/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>24795543
Shiff recomended his clients not to buy bitcoin when it was $10. that should tell you enough. he's a gold salesman.

>>24795543
>Now I belive the problem with Peter's statement is that even if you were to make a copy of Bitcoin, it wouldn't be "the" Bitcoin. What do you guys think?

Congrats. You managed to do a 5 min Google search, unlike Peter

>>24795543
You still havent understood crypto if you think the supply is infinite.
>more portable
>more divisable
>more limited (we still don't know the entire gold amount)
>more portable
BTC beats gold in every single aspect.

>>24795601
>he correctly predicted the '08 crisis, the infinite continuation of QE, the impossibility of the tightning of interest rates by the FED, going against virtually everyone else, but he hasn't recommended the one asset that exploded in price, therefore his opinion is shit

Come on now. I don't care. I just want to discuss this part of his criticism of Bitcoin

>>24795658
No, what he's saying is not that the supply of BTC is infinite. What he is saying is that crypto in general is infinite, as you can make infinite BTC clones. That's his argument

>>24795763
And you correctly realized that that argument is bullshit.
/thread.
What else you wanna talk about?

>>24795655
I completely agree, you can't just make a BTC clone and thusly inflate crypto.
The thing is, can BTC take on the whole world economy? Haven't altcoins like ETH and similar been created precisely because BTC may not be able to be scaled worldwide or to remedy to some of its shortfalls?
If this is true, than what is preventing a future happening where another, better crypto comes online. And than another that is better than that. And so on. Isn't that exactly what Peter is talking about?
Is BTC the ultimate crypto?

>>24795802
>>24795853

I'd like to talk about this

>>24795658
It is not durable

I guess what I'm trying to say is this:

- BTC cannot just be cloned, ultimately because of its brand

- but what if the economy cannot run on BTC, because of its technological shortfalls.

Now, if improvements like the lightning network can remedy the shortfalls that BTC has, than great, no problem: Peter is wrong.

But if the problems it has can only be fixed by creating another cryptocurrency, than Peter's argument stands.

>>24795543
>No other element has the properties of gold
what kind of pilpul kike shit is this

>No other color is quite as blue as blue. But anyone can pour water in a glass and call it an ocean.

>>24796083
You are either trolling or extremely low IQ. Please, consider necking yourself

>>24795658
who gives a fuck about the scarcity of something thats worthless? bitcoin has zero utility beyond being a 'means of exchange', which it cant be, because its not a commodity. only a commodity can be a store of value and therefore a means of exchange.

blockchain and smart contracts will change the world. bitcoin however is a ponzi scheme, and will never be a means of exchange, let alone THE means of exchange.

>>24795543
anybody can mint gold coins, but they wouldn't be the U.S. minted Gold Eagle coins.

the main problems with bitcoin is that it's lousy as a medium of exchange (you can't buy much with it, you can't pay your taxes with it, it's not private, and it requires a huge amount of energy to power the network) and it is not a store of value (it has no intrinsic value to store because the only thing it can do is be a medium of exchange which it's not even good at being)

>>24795730
He didn't say he was retarded, he said peter is a gold saleman.
he will never support something that could affect the marketcap of gold or was bearish for gold.

>>24796059
the BTC brand is no more safe than any brand that was popular with some generation but that fell out of favor with the next generation. it has happened a thousand times. BTC is not gonna last.

>you can just make another cryptocurrency

Is literally like saying you can just print your own us dollars with a home printer.

>Now I belive the problem with Peter's statement is that even if you were to make a copy of Bitcoin, it wouldn't be "the" Bitcoin. What do you guys think?
The history of crypto has shown that altcoins and other tokens act as proxies for bitcoin and add inflationary pressure to the crypto commodity market, which slows down price growth for "the" bitcoin.

When "crypto" and "bitcoin" fully decouple, it's anybody's guess what will happen to bitcoin. Does it become digital gold and the price hits 7, 8, 9 digits? Or does it get recognized as an inferior early version of a cryptocurrency and get abandoned for Monero or some other altcoin with lower fees and faster transactions?

>>24795853
A better bitcorn is still bitcorn, not fucking pre medieval corn.
Fucking boomers. We're logan's running and blade running them all already.

>what is silver?
>what is platinum?
>what is palladium?

face it, there's infinite amount of shiny rocks to market and dump on boomers.

