/biz/ - Business & Finance

the private key and seed phrase never leave the hardware wallet unless you're a retard

web wallets pass both around like a fucking slut

software wallets still pass them around on your computer

Because you manually have to confirm each and every transaction with the device.

Lurk more

>>24249129
ngmi

>>24249177
>the private key and seed phrase never leave the hardware
...what if the hardware breaks? how do you restore it if it never leaves the wallet

>>24249599
seed phrase brainlet

>>24249618
>>the private key and seed phrase never leave the hardware
>the private key and seed phrase never leave the hardware

>>24249692
U r brainlet

>>24249692
Holy fuck you're dangerously retarded

The price lock function by itself is enough reason to go with the Trevor. Save me thousands in 2017.

>>24249820
>>24249855
so you retards still haven't answered my question, maybe your reading comprehension is a bit limited? Spent a little time in special needs growing up?

How is it different?

Software wallet:
>download electrum, create wallet, store seed phrase in a secure place
>transfer coins to wallet
>destroy software wallet
>can now restore wallet anywhere else to do transactions as needed

Hardware wallet:
>all of the above except in a $100+ dollar case for retards

Maybe you fell for a stupid scam and are a little salty about it?

it is more secure. I just bought a hardware wallet. they are on sale now if you want now is the time.

>>24249938
yes hardware wallets are a meme and you got strung along

>>24250006
>it is more secure
how is it more secure when i can do everything it does myself for free

Is the default seed phrase on these always 21 words? I can't remember that many ffs

>>24249938
If your HARDWARE WALLET breaks you buy a new HARDWARE WALLET and enter the old seed phrase into the HARDWARE WALLET. Your seed phrase never enters a computer. Ever. It only enters the HARDWARE WALLET you fucking retard.

How do I make a paper wallet

>>24249938
>I can restore it from the seed phrase anyway
>...what if the hardware breaks? how do you restore it if it never leaves the wallet

lmao are the two hemispheres of your brain not able to communicate with each other?

>>24249889
This.
Pic related

Best choice is stamping your seed in aluminum

>>24249129
When you set it up, the seed phrase is displayed on the device screen, so it never goes on your computer or online. From there you can write it down and restore as necessary. The private key is never known except by the device itself, and the seed phrase is only known by the user, who must protect it

>>24250046
Keyloggers backdoor traffic accidentally virus can follow your footprints waiting for you to slip up on the many times you are entering information on your screen. The device's chip has a security feature all of which is specifically made for crypto transactions. If your going to do it yourself at least use an airgapped labtop and not one constantly connected to the net.

>>24250085
24

>>24250276
so it's a waste of money then, I can just securely store the seed phrase like I would with a hardware wallet anyway, and restore it anywhere, got it

>>24250302
>...what if the hardware breaks? how do you restore it if it never leaves the wallet
it's called a hypothetical in conversation, but median IQ serfs like you wouldn't get it, keep coping with wasting your money on hardware wallets lmao

>>24250310
sir, you can safely unlock it now, btc is $19000 now

>>24250363
can't we change it to 12? I'm probably going to just sell this piece of shit. If I have to write down the passphrase then I may as well use my computer.
There's no use for this dumb piece of crap at all.

>>24250347
How do you know the seed or private key never leaves the device? Or if there's some malware that can read it when you plug it in?

>>24249938
You 100% sure your computer doesn't have a RAT on it? That it won't have a temporary file squirreled away somewhere with your wallet details in it that some file scrapper can get at? You don't have to worry about those things with a hardware wallet.

>>24250356
>If your going to do it yourself at least use an airgapped labtop
that's already what I do, and frequently wipe it with a fresh install, and use a lightweight linux distro

so basically hardware wallets are for brainlets who get infected with keyloggers b/c they tried downloading some hentai from limewire

>>24250374
>so it's a waste of money then, I can just securely store the seed phrase like I would with a hardware wallet anyway, and restore it anywhere, got it
You expose your private key every time send money out of your wallet.

>>24250374
please tell me what wallet you are using for Uniswap then? metamask keeps your private key on your computer

>>24250413
see >>24250414

>>24250419
doesn't matter if I'm using a newly installed void linux on a shitty laptop made before Intel management engine was even a thing

>>24250414
lmao even with an airgapped cold wallet you still enter your private keys into an device directly connected to the internet
you stink of plebbit

>>24250443
how would you sign your transaction then?

