/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>26278913
fugget about it

>>26278974
Bless you.

>>26278913
Oops too bad you're just gonna have to track through them all and write them down
Guess you should have learned your tax obligations before trading :)

Literally just don't pay. Fuck the government. All of your crypto gains got lost in a boating accident.

>>26278913
Koinly can go through CEXs and if you link your ether wallet it might be able to process them too. It's not perfect but should give you a good idea.

>>26278913
Don't pay em, duh

>>26278913
Same position bro, heard good things about coinily. Hope it works otherwise im fudged haha

Koinly shows me what I made and what I owe, but I have no clue how to submit the actual required forms for the IRS because I've never done taxes before. I haven't submitted anything for 2019 either so I already feel fucked as it is.
I haven't made many trades and only made about a couple hundred dollars in profit for 2019 and 2020 but I'm still stressed about this every day. No idea where to proceed. Wish this shit was easier and that I wasn't retarded.

>>26278913
>How the fuck do I do crypto taxes?
>Prepare 1099 tax form as usual
>Have you ever traded or did you start trading in cryptocurrency in the last year
>Yes, No
>Check No
>???
>profit

>>26278913
just grab your ankles and let Uncle Sam stick his wrinkly old dick in your butt, with his low hanging balls smacking against your ass, and his wiry old grey pubes rubbing up against your asshole.

>>26278913
desu the current tax laws dont make sense with crypto
just come up with a cost basis for each "currency" and report it and pay some tax
if they audit you later they can calculate that shit themselves and you can just feign being a retard

Don't listen to the idiots that say don't pay them. You will get flagged by your bank if you deposit anything over 10k(depending on where you live). Talk to an accountant. The first cashout is always the one where you get scammed the hardest but everybodys gotta learn desu

>>26278913
You have two legal choices:
1) create spreadsheets of ALL of your trades and let the spreadsheets calculate your net tax liability, or
2) declare that you had zero basis cost on all trades and pay 28% of your sales price on all trades.

Otherwise, your choice is:
3) sit and wait and hope the IRS doesn't confiscate everything you possess.

>>26278913
>paying taxes to an illegitimate government
Shiggy

>>26278913
do you really have to pay tax for every trade? kek

>>26280223
>The first cashout is always the one where you get scammed the hardest
huh?

>>26280520
>2) declare that you had zero basis cost on all trades and pay 28% of your sales price on all trades.
Jesus Christ no no no, don't fucking do this. The IRS doesn't get your calculations you can guesstimate quite a lot of it and just pay what you think is fair. They only have 7 years to audit you and then you're free as long as you don't do something stupid like >>26279875 and lie on a form to the government outright.

>>26279748
If you're that confused, hire a tax accountant and have him figure it out. Or, since it's just a couple hundred dollars, just do your best and treat it like a learning experience. The IRS won't really care about a small fry like you and the worst thing that can happen is they send you a letter saying they calculated differently than you and they'll ask for either what they think you owe or an explanation of your calculations. For crypto, they don't really know what they're doing so they'll actually listen to your explanations and will consider it.

>>26278913
cointracker.io

I paid 279$ to get them done this year. The more transactions, the more it costs. I had over 1300 transactions in 2020.

You basically just pull the .csv file from etherscan/exchanges and upload it to the platform. It spits out a capital gains summary that you would then upload to whatever you use to file taxes. (I use turbo tax. It's even advertised on there to use it.)

t. Did it last year with no problems from the IRS.

>>26278913
You will need to learn to code. Remember that gas fees and crypto to crypto and CEX fees paid in different coins that the one you are trading. All of that needs to be mapped back to you national currency and if this is not USD you will be wanting to custom code something to normalize all of that + sequence the trades, withdrawals and deposits so that your stacks actually change to reflect your actual holdings.

Going zero cost basis can actually end up being less damning if you did a lot of trading. Especially if it looks like you succeeded and did more than a casual investor would have. That shit will get it declared a profession in most countries and taxed accordingly.

>>26282285
This, crypto is still relatively new and our government is made up of technologically inept boomers. Either it sorts out years after they die or you denounce your citizenship and flee the country to cash out.

>>26278913
unironically just do your best and take a good guess
this is a lesson to stop trading shitcoins like a retard, even if you win you're gonna have to pay 25% because you're certainly not holding them for over a year
as long as you actually try a little bit to file it correctly you probably wont go to jail

>>26278913
Move profits here.

>>26282424
Beautiful, thanks anon.
I’m a complete newfag but I’m doing well and it’s spooky. Dumb question: about how much did you end up owing? (% wise, I guess)
I’ve made a couple dozen grand in profit but don’t have anywhere near 30% of that in my bank account, so I guess I’ll have to cash out to pay taxes (?) Fml

>>26278913
Check out the 1040 self employment from and it gives you guidelines. it sucks but its legit and the last you want is fuck with the irs.

