/biz/ - Business & Finance

>I'm a badass ninja marine seal sniper, come at me SWAT teams!!1
If G7 governments banned Bitcoin the price will probably collapse for 10-50 years anyway. Few would dare buy it, making it pointless to even try to get rich as a fugitive. Then again, banning it might legitimize it as a threat such that people in other countries would flock to it. But see the earlier point about other countries going against the US military and potentially facing sanctions etc.
>This post is true, which is why Bitcoin sucks and gold/silver are better
Gold has already been confiscated once before in the land of the free
>This post is just FUD
Oh this post is definitely FUD. But it's the good kind, the kind that should be carefully considered. What if Western governments banned Bitcoin, how would it play out? Do you really believe they will do nothing about a rival, free monetary system as they brrrr their own currencies into nothingness and BTC becomes the new global standard? How much longer do we have before they take action? Why wouldn't they?
2/2

>>23948926
If BTC is illegal it won’t matter because I already sold off my stack for more eRSDL

>>23949070
Obvious shitcoin spam but you bring up a good point.
>I'll just hold shitcoin #4329
Elites are not retarded, all alts would suffer the same legal fate, even including ETH.

>>23948926
>What happens if owning BTC is made illegal, possibly as far as death penalty as punishment? I'm a BTC hodler but never had a good answer to this.

Bullish less supply for every holder executed.

How can i long this?

>>23949238
>How can i long this?
You couldn't because it would be illegal. Even decentralized exchanges would lack liquidity. Also:
>If G7 governments banned Bitcoin the price will probably collapse for 10-50 years anyway. Few would dare buy it, making it pointless to even try to get rich as a fugitive.

>>23948926
>>23948929
Bitcoin owners would be completely fucked since the price would drop so low that most miners would be forced to shut down and the government would be able to seize the blockchain and destroy your hodls
remember, you NEVER own your bitcoins, your bitcoins are owned by the blockchain
if one person manages to seize the blockchain you are fucked

gold is safer even though it already has been banned once
all you have to do is hide your gold until the ban is over

I would cash out and still be in a better position than the average wagecuck living paycheck to paycheck

Gold market cap asset: about $9 trillion
Bitcoin Market cap: about 199.62 billion
Why would they bother?

>>23949352
>miners would be forced to shut down
Good point, hadn't even considered it. Yes, that makes it even worse, globally, even outside specific countries. Hash rate would plummet and it's basically over.

>>23949374
>I would cash out and still be in a better position
If crypto was banned it would immediately dump so hard you would lose everything instantly. Only the insiders would profit from leveraged shorts.

>>23949424
Come back in 1-5 years. Which is not a long time on the scale of "humanity's new standard of money."

>>23948926
The real question is is owning bitcoin better than owning fiat despite everything you speak of?
The answer is an obvious yes since fiats are going to zero with 100% certainty. Worst case scenario is bitcoin does the same so why hold fiat?

>>23949505
Because there are other things to have besides fiat or Bitcoin. If they will both fail then the answer would be to invest in real estate, commodities, and part-ownership of businesses (stocks or private).

>>23949505
>>23949615
If only there was a tried and true alternative

>>23949505
>>23949615
Something with value that lasts for thousands of years
Hmm..

>>23948926
>What happens if owning BTC is made illegal, possibly as far as death penalty as punishment?
Change the word BTC to ‘assets’. The answer stays the same and is obvious. Revolt.

>>23949634
>>23949691
Already been confiscated once before. Why would they ban Bitcoin and not touch gold?

>>23949735
You and what army? The average normie sees Bitcoin as something used by hackers and criminals anyway. They are just a few fake news segments away from actively *demanding* it be banned.

