/biz/ - Business & Finance

Us whales are calling it the white swan. Now delete.

>>25763460
Delusional. The tether would be worthless. How can something that is worthless increase the price of something else??

>>25763419
The Report Is based on assumptions

>>25763520
Correct assumptions based on prior statements and a public ledger

>What is USDC?

A hilariously bad crash is coming. Prepare for pink Wojacks

>>25763664
People will be left holding the bag of a worthless coin that accounts for one third of all crypto volume. Also, USDC has a limited supply (must be minted). How can everyone pile into USDC at once? How can I exchange worthless tether for $1 USDC?

>>25763690
usdc is going to moon to $100

>>25763419
>bulls say its going to skyrocket
>bears say its going to crash

So looks like its not going to have any effect at all

>>25763738
Based retard. This is impossible. USDC would have to halt trading to address the problem. They can’t back that much money at once so Bitcoin will shed thousands of dollars because the usd liquidity and backing was never actually converted to the crypto markets

>>25763772
Bulls are delusional. Bears understand that money never really entered the market.

>>25763419
I use USDM so.... there goes that Narrative

i dont like the amount of pink ids in this thread desu

>>25763803
Again, a stable coin has to be backed by USD... the stablecoin market supports the Bitcoin volume. It will cause a liquidity crisis between all pairs involved between tether and Bitcoin regardless of your stablecoin of choice.

If tether is worthless... then value will be transferred to something else. Likes usd it will be a relic of an abundand period. BTC will moon, or dump for a short period but this will take it to 100k.

Shills never selling.

>>25763419
he is right

>>25763844
Retard. Bitcoin will crash simultaneously because the USDT/BTC pair will be fubar. Smart money would move to an exchange that offers fiat pairs. Jesus fuck you are stupid

>>25763419
who (cares about newfag brainlets)?

>>25763888
I just feel bad about letting this collapse happen to them. Shouldn’t we save them?

>>25763795
So you're saying it's BTC is going to lose it's value because a bunch of people bought it with essentially counterfeit money

top kek

>>25763945
That is literally what I’m saying. The USDT/BTC value is inflated because USDT IS WORTHLESS. The affinity scam has been equating USDT with USD all along. BTC/USD will get wrecked but BTC/USDT will moon because USDT is worthless.

>>25763999
I don't see how this fucks over BTC since there are still legitimate buyers paying the current trading price. All this does is screw over the exchanges

i didnt vote for him

>>25764138
And then they have to liquidate their assets (crypto) to cover losses. They will literally dump on you.

is my DAI safe

There's 0% chance that anything happens on the 15th. If all the baseless assumptions about scamming were correct still nothing would happen on the 15th.

>>25763518
>being this new

>>25764259
>>25764294
Found the fucktards who bought the top.

>>25763775
Wrong, if USDC is worth more than 1$, that means the USDC treasury actually gets a great deal. The opposite effect of what you described. They only offer to buy USDC at 1$, not 40$. No one is going to cash out their USDC at 40$ a piece because that's not part of the contract.

>>25764404
The backing doesn’t change. Demand doesn’t matter with stable coins. That is why they are stable coins

>>25764152
Why when they can just hodl and enjoy the gains

Its funny how all fud has to have a certain date so everyone panic sells

>ooh spooky jan 15th

>>25763419
that's why BTC 5x'd in 2019, you deluded beartard.

>>25764521
thats just when they have to turn in their documents

>>25763928
I don’t care about newbies, I don’t care about tether scam, the only thing I want to know - will BTC do the final pump to 45-50k before the Jan 15th when tether gets their ass beat?

>>25764329
My calculated average buy in price per Bitcoin is well under $100 even though I bought most of it for $6k.
>how is that possible
You'll never know. There are those who know and those who fall for tether fud.

