/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>4186679
By Q1 2018 latest q4 likely

>>4186691
How do you think the token price will react to the lending service opening?

>>4186717
No one knows
Good buy tho

>>4186679
>salt
You are NEVER EVER. EVER. Going to make it

>>4186679
They have confirmed in the Slack that it is launching in December. You ARE going to make it.

>>4186817
Arguments?

>>4186838
Wow that's pretty soon man. thought for sure it was Q1 2018 or something due to the low price of the tokens.

Heard they are selling 1 SALT for $25 on their own website.

Know any possible competitors for Salt? Or any reason why this might fail?

I already bought 1000 Salt because I thought in the worse case scenario I would just use it myself to loan some money.

>>4186679
I love salt desu. Cant wait to borrow enough to pay off all my student loans in full and have a lower APR on my loan.

>>4186878
>arguments
NEVER EVER. EVER.

>>4186886
That's a pretty smart idea desu.

>>4186888
No really I want to hear why you think Salt is crap.

>>4186955
I have none, it looks like a decent coin that I missed

>>4186955
Presale investors got salt for .25.

>>4186679
>buy first ask questions later
lmao. you're very luck you will probably be okay with salt.

>>4187002
Yeah I wanted to have enough SALT because I wanted to use this service to take out a fat loan every time bitcoin takes a dive so that I can accumulate more bitcoin than normal at those times.

If the token goes up in value that's just a plus.

>>4186878
https://twitter.com/saltlending/status/922921511366692864

>>4186986
That's a harsh one but I'd guess if those investors wanted to step out they did so already considering the price of SALT atm.

>>4187039
i like this

Buy as much SALT now as you can.

This is going to change the way people are able to spend their crypto forever.

By setting up a loan and tying up your crypto in a smart contract, you BYPASS the taxable event of actually selling your crypto.

This video has some really good info about it here:

https://youtu.be/KarlukxdShM?t=2m21s

Eric Voorhees is one of the key people of this project among some other big backers.

They have been doing roadshows and will be launching Q4 this year. Not much longer to go. Their dashboard is already functional.

https://imgur.com/a/vk1aG

https://saltlending.com

Oh did I mention that memberships will be tiered giving more access to collateralized blockchained backed loans?

Lowest tier will start from $25 giving you access to $10K in credit.

There is nowhere else on earth you can gain access to $10K for as low as $25 when you look at how much banking fees cost its typically 1% or more.

Right now you can buy their token on the open market for under $2.50.. more than 10x potential here easily.

Check this out as well:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ken4CBBrMPA&feature=youtu.be&t=3m9s

https://membership.saltlending.com/files/abstract.pdf

You can also pay off part of your loan in SALT tokens, and they will be bought back by the company just below retail price to resell back to new lenders/members wanting to either give or take out loans.

Its not just a membership token, its also a way to accumulate now and gain credits that are going to be worth nearly 10x more towards paying off any interest on your loans.

https://membership.saltlending.com/files/abstract.pdf

Salt is the best coin. You get to borrow against your crypto at low rates so you never have to sell and pay taxes. It's how the rich avoid taxes legally (debt against their stocks). Best part is the interest is tax deductible unlike loser credit card holders. Feels good to be rich.

tenx, safex, latoken, syscoin
what do I sell for salt?

>>4187522
>>4187548
Some questions about this. Are Salt tokens going to be burned by the company or will the 12 million salt stay in circulation forever?

Where does the "profit" that Salt makes go towards?

nosalter here. but damn i'm hyped off those vids

how much salt to hold for premier tier?

>>4187922
1 salt a year for membership. 10 salt a year for premier 100 salt a year for enterprise.

>>4187941
so you only need 100 salt to make it? Any more seems like it would be redundant, at least as far as their services go. Unless of course you were trading it.

>>4187941
https://steemit.com/bitcoin/@crypt0.critic/salt-lending-membership-sale-how-and-why-everyone-can-benefit-from-a-salt-membership says
>(30 salt per year for premier)

10 sounds much better for those sweet 1h term loans for buying dips. i'll hodl at least 100 into 2018

>>4187950
No there are multiple purposes for their coins.

You can pay back interest using salt for example. 1 salt=-$25 off of interest.

Meaning if you hoard Salt right now you can basically pay off a fuckload of future interest. I intend to do this because I want to take out a big loan for when BTC crashes hard again. I will then just pay off the interest using the Salt I already bought today.

Except of course if the token rises like 5x its value. (I'm ok with both which is why this is a great deal for some people to buy, it's win-win)

>>4187973
wait, at $25? I thought it was at market rate? That seems pretty good.

>>4187991
Read the text on the right in this picture >>4187522

Where do i buy Salt from? Whats a good crypto trading site? I want to cash in my BTC tomorrow and move to somthing that isn't without a doubt going to the floor. - Any other interesting cryptos?

>>4188004
xmr
xvg
coss

dyor

>>4188004
I bought it from Binance. It's a fucking shitty Chinese exchange filled with price manipulating bots. But it's the only real place with any serious volume to buy from right now.

I think salt is the best one to buy right now because even if the price of the token drops you can still use it to take out loans to buy some BTC during crashes. So you'll make your money back either way.

>>4188004
I got mine off shapeshift. Don't have to worry about exchange risk.

decentralized lending is the new kickstarter.
90% of your investments won't be paid back and idiots will REEEE after all their money is gone

>>4188119
Can you explain in detail what you mean?

It seems like you are confusing this system with a ponzi like Bitconnect.

This is actually a peer-to-peer loan system where you get paid fiat money.

Or do you mean something else? Would like to hear your reasoning.

>>4188132
are there credit scores? how do you determine if someone is going to pay you back?
Do you have legal recourse if they don't?
or are they some chinese or nigerian scammer that will run off with your money?

This is 99.999% of the problem with lending. If you don't have them by the balls they will just not pay you back.

At first I was skeptical about this because I thought it would be a security and be a hassle in many countries. It got listed on Bittrex which makes me bullish because they are a US based company and are trying to be SEC complaint

>>4188149
Nah you are mistaken it doesn't work like that.

If you want a $100,000 loan you have to have $125,000 worth of cryptocurrency locked into a smart contract.

Then when you pay back the $100,000 and interest you get your cryptocurrency back automatically (since it's locked in a smartcontract and not in the hands of the lender). If you don't pay your loan back the smartcontract will give your $125,000 worth of cryptocurrency to the lender as compensation for his $100,000 of fiat.

This is NOT a scam. You as the user are taking out the loan not lending to them lol.

But man, we are on the same side. I fucking hate those bitconnect type of scams. Please read some more about SALT. You'll see that it's not a scam at all. If you have any more questions ask away.

>>4188149
also to add onto this, you do not want to fucking add volatility to the lending equation.
If I lend $500 to someone, I want $550 back.

I don't want to lend $500 then get $125 while the loan is technically "satisfied"

>>4187565
I'd maybe keep tenx

>>4188190
They have solutions to this. Read the white paper.

When the value of your crypto deflates 20% you get a couple of hours to pay the difference in fiat or you lose your cryptocurrency.

(this means the lender always has 5% profit since you have to hold 25% more cryptocurrency than the value of the loan you take out).

It's pretty solid. Read the white paper.

>>4188163
The entire joke is that if they want to fix this tax loophole they also have to fix the loophole that many rick stocktraders also use to avoid taxes. Meaning the US will do jack shit to get Salt banned too much vested interest in this loophole.

>>4188183
>not a scam
>VC sale price of $.25/token vs public sale price of $25 a token

what did he mean by this

>>4187973
Not sure about that. I thought you could use salt to get up to 2% off the interest rate (which is by no means shitty). You also need premium membership to use salt to lower your interest rate.

>>4188

>90% of your investments won't be paid back and idiots will REEEE after all their money is gone

no. salt is legit.