>>24250414
>that's already what I do, and frequently wipe it with a fresh install
>frequently
>so basically hardware wallets are for brainlets who get infected with keyloggers
No it's for people who value their time

>>24250320
There are consumer devices that facilitate similar seed storage methods. I have a cobo

>>24250424
It's cheaper to buy a hardware wallet than bother doing that.

>>24249129
The only reason to buy this is the price lock feature

>>24250448
i don't even airgap usually it's retarded anyway

>>24250452
the software does it

>>24250461
>>24250467
it hardly takes any time at all, but if you'd rather buy your magic hard wallet printed in a chinese factory with CCP rootkits probably embedded into the firmware, go ahead

>>24250507
Trezor is open source you douchetard

>>24250540
>hardware can't be intercepted and flashed with rogue firmware

>>24250588
Verify firmware using satoshi labs bro
Stop being a fag

>>24250588
You sure the software you're using to create the wallet is 100% secure? How do you know it's not giving you a pregenerated address?

>>24249692
go back

>>24250686
GPG and check the code or build it yourself, jesus

>>24250683
ok you win this one

>>24250704
>go back

>>24249335
this..

>>24249177
>software wallets still pass them around on your computer
just use an airlocked laptop. £30, 20yo piece of shit desktop, anything which will never go online, and you're more secure than any hardware wallet, which will have been chinked at the factory.

>>24250708
/G/ neckbeards are so obnoxious.. write it yourself pff

This is a norman board

>>24249692
anon I...

>>24250962
I don't get it. What's the point of a laptop that never goes online when wallets are gonna require internet to work?

>>24249692
lmao
the idea is to keep keys off electronic devices, especially those with internet connectivity

>>24251021
they dont require a net connection to generate a public and private key. that's all you need. just take the public key and use it on a live machine where needed, and never expose the private key to a machine which is able to get online. this is the most secure method bar none, much more secure than someone else generating a private key and selling it to you via a hardware wallet. when you want to cash out, take the private key to your live machine.

>>24250734
no u

So... ledger or trezor?

>>24249889
>price lock function
>>24250310
the fuck is this

>>24251120
Price lock is a meme.

>>24251120
it's a fuckin meme that's what
i locked in buys at 3k ama

does trezor one (old one) works with metamask integration???????

>>24249599
don't break it 5head

>>24249938
It's a fair question mate. I have one simply because it's straightforward and I don't really understand how shit stored in a paper wallet interacts with the blockchain. What this thread leaves me asking is: if the keys never leave the hardware, how do they re-activate anything on the next bit of hardware? Why don't they just die with the hardware?

>>24249129
just use an old android phone with qr codes as a hw wallet

This is the sell signal isn't it?

I have my seed phrase as a screensaver on laptop. It’s a photo of Bart Simpson writing on blackboard but it’s my seed phrase, pretty neat eh.

>>24251330
Surely nothing bad would come from this.

>>24251166
yes

>>24251378
this is may 2017 vibes with these retards coming on the board

>>24249938
you're right anon, it's exactly like you say, unironically

people defending hardware wallets are ethier shills, or brainlets, or sunk cost copers

damn, ledger nano now have insane discounts because of black friday, should i get one>? or ledger is a no go?????

>>24251432
I have all my phrases saved to a text file on my desktop but I move the last four digits to the front, never been hacked

i keep my money on an exchange, lmaoing at your life

>b-b-but not your key n-n-not your coins!!!
>b-b-but they'll exist scam!
>b-b-but they'll get hacked!

C O P E
O
P
E

Really wish there was a crypto bank where my loss or exposure of the seed won't lead to the loss of all my assets but then that defeats the whole purpose of decentralization.

>>24249938
the only case that can be made against software wallets is that you can't trust your PC, but that's pretty retarded. After all, the transaction that you sign is sent to the hardware wallet by the PC, so you'd have to trust the integrity of the signing request. There are some hw wallets that can parse the TX and then display it, but you'd have to update the hardware wallet every time the transaction layout changes or you want to use a new cryptocurrency with a different signature scheme.
The seed phrase is not actually part of the hw wallet. That still has to be stored somewhere else, and via that you can regenerate the keys on another hardware wallet, assuming it uses the same PRNG.

>>24250708
>trusting satoshi labs to verify your firmware correctly
>trusting that the program you use to verify the firmware is actually the real one made by satoshi labs

>>24249129

You can stick it safe in your asshole.