>>24796262
Ok, the criticism about not being able to do much with it, may just be a temporary objection: compared with a couple of years ago, you can now buy a lot more stuff; so everithing else being equal, it may just be a matter of time.

But you are certainly right on the topic of energy expenditure. Running the whole world economy on BTC may prove to be way too expensive in term of energy. This is exactly what I'm talking about, the problem that are impossible to resolve and would require a new cryptocurrency. In that case, Peter is right

>>24796333
That is my fear exacly

>>24796414
>face it, there's infinite amount of shiny rocks to market and dump on boomers.

>>24795543
>I believe that coffee actually *is* good for you as long as you drink it in moderation
this thread is bad and you should feel bad for making it

>>24796371
Please, read my criticism more carefully: that's not what I'm saying

>>24796371
As opposed to the federal reserve doing the very same.
Very bad news goyim.

>>24796452
Why is my question wrong?

>>24795543
>anyone can make something that looks and feels like gold
he's just a retarded boomer

>>24796414
IM SO FUCKING SICK AND TIRED OF THIS 'MUH BOOMER ROCKS' MEME

I don't even own gold but this shit just makes you look bad. Boomers DONT own gold, In fact it's an absolutely tiny amount of the composition of retail and institutional portfolios, relative to paper assets.

Also to suggest theres an 'infinite' amount of precious metals available, the only 4 of which you just mentioned, which are incredibly scarce (hence the term PRECIOUS metals) is just pure retardation.

I like how precious metals have been the means of exchange since recorded history and anon comes along and goes 'its a boomer meme lol'

>>24795853
>you can't just make a BTC clone and thusly inflate crypto.
Absolutely you can. You meant to say you can't just make a BTC clone and thusly inflate BTC. Crypto as a whole does get inflated when you can do the same thing with LTC, DOGE, and tons of other alts that you can with BTC. They're functionally the same, one just has bigger mindshare.

>>24796389
>Or does it get recognized as an inferior early version of a cryptocurrency and get abandoned for Monero or some other altcoin with lower fees and faster transactions?

If this happens, than the whole crypto world is worthless: if BTC gets replaced because of its limitations, than what's preventing the next crypto king to be dethroned for the same reason and so on?

>>24796556
Yes, my bad

>>24796452
>I've never been to this neighbourhood before, Halligan.

>>24796593
you have just cracked a massive whole in the whole crypto logic.

if bitcoin is a technological proposition, and its technology makes it a good means of exchange, why wont capital abandon bitcoin for a crypto of superior technology, so and so forth?

it is irrelevant anyway, because its technological features, regardless of how sophisticated, do not suddenly make something that is digital, physical, and therefore, able to be a store of value and means of exchange.

>>24796190
To make you see how stupid your reasoning is:

who gives a fuck about the scarcity of something thats worthless? paper money(fiat) has zero utility beyond being a 'means of exchange', which it cant be, because its not a commodity. only a commodity can be a store of value and therefore a means of exchange.

blockchain and smart contracts will change the world. paper money(fiat) however is a ponzi scheme, and will never be a means of exchange, let alone THE means of exchange.
So I guess we should just remove money.

>>24796593
>BTC gets replaced because of its limitations, than what's preventing the next crypto king to be dethroned for the same reason and so on?
Yeah, that's likely to happen. Not just possible, likely. I doubt we'll ever settle on *the* technological solution for digital currency.

>>24796706
>you have just cracked a massive whole in the whole crypto logic.
Not really.
>if bitcoin is a technological proposition, and its technology makes it a good means of exchange, why wont capital abandon bitcoin for a crypto of superior technology, so and so forth?
They will. But don't imagine that cycle happening on the order of days, imagine it as how long market paradigms last. Reserve currencies usually last a couple hundred years, no reason for BTC not to when we went to the trouble of using physical gold for so long in the past. Ultimately the market will decide and (I say this with some sense of irony) that's a good thing.

>>24796823
I don't see the problem: fiat is worthless. Propped up only by the faith in the stability of the economy of the US, which is a quickly crumbling illusion

>>24795543

>>24796676

>>24796462
Yeah I know?

>>24795730
He has predicted a crash every year since 1998.

>>24795543
Anyone can make a copy of Facebook, Instagram, or Twitter. Anyone can make a copy.of tcp/ip.

>>24796823
>who gives a fuck about the scarcity of something thats worthless? paper money(fiat) has zero utility beyond being a 'means of exchange', which it cant be, because its not a commodity. only a commodity can be a store of value and therefore a means of exchange.

correct, this is why the USD for example, supposedely being the 'strongest' fiat money, has lost over 95% of its purchasing power since 1914.