>>4188220
I meant a literal scam. Like the ponzi bitconnect "lending, daily 1%profit!!!!!" that the other anon was talking about.

yeah the presale 0.25 cent stuff is really harsh but if you look at the graph history it seems like most people that wanted to step out that invested at that rate already did and are now waiting for a genuine rise before selling more. Again this is only relevant if you want to sell Salt instead of using it yourself to take out a loan.

>>4188224
premium membership is 10 salt a year which is $25 if you buy it at the current rate. Seems reasonable.

>>4188218
>too much vested interest in this loophole
That's why buffett sticks with the 15% tax rate on long term stocks. No need to use offshore accounts which get raided all the time. Keep the loopholes simple and classic.

JUSTBOUGHT100K

>>4188284
Loaned*

But yeah this was in no way meant to be a shilling thread lol. More about how to use salt to accumulate more BTC during crashes and how to avoid the tax-man when you want to have some old fashioned money.

>>4188183
you mean the lender has to have 25% more in the account to lend it out?
your wording doesn't make any sense.
but the smart contract part doesn't help the lender. the lendee's funds would be useless if they were locked up.

It might not be a "scam", it's just a stupid idea that's not going to work.

>>4188326
>Guy A wants $100,000 loan
>Guy A has to put $125,000 worth of cryptocurrency in a smartcontract to receive loan
>If Guy A pays back $100,000+interest in monthly increments to Guy B he will automatically get his $125,000 worth of cryptocurrency back (probably worth more than $125,000 when he gets it back).
>If Guy A doesn't pay his loan back Guy B will automatically get the $125,000 worth of cryptocurrency from the Smartcontract
>If the cryptocurrency value depreciates 20% somewhere during the lending period then Guy A gets an automated message to either give that 20% with fiat, more cryptocurrency or default the loan and give the cryptocurrency that was locked in the smartcontract to Guy B.

Makes sense?

>>4188326
ok finally found this on their website
>SALT does not perform a credit check on borrowers, we do perform full Anti Money Laundering (AML) and Know Your Customer (KYC) verification
>no credit checks
looool this is going to attract so many foreigner pajeets just looking to take the money & run

>>4188366
Please read my post above yours. it's literally impossible to run away and profit from the situation.

Hell the lenders probably HOPE people don't pay their loans back so that they can make a quick profit by getting the cryptocurrency.

>>4188358
the whole point of loans is that you don't have money, if you have money then there's no need to take out a loan.
what kind of guy with $125,000 wants to lock it up so he can borrow $100,000? It makes no fucking sense

I'm gonna take out a salt loan to pay my taxes next year. Fuck the man!!!

I'm kinda torn. I want to buy more salt now but I think ETH will moon after the shenanigans with BCH being pushed by miners and BTC and the new fork has happened and Salt might not have mooned by then and I don't want to miss that ride.

That said I have a bunch of salt already. Guess I'll just cash out 1/8 of my salt when it hits ~20USD and reinvest it into even more of my evergrowing collection of "it has good fundementals it might moon when product launches XD" coins.

Token purchasing is an addiction and I'm scared. I feel a compulsive need to research and put 2 or more ETH's worth of money into a new token every 3-4 days or else I get withdrawals.

Even if I get lambo rich over the next ~20 months if 3 or so of my moontokens take off I'm still going to be addicted to putting shekels into new tokens its retarded.

I'm retarded.

But at least I'm not 50% of my portfolio in link retarded.

>>4188366
You don't need credit checks for collateralize loans

If you haven't read the Abstract already then just watch this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DsQXQYREZLc

>>4187522
Where to buy salt?

>>4188387
Ok I'm starting to think you are just trolling right now.

A lot of people don't want to sell their cryptocurrency because it'll be worth more in the future. So they'd rather take a loan so that they can have both money to spend and have an insurance that they can get their cryptocurrency back at almost the price they paid for it.

Another usage is that if you sell your cryptocurrency you'll have to pay taxes over it. A loan is debt taxes work different on it so it is beneficial to take out a loan instead of selling crypto because it's cheaper, lol.

Lastly my personal use case. When BTC crashes again I want to buy as much BTC as possible. But I can only have X amount of money to spend on new BTC. Taking out a loan by leveraging my crypto means that I can buy a shitload of BTC at the low price after a crash.

Then I'll reduce the interest rates with Salt I bought today and slowly pay back the loan each month. When the value of my BTC has risen again I just sell maybe 60-70% of my (new) BTC to fully pay off the loan and thus I made 40-30% BTC profit by taking out the loan.

If you still don't get it after this then you don't understand the concept of taking out loans in the first place.

>>4188423
> $100M market cap compared to ETH overbloated $30Bi market cap.

You do realise even if ETH moons, SALT has so much more upside. At least 5-10x.

Do you see ETH doing that in Q4? I don't.

I see SALT platform released Q4 since every day they're tweeting and posting on Telegram its coming very soon.

I'd say right after the BTC fork.

>>4188442
You can find a full list here

https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/salt/#markets

>>4188442
why didn't you just say that in the first place? I thought this was about loans, not just tax avoidance.
it's a way to cash out without incurring capital gains

>>4188478
That's one of the actual uses, yes.

>>4188387
... dude the answer is in the post. It's for people who want to hodl and think their cryptoassets will appreciate.

Another benefit is also that if you need temporary fiat to use irl, you don't have to sell your cryptoassets and trigger having to pay taxes on your gains and having lost all those shekels in taxes if you want to get in again into crypto later.

>>4188366
you are literally fucking retarded. your mom should have aborted you.

> This right here is why we're fucking mooning by the time all the plebs figure this out.

https://twitter.com/saltlending/status/922921511366692864
Scroll up.

>>4188442
People don't understand.
When interest rates are practically zero, you pay practically no interest to borrow against your assets. It's basically the same thing as selling, except there's no capital gains tax. Also the investment interest is tax deductible. Try deducting your credit card interest.

>>4188513
What do you mean a salt token is worth $3 but the company will accept it as $25? What the fuck?

>>4188566
You can lower your interest rates on loans with Salt. 1 salt gives you -$25 interest payment.

Read the text on >>4187522

>>4188566
It's worth less than 3USD on exchanges anon.

>>4188586
>>4188594
im confused if its -25 in interest payment then whats stopping me from using my salt token as collateral and running away with the extra $22?

>>4188024
When signing up for salt, is Binance a valid Ethereum Address?

>>4188615
I'll go with "No" but I have no idea. Don't keep your tokens on binance for too long. They will always be a shady chinese exchange.

>>4188606
I don't understand what you mean. You realize that the crypto you put up for collateral is locked within a smart contract until you pay off your loan or default right?

>>4188631
Sorry im a bit of a brainlet, why are you guys considering this an easy x5 to x10 again?

>>4188631
>Don't keep your tokens on binance for too long.
Then where do I move them after I buy?

>>4188652
Keep them safely by sending them to your Ethereum address

>>4188641
Because the lending platform will release somewhere in December. This in itself will already pump the token.

Then the service can be used a lot of people are going to use it as a tax loophole. And because you can reduce your interest rates with salt people are going to buy up salt from the marketplace because it's free money if they reduce their loan repayment. This means there will be a high demand on salt from then on out.

>>4188652
Private wallet. MEW or Ledger.

>>4188641
Because people can use it to provide (or in this case, detract from interest owed) the value of 25USD, in addition to unlocking the ability to take the loans.

The token itself is ~2.5USD on exchanges now so it's trading at around 10 times less value than the price roof SaltLending is enforcing with its 25USD price for selling it directly and 25USD worth in paying off interest on your loan.

>>4186679
One of the most retarded projects in the realm of crypto

>>4188686
Please explain why.

>>4188686
I know you're just trying to buy more of it cheap before it can be used at retail value.

>>4188666
>>4188660
So its pretty much guaranteed that Salt's value would be greater than $3 but never more than $25 since people can choose to pay 100% of their interest instead if SALT trades for $25 and above? Am i getting it?

>>4188740
No Salt said they would increase their salt store price when market price approaches $25.

>>4188740
Have you suffered from some kind of brain damage?

>>4188758
This means the price can go higher than $25 but that's a long time off man. wait until it launches in december at least.

