/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>23480393
i dont want to, stay poor

>>23480393
The dollar and all other fiat currencies are backed by nothing and people who fall for them are stupid, change my mind.

>>23480393

Currencies don't need to be "backed by" something to have value. All it requires is that people agree to exchange it and they have a shared belief in its value.

>>23480393
What Is Gold backed by OP? Why is Gold valuable?

>>23480409
The dollar is backed by assets and people and the government. The dollar is different from bitcoin because you can sustainably earn interest. The dollar also has the safety of the Federal Reserve and the backing of the government and is the very thing that supports the financial system.

Also transactions can be reversed for fraud and the world can actually run off it. Unlike the bitcoin network.

Bitcoin is internet money bought by people with a low understanding of economics.

>>23480423
This. OP is going to get left behind during this financial revolution. It's currently in the 1st inning so there's still plenty of time but he sounds like a boomer.

>>23480428
The jewelry market mostly. It's shiny and you can wear it.

>>23480393
Fuse will actually be used. Few. Nocoiners always stay poor.

>>23480423
They also need to be stable, regulated and capable of handling high volume instantaneous transactions.

They also need to be something that depreciates in value so people don't just hoard it and destroy the economy.

>>23480489
Do you actually have a background in finance or did you FOMO into this?

>>23480478
I don't think just because it's SHINEY and PURDY is reason enough for Gold to have a current market capitalisation of $11 trillion.

>>23480469
Please, tell me how Bitcoin will revolutionize the financial system.

Don't you need the ability to handle many transactions to do that?

>>23480478

Gold is valuable because it has all of the properties that make it effective as a currency. It doesn't tarnish, is easily divisible, is fungible, scarce, difficult to counterfeit, etc. It's not because it's shiny.

>>23480514
It literally is. There is so much demand from jewlery that it supports the boomers who buy it as an investment.

78% of gold used for jewelry https://goldprice.com/project/facts-about-gold/

>>23480515
It's the best way for global billionaires to sneak their money around the globe. If you want to get millions out of China bux, you have to go on vacation and "play casinos" and take a 50% haircut.

>>23480522
Wrong. Only 19% of gold is held by investors. https://goldprice.com/project/facts-about-gold/

Also once bitcoins cryptographic algorithm get's cracked the system would become unsecured. Currently, this would take ages but need I remind you of Moores law.

>>23480393
I'm hoarding bitcoins, and no, you can't have any. I'm not going to try to change your mind. I'm just going to keep quietly adding to my stack and let you believe whatever you want. Stay poor.

>>23480568
You are forgetting about art and plain old bribery.

>>23480522
this.
Gold has all the properties needed for it to be successful as money. But why did central banks historically use it as the currency backer during the Gold standard? Why didn't they use Platinum or silver? The network effect applies here. Due to the number of users valuing Gold, it no longer became favourable to hold anything other than Gold to store value. The same applies to Bitcoin vs other shitcoins.

>>23480572
Moore's law is coming to an end. And even if computers were 1000 times faster than they are now, it still wouldn't even be anywhere near the speed required to crack bitcoin's ECDSA.

Weak bait.

>>23480467
Everything you said is evidence of BTC being superior to USD for everything except high-volume low-value mass transactions.

>>23480581
Which is a pain in the ass when you are someone who's time is worth 100k a minute. Unless you're Epstein and you like finding a ripe young pussy to fuck along with whatever shitty art she has for you to "sell" for 3 million dollars.

>>23480543
You're asking all the wrong questions. Why are Central Banks holding Gold in their reserves? You think they do it because its SHINEY ? Don't be a fool . They hoard Gold because Gold has all the properties needed mentioned by >>23480522
to be a store of value. That's how they "back" the paper currency that's printed

>>23480582
Wrong. Only 19% of gold is held by investors. https://goldprice.com/project/facts-about-gold/

>>23480614
Try getting Apple or the US Government to transfer 100 billion through bitcoin. It's just not going to happen.

For large transactions stability and asset security matters more. Nobody transfers money in Tesla shares.

>>23480620
Pretty sure BTC is already used to traffic children and whatnot.

>>23480636
They do it because there is massive demand for gold because it is shiny AND the aforementioned reasons.

There are plenty of other things with those properties. Nobody stores Californium or Plutonium for financial reasons because there is such low demand.

>>23480666
>Only 19% of gold is held by investors

Gold has existed well before the internet, when centralised control was abundant in every sector of society, especially finance and banking. The number of users I was referring to that had any impact on Gold's value was the central banks. Why? Because it is physical and cannot be transported as easily to small investors, or saturate the market as deeply as Bitcoin without the infrastructure of the internet, hence the 19%. That's why Bitcoin is effectively a personal bank for every user who holds it.

>>23480467
The dollar is controlled by jews.

I trust uniswap shitcoins more than the U.S. dollar

>>23480703
Wrong, there is a massive demand for Gold because Gold is valued due to the size of the network of people who value it by virtue of its store of value properties. Being shiney is only a bonus. Platinum is SHINEY, why is there a lower demand?

>>23480692
So is regular money. You can download 4Sale on the google play store and buy an African slave in Kuwait right now.

>>23480393
Why would we? You need to convince us if anything in this life has value?

>>23480393 No.
“If you don't believe it or don't get it, I don't have the time to try to convince you, sorry.”

>>23480682
Bitcoin allows anyone to transmit vast fortunes with final settlement within hours to anyone in the world, and nobody can stop it.

>>23480467
Hand $1000 physical dollars to the next negro you see and tell me how reversible that transaction is.

>>23480760
kek I thought you were joking

>>23480393
Bitcoin itself doesn’t have value but it’s an experiment in digits scarcity....it’s also an attempt for a new generation to build a side path into the financial system that has shut them out. An attempt at digitizing assets so people can attempt to custody our own wealth. It’s a lot of things to different people but it’s a complimentary system...you can either play in it or not.