>>26282947
I made 24k, and only cashed out 7. Started out with 15k (already payed taxes on that.) If you made less than 40k and you're single, not sure for married individuals, but if you're single, that a 12% deduction from gains. I owe around 2800-2900 in taxes on my new gains, which is little more than I was expecting (over 12%), but idc, they can have it.

>>26282947
IF it's anything like earned income, IF you made around 30,000, Then the first 9,700 will be taxed at 10%, or in this case, you'll owe 970.

It entirely lays on how that consider that income.

Then the rest of that 30,000, or in this case, 20,700, will be at 12%... or in this case, 2484.

You will then owe in in this example, 3454.
This assumes 0 exemptions, which you will have... to the tune of 12,400 if you're single, which means 12,400 of that isn't paid at all. It's yours.

That would make your new owe in about 2000 bucks.

>>26282497
>or you denounce your citizenship and flee the country to cash out.
This doesn't work, the IRS will still track you down for their tax money and they have extradition treaties in most countries. Renouncing US citizenship doesn't make sense when it's the country with the best gun laws, just build a bunker innawoods or innahills and call it good.

>>26280223
What if..You deposit less than 10k every day or, let's say every week, or every month. Will that work?

>>26283315
its funny if you think about it because millions of third worlders from around the world would give an arm to be here. but some of these guys want to leave for a few grand they owe in taxes kek

>>26283375
Eventually, you'll deposit enough that eyebrows will raise. This is usually how rookie drug dealers are caught.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ez6xH-su2xI

I know it's breaking bad, but this is actually a really good explanation of the process. Am I saying to launder your money? Of course not, I'm just pointing out the government will find out that tactic. It's best to just not fuck around and pay up.

10% for anything over 12,400 but below 22,400, 12% for the next 20,000 you earn over the first 22,400. Don't worry about paying in if you make less than 12,400, that's in exemptions. If you make any more profit over 44,400, then just hire someone to do your taxes. You obviously make enough and it just saves you a huge fucking headache.

>>26283498
Nah, it makes sense. Taxation is theft. Just like how third worlders want to flee their oppressive governments, Americans want to flee their own oppressive governments. If crypto had existed 200 years ago there'd be no taxes on it at all unless you exported or imported it. The US government has completely lost its way.

>>26278913
you guys are paying taxes?

>>26284288
No, we have a daily tax thread where people scare newfags into thinking the government will audit them for not reporting their noob gains

>>26278913
If possible move to a country that doesn't tax crypto to crypto transaction. If not hire an accountant

>>26284367
It's not a bad thing to want to pay in, but in most cases, you're on the nose here. You generally will not make enough to draw attention. It's not even worth reporting if it's less than your exemption, which is 12,000. If you make more than that in crypto, which I'd be surprised if like more than 80% of people here do that legit and aren't just lying about it.The IRS does not fucking care if you made like 5,000 bucks off a day trade, and it doesn't care if you made like 2600 trading your sliver of a bit coin to some douche-bag in Russia.

>>26284367
Lol even I'm getting nervous and I'm pretty sure all I have are noob losses :)

>>26279748
If you only made a few hundred dollars just forget about it. You know the standard deduction is lile $25,000 right? You probably wouldn't owe anything even if you tracked and accounted for every transaction. The IRS isn't going to come after you for $40 in crypto tax.

>>26284771
this is how i feel, i'm not sure exactly how much i cashed out but it's probably less than $5000 via coinbase pro. i'll pay my taxes when i make it off link but right now it's a hassle and i don't see the point in doing it now. i really dont think its worth my or the irs' time to chase me over such little money but i'm worried of the repercussions

>>26278913
if you're making any actual money with crypto just hire an accountant to take care of all of it.

>>26284972
Depends.

Single is 12,400.
Head of household is 18,600
Married jointly is actually around 25,000 (24,800) but you have to be married.

If you're legally blind, you actually get an extra 1000 or so for the deductions. It's really fucking weird that is the case, but it's the truth.

>>26278913
Don't use etherscan, use ethplorer. You can export to CSV with the value of each transaction, including token transfer which Etherscan doesn't fucking do.

>(((tax authority)))
Domestic terrorists

>>26285153
Accountant an hero rates up %200

>>26285132
If you have another source of income, then find out what your total owed is at the end of the year, and then pay in 500 more if you somehow made over your deduction... Somehow.