>>4188740
This opportunity isn't going to last long

>>4188387
>have 10 bitcoins
>deposit 5 bitcoins to get enough money to buy another 4 bitcoins
>ovet time bitcoins price goes up
>pay off the loan by selling some of your bitcoin that has appreciated in value
>end the year with 11 bitcoins without adding in any extra money

ELIX will rip you salt guys a new one.

>>4188740
You still need Salt for other things such as paying their fees based upon your membership. so the demand could keep growing even after $25 is reached. Especially because salt wants to raise their own store token price so the market will probably always offer the cheapest Salt and thus there will always be some demand for salt within the marketplace. But yeah the pump to $25 will probably be the quickest after which it will cool down.

Took a look at their white paper and roadmap. They will launch at LEAST 6 months after the working product of Salt. That is an insanely long time in the crypto world. Salt could be the defacto established loan/lending platform by then.

Also the team behind ELIX is far less experienced that the team behind Salt. And the incentives behind lending/loaning doesn't seem to be as balanced as on Salt.

It could be like how Neo is to ETH though and still be a profitable investment. But it's really hard to fight established giants in crypto and a 6 months headstart might be insurmountable

>>4188786
elix is vaporware and a scam coin did you even read the shit on their website?
They explain exactly nothing about how they are going to achieve anything and they appeal with convoluted "free money" schemes with that parent-child elix generation bullshit that doesn't even have any function.

It's pure scam garbage.

>>4188786
Whoops second half of >>4188823 was meant for you.

I'm feeling Salty ;)

>>4188387
>>4188358
are you people actually fucking retarded. is this the /r9k/ board?
>taking out a loan to invest money? What? You have to be completely retarded to do something like this. drink bleach and end your miserable life

So we all know we are going to the moon, where is the best place to buy salt with real money?

>>4188921
stay poor

>t.leverage

>>4188942
Shapeshift or Binance.

>>4188921
So you are telling me if bitcoin crashes to $3000 tomorrow you wouldn't take out a loan to buy more of it? I wish you good luck in the crypto market, you need it.

>>4188942
Grocery store

>>4188961
>>4188973
top keks

>Bought 1000 SALT

Hope you picked up some of these

>>4188961
saved

>>4188965
taking out a loan to buy anything that you expect to make money in is completely retarded advice. you should take out a life insurance policy give to to your family and then drink bleach. thats the only way your retarded ass could make money

>>4188994
So, businesses getting investment loans is retarded?

Gottem.

>>4188994
It's not exactly a loan as it is mostly your money already, it's more like investing your money.

>>4188994
You should have also read the fine print in which the loan I took out is tax deductable, free money.

>>4188982
Worst case scenario I'll use Salt just to take out loans to buy more BTC during crashes. That's the thing owning a token that actually has value in and of itself is a win-win. Even if the price goes to shit you can still use it to make more money.

>>4188994
>>4189010
This. You need to have the money in btc, and it's stored in a vault in case you can't pay. Imagine that even in storage it could increase it's value.

>>4189027
>>4189024
you are completely retarded. i bet you buy into pyramid schemes also

>>4189024
>Worst case scenario I'll use Salt just to take out loans to buy more BTC during crashes.
What happens if I take loans to buy BTC, but it keeps going down and reach 0?
How the fuck do you pay for it?

>>4189035
Wait what?

Do you have ANY idea how actual business and finance works? You realize that taking out a loan to invest in something is what literally EVERY institution does right? Especially now that interest rates are practically 0%. Money is given out for practically free. Loaning money and buying appreciating assets is how the world revolves.

But it's ok man. I know that a lot of people are raising by thinking loaning money is evil so it still has a stigma with some people.

>>4189044
Read the thread I already answered that question to someone else.

>>4189035
I'm sure you're trolling but you aren't putting in any extra money or risking any real money, you are just doubling down on your existing investment so you get more returns if it does well or lose more value if it does badly.

>>4189058
Okay, I probably read it and forgot about it, I'm really sleepy right now, it's late here.

>>4189035
>go to bank
>take out loan at 12% interest for 100k
>hurrr durr im going to invest that 100k in the stock market
>oh you mean i have to pay back the money monthly?
>12k monthly interest payements
>make 100 dollars in the stock market daily
>nice investment bro

Banks can say bye bye now.

https://membership.saltlending.com/files/abstract.pdf

Peer to peer lending on the blockchain with crypto backed collateral automated by smart contracts and oracles.

Platform looks beautiful as well.

>>4188183

Can I pay back my fiat loans with the equivalent ETH or BTC instead of fiat?

>>4189082
IRL it would go something like this.

>Put 5 bitcoin up as collateral
>Buy 4 bitcoin with the money you loaned
>Wait a month for the first payment
>Because we live in cryptoland Bitcoin recovered somewhat already from that crash within that month
>Sell exactly the amount of BTC that would cover your monthly payment that month
>Next month BTC is worth even more, sell only the amount that covers your monthly payment
>Keep doing this until your loan is paid off
>You get your 5BTC back and still have the BTC you have left over - BTC that you sold

How doesn't this make sense?

What if I bought BTC at the crash to $1800 in march with that loan and bought 5 bitcoin? Even 1 bitcoin could almost pay back the entire loan.

In the absolute WORST case scenario I can;t pay the loan and lose my 5 BTC and only have 4 BTC that I bought afterwards left. Literally only lost 20% of my investment while the potential reward is SO much bigger.

>>4189138
Yeah. You can also just not pay your loan back at all and the smartcontract will just pay out the cryptocurrency you had up as collateral.

Of course normal people would want to keep their crypto and instead pay with useless dollars.

>>4189139
because theres a thing called interest you stupid mother fucker. people dont loan out money due to their kind and generous nature. everyone wants to make money. you are completely retarded. Also if you have 100 dollars you dont take out a loan for 90 dollars you stupid mother fucker.

>>4189149
Useless dollars they get for free from their asset appreciating..

This is seriously going to be a game changer.

Both for borrowers and lenders, who will need SALT token memberships.

Interesting point for lenders gaining exposure to crypto indirectly, they can make returns that are superior to traditional services without having to take the risk of holding cryptocurrency themselves.

>>4189158
I have explained how this works ITT already.

You need to have 125% collateral value to get a loan. Thus 125 dollars in bitcoin will give you a 100 dollar loan.

If you pay back the loan+interest you get your 125 dollar bitcoin back (probably worth more than 125 dollars by then). If you can't pay back your 125 dollars of bitcoin will get removed.

Sorry man I can't make this any easier to understand than this. It's pretty basic stuff.

>>4189164
To be honest I am not even here to sell salt tokens. I just want to use the service and buy cheap BTC after crashes.

That Salt will be $25 a token is just a plus for me.

>>4189158
TLDR;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DsQXQYREZLc&t

Hopefully you should understand by now.

>>4189172
>>4189167
this is all one stupid pyramid scheme honestly. and you retards buying into it are getting taken for a ride

>>4189183
You must have an IQ of like 60.

The loan is only secured by putting up COLLATERAL.

That means if you dont meet the payment.

Your collateral gets liquidated to pay the remainder of the loan.

>>4189183
It's pretty funny to call it a pyramid scheme when users are the ones loaning money lol.

Literally reverse of bitconnect. You GET money from THEM. I would love pyramid schemes if they would give money to me instead of me having to give money to them.

its a shitte coin op

>>4189193
EXACTLY.

Salt is going to be way fucking bigger than that Bitconnect pos.

I'm comfy. /biz/ is full of amateurs but there are some who seem to be red pilled enough to see in between the lines.

>>4189193
are you stupid? you are giving money to them.

>>4189183
If this brainlet is real and there are many like him then I understand why this token is still so cheap lmao going to load some more after the obligatory post BTC fork pump ETH spike.

>>4189183
Okay, you clearly have some kind of psychiatric condition, probably retardation (not joking).

>>4189203
The collateral is locked up in a transparent smartcontract. They don't get the cryptocurrency UNTIL you fail to pay their montly payments.

