/biz/ - Business & Finance

I've been fearing this. It's all so tiresome. They don't want you to win.

You think that even democrats in the house or senate would be in favor of this? Are you retarded? They are all millionaires who heavily rely on capital gains tax since they have all their money on VTSAX.

For those earning over $1 million yes, I’m a wager so that doesn’t affect me.

senate isn't turning blue

>>25579454
This. As much as I feel bad for all them rich anons, it will probably never affect me.

>>25579349
you can cash out 999k per year under the old 15-20% tax rate though

>>25579454
Many people on here have over $1M in crypto to cash out and we're pissed about it.

I finally made it after struggling for years and you're gonna try to make me give you 40% of it? Fuck you.

>drive
>get taxed
>own a home
>get taxed
>buy something from the store
>get taxed
>earn money
>get taxed
>If you don't agree with this liberals will call you a selfish monster and men with guns will come after you threatening your freedom

Funny how America was pretty much founded on the basis of being unfairly taxed and look where we are.

>>25579563
Maybe cash out $500k, then wait a year and cash out another $500k. Is it that hard? Seems like this would only affect people trying to cash out $1M - $10M in a single year.

>>25579499

*dominions your votes*

Nothing personnel, voter

>>25579349
hold for longer than 1year 1 day and get that sweet 20% long term tax instead of 40% cuck

Meanwhile, Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs only ask 20% of my gains for bongland. God bless the queen.

>>25579611
Who knows where that other $500k will be in crypto market after a year.

>>25579349
https://
discord
.gg/mKRm3py9
join my discord and lets discuss it

how much money do i need to get monaco citizenship?

>>25579349
4% rule

never pay taxes ever

>>25579589
Just wait till you find out how the worlds governments will recoup economic losses.. look at what Britain is doing in 2023...

>>25579611
I'm going to be cashing out around $2.5 million as ETH nears $10k, if I wait years then it would have already crashed 90% and entered into 4 more years of bear by the time I'm done. That's not going to work for me. Fuck that.

>>25579646
America used to be a tax haven for the colonists and businesses , 250 years later the cabal in charge of America are the extracting more wealth from its citizens than both British empire could have ever dreamed of.

>>25579737
>>25579611
This. I finally make it and this fucking faggot ruins it? Fuck that. I’d rather give up my citizenship then live in this fucking clownworld one more second if this shit passes. Another good man leaving America.

Do you have to answer the crypto question if you just fill out the 1040ez and take the standard deduction?

>>25579633
Unfortunately if you're cashing out over $1m which will be relevant for alot of anons here, the long term incentive (hold >1yr) becomes irrelevant under Biden, and you pay 40% regardless.

>>25579349
well, i aint black. so i can't pay taxes any more.

>>25579708
It's gonna have to take people like Bezos and Bill gates losing extraordinary amounts of wealth from taxes before this shit comes to an end.

>>25579832
So cashing out 999,999 dollars will still be 20% capital gains tax rate?

>>25579349
Imagine not knowing how to get around cap gains. You sir are ngmi

>>25579615
this.

>>25579633
You retard Biden wants to change the tax codes. You can't get 20% anymore

>>25579611
>>25579589

ITT: people who don't know how burger taxes work. Its 40% on any money made after 1million. Meaning the first million is taxed at a normal capital gains rate. And if you're cashing out correctly, you're MAGI for the year shouldn't be 1mil...

>>25579701
Beg pardon?

>>25579886
Please explain

>>25579877
are niggers going to feed themselves?

>>25579918
Dude many of us here are holding 5+ mil...

>>25579563
never cash out unless you are spending it immediately. you know better.

I make over $1M a year so I'm already in the highest tax bracket since I never hold anything for more than a week. The rich get richer and the bitch get bitcher.

>>25579953
Well, if Biden's plan passes then the cashing out process will be longer or anons will have to cough up the extra 20%.

>>25579918
Do you know how many people have at any given job I've worked at try to tell me they do their best to make under the next tax bracket so "they don't get taxed more"?

>>25579611
based retard

>>25579675
higher that you are right now.

>>25579953
Youre Larping but anyway That would mean hypothetically only 4mil of that is getting taxed at that rate. Also if you're holding that much $, you shouldn't be cashing out to a personal bank account, you should at that point own a business custodial account or non profit (which both are subject to other tax rates, and are not impacted by this change). The wealthy do not cash out directly under their social security numbers..

>>25579995
I can only imagine, I cringe every time i hear that statement lol

>>25579918
>And if you're cashing out correctly, you're MAGI for the year shouldn't be 1mil
Elaborate please.

>>25579926
You take out an interest bearing loan against crypto as collateral. No cap gains need to be paid.

>>25579349
taxes are optional
it's 27% in my country but I pay 0% because I'm not so stupid as to tell the taxman
t. cashed out 150k in crypto these last 4 years

>>25580064
USA taxman is a big guy

>>25580053
I talked about this briefly in my other post but, the idea here is that you would own a business or non profit that you setup via legal zoom (before shell companies get banned for good) and then transfer the funds to that business/non profits wallet that you open up an instiutional account for. Once you do that, then you cash out via the business / NP account and then have the business to pay you via salary or buy assets under the business name with the cash, and write them off as business expenses. You should not be cashing out things directly under your name

when I make it I'm just going to go Roger Ver and get a Saint Kitts passport and fuck off to Asia. Screw the Jewnited States, they aren't getting a fucking penny from me if I can help it

>>25580033
>Also if you're holding that much $, you shouldn't be cashing out to a personal bank account, you should at that point own a business custodial account or non profit (which both are subject to other tax rates, and are not impacted by this change). The wealthy do not cash out directly under their social security numbers..
Redpill me on some of this stuff, how hard is it to set up?

Won't the earliest this could happen be next year anyways? So no need to worry until 2022 taxes right?

>>25580144
Check out legalzoom.com, they make it super simple. It's paperwork that they take care of for you. Best state for store your assets is Nevada..ALot of people dont know this but apple is owned by a Asset Management Firm (That's ran by apple) based out of Nevada. Nevada is a great tax shelter for business.

>>25580144
>>25580173
More on this can be read here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Braeburn_Capital

>>25580033
Unfortunately I don't have a choice in the matter. It's not, and can't be shielded by a biz account or non profit. It's not only crypto I'm holding.

>>25580057
Can I do this with stocks too?

