/biz/ - Business & Finance

How do we do this for Crypto?

>just move to Gibraltar bro
fuck you Gibraltar anon its not that easy

This is common knowledge, anon.
The caribbean is famous for its tax-free islands. You can even get citizenship if you open a company there.

>>24602316
You emigrate to tax haven before you liquidate.

>>24602181
omg this is why we need one world government

>>24602316
Not quite sure but don’t think you pay tax on crypto in Portugal. You still get raped with taxes if your income is high, though.

>>24602379
Pretty soi take, but this shit is going to get clamped down on in the coming years through other means.

>>24602316
Start a crypto holding company. Accidentally send your stack to the holding company wallet. They write it off as a gift. You write it off as a loss. Then follow the guide

>>24602347
Do 'cayman island banks report to the Feds?

>>24602181
jews

>>24602181
Ok but how do you spend that 50B (buying property etc) back in your home country

>>24602379
Natsoc is the best solution though. If the US was a natsoc state then Amazon's assets would simply be seized and control turned over to an employee union then Jeff Bezos would be given a televised beating on the lawn of the white house to discourage similar kike behaviour.

>>24602392
living in other eu country with high taxes for cryptos, im gonna make atleast half million in next bullrun, should i just pay my taxes or trust portugal authorities not stealing all my money with jewish tricks or is it actually just that easy to move there without any problems and live year or something before cashing out

>>24602457
No but if the feds start asking them questions about you they have to comply

>>24602457
Dunno but for most people this doesn't matter because you're only due tax as a resident. The US is the exception that tries to tax non-resident citizens (like my wife) and the only solution to that is to renounce US citizenship.

>>24602512
Where do they not have to comply?

>libertarians will defend this

This doesn't really work these days. Trust me. If you people like you retards are aware of a tax optimization plan, then it's already no good. Furthermore, most countries in the OECD are blacklisting income derived or sent to tax havens.

>>24602181
I thought this was stopped after governments went after tax havens during the recession?

>>24602181

What’s the incentive for Cayman Islands or any other tropical shithole country to make their tax rate 0 so they can have American companies based there on paper? What’s in it for them?

>>24602618
more jobs, more $$$$ going into the country, etc, etc.

>>24602618
Politicians are probably lobbied there.

>>24602534
Look up Vanuatu

>>24602181
>legal tax avoidance is almost universally considered immoral by the general public
Is this a psyop or are people actually this retarded?

>>24602846
They are.
Just look at coronahoax. Look at how the sheeple obey the State.

>>24602316
>>24602330
>>24602347
>>24602435
Self directed IRA. Couple of thousand to set up and you can roll over your whole account. This would be agreat time, just roll into your favorite projects and hodl for 5-10 years.

You will need to create a business for your self directed IRA. It isn't that hard. You can even automate your reporting if yo want to pay an extra couple of hundred dollars a years. I legit use Broad Financial in NYC. Dudes are Jewish as fuck but they do good work.

>>24602618
Used to be you had to set up an office in the island, even if it was just one person in a room. Governments would also get a bit of money from fees and licences, such as registration fees and banking fees. It would have cost the company tens of thousands a year to stay on the island, but that was still far better than the millions in taxes in the US.

>>24602822
They still have to be FATCA compliant from what I'm reading.

>>24602181
Where is Jeffy B's shell company in the Cayman Islands?

Or just trade with no KYC st 50x.com

>>24602846
It is immoral though. Especially by a company like Amazon that tangibly benefits from tax-funded infrastructure.

>>24603585
Wrong. There can no moral demand be made from an action which was itself immoral.

From the fact that the state taxes people, which is immoral, cannot be a moral demand made against anybody else.

From the fact that the slaver whips slave A, cannot be a moral demand be made against slave B.

>>24603635
The problem with your premise is that you're stating taxation is immoral, which it isn't. So your argument falls apart at the first hurdle. Also it's incredibly naive, dunning-kruger, hackneyed bullshit and you need to go back to /pol

I wouldn’t mind paying taxes if the country I lived in was actually using them in a resourceful manner, only in a perfect world.
I refuse to let Uncle Sam rape my gains to feed Jamal & his nigglets.

>>24602560
>OECD

id rather spend my gains on thai hookers anyway

>>24603708
It’s immoral to me. Checkmate.

