/biz/ - Business & Finance

Capital gains tax increasing real estate is one factor. Property tax. Inheritence tax. Its virtually impossible to pass on land or hold land. This isnt even touching on insurance being a scam and regulations and zoning being back breaking for construction workers. In america im almost sure you legally have to pay for the install of your government owned sidewalk and trees. This is all by design to increase money velocity. They cant have you have easy shelter and access to clean food and water or you wont sit in the wagie cagie

>>24534452

>Spain and Italy have higher median wealth than the US

I have to admit, I didn't expect that. Absolutely dismal.

>>24534677
American middle class are poor people compared to other developed countries. It’s pretty obvious. The minimum wage has been the same for decades, healthcare is a scam, student loans are a scam but muh guns and muh freedom. God bless murica

>>24534634
Property tax decreases real estate prices, but somehow capital gains tax increases it, at least according to the libertarian guest. I can't wrap my head around why it is so.

>>24534677
There is even bigger surprise, that is Germany not in top 25.

Deurbanize. Most of the "cost of living" increase is just the overpriced real estate bubble due to millennials wanting to live in a "hip" location.

>>24534725
No one ever said theres free money in america in fact the freedom has generally extended to the idea of its okay to garner wealth and land without being socialized into oblivion. The worst part of living in Europe is the disrespect towards general property rights and overall heavily regulated lifestyles and restrictions on the people

>>24534677
The US has a lot of income inequality. Look at the mean wealth, the US is ranked #2.

>>24534772
Us germans do not believe in wealth. We prefer spending our money on unnecessary insurance, welfare spending and inflated energy prices.
it's a heavy price to pay, but arrogantly berating americans and eastern european countries on their wrong ways makes it worth it.

>>24534858
Imagine if this ((((nongentile)))) spoke for your country. Cuckmany

>>24534843

Oh, I know there's plenty of inequality. I just didn't expect the median to rate below Italy and Spain, southern Europe being notoriously unproductive and comparatively poor. It shows how much of a fraud the "American dream" ideal really is.

>>24534452
>Are there any books and works on this?
Go on mises.org
What you are looking for are free market counters to the current status quo of "regulation and taxes"
Read Man, Economy and State by Murray Rothbard. Read Human Action by Ludwig von Mises

>>24534884
go back to /pol/ you retard. /biz/ is too smart for you.

>>24534452
>>Less regulations on building
No regulation is better
>>Higher interest rates
Let the market set the interest rate
>>Only citizens allowed to buy land/house
Stupid law
>>Progressive property tax/land tax
Taxation is theft

>>24534926
Nothing smart about communism germany is subjected to conveniently contracting jewish run organizations. You think no ones getting wealth in germany. Trust me. There are people getting tons of wealth in germany, its like Saudi prince level even if you havent heard their name

>>24534949

>>24534968
>I LOVE MY OVERLORDS

>>24534949
So youre telling me there are people getting rich in a market economy? Holy shit I didnt know that, you seem pretty smart

>>24534930
>>>Only citizens allowed to buy land/house
>Stupid law

The absolute STATE of libertarians. Neoliberals, globalists, libertarians, all the same thing.

>>24534982
Meaning off his beloved communist programs; medical, education. Oh its all paid for we love it it saves us money and we just dont have to worry about it because our jewlords take care of everything for free!! Weee the world is magical

>>24535003
have you ever heard of sarcasm you fucking autist?

>>24534920
>>24534930
Thanks for suggestions. Why you favor foreigners being allowed to buy property in your country? They do increase real estate prices, what are benefits from it? Let's say a country like Cambodia allows foreign investors to buy properties, Chinese and other investors can push prices so high that local people won't afford houses at all. I mean, Australia, New Zealand and Canada are examples of that happening.

>>24534452
>After the conference we continued the debate with my fellow students on cost of living. It feels like that common notion that (small)inflation is good, deflation bad is wrong.
Inflation of 1-2% is good because that means more wealth is being created and the money supply is catching up. Again you have the remember that the Federal Reserve literally sells money.
Terrible explanation, but I would start reading about the Federal Reserve.

I still didn't get answers for my questions.
>What other ways to bring real estate prices?
>Why capital gains tax increases real estate prices?
>Why land tax is better than property tax?
Anyone can help?
Beyond that, I have a hypothetical question. Let's say, US government disbanded FED and assumed Gold/Silver standard. Any bank that has gold/silver reserve can print their own gold/silver backed money. Is there any way to approximately calculate how much it will bring prices down?

>>24535075
SHUT UP HANS GO POST SOME SICK WEBMS AND HAVE LEGAL PROSTITUTE SEX LIKE A CHAD

>>24534452
Austrian school isn’t grounded in imperial evidence

>>24535079
>Why you favor foreigners being allowed to buy property in your country?
I'd say something something free market + feedback loops caused by increased demand.
(after all higher housing costs signal more profit for developers who then will drive down prices through increased supply ... that is of course unless regulation do not make housing developments artificially unprofitable)

>>24535305
Empirical?

>>24535305
>Austrian school isn’t grounded in imperial evidence

that is probably because a lot of them are anarchists

>>24534452
Why is Australia good on every single metric I’ve seen it on? Only bad thing about Australia is the wifi speeds and the chinks

>>24535306
But there is still limited supply of available land. If you just think of it in terms of land, you can't develop more land to bring prices down.

>>24534677
All it means is there are a lot more worthless parasites in USA.

>>24535329
They make empirical claims but have no imperial evidence done in the matter of things such as studies. Plus this type of free market and lack of regulation has only occurred through a strong hand of the government. Look at Singapore and Chink Korea

>>24535332
And the unliveable wasteland of an island called Australia. You know. That too

>>24535364
*empirical not imperial fuck phoneposting

>>24535332
Rich=Good
you can say the same about Switzerland or Austria

>>24534452
>The libertarian guest said that one of biggest problems we have currently is high cost of living
Wrong. It's white genocide

>>24534452
As an aussie,

we have never had a housing correction, our debt per person on average is fucking rediculous, the whole concept of a debt based economy only works if it's not artificially manipulated by governments.

Australia only has liek 56 banks or some shit, US has over 6k.... Those 56 Banks on average have a ratio of 80+% on mortgages vs less then 20% to business loans.

this country is ultra fucked considering we need jobs to stimulate the economy and not a fucking house. The tax benefits and government subsidies have started up again this year, trying to get everyone to buy an overpriced house and it's not going to end well... we have been proloing a massive market crash in australia for 40+ years, boomers feed the retards of our generation that a house is a way of life, very hard to change an upbringing where they feed trash into our brains that buying a house is the end goal.