Seriously, where do you even come from? New to crypto or something? You DO know what smartcontracts are right?

>>4189225
its a completely retarded idea. if you want to waste your money go ahead. taking out a loan to invest money is a STUPID idea. anyone will tell you that but you are likely in your early 20's and still young and stupid thinking you can make an easy buck

>>4189251
Thank you for looking out for my well-being. I hope you make some gains too anon.

>10% interest rate

Isn't that a lot? I know you can use it to get around the capital gains tax on selling bitcoin but still, why cant they offer loans at a much lower rate since they are secured by capital?

>>4188615
I don't think they want people sending from exchanges. Saw them tell people that they'd have to contact support if they did.

>>4189315
Interest rate will be determined by free market that was just an example.

But think about it is 10% yearly interest rate really that high when you hold bitcoin? Chances are your currency will gain more than 10% within that year. Plus the tax benefits and everything it seems worth it.

>>4189356
thats assuming the price of bitcoin always goes up. you will lose more money if you take out a loan, invest it, have to the pay the monthly interest, and the price goes down

>have 10 bitcoin
>use that as collateral to buy 8 bitcoin
>use that as collateral to buy 6.4 bitcoin
>use that as collateral to buy 5.12 bitcoin
>use that as collateral to buy 4 bitcoin

am i missing something? if you knew the price of bitcoin was going to go up (say you owned CNN and were about to shill it hard) you could make near infinite money

>>4189404
its called interest. theres no such thing as using money as collateral to buy other money.

>>4189375
Theoretically true but the worst you can lose is 25% of your collateral.

while the gains are far far more than just 25% of your collateral.

Example:
>Bitcoin crashes to $3000
>Put 5 bitcoin (worth $15,000 up as collateral for a $12,000 loan)
>Buy 4 Bitcoin using the $12,000 loan
>Have to pay back $12,000+10% interest= $1,.200 over 12 months
>$1,100 per month
>End of first month Bitcoin is already back at $3700
>You sell just 1/3rd of 1 bitcoin to pay that month's payment
>Do this every month while bitcoin keeps recovering
>At the end you still have ~2-3 BTC extra 2-3 BTC= 40-60% of your collateral value

Scenario B
>Exactly the same
>Instead of bitcoin recovering from $3000 it instead drops in value
>You can't pay back the loans
>You default on your loan
>Your 5 bitcoin colateral is given to the lender
>You only have the 4 bitcoin left that you bought with the borrowed money
>You lost 20% of the value of your collateral

The wins are bigger than the losses which is why it's a winning strategy.

>>4189404
Yeah you can't do that.

You can only have 1 loan standing open at a time they specifically want to avoid people doing what you are suggesting by tracking the cryptocurrency data to see what transactions are made to be sure you don't used bought crypto.

I guess if they accept monero you could still do this even though discouraged.

>>4189439
you really can't into arithmetic can you

>>4189404
This is how Fiat loans work too, banks lend out Fiat at the inverse of the reserve ratio, IE if the reserve ratio is 10% every dollar you put in a bank they can lend out 10, which goes into another bank which they can lend out now 100 and so on and so forth.

This exact scenario is how banks fuck us with inflation

>>4189446
You just make alt accounts or launder the bitcoins.

I don't see why they would want to avoid people doing that, it only has positive effects on them.

>>4189455
Yeah I don't know as well maybe there are some laws in some places prohibiting them from it? They are saying that they will take measures against it without going into detail. Maybe it's just legal speak and they don't give a fuck what you do.

>>4189446
you are telling me losing 15k is an acceptable scenario? Are you fucking retarded?

>>4189472
You are losing $3000 if bitcoin drops in value

You are gaining $6000-$9000 if bitcoins rises in value (Not even accounting for the fact that said rises in bitcoin should make that number even bigger lol)

As you can see the potential loss is far lower than the potential profit meaning you have an incentive to apply this investment strategy every time bitcoin crashes.

C'mon man. Step over your fear of loans. Again I know that in some cultures loans are the devil but you should factor in all the information before deciding if an option is good or bad.

>>4189472
You already think it is a good investment or else you wouldnt have your money in it, if you think it is so good that it is worth an additional 10% interest (hell yes if you did this last year) then yes.

>>4189487
its a stupid idea. its like you are one of those guys trying to sell someone on the pyramid schemes

>>4189502
Dude please don't invest if you think this is all some bullcrap. Not trying to convince you.

I was just trying to explain the theory behind it. I like discussing cryptocurrencies and disruptions in the economy which is why I am doing this

>>4189149

Thanks. One other question if you don't mind: How many committed loaners do they already have, and what's their total pool of fiat at this point? I assume it will grow as more people sign up to be lenders, but just curious about the present ones.

>>4189567
To be completely honest I have no Idea.

But I suspect that won't be an issue. When non-crypto people find out they can make a guaranteed 10% a year profit in dollars simply by lending some money to some "dumb internet kids selling imaginary money" they will jump on it like hyenas.

But yeah I have no true answer. Perhaps you can find out yourself and post ITT?

But yeah I think there are people jumping to get 10% a year on their investment. And there are people jumping to get loans with "only" 10% interest a year so I don't really think this will be an issue.

This seems like a good idea, and Vorhees is reasonably reputable. So why has this been tanking for fucking ages?

>>4189251

You don't have to take it out just to invest more into crypto, brainlet. Say your main income is crypto and you want that fiat and don't want to pay capital gains tax. There you go.

>>4189636
pre-sale investors could buy Salt for 25 cents a piece.

It was sold for $5 a piece during ICO
And it was sold $10 day one on exchanges

Basically a couple of people from the ICO started flipping for quick profit. People panicked and oversold and then some pre-sale investors checked out as well.

Price seems to have stabilized and the working product is out this december.

I suspect they needed to give 1 salt for 25 cents to potential Lenders as a partnership so that they would want to use the service.

>>4189607

Asking in the telegram. Thanks for the thread, anon. Keeps /biz/ alive. And another: we aren't sure what the interest rate is yet?

>>4189723
From what I understand while reading the white paper the interest rate is based upon supply and demand. But this could mean a lot of things. Maybe it suggests that lenders can suggest their own interest rates or that lenders have to bid against each other for a specific type of loan and the one providing the lowest interest rate wins it or something.

At least it's sure that it's a dynamic interest rate and not 1 rate for all.

>>4189747

The telegram manager said he's asking the team and would get back to me when he could. This is what he said about the interest rate: "The interest rate offered by our lender network is subject to change and is influenced by market conditions."

I'll post here again when he replies.

>>4189880
Yeah I knew it was dynamic from the white paper I think they have some kind of algorithm that takes into account the amount of people wanting a loan and the amount of people asking for a loan or something.

makes sense that they wouldn't want to give specific details as to how this works because it could be used by potential competitors.

>>4189251

Wow, just wow.

You sir are a salty no salter, do you not realize that this dramatically improves upon how lending works today.

Lending should be P2P and the market opportunity for this is so huge.

This is going to be a massive example of showing what can be done with smart contracts and the banks are going to be totally fucked now that we have the free market.

>>4189957
I agree

>>4189957
It's easy as fuk to get a P2P loan with low interest right now regardless, with ZERO collateral.

I hope this gets back to $5 desperate to dump these bags

we are preparing for a possible SALT pump soon, still time to prepare, join us on discord server
https://discord.gg/7wnGQkt

>>4188183
>having 125,000 worth of cryptocurrency

125,000 worth of crypto now can be 75,000 or 150,000 tomorrow

so what stops me from depositing 125,000 worth of crypto and when i see the crypto dipped and that 125,000 is now worth only 50,000 i just run off with the loan and never pay it back

>>4187522

>>4188513

> $25 interest repayments
> For $2.65 before platform comes out.

Yeah I'll take that trade.

>>4190969
Do you know what a COLLAERAL is?

Holy shit the amount of brainlets here is riduclous.

Let me break it down for you.

The loan is only secured by putting up COLLATERAL.

That means if you dont meet the payment.