>>24603708
> The problem with your premise is that you're stating taxation is immoral, which it isn't.
If you don't understand Hoppe'ean Argumentation Ethics, then I don't have time to teach it to you.

>>24603747
That's fine, there's no point discussing it really since I'd have to explain so many basic concepts to you just for you to understand how I'm refuting you. Been down this road with "tax = bad" poltards before. I at least hope you're consistent and also consider it immoral when crypto exchanges charge you a fee on transactions, the same way the government taxes transactions you make with their fiat currency.

>>24603833
>If you don't blindly accept libertard meme arguments, then I don't have the intellectual capacity to justify them
Fixed

>>24602379
Kys

>>24602379
omg this is why we need a fucking purge

>>24603837

>just shut up and bankroll an antiwhite communist regime lmao

>>24602846
it's only immoral in the sense that these companies not paying taxes forces the average american to foot the bill. if nobody had to pay taxes nobody would care. if everyone paid their taxes nobody would care. me having to pay taxes to the fucking IRS is evil, but i still want to decapitate jeff bezos for paying $0 taxes on his gorillion dollar company

>>24603946
Nope. You're just trying to move goalposts by claiming I support the US government or think what they do is moral, which it obviously isn't. The argument is whether or not the concept of taxation is immoral, which you can't prove without parroting meme "it's just bad!" libertard talking points.

>>24604060
I'm not moving the goalposts, its my first post in this discussion.

Anyway, we can argue through it but in the end it comes down to whether democracy is good or bad. When a brainwashed mob is gaslighting the fuck out of you and assigning you original sin and the responsibility for all the ails of the world for the color of your skin, it ain't good.

>>24604060
Taxes in and of themselves aren’t immoral. Taxes that fund the destruction of the taxpayer’s way of life are. I’ll gladly pay to pave the roads and whatnot. Not paying to fund a bunch of anti white stuff

>>24604161
>Taxes in and of themselves aren’t immoral.
Cool so we agree. Why are you trying to argue with me then?

>>24602846
crabs in a bucket.
>you have the means to avoid tax while i get raped by my government every paycheck? fuck you, tax avoidance is immoral

>>24604156
Again, completely irrelevant to the discussion you entered. I'm not arguing to justify the behaviour of the be US or any other government. I'm talking about the legitimacy of the concept of taxation.

>>24604359
I don't like paying tax and would avoid it it entirely if I could (I dodge a fair bit of it, legally and illegally) but that doesn't mean taxation is immoral or that according it isn't immoral. I'm just capable of admitting I do an stuff that's not ethically. Which most 4chan autists are completely incapable of.

This entire thread is useless, nobody has a clue when it comes to tax tricks regarding crypto.

Crypto can't be compared to fiat at all, you can't just build a crypto company and get it out that way.

>>24604366

>democratic mob decides it hates you for reasons
>democratic mob decides that all your money should be taken away and redistributed to another group because of reasons
>all of the value of your labor is used to implement policies you don't agree with that are counter to your interests

This isn't limited to the USA.

>>24603720
this

>>24604459
Once again irrelevant. Are you capable of making an argument against the concept taxation outside the narrative of shitty government behaviour?

>>24602316
ask Sergey Nazarov of Chainlink

>>24602846
It's the fact that wageslaves have to give 10% but amazon billionaire pays 0%. Taxation is theft but the above is unacceptable.

>>24604607
>Taxation is theft
It's not though, it's the governments currency and by using it you're consenting to taxation whether you realise it or not.

>>24602476
Cayman company lends the money to domestic company.

>>24604647
Kike argumentation

>>24604677
Don't be a crybaby

>>24604677
Not since 2009.

Why is one is Bezo's eyes always half closed?

>>24604647
Except that the government force you to use their shitty currencies. There is a monopoly on money.

>>24604459
It's called democracy. Funny how that works, ain't it? Everything is cool until decision you don't agree with gets voted in.

>>24604811
Yes, and its flawed. Thats my point.

>>24604803
Damn, that's rough. Only if you could opt out by using seamless, trust-minimized currency available 24/7 for anyone with access to internet. Too bad there's no such thing...