>>23480832
Nope. Slavery is alive and well in the ME and many countries.

>>23480823
kek.

>>23480575
Based.

>>23480839
Bitcoin is at this point like a digital super organism. Crypto in general needs Bitcoin to not fail. Sort of like a cockroach.

>>23480498
>They also need to be stable,
If BTC etc is not stable enough for you then there are Dai and other stablecoins
>regulated
It is regulated by math which is far more reliable than a government
>and capable of handling high volume instantaneous transactions.
Several second-layer platforms, and future first level platforms like ETH2.0, can do this.
>They also need to be something that depreciates in value so people don't just hoard it and destroy the economy.
No, that's subjective. Fiat currencies are inflationary today because that benefits the goals of the elite, which is endless growth and the funneling of capital from consumers to producers. But a deflationary or at least stable currency is in fact better in many ways, such as being more sustainable because it promotes rational, future-oriented financial choices like saving and thinking twice before spending cash on something you don't need. Sure, this might be "bad" for our clown-world economy short term, but it is great long-term, because whatever is left of the economy after stripping away the bullshit will be rock solid and backed in actual productivity.

>>23480863
Give it to him fren

>>23480682
I don't know what to tell you other than that's exactly the kind of thing people said about large companies and governments using the internet/digitized finance when it was in its early stages.

>>23480393
Always a good troll post, 10/10 op
If not a troll, go do some research, 4 cham autists are terrible ambassadors
https://winklevosscapital.com/the-case-for-500k-bitcoin/

No responses by OP . You think he gave up already?

>>23480928
He was the most active person in the thread until 30 minutes ago

>>23480948
I'm willing to bet he is a Gold bug and he just got a redpill shoved down his throat so fast he can hardly talk

>>23480959
I agree, I don't see how anyone can support gold without supporting crypto at this point. It's like he thinks the technology is going to go away at some point when obviously it's here to stay.

>>23480863
Or. Growth is good for the economy which is good for everyone. Politicians need to make things better not worse.

>>23480959
Fuck gold

>>23481021
>Fuck gold
not an argument. Address my points

>>23481003
>Growth is good for the economy which is good for everyone.
Yeah say that in 50 years when climate change is fucking our assholes raw, and all the oil, cheap energy and population growth has run out and society collapses because it's too large to sustain with what we have left, and all the growth counts for nothing for 99% of the people because it all went to the billionaires. Hell, forget 50 years, it's already starting to happen.

>>23480861
Why?

>>23481165
From essay I wrote

The environmental impact of this would be whatever the impact of increased production is. I don’t believe that an increase in production always needs to correlate with an increase in carbon emissions and pollution. There is nothing inherent about production that dictates a negative environmental impact. EV’s can be used for transportation and New Zealand’s clean energy grid can be used to power production.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbR-5mHI6bo

>>23481045
What point is that? I'm not a gold buy I'm an investor who is rational and doesn't get drawn into this tulip back and fourth stuff.

the store of value meme is stupid, you cant store value through time because of advancements in tech and production, only way of really storing value is by producing stuff, ie invest in tools, machinery, raw materials, and or companies that specialize on these. Its like that pmtard saying one ounce of silver bought you this amount of bread during jesus times, and it stills buys you the same today, while ignoring we now produce hundreds of times more bread than then, meaning that silver actually lost purchasing power

>USDand all other currencies are backed by nothing and people who fall for them are stupid, change my mind.

>>23481234
Boom. Thank you, you just dismantled buttcoiners with two sentences.

>>23480582
But then why didn't gold lose its value when it was no longer feasible to use it as a currency?

>>23481207
That's all well and good in theory, but the problem is that in practice we have zero examples of miracles like this happening. Increased production HAS always lead to increased emissions. We could move to a methods of production and transport etc with far less carbon emissions but there are no actual signs of this happening because humans are assholes. And besides, it's already too late. The turning point should have come 20-30 years ago. By now it is impossible to stop climate change no matter what we do. The best we can hope for is to be anally raped by a foul cock instead of a sharp knife.

And climate change is only part of the equation. The net energy cliff that I alluded to is perhaps an even bigger threat.

>>23481174
Btc is going to be the basis on which financial system is build on...the digitized version of “hard money”. It’s starting to be used as a reserve asset for Companies...which will give it an actual floor price instead of allowing the day traders to control daily prices.

>>23481258
Gold didn’t lose its value because the central banks used it to back the dollar bills that were printed . They are still holding gold reserves today in the central banks in a de facto gold standard but with currency that is no longer backed by anything as they debase the currency by successive QE’s. That’s why the dollar is losing value over time called inflation and will one day fail as a currency.

>>23481295
doubtful.
ISO20022
Thats whats going to be valuable in the coming years.
gl

>>23481249
also worth mentioning, while comparing to gold.. gold just sits there, buttcorns requires ever greater amounts of energy to keep running, meaning at some point if energy hasnt become really cheap its gonna have problems sustaining itself unless everyone decides not to sell or spend which never happens, there is a whole range of issues

>>23481234
>>23481223

>the store of value meme is stupid, you cant store value through time because of advancements in tech and production, only way of really storing value is by producing stuff, ie invest in tools, machinery, raw materials, and or companies that specialize on these.

Bitcoin IS the advancement in tech.
blockchain is the tools, machinery, companies that specialise in these.

Third worlder here. Maybe I should tell you that my country's currency is experiencing racing in inflation. The government also cracks down on the purchase of dollars, making it very inaccessible. Buying Bitcoin is literally the only way out. There are millions in my shoes.

>>23481398
no, bitcoin is producing nothing of material value, it is a resource sink actually. Nothing you consume today can be traced to blockchain tech, but advances in modern factory production which allows you to afford your comfy lifestyle. Are we really having this discussion?