>>25580173
except apple is an actual business. if you claim to be a business for tax purposes but aren't trying to make money i don't think the irs likes that

>>25580089
The worst that could possibly happen in USA if you don't pay your taxes is the IRS sends their personal military into your house and they kill your entire family. Why worry.

I’m paying 12.5% because I’m aware that short term capital gains is based on my income. My longterm holds (and make it money) will be taxed at 15%, because I’m not a monkey and will withdraw enough to be below the 441k threshold.

>>25580222
Investing is considered a business activity. It's completely legal. Just be sure not to cross your personal money with the business account or you'll get fucked (piercing the corporate veil)

>>25580159
The thing is, if the new tax laws pass, the 2021 bullrun might get cancelled as both crypto and traditional markets will have loads of people trying to cash out at once.

>>25579737
>not just going into USDC

are you guys retarded?

>>25580231
Hah, you wish. The IRS Killing you would be a good thing. They would rather charge you to death until you die from other causes. Remember, American Citizens are resources for the IRS. The less humans that exist, the less they get paid.

>>25580214
Theres a different way to do it with stocks that im not as familiar with. But with crypto you can use something like celsius to take a loan out against your crypto assets while generating a return also

>>25580275
Makes sense. Though if rich people are as good at avoiding taxes with NPs or whatever as mentioned above maybe it won't be so bad.

>>25579454
>Trump is going to win.

>>25580314
This is still taxable. The IRS will see the deposits hitting your account. Loans count as income as well.

>>25580303
Sometimes you have to make an example to show everyone what you're capable of.

>>25580269
okay, but you would still have to pay taxes on your income that your corporation pays you, and that would include shit like social security and medicare. LT capital gains is only 15% way less than income + payroll tax

>>25579611
>>25579966

Imagine this, you're holding $10M of LINK at the end of this bullrun (which is possible for many anons), Let's say there's a huge spike and it's very clearly the top. You have two options, sell into stablecoins and pay 40% cap gains or hold and watch ~$5M dollars bleed out during the following bear market...

It's fucked and is gonna force the hands of a lot of biz if it happens.

>>25580295
You pay the tax on that too nigger

I only have short term cap gains, I’m fucked either way.

>>25580392
It will cost you less over the long run. You keep forgetting about what happens once the money hits your bank account. Don't forget, interest gets taxed. If you have multiple of millions in your bank account generating interest....guess what you owe tax on that as well.. Alot of anons forget about that as well

Have any anons considered moving Puerto Rico to avoid this? I am in the process of researching it more. From what I've learned you do not need to sell and rebuy, just all $ gains on LINK after officially relocating are 0% tax. I am unsure if you just go there for 1 year then sell if you still need to buy a property, or if that is only applicable if going for a longterm business there.

>>25580394
If LINK is truly the next big thing then it should not crash that much right?

Anons, serious advice. If you have an undergraduate degree, look into an online masters degree in Tax Lax (LLM), they are super cheap and probably one of the best investments you can make for yourself. Tax Law is EXTREMELY complicated and the IRS will fuck you if you don't know what you're doing. I'm personally going to sign up for a Tax Law program once I have the cash set aside for it. University of Arizonas program is 1 year and only costs around 18k

All Americans should just refuse to pay taxes taxes after this retardfest of a year.

>>25580394
first of all, i doubt 'many' anons are going to ever have $10 M in stink. $1000 EOY is a meme not a real thing. second how the fuck can you tell it's "clearly the top"? better strat is to hold non-meme coins like bitcoin and eth, and not have bags of pump and dump shitcoins

>>25580470
i looked it up after seeing this thread. only gains that accrue after you take residence in PR are subject to special tax rates. all your gains pre-moving are taxed normally

>>25579918
I wouldn't expect any more from this forum. Look up "progressive tax", guys.

>>25580354
The interest generated is taxable but the loan you take out is not. Interest bearing loans arent taxed.

>>25580470
Why move completely? Just buy land and drop a mailbox on it. If you have a building permit for the land you can apply for a "situs" address, which basically is a mailing address for the land. You can then use that address to claim residency.

>>25580489
>18k
>1 year of your life
>not to mention hours of reading boring tax law
wouldn't it be better to, i dunno, hire a tax accountant or something?

>>25580510
that's what im doing. if burning down a city is mostly peaceful, then they're luck im only withholding taxes. i'm not even filing.

>>25579563

So the governemnt does track and tax crypto? What's the point then?

>>25580354
What? Loan is income? No it's not retard.

>>25580605
There have been plenty of situations where individuals have been screwed by their accountants because they didn't know any better. Alot of anons are all about the DIY lifestyle. I think an 18k expense once is alot cheaper than paying a tax accountant for the rest of your life.... Besides if you like making money, it won't be that boring.

You guys are such epic traders in every thread so I'm surprised if any of you can actually claim long term gains

>>25580580
AFAIK they will fuck you hard if you are not thorough. You need to cut ties with the US, and establish PR as your base, and you need to be there at least 6 months of the year but can travel internationally I think 2 or 3 months. If I went there I am assuming I would be saving tons of money so would not try to find any loopholes.

>>25580580
You need to be a resident for the whole tax year.

>>25580427
You’re right I was mistaken.


Regardless of any of this shit its better to just nut up and pay your taxes, the IRS is fucking evil. Maybe I’ll gift my crypto to my brother or something so he gets an absurdly low tax rate

>>25579349
they don't get my tax money if I don't cash out.

>>25579349
>>25579450
I doubt democrats will actually pass a 40% tax. No doubt they'll misuse taxpayer money, but the lawmakers would lose a huge amount of money. Don't worry, even if they pass a 40% tax of some sort, they'll write in some nice big loopholes.

>>25580670
If you're loaning yourself money, that's going to be taxable if it's an interest generating loan... just to clarify. But to be fair, I'm not 100% familiar with the celsius loaning strategy, either way the IRS is probably going to dig into it when your bank reports a bunch of deposits in your account and there aren't matching deposits to pay off the loan.

>>25579589

If only republicans didn't force all of these taxes with their military industrial complex, gifting billions to foreign countries, all while doing everything they can to cut taxes for trillionaires while leaving the middle class to pay the bill

>>25580696
that's the best plan. as others have said take out loans against your assets and then refinance the loans as the assets appreciate. tax free money for the rest of your life

>>25580629
Its meneworthy. It wouldn't take many to do it and shock the system and there isn't a lot they can do about it with a decent amount of people. I think we should target the maga crowd. They're the ones that actually work.