>>25764588
Lol you leverage traded at tether pumps

>>25764521
honestly you don't even need FUD in crypto, knowing 2016 can happen again at literally any moment is all it takes to scare off most normies. Face it, we're all schizos trying to get rich and dump on boomers in the end

>>25763518
im confused, i read the 15th is just the deadline for tether to submit documents proving they didn’t prop up bitfinex with unbacked funny money in 2019. is that it? so if they don’t submit any documents by then, it just means they did something shady, and are probably engaging in an illegal (?) version of fractional reserve lending, right?

i would think that might cause tether to be worth a lot less than a dollar pretty quickly, but i cant see it crashing to zero because people would just buy the tether dip in hopes that tether fixes their shit and maybe transitions to something a bit more transparent. the value of tether wouldn’t pull a YAM though.

i wonder exactly what might haopen though... in the short term i think he’s right, people would sell their tether for btc (and other cryptos), driving up the price of everything for a little while. then a small dump as more and more people find out the tether news and lose some faith in crypto. then biz and institutions will buy the dip because tether is just one crypto and even if they were propping up the price that doesnt change the fact that institutions have been buying in too.

and who would be scooping up the most free tether? tether the company would of course. they probably hold a massive amount of USD and any USDT they buy back at 20c on the dollar is USDT they no longer have to be able to redeem for $1 per tether. once people realize this tether would spike to nearly a dollar again, and eventually tether would complete a REAL audit and be at $1 again.

tether is a scam, but i think when the jig is up they can just go legit without too much damage to themselves or the market.

>>25764629
Not a single leveraged trade or faith in crypto needed.

>>25764710
Then how

>>25763559
Yes we will make it! We will be rich in XRP!

>>25764680
well just stay out of usdt till 15th i'm pretty damn confident in btc.

>>25764680
it's happened in the past already, tether going off the peg resulted in btc spiking. bitfinex also had a btc premium, wherein everyone trading there rushed into btc for safety. Same thing happened on quadrigacx, there was a btc premium because of illiquidity problems before the exit scam.
short term spike, and most likely long term drawdown.

>>25764588
private trading bitcoins with other people for $100 each when the actual price was $6,000. or scamming people and only actually purchasing legitimately a small amount of BTC with your own money at $6k.

>>25764761
The current price of Bitcoin is derived from a basket of other currencies, primarily tether. If tether goes, the value of Bitcoin could go down by as much as 33% to 50% in a flash crash.

but will buttcorn go up again one more time before the exitscam?

>>25764907
Maybe, but only because the crypto equivalent of a Nigerian central bank that is using a USD affinity scam turned the printer on for one last ride into the sunset.

>>25764588
> My calculated average buy in price per Bitcoin is well under $100 even though I bought most of it for $6k.
>how is that possible
>You'll never know
Uhhh, by buying it years ago? Wtf else could you possibly be implying?

>>25764629
So most of us are hosed but sounds like >>25764588 got of pretty good? Borrowed a bunch of tether, traded it for BTC, tether craters while BTC drops but not to $100, "W-we need you to pay back your l-loan," >>25764588 Donald Duck flips them half a coin and they're square.

Am I missing something? I bet I'm missing something.

>>25764680
they're printing tether like crazy to pump BTC to ATH, and they'll sell into fiat so now they have more than enough USD to back their USDT.

>>25764813
>The current price of Bitcoin is derived from a basket of other currencies, primarily tether.
retarded shit m8 it's just the usd devaluing against bitcoin that's all.

>>25764786
i wonder how long the drawdown would last when "Gibs Part III, the Gibbening" is enacted a week later.

>>25764813
> The current price of Bitcoin is derived from a basket of other currencies, primarily tether

What in the actual fuck are you talking about?

>>25765040
he must be one of those retards that think money is flowing in to bitcoin somehow...

>>25765040
>>25765023
When you buy something, it is considered price discovery. The price is backed by your trade. If everyone else makes that trade, the price is backed by everyone else’s trade and it becomes that price. You /biz/nessmen don’t understand economics at all.

>>25763419
We know.

This is why you should Just Use Kleros.

>>25765106
>The price is backed by your trade.
you have no clue what value is.

>>25765142
Trades don’t have to be strictly currencies retard but they are the backbone of determining value in relation to other forms of value. If I work for one hour at US minimum wage do I get 1 BTC or 7.25 USD in BTC?