>>23481400
maybe try to invest in making our country (yes im from yours too) actually produce value, you know, shit you can touch and use and is useful instead of worthless digits stored in hard disks

>>23481437
But we are producing value. Just not fast enough to reduce biting inflation. What do I do with my currency in the meantime then? Let it reduce 40% in value?

>>23481454
try to save enough to open a business and learn to play the game, you know what game

>>23481426
>Bitcoin is producing nothing of material value
Bitcoin is the first global payment system in the world that solves the digital scarcity problem and allows for instantaneous cross border transactions without the need for a middle man and a centralised authority

>nothing of value

>>23481426
By your metric Gold produces nothing of value, it just sits there but it currently has a market cap of 11 trillion and 2000 dollars per ounce. Why do Central banks store gold in their vaults?

>>23480393
eat shit

>>23481476
no its a scheme, using novelty tech for sure, but the oldest trick in the book which same was used with gold, which also adopted the store of meme value and ended up being a powerful tool for control. Do you realize we got to the modern fiat system, precisely because those who accumulated enough gold had now the power to enforce this 'new system of money' ? same they want to do again with this digital scarcity meme thing, use your damn brain

>>23481516
because jews? it doesnt mean its the best system it just mean we were conned centuries and centuries ago and there's still retards defending and falling for it

>>23481524
So why not ride the wave with them?

Imagine trying to carry $100,000 in gold on an airplane. With crypto you can just carry your hardware wallet in your back pocket with noone the wiser

>>23481535
because things are changing and they wont succeed

>>23481556
Cope

>>23481467
>open a business
>that operates with the same currency that is being hyperinflated
Unless you're transacting in foreign currency I don't see how this is much better

>>23481524
Who is they? If you have a problem with the modern fiat system, you should have a problem with the fact that your dollar is shrinking in value by the day from inflation. A medium of exchange is a necessary thing, but it should not be under an inflationary system which drains the wealth of the citizen. Bitcoin is a deflationary currency.

>>23480393
I'm young and Elon said take risks while you're young, so I put 1k euros in LINK
Not getting to debt into this you know but just in case it moons I don't want to have missed out

>>23481580
my point is a deflationary currency being gold buttcorn of whatever the fuck people can agree on, is not the answer to the scam known as the modern monetary system.. its what allowed this scam to even form in the first place! having a reserve of whatever deflationary currency does not stop you from printing or creating any amount of fiat you wish, also it will inevitably end up in the hands of those who now control the current system, because they already control the worlds infrastructure which is what really matters

>>23480467
Provide proof RIGHT NOW that your dollars are backed by real world assets

>>23480467
>The dollar also has the safety of the Federal Reserve and the backing of the government and is the very thing that supports the financial system.

KEK!!!!!! ^_^

>>23481571
ever thought of the idea of making more money than your losing through inflation? what you mean some people invest in machines instead of memestocks and digital money?

>>23481223
You just argued that Gold has backing because "ITS SHINEY" but Bitcoin has no backing. I just showed you that Gold is not backed by shit because "BEING SHINEY" is not why it has value.

>>23481745
So your entire argument about "it is stupid to buy Bitcoin because it is not backed by anything" has just been thrown out the window, because the same can be said for Gold and any other thing that you invest in, including Companies that produce products. Answer me this, what value would a company have , if their product is not valued by society? Is that company worth investing in?

>>23481437
Completely missing the point. How can you be this dense? Value creation is unrelated to the government inflating away your currency

>>23480428

good question, I have the same concern but then again I don't invest in gold either.

>>23480467
Brainlet

>>23481358

inflation is good, if you don't have inflation (like Japan) your country is in big trouble.

>>23480467
>Bitcoin is internet money bought by people with a low understanding of economics.
>Hurr durr people, deflation is bad because people will not buy chairs
And I’m supposed sit on the floor just because next year a product will be cheaper?
Keep drinking the socialist kook aid and watch your wealth melt away, but I’m not going to follow your kike debt based system
Luckily you can’t stop BTC so nobody cares about muh “economics”

>>23481860
unrelated? money is being created by loans, which go into paying wagies for creating value through their labor. Imagine if the supply of fiat was fixed, while you have an increasing amount of workers, you have to either pay them less for the same job or inflate away your currency. What happens now is they create waaay more money than actual value being created ie services and goods, and instead of focusing on creating real value and improving and making the productions processes more efficient (which would help lower the price of goods in a sane economy), most people are swayed into the world of finance investing, and thats how you view economics which is why u support gold and btc

>>23481985

You are not holding money you are holiding stocks and other assets that beat inflation.
The point of inflation is that government can borrow and invest into shit that benefits me and next generation doesnt have to pay it back because of inflation.
Only ups, no downs.

why are you noobs so fixated on inflation, unless you’re holding fucktons of cash for years you aren’t going to feel the effects of inflation. The bigger problem is that labor is increasingly worthless and the system is designed to compound to infinity the rewards of monopolizing the market. do you really believe that one person should be worth hundreds of billions because they seized control of the market and hedged out all competitors? how do we stop the centralization of wealth when the ultrawealthy hold all the levers of power that could possibly regulate them? We never left feudalism behind, it’s just changed colors

>>23481987
in other words we need more producers and less holders of useless shit, or the problem wont go away it will just get worse

This year food prices and rent is up 1% because of inflaiton. Meanwhile my stocks are up 15% in 6 months.
How am I losing? I don't get it.

>>23482018
this guy understands what im talking about

>>23482007
>only ups no downs
>thinking eternal inflation is sustainable
Tell that to the Weimar Republic when it collapsed

>>23482007
>benefits me and next generation
Look at real estate price vs salary
Next generation will never afford housing and that’s because of massive asset inflation that nothing, no stocks, no gov bonds can beat
Fucking C U C K looking at cpi but not at 1M+ cardboard house prices

>>23481279
We are about to reach price parity with EV's and combustion cars. Fossil fuels are being propped up by the government.

