/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>23997466
Roubini capitulated too

https://news.bitcoin.com/dr-doom-nouriel-roubini-bitcoin-store-of-value/

>>23997466
>>23997508
is this the top or just the beginning? im getting a bit excited today and thats not a good sign

>>23997557
Just the beginning

The top is a retarded concept now

1_Bitcoin has lower inflation than fiat
2_Stablecoins allow people to cash out without leaving the market

This two things make bubbles like 2013 & 2017 hard , but a constant slow growth totally possible.
At least relative to constantly inflating fiat if boomers stop lying about inflation by adding real estate back againt to inflation indexes then bitcoin will stop going up.

>>23997466
Fiat is bullshit money with an infinite supply. Bitcoin is bullshit money with a finite and known supply. It’s not that fucking hard. How did this asshole become a billionaire?

>pump bitcoin
>masses buy and you sell
>drops like a lead balloon
all going to plan.

>>23997634
Boomer accumulated money during gold standard and then for the next 49 years they surfed waves of pumped assets and stocks by inflation from the central banks.

https://wtfhappenedin1971.com/

now that central banks are out of tools they are lost at the fact that people are trying to escape inflationary assets.
They are the only generation in history that lived something so extreme like this with the only exception than the post flavian dynasty romans who lived something similar.

>>23997672
This. Dalio has probably been in Bitcoin for a while now.

>>23997466
It's a bit frightening how someone who advocates for an open mind and an idea meritocracy is slow to understand a paradigm shift.
He is half a decade late.
Is this the fate awaiting us when we are older?

>>23997466
>FOMO.jpg

>>23997756
Sounds like we should probably beat them up and take all their stuff.

>>23997466
is it possible for a boomer to know he’s stupid? this proves it might be

>>23997508
Roubini surprises me the most, since he was so vicious in his criticism before.

>>23997618
Bitcoin will be the new gold. It's a better store of value in every conceivable ways and ways unimagined. As for currency, the entire world is rolling out CBDC's - these will be the new stablecoins. If CBDC's don't put the spotlight on Bitcoin, well, they will. Retail, for once, is getting to frontrun something ahead of institutions which are rolling in now. This is completely unprecedented and we will see supernormal returns. Based on supply demand economics alone it's going to 100k, that's a given, what people don't realize is that it's not going to surpass golds market cap, it's going to tear it up.

>>23998061
No we should fix the system that is causing this , confiscatory policies end badly and revolutions tend to eat their creators.

>media attention
this is your sell signal, /biz/

>>23997981
not if you microdose psychedelics to keep your brain plasticity high

>>23997981
Ray Dalio is already in. This article is FUD.

>>23997466
Literally whomst is this dude

>>23997557
Clearly the local top. When idiots and normies start capitulating they get dumped on and sell like the weak-handed faggots they are.

Then they miss the real moon, months later.

>>23998130
ray Dalio is one of the smartest boomers and it took him this long. the others have little hope.

>>23998158
He is a keynsians , keynsians lie to support their policies , he knows that after the velocity of money returns the next two years bitcoin will go above 300k.
He is smart enough to know that keep fuding will destroy his reputation but make no mistake as a keynsian they want total control so he probably hates it with all his life energy but as a smart bastard knows when to fight and went to to fighta battle.

>>23998176
You are correct at gold marketcap minus 4m inactive coins you get a price of around 490k per bitcoin.
But gold has not been "gold" since even before 1971 , in bretton woods it acted as gold for the usa which indirectly it acted as gold for the world due to the usd being the defacto reserve currency.
But gold has been shorted constanlty and inflated with paper gold reserves so the gold price is actually insanely supressed.

I would not be suprised if gold real price is above 500k but what goldtards don't get is that since gold can't be moved internationally the market price is irrelevant since the price is put by the markets in which they can inflate it with paper gold.
They can inflate bitcoin too but the market price wins a week or two later and is back again since people want to have it in their wallets thanks to mtgox.