>>24251117
Definitely get ledger. It’s great. They were able to leak all my personal data to hackers and now anyone can look up who I am and take my crypto. Thanks ledger

>>24251653
Same bro, I'm so paranoid over doing anything with my crypto I'll just never cash out ig

>>24251767
but ledger seems more technologicaly advanced? i mean support more shitcoins? am i wrong? i want to buy one right now, and im worried old models trezors and ledger will not be supported with future metamask integrations

>>24250413
Is *this* your great argument for hardware wallets? That we *could* get a RAT if we went full retard? Kek
Pathetic. I'm selling my Ledger on eBay today.

>>24251319
seed phrase generates the keys
when you initialize your ledger, it's going to display the seed phrase on the screen, and this is the only time you or anyone can access it from the device
you are supposed to write down that seed phrase and keep the paper secured somewhere

jesus why is it so hard to understand?

>>24251653
It's called goybase

>>24251767
kek
>he didn't buy from Amazon or use a PO box

>>24251319
>Why don't they just die with the hardware?
keys can be generated without ever having been 'live' or ever having interacted with any blockchain. the wallet is built to create keys which will be accepted should they ever be made live.

>>24249129
Libertarian cypherpunk retarded bullshit. It's way LESS secure than storing your crypto in a desktop or online wallet. The flash memory can die, it could get lost or stolen. Or in the far future, computers might not be compatible with it.

Does both trezor and ledger require you to save your own seed on paper? I was considering buying one but now that just seems entirely useless...

>>24250683
Firmware vulnerabilities like this also come to mind. Hardware wallets are shit.

https://decrypt.co/37651/ledger-exploit-makes-you-spend-bitcoin-instead-of-altcoins

https://thenextweb.com/hardfork/2018/03/20/ledger-nano-s-hack-cryptocurrency/

>>24252792
So what is the best option right now to keep multiple coins?

>this thread

why is every hw wallet thread always full of -200iq brainlets? if you are not able to comprehend the function and convenience of a hardware wallet, just fuck off back to plebbit for real.
most of you dont even have a slight idea of the concept of those things, but sure, just offline sign your transactions on airgapped software wallets. what could go wrong.

>>24252848
just buy an old computer. format and reinstall o.s. do not connect to internet at any point. transfer wallets to it via usb. generate keys on there. back them up on multiple usb drives. transfer public keys to your live computer via usb. job done, as long as it never goes online then not one method, not one person on earth until we have quantum computers, is getting to those keys.

>Hardware wallet:
Any other wallet including hardware attack vectors. Whoever considers a hardware wallet more secure than any other wallet is a tech illiterate coomsoomer who should never think about the term investing

>>24250962
or, unlike a aspie retard, you can use a dedicated hardware wallet and you don't have to do retard gymnastics to transfer signed transaction data to an internet-connected computer

>>24252923
hardware wallets have had keys generated by someone else. you'd better believe that one day some chink will figure out a way to extract those at the point of manufacturing. creating them yourself on a pc with zero connection to the internet means that not one person on earth can fuck you ever.

>>24250374
8/8 trolling, well done m8

>>24252969
you generate the key with the wallet itself, with a RNG

>>24253012
>Believing the ads
Idiot. The key is generated centralized on their servers when you connect your retard chinese plastic gimmick.

>>24253035
retard, you can generate your own seed phrase and import it to ledger

>>24253012
ok well even if you generate them yourself, you do so at an unnecessarily inflated cost. i mean you can get a crappy old desktop for like 20 quid, why spend so much on a usb meme wallet?

>>24250414
Ah yes. Its much easier than just buying a ledger. Need to buy a laptop and keep reisntalling operating system and other crap

>>24249692
Get out of crypto ASAP you are severely mentally disabled friend

>>24250507
An airgapped laptop is not airgapped anymore when you connect it to the internet anyway and your private keys are exposed to your browser/ dapp website/ OS/ extensions and so you have plenty of attack points, while the hardware wallet keeps the keys nice and secure and you can use it on any laptop with any browser/ extension, even if it's infected.
It's probably not worth it for poorfags with less than $10k tho, but once you get to a certain level a hardware wallet is comfy as fuck.

>>24253099
Go back to /cvg/ this place is for adults only

>>24251095
your live machine could be infected, the OS could be infected, the website you sell on could be infected, the extensions you use could be infected.
all that airlocked laptop security goes away in three seconds once you enter your private key on a machine connected to the internet

>>24252751
>seed on paper? I was considering buying one but now that just seems entirely useless...
how else would you restore the wallet in case you lose it or it gets stolen? write it on a piece of aluminum sheet and bury it.

>>24252430
yeah i get that (and have done it), I don't get where the great seed phrase repository lies? if seed phrases can re-activate wallets of all descriptions, where do they come from? are they also part of the blockchain itself?