Tesla is currently valued at 400 billion dollars because wall street thinks clean energy is gonna happen.

>>23482043

Stocks beat housing, not by a lot but by some.
All you have to do is work for a few years and buy SPY. It's not impossible.
But if you spend all your money on Apple-products and drugs then you are right, you will never afford housing.

>>23482018
>you aren’t going to feel the effects of inflation.
fuck off kike

>>23481295
Why would that give it a floor price lmao

>>23482069

Ok, now look at Dow.
All you had to do was buy index funds.

>>23480393
Eat shit faggot.

>>23481635
I can walk two blocks and exchange them for condoms

>>23481776
Facebook seems to be doing alright

>>23481985
I don't hold cash lmao I own stocks. But those help buisneses purchase capital goods so it's a moot point. Money never sits around.

>>23482021
Money never sit's idle. If it's saved it goes to buy someone else shit. If it's invested it sustains the cretation of new businesses and the purchase of capital goods

>>23482069
Well yea part of inflation is to force wages down. Even your economics professor will acknowledge this if you get him drunk.

>>23480393
Backed by blockchain, which is something money cannot buy

>>23482153
No it's not. Blockchain is separable from bitcoin. Bitcoin is just a token on the first blockchain.

>>23480918
>divisibility: troy oz
is Winklevoss mentally retarded? I mean, he looks retarded but I didn't know he was actually retarded
also, how the hell is software better than hardware?
I can't wait for some wrinkly old banker to send the national BTC reserve to the wrong address and the entire country goes bankrupt

>>23482124
money doesnt, but gold and btc does, the idea of getting wealthy by simply holding an asset while contributing nothing real to the economy is what fuels all this craze, everyone boasts about it

>>23482104
Why is it better to invest in Facebook rather than MySpace? They are both producing the same product in the same industry. Why is Facebook more valuable?

>>23482210
because of a thing called demand? people use facebook not myspace

>>23482210
>>23482104

I'll answer your question for you. Facebook's product is doing better because it has a larger network of users who value it. When you are investing in Facebook, you are investing in its product, which you think is valuable. The same can be said for Bitcoin.

>>23482240
>>23482233
>because of a thing called demand? people use facebook not myspace

You and OP are making the argument that investing in Bitcoin is not the same as investing in a company that produces a product which people value and demand. I am showing you that you invest in a company because of the product which you think is in high demand, not because the company is "producing something". Your product, i.e. Facebook, is also "sitting there doing nothing" like gold and bitcoin under your metrics. Money is a product.

>>23482240
facebook is an actual product with usefulness so there is demand for it, bitcoin is a stored number, its demand comes from speculation not usefulness, you expect to get wealthier by obtaining it. You dont expect to get wealthier when buying a product you consume it, unless that product is a product or value maker itself

>>23481234
you don't store value, you store labor

the idea of gold/silver is that you can accept it as payment for your labor and when the day comes that you need labor you can trade your gold/silver for others labor

the real question is, will people work for bitcoins?
will soldiers march for bitcoins?
will farmers raise cattle and trade wheat for bitcoins?

of course they won't

but for gold they will march, trade wheat, and shake hands with the devil in the deepest of mines

bitcoin is worthless because when the dollar falls and the BTC-Dollar ramp fades, your bitcoins won't give you the bread that you need to survive tomorrow

>>23482259
every day you need to eat, you need water, you get in your car and drive and use fuel, thats real demand for real things thats the big difference your small brain cant seem to understand, btc disappearing right now would make no difference to your lifestyle, any problem in the chain production of real products would. Money is not a product, nor a merchandise it should be simply a means of exchange

>>23482210

Big Data, that's it.
If you're wondering why Facebook, Alphabet and Amazon is unstopable then the answer is Big Data.

Big Data, Big Dollar, Big Dick.

>>23482266
only because somewhere in history people agreed on it (the gold) it wasnt always like that

>>23482260
>Bitcoin's demand comes from speculation not usefulness
Again.
Bitcoin is the first payment system that solves digital scarcity and the inconvenience of cross border customs and transactions, and middle men commissions. How that is not useful in your mind is beyond me.
If you think stocks and bonds do not involve speculation on any level then you are delusional. There is speculation in every single market.

>>23480515
The blockchain is revolutionizing the financial system, finance 1.0 is reliant on the circular flow of money, some of the larger banks have large leveraged loans in the trillions and are fucked.
(((De-centralised))) finance 2.0 is scalable solution, which basically provides every individual with access to the internet, the ability to interact with the financial system, where they previously would have been excluded due to documentation, location, provisioning etc. This will create huge amout of revenue for the future banks DAO's (De-centralised Automous organisations). Bitcoin is one of a group of crypto's that can be utilised to make very small to very large purchases much like a credit card however with the added incentive of new ways to manage your money, farming, loaning, etc. The traditional banking system is fucked and they know it.

>>23482259
facebook is not sitting there doing nothing like gold and btc lol, they have thousands of employees which they gotta pay, they have to manage insanely big data bases and adress security flaws, its a whole another monster dont be stupid

>>23482276
>Ad hominem attacks when he begins to lose the argument
BTC disappearing right now would affect the lifestyle of the people using the network for convenient transactions and value transfers.
Why would money not be a product? Why did people choose to use Gold as hard money and not Copper? Because Gold has the right characteristics to be money. Gold is a product produced by miners.

>>23480467
This
I don't expect /biz/ to understand the fiscal policy.

>>23482290
yet most people dont buy it for that and you know it, they dont buy it thinking nicee i can now send to my friend in japan without paying those nasty middle men, they buy it and immediately stare at the charts, lmao are u fucking serious man

>>23482290

difference between Facebook and BTC is that you can put an estimate to the degree of speculation.
Facebook price might imply that they will have a certain degree of growth for a few years and maintain their market share for another few years. You can then make a descision if this is reasonable or not.
Bitcoin has absolutely no udnerlying that you can tie the price to. Facebook and BTC is absolutely not comparable in this regard.

