/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>27244932
>20 cad for obsolete boomer advice

>>27244932
>What am I in for?
just go ahead and read instead of shitposting on 4chan

>>27244932
>paying for a book
lol jst pirate it fag

>>27244932
It'd be a good book, except for the fact that nowadays bonds are pretty irrelevant, so only like a half of it matters.

>>27244932
Is this book the biz equivalent of 12 rules for life?

>>27245096
Prager U says bonds are relevant

>>27245163
>Prager U
kek a youtube channel that pretends to be a university

>>27245163
>Prager U says bonds are relevant
kek
Seriously, even if you're really defensive it's still better to put your money in S&P500 or even Russell 1000.

Obsolete

clown market

do research

might as well check this out while you're at it:
https://www.trendfollowing.com/whitepaper/Edwin_LeFevre_Reminiscences_of_a_Stock_Operator.pdf

It's a good book and you'll really understand value investing once you finish it. I think everyone who signs up with a broker should be forced to read it before they're allowed to start trading.

>>27245864
Nobody gives a shit about value investing. If they did they would be buying $BAT right now. Instead they are gambling away on memes like $GME or $dogecoin or other overvalued memes.

>>27245490
Actually, you can substitute bonds with SPACs caught at low prices. Bonus points if they're trading under $10. You just have to be careful not to get in after a merger has been announced.

>>27244932
The whole thing is useless garbage. 50% TQQQ:TMF and hold forever, or just follow memes on /smg/ if you want to make money without risk.
YOLO on pennies if you want infinite risk.
That's all there is to it.
Value investing hasn't been a thing for at least 40 years.

>>27245749
Nice.

>>27245072
>paying for a book in the age of the internet

he already isn't gonna make it, kek

>>27246003
Value investors did fine in 2020. Nobody is value investing with crypto retard shut the fuck up.

>>27246100
Value investors lost ~10% for the year in 2020.
Sane investors made >200%.

>>27244932
it’s terrific but the general advice is more valuable than most of the specific advice nowadays. it’d be kind of dumb to be a pure value investor in 2021 though desu. we’re heading for a depression due to hyperinflation in the next several years so equities and bonds are gonna be worthless for the next decade I’m guessing

>>27244932
Protip: you can find this book and every other book like it at Goodwill for $2.

>>27244932
Before you buy any book, always search
>'whatever the title of the book is pdf'
So in this case
>'The Intelligent Investor pdf'
Do it in multiple search engines if the first search engine doesn't have it. You can find just about any book for free, and certainly scores of good finance books, including textbooks
https://www.pdfdrive.com/the-intelligent-investor-e34800943.html

https://www.pdfdrive.com/the-intelligent-investor-e34800943.html

>>27244932
>don't trade emotionally
>flip your stack between stocks and bonds
>don't speculate
>use bonds as a hedge against securities
>don't day trade or swing trade
>did I mention bonds?
>Just because an emerging technology is revolutionary does not mean the stock of the companies who employ it will be a great long term investment (airlines were his example, I have one of the later editions)
>bonds

>>27246633
Or just fucking go to library.lol

>>27244932
The current clown world is not tangible anymore.
18yo girls make 6figures off nudes without skills and redditors crash the stock market with memes..
you cant learn from books in 2021

>>27246794
what ratio bonds to stocks anon? 20/80?

>>27246003
>>27246296
That's funny I consider myself a value investor and I was up 90% in 2020. Sounds like a lot of "value investors" aren't really value investing.

>>27246367
An even better pro-tip: libgen.rs

>>27247289
More likely you don't know what value investing is or does. If you bought any tech during the dip, you're not value investing (they didn't go anywhere near low enough to be valid value). If you swung, you didn't value invest. Not that there weren't ways for value investors to make money: you could have gone heavy on airlines and cruises, for example. That would NOT be real value investing, because value investing implies you'll not be swinging this, and thus will be carrying these bags into retirement, but those kinds of companies go down over time.
Restaurants and boomer stocks (KO, JNJ, etc.) would have been the only things that truly qualify.
However, if you sold anything before the dip, you also weren't value investing at all in the first place, even if it was to buy back at the bottom.
So all in all, unless you were waiting on the sides with about your entire investment amount so far in cash waiting for a good entry, you did not make 90% value investing.

>>27247095
lol no he advises 50-50 stocks-bonds, even less if you are 'disquieted' about the market

>>27244932
It has decent knowledge, just a bit outdated, especially with the rise of the internet age. I got Principles by Ray Dalio and another book by Harry Browne, anyone got an idea of what I'm in for with those?

