/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>28181311
DR;NS

>not doing anything with it

Actually im doing exactly with it what its supposed to be done with it, store value. Its serving its function as intended.

holy shit boys we have a genius here

>>28181311
Whats your point?

>>28181425
>massively volatile
>store of value

Pick one

>>28181311
Go back to r/Buttcoin, tranny

>>28181425
nice store of value when it can crash 30% in one day

>>28181471
volatility with higher highs and higher lows.

>>28181518
>oh no have to wait a year to take out my long hold

>>28181518
>crash
lmao
ill just accumulate more and see you in 10 years swervin down the street in my lambo

>>28181523
So? That has nothing to do with storing value. You’re speculating.

>>28181471
>>28181518
My index fund has lows and highs and averages out to win in the end.

My bitcoin has lows and highs and averages out to win in the end.

Its not a get rich quick scheme, its not a ponzi scheme, its an efficient, effective, and easy way to store mass amounts of value, without the need for any government powers or banking institutions.

It cannot be controlled or manipulated, no more can be created, it cannot be devalued by the government like fiat can, and is, every single second.

Bitcoin is digital gold, and it is infinitely more effective for storing value than gold. You and most of the world don't have the foresight or intelligence to understand this, it will take another 1-2 decades before you and the majority of the world understand it.

Until then, people like me, and other tech/nerd/autists/neets, will become the next 1%ers of the coming decades, and you normalfags and midwits will not understand how it happened

>>28181585
>yes please I’d like a bank account where I might randomly have to wait a year to have the same amount of money I do now
>it’s a great store of value guys

Stop lying to yourself. If you have to lie to yourself to buy something you’re going to get burned

>>28181471

Exactly. Every single person who has ever bought bitcoin in it's history, except for some people yesterday, would have gained value had they held.

>>28181311
You are the fool that doesn't profit from it.

>>28181311
Yep. And the point is?

>>28181724
>infinitely more effective for storing value than gold
Gold isn’t utterly reliant on a massive interconnected global system of high technology. Gold just sits there and never tarnishes.

You idiots are putting all your faith in a system that takes a massive amount of energy to sustain and taking it totally for granted. Anyway, this is all irrelevant to the original claim that an instrument that can go +- 30% in one day is a ‘store of value’. That’s just incorrect.

>>28181679
motherfuckers have been speculating since 2013 and make x1000 in the span of 12 months, boomers and genX are stuck on their stock market bullshit and they're happy when they make a 8% profit after 6 months.

Come on now.

It's a currency.
It's literally just forex trading without the bullshit.

>>28181311
I have the same coin.

>>28181311
yes and that setup is defined as a pyramid scheme but phwew boy just wait til you say that to tkids

>>28181311

>>28181679
Fiat is increasingly starting to look like speculation. Property is speculation. The stock market is speculation.

Whats yer point?

>>28181790
>coin go up so far, grug know coin go up forever

The more I see arguments like this from bitcoin bulls the more I’m certain you are wrong. You show zero education on basics like black swans, definition of money, economic principles like value and cycles.

Your imaginary money pot will go up, maybe 100x more, but you’ll never do anything with it anyway except spend it on pizza and hookers because you’re too greedy to cash out. And if it crashes because it’s purely a greater fool scheme, you’ll cry and look around and realise you spent all your time building nothing real.

>>28182014
So say that it’s a good speculation. Why make claims that aren’t true?

>>28181311
Good morning Peter.

>>28181311
bitcoin as a hedge against MMT

the most bearish thing for bitcoin is when the paris accord muh yearly european holiday crowd starts bitching about power usage.

>>28182191
My point is, if it is a good speculation, you don’t need to lie and say it’s a store of value. Just makes you look stupid.

>>28182191
>Property is speculation. The stock market is speculation.

This is what concerns me, you seem to know nothing at all about money.

>>28182191
>Fiat is increasingly starting to look like speculation
nobody is buying the dollar expecting it to fucking moon, lets not be retarded

>>28182312
the economy will likely start to mirror the perceived volatility of crypto. when the USD gradually stops being used as a reserve currency people are not going to be buying yuan.

>>28181311
gold is not an investment, like an investment in the equity or bond of a company. gold is just a digital thing who's value is determined by what the fool pays for it. Most people who own it, don't do anything with it. They just wait for another fool to pay a higher price.

>>28182593
holding it expecting it not to crash is kinda the same thing. and yes i know nothing about money so point taking. there's obviously, to my untrained eye, some sort of tectonic shift approaching in the next decade with respect to the USD.

>>28182689
>holding it expecting it not to crash
everybody knows that it has around 2% inflation rate

>>28182596
Yep, so 99.5% of people will start using the Fedcoin.

Bitcoin would be extremely inefficient for day to day transactions and if it really allows people to be untaxable and to hide money laundering, it will be made illegal. So what’s its value?

>but they can’t make it illegal!
Yes they can. Good luck explaining to the IRS where you got your lambo.

>>28182636
>he typed, on his gold-reliant device

Millenials are so fucking stupid it’s unbelievable. t. Zoomer

>>28181774
The money in your bank is losing value every day. The paltry interest they pay you doesn't even begin to cover your losses from inflation.

>>28181311
I use it as collateral for loans

>>28181311
>They just wait for another fool to pay a higher price.
Epic, here have my gold kind stranger!