>>23482312
You are talking about the company. I am talking about the reason why you invested in Facebook. You invest in Facebook because you think the product, i.e. what the employees are working on, has value. Ultimately it is the value of the product that decides how successful a company is not how hard the employees work.

>>23482317
it would affect gamblers and people wanting to live off others. People didnt choose gold they were persuaded into it by jews, remember it was used mostly as decoration before it became a store of value, there is no need to store value in a piece of metal in an ever expanding, ever flowing economy

>>23482290
>How that is not useful in your mind is beyond me
It's not about usefulness but about politics.
Also, if you think correspondent banks are going away, you're an idiot.
Much like saying we don't need oil if there are alternative sources exist.

>>23481987
As expected brainlet can't understand the difference between hyper inflation and inflation. Remember what post you responded to. If a countries currency is being hyper inflated, btc is a great way to avoid the repercussions of that.
Again, no amount of value creation will save you from your government inflating away the currency.

>>23482347

hyper inflation is a boogie man. It hasn't happened in developed nations in 90 years.
Get real.

If you are basing your entire financial strategy on heding against something that literally never happen then lmao at your life.

>>23482288
> somewhere in history people agreed on it
yes, tens of thousands of years ago every culture and civilization around the world gathered and decided that gold would be money

creatures have valued gold for its sheen and beauty for much longer than mankind has been around
and it will continue to be valued for its sheen and beauty long after mankind is gone

>>23482345
ohh the jews. Ok . You won the argument.

>>23480467
Your post reads like 2011 discussions on the bitcointalk forum and a thread died for this. lurk more because it's [current year] and you're behind the curve.

>>23482342
you invest because you expect the company to increase revenues and expand, bringing in more money and giving you your share for trusting them your money before this happened. With btc its like buying those facebook shares, but knowing reached its usefuleness limitm the company its stuck at that level it doesnt grow more in size only in 'users' which are actually just speculators.
Do you understand the difference? same as investing in whatever company that actually produces stuff, they will grow bigger and produce MORE stuff and increase revenue, same cannot be said of btc only thing it increases are energy costs

>>23482361
The orginal post you responded to is someone who lives in a nation that is experiencing hyperinflation right now. Literally this very second.

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/M1
Hyperinflation is not to far away.

>>23482084
/thread

>>23482369
yes sheen and beauty thats why its was used as jewelry and decoration not locked inside a vault in some basement waiting for the moment to buy armies and land. There were other means of trading

>>23482372
you cant even talk gold without mentioning the jews, are you retarded? read a fucking book

>>23480393
No you're right anon. You're so high IQ! AVOID crypto currency and keep your money in an FDIC approved® bank

>>23482387
you think this is hyperinflation? lmao go have a talk with your parents kid

Xrp is the standard isn’t it.

>>23482420
>not realising jews have been subverting and controlling monetary systems for the last 2000 years

No anon, its YOU who needs to read a book

>>23482431
Completely unrelated comment to this thread.

>>23482449
thats precisely what im saying in this thread brainlet, learn to read

>>23482347
>>23482452
>no amount of value creation will save you from inflation
gee i wonder how all those business are still up and running then

>>23482382
>you invest because you expect the company to increase revenues and expand

Would you invest in MySpace over Facebook if they were both worked on by the same group of employees? Do you expect MySpace to increase revenues and expand the same way Facebook would?

If not, why? Maybe because Facebook's product is more valuable (larger network of users)

You are investing in the product.

>MORE stuff.
BTC is attracting billions of dollars of investments in and around it, new products, new solutions that better the blockchain environment.

Bitcoin is a product.

>>23482466
I'm bored rn so I'll indulge your poor troll attempt. What buisnesses are you referring to?

>>23482420
you cant even talk gold without mentioning the jews, are you retarded? read a fucking book

How about you stop with the ad hominem attacks because clearly you are losing the argument on every single point and is unable to come up with a coherent argument

>>23482493
any business that earns more capital each year, despite any amount of inflation. You do know you can adjust prices right? You know some people arent affected by inflation, because they are always selling shit?

>>23482488
>>23482502
you arguments are completely retarded, comparing facebook to btc and saying both should be regarded the same as a product. Companies produce aggregate value, their output is greater than their input, you consume their products DAILY and the demand only increases. The demand is real, in the case of fuel and food they're essential you cant do without them or society collapses, and you would say a food company is comparable to btc? you are fucking stupid mate

>>23482512
Do remember we're talking about hyperinflation. Buisnesses are actually hit harder than normal people. Prices can be adjusted, but large reserves of currency are required for raw materials, wages, etc. When the value of that currency is rapidly diminishing, that means a real loss, and will eventually cause the company to go under.
Got anything else?

>>23482387

In the third world. Venezuela or India or some shit, who cares.
People use this is an argument against the dollar and this is beyond retarded. I'm not exposed to the rupee so I don't need BTC.

>>23482529
>moving the goal posts
The original comment you responded to since you seem to have forgotten >>23481400

>>23482525
so again, why are business still operating? why havent they all gone under? because some people know how to manage this stuff, you obviously dont

>>23482412
my point here is that gold doesn't represent wealth - Gold is wealth inalterable

gold doesn't need to be tradable for necessities to be valuable, it is valuable by it's very nature, or rather - by OUR very nature
and because it is always valuable it will always be tradable for necessities

bitcoins are only valuable because they can be traded for dollars, dollars who's tradability for wealth (gold) and necessities is backed by the promise of violence unto those who refute it's tradability

once the dollar goes what will bitcoin be? what will uphold bitcoins tradability for wealth and necessities?