Your collateral gets liquidated to pay the remainder of the loan

Just bought 100 will i make it

>>4190979

>>4190985
Well played, well played..

>>4190979
>>4190985
>>4190992

>>4186679
Salty faggot

>>4190979
Kinda makes sense now how salt has stayed around the ~2.5 mark for all these time if you see the average "crypto trader". Thank you guys for allowing me to buy during ATL!!

>>4190979

I think you missed the point of anon's post.
If you put up 125k worth of collateral for 100k fiat, & then SALT drops in value, 80% drop for example, so the collateral is now worth 25k. What's stopping you from defaulting the loan?

>>4191167
The lender would just simply get his money back from the collateral posted by the borrower.

See Example on Page 5.

https://membership.saltlending.com/files/abstract.pdf

Its really not rocket science.

>>4191167
Explained 3 times ITT already.

when the value of the collateral drops by 20% you'll have to pay fiat/cryptocurrency or you'll automatically default on your loan. Meaning the lender will always get 105% of his investment. (125% collateral -20% depreciation).

Of course most people will want their crypto back since it's in general an appreciating asset I don't expect to see people default on their loans with bitcoin as collateral.

>>4191217

So after a big drop like the 80% example given, the 125k worth of SALT collateral is now worth 25k. How is the lender getting their money back? There's only 25k worth of collateral left.

>>4191219
That's understandable, but what if something happens where it drops by a lot more than 20% in a short time? How long are you given to pay the difference back?

>>4191386
the 80% isn't a drop it's the ratio between collateral and loan value. This means that the collateral will always be worth more than the value of the loan by 20% if it drops then the crypto will be sold until it's at 80% again.

>>4191407
They will only accept certain kind of cryptos. Think about Bitcoin/ETH/Salt(ofc). Maybe also Litecoin/NEO in the future. Those coins are not volatile enough as to lose 20% of their value in 1 day.

The point is that when it is near depreciated by 20% you get a sort of "margin call" where you either pay more money/crypto or default on your loan. The lender that receives your crypto will immediately liquidate it and have made 105% of his investment back.

>>4188247
>and are now waiting for a genuine rise before selling more

you got me until this

>>4191543
I'm not trying to sell you on Salt just telling you like it is.

>>4191460

Don't get me wrong, I like the look of this, but the autism is just exploring every outcome

Assuming these "non volatile" cryptos stay non volatile, it's all good. But they're cryptos, anything can and will happen.

If a loan was made against bitcoin right now, and the fork caused it to drop by 40odd% to 4000 (like some are saying/hoping/praying) the lender will receive the collateral when it drops by 20%. They'll then have to sell a depreciating crypto that is in free fall. I know you'll say they can just hodl until it goes back up, but say the new, post-fork crypto is heavily backed and bitcoin doesn't increase, lender is screwed.

I just don't see how anybody who has the smarts to earn enough to lend, will want to lend against a volatile collateral. Especially at a small interest rate or when they could use that money to buy whatever you're probably wanting to buy.

>>4191732
That is the risk the lender is willing to take. But lets be honest if one of those non volatile cryptos take a dive of 20% in a couple of hours then we are all severely fucked anyway.

For example bitcoin would need to crash to $5,760 before it gets automatically transfered to the lender.

ETH needs to crash to $240.

Sure it happened before but compare this to traditional lending based on credit score. This is till magnitudes safer for a lender which will attract a lot of attention from non-crypto people.

Just imagine saying to people with a savings account "You can lend it out and get 10% a year and it's even less risky than your 4% (if lucky) yielding bonds!"

>>4191732
Both the legacy and the fork btc belongs to the escrow and is thus a part of the collateral. They have confirmed this.

I don't understand the hype for this coin.
The team has no connection whatsoever with the banking systems, yet they claim they will release a SALT credit card on Q1 2018. When you ask them about which partners they're going to release it they can't give a proper name.

>>4191995
>Caring about the credit card

Dude it's about having access to quick and easy loans so that you can buy BTC when it crashes. Then use the Salt you buy right now to reduce the amount of interest you have to pay on that loan. 1 salt ($2.5 now) will remove $25 from your interest payment.

The landing platform launches in December. Do you understand the potential now?

>>4192091
Do we have the future interest rate?

>>4192091
I'm not forgetting the credit card. You don't post those kind of things without expecting people to buy your bags. It's just my opinion

>>4192112
It's dynamic. The interest rate is based upon supply and demand.

Read the white paper if you want to know more about the details.

Basically the TL;DR
>Product launches this December
>You can take collateral backed loans
>If you take out a loan you don't pay capital gains tax vs selling your crypto
>You can reduce the interest rate of your lone by using salt. 1 salt=$25 interest rate reduction.

>>4192140
To be completely honest I think credit cards are useless and archaic as fuck. They should cancel them to be honest.

>>4192158
>If you take out a loan you don't pay capital gains tax vs selling your crypto
And what the IRS will think of that? Even today it's pretty hard to withdraw large amount of crypto for a "normies"

>To be completely honest I think credit cards are useless and archaic as fuck. They should cancel them to be honest.

Banknote is even more archaïc, do you think it will disappear? But that's not the point, what i criticize here is their communication.

>>4192225
>And what will the IRS think of that?

Absolutely nothing. Why? Because it's a loophole stock traders have been using for decades now. You really think they will close a loophole that the entirety of wallstreet is using just because some crypto startup started to use it?

>>4189899

Didn't hear back from them yet, but apparently you get a free nano ledger s if you have over 100 SALT tokens and sign up as an enterprise member.

>>4192501
100 Salt is 250 dollar though. Might as well buy a nano ledger s then. It's not like I will borrow $1,000,000 any time soon anyway.

>>4186878
>they are selling 1 SALT for $25 on their own website
I don’t get this. For what purpose? Just to scam people out of money?

>>4187002
If you do not do this, you do not follow the true /biz/ way.

Sweet Mary and Joseph. I started reading this last night and it's still going. This entire thread is a nice foretelling of how poor many of you will be. This is hands down one of the most solid and usable applications of the Blockchain and you are questioning it with notions my 7 year old could figure out. How do some of you actually use a computer or function? Do you whipe back to front? Unreal. How about this! Don't buy it! Buy more Vertcoin and Elix! I'm sitting on 5k at 1.50 and have added 1more at 2.15. anything under 2.75 is stupid as shit not to buy. I hope you all will grow up to be worth something cause right now I'm certain your parents are disapointed. You don't even understand the most basic premise of borrowing. Scary.

I have a question. What happens if you take out a loan with SALT and the price plummets in the mean time?

>>4192602
No they think 1 salt should be worth $25 and thus they will behave like salt is worth $25 for all services and goods that they are providing.

so 1 year of basic membership is $25 or 1 salt
Reducing your loan's interest rate by $25=1 salt.

This is why it's good to accumulate Salt right now if you are going to take out a loan in the future you are literally buying $25 for $2.5

>>4192618
>Do you whipe back to front?
What’s wrong with that...?

>>4192645
It makes your balls smell dude.stop

>>4192644
>and thus they will behave like salt is worth $25 for all services and goods that they are providing.
Does that mean it’ll eventually trade at $25? Seems like it would be pointless for them to sell it for that price otherwise. Also aren’t they effectively capping the price by doing that?

>>4192636
>Take out a loan with salt?

Do you mean you have 1000 Salt and take out a loan for $2000 and then your salt will reduce in value over time?

Because that has been explained 5 times ITT now.

you have to give up 125% of your loan value in collateral.

Thus for a $100,000 loan you need to have $125,000 in crypto.

If the crypto depreciates and is close to -20% you will get a message to either pay money or another cryptocurrency to make up for that -20%. If you don't (or are too late) then it will immediately be sent to the lender. Meaning in the worst case scenario for the lender he will get 105% of his investment back.

>>4192668
Yeah it'll eventually Reach $25 but Salt has said on twitter that when the market price becomes $25 they will increase the price of Salt in their own store over time so basically they just want to slowly push the value of Salt up over time.