>>23998403
>and went to to fighta battle.

* and went not fight a battle

>>23997466
FINALLY holy shit about time. This is his chance to actually have a relevant hedge fund again and preserve his legacy

>>23998330
Nope there is enough short term fomo here to propel us higher. I don't think we'll see any major corrections for awhile and then they'll be bought up very quickly

>>23997981
No they aren’t dense just lying through their teeth

>>23998403
Golds market cap isn't anywhere close to where it actually should be in this world of unquantifiable derivatives

>>23998130
He isn't stupid, he just didn't grow with the internet so it's not easy for him to understand the fact that internet will absorb our entire human reality.

>>23997466
He is a /biz/ poster. He was fudding and now fomoing for all the normie retards.

>>23997466
BTC sama, I kneel!

>>23997756
The boomers are the most irresponsible, lead brained, spoiled humans. Imagine going through the great depression and ww2 only to have your kids ruin the earth with pollution and live off a pyramid scheme and then vote fascists into the government all the while denying reality itself.

>>23998730
Agree

>>24000781
Yes they had it so easy that they bribed with brrrrrrrr out from every problem they had.

>Missing the obvious internet version of gold

>>24000781
this man is not asian

I will believe it when the FedCoin is announced. This is just ETH all over again.

>>23997634
his problem is: he can't find the spigot to bitcoin like he did with fed

>>23997466
He already bent the knee. He’s saying this to get normies in.

>MFW only 1 BTC
FUCKING HELL I WILL ALWAYS BE POOR FUCK ME FUCK ME FUCK ME

FINANCIALLY CAPITULATED

>>24001046
this

billionaires aren't dumb, by the time they come out and publicly endorse BTC it means they're already done accumulating

>>24000781
the true horror is they are going to escape scott-free for the most part. the funniest part is genX are going to suffer the most....
and I say that as a genxer

>people unironically thinking they are smarter than Dallio because they think they got into crypto before him
The undeserved smugness and zealotry of crypto faggots makes me embarrassed to be associated with crypto at all. The vast majority interpret their luck as skill because they happened to make a few million at most.

>>24001295
you prolly need to go back

>>24001341
Indeed

>>24001341
>>24001703
Sorry, it seems I have upset you guys in some way?

>>23997466
honestly admirable when people are willing to recant a dumb public stance and be open-minded

>>24001851
Not upset. you treat dallios smugness as wisdom. someone who made money by being close to the money printer as if that takes "skill"
Meanwhile you treat people who bet on something at $0 because they saw the dallios of the world as "LUCK" - as if holding from $0 is luck.

>>24001295
You think Dallio would ever lower himself to shake your hand? Take his nuts out of your mouth

>>23997618
>1_Bitcoin has lower inflation than fiat

Everything has lower inflation than fiat now. Even dog poo has a more limited supply, but that doesn't make it valuable.

>>23997756
Anyone seen that "Schiff will win" tripfag recently?

>>24002367
poo poo has infinite supply
Real estate & gold & bitcoin don't

Only one of those 3 can be shorted by creating fake versions of it.
The other two are ruled by market place

>>24002428
Most of those tripfags around mid to late 2019 were paid to short bitcoin and shill for fiat , they used multiple tripfags and other shit memes to spam the board they were unironic fiat shills.

>>24001909
>>24002085

Where is this smugness from him you are talking about? All he has said about Bitcoin is that it was a bubble in 17, which it was, that he was skeptical it would be adopted by nation states, and that he might not understand it. From what I have read from him he does not come across as smug at all. Maybe you could point me to instances of this? Though the way you characterize his success leads me to believe you think he simply lucked himself into being the largest hedge fund manager for vague reasons. Meanwhile, yes most people did just gamble on crypto when it was worth nothing, it is easy to make a couple good trades and hold in a gold rush, clearly if you were capable of that long term in the crypto space you must be worth hundreds of millions of dollars by now with how volatile the market is right? That should be easy for you experts since even the major coins are capable of massive price fluctuations so you don't even need to bet on shitcoins. You guys are acting like you're hot shots because you hit a couple home runs in little league.