>>25580677
Well..cutting ties with the US won;t work... Puerto Rico is a US territory...

>>25580354
>Loans count as income
If that were true then everyone would get slapped with an insane tax bill when they took out a mortgage

Hot damn there are so many retards in here. The tax would be based on your income, not your crypto gains you idiots.

Have sex

>>25580825
even moving to another country won't work because US citizens still need to pay your US taxes. only way out is to get a foreign passport and renounce citizenship

>>25580269
So what about money I invested and profited on before this whole cash out through a business thing? Any way to cash it out in this beneficial way without "piercing the corporate veil"? Thanks bro.

>>25580836
>1 post by this ID
I already clarified above. No need to sperg out on a mistake.

>>25580844
the retard here is you fren. if you buy an asset whether it's crypto or stocks or pokemon cards, and it appreciates in value and you sell it for more than you paid, you owe taxes on that appreciation

>>25580825
Well cutting ties to the mainland as they say, I am pretty sure they do look into these things like homes in US and mailing address etc

>>25580863
There's an exit tax when you "leave"
>>25580873
Define "profited". Are you still holding the coins or did you convert them to FIAT? If you're still holding, you can transfer them to a business owned crypto wallet at an exchange and convert them to FIAT.

>>25579454
>>25579503
>actually, it's good that the rich are pulling up the ladder after them!

>>25579349
correct me if I'm wrong, but worse case scenario they can only apply tax laws like that starting NEXT year, 2022. So as long as I cash out profits on or before December 31st 2021, I should be fine.

But that aside, I seriously doubt they'll hike the capital gains tax rate, considering all the corporate backing that both sides get.

>>25580749
>what is unfunded liabilities like medicare, medicaid, and welfare. hurrrrr durrrrrrr. or having Israel's dick so far down our throats I can see it out of our ass

>>25579349
>he doesn't know you can take loan with less APR than taxes

>>25579454
>>25579503
This mindset is why you are a wager tho. It’s okay to be realistic AND set goals

>>25580844
You're a retard. Capital gains counts as income. Yes it's taxed at a different rate but it also effects your bracket

>>25579454
doesnt it anger you that the 1% pays more tax than 90% of the population combined?

>>25580984
not really since the 1% have more than 90% of the wealth and the entire system is set up for their exclusive benefit

>>25580275
Which is the other reason I doubt they'd do something like that. The #1 thing the government, whether red or blue, cares about is muh stonks. Nuking the capital gains tax rate would collapse every single market. Not gonna happen.

>>25580901

Capital gains and dividends which are taxed at the lower rates WILL NOT push your ordinary income into a higher tax bracket.

Now go consult your accountant and find out for yourself. Im done spoon feeding you.

>>25579450
they don't care, they'll utilize loopholes or just pay off someone in the IRS while the little guy gets fucked

>>25580931
I have a lot of unrealized gains in crypto that would be useful to save taxes on using this method.

Sounds like you're saying I'm clear to just send it to a business owned exchange wallet but what I'm unsure about is the fact that it was purchased outside of that wallet with my own money. But you're saying as long as the cash out happens on the business owned wallet, it's all good?

Oh and just fyi for everyone, that exit tax is only over $2M. So if you have 1.5M, move to Portugal now, it goes to $10M this bullrun then you cash out, you're all good.

>>25581038

*long term capital gains

>>25580354
Loans aren't taxable because they have to be repaid. Now if the loan was forgiven, thats taxable. They really don't want anyone having fun

>>25581032
Yeah they aren't going to do it. Politicians just say stuff like that to rile up their voters / constituents. There's no way our corporate bought politicians would do that, they would get murdered by McDonalds Shell Gang bangers.

>>25581060
If you're concerned. Have your business to invoice you for "services" and then pay your business in crypto. There's many ways to launder the money legally.

>>25580488
Oh you sweet summer child. You know how many times Bitcoin has crashed 50%+? ETH did too and LINK has and will continue to do so as well.

>>25580529
Many of us don't need $1000, many of us just need $100 or even $50. Keep in mind 100k LINK at ICO was only $10k.

>>25580966

Long term capital gains do not. Stfu

>>25581102
Thanks tax bro, you've given me some things to research.

>Trump Wins
>Republicans Win
Trillions of dollars of infrastructure packages to the Untied States economy.

>Biden Wins
>Democrats Win
Trillions of dollars of welfare cheques and maybe a War

>Biden Wins
>Republicans Win
Fucking Nothing. Ineffectual government as America crumbles and rich elites suck her dry and fuck off

What are the plays for these 3 scenarios?

>>25579589

Our fault for letting women have the right to vote. They're fine with tax slavery as long as they always have their programs.

>>25579349
I'd be fine with it but Biden is absolutely not going to fuck over his corporate doms.

>>25581157
Oh, and correction. Scenario number 3 is most likely for a War as a distraction.

>>25580749

Utterly incorrect retardation. Deliberately so. This rat doesn't even want to own up to his own leftism when it's put under a microscope, imagine having such shitty political opinions that you have to lie about them because you know they're terrible and self-serving.

You americans are so fucked. I have 0% taxes on crypto here in Germany

>>25581136
Yes they do retard. Even if you have 0 income you'll get hit with the 20% cap gains tax if you cash out enough

>>25579563
Just leave the country if you have that much.

>>25581092
I clarified above as to why I made this statement but just as a refresher "Loans only become taxable if you don't pay the lender back, or the IRS decides that your loan was a tax scam."....We were discussing celsius network and "loaning yourself money".. The IRS would most definitely tax you if they dug into loan details. Either way this is a bad idea and I wouldn't recommend it to any anons

>>25581237
Have to pay an exit tax on everything if you have over $2M (which I do).
Also it's not worth renouncing my US citizenship even with how fucked up the US is.

>>25581230
Yes but everything else is taxed to shit and your women are wildly feminist, even more so than american women. You win some you lose in other departments. The truly based move is going to SEA.

>yet again Atlanta the very last to count where they're going to come up with magic truckloads of votes that get them just across the finish line

>>25581300
what do you hold?

>>25581300
Don't cash out until you get into Portugal

>>25581328
>yet again, the place with the most votes takes the longest to count
Go figure.