>>24796823
>blockchain and smart contracts will change the world. paper money(fiat) however is a ponzi scheme, and will never be a means of exchange, let alone THE means of exchange.
>So I guess we should just remove money.

correct.

>>24796823
>who gives a fuck about the scarcity of something thats worthless? paper money(fiat) has zero utility beyond being a 'means of exchange', which it cant be, because its not a commodity. only a commodity can be a store of value and therefore a means of exchange.
>blockchain and smart contracts will change the world. paper money(fiat) however is a ponzi scheme, and will never be a means of exchange, let alone THE means of exchange.
>So I guess we should just remove money.

>>24795543
People counterfeit gold all the time

>>24797069
if you can find a source of counterfeit gold that can reliably pass as genuine please let us all know

>>24796706
Oh, thank god I'm not going insane then.

Let me sak you something regarding the second part of your message, though:

wouldn't the utility of BTC make it worth something? By that I mean, wouldn't the physical network of people (eventually, if ever) using it make it valuable? Just like Facebook being used by millions of people makes it valuable, even though it's only a web page.

Just like gold trades at a premium (compared to the price it would be traded at, had it been used only for jewelry, industry etc.) because of its role as store of value, couldn't BTC be worth more than nothing because of its use as a convenient medium of exchange? - Granted, this all would hinge on BTC retaining its brand and it not encountering any technological setbecks on the road to adoption

>>24797293
*and, let me add if its price fluctuation could be smoothed out by mainstream adoption

>>24797025
Yes and that's happening now. Remember livejournal, tumblr, and myspace? They got replaced. The big social media companies are also in the process of pissing off users and driving them to their competitors.

>>24795763
a shitcoin, even if it is 100% the same as bitcoin in the protocol, is not bitcoin because it doesn't have the network or the users. i can start a website called FACELOOK and it'll have all the same features as Facebook, does that mean Facebook is worthless?

>>24797293
facebook is 'valuable' because of its utility which is that it allows many people to socially interact digitally in a way that they otherwise would not be able to (theres much more to it than this obviously)

its also valuable because its a company which generates a lot of profit from its operations.

so ultimately we can say facebook has value as a social network utility.

bitcoin attempts to have value as a means of exchange, but anyone who has a firm grasp of basic economics (very few people) realise that it can never be a store of value and therefore never be a means of exchange. bitcoin can 'connect' as many people as possible, it still wont make it a store of value.

>>24795763
Yes and that's like arguing the amount of atoms is infinite. But not every atom is gold, not every crypto is bitcoin.
>>24796058
explain, there is a sateillite with btc protocol in the exosphere (or whatever sphere I'm too lazy to look it up now)
>>24796190
>worthless
what is value? ask yourself that. The answer is demand divised by supply, scarcity means limited supply, in other words a limited divisor. Less supply = higher value. Gold's value doesn't come from it's utlity as it can be replaced in almost any aspect it's chemically good for and the ones where it isn't replacable aren't in high demand.
If you reaaally think about it, everything in life is a ponzi scheme, the one who gets in first, wins.

>>24796931
>>24797044
Literally discussing the future of money here
>>24796676

>>24797356
the thing with Bitcoin is that there's no idiot CEO with biases and political leanings. no one can be banned from Bitcoin. more users are joining the network year after year. the bigger it gets, the stronger it grows. as long as it keeps doing what it's been doing for 10+ years, don't see that changing.

miners can collectively decide to change the protocol so that the supply is increased.
this will require no more than a straightforward change in the code.
this will create a fork and one could say that the blockchain using the original protocol will still be considered bitcoin, the other being called bitcoinXYZ. but if the majority of hashing power accepts the new protocol, the "brand" might actually move to the new blockchain.