Fuck all that shit, made over a mill in crypto, dont even want to buy one, never did... only cucks and dumb fucks buy houses, you should only buy one when it hardly has an influence in your bank acc. not worth the risk buying at the top.

>>24535388
Those places are nice to live in, Switzerland has the greatest health insurance on the planet, extremely low amount of immigration, a truly nationalist party in charge, no tax on crypto, etc etc. Would love to go there but I love amerishartica too much

>>24535361
Yea i think the only debate is which end those parasites exist on. Clearly its the rich whom have parasited us with their regulations and taxes and starvation in abundance
>>24535364
This is midwit logic. Just because evidence doesn't exist doesnt mean truth isnt true

>>24535355
> If you just think of it in terms of land, you can't develop more land to bring prices down.
but you can replace old houses with newer ones.

>>24535391
Instead of this say low skilled immigration threatens our working class. We can’t import dozens of millions of people pay them shit and expect it to work well for our native working class. Easy way to not sound like *insert buzzword* to leftoids

>>24535416
>This is midwit logic. Just because evidence doesn't exist doesnt mean truth isnt true
Devalues the meanings of your words though.

>>24534744
Indirectly. Interest paid on investment property is tax-deductible. And there is no restriction on how many such properties you can hold besides your primary residence. Also in many countries there is no CGT when you sell your primary residence. So tax benefits in one way or other.

>>24534452
In the UK the main factor driving real estate up is the population density, the problem has got so bad the government are making tax payer funded schemes just to get people on the housing ladder.

>>24535440
For words to be true the value of them has no consequence only a jew would ascribe value to words. All that matters is the words are true, and to that effect youve made no claim

>>24534452
>>24534677
Eight years ago I graduated law school and couldn't find a job in the U.S. (thanks Obama). I ended up moving to Taiwan as a foreign legal adviser. I earned half as much as I would have in the U.S., but I was able to save over 50% of my pay. In the U.S. almost all of what I earned would either have gone to taxes or to living expenses.

For less than what I would have had to pay to rent a basic apartment in the U.S., I was able to pay for ALL of my monthly living expenses in Taiwan -- apartment, food, the national health insurance scam, transportation, booze, entertainment, phone/internet, utility bills, everything.

Oh, and I threw a little of the savings into BTC and now I'm doing absolutely great.

>>24534744
The "like kind exchange" deal on real estate allows people to cash out of one house and move into the next. This forces people to stay on the property ladder, buying ever more expensive houses. You used to only get to cash out once at retirement age; that changed in some tax reforms a while back, but the mentality is still there.

>>24535403
i think it's also the only country that grants you the RIGHT to own a firearm, in Austria you are only ALLOWED to own arms.

>>24535423
Yeah I know how to frame it from an economical perspective when talking to normies but this is 4chan and fascism is needed far more than libertarianism right now. Letting the Jews keep their monopolies with less regulations would be the end of us.

>>24535230
One simple way to extrapolate on this would be to see trend in medium housing cost by locality denominated in gold ounce - how many ounces of gold necessary to buy a house in a given locality / suburb.

>>24535517
Yeah, gun laws in Switzerland are better than American gun laws. Self policing is a big thing there. Small, almost homogeneous, extremely mountainous nation with loads of cash and extremely lax gun laws.

>>24535522
You cant see that the very enemy you're fighting you have to become the same or worse to destroy except by pure intention, aka libertarianism

>>24535079
>Why you favor foreigners being allowed to buy property in your country?
I don't favour that
I'm in favour for a free market unrestricted by intervention. sellers of houses are free to restrain selling to outsiders if they so choose, but for a third party to intervene is wrong

>>24535555
That’s super fucking dumb, this risks hoardes of Chinese investors from jacking up the price of real estate. Just look at Canada and many cities in the US, their housing prices are extremely inflated because Chinese investors own every fucking vacant plot of land or any fucking home.

>>24534858
Don't forget paying for housing and living expenses for all the rapefugees. Your daughters will wear the hijab and have no clitorises.

>>24535423
>Instead of this say low skilled immigration threatens our working class
The ones hurt most by it are poor blacks and latinos, who don't have the skills to just go chat with the CEO of NBC and get a high-wage job like Chelsea Clinton did.

>>24534926
Fuck off, Shlomo.

>>24535578
I don't know much about murrica or canadia so I can not really comment on what you wrote, but I think maybe the following video might be of interest to you:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExgxwKnH8y4

>>24535593
>Don't forget paying for housing and living expenses for all the rapefugees.
you mean welfare spending? the thing I mentioned?

>>24535660
Is that video about the Californian zoning laws?

>>24535416
Fair point but no need to debate, fren. Eliminate the rich/kikes and the poor/nonwhites. The only debate is the best way to.

>>24535694
The idea of someone whom has secured shelter, food and water to be poor is a jewish concept. Although not comfortable, this person is not poor. The only issue to libertarians are those infringing on others, including the ultra wealthy be it the tax man, fed, or regulatory agency, and the meddling midwit who walks around attacking our families for being colors they dont like

>>24535692
>>24535660
Yup it is, but that is not only thing that jacks up prices. Again, Canada and vast swathes of the US. In fact SFO is a good example of Chinese investors jacking up the price

>>24535332
We are a nation of chads, other nations can’t compete

>>24535692
to a degree I think so.

>>24535766
>Yup it is, but that is not only thing that jacks up prices.

I see.

>In fact SFO is a good example of Chinese investors jacking up the price

How do they do this? So far I can only imagine them spiking demand but that alone is should not be sufficient to keep prices inflated.

>>24535859
They corner the housing market by mass buying and then raising prices for tenants which people have to dish out or be homeless

>>24535893
Do they do this california-wide or just in SF? I just tried finding out the percentage of real estate by chinks in SF and all I got was this graph. (I don't know whether the data is trustworthy though. )

>>24535979
Do this across major areas in the US. Canada is hit by it the hardest though. Vancouver’s home prices are fucked rnow

>>24535230
You call it plebbit, but I got answer for my question there
>Why capital gains tax increases real estate prices?
It works in conjunction with artificially low interest rates. Low interest rates force investors to buy properties (get rid of cash). CGT works in such way that the longer you keep property lower CGT(at least per year) you pay. It's much better to buy one property and keep it for twenty years than buy/sell twenty properties in that period of time. The way to get around CGT is to NOT SELL. If you need cash, you can borrow money from bank against your property, which is again becomes very easy with artificially low interest rates. That way, CGT as it is now, forces people to buy properties and not sell for as long as possible.