>t. not stupid just fucking ignorant

>>24253099
because that crappy old desktop can't connect to the internet without exposing your private key, while the hardware wallet can be connected to the internet without exposing the private keys.
geez, it's like I'm talking to dumb 5 year olds that say a leather wallet is useless when they can keep the money in a glass jar.

>>24253099
because I'm not a poor pajeet and I like the convenience

>>24253405
seed phrase is really just RANDOMLY GENERATED 24 WORDS. If you are using a software wallet, the randomness might come from your mouse movement. If you are using a hardware wallet, the randomness might come from an embedded chip

they have to be randomly generated because then the only person on this earth that knows is you, who are reading those words off the ledger device

I didn't get the second question. What do you mean that they are "part of the blockchain itself?"

Seed phrase -> your private key -> your public key -> your address (assuming we are talking about Ethereum).

The only thing that goes onto the blockchain is your address.

Holy shit I swear most people don't even understand what they are investing into

>>24253405
all the seed phrases, private and public keys already exist in the blockchain, when you "create" one you just choose one of them

>>24253349
>he doesn't know about making an offline transaction

>>24253405

>>24253493
the newfags don't understand it, as usual, never will. bet they can't understand how the address was made via cryptography. this is why losing money is easy.

>>24253502
tell me how you are going to move your signed transaction to your internet-connected computer to broadcast it then? Do you type the entire payload by hand?

>>24252666
cheers m8. what vets the keys to accept them? the blockchain transaction itself? does each wallet provider buy sets of phrases to re-sell? how the fuck does the blockchain know to accept certain phrases, or are you on an external lobe and not interacting with it at the retrieval phrase level?

>>24253385
I dunno, I assumed that the ledger held my seed/key and I wouldn't have to worry about writing it down. I think instead I'll stay with my paper wallet, and possibly look into stamping it on aluminum. And when I wanna cash out I'll just reformat an old laptop and have it offline only. I was not aware it was possible to send transactions without going online so that should remove a lot of my anxiety.

>>24253499
halle-fucking-lujah! and with this response I will return to dribbling on my lap. thanks mang.

>>24249129
this, i dont trust hardware wallets much more since you need to backup on paper usually anyway.
>what is "wrench attack"

which is why i prefer smart contract wallets (such as squirrel.finance)
>delayed whitelisting
>daily limits
all enforced onchain by an open source smart contract you deploy yourself.

You aren't going to make it if you have to fret over $100

>>24253662
This dude. IMagine being such a nerd that you need to act like some high level gangster. Truth is the elities already knows what they need to.

I buy coins, they go up, i sell. That's all i know. And that's all i care about. Then some nerd comes along and tells me i need his shit stained ledger.

>>24253590
holy shit I don't even know you truly don't understand or just baiting

>>24249129
lmao just use cash, why bother with crypto?

I needed the laughs from this thread. Thank you seriously

>>24249129
Hardware wallet needs you to push the PHYSICAL buttons to confirm transactions. Sometimes the best security is physical security.

I got a nano S and nano and I love them. Works with BTC, ETH and erc20, etc etc. Even Monero works fine with the GUI

>>24253662
>Tyrone finds out you have crypto
>want some of dem beetkoins
>kidnaps you with his boi Lemichael
>ties you to a chair in the basement
>hits your kneecaps with a wrench
>bang bang bang
>"b-b-but my squirrel finance tokens are t-time l-l-locked, I can't s-send them to you e-e-even if I w-w-wanted to"
>"squeerl finance? you playin' wif me boi? gib me dem beetkoins, cracka"
>bang bang bang

>>24253607
well, it does keep it, but since it is only one device it means it's only kept in one place, and that's never a good thing, you always need copies just in case shit happens

>>24254098
>not shooting blacks (or niggers as I like to call them) on sight
wtf is wrong with Americans?

>>24254098
based

>>24253543
yes

>>24250374
>keep coping with wasting your money on hardware wallets lmao
>wasting money
>he spends hours securing his airgapped laptop and wiping it with fresh installs
>he manually generates transactions before porting them to the broadcasting computer using verifiably clean USB sticks

what is wasting time what is time is money
Buy Bonded Finance and you might realize your true value as a human

>>24254098
>what is a decoy wallet

>>24249129
It can be airgapped and stored more easily

what if i trade on binance doe

>>24251120
fucking newfag
you can lock the price of your bitcoin using a ledger wallet so it doesnt go down

>>24249692
You don't use the seed phrase to make transactions you dumbass.