>>23482550
but really think about it, it isnt as valuable as you think, it depends on your conditions. If things went to real shit, you would value that cuna can way way more than that ounce of gold, if the tuna can was hardly obtainable, you would trade ounces and ounces of the stuff for it, where as before you'd think you'd get land or a house storing it

>>23482550
the things that hold real value are the things people NEED, you dont need gold at all for holding civilization, except the small industrials amount currently used

>>23482545
Poor brainlet cant keep up. Hyper inflation. Not all currencies are experiencing hyperinflation, in fact most are not.
Your weak attempts to strawman me i to being agaist regular inflation are weak and expose you. I grow bored, come with something interesting or I'll leave you chew your crayons.

>>23482524
Lol stop changing what I am saying.
I am saying buying Facebook stocks is equivalent to investing in Facebook's product . Stop twisting my words. I never said "Facebook is comparible to BTC" Facebook is a company, and BTC is a product. YOU ARE INVESTING IN FB BECAUSE YOU LIKE THE PRODUCT

>>23482550
>bitcoins are only valuable because they can be traded for dollar
and the dollar is only valuable because you buy shit with it, shit you want or need they dont hold value by themselves same with the gold

>>23482361
>hyper inflation is a boogie man. It hasn't happened in developed nations in 90 years.
again, you fucking C U C K S always looking at CPI, but your dad was able to buy multiple properties with his wage cuckin job and you cannot even finish studying without being 300k in debt.
Jesus Christ, people defending inflation have some serious mental issue.
We don’t need inflation to keep the system running, people will still need to eat and buy stuff.
On top of that, now it’s all bad inflation (e.g. quantitative easing) because this money never flow into the real economy but it stays in the banking and financial system that is accumulating hard assets at an increasing pace because of Cantillon effect.
Fucking C U C K S.
You are never getting my BTC, fuck off

>>23480467
Hahahahahahahaha

>>23480522
gold has value, cause people believe it has value. if people believe someday, that lithium is more valuable, than it will be. its all in our heads, believes made up by people from people

>>23482570
if most currencies are not experencing hyperinflation why do you worry so much, why is btc such a saver? just buy foreign currency, oh you cant? buy things then, resell later. Oh you're too lazy? buy the corn then, just dont cry later when china dude dumps on your ass

yeah, because YOU, one lonely shitbag, arrogantly thinks he knows more than actual think tanks.. lmao, stfu and get over yourself you useless tool.

>>23482178
Another reason I listed reversibility as important

>>23482207
And it's why bitcoin will never be a thing

>>23480515
Do you have any knowledge about how banks work? I do, I used to work in a bank. Their systems are outdated af and super simple. Errors occur ALL the time. Too hungover to explain in detail.

>>23482412
Only 19% of gold is stored as an investment and it's stored that way because there is demand for it so it has value

>>23482317
Nobody buys things with bitcoin

>>23482572
you're saying buying fb stocks and buying btc is the same, but fb has a product, btc doesnt and isnt a product in itself. People log onto facebook every day and use their platform as intended, they chat and share pics and post random shit. Btc is like buying the fb stock not because of the company's product but because the amount of shares is scarce or limited and you hope the price will rise. So yes its the same, if fb didnt have a product. You didnt really think this through

>>23482622
>And it's why bitcoin will never be a thing
ngmi lol

>>23482319
Yep it's a shame how many people are getting scammed because they don't understand this.

>>23482603
Not my problem if you have the memory of a goldfish and can't remember what is being discussed

>>23482565
>>23482560
>>23482581
and how many bitcoins would I have to pay for a can of tuna if things really went to shit?

the fact that gold has been valued as highly as it has, allowing men to purchase safety in war, food in famine and comfort in tragedy proves that gold always finds it's value among men, no matter how dire the situation
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sN3iITo7gNA

>>23482543

yes a prime example of third worlder with a shit currency who might have some use of BTC. Please do tell me why people who are getting payed in dollars and have expenses in dollars buy BTC. That's what I want to know.

>>23482639
the demand is not 'real' or 'organic' is my point, it is speculative in nature. There isnt demand for gold for its use as metal in industry or jewelry, most of the demand comes from speculating on the price, this is a different form of value than the value a bulldozer for example holds

>>23482584
You need to take an economics class.

Why do idiots feel qualified to comment on economics with no background. Nobody has ever walked up to a geologist and started unloading how much they hate geodes.

>>23482650
Why is BTC not a product? People log onto their wallets everyday and use their platform as intended, they make transactions securely over the internet to any location they want in the world without centralised control. I did think this through, you're just not reading what I'm saying.

>>23482431
I remember the 70s in New Zealand when we had 10+% a year

>>23482584

If you want to keep p with inflation on properties just buy SPY. There is no hyperinflation of the dollar, maybe by your own schizo definition of inflation but not by real inflation.

>>23482677
That's just false. Go look at the gold consumption figures. It's not investors. It's jewelry

This is smooth brain shit that can be disproven with a google.

https://goldprice.com/project/facts-about-gold/

>>23482658
>muh btc to combat hyperinflation
you are not storing value, you are speculating. You hope you can trade those btc in the future after hyperinflation stops and get the same purchasing power your fiat held when you bought the btc, but this may not happen, you dont know.
Meanwhile non speculators put money in value producing things like equipment, tools, machinery while their shit currency inflates away (they hold none) and they keep selling and their businesses running.
you cant see this because you are a brainlet

>>23482726
SPY has literally twice the fees of VOO

>>23482689
what fucking platform, they log everyday onto their wallet? they make transactions securely over the internet to any location they want in the world without centralised control?
nigger the only use for btc is selling it to another dumbass expecting to gain more dollars than you put in, and everyone knows this

bitcoin is just a greater fools game. bitcoin needs new money to be sustainable, otherwise people would just lose interest and got to the next thing which can give them 100x. blockchain is nothing new and doesnt solve shit. businesses in crypto dont solve anything which cant be done with a simple database.