>>24534772
Is that good or bad?

>>24536001
I see, I just can not imagine this mechanic to work without the cities blocking new housing developments. I mean chinks love building new housing too. Also if the previous graph is correct then buying up 10% of the yearly supply shouldn't be enough to corner any market.

>>24536052
It's what the germans call "ein Armutszeugnis"

I live in Luxembourg, confirm that its expensive as fuck

>>24536065
Vancouver it is not 10%

>>24534884
>>24535593
>arguing against satire
this board is infested by the worst kind of dumbfucks

>>24534858
Unnecessary insurance?
Can u give an example

Fuck off cunt, Im from the UK and theres NO WAY 100k dollars it the medium income per adult

Id say its closer to like 30k

>>24536202
my bad i thought it was salary. nevertheless dont be fooled the average britbong is skint. its just the rich minority making those numbers look like everyone has it together in the UK

On the street, the average person in the UK is broke. its just theres millionaires averaging it out

a. Go to /pol/ and get your dumbass libertarian questions torn a new asshole by people who actually know what they are talking about. Because 90% are former libertarians. And because /pol/ is always right.
b. Those fucking wikipedia numbers are full of shit

>>24536115
you're right. Vancouver is crazy. Almost a third of all housing there is owned by Chinese nationals.

>>24536212
Ah you cunt made me read it wrong. I don't even give a fuck about this shit but that annoyed the shit out of me kek

>>24536076
Is it good or bad though?

>>24534452
Just Bc a libertarian holds the idea doesn’t make it libertarian. Look at that fucker rand Paul, useless piece of shit nothing about him is libertarian when he had the chance to actually change things.

>>24536194
You know what? I'm actually wrong on this one. I was alluding to the somewhat common notion that germans spend larger parts of their income on insurance compared to other europeans but thanks to you I just found out that while still spending more than the average they are only fourth in europe.

>>24536254
Housing prices are awful throughout the whole lower mainland desu. Even complete shitholes like Maple Ridge are overpriced

>>24536276
I think it's bad. The implication here is that despite germans being some of the most productive people in Europe they do not acquire nearly as much wealth as a spaniard or italian - both countries commonly thought of as being less productive.

(that is of course unless the table in OPs post insn't sorted in some weird way ...)

>>24536564
>Maple Ridge
that must be the most canadian place in existence, eh?

>Housing prices are awful throughout the whole lower mainland desu

so I guess the chinks aren't restricting themselves to only buying up property in major cities?

>>24536491
You're welcome, i guess
Can u post source please. I want to educate myself on that matter too

>>24534677
Keep in mind that a lot of "wealth" is concentrated on real estate; if you're not living in a major city/region (in Spain and Italy, dunno about Belgium,Luxembourg or Iceland) it's next to impossible to actually convert the paper wealth into cash equivalents, especially now with the current situation, without taking a double digit haircut.
It's the opposite thing in Canada,Aus,Nz and the Seoul RE market (KR) where wealth by speculation is making new ath.

>>24534452
Just a cheeky reminder to anyone who's thinking of it
FUCK OFF WE'RE FULL.

>>24534452
Returns on widely available investments such as housing and stocks will always be about equal, otherwise arbotrageurs would create massive buy/sell-pressure to equalize them. Taxing the returns is the same as lowering them. That means when taxes are raised on one investment, the returns of that investment are lowered and people will flee it for more profitable investments until returns even out again. So when taxes are raised on dividends, investors flock to housing to collect rent, thus lowering stock prices and raising house-prices but making rents more competitive.

>>24534452
Also you're a nigger who doesn't understand inflation if you think costs of living aren't the lowest they've ever been in the history of mankind. Do you think medieval peasants owned smartphones, laptops, tv's, netflix-subscriptions or anything but stale bread and a table despite their nominally low costs of living?

>>24536659
Maple Ridge doesn't quite fit the Canadian stereotype desu. It's known locally for being full of homeless people and drugs

My Parents live in a middle class neighbourhood in a medium sized city (80,000- 100,000 people I think) and the house next to them got bought by some shady Chinese guy, torn down and rebuilt twice as big and four times as expensive (they also paved over the whole back yard and made the neighbourhood uglier)

>>24534452
Only boomers have that wealth. Young people are fucked

>>24534452
>What are other ways to do it?
Harberger Tax. the very idea frightens normies though.

>the owner of a property declares the value of the property and pays some fixed percentage tax based on the value
>anyone can buy the property from you at anytime if they pay the value you defined. you can't refuse to sell, if you say your house is worth $100 in order to only pay 10 cents in tax, guess what, i just brought your house for $100
makes speculating on property far more difficult. you can't have fucking hundreds of houses sitting around empty. well, you can, but it will cost you a fortune to stop people from forcing you to sell them.

>>24537362
also, all other forms of tax would be abolished and an amendment added to the constitution declaring any future forms of taxation illegal and a violation of the NAP. government would no longer be able to control interest rates, as the central bank would be nuked from low orbit. now try build your rent seeking empire

>>24534452
>USA has 3rd highest mean wealth but 22nd medium wealth
That’s fucking horrific. And yet people will still claim that a higher tax on the rich is too much in this country.

>>24537362
>t. Smoothbrain
How is your proposal any better than the auction-market? Way to go making markets more inefficient.

>>24536251
>Because 90% are former libertarians
no they arent. 90% are former teenagers who jerked off to lolicon and now want a white ethnostate

>>24534452
>finland in top 25 of wealth
what the fuck, I thought we were poor

>>24537395
retarded faggot. houses are listed on auction market by choice. the harberger system is creates a new definition of property; if you have not provided a valuation, and are not paying tax on it, YOU DO NOT OWN IT.
this also applies to the government :)
tons of land sitting around with fuckall going on on it right next to houses costing millions? too bad feds, you have to give it to me.

>>24534677
this chart is incorrect. i'm a frog. 10M of our citizens live under the poverty level (we're about ~70M, ~30M adults)
the stats for france are also factually wrong. the numbers would be in the right range, but they are not PER ADULT. they are PER HOUSEHOLD. the median wealth per french household is ~$120k, the mean wealth per french household is ~$280k
it's likely most/all of the data from that chart suffers from similar discrepancies

>>24537452
You make an evaluation when you place a bid. Also, there isn't tons of land sitting around houses costing millions.
You should go out into the real world before forming opinions about things you clearly don't understand.

>>24537362
I like the idea, because it keeps the market honest.