>>27246794
>Just because an emerging technology is revolutionary does not mean the stock of the companies who employ it will be a great long term investment
still applies to every vaccine company

>>27247928
Even more useless boomer bullshit with no connection to real life.

>>27244932
>paying for cringe

>>27246003
GME was a value play, the market cap was below liquidation value of the company when Burry and deepfuckingvalue bought in. It only became a squeeze play after Cohen got involved and provided a potential catalyst.

>>27248142
Yes and no. It was a value-based thesis for a short squeeze play. The difference is that it was meant to be swung at the top, and that the value thesis is not very interesting after the squeeze (you expect that it will go down to $10 and crab there for a while, if you're lucky and it manages to survive and expand, maybe it'll reach $20 by 2030, which is great gains mind, but the squeeze is far more potent). Of course, it was a perfectly fine value play at $6.

>>27248309
Maybe I'm just remembering it wrong, I didn't put much value in a squeeze thesis until Cohen wrote that letter to the board. I initially bought in around $8 last year and bought a lot more after Cohen's letter. Unfortunately I sold after he took over the board seats at around $38 since the squeeze didn't happen from that I figured it'd be just a slow burn of shorts covering over time like TSLA and I could get better gains from crypto this year. I didn't forsee the current craze I'd be up like a quarter mil if I hadn't sold lol

>>27244932
don't listen to the shitcoin bagholding non-whites or the gambling degenerates in here. The book is still extremely valuable

The sections on portfolio construction for the "enterprising" investor are pure gold. Whatever you get out of the book, at least remember this:
The amount of return you ever get from your stock picks is NEVER dependent on the amount of risk you take- Only on the time and intellect you dedicate to analysing securities. Risk must always be minimized and must be a process of elimination bottoms up

>>27244932
let me summarize it for you.

buy boomer index/mutual funds.

hold for 30 years

>>27247733
Oh but I did friend, I bought oil companies during the oil crash. And yes most of my money does sit on the sidelines, the market is completely stupid. My paycheck goes into bitcoin except for a few months back then when I bought into oil stocks.

Muh money burning a hole in my pocket is not an excuse to get lax on what value investing is. It simply stops being value investing at that point.

>>27249013
5x isn't bad, anon. I'm impressed with how chill you are about selling early.

>>27249073
>The amount of return you ever get from your stock picks is NEVER dependent on the amount of risk you take- Only on the time and intellect you dedicate to analysing securities.
Actually it's primarily based on entry price but analysis is important too.

>>27245163
Prager U literally had Mike Rowe, pic related, to tell you to give up on your dreams and become a laborer. When he's a fucking actor who was born with a silver spoon in his mouth.

>>27249372

>>27249478
basically the rightwing Bill Nye

It laid the groundwork for most modern personal finance, so if you've read any book on investing from the past 30 years it will retread a lot of the same ground.

>>27249073
Isn't it outdated? Who cares about grinding away at reading numbers to make 20% gains when there are 10x stocks blowing up everywhere?

>>27245002
>obsolete boomer advice

you mean lindy theories of investing. everything will return to lindy, faggot.

>>27249732
if you believe this bullshit you actually need to read TII

>>27246003

>Crypto is a value investment

Lmao, illiterates like you is why we make easy money in crypto.

>>27249732
The book isnt aimed at "traders" anon. And being a value investor does not preclude landing several tenbaggers along the way.
Look at NOK. Half of the folk on it are in it for the gamble but its a legit value play that would make Lynch and Graham froth in the mouth.

>>27245163
>Prager U

Who the fuck is that?

>>27247095
Iirc, he says a usual ratio of 50/50, never moving beyond 25/75 and vice versa depending on your outlook of the market.

Boomer information will not make you any money, they’re probably gonna recommend you invest into index funds then cash out when you retire.

>>27249227
>my paycheck goes into bitcoin
The opposite of value investing lmao
>yes most of my money does sit on the sidelines
Then that doesn't contradict my initial statement, obviously that isn't the case of the normal value investor. Well done, well done. HOWEVER, you could have won much more on memestocks.
>oil companies during the oil crash
Good luck with that, given beijing biden wants to stop being energy-independent and killed off keystone.
It was definitely a great value play however.
>money burning a hole in my pocket is not an excuse to get lax
There is always value to be found. Why didn't you go into utz, or gme, or wkhs? They were all value plays (gme was always hinging on a squeeze but at the low down you would at least have ended up picking the bottom).