>>28182689
Nobody really holds USD. They buy real things with it.

>>28181774
You might be too young to know this but life insurances used to be a thing and you'd put your money in there for 40 years before you saw any of it and if you wanted it earlier you'd have like a 50% cut. Bitcoin is a way better deal than that. Does what a life insurance does within a year instead of a lifetime.

>>28182636
most normies who own gold use it as jewelry

>>28182893
>implying I hold cash

>USD is bad therefore this other thing that’s wildly volatile is a store of value
Go and buy an economics textbook and read it, it will do your confused brain wonders

>>28182199
You'll be able to buy a Tesla with it soon though, how bout dat?

>>28182199
I'm already cashing out using loans against Bitcoin lmao
Cope

>>28181311
ok gramps, take it easy on the salt you gotta watch out for your blood pressure

>>28183015
So what?

>>28183013
I love how poorfags feel smug about their midwit take on economy

>>28183015
literally nobody buys stuff with bitcoin anymore
100% speculation value

Can someone explain after the block chain ends and the speculative bubble ends how the fuck bitcoins going to be practical to use as a everyday currency? Long as fuck transfer times with high as fuck fees.

How the hell is this imagery internet token going to ever be a practical viable way of exchanging currency?

Seem to be like some sort of neo-ponzi scheme.

I sold my alts for this shit after tesla news because everytime btc pumps alts shit the bed, WHY THE FUCK IS THIS NOT HAPPENING RIGHT NOW I AM ACTUALLY BLEEDING SATS HOLDING BITCOIN HOW IS THIS EVEN POSSIBLE WHY ARE MY ALTS OUTPERFORMING BTC RN REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>28183131
>practical viable way of exchanging currency?
by relying on a centralized third party

>>28182826
>your lambo
muh wut?

>making it illegal
maybe they would. at this point does that seem likely though? more likely there would be regulation, but that would only serve to lend legitimacy in a sense wouldn't it?

>>28182777
maybe 2% inflation ad infinitum with zero percent interest exponentially growing debt is sustainable forever. It has been so far.

>>28183147
Because this BTC rise didn't happen because of Alts taking profits but because new money flowing in. Everything goes ul

>>28183198
When will the btc fomo start tho should I buy my alts back?

>>28181311
Betting on the way people are going to use money is an investment, dingus

>>28183189
>maybe 2% inflation ad infinitum with zero percent interest exponentially growing debt is sustainable forever
it's literally designed that way so that people are incentivized to invest their dollars somewhere instead of holding

>>28183097
>lol I’m rich because I have more imaginary internet tokens than you

>>28183291
a bit of fraying at the edges though maybe. I'm speculating, as a layman, that inflation may, just possibly, rise above 2%

>>28183063
It's going to be big in five years midwit

>>28181928
I'm trading crypto and learning about programming and networks through it as well. Working out simple hashing algorithms and dissecting smart contracts, If you know more than me, feel free to correct me.

Bitcoin definitely takes a massive amount of energy to sustain, but we have massive amounts of energy with electricity. You think gold doesn't take massive amounts of energy to acquire, refine etc... ? I agree with you that gold is great, but it's significantly harder to cash out and make change with than bitcoin.

>>28183246
It has already started. Give it time. Institutional FOMO takes longer but is also more substantial. Don't expect sudden moves, just expect the price to go up over the next bunch of weeks/months. We'll go 70k smooth sailing and people will act like it's completely normal. FOMO starts at 90k when people race to get Bitcoin below 100k

>>28183390
it's more complicated you should read about it more because currently the spending is so much reduced due to the corona bs that we are risking deflation despite all the printing

>>28183551
ok so deflation then, like in the '20s? doesn't that amount to the same crisis for fiat? people losing faith in it

>>28183188
Doesn't that defeat the whole purpose?

>>28183551
government spending is certainly not reduced.

>>28183131
All Bitcoin does is pull money out of the economy for nothing. Like >>28183291 pointed out, you want low inflation on the currency because it incentivises people to buy real stuff with it instead of hodling.

I can see a hypothetical situation where bitcoin does just keep going up and up and up as everyone buys in and hodls, hoping for a great return later. Meanwhile the real economy stagnates through lack of investment, because no investment can match bitcoins performance.

Everyone who bought BTC is a millionaire on paper. Except they produced nothing in return for that buying power. So now there’s barely anything to buy, lots of people bidding for it, and lots of business never gets started because of lack of investment.

For example Elon Musk buying 1.5 billion in Bitcoin. If he doubles that money, he’s actually produced nothing with it. Whereas he could’ve invested it into any business, manufacturers say, and made a 20% return. Instead those businesses never get started and never produced the stuff. So when everyone is buying stuff with bitcoin, there will then be hyperinflation.

Basically bitcoin might be the hyperinflation middle man between USD and goods.

>>28181311
Sounds exactly like what goldbugs do with gold. They aren't building an Ark of the Covenant with it, they're locking it in a safe.

>>28183626
i realise that this is innacurate, money became incredibly valuable in the 20s, only most people didn't have access to it when the banks collapsed.

>>28181311
Ok Rabbi, thanks for thinking about my financial well being. I just sold.

>>28183626
>doesn't that amount to the same crisis for fiat?
why?