>>24537566
auctions enable hold-out pricing. herberger penalizes it. also, see pic related.
>the real world
you mean the one where house prices are growing beyond the reach of the middle class? i prefer mine.

>>24537658
So, let's say I buy a land and build a factory on it. What should I do to prevent big corporations to buy that land from me? If I start competing with them they can just say fuck you and buy my land, no matter how high I valuate it.

>>24537633
it's a cool concept but will never happen. it's simply too hardcore. all we can hope for in reality is vastly reduced levels of government interference in housing construction.

imagine if you went out to the middle of nowhere and brought a 100 acre farmland and just started building stacks of houses on it, like just hundreds of houses. you would have a ruby ridge situation, immediately. at least in my country. muh permit muh regulation muh taxes muh jurisdiction. that's the 'real world', aka people you dont know nor who have anyhting to do with you trying to fuck you in the ass

>>24537658
They're not though, housing being unaffordable is leftist propaganda. I bought a house in a no-nigger suburb despite both me and my fiancée working less than half time.
Also, as your map clearly demonstrates, there is no government land anywhere near houses that cost millions.

>>24534452
The high cost of living is the result of the financialization of the economy. Which was brought by banks and colluding governments. What that lolberterian didn't say is that under his ideal firm of government, this would only increase further

>>24534677
sucks to be you ngl

>>24537698
>If I start competing with them they can just say fuck you and buy my land, no matter how high I valuate it.
i actually don't know the proper argument from the point of harberger tax, but consider this:

if you build your factory for total cost of ex. $1 million including the land, and then you value it at $10 million because it's doing super well but alas the competing company buys it, nothing is stopping you from using that $10 million to open up 10 new factories.

>>24534677
13% of Americans are niggers and probably another 25% are illegal immigrant day laborers
I would guess <10% of Americans even make 70k/year (as an individual) which is basically 'not needing to work 2 jobs' tier income in the US.

>>24537184
They’ve gone up considerably in the last 50 years. If you look at the stock index growth has stagnated, the value of our currency is decimated, people are generally poorer, inequality is higher, etc

>>24537749
They're not though, housing being unaffordable is leftist propaganda.
not in my country (nz). in 10 years housing prices are expected to double across the board. at that point they will be average of just under 2 million nzd which is like 1.5 mil USD. that will take more than 50 years to pay the mortgage off of for normal income. my country is particularity bad but they're all headed the same way under the current systems.
right now theres LITERALLY no reason to not just buy and sit on land indefinitely, even if right now it is making you negative money, just hold out bro

>there is no government land anywhere near houses that cost millions.
las vegas? idk man, seems like artificially limiting land supply by letting muh government have it for no reason. wtf are they doing with that land in utah bro? gibs me dat

>>24537862
>wtf are they doing with that land in utah bro? gibs me dat
National parks

>>24537779
Damn, this actually might work, especially if you give sufficient eviction time. Big corps can't afford to overpay for properties too often too, because they will be forced to pay taxes on them and if they drop the valuation then others would buy them, making them lose ton of money. Need to try it out somewhere along with futarchy.

>>24537889
yeah same bullshit different name here.
>oh whats that people living on the sidewalk??? houses price is litterally millions? AT LEAST WE HAVE NATIONAL PARKS BRO!
nope. sorry faggots, shouldn't have ruined the housing markets. now your little faggot forest has to be razed so we can have more urban sprawl. you made this bed now lie in it

>>24537184
What does owning a smartphone have to do with how much you get paid and how much of that paycheck goes to rent and other basic COL needs?
>you should be content with working 60 hours a week just to get by because you have a magic internet machine that fits in your pocket
You sound like someone who call themselves a libertarian because they want to have a lot of money (but doesn't) and in reality is a teenager that lives with their parent(s).
Having smartphones isn't a justification for why more and more people are living with room mates into their mid 30s and early 40s.

>>24534452
My savings are 10k below the "median wealth" for my country.

I assume this also counts everything you own? I don't have a house though.

>>24537920
if you google around you will find all kinds of bullshit implementations using blockchains to represent land etc.


i'm not sure how Harberger expected it to actually exist but it's a novel starting point for something more 'realistic', but really too raw to implement as is. imagine harberger tax goes into effect, 90% of boomers fail to declare a valuation on their land and then some neckbeard buys it all with one bitcoin. kek

All of you are overthinking this. If we kill all the niggers it will solve everything.

>>24537977
but they dont even own houses anyway

>>24537812
>1 verifiable claim
>stock index growth
Lmao you reformists really are retards aren't you?

>>24537862
Blame population growth and immigration. Don't you guys have a lot of mudslimes?
>>24537889
Correct answer

>>24537926
America has tons of land. California’s housing market sucks because a bunch of boomers bought everything up and are holding for eternity. And the same boomers passed retarded zoning laws that made it hard as shit to build new houses. And then 67 gorillion Mexicans moved in causing another flurry of bullshit. In short, the problem isn’t amount of land available but a bunch of other shit

>>24534634
This is pretty much soft communism as private property is increasingly hard to maintain.

>>24537970
>90% of boomers fail to declare a valuation on their land and then some neckbeard buys it all with one bitcoin. kek
Good, fuck boomers

>>24537949
>just to get by
>basic QOL needs
Socialist detected
Revert your material standard 50 years and I am sure you will have plenty of money left over.

>>24538014
Inequality has increased over the last 50 years. This is quantifiable fact. However that is due to an unending stream of immigration, so yeah

>>24538038
no, we have a lot of chinese though. but the housing problem is almost entirely due to local govenments / councils refusing new housing projects, ridiculous rules around building new houses, etc which make the cost of building a house very high

we literally have the opposite of a shortage of land, go look at japan, country is roughly the same size, population is like fucking 170 millions or whatever, their houses should cost like 100 million each or whatever if its based on population density like you're suggesting

do you know what a national park is?
... its undeveloped land ... its literally a mental construct... its literally land that nobody has done anything with

>>24538084
>And the same boomers passed retarded zoning laws that made it hard as shit to build new houses
exactly. but i define that under 'land available', if there's land but it can't be built on for a sane price due to retarded laws, there's a land supply problem. and the kicker is we wouldn't let anyone else get away with it but because it's the government its ok.

>>24538120
I don’t want American nature destroyed so Pedro can make a bunch of shitshack neighborhoods. Housing market is fine, zoning laws aren’t. Fix em and costs go down. We have a metric fuck ton of space

>>24538117
Thomas Piketty is the most irrelevant economist of human history

>>24534789
But, but muh hustle and bustle.