>>25764999
keep repeating these easy steps until no more dollars are coming in

>>25764735
>>25764810
>>25764938
>>25764953
>the state of newfag tether fudders
The calculated price is if I divide the amount I used to buy in with the amount of bitcoin I have and have cashed out.
When making money from arbitrage you don't care about fundamentals just exploiting the price difference. To do that on a tether trading pair you need tether.
>why is there so much demand for the most common token to trade against
That's a dumb question. 20 billion total seems low. So what's the evidence for the scam pump except that it feels wrong to people with no experience of the markets? The actual documented regulatory issues have nothing to do with this narrative you're pushing. So where does it come from except your imagination?

>>25765191
like i said clueless
stop talking

>>25765106
kekked, nice b8

>>25765071
Sometimes I wonder if people even know how trading works. Tether isn't somehow propping up BTC, the reason a bitcoin is worth $40k is because people have deemed for whatever reason collectively that they're willing to pay up to $40k for a bitcoin. It doesn't matter if the value is in tether, USD, or chunks of gold as long as it's worth $40k.

People who have BTC aren't going to sell all of their BTC because some irrelevant stablecoin is losing value. Tether holders are the only ones that will get fucked, and if BTC DOES somehow dip from it, I guarantee people will just be buying it using other stable coins or FIAT.

>>25765207
I guess you are a newfag that bought after we broke last run’s ATH.

>>25765242
you are just embarrassing yourself at this point m8 shooting blindly in the dark, take a nap

>>25765208
>what is traded volume and price supports/resistances
You are all retards that will be surprised by the wojacks next week

>>25765202
holy shit take your meds, what does that post I made have to do with tether in any way shape or form? we were guessing how you wound up "average btc buy at $100 and most of it at $6,000" at the same time

>>25765228
>>25765258
The problem is that the “USD” demand for Bitcoin is inflated by the presence of fraudulent tether. The demand is inflated. I will take a peaceful nap knowing that the sell off next week will not affect me.

>>25765228
yeah value is extremely subjective to some people bitcoin is worth $4k or $0 for others it's worth $100k or more.
value is not based on some retarded shitcoin like tether or the usd.
value is based on need and desire.
while you can almost fool yourself thinking there is objective valuation based on large enough statistical sampling it's a convenient lie you tell yourself.

>>25765301
How do you know that the tether being printed is actually fraudulent and not simply a consequence of new players entering the market? In order for it to remain a stablecoin if more people enter crypto they'll have to create more tokens or it would no longer be stable at $1

>>25763419
how do you envision "tether imploding" looks like exactly?

>Wee woo, Tether is now worthless funny money just like it always was!

>Uh oh, I'm now going to panic sell my BTC and ETH for... USDC? DAI?

>>25765365
Because they already fucking said so. We will find out on January 15th how bad it is.

>>25765301
won't affect me either i have been sitting on my corn for years. i haven't sold at $3k i won't sell at $30k. i know exactly at what price i'm willing to sell and we are nowhere near.

>>25765299
And I explained how you blithering retard. I spoonfed you things you should already be well aware of years ago unless you're as new as you seem in which case you shouldn't be posting at all.
Like I said, those who know already knew how I most likely made that kind of money and also know that the tether fud is horseshit.

Anyways if tether could in fact "implode" it would be the greatest black swan buying opportunity of all time maybe even better than March 2020

>>25765365
that's exactly the uncertainty in the market right now. nobody except the core finex team knows if it's just FUD or actually real. they've been shit out of luck before when their bank exit scammed them... an audit or some clarity on tether would give some confidence to the neets and incels on this board

>>25765365
actually tether is kept stable not by supply but by arbitrage as it is traded/redeemed against usd.

>>25765228
>Tether isn't somehow propping up BTC

Well, it is in a way if tether isn't actually backed by real USD

Imagine that they decided suddenly to print 500 billion tether and then used it to buy Bitcoin. What would happen to the price of Bitcoin and would you consider that the real price?