If you are making a substantial amount, that's entirely up to you. For general note, you're supposed to report gambling wins as well, but fucking nobody does it and the IRS doesn't go seeking it out.

>>26283531
Will I be ok if I just submit the coinbase forms and be done with it? As far as I know coinbase makes it easy.

>>26285173
I don't know why, I thought it was 25k single and 50k married. My bad.

>>26285445
Don't feel bad, the system is a fucking wreck and not even professionals even know about how it works anymore. It's like that on purpose too. I desperately wish we could do what the Japs do and just have no say in the tax. You get what you owe at the end of the year, you have no say in it. In all honesty, it's not your responsibility to pay in, and if the government cared so much, they should hire someone to do it for you.

>>26285357
Entirely up to you, but as I said, if it isn't over 12,400, you do not need to worry. Logic there is even if SOMEHOW the tax man looks at you and says, THAT MAN JUST DEPOSITED 12,000 BUCKS AND HE DOESN'T HAVE A JOB, but you do not make more than your exemptions, then they still get no money from seeking you out. It's figuratively, literally, and financially not worth it, so they don't seek you.

>>26285267
yeah im poor i made 27k this year and my refund is actually 1100 without entering any crypto transactions

>>26285741
Then you owe in 600 if you care enough to do it.

For what it's worth, if the IRS finds out you owe in cash, and asks about it, they GENERALLY are ok with you if you pay up promptly or have a good explanation. They are not going to jail you for chump change. They just want their money. Now, if you get into the upper thousands, then you're going to get the scary side of the IRS. No one here is going to ever get that high except for a few choice people, and when you get enough money to do that, you can hire a tax agent and not worry about it.

what if I convert everything to e.g. LINK and say I bought X amount when it was worth Y, and only report that, and the amount of fiat I started with?

>>26286170
If you lie and they catch you they'll tear you a new asshole.

>>26284288
>you guys are paying taxes?
Of course not. We buy high and sell low here. Can't pay tax if you don't make any money.

>>26286170
Look, this isn't too difficult.

As a general rule, take the FINAL amount of what you made and add it to what your job is. Fuck off, I know you have one, you aren't doing this solely for living, only like a couple hundred lucky fucks here are doing that.

Is it under 12,400? Fuck off.
Is it OVER 12,400 but UNDER 21,700? Take that number, subtract 12,400, and divide by 10. Give the IRS that much.
Is it OVER 21,700, but under 43,700? Take the number and subtract 9700 from it. Add 970 to what you owe the IRS. Now take the number, divide it by 100 and then multiply the result by 12. You owe that much + 970.
Is it over 43,700? Pay a tax agent, you're probably are gonna fuck something up.

>>26284367
I’m not worried about the tax on my noob gains, I’m worried about the questions when I try to cash out. I doubt the IRS & exchanges will just gloss over how someone made a shit ton of money and is only trying to pay taxes on the off ramp...

>>26286499
That's the beauty of the blockchain anon, you can trace literally every transaction back to when you started. Or rather, your lawyer can when they sue you or charge you with something. Don't overthink it too much, they understand people make money on crypto.

What I meant with >>26286170 is,
suppose I start with $5K
I trade several different shitcoins on both cexes and dexes and I end up with $30K
Instead of reporting every single trade, if I were to convert those 30K to LINK and then sell to fiat, could I report just that, as if I held LINK the whole time and sold it just now? Considering the final profit is the same.

>>26286680
Yes you can just report it like that, but you should take care to keep everything split up by tax year. Just keep in mind that because your transactions are less than a year and a day, you'll be paying short term capital gains tax which is the same as income tax.

>>26286680
Hire a tax agent, I've explained this like 6 times now.

>>26285213
Quite literally a legalised mafia. Right down to the hired muscle/thugs (police).

>>26280223
>The first cashout is always the one where you get scammed the hardest but everybodys gotta learn desu

what does that mean?

So if Ive never cashed out or bought low and sold high, i have nothing to worry about? I've only bought shit on coinbase like eth or btc, sent to different exchanges and stacked different coins after exchanging either of those for the one I wanted. I have no basis for reporting anything correct?

>>26286881
I believe he means the first cashout is when you learn what trading behaviors severely increase tax owed and you later learn how to trade in a way that minimizes tax owed.

>>26287029
If you buy 1 BTC at 20 ETH, then sell your BTC for 30 ETH one month later, you have 10 ETH of capital gains to report.