Potential Salt Pump tomorrow Sunday afternoon from this group: https://discord.gg/w64GC56
You can thank me later.

>>4192544

How does the membership work? Also, they responded to me on Telegram and said they aren't releasing that information at this time (how many loaners they have right now and what kind of capital pool there is).

Here you dummies:
Salt Lending, Part 1. http://traffic.libsyn.com/debevoise/AFD_023_SaltLending_Pt1.mp3?dest-id=450798.. <p>On this episode of Appetite for Disruption, Salt Lending CEO Shawn Owen and Chief Operating Offic.... Sent from Podcast Republic.

>>4187522
>$25 to borrow $10000
Ok, so what happens to SALT when no one pays back their loan?

>>4192747
Yeah I expected them to not reveal their lender information.

You pay the membership in Salt. Basic membership=1 salt a year premium=10 salt a year enterprise=100 salt a year.

>>4192761
Read >>4192693
If people don't pay their loan back the lender still has a 5% profit due to collateral backing.

Man I swear has /biz/ never heard of the concept of loaning/lending money or something geez.

>>4192788
>Basic membership
1 salt a year ($25 is their aim) $2.5 current price
>Premium membership
10 salt a year ($250 aim) $25 current price
>Enterprise membership
100 salt a year ($2500 aim) $250 current price

If you are a /biz/ trader you would only want basic or premium membership.

Basic=Loans up until $10,000
Premium=Loans up until $100,000
Enterprise=Loans up until $1,000,000

Also some other features such as the nano s ledger.

>>4187973
Hmmm. That sure is _interest_ing, anon!

>>4192761
The devs bail because people were stupid enough to buy it at 7$

>>4188218
>When the value of your crypto deflates 20% you get a couple of hours to pay the difference in fiat or you lose your cryptocurrency.

Hooooooly shit. So many people going to lose everything in the crash.

>>4192853
Wait what?

Nobody can be scammed using this system holy shit you people.

Lender is guaranteed to get at least 105% of his investment even if the guy defaults on his loan (Fucking Collateral how do they work?). The person taking the loan has a maximum of 25% loss if he doesn't pay back the loan.

>>4192870
The reason I bought salt was because I wanted to take out a loan when BTC crashes so I can buy up the really cheap BTC. And then when BTC price normalize I will sell a bit of that BTC to repay the entire loan.

Also no nobody is going to lose "everything" considering you can only lose 25% of your assets using this system when you take out a loan.

>>4192870
Pretty sure nobody has borrowed yet Anon. I suppose you are implying the SALT platform goes live while BTC is still rising. Still doubt many are foolish enough to borrow knowing a correction will occur. But borrowing immediately after the correction will be like warm cherry pie

Not liking what I've read so far from this thread, gotta' be honest

Looked around in the salt website, but I can't find anywhere how you would be protected in case the lender doesn't transfer fiat. Anyone got a link?

>>4192931
Explain

>>4192932
What do you mean? It's a smart contract

>Person A has 5 bitcoin and puts it in the smart contract
>Person B has $30,000 and puts it in the smart contract
>$30,000 gets transfered to Person A
>If person A pays $33,000 with monthly payments he automatically gets his cryptocurrency back
>If person A defaults on the loan person B gets his 5 bitcoin

If you meant something else then tell.

>>4192978
How do you put fiat in a smart contract?
Last time I checked, the solution was to have someone guarantee the parity of a token that represents fiat. Who's guaranteeing it here?

Is there another method to put fiat in a smart contract that I'm not aware of?

>>4193025
It uses the Salt oracle to connect currency data that gets transferred through their service directly onto your bank account.

What happens is that you "lock in" your crypto into a smart contract and as one of the initializers for the loan to start happen the oracle needs to confirm that X amount of fiat is deposited on your account which will then feed that data back into the smart contract and start the official loan period.

When you default the smart contract automatically transfers the locked in crypto to the lender. If you pay the loan back+interest it automatically goes back to you.

>>4193074
What I said can be seen in the white paper.

If you want to know exactly how it works watch smart contract videos from ETH about oracles.

>>4192978
If you have the money in the first place why do you need a loan?

>>4186679
Hey SALTy OP - I have over 3000 SALT. You are very thoughtful and patient explaining this to the people on /biz/ who don't understand lending,finance, taxes and compliance. They don't understand lending as an investment strategy to avoid taxes.

Anyway, I think you are doing an excellent job explaining SALT so that people understand that you are actually helping them. This is not a pump and dump. Of course there are always traders, but this isn't a discord or telegram group targeted coin.

Half of these people want Amazon to accept crypto. They don't realize that Amazon has all of your information and can report you to the IRS for what you spend in crypto. Guess what? Unless you have provided a cost basis to the IRS for your crypto, they will assume a ZERO cost basis and expect you to pay capital gains taxes on that. They also assume that they are short term gains unless you prove otherwise.

Wait until you get that tax bill from buying $10,000 worth or furniture from Overstock.com using crypto. Now you owe 35% taxes.

Why not borrow with SALT. Maybe pay 7% vs. capital gains taxes?

>>4193151
Oh, I just read the potential SALT pump, so maybe I was wrong about that. Anyway, my other points are accurate, I believe.

>>4193140
Because you don't have the money if it is in crypto. You have crypto that has value if you convert it to fiat, but you taxes on those gains when you convert to fiat. Do you want to pay 35% capital gains taxes?

>>4193140
You don't have the money you only have crypto.

There are multiple reasons.
>You need money right now but don't want to sell your crypto for whatever reason
>BTC is crashing and you want to buy more than you can afford and thus take a loan out with the BTC you already have as collateral
>You can avoid paying capital gains tax if you take out a loan instead of selling crypto

>>4193074
Turns out I'm retarded. Skipped the "SALT Oracle Wallet" info page cause I thought it was a wallet.

>>4193140
You're getting confused because you're thinking "fiat = money, crypto = money, it's all the same"
They're not the same, just as different fiat currencies are not the same.

Maybe this analogy will help you:
If BTC=house and fiat=money, you put your $125 house as collateral and get $100 fiat to buy another house, because you actually want to keep the house because reasons (in this case, the house price will go up)

>>4193227
>Maybe this analogy will help you:
>If BTC=house and fiat=money, you put your $125 house as collateral and get $100 fiat to buy another house, because you actually want to keep the house because reasons (in this case, the house price will go up)
Very nice analogy!

>>4193151
Nah I'm not here to talk about pump&dump. Bought Salt because I want to buy BTC dips I don't even really care about the token price. I bought close to ATL and thus will have the cheapest discount on my loans as possible.

Only win-win coin I've ever seen because if the token value rises, cool you make profit. If it doesn't you can still use the Salt to indirectly make your loans cheaper and thus give you indirect profit.

Yeah I have to admit that this thread has kinda lowered my expectations on the average education level of /biz/. Didn't even know there were adult people out there trading cryptocurrency that don't even know the very basics of finance. Kinda disturbing really.

Is this the "Normies are already here" meme everyone is talking about?

>>4193140

can't tell if you guys are playing devil's advocate or you've hit a level of retardation where you simply can't understand what the SALT anon is trying to articulate

If you have 1m usd in crypto and you want to buy a business - which would require 500k USD - you could circumvent the taxable event of cashing out and simply borrow against it with 625k in crypto, and pay back a ton with a token that is guaranteed on their platform to trade at 25 usd. At current prices, you'll essentially be able to arbitrage your debt burden at a 1:10 ratio.

>>4193257
Thanks I was correcting my previous comment where I said that it wasn't a PnD coin, then I saw the post for PnD on SALT.

I didn't make that clear. I was talking to myself.

>>4193257
>Yeah I have to admit that this thread has kinda lowered my expectations on the average education level of /biz/. Didn't even know there were adult people out there trading cryptocurrency that don't even know the very basics of finance. Kinda disturbing really.

This.

>>4193184
newfag here, at what moment you pay taxes for using crypto?

>>4193298
I can't give actual tax advice, but the way I understand it is that works like stocks. You should pay taxes on any gains for every trade.