>>24534968
nice selfie

>>24534858
Marry me you genius Kraut baiter

>>24538141
good luck fighting the hordes of NIMBYs

>>24538093
Commies aren’t against owning property. There’s a difference between personal property (like homes and shit) and private property like owning the grounds of a factory

>>24535305
>imperial
Fuckwit

>>24538167
I believe it would be harder to lower the amount of federal land there is than end zoning laws.

>>24538171
who are the ones against me owning property then by inventing things like "inheritance tax" so I can hate them?

>>24538171
i dont think communism counts any form of land as personal property. personal property is things like your computer and toothbrush. its commodities. i dont think you can own land under communism

>>24538177
I meant empirical, I’m phoneposting like a fucking subhuman so I messed up there

>>24538194
>>24538185
Excuse me for being retarded there. I guess the discord tranny that told me this was lying

>>24537977
Humanity has a mentality that the capable and smart should carry the dumb and lazy. If you remove the dumb and lazy of course we would prosper way faster.

>>24534452
Sounds like you have a paper to write. I don't believe you had a 'Libertarian guest'.

>>24538120
>do you know what a national park is?
>... its undeveloped land ... its literally a mental construct... its literally land that nobody has done anything with

You are the definition of a bugman. Fuck off to China, it's your promised land.

>>24534452
there is no way that chart is accurate, i dont see norway or netherlands

>>24535400
underrated post m8. factor in the removal of local manufacturing, the defunding of education (combined with the sale of the b-rate shit we're left now to foreigners) , and the never-ending tax concessions for fucking boomers and it's not hard to see it all collapsing. kids simply have not hope of coming up with the insane ponzi prices that property has been inflated to here...

>>24538259
>missing the point this hard
fuck yo park nigga. shieet is just trees and shit yo feel me

>>24534677
Americans today are a mongrelized slave class.
They're like the plebeians at Rome after all of the slaves imported from conquests crashed salaries and self employment to 0 and citizens were living on handouts .

>>24538261
Norway is 19th, look again. Also
>28. Portugal 44k
>29. Sweden 41k
>31. Greece 40k
>33. Germany 35k
>34. Netherlands 31k
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_wealth_per_adult

>>24534452
It's a good debate.
My personal choice is for prohibiting renting and limiting personal properties to 2. This way, landlords have no reason to buy houses, and everyone needs to buy a house so the liquidity of housing goes through the roof.
My brainlet brother who is a doctor but thinks he knows about finance and economics:
>>>b-but that way there's no incentive to construction and that's a big industry!!!
Yeah, superfluous industries need to die, that's right. If construction activity is currently inflated, it needa to be corrected; thinking that we need to sustain useless activities because >muh jobs is retardation101.

Also, ignore all the lelbertarians and VonMises fetishists, they are litetal retards that believe the efficient market hypothesis and similar things. The only role government should have is regulation, we need it desperately.

>>24538524
Libertarians provided plenty of arguments on why and how regulations and government and central banks increase cost of living, among other things. Can you provide convincing arguments why we need more regulations?

>>24538567
Yes, there are 2 easy ones that have historical precendent and are not just wishy-washy theorising.
1) the markets are inneficient and often do not reflect demand/supply (keynesians are complete fools) - just trade for a few years and you will immediately understand this
2) unregulated markets of any kind always lead to monopolies. Once monopolies are reached, they decide which price you will pay, they will suck you dry, and they desteoy all small competition at conception. I don't need to give you examples of this happening all the time, do I?

>>24535694
Then we wake up to realize most whites are just a small step ahead of the nonwhite and a big portion of them are also poor.

>>24538437
WHY THE FUCK DO THOSE ITALIAN SHITHEADS WANT US TO BAIL THEM OUT. GO INCREASE YOUR PENSION AGE LIKE WE DID YOU FUCKING ROACHES

>>24534789
You don't know shit nigger. Trying to buy my first home and the one time I find a. Affordable property that's a fixer upper there's 7 cars there wll people wanting to buy it. Thing is there fucking jews investers wanting to flip it or rent it out. Not a single person wanted to fucking live there. Before "huurrr durrrr don't live in city" I'm 40 miles from the fucking city

Libertarians get the moral highground, so they win by default. The ideas of "taxation is theft" and "you're entitled to the sweat of your brow" allow Libertarians to win by default because all other ideologies involve the government being tyrannical and overbearing.

The real debate comes into play if we actually lived in a Libertarian society and you got the choice to freely opt into government. In such a world, I believe that the government would be more motivated to provide socialist benefits to people who choose to pay taxes. I like to imagine that they would make the deal so good that we'd all be saying "Voluntarily paying taxes is a no-brainer, the deal to too good to pass up!" But we all know this isn't how it is in our real world, particularly speaking to my fellow Americans here. We pay taxes and get hardly anything to show for it. If taxation became voluntary, you bet your ass that I would stop paying IMMEDIATELY!

>>24535305
kill yourself keynesian scum.

>>24538852
Any argument?

>>24534985
It is problem because of regulations. Supply is being held down by politicians.

>>24538871
just the plethora or literature which has been written on economics that tears keynesian assholes wide open

>>24538871

>>24538729
>1) the markets are inneficient and often do not reflect demand/supply
They might be inefficient to some degree, but they are still more efficient than artificially setting prices or putting restrictions
>2) unregulated markets of any kind always lead to monopolies
Not always. Monopolies can emerge in a free market, but they can do that only by being more efficient, offering lower prices and higher quality than their prospective competitors. Current monopolies survive thanks to government subsidies and regulations that stops their competition.

>>24538729
>1) the markets are inneficient and often do not reflect demand/supply

kek. i can assure you the free market is quite efficient. refer to the development of human civilisation.

>muh monolopolies!

monopolies are almost ALWAYS a result of government intervention, and competition to monopolies is hampered by a LACK of the free market.

>>24534452

>Median Wealth, Mean Wealth
literal shit.
A few millionaires and a minority of debtless houseowners are the only ones above those "median" figures.

>>24538989
Monopolies ALWAYS emerge in free markets. It's basic complex system dynamics. If you eant to think about it in non-mathematical terms, and want economic mumbo-jumbo, survival of the fittets really.means that, just one remains.
How a company gets to be the monopoly doesn't matter. What does matter is that once it gets there, the game changes and the consumer is the one who loses.

Economists shouldn't be allowed to say anything about.money or markets. Anyone with a minimum quantitative background completely understands all of the logical fallacies that every single school has, it's pathetic to think you can find a system that is able to explain transaction systems and optimize them.

