/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>24320807
Buy high sell low

>>24320857
damn how did you get to discover my strategy? I didn't even gave a clue. But that's not what I want to talk about

>>24320807
by low sell high. buy for long term sells and ride quick bulls for extra bux. shitcoins and altcoins will serve you well for the latter.

>>24320807
I'm a (semi) retired professional online poker player. Decided to go back to college because I wanted to something else with my life. I made about $1MM after taxes over 5 years (playing full time for 3 of those years).

Many aspects/ challenges that comes with playing online poker for a living are very similar to trading: risk management, variance, mindset, always having to perform your very best (even if you're on a downswing), managing your emotions outside "work", work/ life balance, not having a predictable income, dealing with irregular work hours when games/ markets are hot, dealing with a lot of stress sometimes etc.

Let me know if you have any specific questions.

I invested like 90% of my winnings.

>>24320807
You seem better off than most /biz/lets. There are people her who unironically didnt sell the top 3 years ago and think they are smart. What strategy are you using? Im too dumb to write my own algos so I just use very simple indicators.

One thing I started doing recently is do a series of 15-20 trades based off a few basic indicators, and set stop losses religiously. A major thing Im trying to do now is stop looking at each trade individually and instead looking at it as a series of trades, and looking out for all negative thought patterns that emerge when a trade doesnt go my way. I think my biggest issue is my mental attitude which led me to repeatedly make mistakes and enter negative feedback loops. If you havent seen it I highly recommend Mark Douglas "how to think like a professional trader" seminar on youtube, it made a lot of things "click" .

I also allow myself a few bucks to gamble on swing trading defi shitcoins which as you know can have insane movements in 1 day. Made a lot of mistakes learning the defi game I sank too much capital on high-yield farming projects because I got greedy and paid the price- and this was after I was warned that these projects pumped for a few hours maybe days after release then had massive crashes shortly after when early whales took profits, but I was greedy and didnt listen.

Dudes, I want to know your reviews about one platform: duckdao.io

Came across their Hunter Season on Twitter, this is a kind of crypto game and platform with investment modes. They made long-term partnerships and Foundation for modern blockchain-based systems.

>>24320807
>>24321049
big brain talk, me just buy the dips as the pic says when btc does a flash crash and i usually buy shitcoins that i know will recover fast then i sell after small recovery
this strategy is 100% effective literally every single time

>>24321244
What indicators tell you whether or not a shitcoin will recover fast?

>>24321308
Indicators? I just look at what it did in the past when btc did a flash crash, the most secure shitcoins are eth and link

This is probably the best thread I have ever read on /biz/

>>24321045
How much % of your capital would you invest in any one stock/crypto max?
How did you decide on keeping 100k in your bank account as opposed to any other amount?

>>24321889
Never invest more than you can afford to lose. He probably lives off the 10 percent and invests the rest. Why the fuck would you have 100,000 in fiat just siting around being lost to inflation. Leverage your money invest nigger.

>>24320807
What is your investment strategy?
All I got is DCAing

The exchanges are getting less popular in the last year. We need to support more innovative systems like gotem.io. You can stake nodes to run a decentralized version of the platform.

sorry I was afk for an hour. I'm glad the thread took off a little bit!

>>24321045
thank you for the answer, really what I wanted to know and how I imagined the thing.
Especially
>not having a predictable income
This might take strong effect on your mental, trading for a living is totally different than trading as leisure with your food money.
Question, how did you manage the money you wanted to take out, and the money you wanted to reinject in term of proportions? Did you have a specific method?

>>24321049
>You seem better off than most /biz/lets.
I'm still a faggot op and hate to be one, but thanks.

I didn't wanted to expand on my strategy but why not, I'm not smarter than anyone else, but I think just more "pragmatic" and not greedy at all (people that started mid 2017 are way richer than I am now).
Basically, I buy low and sell a bit higher. For real, I wait for dumps, big fat dumps, and buy the panic, and sell whenever I feel comfortable, exactly as >>24321244 said.

>>24321096
fuck off spam bot

>>24321244
this guys get's it

>>24321308
this is where trading skills are important. You can't buy any dump, and only time and experience can teach you when to buy.