This has not been verified or challenged so it is a grey area. What is certain is that when you convert to fiat, you owe taxes on your gains. You can only offset your gains by $3000 worth of losses. Now you have to show the IRS your trades with those losses....now you have opened a huge can of worms.

>>4193298
Also just FYI. The IRS might know that you converted to fiat, but not tell you they know for years. Guess what? Now you owe interest and penalties on top of the capital gains taxes.

If they can prove that you were deliberately avoiding paying taxes, you are looking at prison time.

>>4193151
>Guess what? Unless you have provided a cost basis to the IRS for your crypto, they will assume a ZERO cost basis and expect you to pay capital gains taxes on that. They also assume that they are short term gains unless you prove otherwise.

>>4193315
>Now you have to show the IRS your trades with those losses...

I assume you would have to show the taxman something that makes this "random money that got deposited in your account" a loan in their eyes, or they will again assume it's gains.
Also, in my EU shithole country a large enough loan (% of your annual taxable income) will get taxed.

>>4193298
They might not be able to stop crypto, so they will find a way to stop as many people as possible from becoming wealthy from crypto. This why you should pay taxes. They will bring us down any way they can. Be vigilant and honest so you can keep your crypto and most of your gains.

>>4193359
Yes, regarding the loan. There is a record of the fiat entering your bank account from Salt Lending. It would be the same as money entering your account from any bank or lending organization. Your bank knows this is a loan not a deposit or transfer of cash that would have to be reported if over the amount of $10,000 in the US.

I am sorry I don't know anything about loans in the EU. That can't be right that they would tax you on money that came from a loan. You pay interest, you shouldn't have to pay taxes on that, too. Again, I have know idea but that doesn't seem right.

>>4193298
There are all kinds of grey area tricks you can do to not pay taxes or to pay the minimum amount of taxes possible.

The easiest headache free way is to just have a loan and pay back the interest.

Otherwise you'd need to start a company. And let them "buy" the assets you already own. And then pay a shitty college art student to make a painting. Pay an "art expert" to evaluate that art at some absurdly high price.

Then donate that art to a university or whatever. Now you can subtract that fake valuation amount from your crypto gains the company makes.

But that's only if you are a crypto whale. Otherwise the loan trick must do.

>>4193359
There are a lot of EU loopholes since you are allowed to use other EU banking laws such as that of Luxembourg, Netherlands and Ireland all 3 of which are tax havens.

>>4193363
>Paying taxes

I'd rather move overseas to be honest.

>>4193397
>>Paying taxes
>I'd rather move overseas to be honest.
That is an option right now. It might not be in the future.

So if 1 SALT is good for one year of membership, what happens after a year? You keep the SALT but are no longer a member? Or the SALT gets burned?

If you have “a few hours” to up the collateral if the value drops by 20%, could you loan out crypto as a way of shorting something?

>>4186717
No shit it skyrockets if adapted
/biz is a bro tier board
Advice, buy.
Thank me later

SALT is set to pump in 45 min

>>4193151
Fuuuuuuck. I literally just converted 21 ETH to fiat. Think if I buy ETH again I’ll still have to pay capital gains?

>>4193390
>That can't be right that they would tax you on money that came from a loan.

It's actually even worse. They tax you on money that you pay back to the lender. Basically, there is a comparison between your "presumed" income and your "actual" income. The "actual" income is what you declare to the taxman. The "presumed" income is calculated using several criteria such as ownership of land, ownership of vehicles, marriage status etc. One of the criteria is how much you paid back on loans you owe.
So basically if your "presumed" income is higher than your "actual" income, it replaces it and is used to calculate the taxes. If you get a large enough loan, the monthly payments can bring your "presumed" income above your "actual" one and you end up paying more tax. It sounds irrational, I know, but it's real.

>>4193479
It is like your gym membership. If you don't use it you don't get a refund. It gets burned, I believe. OP can clarify that.

You can't loan money through SALT. Only accepted accredited investors can loan through SALT.

>>4193521
Capital gains is usually only measured when you turn your crypto into fiat not the opposite way.

Why do you think Tether is a thing? Don't cash out in dollars my man. Uncle sam the tax man will fuck you in the ass.

>>4193553
No they won't get burned but they will be hold by the exchange for the long term (at least for crypto).

>>4193556
It’s already too late for me.

>>4193533
Wow...thanks for the information.

>>4193521
you should only have to pay capital gains tax on...you guessed it, gains. lots of fudders saying that every trade is taxed, not true. only when you cash out back into your bank account with profit. if you're in the red, that's actually a loss you can dedudct on your taxes.

>>4193489
Shit what, buying more.
Bettet not larp me boy

>>4193594
Well I’ll have to pay short term capital gains in like $4k of profit then. Maybe I’ll take a SALT loan to pay it kek.

I want to subscribe to salt, I'm on the main page but I can't found where to do it. where is it?

>>4193614
https://membership.saltlending.com/login

>>4193634
how do you access via the main page?

>>4193594
Be careful giving that advice. So far they have defined crypto for tax purposes in the US as "real property" not currency. Therefor, taxes a the same as for stocks as an example. I have found absolutely no other interpretation from any reliable published source. That means that gains on EVERY trade are taxable.

There has been no precedence in this being enforced at the moment, but the IRS is sneaky...they may come after you years later and charge you interest and penalties on top of the tax you owe.

https://www.thebalance.com/how-bitcoins-are-taxed-3192871

https://www.forbes.com/sites/greatspeculations/2017/07/10/what-you-need-to-know-about-cryptocurrencies-and-taxes/#352859411a95

From Forbes article:
"In other words, the IRS is treating the income or gains from the sale of a virtual currency, such as bitcoin, as a capital asset, subject to either short-term (ordinary income tax rates) or long term capital gains tax rates, if the asset is held greater than twelve months (15% or 20% tax rates based on income). By treating bitcoins and other virtual currencies as property and not currency, the IRS is imposing extensive record-keeping rules and significant taxes on its use."

>>4193666
*nothing I have posted should be considered tax advice. This is just information that I have read and interpreted into my own words. Consult a tax professional who has experience in cryptocurrency tax regulation for actual advice.

>>4193533
Let me guess. Marriage is at an all time low. Everyone uses a car from the company (so that they technically don't own a vehicle) land is leased instead of bought and loans are paid back in longer periods to avoid raising your taxable income.

>>4193594
Believe it or not some places tax your POTENTIAL capital gain even if you actually made a loss.

>>4193612
Nah man look for as much shit as possible you can substract from taxes. Did you made losses somewhere that you can proof and subtract? Maybe had to buy office supplies or whatever. If you look hard enough there is enough shit to find to at least half the $4k you have to pay

>>4193634
Looks like it's bugged right now, I can't create an acc. Ty

>>4193594
>if you're in the red, that's actually a loss you can dedudct on your taxes.
Only up to $3000 per year in losses against gains. You must provide all of your trading records to use this deduction. Now they have all of your trading records. Be prepared to pay taxes on every gain over that $3000 amount in losses. *not tax advice

>>4193695
It’s not that bad I’d have to pay tax on 4K or profit, so I guess like $1400 or worst case of what that other anon said is true, I’d have to pay tax on the whole $7k so $2450, but that would be bullshit seeing as I paid $3000 for that $7k.

>>4193695
>Nah man look for as much shit as possible you can substract from taxes. Did you made losses somewhere that you can proof and subtract? Maybe had to buy office supplies or whatever. If you look hard enough there is enough shit to find to at least half the $4k you have to pay

You might be able to deduct other items that will lower the income tax you owe, but you can't offset capital gains taxes with other deductions!! You must pay capital gains taxes on capital gains.

*not tax advice

>>4193739
You are right. Just pay the taxes.

>>4193695
You don't have to keep the presumed income incredibly low, just below your actual one. This was never a real issue in the past (pre EU crisis) economy. Recent tax increases combined with more ridiculous calculations of presumed income in the last 10 years have turned it into a problem and situations like what you describe are becoming more and more commonplace.