>>25581234

>>25579701
For those who will have at around 1M, you can just sit on the position and take out a little each month. The position automatically goes up at least 7% a year or so which offsets the 4% you take out. You can theoretically live off this. If you only take out so much every year you don't pay capital gains.

Much better than cashing all out. For example instead of having one lump sum of 850k USD, you have 1M in BTC that you pay yourself out of every month (4% a year).

>>25581328
Holyfuck please Republicans do me a solid here. I am swearing bullets watching CNN.

>>25581406

That isn't how it works. They have more voting districts and counters as well. Could have something to do with the mass paper mail in ballots Dems have been gleefully cheering for, good thing those are a lot easier to spoof too.

>>25581344
US gov makes you pay when you renounce your citizenship before you leave, even if you haven't realized the profit. So unless you're going somewhere that doesn't extradite and you plan on never visiting the US again, this doesn't work.

>>25581332
Stinkies of course

Also it's looking like Atlanta is going to do to Georgia what Chicago did to Illinois basically, drag the entire state into shitty permablueness. They're on borrowed time now.

>>25581431
*lump sum of 800k.
Would be even better if tax rates increase. No need to sell your Bitcoin, sell a tiny bit each month, and watch it offset back up naturally. Or borrow against it. No need to pay taxes.

Tax is just the price you pay to live in a good country. There are places out there with no tax but you would not want to be there.
Mine strikes a good balance in between.

>>25581431
Yeah the problem is when BTC ultimately crashes 80% after the bubble pops and bears for the next four to five years.

>>25581289
So taking out a loan you need to pay back that you pay interest on is taxable just because crypto is the asset you are using as collateral? You are talking about your business giving yourself a personal loan or something like that.

>>25581411
>hurrrr durrr
>thinks you don't get hit with the highest tax bracket if you have 0 income

In what world would that make any sense

>>25581504

You can be ok with reasonable taxes for infrastructure and services, anon. That would be more like a 5% effective tax rate, not 30 to 40%.

>>25579349
Remember anon once you die and go to the afterlife you're not remember for what you have but what you done

>>25581157
>cheques
okay, Abdullah.

>>25581541
Of course, but one can also DO a hell of a lot more when they HAVE more.

>>25581506
This guy gets it. Some of us wanna be able to cash out all at once before the bear cycle and not pay 40% on it.

>>25580984
you're a faggot.

>>25581230
lol how brown does my skin color need to be to gain German citizenship? How long can I say nigger before getting jailed? Germans are the biggest cucks on the planet beyond swedes

>>25579454
>>25579349
Money moves out of the country as a response.
Enjoy your bigger peice of a smaller pie faggots

>>25579737
Collateralize a loan off it and pay no tax

>>25581628
This. I don't get the newfags saying shit like "don't be a pussy, just HOLD!"
Holding is for when you already fucked up or you're confident you're still in a bull market and the price will bounce back up soon. But crypto follows a fairly standard trend. 4 year cycle, 3 years bear market and 1 year bull market. Obviously nobody can time the exact top/bottom, but it still behooves you to try to sell your positions at what feels like the absolute top of the cycle (probably late 2021 or early 2022) and then rebuy later when you think the bear market has stabilized. Then wait until 2025 (possibly taking advantage of rallies that happen along the way, like we saw in 2018 and 2019) but holding out for the next bull market spike in 2025.

>>25579349
im leaving the united shitholes

>>25581467
Go to Puerto Rico

>>25579563
You realize then it would be 40% of anything AFTER a million? Theyre called brackets for a reason you gay nigger

>>25581227
Almost as ig social security and subsidized healthcare is ineffective and expensive. Who would have thought.

>>25579918
1 million isn’t even a lot anymore. Go fucking kill yourself

>>25581157
>trillion of dollars of infrastructure if Trump wins

AHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHWHHWWHHAHAHAHA

>>25579832
its only taxed on the money after 1 mil too. If i'm cashing out more than a mil a year i've already made it.

>>25581778
Yeah, If I have $5M I don't wanna pay 40% on $4M dipshit.

>>25579349
>40% capital gains
BILLIONAIRE CLASS WINS AGAIN BAHBYYYYY. NOT EVEN CLOSE WAGECuCKS!
>He thought his >7 figures robinhood account/cryptocuck wallet would save him
OH NO NO NO NO NO

>>25581457
>more nigs and libs in cities
>always votes dems, more dem ballots
>more voting infrastructure but is not enough for the millions of people who live in a densely populated area
wow gee

>>25581773
This is probably my best bet. At least then I'd only need to pay on what I have now but that means I need to do it ASAP before the 2021 bull run really takes off.

>>25579708
What are the bongs up to now? Was considering cashing out and moving to London

>>25581874

At least you can admit the shittiest and most incompetent people live there and dictate the political direction of the state

>>25581810

more like you made a trip to the grocery store. get ready for hyperinflation.

>>25581886
I'm thinking of going there too. Like if I do would I have to pay in trades I made in other states before I went there if I didn't cash out?

>>25581506
Yeah, that could happen. I'll be in Bitcoin at 100k because at that level institutions have even MORE reason to invest, which sounds crazy but it's true. At that level there'll be more institutions that have invested which will curb the volatility, and at such a market cap the order book will be much much harder to move.

Also, this is a long term hold. No brainer. Millenials only hold 5% of the wealth today. FIVE. As in five percent. Yes really. So what happens when Millenials actually come into money? In 20, 30 years, the history of Bitcoin won't be "It ran up to 100k in a year and then fizzled." Lol, no. It will be "I had the opportunity to buy when you could still buy integer Bitcoins."

Also, the digital world as well as network effects work parabolically, not linearly. The digital world grows exponentially.

The writing is on the wall as far as I'm concerned. The Fed keeping interest rates at zero for the next 3 years or whatever they said brings us right into another halving. Also, the more this thing goes up, the more it draws people in. Unlike, say Google, where it is ultimately bound by a valuation - even if the valuation based on earnings is insane. With Bitcoin it's not tied to any number, where someone can say "Tesla is overpriced for these reasons." Bitcoin literally has no ceiling because the ceiling is that in which we decide for it (25X to match golds worth but it does everything better than gold).

So, yeah, I'm bullish. Will there be corrections. OF COURSE. But this is going to explode throughout the decades and we were lucky to have access to it.