>>24321485
thank you my fren, this is the best compliment I can get

>>24320807
day trading is a meme you are not smarter than everyone else u will spend all day trading for 3 years and break even if you are extremely lucky get a job

>>24321045
larp

>>24322381
I hear what you say, I have a job but i am planning to leave it.
Day trading is a meme, I agree, only a few traders are profitable, and after 2 years of this shit I can say I am one of them, for now.
My plan is to keep testing for a year or two, and then live of this meme, or lose it all.

>>24322216
>Basically, I buy low and sell a bit higher. For real, I wait for dumps, big fat dumps, and buy the panic, and sell whenever I feel comfortable

This is not a bad strategy. Hoe many trades do you usually do per month? Im not a pro trader by any means but I try to learn and improve. Ive learned to stop looking at short time frame charts, because day trading isnt for me. On volatile defi shitcoins I will, but for everything else I try to use daily charts, 4 hr, and 1hr only for entries. When there are big moves with a lot of volatility like this past recent dip I will monitor the 1 hr chart - when it bounces off my fibs or emas I buy and set a stop loss.
>>24322381
Day trading is very difficult indeed, its better to use longer time frames and do short/medium term swings. However there is no reason why you cant be patient, look for signals, and protect yourself by taking profits to re enter positions you believe in. Look at all the anons that didnt sell link when it hit $20 after several days of falling volume, lower highs, and falling momentum. Some poor souls probably waited too long and then panic sold at $8. If you are patient and pay attention you could have exited at $17-16 and re entered at $9-10. This is a bit easier than trying to trade dozens of times a day and beat the bots.

>>24321889
10% in one stock at the very most. Usually significantly less. It depends on how risky the stock is and your conviction. Having 10% in some meme stock like AMD or ZOOM is very different from having 10% in Coca Cola or Pfizer.
Crypto is 7-8% of my overall portfolio.
What I meant by investing 90% is that I spent the other 10% on living expenses, travelling, consooming etc. It was probably more like 15% now that I think about it though.
>>24322216
> how did you manage the money you wanted to take out, and the money you wanted to reinject in term of proportions?
If you're beating the games I played at a high winrate/ roi you really "only" needed a $100k bankroll to practically having a 0% risk of going broke. And I always had way more than that so I never really had to worry about setting money aside for poker. I would usually keep enough money across poker sites so that I could weather most downswings without having to deposit money. But not more than that. It's obviously pointless to have $100k on poker sites when that money could be invested in stocks and earning passive income.

I think my worst downswing from poker was $45k over a few weeks. And at that time I probably had a $500k+ net worth. So I was never really at risk of going broke. But it can still be pretty stresful to lose/ win large sums of money and it can really affect your life outside work.

I work at a forex broker, and I can tell you that it is 100% possible to make a living trading, but people let the fud get to them. The "95% of traders lose money" thing is true, but it's also misleading. The vast majority of retail "traders" are some combination of retarded/gambling/uninformed. It's a rarity to see people actually placing orders with stop losses or exercising any form of risk management. Manage your fucking risk, it's by far the most important thing. If you have a simple strategy that relies on a few indicators and basic fundamentals, and you manage your risk properly, you are in a better position than that 95%. Dont risk more than 2% of your capital on a trade, and set your profit targets before you go in.

The people who scream and cry and say TA doesn't work and that you can't make money trading are the people who load up RSI and bollinger bands at the default setting, look at the 15 minute chart for EURUSD, and dump their whole stack leveraged 100x. Don't let the crabs get you, if you're already profitable, dont fuck things up by going for the big score, keep making consistent profits and compounding will take care of the rest.

>>24322473
>Hoe many trades do you usually do per month?
I am roughly at 15 trades a month.
I tend to the exact same conclusions as you, short-term is for quick bucks shitcoins and DEFI, but otherwise, I now only trade on 1h chart at least, 4h most of the time. I completely stopped and forbid myself to put a finger on margin trading again, I lost my money every single time I tried this shit.

>When there are big moves with a lot of volatility like this past recent dip I will monitor the 1 hr chart - when it bounces off my fibs or emas I buy and set a stop loss.
This is exactly my moves, I use a lot of fib retracements, and support lines, no other indicators. I also try to trust my gut because sometimes you know when a dip is coming to an end, lower spyke volume, fake sell pressure on exchanges, high proportion of shorters coming in the market etc.

