a safe place so he can drop everything and flee.

>>4643197
...Betamax was by far the superior media format, that's the meme

Altcoins have no competitive edge because they have no network yet

BTC is just the ultimate test of human greed.

You have to realise when people are getting too greedy and cash out then otherwise you'll get caught in the rush to cash out and then it's already too late, theres only a limited few BTC>fiat gateways that will quickly be overloaded and go offline.

I hold a shit ton of crypto too but deep down we all know its the truth..

>>4637069

How do you justify the price of Gucci bags? How do you justify the price of Yeezys?

>>4637069
by how much someone is willing to pay for it

>>4643348
Err, it had better picture quality, sure, but the VHS was cheaper to produce and therefore could gain more marketshare which had a snowball kind of effect since hollywood will go with the format that has more marketshare.

Bitcoin fees are high, and it's only true advantage is the widespread adoption of it because it was the first.

>>4643425
thanks for that insight. you are right.

>>4638217
More sub-1k.

You realize Bitcoin is a shot coin, right? If it weren't for the fact that it has a huge market cap, noone would care for it.

>>4637069
How do you justify your pointless existence?

>>4637069
half to pay into all those mining expenses
>10,000

>>4643760
Get a load of this Altcoon cocksmoke

>>4643765
I was compelled to existence against my wishes.

>>4643870
If you had any decency you'd end it.

>>4637069
Bitcoin is being shilled to normies on coast to coast and the big bang theory to combat operation dragon slayer.

>>4643887
The continuation of that existence is different. For now there are coins to trade and shitposts to make.

>>4638217
I WISH I COULD TURN BACK TIME
TO THE GOOD OL DAAYS

>>4637069
How do you justify price?

>>4641313

This is what I'm concerned about too. Everyone calls Bitcoin a bubble. Everyone.
Isn't that a weird bubble where everyone says it's a bubble? Even the people who actually have Bitcoin believe it will pop some day.
I've never seen an asset that's been subjected to more skepticism than Bitcoin. There is no Bitcoin hype among normies. Normies don't own Bitcoin. It's all sceptics. Yet, it increases in value DESPITE of that. It's like the exact opposite of a bubble. Something like this has never existed before.

The average person doesn't even understand how Bitcoin works. The average banker can't even operate a computer properly. People are way too afraid of Bitcoin and it's not like your Boomer uncle tells you to invest in Bitcoin because you'll be set for life.

No, normally when you're in a bubble investment people get fucking ANGRY if you call it a bubble. People are overexcited and ignore all facts. But the opposite is happening with Bitcoin. The people do not want to believe that it is not a bubble. Every single person calls it a bubble, but it still increases in value.

It's fucking weird man. User adoption is still 0.1% of the population. There hasn't been a mania phase yet and it's still underground.

It's just inexplicable to me

>>4641313

This is what I'm concerned about too. Everyone calls Bitcoin a bubble. Everyone.
Isn't that a weird bubble where everyone says it's a bubble? Even the people who actually have Bitcoin believe it will pop some day.
I've never seen an asset that's been subjected to more skepticism than Bitcoin. There is no Bitcoin hype among normies. Normies don't own Bitcoin. It's all sceptics. Yet, it increases in value DESPITE of that. It's like the exact opposite of a bubble. Something like this has never existed before.

The average person doesn't even understand how Bitcoin works. The average banker can't even operate a computer properly. People are way too afraid of Bitcoin and it's not like your Boomer uncle tells you to invest in Bitcoin because you'll be set for life.

No, normally when you're in a bubble investment people get fucking ANGRY if you call it a bubble. People are overexcited and ignore all facts. But the opposite is happening with Bitcoin. The people do not want to believe that it is not a bubble. Every single person calls it a bubble, but it still increases in value.

It's fucking weird man. User adoption is still 0.1% of the population. There hasn't been a mania phase yet and it's still underground.

It's just inexplicable to me.

>>4644401
>Even the people who actually have Bitcoin believe it will pop some day.

I mean we all know BTC is an old and busted dinosaur of a coin, and that there are a ton of alts that do its job better. I'd honestly be happy for a bubble pop because that means there's potential for something better to take over

>>4637501
gold 2 is silver gold 3 is platinum gold 4 brass etc

>>4644361
>It's just inexplicable to me
Its just slowly stepping into the future bro. People dont know how to deal with it, because they dont know whats happening as theyve never seen anything like it in their lives before.

>User adoption is still 0.1% of the population
Isnt that number taken from number of existing wallets? Cous then it would be waaay lower.

>>4644428
Yeah, we do. Logic would tell us, that at some point normies will FOMO into the other coins, that are already superior, but not getting any attention due to the fact that there are 9000 other shitcoins in existence. Give it a year and it will sort out.

However, I also think if BTC crashes, all alts will crash as well, as it usually is the case. I even think about pulling out my money very soon and just wait for a big dip. Eventually it will come.

>>4644361
Haha holy shit

Beautifully written

I'm even skeptical of it being a bubble deep down inside and am trying to be very careful, but also I know that mathematically this is like we're discovered the philosopher's stone of economics

I know for a fact that are alien civilizations off somewhere making heavy use of blockchains, be they PoW or PoS, whatever. This is a given.