>>24604751
It's logic. Society functions by agreements and contracts. I neither agreed to use the currency nor signed a contract, I am forced through coercion. It was forced upon me because I was born in this country to no generational wealth and my boomer forefathers succumbed to the jew, and taught their children acquiescent statements like you regurgitated. Kike.

>>24604832
And your solution?

>>24602379
this but unironically

anything short of global tax rules means the rich can just leave if they don't like how you're treating them. which means they will all always have legislators and enforcers by the balls.

Anyone with schemes like this is going to get absolutely fucked by BEPS. Heed these words Americans. YOU ARE ALWAYS LIABLE FOR TAX TO THE US GOVERNMENT. If your company has so much as a toe in US territory, either through you or when it was founded, the US government is just waiting patiently for the tax it'll make you pay. You think keeping it offshore means it's safe? That's their reserve, not yours. They know they'll get it when they need to, and that's why it's tolerated. If you incorporate in some zero tax island, you will get bitten sooner or later. There's a global push involving some extremely important players, and this will be clamped down on. When it is, everybody with offshored hoards will get their massive, massive US tax bill, end of story. You can't escape it. Even Apple conceded and repatriated their billions and paid tax on it last year. You think you're smarter than Apple's tax planners?

>>24604875
>Society functions by agreements and contracts

>>24604875
>I neither agreed to use the currency
You're doing exactly that every time you use it. No-one is coercing you to use dollars. Society has adopted it because it's convenient and efficient, but you're welcome to try and get by on bartering or monero. No-one is stopping you sand you wouldn't have to pay any tax on it.

>r*ddit explains taxes

Anytime normies try to discuss taxes with me I just smile and nod because they will believe some bullshit from facebook with Jeff Bezos' face slapped on it over a CPA

>>24603720
>Southern education
Let me guess, you own a pickup truck and believe roads always existed.

>>24604803
>Except that the government force you to use their shitty currencies
No they don't. You can use whatever form of currency you like. What you actually mean is society only accepts dollars, which they're entitled to do.

>>24604945
currency equivalents are currency in the eyes of the tax man. There is no escape, only degrees of stealth to delay the inevitable.

>>24604888
Yeah sure let's make the Earth one big jurisdiction, it's entirely feasible and everyone will get behind it! Even if it came to fruition there's absolutely no way this would kill the free market, r-right? People not being able to leave when you are mistreating them is good for mankind, right?

Anyways https://falkvinge.net/2017/03/01/a-simplified-taxless-state-a-proposal-part-1/

Tax came from the middle east after Arabs called it zakat. It's a fee that goes towards helping the poor and getting the country empire stronger

When j00s take tax to make the poor poorer and instigate wars left and right then I don't think it works to be honest

>>24602481
what you're describing is communism though, but i do agree it needs to happen

>>24604995
>currency equivalents are currency in the eyes of the tax man.
You sure about that? If you swap a TV for a phone you think the IRS will try and tax the transaction somehow? Or if you get paid for helping someone move furniture and he "pays" you by giving you a case of beer?

>>24602481
And America would be like soviet russia, another failed state without anything approaching capitalism

>>24604976
go back

>>24605092
Yeah just like the third reich... You realise VW was owned and ran by its union?

>>24602481
what board is this????

>>24604945
>try and get by
Society functions by agreements and contracts. How can I function when the rest of society (literal drooling retards) have things I need but are thoroughly under the thumb of the jew? I have no power, and your statements are worthless for this reason. It's like saying communism would work if (blah blah blah...) but arguments in a vacuum ignoring reality are retarded.

>>24605089
These are all forms of obfuscation. Bottom line, if there's profit of any kind, even in the change in value of an asset, legally, there's tax to be paid. The question is, what's detectable to the tax man, and what you can liquidate without being noticed.

>>24605171
Can't you see what a crybaby argument this is? Again, no-one is forcing you to use fiat currency but you want to anytime necessary it's inconvenient for you not to, bit then you don't want to abide by the rules on how that currency operates. You've basically got the same mentality as a welfare nigger at this point. No wonder you're a poorfag.

>>24602379
Fuck you you fat commie slob!