>>28183640
yes but it doesn't matter to them, all the narratives that they make are bs and they don't care as long as number go up

>>28181311
That’s a lot of words when you could have just said “I’m to big of a pussy to hold BTC”

>>28181928
Shut the fuck up smelly nigger. Do you determine the term for "store of value"

>>28183443
>we have massive amounts of energy with electricity

That costs, though, a LOT. And Gold does have a cost to produce, but thereafter has no maintenance costs. Unlike anything based on high technology which will always need high maintenance on a global scale. Any kind of disaster or war is going to jeopardise that system.

I’m not saying you shouldn’t have bought BTC in 2011 to make an epic speculation win, but the inherent value and sustainability/robustness of the system is a different matter.

Just remember the people cheering it on and spending their 300k BTC in their heads have never lived through a war, depression or rolling blackouts. They’re taking the system totally for granted.

>>28181311
and thats EXACTLY how you get rich

>>28182191
False.
I own a house because people ALWAYS need somewhere to live so I can ALWAYS rent and ALWAYS make money regardless of the economic climate.
Property isn't speculative.

>>28182993
Only because the pink wojaks are paying for it.

You did not debunk anything.

>>28183881
Words mean things, if you don’t like it, you can shut the fuck up because nobody cares about your opinion

When you invest in a young company, it usually is generating a loss for a while before it becomes profitable.
While bitcoin is utilized very little for now, it might become eventually to most popular and secure payment processor in the world.

>>28183974
>They’re taking the system totally for granted.

Also while doing nothing to help it survive. Ie not producing real value.

>>28181790
>tulip only go up
>t. dutch hodler

it can't grow infinitely, it keeps going up until it doesn't

>>28184263
>gold has no maintenance costs
It does, obviously. Fort knox isn't just sime shriner community hall. Though not as much as 1trillion dollar bitcoin mining in some retarded hypothetical future.

Just wondering, since you're obviously not hot on this whole thing, what you invest in. desu for me i'm a poorfag who really has the alternative of crypto or the fucking greyhounds down at the track.

Apparently anon here knows better than Tesla who will be accepting Bitcoin as payment for their cars.

What is your IQ anon? must be at least 1000, you obviously know something all the big brains at Tesla don't.

>>28182893
Nigger the money in my bank is for spending I ain’t tryin to make money on that

>>28181311
Actually, Bitcoin is great for the electricity industry.
I am unironically all in on dividend energy stocks.

>>28184537
You don’t have to store your gold in a fort though. You can bury it in your yard completely unprotected and it will still be there in 10,000 years. You HAVE to maintain global internet for BTC to be useful.

I have all my wealth in land and capital (tools and machinery that MAKE money).

>>28181311
Thanks for fudding, gonna acoomulate more

>>28184833
And when I have enough of those I’ll be buying dividend stocks diversified across primary and secondary industries

>>28184588
How do you know they’re not pumping and dumping? They bought in Jan. Elon Musk is a pied piper for midwits

imagine
JUST IMAGINE
watching an asset go from worth literally $0.00 to $45,000 in the span of 12 years
an asset that requires no trust, YOU own it and only YOU can send it
no bank necessary to facilitate your transactions
no banks can use it to speculate with while rewarding you with near zero (or even negative) interest rates
no central bank eternally inflating your wealth away
you cannot be banned from using it
secure, fungible and mathematically designed to preserve your hard earned cash

I'm not at all saying preppers and gold/silver bugs are retarded by the way, checking out of this gay system is based in my book
but if you've known about bitcoin for years and you're STILL fudding because you STILL do not understand why it has ANY worth at all, you are literal cattle
dumb useless fucking nigger cattle
you are a lower life form
you are worthless
and you will never understand

>>28185022
I Just dont want to buy the top for one time

>>28185022
Would you buy at 45k? If so, why?

>>28185252

>>28184745
dont buy the gold
sell the shovels, fren

Bitcoin is Satoshi Nakamoto's exit scam. Watch his addresses with 1,000,000 bitcoins get sold

>>28185252
DCAing is the safest way, don't try to be a day trader, few succeed
in my eyes stacking sats is all that matters in the end, really, don't sweat the details
this might come in handy: dcabtc.com
>>28185297
I will continue my bitcoin purchases in set intervals, whether it goes up or down
the current price is irrelevant to me, because years down the road it just won't matter

>>28181311
I'm a fool who made millions... Go back to your post in Mcdonald's now and stop talking shit about the king.

>>28185943
>years down the road it just won't matter
Why are you so sure it will continue up indefinitely?

>>28185297
Ive bought at $450

Ive bought at $4500

Ive bought at $45000

I will continue buying even at $450000

If you understood at all what Bitcoin is, you would too.

>>28186100
LGT

>>28181311
shut up wagie get in cagie

>>28181311
i want a physical bitcoin stack for the lols

>>28186100
This is the correct answer. Shame it has taken me years to realise it (still hold a small stack from 2017 though)

>>28181425
>store of value
>sole purpose is to be resold to someone else at a higher price

>>28181311
You must be 18 to post

>>28181311
BTC's value is purely what I can make off using the Normans to swing.

>>28186100
What is Bitcoin? A speculative token for wasted energy?

>hard mode, what is bitcoin that other coins can’t do

>>28186100
Based.

>>28186100
>still doesn’t post a reason

>>28181311
load the korea fud

>>28181311
these shit takes are always an indicator for big market moves

>>28181311
Good, don't buy it.