If you use an electronic wallet, even on a USB, then shit like keyloggers can see and record your private key since it's exposed to your PC environment.
Even if you sign the transaction while offline, the logger will still transfer the logged key to the hacker the very second you connect back to the internet.

Even if you make a paper wallet, key loggers can record your key as it's displayed to you on the monitor so you can write it down.

With a hardware wallet, the private key is never exposed to your PC working environment, since it's in a separate hardware module within the hardware wallet.

>>24253543
>Not willing to type for a couple hours in order to send 15 bucks.

Ngmi

>>24254602
It's like you don't even want that starbucks coffee

>>24249692
stay poor

my Trezor is going to be coming in the mail today, what am i in for?

>>24253099
Because you don't want a large unsightly and otherwise completely useless antique desktop computer sitting smack dab in the middle of your living space? lmao?

>>24250310
better unlock noye or you'll lose on the upswing.

>>24255138
have you stretched your anus yet? Also get some condom, you don't want shit on your shitcoins.

>>24255138
>what am i in for?
The hologram sticker being stuck to the factory worker's ballsack before being applied to the box.

>>24255289

>>24255250
>>24255289
so i should return it in case it's compromised like OPs? he did post this thread like four times since yesterday

>>24255390
lmao think for yourself, tranny

>>24254098
i get you anon but is that really going to happen

they'll take the daily limit and schdaddle

>or just give them whats on your metamask and dont even mention your smart contract wallet (thats sorta the point of it too, how would they find it)

>>24255435
retard

>>24255446

>>24255470

>>24255491

>>24255439
or just give the dumb niggers the public key and show them the bitcoin on there in the block explorer
it's not like they'll know you need a private key to spend it

>>24255513
>>24255491

>>24249692
alright anon, I'll spoonfeed you
Hardware wallets have a master seed phrase, when you set it up it will tell you that phrase.
The device then algorithmically generates keys for multiple different cryptocurrencies from that master key phrase. The algorithm always works the same way, so on any ledger device if you enter your seed phrase you will recover your keys from all of your accounts.
The master key, as well as the generated keys, never leave the device. Requests go from your computer to the device to be signed and then back to the computer. The hardware wallet is always responsible for signing, so there is little risk of someone hacking your computer and stealing your keys.

>>24249938
10/10 bait, can trick the <2 year old midfags.

>>24252876
This thread was enlightening will now create my smart contract pointed to a hardware wallet instead of a Mew wallet. Thanks Anons

>>24252715

>The flash memory can die

My understanding is that even if it dies you can buy a new hardware wallet and restore your wallet on the new device using your seed phrase.

For me the biggest security risk is that a hardware wallet looks like just that - a hardware wallet. A burglar will immediately recognize it as such whereas he would have to find it in your computer otherwise (you do use full disk encryption r-right?).

I still can be wrong, is there some anon to confirm or debunk the shit I wrote?

>>24251432
I don't believe you, post screenshot or it never happened.

>>24250276

So the hardware wallet has an alphabetic keyboard to enter the seed phrase? Or does it have some additional software GUI that you need to install - preferably on an airgapped computer?

>>24257207
on ledger you get to use left and right keys to choose the characters of each seed phrase

it's tedious but you don't enter your seed phrase that often tho

>>24249215
device breaks
>so long, bitcoinerinos!

>>24257065
it's such a small device you could easily hide it where no burglar would ever consider looking. Could make a hole in your floorboards and put it in there under the carpet or just throw it behind a wardrobe or something

>>24257269
bip39 wordlist has only 2048 different words, so you only need to input like 3 letters for each word
tedious, but not that terrible

Pic related is more secure than any hardware wallet. Airgapped laptop anon is right, the only reasonable thing to do is generate your private key YOURSELF on your OWN airgapped machine that never connects to the internet, and then ferry unsigned/signed transactions back and forth to your live machine for broadcast

>>24249692
Kek, maybe you should research the absolute basics of how a hardware wallet works?

You can use a ledger with electing sv

>>24259313
Electrum*
>>24257447
Wrong that’s what your private key unlocks. Your device which is used / needed to sign a transaction (send $)

You fuckers are all idiots and are making things more complicated than they should be. Just download trust wallet on a cellphone that never connects to the internet, generate a wallet and store all of your shit there. It's not that hard. The seed never leaves the device. and it's free you faggots

retard alert

its okay though, we all have to learn eventully

>>24259472
sure thing goy, just trust (((apple))) and (((google)))

>>24250414
This but if/when you find out you're a brainlet it's already too late.