Call me a retard because I know I am one, but one part of my strategy is that I don't use stop-losses. I know some day I will lose it all, but so far this brought me so much money. If I didn't catch the bottom, I add more money on new downsides, and again if I need, lowering my average entry. Every fucking time, for now, I made money on moves like this. This is martingale 101, but done properly, on solid coins and not shitcoin flavor of the week, I proved it to be safe.
If I want to make it as a living, I know I will have to polish this aspect of my strat and I am currently working on it.
Where do you put your stops for instance? I use to buy areas where people put their stops so I'm having hard time finding good spots...!

Oh and did I mention it? Never be greedy, I fix myself a taking profit limit, and get off way too early every time, but in profit nonetheless. This saved my life many times.

>>24322567
But what if i only have 200 Euros? how the fuck am i supposed to trade with 2 euros

>>24322563
Thank you again, I can totally relate and understand what you say, except that you can substract a zero to every amount you said above.
Did you have a daily routine? Sport? Social life etc. How did you managed your emotions?

>>24322567
screencapped, pure gold. Thanks for sharing.
>Dont risk more than 2% of your capital on a trade, and set your profit targets before you go in.
Sure, this is trading 101, I just ignored that those 95% of traders was shitty retail wannabe traders

>>24322614
Get a job, I don't know. Being a winning trader isnt about being some nu-nostradamus like cryptotwitter pretends to be. Your goal should be to minimise risk, not maximise profit. Even risking 5% per trade, 10 losses in a row - which will happen eventually - is a 40% drawdown.

>>24322172
If you can discipline yourself into DCA, then you are ready to scalp or grid trade.

>>24322680
hmm thats a good advice. ill keep that in mind

>>24322614
Learn about risk management, he didn't said "invest 2% of your capital" he said "never risk more than 2%", this is totally different.
Playing with your 200 Euros, and risking 2% means you have a stop a -2% of your entry.
If you prefer a stop at -4%, then you can play with 100 euros.
This changes with leverage trading of course.

>>24322563
>completely stopped and forbid myself to put a finger on margin trading again, I lost my money every single time I tried this shit.

Ha same, in my case it was too tempting to go to shorter time frames when trading on margin. I will work on it and when Im better more disciplined and have a larger wallet I will try to conquer it.
>This is martingale 101, but done properly, on solid coins and not shitcoin flavor of the week, I proved it to be safe.
Done in a bullrun on solid coins I dont think this is bad, since on crypto we have so many scam wicks. If you have a sizeable wallet its also not so important, since you can afford to hold positions for years. That is not my case so I need to protect my capital because if I dont set stop losses then I risk getting stuck with all negative positions and no more money to trade or to buy dips after corrections like the one we just had.

As of now Im setting my stops at a set % down of when I enter a trade for the reasons above usually 5 or 6%. Its very frustrating to get stop hunted, but Ive lost out many opportunities in stocks and crypto by not having set stops. Now this is just what Im trying at the moment to see if it corrects some of my past mistakes. Another thing that goes along with it is waiting a bit more for confirmation before I enter - if I buy as soon as I get a signal chances are there will be a few wicks down to hunt the stops just below it before it goes up again, so I bite my nails and try to wait for this to be over and an uptrend confirmed before I enter

>>24322765
this is fucking scary... I have the feeling that I could have write down everything in your post...
Except maybe for the stop-losses, I have been hunted down so many times that I have some kind of PTSD of the stop-loss and I hate to use them. I prefer being stuck in some position (not all my wallet indeed) for months.
I completely assume that it is idiotic as I should just take a loss and make 15x more winning trade behind, but I just can't use stop for now. I am working on it i can assure you!

>>24322737
Leverage doesn't affect that, as long as you calculate your position size properly, and set your stop before you get liquidated. There are plenty of calculators online, most major forex brokers have good ones.