Long story short: ownership of land/cars etc is usually spread between members of a family to lower presumed income per head. Loans fuck you up the ass even more because it's a lose-lose situation, either you pay more tax or you pay more interest because of the extended duration. The problem has not yet escalated to affect social contracts like lower marriage %, but it's probably only a matter of time before people realize they can't afford to get married because they can't pay the tax man...

>>4193779
Right about being taxed on the full amount I cashed out for? That would almost entirely wipe out my profits.

Fuck. Guess I’ll just have to buy back in and turn that 7k into 70k before April.

>>4193808
You must provide your cost basis - how much you paid. You are only taxed on your gains. Short term gains if held under a year and one day, or long term gains if held longer than that before selling.
You will be filling out a form with your taxes.

>>4193695

Also, expanding on my >>4193806 post, I have to add this disturbing scenario:
Legally speaking, ownership is divided into two things that be transferred separately: strictly-defined-ownership (who owns the property) and usufruct (who exploits the property for gain). In most cases one person has both, but they can be divided between different people.

Dad has 3 houses and his presumed income leads to $100 tax increase.
Son is a student with no income and 0 houses.
Dad gives ownership of 1 house (but keeps the right to manage the property and reap any profits from it) so he now has only $50 tax increase.
Son now has ownership of 1 house (but no rights to use the property in any way) and gets $15 tax increase.

Overall the family lowered the collective taxes paid.
What happens to the Son, who is a student with no actual income, if Dad refuses to give Son the $15 for the tax man?
You could argue that Son can sell the property get rid of it. But who's gonna buy only strictly-defined-ownership without the rights to use the property? Best case scenario: a loan-shark-type of guy for pennies and realistic case scenario: no one

>>4193932
Before December 31st. Your taxes are due in April but it is for 2017.

I'm going all in on salt before this comes out and sells for $25 to normies who want their bitcoin credit cards.

Not only that it's like 2.50 and can be used to pay down $25 of your interest when it comes out and makes it possible to enjoy some profits upfront with the potential to not have to sell any crypto and pay down any interest from gains alone

It's a no brainier at this point

>>4193941
Oh ok. I can deal with that then.

tfw nobody mentioned it might become a staking coin :------)

>>4194098
Do tell. I didn't know that!

>>4193965
it's not going to $25 immediately. I expect ~$7 when the market gets released followed by a dump from bagholders and then a slow gradual increase as the actual demand for the coins overtakes the supply. If you are a flipper just sell it for 2-3x in december and more on.

I personally think it's more lucrative to use the cheap Salt you can buy now to take out loans whenever Bitcoin crashes again.

>>4193359
Only in Europe would you get taxed for getting into debt. That's ridiculous to get taxed on your student loans for example. A loan is not income, it's debt.

salt me up

>>4193140
>If you have the money in the first place why do you need a loan?
Here's one simple reason: inflation.
The dollar is inflationary (losing 2% in value a year), so it's easier to pay back later. Bitcoin is deflationary (gaining at least 10% a year), so you never want to spend it and lose potential gains.

Also, you get taxed up to 50% on your crypto profits in America. So why would you want to lose half your stack just to spend it somewhere else? Taking a 2% loan (that's tax deductible) lets you use more of the money on another investment.

It doesn't make sense to give away half your stack on taxes.

>>4186679
what kind of term limits can we expect?

>>4194135
It took them 4 weeks to release my ico coins

The site didn't work when I tried to withdraw

Dumped the shit immediately

So far it seems they have to technical expertise

Looking for a lead dev atm


No product, vapor Ware

Literally no coders, can't write a smart contract to do simple fucking things


In theory sound good but a team of retarded monkeys just might beat them to market

>>4194490
enjoy being poor due to judging them over a few hickups in alpha testing

>>4194343
As I understand it, the simplistic justification would be something along the lines of:
>you paid back $100k this year? but you say you only made $50k this year?
>bullshit, that means you made at least $100k this year
>unless you prove to us you paid it with reserve money
>then we need you to justify where that reserve money came from
>hope you kept a perfect record of your finances for your entire economical life, or we won't believe you
(oversimplified example because there are multiple additional factors in the final sum you gotta pay, but illustrates the concept and application of loan based presumption)

>I took a loan to start a business
>My business is not making any/enough profit
>I still have to make payments
>I know, I'll use some of the loan money I haven't spent yet to make a payment
>Tax man says you made money and need to be taxed
>???
>no profit

>>4194490
>The site didn't work when I tried to withdraw
Maybe because everyone that invested during the ICO wanted to access it at the same time overloading the servers
>Looking for a lead dev atm
This suggests they are looking for a permanent long term employee for the third party API they were planning to create after their product releases
>No product, vapor Ware
It's coming out next month right on schedule...
>In theory sound good but a team of retarded monkeys just might beat them to market
1 month....

What's to stop me from taking out one of these crypto backed loans, receiving cash, buying more crypto and taking out another loan... and just keep on doing this again and again.. effectively leveraging my position to the fucking sky?

There's no credit checks, and looks like there will be easily fakeable ID checks, so if my position gets called, I can just run away and leave SALT with the mess.

One of the things I'm most interested in is if investing in SALT tokens can be used as a good hedge against BTC. If you look here- https://www.sifrdata.com/cryptocurrency-correlation-matrix/ you can see that every coin pretty much follows BTC, so when BTC drops all your coins drop, that causes inefficiency in your crypto portfolio. Fiat is ok but it stays the same. What if you had a crypto that actually increased when BTC dipped? None of those cryptos in that chart even get close to the blue level, which would mean they go up when BTC goes down.

I'm wondering how SALT tokens will behave when the lending is actually running this December. Think about it, when will people need SALT the most? During dips in BTC when people need access to fiat to buy more BTC.

>>4195200
> /facepalm

Thats not how this works.

Read first.

https://membership.saltlending.com/files/abstract.pdf

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DsQXQYREZLc&t

>>4195200
They only allow one loan out at a time, to prevent that scenario.

>>4195257
pic related

>>4195320
Is it not relatively easy to create virtual bank accounts to get around this? (I honestly don't know)

I love how retarded some people are :)

Allows me to accumulate more and more each week at these kinds of prices.

>>4195200
>taking out one of these crypto backed loans, receiving cash, buying more crypto and taking out another loan
Fees and reserve amounts would eat into every loan you retake.
Also they would sell your stack before losing any money, so being highly leveraged like that would give you little downside room before being liquidated.

It would be funny if autosales caused by liquidated collateral via salt lending resulted in the largest BTC crash since it went above 3kUSD.

never ever go fully retard m8 :) ..

check like these groups and just sell all of them when it's the pick point of the price ..damn u dont really think correctly :) ..salt - riple..etc dead coins https://discord.gg/g2WEGpw

>>4195670
>dead coins
You're an oldfag speculator who doesn't understand coins beyond being simple currency and pump and dump material.

>Individual, non-Accredited Investors are not eligible to lend on the SALT platform.

Now why the hell is that?

>>4195253
Salt will not be used for that mostly. I will use that for sure yeah. But I think most people will just use it as a tax loophole or if a normie bitcoin holder wants to buy an Iphone X2 or whatever and doesn't have his salary yet and he wants that phone NOW.

>>4195593
This lending platform will make bitcoin rise even faster. If bitcoin wasn't a bubble right now it sure is going to be after december!

Can you imagine Bitcoin being $10,000 in january and it being $100,000 in march? Because that is completely plausible if they prises are rising really fast everyone and their mum will borrow money to buy more BTC.

>>4196000
Damn you're right. And if the bubble bursts, the crash will be insane due to SaltLending too. Holy shit this lending caused bubble I hope this doesn't happen.

Fingers crossed that having 2x collateral in value is highly incentivized.

>>4196180
Nah this is how you get rich quick and then step out.

BTC will be a bubble in the long run anyway what true value does it provide? Confidence. Once it crashes once for real that is over and we will be left with ETH and other actual value adding coins. The googles and amazons of crypto.