Imo I have found a new Gem!

Put a glance at DDIM on Uniswap, it seems like the DuckDAO platform made a revolution among investment systems. Take a look at duckdao.io, share your opinion about it

>>24538729
>monopolies
Aren’t as bad as you think, read zero to one

>>24538093
Correct it's called keynsianisn, look at the Fabian society of which Keynes was a member of

Wtfhappenedin1971.com

>>24539065
I cna assure you that civilization only appeared due to regulations and the rule of law, faggot.
Even since the first unregulated markets, and also stuff like tulips, bubbles emerge. There was no demand for all those flowers being sold, hence why the bubble exploded. This happens time and time again, don't be intellectually dishonest, you brainlet.

Your second paragraph is just pulling shit out of your ass, don't you understand that a monopoly is a critical poont in the system where the dynamics completely change? Once a monopoly is built only two things can dismantle it:
1) the company fucks up itself internally
2) regulators force them to divide

What the fuck is antitrust???
You fucking mouth breather

>>24539135
>Read this literal monopoly propaganda

Yeah, bro, you don't believe in God? Read the Bible, bro!!

>>24539184
It’s not what it says. The claim is that monopolies are just the most efficient form of business. And perfect competition is worse than competition because it would facilitate less rnd. America was built by monopolies

>>24539151
Of course.

>>24534452
I think Austrian ppl are ok with deflation.

>>24535503
>"like kind exchange"
This is called a 1031 exchange.

>>24539241
No, monopolies were the most efficient companies. Once they reach monopoly status, they bloat and depend on sucking customers dry because they have no choice.
There's also the logical fallacy that monopolies have beyter ability for research. Research within huge companies leada to nowhere because it conforms to company norms.
Truly disruptive companies are immediately bought out or they choke them out, so no disruption is possible, that's what true monopolies act like. Only regulators can stop monopolies.

Great exanple in the US - Rockefeller

>>24539334
Also, it's like you're ignoring the amazon, favebook and google effective monopolies right now.

>>What??? You want to protect your data??? Nooo goy, no can do

There's a reason why they want to split them all up

>>24534452
Be weary of libertarian argument - which they glance over evidence or explanation for why things are.

>>24538799
Interesting take.

Libertarian economics is mostly Talmudic bullshit.
It is largely the work of (((Mises))) and (((Aaron Director))) of the Chicago School. Their main goal to was to shill for corporations and end the New Deal antitrust and anti monopoly regulations that had been the greatest wealth generator for white Americans in history.

>>24538110
>COL
>QOL
>Socialism
>Communism
Literal retard detected

>>24539162
>rule of law has anything to do with the free market

...right

how is a monopoly built in a free market?

>>24539162
There is some inefficiency in the free market, but it is a necessary evil. Still better than government intervention. Bubbles might happen in the free market, but current bubbles that we have are here thanks to the government and artificially low interest rates. In the real free market, without government involvement we won't have current real estate, stock, corporate debt and credit card debt bubble. We have all of them thanks to the government backing bank loans and fed printing money like no tomorrow. On top of that college prices skyrocketed thanks to federally backed loans causing a student debt crisis. None of these bubbles would happen in the free market.

>>24539378
If you are against monopolies you should be against government, because government is supporting current monopolies by subsidizing, offering tax cuts, putting regulations that prevent competition from emerging. See Amazon paying 0% tax for 10+ years. See government bailing out GM and Chrysler. If you allow government to intervene, you allow corporations to get hold of the government and rig rules in their favor. The best way to stop that is to push government out of everything as much as possible.

>>24534677
They have had 20% unemployment for a decade. They get free defense from being next to nato and force the bundesbank to finance their welfare state. If the dollar pops, it will be 10x worse in PIGS than anywhere else

>>24535305
Because it's a theoretical school, dumbass. Says law has no "empirical evidence" and that doesn't mean it isn't true. If you can't understand the dichotomy you are a brainlet

>>24534858
>>24534926
Into the oven you go kike

>>24535305
>imperial evidence

Freudian slip keynsian?

>>24534677
Spaniard here that list is bs 100%

>>24541040
ITT people not underrstanding what median means.

These are your /biz/lets nowadays ladies and gents.

>>24534452
The big problem is that people take cost of living or cpi as a measure of inflation.
If you focus on this you wont understand the problem.
You need to insert asset price inflation as a seperate concept to cost of living. Once you look at these both you will see that since we went off the gold standard these two types of inflation diverged massively, cpu rising at 2% per year and asset prices at roughly 6%.

When you think of asset price inflation you shouldn't think of a standard (unit) house or a unit of gold or a unit of stocks or a unit of currency. You should think of the total Market cap of these assets.
And then you'll see that the M2 supply indeed has risen with 6% whilst the dollar stayed a dollar (obviously thats our reference value here also with cpi), that the gold supply has risen with 2% per year and the price with at least 4%, that there is more residential and commercial space being built at a pace of x% but prices also rize with x%, that stock market mcap rose with something like 7% etc.
Thus 1 million dollar has for 50 years running now bought you about a 6% smaller slice of global/US assets every year.

However it has only bought you 2% less of consumer goods and products. And these consumer goods and products are what wages are being paid with, so you cant raise wages with more than 2% per year and so you see that while in 1970 a person bought a family home with a loan from the bank that he'd be able to pay back in 10-15 years, nowadays people get loans for 25 or 30 years and soon this will become 40 years and longer and before you know it...
People will own nothing yet still be happy, lmao.
Food prices will stay ok, but assets and will get transfered into the hands of those who already own.
Labour will be valued less because the system will force everyone to work. When nobody even has a choice to decline work for next to nothing, why would you pay more? They'll work anyway. Just pay them enough to survive till the next day.

>>24534452
For a quick and easy introduction to Austrian economics, read economics in one lesson. It's the best way to learn Austrian economics.

Central banking is terrible, we need FREE BANKING.

>>24541068
They think their anecdotal evidence is bigger proof than statistics, and these people are investing in crypto, talk about not seeing the bigger picture.

>>24534452
DAILY REMINDER

FUCK ALL KEYNSIANS

PIC RELATED

https://wtfhappenedin1971.com/

>>24534452
Damn it feels good to be Australian. We are mogged only by the Swiss

>>24535305
>Austrian school isn’t grounded in imperial evidence
Don't you mean empirical evidence you fucking retard?
and no, the Austrian school is based around first principles and formal logic.

Empirical evidence needs a theoretical framework to be understood, or else you come to retarded conclusions like "ww2 got us out of the great depression".