How bad of an idea is to buy bitcoin right now? Will the price continue to moon or wait for a dip?

>>28186435
What is the US dollar? A worthless piece of paper that has value because the government said so? It isn't even backed by gold anymore. Oh and what is gold? Just a shiny mineral that people agreed to keep valued far above it's practical uses as a means to preserve wealth.
Woah dude, think about art! Why is a picasso worth millions? It's literally just paint on a canvas lol. What sort of retard buys that?

>>28181311
YOU HAD 12 YEARS

>>28187736
Who said anything about the USD? There are a lot of places to put your money.

>gold is useless! He typed, on his device made with Gold

I’m not asking about Gold or USD. I’m asking about Bitcoin and what’s special or unique about it.

>>28187736
lern2economy faggot, it's backed by the strongest economy in the world and a central bank which sole purpose is to make sure that the inflation is 2% so if you have a 100 dollar bill in your hands today, you can be pretty sure that it will have 98 dollar worth of purchasing power of you wait a year

>>28188022
>gold is useless! He typed, on his device made with Gold
Read again. Where did I say gold is useless? I said it's valued far above it's practical uses. Are you seriously gonna argue against that? Even if it's valued above it's practical uses doesn't mean is a ponzi or a bubble, see? Just like a piece of art. Do you understand that?
>I’m asking about Bitcoin and what’s special or unique about it.
It's been around for more than 10 years for fucks sake. Can't you just google and find out? You're FUDIng bitcoin and you don't even understand it. Retard.

>>28188043
Allright, stay in denial while I hold my BTC and skim a bit off the top to buy something or another.

>>28188426
I do understand it. What I don’t understand is how every time I ask what’s uniquely valuable about bitcoin, literally nobody can answer.

Gold is a valued hedge because
>will always be highly in demand for electronics production and jewellery
>low in supply from natural rarity
>can’t be destroyed, easily hidden, doesn’t depend on any other systems to exist

Now you tell me in 3 points why BTC is uniquely valuable, other than
>other people will buy it off me for more next year, because chart go up chart never come down

>>28188776
Thought not.

By the way, the question of is blockchain/crypto technology going to take over the world (yes) and is Bitcoin going to be worth $100,000 (maybe) are two different questions.

>>28183710
>buying BTC means that USD can't be invested
>BTC/USD transaction causes USD vanish
???

>>28188043
>the strongest economy in the world
That "strongest economy in the world" is on fucking life support.

>>28190043
>trillions of dollars converted to bitcoin and held
>opportunity cost of those dollars being invested into the economy

>>28185022

>>28181311
>Most people who own it, don't do anything with it
Hello what are drug money bye

>>28191182
They use monero retard

>>28181311
>They just wait for another fool to pay a higher price.

No, you just wait for central banks to devaluate more.

>>28181928
Any gold that you don't happen to have stashed under your pillow sure is.

>>28190766
Those trillions of dollars go to whomever sold you retard. They can be invested into the economy by the seller at any time.

>>28181425
Based

>>28181311
Do you realize youve added nothing to this board but spam? This post was a waste, and you are a midwit whether it's a joke or not.

>>28191315
Except if the price keeps going up and people keep buying in, it’s still a net loss of liquidity. You retard.

I have $2, I buy in for $1, there’s $1 tied up and $1 free. Now someone buys my position off me for $2. Now there’s $2 tied up and $2 free. It can end with half the wealth in the economy being held in BTC and not spent on investment.

How is this different than any other asset? Stocks dont pay dividends anymore so what is it other than some thing we agree on a price for?

>>28181311
Nice opinion.
The market things otherwise.
>muh crash muh bear market
It sets a higher low every single fucking time. I low how retards who don't even look at the fucking charts know everything best.

>>28181311
buttcoin is dumb, no one uses it as money, except to buy porn, drugs, cc #'s, people. McD's ain't taking buttcoin anytime soon.

>>28181311
Yes of course we're waiting for people to pay a higher price. Thats what makes it a store of value. Idiot.

>>28191945
Bitcoin is digital gold. Do you buy your McD's with gold? No. Are you rich if you have lots of it? Yes. Why? Because it is desirable and valuable and can be converted into whatever currency or rocks the barbarians in any state in the world value as their mode of payment. This might be some shitcoin like doge in the future, or it might be fiat, or it might be boomer rocks. Who knows. Bitcoin will buy it for you though wherever you are.

>>28188776
>What I don’t understand is how every time I ask what’s uniquely valuable about bitcoin, literally nobody can answer.
you just don't want to hear the answer.
it's so simple. bitcoin is limited in supply. it's also durably unique. nobody can make more bitcoin then preordained. but anyone can make an other shitcoin in any quantity.

>>28191803
I get what you're saying now, but aren't you just describing the market transitioning from one form of currency to another? If USD is illiquid but everyone has BTC, businesses will just start accepting BTC as a means of exchange.

>>28192246
>Bitcoin is digital gold.
no it's not. there is literally infinite amount of gold in the universe and billions of tonnes of gold are created every second.

>>28181311
Replace Bitcoin with gold and say that again

Drops mic

Gold is not an investment, like an investment in the equity or bond of a company. Gold is just a physical thing who's value is determined by what the fool pays for it. Most people who own it, don't do anything with it. They just wait for another fool to pay a higher price.