>>24796551
Look at this coping boomer

>>24797447
>If you reaaally think about it, everything in life is a ponzi scheme, the one who gets in first, wins.

well i cant disagree with this desu.

but golds value not coming from its utility? your wrong anon. the ONLY reason why gold isn't used widely as an industrial commodity is because its so scarce, and therefore not economically viable. Instead we chosen to hoard gold for other purpouses reserved for luxury, and ultimately decided that as a commodity, precious metals make for an excellent means of exchange. why? the store of value principal, which dictates that for something to be a reliable means of exchange there must be confidence in the expectation that there will always be demand for it, yet not too much demand to enourage hording. its only natural then that the force of the free market over thousands of years have deemed gold and silver to be the means of exchange.

you claim that gold is interchangeable with other elements. is it? once again, silver is primarily used industrially instead of gold because it has the same chemical qualities(superior in some cases, in-fact) yet is much more abundant (relative to gold).

limited supply DOES NOT make something valuable because the other side of the equation, demand, has to either remain the same or increase. my nail clippings are in limited supply. but no one fucking wants them and never will, therefore i can reduce their supply to 0 and the existing stock wont skyrocket in value.

>>24796190
>which it cant be, because its not a commodity
the former does not imply the latter

>>24797115
No nigga I'm not a counterfeit expert, thats chink territory. They get away with it though. They also counterfeit military grade computer chips that have gone undetected and been installed in US military aircraft. Chinks are great at counterfeiting anything.

>>24797441
I might have to ponder on this a little further.

Anyway, just getting into Rothbard. Thought I'd start with A History of Money and Banking in the United States. I've also heard that his Anatomy of a State is available on Mises.org. Do you have any suggestion where I should start?

>>24797635
in the barter system, you exchange goods directly for other goods.

in the indirect exchange system, we exchange goods for ANOTHER GOOD which we then in turn exchange for the other goods we want

the only way this all works viably and sustainable is if this interim 'good', the means of exchange, is the most superior good of them all(goods referring to the physical assets which form the basis of any economy)

i recommend familiarising yourself with basic economics before you make your next shitcoin investment

>>24795543
yes, bitcoin is meaningless without the bitcoin network

>>24796414
There are only 8 precious metals on the periodic table.

>>24797740
ah, kind of like what xrp’s intended us is LOL

>>24797479
Look up the blocksize debate, bitcoin has plenty of stupid leadership issues.

>>24797707
Always start with the Greeks, anon.

Someone should tell Peter that anyone can have a Gold clone. Tin, for example. What happens when people wake up and start hoarding tin? Gold will be screwed. Someone should tell Peter.

>>24797479
bitcoin just hasnt gotten big enough for it the be an issue yet.
it has been seen that bitcoin can be seized (silkroad), but so far it has not been censored except in the specific case of traced coins from hacks. miners can theoretically censor wallete they do not like

>>24798068
>it has been seen that bitcoin can be seized (silkroad)
Technically, while it was seized, it wasn't seized in the sense that fiat bank accounts are frozen without consent. They captured Ulbricht with his laptop decrypted and logged into the silk road website with private keys loaded for the hot wallet. Once they had the private keys for the hot wallet, it was as though they'd caught him with physical cash in his pocket and took it when they arrested him.

Bitcoin still cannot be seized without the private keys. Let this be a lesson to you all that you should keep most of your crypto on an encrypted cold wallet and just memorize your seed phrase and decryption key and leave it at that.

>>24797740
Counterpoint: Reality.
I can buy shit with BTC, making it a means of exchange. Time will tell if it has staying power. The market doesn't care about your personal philosophy.
>the only way this all works viably and sustainable is if this interim 'good', the means of exchange, is the most superior good of them all
The only way it works is if people continue to desire the thing that we use as a medium of exchange. Your position is ideological, not fact based.

>>24798154
a store of value retains purchasing power, therefore the best means of exchange is the one that is the best store of value

time has already told us what is the best medium of exchange and it will continue to do so

>>24798398
What will happen to gold's store of value if alien's reveal themselves with their ability to mine every existing resource in the galaxy?

>>24798141
>bitcoin cant be seized without private keys
well yes, but the way of getting private keys is not that much different from seizing physical gold or cash or stoppibg interntional money transfer

>>24798479
What if aliens have their own supply of Bitcoin? We know the universe is infinite, and so there must be intelligent alien life out there who must have their own cryptocurrencies, and are mining their own supply of crypto; that which is far more advanced - more private, better speculations, better uses, better stores of value.

Is "Asteroid mining" code for aliens mining crypto? Once we encounter aliens in the next few years, they will dump on us with alien crypto. Their supply of crypto is literally infinite. And this won't be Bitcoin 2.0, this will be Bitcoin 10.0 they dump us with. All our crypto would go to $0. Especially as Elon Musk takes us beyond the solar system in 2030.

>>24798398
Time has also shown that things change, sometimes radically. For the upcoming 100 years my bet is on BTC over gold. Good luck with your shinies that barely outperform the dollar.