>>25581431

Yeah long term capital gains tax rate is 0% if you make under 40k or 80k filing with your spouse. Pretty based

>>25581504
>Tax is just the price you pay to live in a good country.

Kek you aren't doing a good job with your argument when countries like America exist. It's literally 3rd world tier

>>25580394
short it and lock in at the price you want without tax consequences

>>25579826
Nope. If you simply choose not to answer the question and declare your income you legally don't have to pay taxes. Trust me bro

>>25581227
I hate this kind of thing because SS and Medicare draw from funds specifically made for them. That's different from the government conjuring money from thin air and deciding to put like 40-60% of it towards bombs.

>>25579349
are you sure, reds are in the lead rn? georgia is also insanely gerrymandered

this is like the first time in my life i want these cunts to win so the market isn't trashed because of what people assume will happen if blues win

>>25581773
the puerto rico loophole only works for assets gained after moving there. You still need to pay capital gains tax on assets you have from BEFORE going.

>>25581904
Obviously but that doesn’t mean I believe /pol/ of all places, on anything when it comes to whats really going on kek

>>25581943

Based. Bitcoin for millennials is going to be the Boomer’s SP500. In 40 years the future zoomer generations will call our generation the mooners and think we had it easy because we could buy bitcoin and get rich

>>25582021

It's all money forcibly taken from your hands and redistributed to others. At least my military protects my country and economic interests. No one's even saying our defense budget isn't too big, we're saying the entire fucking budget is too big and our whole system has become fucked, my friend.

This is a system built to permanently entrench the working class in wage/tax servitude while letting the top 0.5% take off on their own.

>>25581517
I don't think what you use as collateral matters. Hell the IRS taxes you for bartering non fiat, if you gave me a handjob and i provided you with seashells, I would have to report the fair market value of your happy ending. The point I was trying to make that the whole "loan yourself money" through a third party service thing is probably not going to work. The IRS specifically exists to find ways to make money off of you.

>>25582048
What if I don't cash out and have it offline

>>25581941
My understanding is the taxes are paid retroactively when you eventually realized them. So whenever you trade or cash out, you have to pay whatever cap gains you would have had if you cashed out the day you moved there.

So if I move there with $1M in cap gains, cash out nothing that year and then cash out $10M in cap gains year 2, I'd pay no taxes year 1 and then taxes on $1M year 2

>>25582169
if you don't sell then you wouldn't need to bother with tax bullshit anyway.

>>25582173
Do you pay taxes on crypto trades even if you don't cash out? I only pay when I cash out

>>25581743
Yeah I’ve witnessed an entire cycle now and this is exactly what I’ll be doing. Selling 80% of my portfolio at the end of this year. If I get left in the dust oh well I was still early as fuck and hopefully the remaining 20% becomes something big a decade from now. But if the cycle trends continue then I can possibly take 20% of my cashed out gains and swing back in to my original stack amount or even more. Seems like the best play. Worst case scenario is it crashes before I cash out and I have to wait another 4 years but even that wouldn’t be the end of the world.

>>25579615
No evidence of voter fraud goyim. Oh btw Republicans are cheating and stealing your blue votes

Move into a lower tax country? Maybe even Chinkland? Move back into US later but with CCP pedo why would you?

>>25582253
This time is different.

>>25582316
>he doesn't know
USA is one of only two countries in the world (the other being eritrea) that requires expats to still pay taxes

>>25582073
Government spending isn't driven by tax revenue. Tax revenue is just proof to the system that there's economic activity to support the spending and to service the "debt" that is being accumulated. The debt will never be paid off. We can have whatever we like from the government as long as capital holders don't panic because Barbara Sue got a new flatscreen and fed and housed her children comfortably.

> At least my military protects my country and economic interests.
And that's why we overspend on it. Not because it's actually effective. Because it keeps you all from getting nervous.

>This is a system built to permanently entrench the working class in wage/tax servitude while letting the top 0.5% take off on their own.
Yes, but not for the reasons you think.

>>25581958
Incorrect. Capital gains drives up your income.
Think about it, if what you're saying was true, someone with no job (no income) would pay $0 on $100M in capital gains. Not gonna happen.
https://quarryhilladvisors.com/blog/can-capital-gains-push-me-into-a-higher-tax-bracket
"Bad news first: Capital gains will drive up your adjusted gross income (AGI)"

>>25582002
And take on additional risk of that trade in the potential scenario I call the top wrong and get liquidated? Nah. At least cashing out locks in gains, even if it means missing out on some.

>>25582349

It is justified by it, and that comes from our hands. You aren't refuting anything just spinning off into your own conspiracy theory. I still pay an effective 30-40% of my life earnings and gains because kikes decided they'd swap tariffs for income taxes in the 1950's.

>>25582229
You're supposed to lol. Crypto to crypto exchanges are counted as a tax event same as if you cashed out. Used to be you could count it as "like kind exchange" but the IRS explicitly said that doesn't apply to crypto since 2018.

>>25582065
Exactly, most people here don't know this. But Boomers had the opportunities we don't. They had an insanely cheap stock market, cheap real estate, and bonds at record yields. These are the three key most important investments in the world.

Bonds are now dead. Negative in Europe (negative, you're paying them to take away your money). And near zero in the US with many experts saying we'll see negative this year. Best case zero, as in you make nothing. Well, the 60/40 portfolio was just wiped out which is only the most popular investment strategy in the world. Gone.

Stocks are at ATH during a recession. Same with real estate.

I think everyone here knows, maybe not how to articulate, but knows at least subconsciously we are getting fucked. Look at the wealth gap, it's fucking INSANE. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPKKQnijnsM&t=5s
This leads to more populism, whether it be violent or political. Paradigm shifts happen in these cases.

So, Bitcoin isn't only a once in a lifetime investment. It's also quite literally the most prudent investment because every other investment has now turned into a bad investment.

This isn't a Bitcoin went up that one year thing. It's a place to store value when the Fed bleeds out your monetary energy (your fucking life), and an alternative to the asset bubble boom and bust cycle we've seen since money became fiat.

>>25582453
I've been around since the only way to cash out was a money order from Mt Gox. Fuckin wish I took more advantage of those wild taxless days.

>>25580354
Loans are not income buddy. I can't believe that needs to be said. . .

You fucking whiners.
You make 1 million and are still whining.
Leave and dont let the door hit you on your way out.
Lord have mercy.