>>24541068
This "median" is bullshit statistic because due to this pic

>>24541235

Everyone born after the gold standard ended was not able to accumulate wealth , maybe a few of generation x but that's it.
Outside of a few burger states the west is a total boomer ponzi scheme with all other generations being poorer than 1850s workers only not noticing it due to excess food allowing neet life.

>>24534452
Mean only 2x median
Belgium confirmed hardest place in the world to make it.

>>24541235
Based and Austrian pilled

>>24541139
Food prices WILL go up next, it's inevitable.
It's only being held down by America's status as world reserve currency.

>>24535364
America during the gilded age was a free market with no central bank and was massively successful.

>>24534452
>bad is wrong
Bad, wrong
Badong

>>24541139
tldr money printer goes brrrrrrrr and that money flows into assets and not into wages, because why would it?
Stop the printer aka gold or bitcoin standard and you'll resume to normalcy again.

>>24538779
I bought a 2,500 sqft house in bumfuck Ohio for 100k.

I think the anon you responded to foundbthe problem, you want to live in a big city. And wouldn't think twice about moving to some hick town where you can buy a house for way cheaper.

Government intervention is the reason everything's so fucked.

Why are communists such massive bootlickers?

>>24534452
where the hell is Germany

>>24535332

Housing market is a bit fucked at the moment

We have pretty stagnant wage growth

Our huge natural resources are pillaged by mining companies that pay us little to no tax and then demand subsidies cause they employ so many people.

We have a problem with murdoch media dominance, especially in Queensland. Queensland is sort of our equivalent of a "swing state", and murdoch has complete dominance of the state's media. See the petition Kevin Rudd (former glorious leader) launched to try and pressure the government to do something about it. Even one of our former right-wing prime ministers went on state tv and slammed the murdoch propaganda

Our supermarkets are basically a duopoly and pressure farmers to work on razor thin profit margins. They massively undercut prices with their "generic brand" products, which people buy as they are usually running tight budgets

Our state-owned media (ABC) pushes identity politics, which drives endless but useless conversation. This distracts and alienates citizens and pushes them back into mudoch/fairfax news orgs where they are fed conspiracy theories and lies. If I was more conspiracy-minded I would think this was intentional from our (currently right wing) government.

Also our current glorious leader is the equivalent of a used car salesman trying to sell us a pile of shit.

Theres more but thats a taste.

Oh and now we're in a trade war with china and will probably end up cow towing to their genocidal regime because our leaders are cucked as fuck

>>24539378
kek imagine thinking you're an economist, seeing whats going on today, and then deciding its the free market's fault?

All these things you just described are the result of overregulation and government intervention. Also money printing -- who benefits the most off of inflation? those who own property. Who owns a whole lot of property? GM, Walmart, Amazon(to a lesser extent than stores but they own more than me or you)

>>24541721

rightfully not there, because Germans impoverish their citizens and families to feed an ever expanding party state. same is also true for the netherlands. Greeks and Italians - the nations that Germany effectively saved through free money - are on average wealthier than Germans. It's a fucking clown world.

>>24541139
My take is:

Prices have only remained low on things you cannot import. Healthcare, Education, Housing, and other goods have remained cheap(TVs, Appliances, Cars, Computers), only because we are the reserve currency and China will accept our dollars. We import goods from foreign countries who demand the dollar, which means we can get them cheap. The way our printer is going, I wouldn't be surprised if China said "Nope we want gold now beccause you won't stop printing and debasing your currency" or any other payment method than the USD. Then we will see the true inflation start coming from the flooding of USD from foreign countries back to the US. Man i'd hate to hold it then.

Also food prices remain relativly cheap because of the retarded food subsidies we provide. However we do see inflation reflected in them. In April 2020. food price rose by 7% on average.

>>24541298
Go check how much it took the poorest workers of the gilded age to own a house.

Protip: a NEW house purchase was less than a year of the lowest wages.

FUCK ALL KEYNSIANS

>>24542133
This.
The only reason houses are expensive is because LEFTISTS wanted the government to print money and pump it into the housing market.

>>24534452
>We also looked for ways to bring real estate prices down.
the entire US economy is built on propping up real estate prices. If you bring them down rents stagnate as demand moves from rental units to cheap real estate. If rent stagnates then rentals go belly up. If rentals start going belly up then investment banks that own huge mortgage backed securities start hemorrhaging income. If banks hemorrhage money on MBS then they're also losing capital they would be pouring into productive assets. Now stocks start hemorrhaging, which leads to financing issues in publicly traded companies, which leads to layoffs, which causes aggregate demand to shrink and demand for real estate to continue shrinking... rents will recover quickly as home owners lose their homes because they can no longer make mortgage payments, but by then a huge chunk has been carved out of the economy and we're spiraling towards depression.

There is no solution to this problem. At the end of the day, capitalism is built on a heightening over-production crisis because labor produces X amount but is only paid a fraction of X to use to consume. The remaining surplus goes, increasingly, not into profits, but instead into deepening capital intensity because firms need to increase their productivity per laborer to remain competitive. The result is higher and higher rates of production which must be consumed to economically justify that production, but less income with which to consume that production.

The impending collapse of capital has been put off by an increasing trend towards financialization of the US and global economies which has propped up rates of profit by overleveraging the economy's assets, and in particular, over leveraging to real estate debt. High rates of profit keep capital out of unproductive assets like precious metals, there by propping up employment rates. Of course this is not sustainable.

>>24538415
As an American, I can confirm this comment is completely true.

>>24542493
>capitalism is built on a heightening over-production crisis
This has nothing to do with capitalism, and has everything to do with central banks and government intervention artificially stimulating housing prices.

Free markets by themselves are extremely stable.
Socialism and government intervention in markets always results in collapse.

>>24542807
if they didn't do that capitalism would have already collapsed. Financialization esp. of real estate is the reason the stagflation crisis wasn't the end.

>>24542973
>if they didn't do that capitalism would have already collapsed.
If they didn't do that then there wouldn't be a housing bubble and prices for housing would constantly come down. Capital would flow to actual production instead of being trapped in non-productive assets.
You're right about it "collapsing" if the government stopped doing it now though. If they did, there would be a massive recession but it would be good thing because resources would be reallocated to their most productive ends and worker would be able to afford housing again.

Capitalism will never "collapse".

GRAND DUCHY OF LUXEMBOURG ftw

>>24542493
This unironically a fiat currency problem in any way over production only happened due to fiat currency even in it's gold standard form.