>>24604990
>>24604871
Oh, because of course if you trade and interchange those new currencies you are not taxed then ?
Oh yes it's not like there is KYC everywhere because of regulation and that any movement in, out, inter-currencies is taxed everywhere

>>24605089
>If you swap a TV for a phone you think the IRS will try and tax the transaction somehow?
because they still can't do it.
>he doesn't know about the coming CBDCs + Tokenization of absolutely everything to gain complete control over the economy
hello?

>>24605232
Here's your (((you)))

>>24605266
The KYC is so they can tax you when you change to fiat. No-one is being taxed purely on exchanges in crypto (yet).

>>24605232
You act like the use of fiat is a totally organic thing outside of any mecanisms of fear, control and subversion.
Funny.

>>24605266
>taxed everywhere
Get out of your hole. Plenty of places on Earth where the tax is nonexistent or you can dodge it. Hell even in US you can if you are prepared to make some lifestyle sacrifices.

>>24605338
>I have to use dollars because I'm scared
Most faggoty argument yet.

I'd be fine paying taxes except I know that my money would be pissed away in government bureaucracies, corrupt politicians' salaries, gibmedats for Sha'Kwanda and her 8 children, financial aid for college students who should be getting nothing so that tuition prices would fall, subsidized healthcare for poor fat pieces of shit who didn't take care of themselves, and drone strikes on children in the middle east. Avoiding taxes in Minecraft at this point is the moral thing to do.

>>24602181
it's called transfer pricing and you can't just do what this """"info""""graphic describes because there are regulations around transfer pricing which allow tax authorities to make their own adjustments. i don't know the regulations, other than it is very complex and involves a lot of strategy and compliance.

t. works in accounting and has the misfortune of helping prepare transfer pricing analyses for our corporate tax department

>>24605326
No, if you change BTC vs ETH, you need to declare it and pay taxes on it.

Also, what is the legitimacy of any of these rules declared by politicians ?
Let me guess your response:
>but because muh democracy so dont be crybaby
Except that I did not vote and never will.
A and B that collude to steal C (You know, "Democracy", mob rule) is not in any mean justified, I consented to absolutely nothing.

>>24605367
I'm already in Andorra. Considered "tax heaven", still >0%, still theft.

>>24605389
>I
I was talking about the whole society for generation, as a structure of incentives you faggot

>>24602181
EXACTLY WHAT CHAINLINK IS DOING

>>24605483
>No, if you change BTC vs ETH, you need to declare it and pay taxes on it.
First I've heard of that. Agree that's government overreach.
> was talking about the whole society for generation, as a structure of incentives you faggot
I know, but you're still wrong and it's still a faggot argument. That's not why people use fiat or why it became adopted as the defacto standard for transactions.

>>24605483
>I'm already in Andorra
Then what are you complaining about? Why do you actually declare? Face it, if you pay taxes on crypto it's only due to your own stupidity.

>>24605414
So you will never be fine being taxed because the structure of incentives of what we call "government" always lead to the same results (by definition)
It always end up devolving into tyranny

>>24605579
Only in the USA. Last time I checked Norway, Switzerland, New Zealand doesn't do any of that.

>>24605551
>First I've heard of that. Agree that's government overreach.
Crypto, Gold, Silver and in fact absolutely everything that can be used as a currency IS taxed.

>That's not why people use fiat or why it became adopted as the defacto standard for transactions.
They use it because of basic game theory, it's like taxes, if no ones pay we can instantly fuck these commies, but only if a big enough amount of people does it at the same time, therefore everyone just end up following in fear.
If you remove all the taxes/negative incentives/controls, you will see in no time the destruction of fiat (because of its relative inferiority), therefore no my argument is valid.

>>24605631
I was talking about a general devolution into tyranny. Think about it like a system, you have agents, and you have incentives.
Governments always grows and grows and grows, and then collapse, it's the cycle of any empire.

buy raw real estate

perpetually do improvements...use defunct companies and create phony invoice after phony invoice for brush and tree clearing

>>24605560
>Then what are you complaining about?
That the whole fucking world is a communist shithole.

>Why do you actually declare?
I "cheat" when I can,
Ever heard of deadly force, and "Oh you cheated so we are going to take everything from you" ?

>>24605955
>the whole fucking world is a communist shithole.
You really are a schizo, anon

>>24606130
Yes.