>>24322678
np
> Did you have a daily routine
I would usually try to play/ wake up during the same hours (usually around 5 pm to 1 am). But if games were "too good to quit" I would sometimes have to stay up all night which would really mess with my sleep/ schedule for the following few days..
> Sport?
Not really.. But I eat/ ate pretty healty and would go for a lot of walk.
> Social life
I'm an introvert so I don't really need a lot of socializing to be happy. I haven't really had any good friends for the past few years :/ . I had a girlfriend for some time and went to parties/ social events every now and then. That was honestly all the socializing I needed.
When I broke up with my gf I did feel a bit lonely at times. But I did a lot of travelling while playing and met some people through that. I also talked with other pro poker players (some of them my friends) on discord.
> How did you managed your emotions?
I've always been pretty good at this (but far from perfect). It can be a lot harder than it sounds to play your A-game when you're down a lot of money. Or quit when you're not playing well. You get better at it over time.
Having a lot more money than you technically need definitely helps so the swings never are life-changing. My swings from the stocks market were usually be bigger than my swings from poker.
I would usually work 6-7 days per week. When I had a really bad couple of days, got burned out from poker or wasn't happy with how I was playing I would usually take some time off. Sometimes a couple of days. Sometimes a few weeks. When I got back to "work" I would almost always feel better and/ or play better. It's very important to take breaks when you're your own boss and do something as demanding/ exhausting as trading/ poker for a living.

>>24322854
what I meant was that I usually would play between 5 pm and 1 am. I would usually go to bed at like 3-4 am and wake up 7-8 hours later.

>>24322614
Bro secure a job first. I took a huge opportunity cost to focus on studies for 6 years but last year I started my first job at 25. However I'm making 68k euros a year. Now I have a comfy 20k euros saved and only started to learn about economics and investing at 26. I guess it is what it is but I'm in a great position because I'm EU and have 0$ debts.

And even I only started with 150 euros in crypto last weekend. I am waiting on my verification to go through to my Degiro account.

Side question: any EU bros use Degiro?

>>24320807

use a sizeable amount of money for trading and invest atleast half in LINK and continue doing so.

>>24322854
>I'm an introvert so I don't really need a lot of socializing to be happy
hey i never meant to fool anyone, we are on 4chan and i am introverted too. But I like to see my close friends IRL because I still have somes and I think this is important.
>Having a lot more money than you technically need definitely helps so the swings never are life-changing.
Very important advice here, you need to play with small portion of your capital, at any game or trade, at any time, to lower the emotional attachment.
Thank you very much for sharing aspects of your life, this really helps me

>>24322905
I've been using Degiro for some of my investments for 5 years. Their fees are low and they have cheap leverage (1.25% / year). The platform/ interface is pretty shitty but I don't really care. Haven't had any major problems with them.

>>24322824
Yes Im still learning to deal with the psychology of stop losses, because it hurts so much to get stopped out of a position that moons the next day. Missed out on some covid stock winners like that. Im still figuring it out, because it also hurts so much to get stuck on things that are down 60-70% for a year and think of what you could have done with that money...I had a lot of money tied up in stocks that I didnt set stops on, so I couldnt buy the amazing march dip. So yeah, im still figuring all this shit out and its been painful to make so many mistakes but I really want to learn this

>>24322765
I really want to stay in touch with you, you are way too similar to me, by your strategy and your past experiences.
Do as you want, send me a mail at hag62np at yopmail dot com if you feel like it

>>24322824
My man, you have a profitable strategy. All it takes is a couple of unlucky months to put your account in the dirt. starting from near 0 would put you literally a decade behind. Set stops now, and secure your future

>>24322952
thanks bro. Do you live in a country with euros? I live in denmark we got kroners here so I'll be converting

>>24322905
Talking investment and thinking of your future at 26 is fucking based. You'll end up rich. Just diversify.
Can't help you with Degiro sorry!

>>24323027
I know right?... True wise words, I will, thanks.

>>24322977

Checked. Maybe kek is telling me I should hit you up but honestly anon I feel embarrassed and want to apologize if I gave the impression Im a real trader or know wtf Im doing because Im a broke noob thats terrible at it, if you have found a way to get consistent monthly returns you should be the one giving advice.

>>24323052
Thanks for the encouragement. Whats your story? I feel like in life we should play the hand we were dealt, in my case I got gifted the gift of intelligence/patience/analytical mind. I'm no chad or athlete but I can code and read fast like a motherfucker so I'm using this to my advantage.

Anyone got economics/investing book recommendations?

>>24323081
come on this is /biz/, we are all shit retails traders that need to learn. I just felt like we have a lot in common, and a lot to share.
Also check these
>>24322933
>>24322600
>>24322440
I have kek with me, and my pepe plush by my side.