>>23997466
WWWWWWWWHHHHHHHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>bullish as fuck

>>23997508
It's not too late.

>>23997466
>>23997508
WHAT ABOUT PETER SCHIFF THAT ABSOLUTE FAGGOT

>>24000781
>vote fascists into the government all the while denying reality itself
What? What do you mean they voted fascists into office? Trump?

The same Trump that just appointed a person with pro-gold views to the Federal Reserve?

Damn were the fascists the good guys?

>>23997466
>>23997508

I thought I was gonna be a lot cooler this time around. A lot less nervous. A lot more emotionally detached. I was wrong.

LOOK LIKE HYPE IS BACK ON THE MENU BOYS

>>24000781
>There are really kids here that are going to tell their grand-kids they survived 4 years under a 2nd holocaust because they saw some scary Vice videos

Will XMR follow BTC to the moon?

>>24002907
lol. how much is Dalia paying you for that damage control?
look at some of his interviews. he's arrogant as fuck.

>>24003143
me too man, me too.

>>24001061
better than 0

>>24002907
>simply lucked himself into being the largest hedge fund manager for vague reasons.
not at all, like Buffet they both followed the same path. Actual real investing skill but as the numbers got bigger they needed "surer and surer" bets, thus turned to just getting in line next to the money printer and becoming official mouth pieces for the gutting of the middle class and offshoring everything to slave states
the smugness is how they claim to speak somehow for common man (we need more taxes on rich) meanwhile the horrible inequalities are the result of their pushing 30m illegals into the country and encouraging one sided trade deals to give the multinational companies they backed preferential treatment.
are they evil? no. have they done anything illegal? no. but certainly sanctimonious and smug. its great to see them miss crypto by such a wide margin.
when the young lions arrive they kill the old lions and thats whats going to happen over next 10 years and they know it.

>>23998403
Can anyone explain in clear terms how do cash-settled and/or fractional gold derivatives suppress the price of actual gold? I've tried to get it many times but I just don't understand how it would work.

>>24002907
nice book

>>24003536
its pretty simple in principle. lets say you have 10 physical ounces of gold, but I print 20 tickets.....what happens to price?

>>24001061
Don't be sad bro, rejoice in the fact you are in the 1% globally

>>23997508
>It may be a partial store of value because, unlike thousands of other what I call shitcoins, it cannot be so easily debased because there is at least an algorithm that decides how much the supply of bitcoin raises over time.

what an idiot
he still doesn't understand it
there is no algo deciding the halving, it's just set by number of blocks; the timing isn't even based on years, it's just every set number of blocks (targeting 4 years since blocks are targeting 10minutes)
the difference bitcoin has is it's byzantine fault tolerance, but he has NO IDEA how any of it works, he has not seen the code

>>24004006
Does 1 ticket give me the right to exchange it for 1 ounce? If so, then you'll go bankrupt sooner or later, no?

>>24003059
schiff still says bitcoin needs to prove itself over the years, his argument is much more grounded even if sometimes he talks nonsense (when he mentions greater fool theory)
greater fool theory doesn't fit the bill since bitcoin is achieving byzantine fault tolerance NOW, what you're paying is for the censorship resistance of not having a TX orphaned or funds forked

>>24004193
Can’t wait for him to get rugged on gold

>>24004131
He understands he is just a keynsian and hates anything they can't control.

>>24004151
>f so, then you'll go bankrupt sooner or later, no?
i settle you in dollars not ounces.
now do you get it?