>>24602181
income tax should be zero, big companies will always be able to avoid taxes, income tax just hurts the poor and middle class

communist shill thread

glowing

execute cianiggers

>>24604359
Taxation is theft but you are put at a disadvantage if others avoid the burden you are forced under.
It's more to do with Amazon benefiting more than you do from the services that you are forced to pay for. That's a cuckold mentality and not much different to paying child support for Tyrone's muttspawn.

Is this actually doable for crypto or is it not worth it in practice?

>>24602481
A man can dream

>>24602481
>>24602515
go back nigger we're moloch worshippers haven't you realised it yet you braindead mutt

>>24602481
BASED

>>24602181
lol and this bold nigger supports blm and antifa topkek

>>24602181
this is why amazon is gonna get the french tickler from the senate. ecommerce will be forever changed by safex when they pick up the slack left behind

>>24602481
Assets would be stolen overnight because common = ownerless = 'free'. Gov set management would be incompetent and steal what's left, nobody would be able to make new amazon because lolregulations or fuckthatIcarewhentheyjustnationalizemywork, people will start starving and fleeing abroad.
Enjoy your new reich/union

OP's pic doesn't work in 2020 with BEPS and shit. Nowadays tax authorities want you to have substance in said tax havens and if you just have a postbox in the Cayman Islands that licenses out IP the tax man is going to rule it as illegitimate tax avoidance and fuck you up.

AMA about taxation and international tax avoidance, I've researched this subject for years and consider myself autistically knowledgable about this shit to the extent that I could probably outgame the tax man, but time will tell.

>>24608776
>I could probably outgame the tax man
How?

>>24602181
its where wealth inequality comes from

>>24602181
FUCK OFF SEC. I'm all in API3. Nobody can do this except billionaires. You also need years to set it up. Not gonna work for you. PAY YOUR TAXES,

>>24604647
>, it's the governments currency and by using it you're consenting to taxation whether you realise it or not.
Then why am I supposed to pay tax on anything to do with crypto even when it doesn't touch fiat?

>>24602913
How do i add my current crypto holdings to the self directed ira? It doesn’t seem like you can just add your current holdings, but instead have to deposit usd first to then buy crypto?

Burgers can move to Puerto Rico. $15k to get started and then all appreciated value of crypto and non crypto investments is 0%

>>24608741
Nice fictional narrative, neoconservacuck. Didn't happen like than it in any natsoc state though. Honestly you retards see the word "union" and roll out your cliche anti-communism arguments, which aren't even applicable here.

>>24602181
>US politicians constantly drag big tech into court for reddit non issues like censoring people on twitter
>They never, ever drag them for stealing billions of dollars from the taxpayer
America is a joke

>>24604647
The USD is 100% not "the governments currency"

>>24604811
that's why it sucks ass

>>24602316
Cash out in gold

>>24605166
/pol/ is no longer on /pol/, not even just on 4chan. /pol/ has leaked everywhere, to more and more domains of real life, for the very simple reason that it's always right

ITT: Seething Taxcucks

>>24610825

>>24603708
Income tax is FUCKING. THEFT.

>>24610825
Yes it is. Without the government it has zero value.

>people are only angry because they're too dumb to dodge taxes too
>you may argue that if the gov got more tax money form rich people, they would be able to enact more policies etc. but really, it would just go to their pockets.

>>24602316
>How do we do this for Crypto?
Move to Serbia ;)

>>24602499
EU is the worst economic area to hold any crypto, they'll tax you hard no matter where you go. I'll just hodle and then move to a third world shithole to live like a king.
t. yuropoor

>>24612736
lol wut? Most European countries have zero long term capital gains tax (of the top of my head Germany, France, Portugal, Austria Luxembourg, Slovakia). Some don't even have short-term capital gains tax.

>>24604802
Odin plucked out his right eye so that he could drink from Ymir's well water and acquire absolute knowledge. Occultists do something to their right eyes in order to represent their baptism in <insert bullshit occultist order here>.

>>24602181
Based

>>24602181
Eurofag here, any suggestions for doing the same with my crypto profit?

>>24604902
Based and tax-pilled

>>24614286
Portugal or Serbia. Hope you know an esoteric language.

>>24614286
>use tornado.cash or something to clean any trace of your "made it" wallet
>fund your own company that accepts crypto as payment.
>provide some bullshit service as consultant
>bill your "clients" in crypto
>"they" pay you in crypto
>now your "revenue" is taxed as sallary which is lower than capital gains tax
>???
>profit
What are the flaws on this plan?