>>25765387
I haven't been paying attention to the tether fud because historically it's been bullish but let's assume that's true. How is that going to affect BTC itself in any way? It will make tether worthless assuming it's base functionality (the idea that you can trade 1 tether for $1) is compromised. But the price of tether and the price of a bitcoin are mutually exclusive. Tether going to 0 won't do anything to bitcoin itself, sure tether holders will get fucked in the ass or anyone that trades any coin to tether, but I would think this would actually increase demand for crypto across the board as people are trying to leave the sinking ship trading their tether for BTC.

>>25765529
>How is that going to affect BTC itself in any way?
well i personally exited all my usdt into bitcoin just to be sure. and i wouldn't have touched ""usdt"" at all if phemex wasn't such a shithole and let me trade btc/usd on spot.

>tether holders buy btc or other crypto or other stable coin before 15
>at 15 it implodes
>price of btc already risen, tether holders get fucked
so that's it? Why would btc holders care that tether pumped price?

>>25765524
Yes the market cap of BTC would inflate by $500 billion, but my point is that the value lost isn't the BTC value but the value of tether. They bought 500 billion worth of bitcoin, but the $500 billion lost won't be the bitcoin value, it's going to be the value of the $500 billion in tether distributed to people who traded it for their bitcoins. Unless they sell the bitcoins they bought dumping them on the market the supply of BTC is still withheld to the same levels as when they inserted the $500B

>>25765202
I have no idea why I'm a 'tether fudder'. I'm asking how exactly you're claiming you bought your bitcoin at $100 if not by buying it back when it was that price.

I'd you made profits with arbitrage then bought bitcoin with those profits, you still paid whatever current market price was for your BTC

>>25765633
that's basically the entire point I've been trying to make. I doubt very seriously if tether was wiped off the face of the earth there would be any more than a 10% dip as a result from people fearing nothing, which promptly will be bought up by whales.

>>25765593
I've always avoided stablecoins myself seeing as tax laws here in burgerland treat crypto-crypto the same so all of my transactions are in FIAT. But at the end of the day I only measure my wealth in crypto anyway, it's the future after all. FIAT for me is a tool meant to gather more crypto from panicking normalfags. I see though if you use leverage and exchanges that don't have a USD pair how that would require stablecoins, I didn't consider that before. lack of pairings is one of the things I hate about a lot of exchanges, still waiting on a link/btc pairing on goybase pro

>>25765422
Nigger you're missing the point, which is that your posts are so incomprehensible that nobody knew what you were talking about

i personally see bitcoin "price discovery" as follows: the price of btc is the lowest price where at some people who actually own bitcoin are willing to part with it.
and as it gets bought the amount of people willing to part with it at that price point decrease and disappear.
"tether" on exchanges is no different from "usd" or "usdc" on exchanges. just a number shown to you on a website really.

>>25765796
the worst thing about coinbase is the fees and the absolutely ridiculously shit user interface/trading platform. even phemex is crap compared to bitmex.

>>25765387
>We will find out on January 15th how bad it is.
There will be no relevant news that date. The injunction that bars tether from loaning to finex expires which has nothing to do with anything the tether fudders are saying.
They have been cooperating so most likely no injunction is needed anymore and the data is being analyzed by the regulators. We have no idea when they finish that process or what the result will be.
https://iapps.courts.state.ny.us/nyscef/ViewDocument?docIndex=2AsYgvjJAsSdalpfkInbHA==
>>25765765
I explained to you what I meant by calculated price so what's the issue retard? Why can't you grasp the simplest concepts? I put a few hundred dollars into a system I made and it spit out tens of Bitcoins. What's the effective price for me?
>>25765915
Incomprehensible to retards worried about tether fud.

>>25763419
It will explode but not bc of tether. It will be whales short squeezing all the midwits trying to game the market

>>25763419
$Btc's supply cap is untenable

Find out what they don't want you to know:
https://www.cs.princeton.edu/~arvindn/publications/mining_CCS.pdf

Only the true Satoshi coin, Bitcoin SV, will last. Institutions know this, which is why it is pumping. Not because of tether.