>>25582402
You're not getting it. The only reason the spending ratio is the way it is, and the tax rate is the way it is, is because it's what we've been lead to believe will avoid a capital-holder freakout. But, here's facts: we can feed everyone, give everyone top-tier healthcare, put everyone in decent housing, educate everyone who wanted an education, and move everyone around efficiently and cheaply, if we wanted to. You wouldn't have to work any more than you already do, and probably less and in a more fulfilling and humane fashion. We have all the natural resources and all the manpower and technical expertise necessary for all that.

The problem is that the power is in the wrong hands and so the political will is non-existent. Tax me 100% but give me a vote that by some technological sleight of hand gave me radical agency and a full safety net and I would choose that over keeping every red cent I earned from my boss, an oligarch that has me shopping at the company store and working on election day.

>>25582638
$1million ain't shit. It's the new $100k. You must have at least $10million to make it.

>>25579349
>cashing out instead of using digital cash monero
Ok, boomer

>>25582453
I've never paid taxes in my life, I have never had a job and used student financial aid to buy crypto.

>>25582717

Lol and there's the punchline, you're a socialist. Fuck off.

>>25582750
Nah bud it's Super Capitalism :^)

>>25580984
you're a fucking moron.

what is 20% tax on tens of millions of dollars vs someone who makes $60k/yr having to pay 35%?

fuck off cunt.

>>25582750
He isn’t wrong. We need national socialism.

>>25582073
>At least my military protects my country and economic interests.
Are you israeli? If not, I hope you're not talking about the american military.

>>25582881
hes a faggot neocon boomer who actually thinks the elite are socialist communist leftists and not capitalist profit oriented kikes who need the bullet

>>25579349
How can any trading strategy even work when they take 40% of it?

>>25582912
40% of profits, but yes. It's fucking garbage.

>>25582021
THERE ARE NO FUNDS FOR THEM YOU FUCKING RETARD. ITS JUST THEFT FROM SOME PEOPLE TO BOOMER FUCKS

>>25582746
LMFAO. You rokk.

>>25582911
>socialist communist leftists and not capitalist profit oriented kikes who need the bullet
Left kike, right kike, both kikes.
Gas 'em all.

>>25583000
True. The point is that they're separate pools from everything else by design.

It's over /biz/ we're fucked. Here comes the dump of dem votes

>>25583001
Am I fucked by the irs though? I first bought in 2015 and started trading alts in 2017 till now. Ironically I fucked up and would have more btc if I just never touched it.

>>25579589
Wow, just wow. Israel needs that money to defend the only democracy in the Middle East, chud.

>>25583179
Holyshit you are going to get reamed homie

>>25582881

You understand nothing of neocolonialism. America's status isn't protected by nothing

>>25579349
If you’re cashing out crypto before 2025 you’re ngmi anyways

>>25583209
I've wasted enough time in the desert to know I wasn't fighting to protect american interests.

>>25582638
If you had to give away $1M out of $4M, you'd be whining too.

>>25582750
We can have a distribution of wealth where everyone is above the poverty level yet the rich still make 100x more than the poor. Doesn't have to jump right to 100% socialism from where we are now (which is extreme inequality)

>>25579499
checked!

>>25583206
Why? I have never had a job and have never cashed out.

>>25579349
Brainlet here, but what about just hiding your crypto assets. obtaining citizenship and moving somewhere else, renouncing your US citizenship, and then cashing out?

Its clear few understand this law only really catches the windfall profits like VC cash-outs and ultra-high net worth individuals.

>>25583513
It also catches biz anons who made a fuck ton of money on crypto. I know, with the amount of retardation, it's hard to believe, but it happens.

>>25579349
cant tax if i dont sell, checkmate

>>25580275
Nah. there will be some volatility though

>>25582348
How is this enforceable if you move away, open a foreign bank account, and never communicate with the US again?

>>25583330
Every time you trade it's a taxable event

>>25583651
Most nations will extradite you back to the US for tax evasion. Nations that don't extradite to America mostly suck for the most part too.

>>25583261
Is it weird that I fuck with servicemen who realize this more than ones who don't?

>>25583261
based, >>25583209 you think I sit in a metal coffin under the fucking ocean for 3 months 2 times a year because it helps America???? Bitch please the kikes own the entire military

>>25583300
For the vast majority of sane investments that would mean that you already hold $40M though (10% return). So you now own $43M instead of $44M.

Pardon me if I'm not moved to pitchforks by the prospect.

>>25583501
If enough people start doing this they'll just militarize the IRS and double down on extradition treaties.

>>25583813
You're okay with the government taking every 2 out of every 5 dollars on all your gains?

>>25583701
How would they know though? I'd still have to file taxes in the US, but I can lie and report that I am earning minimum wage in another country, putting me below the poverty line and making it so I don't pay anything. How can this go wrong? What about just hopping countries so they can't trace me? With the way shit is going down here, there's no feasible way the gov will be able to single me out in particular because many people are going to flee once SHTF

Jokes on you, sir!

>>25579349
lmao, ill just cash out and fuck off the china, i don't give a fuck, id like to see the irs try to extradite me from the PRC

>>25583662
So what can happen to me I didn't know

>>25579349
It's only going to backfire by making our hands stronger, which will increase the price of BTC to such a degree that it will flip the banking system, collapsing the puppet government as a result. Cap this

>>25579349
>cash out
Why would I ever cash out when bitcoin collateralized loans are a thing

>>25583813
For the vast majority of rich biztards, they're losing 40% of their net worth because of this since their gain wasn't a retarded boomer 10% but was 10,000%

>>25583880
The issue arises when foreign banks notify the IRS of your large deposits. A decade or two ago, foreign bank accounts, particularly Swiss ones, were a great option for Americans to park cash overseas privately, but in the last 10-15 years the US government has threatened nations with sanctions or violence if they refuse to disclose the accounts of Americans to the IRS. Renouncing your citizenship and avoiding the exit taxes is the only way.

>>25583990
The IRS can come after you + interest otherwise you're going to jail... If you get caught... Which you will once you go back to fiat

>>25579349
>stock market goes up 200%
oh no!!! 10% more tax? how will I ever cope???

>>25580580
>Just buy land and drop a mailbox on it
The IRS would call your call your bluff and investigate you, especially if you’re selling off millions worth of assets. You really think it’s as east as just getting a mailing address in a different country?