>>28188022
>I’m not asking about Gold or USD. I’m asking about Bitcoin and what’s special or unique about it.
Technically a shitcoin, but the first one with such a high adaption, that it can actually be used for decentralized payments (read: illegal) and is the universal fall back. There are better by now, but anywhere you can pay with crypto, you can pay with bitcoin.

>>28181724
>Until then, people like me, and other tech/nerd/autists/neets, will become the next 1%ers of the coming decades, and you normalfags and midwits will not understand how it happened
you wish retarded

>>28192517
Yes, except a currency appreciating ~20% a year is really, really bad. Why would you start a lambo factory (or a farm) for a huge risk and potential 5% returns in 5 years when you could just hold your currency and make 20%.

Its just dawning on me how bad this could be. Say you cash out in 10 years when you’ve made a billion dollars. You look around for a lambo supplier but the guy who would have supplied them saw Bitcoin and said ‘fuck it, I’ll just put my money there’. Now the very short supply of lambos is bid to the moon by all the other BTC holders taking profits. In relative buying power (to others), you’ll end up the same as where you started, except you haven’t produced anything and neither has anyone else, making the whole economy poorer.

Fuck.

So let me get this straight, Microstrategy and Tesla do capital raises to buy Bitcon which makes Bitcon go up, which makes Microstrategy and Tesla more valuable thanks to the Bitcon they just bought, squeezing the shorts just like Gamestock, enablling them to do another capital raise to buy more Bitcon which makes Bitcon go up which makes Microstrategy and Tesla go up enablling them to do another capital raise and so on and so on? Rinse and repeat? It only took them 10 years to decide Bitcon is worth 100's of millions of their company's cash? Microstrategy? Tesla? Only 10 years? How long does it take these guys to match their socks in the morning? These guys must be rocket scientists. LOL. Only 10 years! They like Bitcon at $30,000 plus, not at $1000 or $5000? Obviously this is a Ponzi. They should be investing in farm land if they don't want cash. How about buying their own stock back? Because their stocks are wildly overvalued. And what happens when all the Chinese are done hiding their wealth in the wake of the "Disappeared" Millionaire Billionaires? The Chinese will pay any price for Bitcon. That will end. Gold is being accumulated by the illuminati while the peasants are being suckered into the mother of all ponzi schemes. I remember Harry Blodget pumping dot com stocks and no one seeing the housing market bubble. And here we are again. New suckers born every day.

>>28181311
Hi Peter

>>28192910
Again, this problem is solved if lambo factories accept payment from customers and pay dividends to investors in BTC. However, I agree that we may be in for a rough ride until that becomes the norm.

>>28193848
My point is, BTC CANNOT go up forever and also become an acceptable currency. Nobody would invest in starting the lambo factory to begin with if they can just hold the currency. It’d be like the bank giving you 20% interest. You’d never bother to produce anything.

>>28181311
Speculative asset is the term your looking for. Same as gold. Technically gold is also a commodity but that purpose is eclipsed by its use as a speculative asset.

>>28194057
Hence the incentive to pay dividends in appreciating BTC if John Q. Factoryowner wants to attract investors.

>>28194060
There’s nothing speculative about an asset that has been used as a store of value for literally ten thousand years.

>>28183710
The juice is: the world works with inflatiation and an economy based on deflationary money is not sustainable. Everyone want to keep the money and not spend it

>>28194488
You’re not understanding what I’m saying. You probably take companies for granted, but people have to START them, for a gain, and taking a big risk.

Having an appreciating currency stops that from happening. If you’re going to get ~20% a year from Bitcoin, are you going to risk that to start a business?

Then who is? Who’s going to buy machinery to grow your food when they could just hold BTC?

Economies (the process that feeds and clothes you) DEPEND ENTIRELY on a non-appreciating currency.

I think BTC will keep going up since people don’t understand this, but if it’s allowed to keep rising forever it will destroy all real wealth by disincentivising its production.

>>28184050
That's speculation. Your town could become a ghost town in 30 years. New buildings could go up and nobody will rent from you anymore. A property you buy in a growing neighborhood, expecting it to get more valuable as the neighborhood grows, in order to sell it at profit, is the definition of speculation and is the standard of land investment.

>>28181311
yes it's a speculative asset, not an investment
congratulations on passing econ 101

>>28195022
Finally a smart anon

>>28192576
What is the value of a company but what the public decides it's worth, in the same way gold is? There is no intrinsic worth to anything besides necessities, but even a company that deals in necessities could be worthless when outcompeted

>>28183710
this is a good take. probably still going to buy in myself though. dont want to be left behind.

>>28195006
this is correct

>>28195416
Yeah, buy a ticket. But if anons want to be wealthy men in a wealthy society, they need to invest in its actual production.

>>28184745
god i wish that were me

>>28195006
but of course as individual you don't benefit from inflation directly. it just keeps everything going around.

>>28196363
The companies that produced your food, housing, clothes, and electricity (and everything else you use) only exist because of an inflationary currency

>>28196613
yes innovation and expansion is partially driven by inflation. but it would exist even on a deflationary currency to an extent. people always want more.