>>24798479
Amazingly retarded argument. If you live in a post-scarcity society, like these aliens of yours, then you don't need an economy and therefore you don't need money

>>24798525
>Good luck with your shinies that barely outperform the dollar.

...right

>>24798548
>not adjusting for inflation

>>24798506
Actually it's very different if you aren't an idiot like poor Ulbricht. Physical items exist in reality, and as a human with human limitations there's a limited number of places you can hide something and organizations like the government have the resources to check everywhere. Private keys, should they be memorized, cannot be extracted from you ever (barring torture but there's ways around that too). One of the best things about bitcoin is that private keys can't be confiscated from you if they're stored in your flesh memory, and you can cross borders with them entirely free from the concern of them getting stolen.

Now, if you're a fool who stamped your seed phrase on steel... Good fucking luck explaining that when you get searched at the airport or border crossing.

>>24798579
so they torture you or otherwise coerce you to give up the keys
you make it sound like its hard for governement to put pressure on a person

Limited not-centralized supply is the only way to protect your hard work earnings. Check Mona Finance vision: https://mona-finance.medium.com/introduction-reasoning-ad6a7f043610

F*ck fiat currencies

>>24798577
...right

>>24798637
well...
https://goldprice.org/inflation-adjusted-gold-price.html

>>24798518
You can't copy BTC without making the copy a new shitcoin.
The supply of true BTC will remain forever while the amount of shiny rocks you get is infinite.

>>24798535
It's not a post scarcity society. They will just bring their own cheap resource to trade with us for services.
Seeing as gold is currently a recognized store of value it makes sense to use it to trade with us.
What this will cause however is an extreme inflation of gold's value and make it less valuable than water.

>>24796190
Bitcoin has the utility of not needing banks for storage and transactions that can be done digitally. That’s an advantage it has over other things. I have most of my investment in link bc of it has further advantages for its role in smart contracts. But bitcoin isnt a ponzi unless you call all currency a ponzi. Saying btc is worthless is just false

>>24795543
Obviously not, but with every fork, the main thing gets less valuable, even if the forked chain only has a tiny mc. Gold unaffected

>>24795853
BTC doesn't need to take on the entire world economy.
It can safely exist as a hedge against localized societal collapse. Just from its uses in Venezuela and Africa BTC has proven itself to be an instrument of stability and survival. Doesn't need to be anything more than it already is. Doesn't need to replace gold, it can peacefully coexist with it.
Other crypto currencies can fill utility gaps / entire new markets neither gold, cash nor BTC can interface with. AI micro-agents subcontracting micro-tasks in the $0.0000001 price range, exchanges between them governed by smart contracts so efficient that humans can participate as nothing more involved than a stakeholder. A billion financial transfers per second, all of them combined costing less than a penny in fees, secured by cryptography just secure enough to make hacking it a net negative financial decision. An actual inorganic biosphere breathing and swarming with activity, a post-human economy.
Bitcoin won't and can't fuel that. It can, however, save you from starvation when your shithole is collapsing and you must flee. And that's valuable as well.

>>24796389
You could be right but cryptocurrency, like social media, has a value that tied to usage. Btc would have been replaced already with fast currencies but more people hold btc and more places accept btc than other things. It has a huge first mover advantage so i think it would be hard to dethrone it completely. Not impossible

>>24798637
According to this
https://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm
$1000 in jan 1970 has the same buying power as $6800 now.
So correct me if I'm wrong, but if you invested $1000 in 1970, where the price was about $250, you would have 4 ounces.
4 ounces today are worth roughly $7400.
That's only 7400-6800 = $600 you actually gained, or 60% of your initial investment. Over 50 years. That seems pretty shitty for a 50 year investment

>>24799056
Also $600 today is like $88 in 1970.
So it's $1000 invested for a return of $88 after 50 years?

>>24798631
It's not hard for them to put pressure on you, but you can avoid them if you're careful. Avoiding losing your keys to torture is as simple as using multi-sig. Obviously you can't really avoid the torture itself but you can prevent yourself from being able to give up your keys.