>>25584176
It's actually 25% more you fucking retard. 15% long term tax

>>25583994
Dude don't you see what's going to happen? All markets including crypto will crash HARD as everyone pulls out while cap gains is still only 23.8%. Every investment will go to shit in the short term

>>25584175
How much interest? I'm sure tons of people don't know about this like kind shit

>>25584218
Agreed. Anyone with over ~$2M is gonna dump to rest their cost basis.

>>25584256
They don't teach you this shit in school, but yes everyone over 18 knows this. Everyone knows you need to pay taxes.

>>25584356
reset their cost basis*

>>25584256
You're not safe by feigning ignorance. And if you use a centralized exchange like coinbase they will actually report you to the IRS if you have >10k. Be careful anon

>>25580121

Same.

>>25584384
What can I do now?

>>25579503
>He thinks that really rich people pays taxes.
Anon, i...

>>25583651
Because America is world hegemon. Pretty much all countries bend the knee and will help the IRS collect their money from you. So you can have shit happen like foreign banks freezing your accounts, allowing you to be extradited to america for tax evasion, etc. Of course, these things are not likely to happen unless you're very wealthy, but still.

Also if you ever decide to visit your homeland ever again, the glowniggers will be ready on standby waiting to grab you.

>>25584422
You only really have two options. Report it and pay the taxes (sooner rather than later) OR exchange for cash under the table via stuff like localbitcoin

>>25579563

Usually burgers always rant about "EUROPOORS SOCIALIST SHITHOLE ERMAGAWD ERMAGAWD TAXHELL 'N STUFF"
Enjoy the rape urself fking meth heads

>>25583857
Since I'm already filthy rich, yes.

>>25584104
Okay? Use a fraction of that remaining multi-million 60% to buy out a politician and push your policy agenda through the money your government has graciously laundered for you.

Everything's a crisis with you people, that's why you're ngmi.

>>25579611
Go fuck yourself
>Maybe don't use the money that you took all the risk on when you want to use it?
People like you are literally why the USA was created.

>>25579454
>>25579503
This attitude is why u will be forever poor.

>>25584476
>>25584117
there's no way that chinese banks will give info to the glowniggers right?

>>25584356
Why would you dump when the tax climate could change in 4-8 years?

>>25584543
I don't keep track of every trade from the last few years man. And I have less btc than I started with in 2015,doesn't that mean I lost money trading so it isn't taxable?

>>25579349
Move to Puerto Rico.

>>25579349
>he thinks biden will do anything except some gay speeches and EOs about muh racial justice

>>25584607
Oh yeah, I can just change federal tax policy by buying out a politician or two with my measly ~$5M.

Ok schizo.

>>25579349
good thing im not a disgusting burger then

Iron handos frens. Trump 2024

>>25584644
Right, so there are exceptions. Basically if you're a kike who flees to israel on aliyah, or a chink national who goes to china, you'll be protected. But almost everyone else is fucked.

>>25580295
Are you? It’s a taxable event.

>>25579503
It affects your employer and so does you, anon.

>>25584648
Seriously? You expect people to just take on another 4-8 years of risk while also not enjoying their money during those years?

>>25584709
technically yes but as long as you swap on a non-KYC'd exchange or a dex it's essentially impossible for them to nab you on it.

>>25579563
>>25579548
>>25579563
>>25579611
>>25579737
>>25579832
>>25579994
>>25580275
>cash out
Into what? That memegreen?

>>25584724
You can still sell off enough to be comfortable while not going over the $1m mark while you wait for things to be more favorable to fully cash out.

>>25584745
Real estate, classic cars, land and other tangible assets you can actually use and enjoy.

>>25584707
>chink national who goes to china
don't even need to be a chink national desu
it's easy as fuck to get a chinese bank account as a foreigner
and if you just decide to stay there, suck the ccp's dick and not go back to america, im pretty sure usa can't do anything lol

>>25584683
Literally yes.

Or just do like that one absolute chad did and use $30M to flip multiple statehouses right before redistricting. You can't do THAT specifically anymore, of course. Get creative.

>>25584654
Oh dude. You are so fucked. I'm sorry bro. Your losses can offset your gains, but only in one tax year. If you bought and then later sold at a profit. That's a gain you're taxed on. Every single trade is taxable.

>>25579454
>>25579503
>they unironically think the Ruling Class won't tax everyone
Please dive off the nearest 30 FT tall object.

>>25579918
oh, so I only get taxed 30%
how generous, jew

>>25584767
>have $10M in gains
>only cash out $1M
>crypto crashes in next bear cycle
>now have $2M in gains all cause you waited on "maybe the gov will go back to 20% instead of 40%"

I’m a German citizen. Fuck you fucking Yankees eat shit.

>>25584644
Correct. Maybe add Russia to that list too. Basically any country that is on neutral to negative terms with the US likely won't report you to the IRS.

>>25584784
Lease, rent to own, borrowing?
I thought this bored was for business folk.

>>25584810
You are scaring me. The tax thing started in 2018 right? But seriously who keeps track of every trade and how can the irs even know if you're on a dex

>>25579686
500k. Euros of course. https://global-residency.com/monaco.html

>>25579349
Just don't cash out. Use DeFi to take out loans

>>25584891
As an unwilling yankee I second this. Zum Glück werde ich nächstes Jahr in die Schweiz umziehen ;)

>>25584739
riight then just deposit 2m of cash into coinbase then into your bank, they surely won't want to know where those gains came from right?

>>25584978
As long as you pay capital gains on the total, sure.

>>25584850
Everyone says bitcoin is a long term store of wealth, why would you not leave it there? People dont cash out all of their gold just because they have enough potential fiat to retire, you stand to gain more just leaving it in the asset and cash out when needed.

>>25580120
wait, so do you pay yourself a paycheck from this company equal to the amount you cash out - some smaller business tax rate, or do you just pay that tax bill when your business files taxes?
can i do this as a full time employee elsewhere? i'd assume not but not like you're actually working...

>>25585016
Counterpoint: Bitcoin will have many more huge dips on the way up, it makes more sense to trade the major 4 year cycles rather than just holding. 40% cap gains tax makes that much much harder to do though.