>>25766037
I mean if you want to use gay rhetoric, then sure. You have never purchased a bitcoin for the market price of $100 though.

If I'm playing $5 blackjack and win a bunch of chips, then put one down to play another hand how much did I pay to play that hand of blackjack? You autistic retard...

>>25766612
>You have never purchased a bitcoin for the market price of $100 though.
And I was explicit that I didn't. So what compelled you to make these most inane posts imaginable? What the fuck is wrong with your brain?

>>25766965
You poor kid. You spend alot of time alone, eh? Maybe take a nice walk or something...

>>25765268
wow this conversation is still going on?
>traded volume
yes i know what tradING volume is
>supports and resistances
nigga you throwing out TA terms when you dont even understand basic ebay level trading economics. tether will never go to zero as long as someone is willing to pay for it. tether the company can do things to at least APPEAR like they can redeem usd for usdt (which they probably can because they hold their assets in usd not usdt). as long as tether looks like it will PROBABLY be able to show they can redeem in the future, some investors will always be buying up cheap tether, including tether themselves, AND the SEC now that i think about it.

>>25766506
>started around 0.02
>now 0.007
>institutions
>pumping
rofl

>>25763559
it's not real yet and only a speculative assumption. like I could avoid al this shit right now and just go into things like sfx that have their own mainnet and own separate trading pairs. it would certainly protect people from this

>>25767043
Maybe don't be a braindead retard or something.

>>25764172
no. mkr will be under collateralized if the ammagandon is happening

>>25767233
Bro you are hands down the most schitzo fucking retard I have ever had the pleasure of reading on this Mongolian basket weaving board

>>25765524
if they eat thru the order book, and there is no retard like OP who is panic selling, then yes, whatever the price post 500 billion transaction still hold valid, because no one is willing to sell for less than that

>>25767446
I take that as a complement from you subhuman reddit niggers. How schizo my posts are have nothing to do with how right they are and how fucking braindead you have to be to take this latest tether fud seriously, especially the date.

>>25767641
I am not even from reddit you double digit iq mong I did visit r/newfoundlands a couple of times before I bought my newfie puppy though but have not been back since anyway bro I am just still trying to process your initial claims here you made stating you put a couple hundred dollar bills in a machine and got 10's of bitcoins but your average buy in is $6,000 I truly want you to tell me how to do this anon where can I go put a couple blue Benjamin's in a machine and have 10s of bitcoins ?

>>25763419
this is /ourking/

>>25768069
You're a reddit nigger wherever you're from. I notice you focus on the reddit part and not the nigger part which has certain implications.
If I only put a hundred dollars into it ever but now have ten bitcoins what's effectively the price I paid for each bitcoin?
To make the magic arbitrage machine you have to be a wizard.

>>25768262
Being called a reddit fag is more offensive then being called a nigger imo but do niggers even browse /biz/? I am just an irish/scot american anon not a negro I am just confused because you said your avg buy in was around 6k but youre making it sound like this machine sells you $10 btc? Please advise where I can purchase it would change my life and generations under me please help anon

>>25768409
The wizard council would be mad if I told you all the secrets and you wouldn't understand them anyway as a reddit nigger. I already gave enough hints.

>>25768569
So you're using some bots to work arbitrage trades. Give us an exchange to exploit or something cool at least faggot

What if Teather is playing 4D chess?

>>25763518

>>25764329
crypto has no top
because fiat has no bottom.

>>25764680
if they don't provide evidence the prosecuters and judge and jury will be allowed to just assume what the prosecuter is aserting is true. defense is not able to produce == admission of guilt.

>>25765202
wow. then my "calculated buy in price per coin" is like -10k.

>>25763419
If Tether were to implode, the ones manipulating Tether would exit scam. Everyone withdrawing BTC would cause some exchanges to exit scam. I'd guess all of crypto would be impacted heavily.

Eventually crypto might recover, but it'd probably have a similar effect to the 2018 crash

>>25763419
Richard Heart shares the same opinion.