And keep in mind, the government doesn't want to actually get violent with anyone. The public backlash usually makes it not worth it (Waco, Ruby Ridge, Dorner, Bundy Ranch). They'd much rather just freeze your assets by sending an order to your bank and then arrest you at the airport when the airline doesn't let you on your plane because your passport has a travel hold on it. Security through obscurity isn't ideal but it's better than nothing, so you should make it a goal to not antagonize governments that can fuck with you, while you're in their range (Snowden learned this the hard way and got very lucky Russia let him stay there). Manning got caught and wound up in solitary for years and I'm pretty sure was brainwashed into becoming tranny as a joke by the spook agencies.

>>24799056
>>24799372
Goldbugs will tell you gold is money, not an investment, so you shouldn't expect returns for holding it until the great collapse when we all start eating each other and people with gold (somehow) become kings and everyone just listens to them.

>>24798856
That's also my view and also why I don't anticipate holding BTC for the next few centuries. I'll probably diversify at some point into Monero and some other altcoin and also into tokens with utility like LINK and PNK. And of course I'll eventually get some physical PM and real estate, the usual diversification strategies. But in the near term, BTC all the way. There's no sign that another altcoin is going to dethrone BTC. The sign I'm looking for is widespread adoption for point of sale transactions. When I can go to starbucks and spend cryptocurrency directly, that cryptocurrency (which will not be BTC) will probably be well on its way to taking over the #1 spot.

>>24798782
>Obviously not, but with every fork, the main thing gets less valuable
Only if it splits the community, and only if it does so in the sense that a community member abandons BTC for the fork rather than remaining involved in both. BTC has never been significantly hurt by a fork and it's had several.

>>24797596
>you claim that gold is interchangeable with other elements. is it?
You misread that. I claimed the argument :" there are 9000 shitcoins" is like saying there are 176 elements.

What utlity does gold have except in the electronics sector and as you already mentioned most properties of these are the same with copper and silver. That is not where the value of gold stems from.

I agree with the last point, limited supply is not enough, demand has to rise, and it will with crypto. Why? It's money with a purpose, it's "smart", fast, logical. And in bitcoins case, it's a first mover and the outlet presssure valve for the inflation the monetary fiat system is creating. There is a real incentive to "escape" to btc (or crypto in general) from fiat, and that's what we're seeing with the big firms investing.

>>24799700
if I mint shitcoins with the same properties as bitcoins, I'm making the same fucking thing. That's not like comparing one periodic table element to another with different properties. It's like comparing gold coins minted by the united states to gold coins minted by south africa. it's the same thing, you just have brand loyalty.

>>24800022
Not the same thing because it's a new ledger, not the actual bitcoin ledger. Remember, bitcoin isn't actually a coin, it is transactions recorded securely in a distributed ledger.

Now, if everyone you want to transact with is willing to use your new ledger, that's all well and good. But if not, that's where network effects and first mover advantage gives bitcoin a HUGE advantage over your new ledger.

>>24799476
exactly they can make life extremely difficult for you until you cave a strike a deal.
this is basically how its done most of the time right now

>>24798699
Many commodities have been used as the means of exchange throughout history, but the free market has determined Gold and Silver suit our purposes for a means of exchange best.

Crypto currency fails as a means of exchange as it is not a commodity with any utility in and of itself, therefore cannot be a store of value. Despite its advantages over commodities in a digital sense, it is still expensive, slow, and not easy to use.

>>24800190
you just need to rally enough pumpers to get your ledger off the ground and once it is established and people are using it, you have just successfully inflated the supply of shitcoins. BTCs head start is only going to carry it so far... we may be at the end of the line already.

>>24795543
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqMl2gKaZLg

>>24800397
Yeah, but what I'm saying is they can't just take your shit without your consent, which gives you huge leverage to deal with them making you miserable. It's the difference between having coin flip odds and 0% odds of escaping with your money intact.

>>24800500
>you just need to rally enough pumpers to get your ledger off the ground and once it is established and people are using it, you have just successfully inflated the supply of shitcoins.
Yes, that's how Litecoin and Dogecoin work.
>BTCs head start is only going to carry it so far... we may be at the end of the line already.
Extremely unlikely. Institutions are only just now getting big into bitcoin and they're certainly not going to ape into altcoins using institutional funds (with a bunch of legal requirements for due diligence). Bitcoin is about a decade ahead of all competitors in gaining widespread acceptance.

Why does it have to be all one or all another? Why black and white? I believe gold and crypto can work together against a common enemy of fiat .
I hold various crypto. I also hold gold. I also hold AWG and AWX.