>>25584969
the one big issue with using crypto for collateral loans, is the fact that you have to put up alot more crypto as collateral than you actually get in fiat

im not sure if i wanna risk 50 eth to get $15000, if somehow the loan falls through or i can't max payments and i get liq'd it would have just been better to pay the tax

>>25584948
>But seriously who keeps track of every trade
non retards like us who actually pay our taxes so we don't get ass gaped by jamal in the pen

>>25585016
Because despite BTC being a perfect store of value, the fact that it's not widely adopted means that the value is not yet stable, but instead growing along with adoption. And because it has growth, it follows a boom/bust cycle. And we know based on stock2flow models that this cycle is 4 years.

We're in a bull market right now, and there's going to be a blow off top at some point. Most likely late 2021 or early 2022. Then a 3 year bear market, akin to after 2017. Knowing this macro-move is pretty much certain, there's no reason not to cash out during the bull market and rebuy in during the bear. No, you don't know the exact top or when the bubble will pop, but you can get a general idea like I said. That's still superior to just riding a bubble all the way up and then down without realizing shit.

>>25584948
pretty sure there are options for ppl like us, there are cpa's who specialize in crypto who can help u sort it out

>>25584955
Maybe i should sell my house and deposit that money into a Monaco bank

>>25584948
>who keeps track of every trade
Every exchange has a history of trades for your account.

>>25584948
Oh my god dude, you have to be trolling right?

Every trade on the blockchain is public. There are literally companies dedicated just to tracking transactions on the blockchain and the IRS pays them to track everyone's crypto.

Eventually when you cash out through Coinbase or whatever, they can then track back to the address that sent the money and then track every dex trade from there.

>>25584654
no cause taxes are in USD. you just didn't beat buy & hold. you still owe on the positive trades.

>>25584948
Yes anon we all track our trades. It fucking sucks but we do it because otherwise you'll get smacked by a huge IRS bill.

>>25585074
>40% cap gains tax makes that much much harder to do though.
Flip the BTC on a non-KYC'd exchange while riding out the dip. Don't report it. simple as

>>25585144
they don't have your SSN and cant prove you own every wallet.

>>25585144
get back to me when you can show me a single example of someone getting their door busted down by the IRS for not reporting uniswap shitcoin swaps. You seriously overestimate the capacity or ability of the IRS to bother with this shit.

>>25584948
>But seriously who keeps track of every trade
>Business & Finance

Never change, /biz/

>>25585158
>we all track our trades
thats not true at all. the vast majority do not.

the govt cant give a months rent during a national emergency or even vaccinate in time. it doesnt deserve 40% of currency trading of private individuals.

>>25585188
I just got audited for 2018 (for some 401k shit I goofed up, not crypto). They're pretty far behind.

You better bet your sweet ass they're gonna start going after crypto though with help from companies like Chainalysis.
https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/chainalysis-raises-100-million-at-over-1-billion-valuation-to-expand-its-global-regulatory-platform-for-surging-cryptocurrency-market-301179156.html

>>25585144
What if I gift all my crypto to my gf

>>25585284
they dont know who you are. get fucked

>>25585284
if you're that concerned just swap to monero and back to a clean wallet to break the chain.

>>25585263
What you *think* they deserve doesn't matter much when there's feds at your door.

Cryptocurrency is not taxable. Its just an informational key that falls under free speech, which the govt can't regulate.

>>25585284
What if I trade everything into xmr then back into a dex

>>25585330
Then you just have to explain to the IRS how a ton of money just magically appeared in your Coinbase account. That's worse imo.

>>25585363
that would work. whatever you do, dont use KYC exchanges.

>>25585378
because coinbase isn't the only source of money in crypto

>>25585134
>Maybe i should sell my house and deposit that money into a Monaco bank
You mean *one* of your houses, right? Monaco is not a charity flophouse, monsieur.

>To receive the permanent residency card ("Carte de Sejour") all applicants have to show proof of accommodation. Proof of accommodation may entail acquiring local real estate OR renting an apartment for a minimum of one year OR being the director of a company that holds corporate real estate in Monaco OR providing a letter and proof of property ownership/rental from a close relative with whom the applicant plans to live in Monaco.

>>25585378
Ill say I found an old wallet from years ago I forgot about

>>25585395
Right, you made gains other places, which they're gonna want to tax you on but then intentionally hid that through XMR which is tax evasion.

>>25585330
Youre not going to get around paying taxes on any significant amount of money. You can try to get around it but as >>25585378 said at the end of the day they will see you using the money and will want to know where it came from. You don’t want to get charged with tax fraud.

>>25585456
I'm not talking about evading taxes. Obviously you can't cash out to fiat without paying the piper.

What I'm saying is fuck reporting every shitcoin swap on a DEX when you're not even cashing out to fiat and realizing any gains.

>>25585439
Then they just demand you pay the income tax you never paid on what you mined on your old wallet.

>>25585078
I understand. I think the situation will get better in the future once the prices stabilize a bit more and we're presented with more options

>>25585506
I agree, it's fucked up. But it's the law and not doing so can result in legal trouble or more likely just an audit in a few years jewing you.

>>25585427
It would be doable to rent a place, deposit the money into the bank and live there for a few years with my current remote job while investing and not having to worry about taxes.

>>25585439
You’ll still have to pay the taxes on that. And now youve gotten unwanted attention from the IRS.

>>25585355
>Cryptocurrency is not taxable. Its just an informational key that falls under free speech, which the govt can't regulate.

What level of libertarian mongaloidism is this?

>>25585570
lmao yeah, good luck not having the judge laugh when presenting that argument.

>>25585562
They're not going to know. As long as they get their percentage on the net ins vs outs they won't give a shit. You give the boomers and shaniquas at the IRS far too much credit. Fuck em.

>>25585627
Ok, good luck. I hope you're right. I'm not gonna take the chance.

>>25585598
I swear to God, libertarians are just as autisticily utopian and delusional as communists

>>25585263
You are an idiot if you believe this. You will get raped when you cash out.

>>25585644
If I send my crypto to my gf and she cashes out in her name I'm good right

>>25585974
Oh yeah, perfect, congrats you discovered a loophole that 1000s of accountants managed to never see.

>>25586006
https://www.irs.gov/businesses/small-businesses-self-employed/frequently-asked-questions-on-gift-taxes

>>25585974
you're a mother fucking genius

>>25579499
OH NO NO NO NO NO

>>25586038
Isn't this for fiat gifts? I have sent people online crypto before. Are you sure sending some crypto to a person wallet to wallet is the same as fiat gifts? We aren't married or anything