>>25769782
No you're a fucking retard that should never post about anything again. What compels you? Why do you just say shit you don't have the slightest clue about?
>>25769825
It triggers me pretty hard that the world is full of retards like you. You can't even grasp the simplest arithmetic or why the actual money I put into it is more important to me than the market price at the time. For this post to be true someone would have had to pay you for the privilege of taking his bitcoins.

>>25763419
Well he is completely right. But i give him another layer: it's happening right now. Our "golden bull run" is indeed chinks russian and iran trying to buy asap with tether btc as long as they still can have usd exposure through usdt. There are no other ways in these countries, btc is prohibited (and tether actually also). The buying pressure completely evaporates when tether is down (which no honest cryptofags really discuss).

>>25764761
That would be one of the most retarded ideas ever. Read >>25770663

>>25770046
You're an absolute mongrel. Leave this board.

>>25770663
One layer of it is: miners need to sell. Just to break even, they need to dump a hundred million usd of btc a day: more than that to turn a profit. If the buying pressure matches this, all is well and good: but when it doesn’t, we are all dead in the water.

>>25770663
>more speculation based on nothing presented as absolute facts
>>25770792
The same applies to you as all the other retards even though you're the first one to present anything close to a coherent thought. Why are you making claims about shit you don't have the slightest clue about? What's the reason? Just pure mindless programming?

>>25769718
couldnt have said it better

When Tether 'implodes', it's gonna have to sell its assets and clear its balance sheet. Bitcoin will plummet to $20k.
This looks obvious to me.

>>25770881
Use google retard. The mechanism how tether is used as chink money laundering is well documented. Even the insane volumes can be found without making assumptions. Now use a bit of common sense: You're a chink either sitting on usdt or knowing usdt may soon be down, which was your only chance to get usd or btc exposure and fleeing your worthless state inflated yuan. What will happen?

>>25771075
>>25769718
Which means tether has no bottom ;)

>>25770879
$5 million is mined daily at these prices. Around $240 million worth of gold is mined daily. These made up foreigners are apparently looking for every way available to convert fiat to btc and that's a bad thing for btc for some reason.
>>25771097
>money laundering
Has nothing to do with any claims about usdt losing any value in the future.
>knowing usdt may soon be down
>which was your only chance to get usd or btc exposure
>no assumptions
You decided what you wanted to find beforehand and then made up an example to fit what you already decided was true. Great job. You're confirmed retarded. You'll fall for anything. If someone spends enough effort they can convince you of literally anything.

>>25764521
You mean 2018?...

>>25771171
You don't possess common sense. That's your problem. A first start into the topic for you: https://decrypt.co/32041/chinese-investors-secretly-buying-bitcoin-helped-fuel-tethers-5-billion-surge
This is just to gain an insight what lever usdt is having and that most of the money is coming from chinks and not "muh institutions fomoig". The future will shown the mechanisms of this, but saying i based this on feelings is wrong. Now forget it all quick, do not engage your smoothbrain, keep hodling and buying.

>>25771133
except tether is a security..

>>25764999
Who is "they"?

>>25763419
for fucks sake retards read the lawsuit

This is why they are being delisted.
Its likely true, but the whale behind it is pissed as hell and can pull strings.

https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysd.524076/gov.uscourts.nysd.524076.154.0.pdf

>>25771720
nevermind am tard myself

>>25763839
Tether is whats used to prop up the value of BTC. If theres no new tether being printed, then actual fiat will have to pour into the BTC market to keep it LIQUID.

>>25763419
We need every shitcoin to be backed by BTC, only then will we realize 1 BTC = 1 BTC dream.
I hope tether dies and all stablecoins are banned.
I’m willing to take a 90% hit on my portfolio if it does happen, because I know for a fact that Bitcoin will bounce back, stronger.

>>25771466
>You don't possess common sense
You don't have any kind of sense. I operated based on the assumption that much of the demand is from China for years. The 2017 bubble coincided with a real estate bubble fueled by chinks.
None of this has anything to do with whether tether will lose value in the future which it won't any time soon and definitely not on the 15th.
The article you linked is pointing to the opposite conclusion, it's telling you the demand is from real chinks not made up by tether as is claimed.