>>27249478
Cut everything except 4, 5, 6 and 9 and it would be okay

>>27244932
You should read picrelated if you actually want to get rich. It contains the secret to amassing vast amounts of wealth.

If I remember right it basically boils down to
1) reduce expenses
2) put money into ETFs and mutual funds
3) you can secure your retirement this way by spending a few hours a year instead of spending half your life actively researching/investing so use that time on whatever else makes your life better

I think that's the gist. it's meant for people who aren't smart about their money and/or people who just want to have a relatively solid retirement without having to put a lot of effort into investing

>>27246831
and step on a needle as my eye catches some homeless dude's cum? No thanks

>>27249835
Alright I'm going to start reading it right the fuck now. I'm a newfag even though I've been lurking /biz/ for a long time, sorry.

>>27249910
Once you bought a stock you think is good, how long are you supposed to wait until you decide whether to sell a stock? Do you watch it every day to see what direction it's going? I keep getting anxious and selling whenever it starts falling. Im better at waiting a day or two for the price to go up and then selling at a gain but also lost a lot when some of them fell by a ton and I panic selled. I don't have much capital so it's not gonna be worth for me to wait for years for the price to crawl up insteada just being a wagie unless I do this. It's gotta be so I'll make enough profit to pay for auto fees and rent and all that and it seems like advice from these investors wont do fuckall for that.

>>27249478
Depends who you are talking to, if you are talking to people who wanna become huge actors/singers, or people who pay tens of thousands for an art degree and then end up without a job, then yeah, they need to be realistic

>>27244932
I tried reading it and quickly realized it was little more than a meme. Nobody is really reading that boring shit. It's just something they have on their bookshelf to try and impress people who see it.

>>27246633
I personally can't stand reading long-form books on a computer, which is what .pdfs would necessitate (they're effectively slideshows of static images). /lit/'s sticky can guide you to getting ebook-formatted books, it's how I do most of my reading. I have a Kindle Fire from 2013ish that I still use on a daily basis.

>>27244932
It's a good book on the basics. Obviously quite old with stuff like bonds being touted as an actual alternative to stocks. The main lessons can be summed up by an hour long video.

>Invest in what you know
>Only invest what you can
>Always know what is investing and what is you speculating on something
>Never think the market is rational in the short term
>Focus on safe and slow returns, don't base you main focus on the next trend
>Never forget: 15% a year return is awesome. 10% a year is good.

His main points are solid but just not applicable in today's world.

>>27250643
Lol so it's basically 401(k): The Book.

>>27246332
>hyperinflation in the next several years
lol yeah lots of inflation in japan

>>27245281
You will never be a woman
Black lives don't matter
Trump won
Science shows IQ variation between races

>>27244932
Pic related is the nerd side of value investing. Its a chore to read and even MBAs have a hard time following it but the valuation process is more precious than coca cola at 40 bucks 100 years ago (and 11 stock splits).

>>27250746
Your entire post is the speculation (trader) mentality that the book warns against. And its not like you'll benefit from the answer since you "don't have the time for it" but its pretty much:
You sell a stock once it reaches full value or once it becomes overvalued. A mechanical rule that Graham points out instead is to dump a stock if it hasn't moved for at least 2 YEARS.
Another marker to sell is if there is something MUCH more valuable and promising that you would rather hold than the lowest performing stocks in your folio.

If you want quick profits to get out of the wage cage try reading Al Brooks. That shit is even tougher to read but do your "DD" on it and futures trading

>>27247095
>>27247865
>>27249958

If you're not retiring in the next 20 years, 100% stocks is an option if you can tolerate the volatility. Most triple-A bonds have low or negative yield; why would anyone want to own that? It's a clown market; central bankers will do ANYTHING to prevent another crash and slow recovery (see COVID).

>>27251459
Yeah they pumped the stock market by running the money printers hotter than an Auschwitz oven, which also destroyed any incentive to own bonds. Our dollar is fucked in the long run, never own bonds. Stocks and established crypto (BTC, ETH, LINK, etc) is the way to go

>>27250643
>1) reduce expenses
You didn't read shit retard. The book flatly states in the introduction that it doesnt concern itself with individual money management or "saving" habits of the investor but rather with the funds he is willing to dedicate to investing. Fuck off

>>27250160
>Why didn't you go into utz, or gme, or wkhs?
Circle of competence. I spent a solid year researching everything there is to know about oil so when oil dipped it was easy for me to identify winners who would make a comeback and avoid losers in bad financial positions. I'm not concerned about Biden "killing" keystone because frankly the pipeline isn't needed anymore. Canadian oil is shit and we have plenty of fracking oil anyway. My stocks have been perfectly fine through the election to today.