>Arguing BTC is not a valid mean of exchange and defending gold as a instead.
Look, I love gold, but it is shit as money. It is way too inconvenient, which is partially the reason it stopped being used in the first place. It is better than fiat as a store of value, but fiat is way cheaper to handle and trade with.
BTC, kr at least the blockchain in general, has all the pros that gold has, without the cons, while, on top of that, enabling new possibilities like smart contracts.
It is the definitive kind of money (money, not currency), and ultimately what will make humanity ascend to new heights.

To wrap it up (reddit spacing so it looks neat):
>fungible
>durable
>divisible
>portable
>scarce
>store of value
>PROGRAMMABLE

And the cherry at the top is that all of the properties of money are more powerful on crypto than on gold.

>>24800883
Sorry, at the end, not just better than gold, but any other currency I know of.

Did you see Mona Finance already? They are building quantity limited supply ecosystem. It will be something huge.

Read more about at https://mona-finance.medium.com/

another thing no one seems to talk about ever is the unit of measure. measuring silver in oz for small transactions and measuring gold in oz for larger transactions makes sense because it is a weight that can be carried and comes at a small volume that you can fit in your pocket or in a coin purse or whatever and it stores the appropriate value to the medium of choice (gold vs silver). also a measurement can be established by a government such as a "dollar" and you can have "quarter dollars" and such.

the unit of measure for bitcoin is arbitrary. i can only measure large transactions in bitcoin without having to resort to a calculator, and on the other end of the spectrum, one "satoshi" is less than a tiny fraction of a penny. I dont even know what it is worth. If I have a million satoshis, am i rich or poor? i dont even fucking know. why is it necessary to be divisible to such a small number? wont we need a new unit of measure for bitcoin to be viable? what the hell will i ever be able to do with 1 satoshi? even with bitcoin at 20k, its worth nothing. and what the hell can i do with 1 quarter bitcoin? thats 5000 dollars. if i want to buy groceries, do i say that i pay 400 thousand satoshis or 3 one thousandths of one bitcoin?

go ahead and call me a boomer.

retards and degens have done over 100x with altcoins like Base while Peter keeps holding the ultimate shitcoin and is happy with a 10x gain

>>24801190
1 BTC = 1000 mBTC (millis) = 1,000,000 uBTC (micros) = 100,000,000 satoshis.

Your argument is dumb. 1 milli is already about $20, 1 micro is about 2 cents. 50 satoshis is a penny. It's no more confusing than how dollars are split into halves, quarters, dimes, nickels, and pennies.

>>24800651
you dont have any leverage. they can babysit you and your wallet forever. either you move it and they get you or you dont and its gone anyway

>>24801369
ok so i can go to the grocery store and see that the cost is about 3.5 millibitcoin or whatever and say that it seems fair, but it seems like they can charge customers for all these extra satoshis that i am not going to want to worry about, but that add up over many transactions.

>>24795543
>No other element has the properties of gold. But anyone can make a copy of any cryptocurrency.
you literally cant make another bitcoin. you can make other cryptos but bitcoins network effect is still number one

>>24801190
>what the hell will i ever be able to do with 1 satoshi?

Satoshi Nakamoto likely had the Japanese Yen in mind when creating the currency, so think 100 Satoshi ≈ 1 Dollar

>>24801835
Nah, basic free market price competition will keep prices at appropriate levels. People drive ten miles to get 2 cents cheaper gas, it'll be fine.

>>24801735
I don't even know what you're talking about anymore. Babysit your wallet? What the fuck are you talking about?

>>24795543
ITT a bunch of fucking retards. People are talking about branding, marketing, etc... it has nothing to do with that shit.

If you copy BTC, do you get their network? No. The value comes from the network that BTC has created. There is also value in that BTC has created the longest txn history.

>>24795543
>one of the worst performing funds
>Trusting this guy

>>24800883
This. People don't even realize what a huge step this will be for humanity. It will completely change how we think about money and value.
Especially because the idea of decentralization can be applied to anything not just money. Chainlink realized that oracles can be decentralized to verify data. Kleros realized that decisions can be decentralized so that they are objective. DeFi Governance Token like Uni and Aave realized that even running a company can be completely decentralized.

Soon decentralized macro organizations and even whole decentralized governments will appear and they will out compete their centralized competitors because the huge HUGE advantage about decentralization is that it always naturally evolves into the most effective self sufficient manner. The evolution of decentralized networks is inevitable. Similar to how mushrooms spread and evolve

>>24802566
>decentralized government

Nigger, what are you even talking about? Put down the crack pipe

This would simply mean someone created a bitcoin fork. For this to actually hurt bitcoins value you’d need a significant amount of users, node operators, and miners to be convinced this “new” bitcoin would be more valuable in terms of future adoption and cost to switch operations.