>>24323091
>Whats your story?
here comes the blog post:
I am a boomer millenial father of 3, inb4 normie, I discovered 4chan in 2011 going from /fit/ to /pol/ to /biz/ and these 3 boards changed my life forever.
I have a manual skill and I am planning to open up my own store, but I need cash first, and I fell in love with trading 3 years ago, so here I am.

I can strongly recommend you "Think and Grow Rich" Napoleon Hill in 1937, very cliché but good read about rich people mindset and will power strength.

>>24323198
Thats cool. I assume you live in the US ? What kind of store? Thanks for the book rec I've heard of it I will check it out. God speed anon

>>24320807
This year I made significant gains and I started managing my portfolio seriously once it hit 6 digits. All I do is manage the risk of it while trying to achieve the maximum gain while keeping the risk as low as I can, although if the potential ROI is huge I am willing to accept extra risk.
I have a math degree but I don't use it for valuing the equity and risk of my whole portfolio, although I would spend lots of time researching individual positions and comparing it to others. I determine the risk of my whole folio by estimating how much of it is exposed to each assets price risk, protocol risks, it's an intuitive process.
Tokens sorted by risk are:
>Stablecoins < btc < eth < DeFi tokens
I don't invest in others
Platforms:
>Uniswap < aave/crv/balancer < yearn < harvest
I try to increase the risk and gain when the market appears bullish and decrease it gradually when its reaching the top.
I have successfully used all the big DeFi projects and did get burned sometimes but the gains always exceed it. Borrowing, lending, pooling, yield farming, liquidity mining. Anything that adds to my APY. I'm close to half a mil now and I'm very confident I'll make it by keeping this up

>>24323228
I'll stay in the cliché: no, I am french, and a french baker. I want to sell my baguettes!

>>24323048
np. Make sure you look into the difference between using manual and automatic currency conversions. If you're exchanging large amounts manual is significantly cheaper.

Nordnet has slightly better exchange rates for currency fwiw. But I'm not sure if you can deposit euroes to Degiro if you live in a country without euroes (ask them).

>>24320807
I would like to do trading myself, but crypto to crypto trading is taxable event. I want to stay in the market for a long time, but at the end of year I would have to submit my tax returns and pay taxes. So, I do not have liquid cash for taxes at the end of the year. How do you bridge this gap?

>>24323247
>Tokens sorted by risk are:
>>Stablecoins < btc < eth < DeFi tokens

so DeFi tokens are the most stable? how come ?


>>24323261
sounds good man I can imagine the extra mind stimulation feels good while working a manual job? I'm a software engineer so I already am used to reading and being analytical/over thinking all day every day.

>>24323290
Degiro accepts kroners! but thanks for the tip I will def look into it

>>24323311
Ascending sort, DeFi has highest price risk in the list

>>24323247
>I started managing my portfolio seriously once it hit 6 digits
That is what I wanted to do, but I am reaching 30k€ and already want to do so, because fuck it! this is good starting money for me and I don't want to lose it all now (I only invested 4k).

>I determine the risk of my whole folio by estimating how much of it is exposed to each assets price risk
How do you determine an asset price risk? For instance bitcoin, even if it is quite stable, in march he reminded us that he can drop 50% in a day if he wanted to, isnt it?

>I try to increase the risk and gain when the market appears bullish and decrease it gradually when its reaching the top.
Damn, this sounds stupid and obvious, but this is one the greatest advice I just read... I will work on this.
This lead me to a question, how do big hedge funds, or even you, would manage liquidity over exposition on the market? In a bull one, and in a bear one?
50% cash 50% crypto in a bear market for instance? Or way less asset and way more cash?
I need to work on that!

>>24320807
yeah bro just look at the memelines bro, i know what they mean bro , im going to be a longterm winner bro , i will beat the algos bro

>>24323308
oh shit this sucks...
In France, the only taxable events are Crypto to Fiat (euro), I can't help you my fren.
I just decided to pay my taxes this year... 30% of all your profits, this sucks but we have to pay the jews...

>>24323373
No, even better, I will walk in the algos footprints

>>24321045
How much time do you think you spent studying poker (hand reviews, sim work etc) before you started making good money?