>>23949757
Like I said
All you have to do is hide your gold
You can’t hide your bitcoins, because they aren’t yours - they belong to the blockchain, which will be seized by the government after miners within G7 shut down and miners outside G7 go bankrupt due to price drop

>>23948926
The government won't because they can't.
People are extremely deluded into believing that law effects what does and doesn't happen. Black markets have always existed. As soon as someone says "you can't do that" a massive group of people say "fuck you" and do it anyways.

Abortion, Drugs, Guns, Alcohol, Foreign made products, Books, and much much more. You can find a black market for damn near anything on any continent. In the governments eyes any transfer of money that isn't taxed is a black market transaction. You think crypto will be any different?

>>23949836
But you lose all institutional investment

>>23949792
>hide your gold
How much of your wealth would you lock into hiding, and for how many decades? Are you willing to risk extreme penalties like federal prison?

>miners outside G7 go bankrupt due to price drop
Difficulty would adjust down. Then it depends on how much military and bureaucratic pressure would be applied. Bitcoin could survive in certain "rogue" countries like Iran or NK but that wouldn't help the average biz investor.

>>23949789
It’s not about having an army, it’s about not sitting back like a bitch while the government threatens to kill me for my wealth. You’re the type to stand up for yourself only if it meant you won in the end. Deep down you’re a coward and you know it.

>>23949836
>You think crypto will be any different?
Yes because it's digital. Also KYC guards most fiat gateways. Also this:
>I'm a badass ninja marine seal sniper, come at me SWAT teams!!1
If G7 governments banned Bitcoin the price will probably collapse for 10-50 years anyway. Few would dare buy it, making it pointless to even try to get rich as a fugitive.

>>23948926
>What happens if owning BTC is made illegal, possibly as far as death penalty as punishment? I'm a BTC hodler but never had a good answer to this.
How do people come up with such stupid scenarios to consider and worry about?

-what if owning bitcoin becomes illegal?
-what if owning gold becomes illegal?
-what if owning land becomes illegal?
-what if owning dollars becomes illegal?
or
-what if the tax rate is doubled or tripled?

Christ, who cares? If that happens, then I guess I'm not as wealthy as I thought I was. Does it change my life? Yes, probably. But it's a ridiculous scenario. Why try to come up with a "plan" for something like this?

>>23949935
Your death in the name of my right to own Bitcoin is much appreciated, despite you calling me a coward. Also this:
>I'm a badass ninja marine seal sniper, come at me SWAT teams!!1
If G7 governments banned Bitcoin the price will probably collapse for 10-50 years anyway. Few would dare buy it, making it pointless to even try to get rich as a fugitive.

>>23949836
Problem is Bitcoin needs independent miners with enough hash rate to defend the blockchain from government seizure
How do you expect the miners to out fund the government when government seizes most large farms and the remaining farms are operating with very low or no profits at all due to drop in price
>>23949923
I have 40% of my net worth in gold and I’d be willing to hide it forever, for my children, grandchildren and great grandchildren
last time they banned gold it was 10 years prison, would definitely risk it

>>23950028
>How do people come up with such stupid scenarios to consider and worry about?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SWOT_analysis

>what if owning land becomes illegal?
This does not compete against US dollar hegemony (or Euro). Only Bitcoin and gold are direct threats to them.

>>23948926
>let's ban bitcoins
>let's ban shitcoins
>let's ban even RS gold and tf2 keys
Yes, let's ban every asset on earth valued by people, let's ban even rocks and children's drawings if people value them.

>>23948926
>>23949115
He is right. Crypto, and especially BTC, will never be accepted into mainstream society ever, or at least for the remainder of our lives. Maybe in 100 years yes, but right now centralized traditional banks retain a lot of power and will not give it up without a fight. If they do, they will create another coin that countries will accept and BTC will fall to the wayside. BTC is going to be worthless as it will have no store of value. You can't buy anything with BTC.

>>23950201

if btc survives the next few years, there will be enough jews holding BTC that the government wouldn't dare fucking around with it. if they do they will destroy a bunch of rich people's portfolios and crash the economy

>>23949502
Exactly the point. If this is away another 1-5 years and only comes true if btc has risen significantly, I wnat to profit from this upmove, so I hold Bitcoin now.