Just getting into crypto and wanted to ask. Does the IRS actually expect a retarded list of transactions or just the usual total profit approximation? I read that a trade is technically considered a taxable event, but I only ever "trade" by directly buying ETH off of an exchange and immediately swapping for an equivalent value of shitcoins. The way I'm reading it, they'd only care about trades if, say, I made a 100x return off said shitcoin and then swapped back to ETH. In this scenario, I just need to keep track of however much money the ETH I traded in for was worth at that particular time right?
>>26287029
No, apparently the IRS views trading/swapping as you selling the first asset for cash, and then immediately buying the new asset. They want capital gains from this imaginary sale of the first asset.

>>26278913
Just surrender and go to jail.

>>26287187
I clearly stated that I've never bought low and sold high. I buy Eth or Btc at 12pm, at 12:01pm I send the full amount to a different exchange. at 12:02pm it arrives. at 12:03pm I buy a different asset indefinitely. That's all I've ever done. how much tax can really be incurred in the 5-10 minutes it takes to do this?

>>26287187
It's a bit more complicated than that though because you have to convert everything to fiat at the time of trades to figure out what the laws say you owe. If BTC and ETH were in the middle of crashing you might actually have a paper loss.

>>26287190
So if I bought $100 of ETH at $250.00 and ten minutes later I buy say REN on a different exchange after transferring the ETH and the price is $255 when I change ETH to REN, I owe $5? sounds pretty jewish

>>26278913
its pretty simple convert it all to what it cost you, convert to what you sold it for, and give them their ℅. And write down your calculation and save it in case they try to fuck you later.

>>26287190
It's the latter. If they say nuh uh you owe this much then you can come back with the list of transactions and an explanation of how the math works. If you can't come to an agreement one of you sues the other and it gets figured out in court.

>>26287388
No, you made 5 bucks in profit, and you owe .50 cents.

>>26287388
well actually it'd be less than that. $2. This is so fucking retarded

>>26278913
>live in a country where crypto taxation is not a thing, and even if it was the government is too inept to be able to have any records
>?????????
>PROFIT

>>26287190
you're only taxed on the capital gains son, not the entire asset

>>26284972
They will

>>26278913
dont pay it. them trying to tax crypto is the most illegal shit I've ever heard. If I exchange a bunch of money for euros, and the value of the euro goes up/ dollar drops they think I owe that "profit" to the government. go fuck yourselves. they cheated the election anyways.

>>26278913
Most all your keys in a boating accident fren

>>26278913
>buy link
>cost basis
1k eoy
>free write offs forever

>>26280112
This is exactly what I've been doing anon. Nobody knows the rules yet and they're changing throughout the year so a sob story goes a long way while keeping 90% of my gains due to guesstimating. As long as you're paying something they're happy.

A couple questions. How much do you actually have to profit to have to report it?

Also,if you never turn the crypto into usd and withdraw it, do you have to pay anything? Technically I didn't make money if I never withdraw it from the exchange app.

>>26278913
bitcoin.tax

>>26278913
You never heard of microsoft excel faggot?

>>26282424
same here, super fucking easy. integration to tubo tax is awesome. taxation is still theft.

How many transactions we talking?

Like even a couple thousand of buy sell transactions shouldn’t take more than an hour to ten key in to figure your net gain/loss less fees.

>>26278913
Hodlrs win every time. I keep a spreadsheet of every purchase, but have never made a trade. When I cash out I will do it all at once per holding and have very simple calculations for what I owe. Just use the Excel sum function to determine my total investment and subtract it from my total sale value to determine my long term capital gains.

>>26288303
very based

I just submit the Normiebase and Robinhood forms on Turbotax like a good little goyim. If they have a problem they can fucking take it up with Turbotax.

>h-hopefully that's alright Mr. Taxman, I didn't mean to make you angry

>>26278913
>tax
>crypto

dude do you even understand the point of crypto?

>>26278913
Just guess. I'm dead serious. Take an honest, good faith effort to calculate how much money you have at the end of 2020 that you didn't have at the beginning. Report that as income. Pay the taxes on that income. You're done. No one gives a shit about a thousand little trades, least of all the IRS. They just want you to pay (at least close to) the amount you owe.

>>26288457
Well depending on where you trade and what country you live in and if you did kyc shit, they’ll get you.

Also
>dont work
>claim liquidate 40k each year
>tax free
Ezpz

>>26288646
Yup. Believe it or not, its ran by underpaid, very VERY tired people, who just want to do their job and go the fuck home like anyone else. They don't get paid enough to care about a 100 buck deficit. Now, if you owe literal thousands (read, 100,000 in profit or so) and decide to not pay it, you've pissed them off.

If I buy on a non-kyc exchange like bybit, and trade for years and build a juicy amount of eth and btc,

cant I just say I bought it all like 5 years ago, i cant remeber where, and heres the capital gains tax on it all?

>>26279020
>obligations