>>23997466
Ray Dalia is a fucking faggot who loves to choke on gallowns of Chinese semen

>>24004269
no
in that case it's just two parties betting on the price of gold, which implies actual physical gold trading somewhere else and these parties using that price
In that case you (the mm) don't need to actually hold a single physical oz, it's just a bet, and I don't see how it can influence the actual gold price

>>23997466
This is scary shit, thank god for all these new investment opportunities, Ramp, ALBT, BTC . The amount of millionaires gonna be formed in the next decade is huge

>>24004351
>it's just a bet, and I don't see how it can influence the actual gold price
the price of physical gold is set by the paper market - asking "how can it influence the price" is a tautology.

>>23997634
The same way u didn’t

>>24003088
Look into all the other zogbots since Nixon, don't think like reddit when you see fascist

>>24004407
>the price of physical gold is set by the paper market
That's what I don't get, how does this happen?
If it's really the case that people trade physical gold based on some paper fairyland price then I can't help but conclude that that's the market price for physical gold. After all, people are free to determine the price at which they will trade and that is what they've decided to do without being forced to.

>>24001851
Wow, probably the first time someone apologized on this website

>>24004506
well this decoupling is why (like 2nd week of march) there is no physical available yet "price" has hardly moved.

further, if you want to get big-brained the reason this situation exist is because gold is a pain in the ass....holding 10 ounces is fine, now try holding 100k. pretty soon moving it and storing it is too much hassle so people just move the paper. THIS is why they can get away with this game indefinitely.

compare this to BTC. its as easy to hold .001 btc as to hold 10000000 btc. this is what it fixes, there is little pressure to develop decoupled paper markets.

>>23997672
I took some profit today. Did I fuck up?

>>24003310
I think you are overestimating what hedge funds do, for the vast majority they simply are used to allocate capital where it is most effective. They are neither the regulators (politicians) or the corporations that lobby them since the vast majority of their investing is about reading the climate and understanding how to act accordingly. Lobbying isn't as effective for them because their entire model is having an edge over others, which is usually opaque and therefore not possible through just regulation. All actors in the equation are acting in their best interest as designed, except politicians who are supposed to be acting in the interest of their constituents.

And if everyone is expecting btc to go 100k+, for the most part they haven't missed crypto at all, everyone here just happened to be extremely early in comparison. When you manage over 100b of other peoples money, they aren't going to put it into something as unproven as crypto.

>>23998403
>>24004637
I sure hope you are wrong
If btc becomes the world reserve currency there would be no more privacy and no more private property
Every transaction and life decision ever made would be recorded by the blockchain and public for everyone to see forever
Without privacy there is no private property and without private property there is no freedom
I suspect this is why they created bitcoin

>>23997466
did he finally find BadgerDAO?

>>23997466
Tbh not get 5 bitcoin when I had the chance is my only financial regret.

>>23997466
HAHAHAHA GET FUCKED BOOMERS

>>24005126
dont worry too much about that, numerous sidechains will exist.
i think btc is going to exist in 2 parallel universes something like a kyc-approved liquid and a wild-west lightning .... on chain will probably inch forever towards totally regulated.

>>23997466
>>23997508
All will one day bend the knee to King Corn!

>>24000781
>and then vote fascists into the government
I wish

>>23997618
Can someone repill me on stablecoins? What's the advantage of cashing out into a stablecoin rather than fiat (other than inflationary reasons)?

>>24003088
>>24006555
People in neoliberal democracies today associate fascism with the differences it has with our current system, which are mostly aesthetic and cultural.
In terms of policy, the level of integration between the government, central banks, and major corporation in the US since WW2 is distinct from earlier eras, and quite similar to the fascist mode of organization. The US became just fascist enough to win the war, and then kept most of those structures in place because they created powerful constituencies that needed to be satisfied.

>>24006666
>The US became just fascist enough to win the war
Absolute brainlet take.Why don't you tell me what you think "fascism" constitutes?

>>24006625
Stablecoins existed as a loophole to regulatory restrictions because back then only a few exchanges had done the necessary work to handle actual money (coinbase, kraken and a few others). Now they are shifting towards being used as wrapped assets to be used in defi. The advantage is you are holding actual fiat in an institution that is regulated as such, whereas stablecoins carry the risk of opaque monetary policy (tether) or coins that hold ecosystem risk like decentralized stablecoins.