>>23948926
Some countries start becoming friendlier towards crypto. Taken to the extreme, if crypto were illegal everywhere, only one nation needs to flip to gain a massive uptick in economic power in a very short span of time.
If multiple powers were to continually escalate efforts to outlaw or incentivise crypto, you end up with a cold war situation.
On a personal level, I'd secure some exits from the country so I can reposition to a pro-crypto country, and probably stock up on iron and aluminium oxides if the situation looks unsafe.
Additionally, I want you to note that banning crypto during hyperinflation in a democratic and technologically advanced country would lead to disaster, as the government would be essentially be forcing citizens to deal with the mistakes of the government. The range of consequences vary from impeachment to revolution and/or invasion by another state depending upon the severity of the crisis.
Black market crypto would also cause the price to increase to scarcity long term, demand typically increases relative to supply.
I also think you vastly overestimate how difficult it is to break the law.

>>23950337
this. if the government tries this it means the economy is fucked and there will be massive unemployment and riots.

>>23948926
Awful lot of fud today

Yeah I think we're back

>>23948926
Badger.Finance is like a backup for btc if that happens, so im not worried

>>23950262
>the year is 2030
>owning digital hats is illegal
>you are happy

>>23950272
>there will be enough jews holding BTC that the government wouldn't dare
See my OP:
>The insiders would dump on us and make profits first before it got banned.

>>23950324
>If this is away another 1-5 years and only comes true if btc has risen significantly, I wnat to profit from this upmove, so I hold Bitcoin now.
This makes BTC a pump and dump onto greater fools and not a legitimate long term investment. Which means anyone who thinks far enough ahead should either PnD it or just avoid it altogether.

>>23950337
>if crypto were illegal everywhere, only one nation needs to flip to gain a massive uptick in economic power in a very short span of time
If the biggest GDP countries came together and banned it the price would take an historical dump. As to remaining countries, see OP:
>Are you sure your new country wouldn't ban it next? What if they were pressured with threats of sanctions etc?

>stock up on iron and aluminium oxides
See OP 2/2:
>I'm a badass ninja marine seal sniper, come at me SWAT teams!!1
If G7 governments banned Bitcoin the price will probably collapse for 10-50 years anyway. Few would dare buy it, making it pointless to even try to get rich as a fugitive. Then again, banning it might legitimize it as a threat such that people in other countries would flock to it. But see the earlier point about other countries going against the US military and potentially facing sanctions etc.
>banning crypto during hyperinflation in a democratic and technologically advanced country would lead to disaster
For average people: yes. For elites: no, Bitcoin is the disaster.
>range of consequences vary from impeachment to revolution
Didn't happen when gold was confiscated. Nor in the countries where Bitcoin is already banned.
>you vastly overestimate how difficult it is to break the law
It's digital. I bought it off Coinbase and declare taxes to IRS every year. But ok badass tactical sniper.... the price will collapse anyway.

>>23950382
Yes Bobos are sweating

>>23950382
>fud
>This post is just FUD
Oh this post is definitely FUD. But it's the good kind, the kind that should be carefully considered. What if Western governments banned Bitcoin, how would it play out? Do you really believe they will do nothing about a rival, free monetary system as they brrrr their own currencies into nothingness and BTC becomes the new global standard? How much longer do we have before they take action? Why wouldn't they?

>>23950406
Certainly shitcoin #4329 is safe! Kek

>>23950455
I would never ban Bitcoin. But I don't make the rules.

>>23950734
>Bobos are sweating
I'm bullish short term and bobos can get fucked. This post is about selling at the top of the market cycle (100k-500k) vs hodling for the long haul (think decades). Whatever happens is likely years away. So far zero good arguments on keeping BTC longer than a few years then dumping when it becomes too much of a threat. I wish we could all meet at the Citadel some day but I don't see how it could exist when governments have tanks and drones.