>>4644401
>>4644623
Also, I think this will be way bigger than we think

Everyone, even the BTC fanatics, continually underestimate BTC. Even the most optimistic predictions did not predict this, and there is no end in sight.

It's the first global currency. All the people in shit-tier militaristic dictatorships will go all in on BTC even if it has 50% daily volatility because guess what, that's still superior to their currencies which are inflating multiple times a day

This is the real deal, this is actually an important tool for society to bring economic stability and equality to the world, not just some investment

>>4644468
>>4644401

Yeah user adoption is very likely even much lower than the guesses.
We are all fucking early adopters

>>4644667

I agree. I tend to think that I'm optimistic with my Bitcoin value estimates (said it was gonna maybe break 10k by EOY if we're lucky) and now it's November and it already beat my expectations.

Even the enthusiasts are skeptics, me included, but shit Bitcoin beats every prediction. 100k by EONY might actually be a severe underestimation

>400% in 4 months
its totally normal goy nothing to fear

daily reminder that you're a total fucking normie if u buy at $10k+

>>4637069
meatcoffe's law

>>4644833
>Daily reminder you're a total fucking meme if you buy at $2k+

I remember it like it was yesterday

Keep getting cucked by BTC's gains anon.

>>4644881
Also, the price of one individual Bitcoin is pretty meaningless. What matters is the value of the entire ecosystem.

Look at stocks. Companies very, very, very often engage in stock splits to keep the numbers low and palatable, even though investors are buying fractions of fractions of what the stocks actually represented in the olden days with respect to dividend outputs

Look at BRK.A (Berkshire Hathaway Class A Stock). It's $280,440 for one, that's because it has never split. You have to think in percentages, not real values.

>>4637069
how do you justify the price of the oxygen you are breathing?

If you don't believe me or don't understand, I don't have the time to explain it to you.

-Satoshi Nakamoto

>>4637145
underrated, see blockchain as a new land to discover. I love your analogy

>>4644881
except it was a massive dip when it was 2k and not ath like its now
fomo is going wild, do you feel it?

>>4637860
it can't happen when we're expecting it.

>>4645001
don't pretend we weren't expecting it to crash to 5k from 7800

>>4644461
And they all have uses outside of currency.

There is literally over 800 shitcoins being traded right now and counting

>>4644912
But they do that because as a company grows, so does it's profit meaning a greater dividend.

Crypto doesn't produce anything so there are no dividends

BTC will be effectively digital gold. Transaction speeds are too low to handle the volume now, nevermind if blockchain is adopted globally.

Something else, be it ETH, ARK, BCH or something else will take the role of a 'peer to peer payment system'.

BTC will hold some monetary value, just not its principle. The question is which coin will step up and take over.

>>4641313
don't you see man, the whole point of bitcoin is to blow as big of a bubble as possible, then pop it on the sheep. Yeah it'll devastate the sheep. But that's the only way to hurt the shepards. if we dont take the sheep's wool for ourselves the shepards will just keep dominating the sock and sweater market like they always have

>>4645034
Big deal it recovered super fast

>>4645102
thats why you buy the dip and not ath, fucktard
BUY HIGH SELL LOW

>>4645101
don't you see man, if bitcoin grew into a bubble that enveloped the sheep, they would have a self sustaining currency that exists outside of the reach of governments and those capable of censoring it

If BTC is a bubble and it becomes a large bubble, it has accomplished its purpose - to make central banking and fiat currency obsolete - regardless of monetary losses or profits that occur to early adopters

The entire financial sector can be utterly wiped out if we make use of blockchains correctly. Do you even comprehend how important this is? No more stock brokers, no more bankers, none of that. It's all done for

If you don't understand I don't have time to explain it to you, you're wrong and this is extremely important for humanity.

>>4645148
That means war. Big wars will happen.

>>4645034
that's barely a crash (20-30% is a major correction for bitcoin), and definitely not a bubble popping. That's actually an example of my point. It didn't actually crash, because we were all waiting. It didn't hit 5k anyway, except on bearstamp.

>>4643425
Sage advice, friendo. Just one problem with it.
You literally CAN'T cash out.

>>4643348
First generation VHS recorded for up to 2 hours. First generation betamax recorded just one hour.
Therefore, VHS owners could record movies.
That's why it won.

The "betamax was better" meme was created to identify dummies.

>>4645148
uh, yeah, I saw it 6+ years ago actually. I waited until I was pretty sure there was no way getting involved could end up sending me to prison, so I only 25xed instead of 500x. Oh well, I'm not in prison and can cite all my crypto, instead of having to worry about being associated with black market/money laundering funds. I also held off on alt-coin markets for the same reason.

It's okay, I'd rather do it the hard way. 2000xing a $3000 loan(only funds i could have scraped up as a part time dishwashing 21 year old college dropout sounds as) sounds about as psychologically damaging as winning the lottery.

>>4643425
this 100%

>>4645063
People value things that other people value.
You get it?

>>4638465
Buy CSGO skins

>>4638271
the majority of people here can't even hold an altcoin overnight, but hold bitcoin for over a year? nah, I don't think so, tears will be shed anon.

>>4646077
Yeah people liked fidget spinner a couple months ago too

>>4645094

>>4645094
IOTA. Look at the partnerships and the tech and tell me it's not gonna be