Also if you plan on cashing out stablecoins you basically are then doubling your fees from crypto > stablecoin > fiat as opposed to simply going straight to fiat.

>>23998403
This is some powerful hopium.

>>24006908
neoliberal social democracy is pretty much akin to the anti-social version of nazi germany. idealistically at least there really isn't much of a difference. you could also call it "anti-fascist", which is very interesting when looking at antifa and its namesake, and makes it pretty clear that antifa today isn't leftist.

an actually leftist organization would call itself afa = afascist.

>>24007285
>americans actually believe this

>>24007285

>>23997466

he was just FUDing it at the beginning because he was panicking about not having any and was still in the accumulation phase.

I hold 3000 LINK and zero bitcoin. What do? Scared to fomo in from my link stack like a normie.

>>24007285
>neoliberal social democracy

>>24007285
Look at this shit. This is why I asked the other anon to define fascism. You guys have no clue. Just like many other words lefties like to use to label opposition, the meaning has been totally eroded.

>>24000781
Kekd and saved, spot on anon

>>23997618
>The top is a retarded concept now
Yup this is the top

>>24007864
Anon I'm too tired and busy to define it right now, which is why I didn't, but I'm not a lefty using it as a boo-word. Quite the opposite, I'm saying that fascism is defined in part by coordination between the state and its largest corporations for the mutual benefit of both, with corporations encouraged to centralize and consolidate for greater legibility.
The rest of fascism, where the ideology concerns the nation as a people, is conveniently discarded.

Yes this is half-assed and incomplete. Others have said it better than I have here, but it's just a /biz/ thread and I'm shitposting between peaks in wagecuck workload.

>>23998130
Was Dalio ever against Bitcoin?

>>24008171
pretty sure he was in the "rat poison" opinion camp until recently

>>24000781
All the boomers should be rounded up and sent to gitmo desu

>>23997756
And now its us with Bitcoin. I wonder will our grandkids generation curse ours like we do the boomers.

>>24001167
Not if you have been buying bitcoin. We are catching up and getting ahead of the game. Actually 2 years dca into btc/link and Im well ahead of catching up lol.

>>24008315
He never went as far as Buffett or Munger calling it rat poison but he did say
>There’s two purposes of money, a medium of exchange and a store hold of wealth and bitcoin is not effective in either of those cases now.
which wasn't wrong desu

>>24008141
First of all, Mussolini didn't actually say that.

Second of all, corporatism refers to a different system than state capitalism, a corporatocracy, or whatever you want to call it. Corporatism is a blend of guild socialism and national syndicalism (worker's movement). The "corporation" in "corporatism" refers to that essentially of a union, also sometimes called a trust, syndicate, and yes, a guild, to whatever particular industry you belonged to. For example all the farmers would be part of the agricultural corporation, all the laborers the labor corporation. These corporations were unions of both public and private interests where they could negotiate on their economic future with government oversight. Italian Fascism had more government oversight of private companies, National Socialism had freer markets but were more likely to nationalize industries or companies if they weren't delivering good results for them.

>>24007796
Hold the line marine. Seriously though now is not the time to be thinking that way. You missed links sat run and now you gotta wait it out. Link will rise dont you worry. Stop chasing you made your decision to stay in link 3 months ago when it topped out.

>>23997466
He actually was always Pro Bitcoin. Look him up on youtube. Pretty based.

>>23998176
Hedge yourself with gold or silver, Bitcoin is still an experiment compared to golds 1000s of years history. We could have some kind of black swan event in Bitcoin for sure.

>>24008710
You're right, anon, and I was going to use the one about Keynes originally. This one just came up in the image search and looked more applicable. I'm not going to engage further; it's really not germane to a discussion about Bitcoin and you've got a better mental grasp of the history involved.

>>24008023
it's a retarded concept on qe infinity , velocity.