Can anyone advise a comfortable staking system?

Looked trough DMX token pn Probit, testcheck this platform: dymmax.com
What is your opinion/point of view about it? There is a staking model and additional liquidity for tokens with the new smart-contract model.

>>23950719
>This makes BTC a pump and dump onto greater fools
It‘s not a pnd if your scenario rests on the assumption of hyperinflation and total economic collapse, because if so, any other asset, society itself, is a giant pnd.

>>23949374
>cash out
>assuming the government wouldn't take it all around tax season or, at the very least, tax the fuck out of you

>>23950883
They won't be able to finance tank & drones , hell they won't be able to pay pensions soon anyway lmao.
We will unironically go to citadels.

>>23950719
>But ok badass tactical sniper
Thermite is intended for sabotage, not combat, and if you have strong reason to believe the government is going to come to your house, take you prisoner and then kill you for owning a bitcoin wallet (something which they could plant on your own computer or just outright lie about by the way), you should absolutely take steps to secure your safe escape.
>If the biggest GDP countries came together and banned it the price would take an historical dump. As to remaining countries, see OP:
The day after this, black market salesmen begin buying, selling and facilitating sales of crypto. They take their own fee, which is now entirely determined by the black market (and hence the level of risk the black market is willing to take). The price doesn't even get a chance to drop, as law abiding crypto holders have to either turn over their addresses or send their crypto to the null address. None of these people get to sell, as the avenues for selling are outlawed.
>other countries going against the US military and potentially facing sanctions etc
The US military is famously poor as asymmetric warfare in the event of a poor country taking the flak. In the alternative scenario of two world powers arising, it's another cold war if they continually escalate, realistically a stalemate is reached whilst the two ideologies play themselves out.
>For elites: no, Bitcoin is the disaster.
If people can't feed themselves, they will revolt. And no, the US military won't shoot the entire US populace to resolve this. Besides, if the US is suffering hyperinflation it quickly loses both the means to produce its own food (from revolution) and the means to buy its own food, as well as pay its soldiers, leading to a swift loss of power for the government. In this event, various other powers invade the US on the grounds of peacekeeping or restoring order and take various lands as their own, or back remaining factions as allies.

>>23948926
my answer to this is always the things you listed guaranteed to happen, hyperinflation and debt default, are issues bitcoin can survive and thrive in. So while we should be concerned about bitcoin in the long term, in the short term (5-10 years at least), bitcoin will continue to grow. This "great reset" isn't going to happen overnight, nor is a federal digital currency.

You can also tell those same people that if bitcoin is banned then fiat is useless and gold is banned. Shit would need to already be fucked.

The only issue I can't seem to get around is the miners being shutdown/out funded by the government. I'm not sure what other methods could exist to validate crypto transactions after it's been banned. I'm pretty sure meshnets or stuff like i2p are uncensorable, but I'm not sure what to think when it comes to crypto.

As for KYC fiat ramps I'm sure a new market space would be created, one where fiat is not dependant on for initial access. I'm not sure what that would look like but it'd be black market and sketchy.

Holding onto your keys and then communicating and trading with others after the ban seems like the way to go, as centralized exchanges would be shut down.

Basically I think crypto will always exist but it might go back to a more archaic form in the event of a ban or seizure

>>23951337
That's where PoS comes in, or other types of validation which are being experimented with. Then you just need people to run nodes which is way more accessible than mining.

>>23951337
>I'm not sure what that would look like but it'd be black market and sketchy.
After a few iterations, it would be heavily decentralised as this is the safest operating model. Deals would be set up by a trusted third party (probably a darknet market), which would take a cut of the fee, with a score and review system (with lack of review probably coming as a negative). Most of the heavy lifting to allow for functioning marketplaces of this description has already been done by existing darknet markets.