>>28181311
no one cares. value is subjective. thats why a pair of lous vuitton shoes cost 10x more than a pair of most other brands

>>28195022
Let me spell this out.
>Investor has a pile of USD to invest.
>He sees BTC appreciating in value relative to USD.
>He exchanges his USD for BTC.
>Investor now has a pile of BTC to invest in companies that will net him return in BTC.
You're acting like there's an opportunity cost where there is none. Investment and production will ultimately continue as usual, but with an alternative means of exchange.

>>28196824
People need motivation to work, it would exists yes, if the asset is deflationary but at the same time there's an hyperinflation. And we just return to today's monetary system

>>28181311
>Most people who own it, don't do anything with it. They just wait for another fool to pay a higher price.
Nice boomer low IQ opinion.
>Most people who own boomer rocks don't do anything with it. They just wait for another fool to pay a higher price.
>Most people who own boomer stonks don't do anything with it. They just wait for another fool to pay a higher price.

>>28197107
more like inflation means easily available cheap loans which drive innovation and expansion.

no loans it's all much harder you need hard capital and good robust business to expand and develop.

>>28197107
basically here is how i could sum it up:
the boom-bust cycle worked. in the boom ideas flourish inventions are realized and new ways are tried. then comes the bust where only the strong survive it is the evolutionary pressure the trial by fire that separates garbage business from good business.

when keynesians fuck with the bust cycle they remove the evolutionary pressure that forces bad business out of the market. and a huge monster bubble is formed while productivity is not really growing.

>>28183763
Thats literally what deflation means lmao, opposite of inflation USD became so valuable no one could use it.

>>28181311
Diamonds are not an investment, like an investment in the equity of bond of a company. Diamonds are just a physical thing who's value is determined by what the fool pays for it. Most people who own it, don't do anything with it. They just wait for another fool to pay a higher price.

>>28198104
diamons are also just carbon basically. awfully abundant element can be artificially formed.
literally worthless. should not be more expensive then swarovski.

>>28197309
Yeah also yes, imagine loans with a deflationary monetary system, would they even exists? (Put aside actual BTC, talking about a deflationary dollar)

>>28181724
>no more can be created
This is sort of a meme. Remember who you’re starting to attract anon: institutional boomers.

What have Jewish institutional boomers done with other “””””limited supply””””” assets? Inflated them with paper promises.

You’re going to see the same shit with BTC. Fuck, you already do to a large extent through the exchanges. Well over 21m are owned by people, they just only have to “become real” when withdrawn.

Boomers are going to inflate BTC to billions of supply through invented derivatives. And your muh limited supply asset will go the way of: stocks, gold, silver, etc.

>>28198780
>imagine loans with a deflationary monetary system, would they even exists?
well if history thought us anything then no. in deflation it's awfully hard to procure loans and also hard to secure loans...

just think about it. lending out your btc, so that there is a possibility to lose it when it makes you 360% annually? to get an other 10%? how does that make sense?

>>28199115
>What have Jewish institutional boomers done with other “””””limited supply””””” assets? Inflated them with paper promises.
i head this brainlet talk all the time. but no futures contracts are bets do not inflate the supply. just as bets on horses don't multiply horses.

>>28181415
Didn't Read
Now Sneed?

>>28199246
First of all I didn’t say futures I said all derivatives. And when you have derivatives that CLAIM to promise a real Bitcoin and the market treats it as such (see: SLV etc) then yes you’ve effectively inflated the supply.

>>28199415
well no the market doesn't treat slv the same as physical silver. that's nonsensical.

and yes not your keys not your coins. if you count the btc on an exchange or in a fund as "yours" you may be disappointed.

>>28199579
Physical silver spot has approximately a 7% premium over SLV right now.

Do you really think boomers aren’t going to print billions of BTC promises and happily pocket 93% of the value?

>>28199792
physical silver has a 55% spread on it on a bad day what's that 7%? nothing. it's also illiquid as fuck.

i always try to warn people to stay the fuck away from that retarded market. but nobody ever listens.

Every company on earth will use BTC in their reserves. Not too late to get in. Shitcoiners will be wrecked.
ExaChad allocation:
95% BTC
5% alts

>>28199134
Yeah that's what I thought

>>28197097
>Investor now has a pile of BTC to invest in companies that will net him return in BTC
Who would bother to start these companies when they can just wait a year and have 20% more buying power?

>>28181311
Midwit posting is really getting out of hand.

>>28197097
*start or invest in. Why buy shares now when in a years time you can buy 20% more?

You can’t argue that a deflationary currency can be sustained. BTC has to stop growing before it can be a currency.

>>28200934
20% what is this fud?

>>28201070
I can’t believe how low IQ this board is. You can learn everything you need to know about bitcoins future by the drooling retard responses of its bulls

>>28201261
it wouldn't cost you much to google bitcoins average annual appreciation tho... literally a click away.

>>28201579
I was being conservative. BTC appreciating 40-50% a year makes my argument way stronger.

You can’t base an economy on a currency that nobody wants to spend because it will be worth way more next year.

>>28200934
They retain that +20% buying power plus the profit of their business if payment is accepted in BTC. Why is this so hard for you to understand?