>>24008141
HOLY FUCKING WOKE

>>24007285
it's not the antisocial version , it's the ULTIMATE VERSION ,instead of using armies to conquer and occupy your enemy you use part of the prined money to do social engineering like spreading chaos , antifa , trannies , globohomo , feminism , destroying the family.
At the end of the day no group is united to resist your inflationary occupation.

KEYNES DELENDA EST

>>24008423
I been thinking about that yes i think they will blame us but it was the best option we had.
Also bitcoin will enforce a new standard that will be pretty good we will return to the days were a house will cost 2 years of wages but from their point of view we making it on crypto will seem insanely greedy and evil.
Even if it was to restore a good standard for them.

>>23997466
A cult leader with an assortment of ass-kissing yes-men realizes he doesn't know everything. Wow...damn...profound.

>>24009001
Your lolbert description of fascist economics is unscientific and what you are actually referring to is crony capitalism. It isn't the same thing.

>>24004407
>the price of physical gold is set by the paper market - asking "how can it influence the price" is a tautology.
How? If there is demand for physical gold that cannot be satisfied the premium for physical will go up, until the prices no longer has anything to do with eachother.

Your post is 100% handwaving. ”It just does”

>keep buying my altcoin
>never goes up
>bitcoin keeps going up
i never learn. but buying in now just seems stupid

>>24009767
You Are Here

>>24009918
wtf why didn't the 2018 spike result in a new paradigm
But for real this is a bull run with a sell-off coming soon
Definitely buying the dip

>>24009918
I see a sell off in your circle

>>24009995
>wtf why didn't the 2018 spike result in a new paradigm

>>24010023
Yes.

Everybody knows a massive dump is coming. But nobody knows if it's gonna dump from 18k down to 10k, or whether it'll keep on blasting to 25k and then dump to 14k before continuing upwards

>>24009918
bitcoin won't go another 100x. there's simply not enough money in the world. world market cap is $67 trillion
bitcoin is 0.3 Trillion, so it'd really be lucky to see anything more than 10x at this point.
>inb4 herp derp derivatives trades count as money supply

>>24010061
wtf why did none of these peaks set a new bottom
yet again I say that what goes up comes down

>>24010133
in both of those scenarios buying now is stupid
so we /comfy/ in the patience waiting room

>>23997618
Bitcoin already has lower inflation then gold also, 1.79% vs 2.5%

>>23997756
Yikes the face of a Rekt man, lucky for him he’s still made good money selling gold at a premium to doomers who buy his rhetoric

>>24010142
>world market cap is $67 trillion
lol no

>>24010313
you're right, its better to use base money of $28 Trillion as its impossible for any of the other rows in that pyramid to be invested into bitcoin. Thanks for strengthening my point.

>>24010142
lol the s&p 500 collective market cap alone is 23 tril

>>24010205
Yes but i suspect gold real inflation is lower than bitcoin tough it's supressed with paper gold anyway.

>>24010240
Yes and he also accepts bitcoin when he sells gold lmao.

>>24004913
Depends. A couple thousand? Sure I suppose. A couple hundred? You're a retard.

>>23997672
here’s the problem with that thesis, once boomers are in they will never allow it to collapse. Just take real estate as the prime example of being eternally “priced out”

>>24010639
>once boomers are in they will never allow it to collapse
At their youngest, they're 56. They'll all go senile and get retarded within the next 15 years.

>>24001061
If only you knew how early you were, don’t be sad just hold no matter what happens. They can never brrrrrr Bitcoin

>>24005126
bitcoin -> monero -> monero -> bitcoin, there problem fixed

>>24004637
Well what you described is just a small reason the paper gold market is much bigger than the physical gold market, but the reason doesnt matter that much.
The fact that the paper market dwarfs the physical market is enough to affect the make the physical market the paper markets bitch. This is what we see with btc derivatives currently.
Remember cme btc derivatives started trading at the last ath 3 years ago