>>23482746
Yep

>>23482747
No you don't understand we have blockchain in our name

>>23481165
This post, on the heels of a string of coherent economic arguments, gives me hope. Go you fuckin big red fire engine you.

>>23482731
and most jewelry is stored away 'holding value' not being used by women and niggers, in the hopes of one day being sold for something useful, supporting my point

>>23482746
If that's the only use case for Bitcoin , they why did PayPal just adopt it? Bitcoin is a platform. Have you even used BTC before?

>>23482733
I made none of those claims, seethe more goldfish

>>23482681
Are you saying that quantitative easing is a good way to print money?
It’s the worst allocation of resources you could possibly imagine.
Pump the financial system, makes asset inflation skyrocket while your average jon doe ignores what’s happening because muh mcchicken price stays the same. But he cannot afford housing anymore.
Great, thank you economist, you are a hero...fuck off kike

>>23482781

Paypal want you to pay fees, they don't give a shit about crypto. Transactions are of course carried out in Dollars, a real currency.

>>23482781
because we're in a speculation craze and they want their share? ofc ive used btc brainlet everyone here has, and everyone holds and stares at charts they are not using it as satoshi intended 'electronic cash system' ie meant to be spent on goods and services

>>23482347
>If a countries currency is being hyper inflated, btc is a great way to avoid the repercussions of that.
>>23482792

just stfu

>>23482781
no its not. paypal just sees potential in idiots fomoing into things and garner revenue from these idiots. no one is using bitcoin, havent touched them in years. im just going to sell them to some noob at the next top, cause thats all bitcoin is good for.

>>23482822
Correct, that quote is the only claim Ive made, and you admitted it is correct. Everything else you say can be boiled down to austic screetching because you were proven wrong

>>23482823
at least this guy is honest about it unlike all the others like this retard >>23482846

>>23482178
Yes because the rich are stupid enough to send billions of bitcoin in a single transaction and not space it out over several days in multiple transactions.
What kind of fud is that anyway?
>What if you are retarded and lose your bitcoins!

Just don't be retarded lamo

>>23482857
>reeeeeeeeeeeeeeree

>>23482266
Yes but hundreds of years ago it was alot harder to mine gold then it is today.

Today 10 people with mining machines can do the work that 10000 people did several hundred years ago.

If the gold price skyrockets guess what happens? Billions will be investing into gold mines and gold production will skyrocket, this newly mined gold will be dumped on the market.

However no matter how high the bitcoin price goes it is absolutely hardcapped at 21 million coins.

In countries like Argentina, Venesuala and Lebanon the people value bitcoin highly. Even more then they do gold. You know why? Because even without any banks or a third party you can make international payments with bitcoin. This makes a big difference if your government is fucking your ass.

Can somebody explain cryptocurrencies to me? What drives their prices? Of course, it's supply and demand, but why is there demand to begin with if most cryptocurrencies - even bitcoin - are hardly used anywhere. Are they just some form of speculation?

>>23482550
Gold is a metal, just like steel or silver. Thousands of years ago when humanity lived in single story shacks and spices and meat were extreme luxerys gold was very valuable. However today gold is just another commodity. Beautiful yes, however it is just a commodity just the same.

>>23482943
thats the whole point of the thread

>>23482929
those people value goods more than bitcoin. they have to survive on a daily basis. if you are starving and are cold, you think people will say: yeah, lets get my last money into bitcoin and wait a year. bitcoin is for the wealthy, not for the poor.

>>23482929
the valuable because scarce thing would actually work if production of goods and services was capped too, but we know many things will get cheaper in time creating a demand for fiat or credit, out of the 21m bitcoin a zillion more coins can spawn, hell its already happening with shitcoins and they're not even accepted as payment (most of them)

>>23482780
Except no that doesn't support your point you fucking smooth brain

The problem with gold is that the gold miners are your enemies.

Gold miners mine old solely to dilute the supply of gold.

In europe before the discover of the new world their was a bullion shortage and the amount of money in circulation was not enough to ensure smooth trade in europe. However after the discovery of the new world the spanish brought with them back so much gold that inflation drove prices in europe much higher. Tell me if you held gold in Europe as a store of value then a bunch of spanish merchants dump millions of ounces of gold into the economy and all the prices of products go up did gold do it's job as a store of value?

Yes if you buy gold TODAY and if we have a hyper inflation in 5 years you will keep your value. However in 100 years how much more gold will be mined with modern technology?

I know for a fact that there will only ever be 21 million bitcoins.

>>23482798
https://www.economist.com/the-economist-explains/2015/03/09/what-is-quantitative-easing

>>23482943
only speculation. nothing else. its slow, no one accepts it, valued in Fiat, everyone just cares about the price. other coins are just premined, value creation out of thin air and a nice narrative for people to participate into the greater fools game. no one uses those tokens for anything. buy, shill, sell - repeat.

>>23480393
>Bitcoin and all other cryptocurrencies are backed by nothing
so exactly like the usd and all other currencies backed by it?

>>23482943
yes

>>23480428
>What Is Gold backed
a scam. always a scam. it's called a fractional reserve scam.

>>23483017
yes it fucking does cause jewelry is mostly being used for the same as gold coins and bars ie storing value, not as decoration. Most jewelry is stored inside boxes. How many rolex and diamonds are out there waiting to be sold, not being used? cmon dude..

>>23483006
The problem with that proposition of 'something might replace bitcoin in it's current role' is that there have already been 6000 cryptos that have tried to do what bitcoin does. Even the hard forks of bitcoin don't succeed in killing the network.

It's like hoping another video streaming service will beat youtube or another online shopping service will beat amazon. It's just a bad bet to make.

>>23483041

USD is backed by the belief that I can trade it for anything I want. Food, alcohol, travel tickets, technology you name it. This belief is reinforced and confirmed to be true every single day.