>>24614339
Serbia is getting crypto tax as we speak, so no.

>>24612736
>>24614040
German here, and while our capital gains tax is shit (26%) crypto is free after 12 months of holding.

>>24602435
>gift money to company which you have a stake in and write it off as a loss
>doesn’t understand how capital contributions and base erosion laws work
GET ATTORNEYS ALL OF YOU
Tax avoidance is only worth it if you can afford to pay for the lawyer to give you some semblance of trying to do it right

>>24602403
yeah but only for you, not for pic related. He'll keep doing it unless you kill him.

Amazon uses Ireland for IP stashing, not the caymens. Makes a potential congressional tax free exception more likely if they ever want to bring the money back

>>24605709
Gold, silver and crypto are all tax-free after 12 months of holding in Germany.

>>24603837
Retarded false equivalency. I'm forced to pay taxes in dollars regardless of whether i benefit from tax funded services. When i use an exchange to trade, i am being provided a service.

>>24604871

>>24616252
The taxation is the price of using the fiat currency, the same way the trading fees are the price of using the exchange.

>>24616341
I don't have the legal option to not use the fiat currency if i reside in the US. I will literally be imprisoned if i refuse to, and killed if i resist imprisonment. I have the option to not trade on any particular exchange, or any exchange at all.

>>24616316
Can someone give me the completely non-pol rundown of this? Why do the "progressives" care and do the actually have a socially beneficial point, like could these stable coins be abused by the elite again or is it all a hoax? I only own Bitcoin and dont know much about the entire realm of all these shitcoins.
Please enlighten me as to what the political implications would be beyond the fact that the US financial/banking system would be outgunned by these new coins?

>>24605631
Nanny states are still tyranny.

>>24612734
Miss me with that shithole fag

>>24604976
>he doesn’t know about private roads and turnpikes
Let me guess, you own a Prius and think governments always existed.

bong here...let's say I liquidate my gains into a stablecoin (e.g. USDT) so at least it holds its value in fiat somewhat and becomes less volatile. I then move abroad to somewhere with favourable incentives (e.g. Portugal). Live there for a x-amount of time until I have residency, could I then cash out with no reprisals from HMRC? Are there any other options similar to this type of work around?

>>24614420
Thinking of doing this too.
Also I'm not allowed to disclose details of the contract and who I worked with as that'll break the NDA agreement and it's also classified.

>>24616903
I'd recommend just leaving Bongland entirely. In Germany youre not taxed for crypto holdings older than 12 months. But I am sure there are other countries like Portugal as you said. Just pick a nice country, dont feed Boris and his cronies your hard earned money.

>>24617632
the sentiment is nice, and you're basically saying what I'm already saying but I'm trying to iron out the technicalities so I can actually make it happen.

>>24602181
I will NOT pay taxes to finance roads for niggers to drive on.
I will NOT pay taxes to finance schools for niggers to skip.
I will NOT pay taxes to finance hospitals for obese niggers with heart failure.
I will NOT pay taxes to finance welfare systems that enable niggers to breed on unemployment.
I will NOT pay taxes to finance subsidized housing for niggers to turn into ghettos.
I will NOT pay taxes to finance water and electricity infrastructure for niggers to live like the western man.
I will NOT pay taxes to finance public lawyers that keep 1 out of a 1000 niggers out of prison.
I will NOT pay taxes to finance parks and libraries for niggers to loiter in.

>>24618606
immutably based

>>24618526
Yeah, your crypto holdings are not tied to any one country. You are taxed in the country you pay taxes in, and I think this country would be the one that you spend 51% of your time in.
You'd have to get into the details but its a solid plan in itself.

>>24603708
Taxation is theft. Where are all you soi boi shills coming from? You sound like a faggot

>>24619037
I would gladly pay half or more of my income if I was certain that every fraction of it went to white, sober, male countrymen.

>>24602379
Or you could just have stricter international tax laws, you pedophile kike

>>24604677
Cry more goy

>>24602316
You try it, then 15 minutes later you are raided by the Feds.

>>24603708
>/pol

Imagine thinking that taxation is not theft