Look in this way imagine a bitcoin country, the rich industrialist monopolize shit , if they don't use their wealth and bury it or burn it so to speak then everyone bitcoins in the nation becomes more worthy and gain higher buying power.

On a fiat currency this is not the case and bankers need to prevent wealth accumulation and monopolies since the rational choice for the rich is to buy other shit and inflate assets since they are aware their fiat loses value.

Now look at the over production problem on a bitcoin economy if there is over production indeed there would be mass unemployment , but this would force also people to waste their bitcoin savings which would add more supply in circulation which will automatically reduce crypto purchasing powers forcing richfags to buy shit or lose the purchasing power thus redistribute wealth from top to bottom(due to the fact that the poorest are forced to waste their savings thus diluding that bitcoin power).

On a fiat standard overproduction has the same problem described above but governments are forced to inflate to reduce that overproduction and making everyone poorer in the process.

The main problem when you look at the big picture is that fiat standards make saving worthless thus all capital is reinvested as it goes up causing overproduction in the first place.
On a pure bitcoin & gold standard , the rich would not be overproducing since they would be saving and they saving remove currency from circulation making the rest society richer in the process as the currency in the hands of the poorest members of society gain purchasing power.
Basically everything reaches an equilibrium , overproduction is basically a fiat process due to entropy reducing everything "saving" power thus forcing everyone to invest in shit to surf inflation.

>>24541374
The "gilded age" followed one of the largest subsidies in history, with around 12% of all land in the US going to railroad companies in a single 1862 act, and more than half of all US land gifted to railroads- mostly the big three- in the following decade, with a massive consolidation starting at the same time as the long depression in 1873, which itself was largely a result of the credit mobilier scandal, which was a huge grift involving congress which inflated railroad production costs to the benefit of railroad investors.

https://fee.org/articles/the-distorting-effects-of-transportation-subsidies/

>>24542493
>>24542973
>>24543159
Continue

And as the government get's in on the fiat system to prevent that overproduction by stimulating demand it also saves shit investments.

Thus now we have government stimulating to increase shit of things like stonks while the real economy is bleeding.
Or governments stimulating to prevent real estate prices going down which has rekt a generation but if they went down they would rekt the banking system.

Basically we live in clown world thanks to keynes , this stimulation shit to prevent overproduction as i pointed is a purely fiat system problem since overproduction is not a problem in a non fiat system.

And every time they stimulate to increase demand for the worthless shit the economy get's more and more disconnected to reality to the point that the things they are stimulating now like real estate prices are harming society and wil lead to a full blown communist revolution since those that own nothing will vote to seize everything.

Seriously keynsians are evil son of a bitches, they have infiltrated all higher education to shill this shit that they saved capitalism when keynes himself was probably a soviet spy.

>>24535090
inflation is only good for the state those close to the monetary creation

>>24543218
>with around 12% of all land in the US going to railroad companies in a single 1862 act, and more than half of all US land gifted to railroads- mostly the big three
This was only one sector dude. Also these railroads were massive failures while the Vanderbilt railroads were actually successful.

>long depression in 1873,
It was essentially a myth.
https://wiki.mises.org/wiki/Long_Depression

>>24538729
>2) unregulated markets of any kind always lead to monopolies.
There is no logical or empirical evidence to support this wild claim
inb4 standard oil

>>24543617

Dutch East India Company would like a word

>>24543300
>This was only one sector dude
No it wasn't, read the article. The 1862 act granted railroads all land within a 15 mile radius of the proposed rail lines, which became the vast majority of the industrial land in the US. Railroads effectively controlled all US industry for decades as a result of US land grants in the '60s.

>Also these railroads were massive failures
They were successes for the investors who owned enough capital to hang on through a few years of momentary illiquidity Gould and >Vanderbilt included, and could reap the benefit of the massive consolidation of smaller railroads.

>>24536212
yep, am moving out of here asap

>>24534452
The Price of Tomorrow by Jeff Booth is what you want to read for pro deflation arguments. He's been on a lot of podcasts lately too so check him out there if interested.
If you are interested in sound money you can read the old Austrian economists like Mises, you can also just read the Bitcoin Standard and the upcoming Fiat Standard by Saifedean

>>24543300
>>24543877
also, once congress fired the first shot, it became common for state and municipal governments to offer huge land subsidies near rail lines or in unrelated agricultural tracts, and/or to offer huge money subsidies, to entice railroads to build through their jurisdictions instead of picking a different route. The actual rail lines occupy a tiny fraction of the land that was handed to rail companies by federal, state, and local legislators.

>>24543159
>if there is over production indeed there would be mass unemployment, but this would force also people to waste their bitcoin savings which would add more supply in circulation which will automatically reduce crypto purchasing powers forcing richfags to buy shit or lose the purchasing power
Recessions and depressions generally mean lower commodity prices and lower rates of profit on productive assets, as producers attempt to sell in a market with shrinking demand. This makes gold and bitcoin more lucrative to hold, not less. The great depression, stagflation crisis, and great recession all saw a run up of gold prices, despite that some portion of everyones savings are already stored in these assets, (esp. during the earlier two crises) while very few people store their spending money in gold/bitcoin. Imagine what that would look like to have most people's spending money evaporate if everyone had their cash in gold/bitcoin as well. This was the motivation to chip away at the USD/gold relationship in 1934 and 1971.

>>24543300
>https://wiki.mises.org/wiki/Long_Depression
This article either has misinformation in it, or is using "income" here to mean something strange. The annual real wage rate fell from about $410 to around $390 from 1873 to 1881, after seeing rapid growth from the end of the civil war to 1873, and only recovered to its pre-crash high in 1882. Rapid growth continued after the long depression ended. However, this doesn't really speak well to your overarching argument, considering how thoroughly the US economy revolved around rail subsidies at the time.

>>24543088
>If they didn't do that then there wouldn't be a housing bubble and prices for housing would constantly come down.
Yes, there would not have been a housing bubble. There also would not have been an economy. Its a "solution" that just kicked the can down the road, though the alternative was collapse.

>Capitalism will never "collapse".
bold assumption wrt something that keeps collapsing only to get put on life support for 20 years by gov intervention

>>24535090
>Inflation of 1-2% is good because that's what I was taught in school and on CNBC

>>24534789
real estate is inflated to fuck even in rural areas. i grew up in rural northeastern PA. most houses in my town worth living in (i.e. not neglected shithole homes built in 1920s with tube and wire electrical and rotting frames, or single wide trailers) are $150k+. a good wage in that town is $18-20/hour.

>>24534452
Only works in Ethnically homogeneous societies.