>bitcoin
Yeah that's not value investing, that's a hedge against inflation like buying gold or other precious metals. It's also been insanely profitable for me over the years so I'm gonna keep doing it and just diversify when value opportunities come up, like with the oil crash. I might go into real estate if that crashes. Just keeping my ear to the ground for now.

>>27249493
What I mean by that is you can analyze a security six ways from Sunday and even hold a seance with the Ben Graham's ghost for a consult but if you buy a good company at a mediocre price, your gains will necessarily be mediocre. Whereas if you wait until something dumb happens and the price dips, like say during an oil crash, you can snap up a good company for very cheap and your gains will be correspondingly large.

Most "value investors" today are so desperate for returns they're throwing away their principles and buying good companies at mediocre prices, which gives them mediocre returns, and makes everyone think value investors are retards. Real Grahamian value investors just sit on the sidelines and wait for good deals, then snap them up.

>>27251365
>Al Brooks
Thanks for the recs senpai. I'll read it all. BTW is it true that technical analysis is all bullshit? I managed to make some profit by looking for obscure news and announcements and then waiting for it to hit mainstream news but lost every time when I tried to judge if the charts will shoot up or down.....

>>27244932
You could have read it for free online. It can probably be summarized in two paragraphs.

You could have invested that $20. You're NGMI.

>>27251459
I didn't say I agreed. Bonds are dogshit now. A lot of the advice in the book seemed outdated to me.

>>27249073
Curious—the Barons book on Finance I bought made it pretty clear that the relationship between risk/reward is pretty well-confirmed in the literature at this point.

>>27251365
>A mechanical rule that Graham points out instead is to dump a stock if it hasn't moved for at least 2 YEARS.
holy hell

>>27252097
Fracking is also banned by biden though. You need canadian to mix with texas (and other) sweet as well. You don't seem to have done enough dd on this, recommend you go read some more.
PMs are not a hedge, they stay flat forever, losing to inflation. TMF or SPACs are hedges against inflation on side cash. Investing is a hedge against inflation.
Bitcoin also isn't a hedge against inflation because it's far too unstable.

What you're describing in the rest of the post isn't value investing but rather swing trading, by the way.

>>27252170
>technical analysis is all bullshit
Yeah pretty much.
Price action isn't. "Reading the tape" isn't either. Brooks actually makes a strong point against "trading the news" or paying attention to the scum on cnbc and otherwise tells you to focus on the chart and learn to read what every candle tells you in the context of the previous price action.
WARNING to you and to anyone interested in the books:
All 3 (4 if you count his first) books show that the editors themselves didn't understand what Brooks was trying to convey so several paragraphs are repetitive and incredibly convoluted. Shits all over the place and some statements don't make sense unless you already have a grasp of what he means.

A "light" and much simplified form of Brook's stuff can instead be found in an old dude's futures trading booklet:
https://priceactiontradingsystem.com/pats-price-action-trading-manual/

Its 80 pages and it helps to know the simpler stuff and the "basics" before trying to decipher Brooks

>>27252853
Only if you take crap like """"""modern"""""" portfolio theory and the efficient market hypotheses as fact. It might not make much sense to some but again, picking securites is a process of eliminiation bottoms up that discards anything with unacceptable risk from the get go.

Gotta go now lads .
Good thread

>>27253019
>Fracking is also banned by biden though.
No, it's not. Fracking on federal land maybe, but not all fracking (how could you even ban that on private property) and certainly not the fracking of the companies I own. For someone throwing around accusations of not doing proper DD, maybe you should shut the fuck up and do your own research.
>You need canadian to mix with texas (and other) sweet as well.
No, you don't need it. It's a nice to have. There's plenty of other shitty oil to mix with sweet so refineries run some marginal amount more efficiently, but it's absolutely not needed. On the other hand, canadian tar sand trash DOES need to be mixed with sweet so that it can be refined at all. Maybe that's where you got confused.
>Bitcoin also isn't a hedge against inflation because it's far too unstable.
Zoom out. Bitcoin goes up over time. Sorry you don't understand DCA and volatility but that's your problem not mine.
>What you're describing in the rest of the post isn't value investing but rather swing trading, by the way.
You don't even know what swing trading is. I'm not replying to your ID anymore, you're criminally stupid and it's a waste of my time to discuss anything with you. You're ngmi.

>>27244932
You could have signed up for Netcoins and got $10 free and started making money instantly:
https://netcoins.app/r?ac=61QOE3