>>28183974

>no maintenance costs
what about security and transportation? Bitcoin has no maintenance costs if it's just sitting in a wallet

fucking brianlet holy shit

>>28201719
>BTC appreciating 40-50% a year
try 360% on average 530% this year. but of course we have worse years obviously

>>28184833

Bitcoin can be run over HAM radio if needed you dumbass

>>28201719
>You can’t base an economy on a currency that nobody wants to spend because it will be worth way more next year.
also i have no argument there. bitcoin was used briefly as cash substitute in it's early highly inflationary period. but that's over. bitcoin is not a hot potato anymore.

>>28185022
based beyond

>>28201062
BECAUSE YOU'RE BUYING SHARES AND EARNING RETURNS IN BTC. YOU CAN'T BUY MORE SHARES IN A YEARS TIME BECAUSE ITS VALUE IS RISING AT THE SAME RATE AS THE CURRENCY IT'S TIED TO.

>>28181311
>Bitcoin is not an investment, like an investment in the equity or bond of a company. Bitcoin is just a digital thing who's value is determined by what the fool pays for it. Most people who own it, don't do anything with it. They just wait for another fool to pay a higher price.

>>28188043

>don't worry you're only using 2% of your purchsaing power every year, you can trust in our shitty failing economy where we print 5T dollars over a 12-month period because of an overblown case of the sniffles

seething nocoiners

>>28202161
>looking for any excuse to discard the point you don’t like

Ngmi

>>28188776

>what is uniquely valuable about bitcoin
nothing in terms of technology, but everything in terms of network effect. what's uniquely valuable about instagram? A virtual picture book that you can tag your friends in? Any 6-month coding bootcamper can create an instagram clone. It's the network effect, same reason why Ethereum is superior to other 'eth-killers'. Tech is all about first-mover advantage and network effect

>>28202657
So all transactions will be in BTC? Your grandma will buy her groceries in it?

>>28200147
no love for eth?

>>28198104
It's nigh impossible to sell used diamonds tho. They are totally useless and very common materials with excellent PR. Unless you find a mark who's an idiot, the resale value is 0.

>>28181311
>most people who buy gold don't do anything with it, they just wait for another fool to pay a higher price.
>most people who buy silver don't do anything with it, they just wait for another fool to pay a higher price.
>most people who buy art don't do anything with it, they just wait for another fool to pay a higher price.
>most people who buy stocks don't do anything with it, they just wait for another fool to pay a higher price.

>>28182046
Is it made out of gold? That would be funny

>>28181311
Crypto was meant to be untraceable. You exchange fiat shit for it and bought other shit. Bitcoin has failed it's primary purpose. Being equated to digital gold is moronic just like owning stock in actual gold and not the physical thing itself. The crypto market is treaded the same way as the stock market, and that's the fucking problem.

>>28194057
If it stabilises at 1 trillion dollars a coin of course it could be used as either currency or a store of value. The problem with it presently is its volatility caused by it being a new asset which hasn't found its value yet.
>inbf4 "its ten years old". Thats new. Gold has been around for millenia.

>>28202756
excellent rebuttal

>>28195022
>You probably take companies for granted, but people have to START them, for a gain, and taking a big risk

You think you're smart but you're full of shit. I started a company and i certainly didn't do it because of inflation. The dollar was deflationary in the 50s and 60s and it was a golden era in the US. You've been brainwashed by Keynesian economic theories that are provably wrong, but think you're all-so educated.
>hurr it's not sustainable
Truth is, inflation is nothing new, and whenever a currency was inflationary, it meant the DECLINE of a civilization, and whenever it was a strong deflationary or stationary trend, it meant the RISE of one. For literally 1000s of years this was true, but sure, be a good goy and talk about how the economy would go to the shitter without inflation.

>>28203565
>one time shipping cost of like 0.01% of the value is relevant

No rebuttal needed

so this guy has just been angrily banging on his keyboard for the last 6 hours?

>>28203354
how is a public ledger supposed to be untraceable, where does satoshi say it should be untraceable?

you think a cryptographer like satoshi would have created a supposedly 'untraceable' currency based around the use of a public ledger?

>>28203399
>storing a trillion $ in a coin
>store of value
You niggers are absolutely retarded. 1 solar flare can wipe out your wealth

>>28203071
Does your grandma buy her groceries in gold coins? No. She buys it with easily traded pieces of paper that (((used to be))) backed by a scarce good like gold. BTC is a scarce digital good and is therefore a natural substrate on which to base a more easily traded digital currency.

>>28184957
>Elon Musk is a pied piper for midwits
>Buy 1.5 billion in BTC
>Tweet for the midwits
>Midwits buy BTC
>Price goes up
>Musk sells all his BTC
>Midwits stuck holding the bag

>>28203678

The cost to ship gold is higher than the transaction fee of bitcoin. Or have you never shipped a large amount of gold? (we're not talking grams of gold here, becasue in that case it's way more than 0.01% akin to sending $50 worth of BTC)

As a bonus, the time of transfer and fungibility are superior with bitcoin

>>28181311
speculation is agreeing on how much is worth something

>>28203811
A solar flare wipes out US Dollars too, retard. Even the physical ones in your mattress go to 0 when that happens

>>28203672
I didn’t say people start companies BECAUSE of inflation dumbass. Some deflation is good, but you wouldn’t have started that company if deflation was 300% (like BTC). That’s a massive risk disincentive.

You need a whole society to use a currency for deflation to be stable. So tell me, is BTC going to be used to buy everyone’s groceries? Because if not it can only be damaging.