>>24323358
I had a similar initial this year got some luck and rode the DeFi after that.
>How do you determine an asset price risk? For instance bitcoin, even if it is quite stable, in march he reminded us that he can drop 50% in a day if he wanted to, isnt it?
It's all relative, bitcoin did drop 50% but even sp500 dropped 30%, ethereum and link dropped more than btc. That's the risk, and I accept it, I'm not trying to avoid it, rather trying to figure out what is a better hold during both the green days and red days. (For example, would I be better holding 2x sp500 or bitcoin throughout the 2020?)
>This lead me to a question, how do big hedge funds, or even you, would manage liquidity over exposition on the market? In a bull one, and in a bear one?
50% cash 50% crypto in a bear market for instance? Or way less asset and way more cash?
Holding cash ain't good now cuz it's been dropping in value, you are better of having real estate or stocks, hell even taking a loan of cash and getting assets (your debt is actually shrinking during inflation)
The approach is the right one in general though, the rate of each determines the risk of your folio and different funds/investors have different goals so they set their rate accordingly. What's important is maximizing ROI of each of your position, even cash. E.g. hold stablecoins in curve pools instead of leaving them in a bank (sure it's adding some risk but it can't be compared to the risk of your 40% eth position for example)

Anyone here use renko to trade?

I never expected to see a thread like this on /biz/. So insightful and educational. With that being said, I'd like to read what you guys would recommend. I am a retard so expect an incoherent description.

I essentially threw in the towel and invested in mostly long term dividend stocks except for my bags (see name). I stopped reading about updates on potential stocks and let it all just play out and the dividends are nice and everything is going up nicely while there is potential my bags will skyrocket me to the moon but I am scared to move forward and add more/repeat this tiresome cycle. Have I learned alot from losing/winning? Yes. Would I do better this time around? Absolutely. Do I want to keep on gambling on instinct? Idk. I'd like to read what you would do in my situation

>>24321308
i have not read isiah but that qoute is in proverbs. does the bible have reposts?
original is "as iron sharpens iron, so does tounge sharpen tounge."

>>24321049
a boomer typed this post.

>>24323568
Not sure t.bh. I started winning pretty quickly but games were softer when I first started playing (like 7 years ago) and sims weren't really being used. I spent a lot of time studying while moving up stakes. I've played (and won at) pretty much all games/ formats. I would also think about theory/ concepts/ strategy a lot while I wasn't playing/ studying. It definitely helps to have an autistic obsession with poker.

Sims are very useful for learning but the most important part is that you're able to understand the "logic" behind the solutions and generalize. You don't at all need to study sims to beatlow stakes. Not even mid stakes or high stakes in some formats. You can learn a ton just by paying attention to what the best players are doing and try to understand their logic.

That being said, I honestly don't think poker is worth it as a "career" anymore unless you can get into some juicy live/ private games or you live in a poor country.

>>24323775
Thanks. I switched to PLO and I'm at 7bb/100 in the last 50k hands at the micros at Stars. The sample size is too small but it's getting my confidence up to take a shot at low stakes considering that the rake is lower and the skill level of the opponents I would say is about the same. I watch videos regularly and study sims mostly for preflop at this stage.

I've been trying to learn how to trade FOREX for a while. I understand basic shit now like trends, resistances, supports, breakouts and some indicators but I don't understand the macro-economical fundamental stuff such as the effects of a country lowering their interest rate. Anyone knows if this is important for daytraders? I suppose itd be more important for long term traders.

Also looking for general advice. What are your strategies?

Been trading for a year, but not full time like you. I have a job, though its part time and remote but i invest al my salary and live off my trading earnings.
The biggest i've learnt so far is that the markets humbles us all, whosoever the fuck you are. And also to know when to invest in low cap gems that are sure to do good. one i love right now has to be ALBT

Honestly, fucking top tier thread. Turn this shit into the sticky bois. Wouldda have saved me thousands of
Dollars and heartache to have seen this (admittedly obvious) advice a few years ago.

>>24320857
This

>>24324999

>>24322567
What are the best RSI settings?

>>24324846
damn it I am so proud of this thread, I wanted to prove /biz/ wasn't still completely full of pajeets but I wasn't hoping for this kind of result.
We used to get daily thread like this back in 2017-2018, now they are really rare I must admit...

>>24324423
>i invest al my salary and live off my trading earnings.
wow, this is ballsy but I'm miring hard

>>24320807
TeamSpeak: ts.whalepool.io
listen to these guys