In short, this new bitcoin would be incompatible with the current protocol and require its own chain, thus keeping the stock to flow ratio of bitcoin intact

>>24802708
See how decentralized platforms operate. Imagine that on a scale of a government

>>24802375
check to see if youve moved your btc from your wallet and trace it

>>24801190
You’re not a boomer, but you might have contributed the most retarded reply I’ve ever seen on biz. I’m genuinely confused by this
>decimals bad! Number too small! Calculators hard!

>>24802912
What the hell even is a decentralized government?
Government is by its very nature a central authority. A decentralized government is a non-government. That doesn't even make sense.

This is how you spot bubbles: zelous mania driven spread of a religion. In this case the religion of "decentralization", an empty buzzword that can be applied to everything

>>24796333
>Gold is no more safe than any rock that was popular with some generation but that fell out of favor with the next generation. it has happened a thousand times. Gold is not gonna last.
t. you thousands of years ago

>>24795601
But Bitcoin is an investment, people invest in Bitcoin because they think someday it will be used as a currency. He thinks this won't happen. So price doesn't really matter, doesn't makes Peter wrong

>>24800404
It's funny you ignore the true history of the world and why gold become a reserve of value.
The reason BTC would still remain useful in this scenario is because aliens can't produce it outside of mining it.
As for gold the reason it became a store of value is because that's why humans were created by our gods.
To mine gold for their planet's environmental system.

When has the first technology been the best one? Go ahead, I'm waiting.

>>24795543
>it wouldn't be "the" Bitcoin. What do you guys think?
You can copy gold too but you can’t make it Au. You can copy BTC but you can’t just take the hashpower. It’s a phenomenon how the older you get the more narrow minded you become to
New ideas. I wonder why this is. I need to research to make sure I don’t succumb to such fate.

>>24804639
its extremely simple. the older you get, the more the future doesn't matter for you since you won't be in it. thus anything that will be more powerful in the future is a threat to your current power. its a self preservation instinct

>>24804639
Nigger, I'm 22

When is OP going to quit lying. He knows sent is the true microcap gem.

>>24805296
I wasn’t talking to you directly as being narrow minded but rather the gold boomer Pete Schiff.

>>24795543
if you copy paste bitcoin code you connect to bitcoin nodes
if you make a new proof of work chain, your hashrate is near 0 and you have 0 security
it's that simple

>>24795763
if you fork bitcoin or make a new chain, you essentially have 0 hashrate, the value you can transact inside your chain is essentially 0
your new coin is worthless

>>24803143
i know you dont care, but i think there will be pushback from a normie population that is far less autistic than the bitcoin early adopters. when their chicken tendies that cost $11.98 now need to cost 0.62999mBTC. it just seems unnecessarily precise to me. like you cant actually do anything with the last digit. especially when you consider transaction fees.

>>24803699
Shiny yellow rock go out of style quick!
Grug inwest in bronze for tool
People need bronze for tool forever

Who cares what some kike says about Shiney rocks lol

Fuck crypto

>>24801190
>>24805941
Anon here actually does have a point
It's called unit bias and it's the preference of people to want to use things that come in whole numbers or that can be rounded to whole numbers

While this is a relatively minor problem in the grand scheme of things, it is a problem of sorts and there are many ways to fix it
You could overlay some local naming or numbering system aka one dollaridoo = X arbitrary amount of BTC, measure in mBits which is gay, or you could measure in the base amount, that being satoshis

I don't think we'll actually have to deal with this problem though BECAUSE of bitcoin gets to and stays above $100k long term, one sat will = $0.001
And if Bitcoin gets to $1m..... One sat = One cent

And even though satoshi is probably the gayest name imaginable, we already have a good shorthand for it, "sats", which fits into english perfectly and doesn't interfere with any existing word (except the past tense of "sit", but the two don't grammatically collide so it's fine)

>>24806136
that's a nigger tier gains lmao

>>24806136
A whole 170% woweeeeee.

Dude BTFO. You’re taking up the time of those who have seen 10,000-36,000% gains. I know BTC bros sitting on multi million PERCENT gains.

170% holy shit it’s like I’m playing cards with my sisters kids or something.