>>28203956

Besides with gold, it's very difficult to know if you're not buying a gold coated brick of lead until you purchase it, unless you buy directly from a trusted mint, but that centralized power and control is the whole reason of the decentralization movement

>>28181311
stay poor faggot, have fun with your near infinite m2 value and hyper inflation

>>28185022
You are the cattle my friend. Blockchain solves nothing. Not a single problem has been solved with it. Maybe you'll be lucky enough to get rich off of this stuff, but stop pretending like BTC is actually good for any of the reasons you listed.

>>28203956
Nobody is claiming massive shipments of gold will be the currency of the future.

>>28181311
have fun staying poor, shlomo

>>28203354
>untraceable
Wrong retard, the point was each transactions is traceable. But the person who made the transaction isn't. Your anonymity only becomes compromised when an address gets associated with your identity, ie using an exchange with KYC

>>28204286

moving the goddamn goalposts, fuck this guy

>>28204348
I like pucci

>>28202756
That’s literally you this whole thread. Do you get paid for this?

>>28204088
>A solar flare wipes out US Dollars too,
Of course it fucking does.
Gold Backed Currency.

>>28203843
This is all feasible, but if everyone uses it, it will have to be stable. It can’t soar in buying power anymore if everyone has it.

So when are you going to take profits? Why should it be worth 100k if everyone knows it has to stabilise at some point? Who’s buying it at ATHs knowing it will have to stop appreciating to be actually worth using as the currency?

>>28203743
Yeah and he's clearly the only poster with a brain on this board. This place really is full of retards.

>>28204700
>so why is BTC good as a currency?
>WELL ACTUALLY GOLD BAD BECAUSE BLAH BLAH BLAH
>that’s irrelevant
>STOP MOVING GOALPOSTS

>>28181311
It's a decent store of wealth and is cheaper than buying a vault for your gold and precious physical metals.

All you need is a paper wallet and drug dealer common sense.

>>28204348
>shlomo being poor ever
How many years have you lived in this universe to be that ignorant.

>>28181311
why does a non-dividend share in a company have value, OP?

>>28195022
look at that brainlet kek
fuck your meme economy
lowering production of useless shit is good

>>28203743
It’s snowing and my car is being serviced.

>Not spending 6 hours questioning something that apparently could make you a millionaire

>>28203743
Also, go and count how many gets I’ve got ITT

>>28205261
you brought up gold mother fucking idiot lmao

>>28181311
I get 6% APY on my Bitcoin and 8.6% on my USDC. Seethe.

>>28206248
No I didn’t you dumb chimp. Go up that chain and see who brought up gold. As usual it’s some retard saying x is valuable because y isn’t.

>>28182927
As if no one saves money in USD. I am sure there lots of ppl who store their savings in USD.

get this into your head

>>28206652
>>28206010
>>28205833
>>28205261
>>28205132
>>28204286
>>28204167
>>28203678
>>28203071
>>28202756
>>28201719
>>28201261
>>28201062
>>28200934
>>28196613
>>28195963
>>28195022
>>28194057
>>28192910
>>28191803
>>28190766
>>28189887
>>28188776
>>28188022
>>28187162
>>28186435
>>28186086
>>28185297
>>28184957
>>28184907
>>28184833
>>28184263
>>28184116
>>28183974
>>28183710
>>28183299
>>28183063
>>28183013
>>28182927
>>28182881
>>28182826
>>28182511
>>28182312
>>28182266
>>28182199
>>28181928
>>28181774
>>28181679
>>28181471
damn, you're one annoying mf.
I hope you get laid more.

>>28186086
>1,000,000
We're not sure but 0.3 chance of 10x is good enough for me.

>>28181311
>They just wait for another fool to pay a higher price.
do you know the basic difference between bitcoin and alts?
we who hold bitcoin KNOW that those that buy our bags can sell it even higher. we know this for a FACT.
your moral high-ground doesn't exist.

>>28207260
I got the info I needed to make my decisions, sorry to bother you

>>28181311
The debate is over anon

Bitcoin is not an investment, like an investment in the equity or bond of a company. Bitcoin is just a once in a history event where the value is determined by every item on earth divided by 21 million. It's literally going to change everything.

>>28206652

well you took up his argument by replying so that was the basis of my post, read the full context before spouting off your nonsense

>>28207843
Or its value will plummet as it we get closer to mining it all

>>28208783
>New currency entering circulation causes its value to increase.

>>28209172
Pretty amazing to me there are still people will internet connections that don't know the meaning of common words

>>28182928
gtfo
youre not welcome plebb

>>28187534
I have been hearing this question since bitcoin was $650 when I first got into bitcoin.

>>28210851
if you were gonna see where BTC ends up, anons wouldnt even ask to wait for dips..

>>28183710
dumbest post on biz

>>28204209
t. jew nigger
>Blockchain solves nothing
how about a financial network impervious to state actor changes

>>28199343
Not selling you gook faced baboon

>>28207260

its that retarded meth anon isnt it? every time btc rises 1000 bucks in value he screams out in pain

>>28182040
Not even close to a currency you absolute fucking retard

>>28181471
then you are the lone celibate in a room full of masturbators. At some point they are gonna jizz all over your face.

>>28212377
Well fuck you and your digits too, you fat-riddled amerilard estrogen-pilled basement dweller!

>>28181679
how about you speculate my nuts, anon