>>23483030
>their was a bullion shortage and the amount of money in circulation was not enough to ensure smooth trade in europe.
the very same problem can happen with btc only internationally, which means out of btc a thousand shitcoins spawn, as much as are needed

>>23483070
>USD is backed by the belief
that sounds about right
bitcoin too is backed by a belief that it will be making higher lows year after year against the usd.

>>23483070
>USD is backed by the belief
So nothing.

>>23480467
You're the only one giving a real answer and are just being laughed at because they don't know how to respond. And this is exactly what I don't understand about cryptocurrencies. Why is there any demand?

Yes, also fiat money just has value because we believe in it. But this already explains the demand for fiat money. Cryptocurrencies must only be about speculation!

>>23483046
>>23483036
Thanks!

>>23483091

So it's a speculative asset. That's the whole point.
Assets which price depends on you being able to dump them on some greater idiot later always and I mean ALWAYS crash and burn.

>>23483081
>what is a fraction?

>>23483059
its not about them replacing btc, as you said the amount of money in circulation (gold) was not enough at one point in europe because of the scare thing, and you wanna bring in an even scarcer thing than gold, which will inevitably cause a form of fiat to grow out of it to satistfy the demand for trade. If everyone holds their btc to get rich, and its the only form of money, then how can a economy even exist

>>23483091
Bitcoin, yes. But what about the other 5000 cryptocurrencies? Nobody actually believes that they will become accepted currencies some day. So it's all speculation.

>>23483081
Wrong because the extent of adoption of a monetary medium of exchange is determined by the number of users willing to use it or the Network size. Once a specific product has reached critical mass, it becomes unfavorable for a user to use anything other than that product due to the network size. 99% of shitcoins will fail. There are dozens of different metals on the periodic table but only Gold has been chosen as the reserve asset for central banks around the world.

>>23483105
>a pack of cigarretes
>that'd be 0.00000004 btc sirs
>oh wait transaction costs are 0.0003
>that'd be 0.00030004 sirs

What gold bugs don't realize is that right now the gold inflation rate is 2.16% and that is with a relatively low price of around $1900.

What happens when gold hits $10000 USD a ounce? gold production will double or triple. New gold mining technologies will be researched and implemented. the inflation rate will increase substantially.

Every 50 years at the current rate the amount of gold in the world doubles. If the price goes up that figure could go to once every 33 years.

However bitcoin is absolutely hardscaped at 21 million. No matter how many centuries pass bitcoin will always be 21 million in fully diluted supply whilst gold will become easier and easier to mine.

>>23483081
That's not true since bitcoin is almost infinitely divisible. One bitcoin can be broken into 100 million parts.

>>23483096
Glad you liked my answer

>>23483117
but btc is not useable as a regular payment system for regular goods and services...

>>23483101
>So it's a speculative asset. That's the whole point.
no that's only half of it but without a doubt bitcoin is still a speculative asset.
but it's also the only existing trustless permissionless and secure ledger that is also publicly auditable and hardcapped in supply.
since yesterdays lows are tomorrows highs you never dump on people who can't be in profit later. the greater idiot theory only applies to shitcoins with the typical pump and bleed pattern.

>>23483123
Just wait until SpaceX starts thowing solid gold asteroids at earth

>>23480393
You are 100% correct OP.
Another flaw worth mentioning is, that a currency with fixed supply does not stimulate economic growth.
People will hold on to their money for as long as possible, because it increases in value every day.
That's why only inflationary currencies provide economic growth and prosperity for a lot of people.

>>23483117
and still other elements have value, so will all the shitcoins have. you just need more people, more people, more bagholders, more shilling, new bagholders buy it from old bagholders. rinse repeat

>>23483130
it is where there is no better alternative.
the thing that you have to understand is nobody in the modern world needs bitcoin until his government/financial system tuns on them.

this is what Satoshi said.

lurk more

>>23480393
>stupid
I joined late in 2017. Still up a 100k

>>23483122
thankfully we have ln to solve the micro-transaction issue at exponential scale.

not that any moron would part with their bitcoin so casually.

>>23483101
That pretty much describes every single asset in existence.
Remember kids markets ≠ real economy.
>>23483096
Financial transactions without the banking system. That explains the demand for crypto right now.

>>23483122
>what is satoshi?
>what is micro-satoshi on lightning network?

>>23483106
People hold bitcoin right now because the market cap is only 200 billion. And to use it as money right now if you have access to fiat to spend is foolish. It is a principle to spend your 'bad money' before you spend your 'good money'.

Why did people even begin to use paper money in the first place? Originally this paper money was merely receipts people had with gold merchants so they could store their gold with them instead of risking having their gold owned personally.

Eventually these gold merchants became bankers and the people instead of trading their receipts for gold every time they want to make a purchase simply traded their receipts since the receipts were as 'good as gold'.

With bitcoin you can easily transport a billion dollars worth around with you.
Try walking around your city with 10k worth of silver. I have it is not a comfortable experience.

>>23483161
but he also actually explained it in an earlier post which he linked in that post. so he kinda did.
this is the most important thing people forget about satoshi.

>>23483130
BTC can and will be used as a regular payment for goods and services because layer 2 and layer 3 protocols can be built upon the original blockchain for small transactions.
2.) Hypothetically, BTC only needs to fulfil its role as a store of value, like Gold, in order to be valuable. Yes that means even if BTC fails to become currency, (which I highly doubt) but as a store of value asset, it will still be successful in value.

>>23483123
>Every 50 years at the current rate the amount of gold in the world doubles.

No, there is a finite amount of gold on earth.

>>23483178
I could use any stupid app to avoid the banking system, what do you mean?

>>23483178
>Financial transactions without the banking system.
so basically getting around the (((rent seekers))) making them understand that if their greed gets the better of them we have an alternative ready.

to me that's the main point of bitcoin and also the fact that i trust my own government less than the average drug dealer that samples his own product.

>>23483186
people are talking about layer 2 and 3 shit for years now, yet there is still: nothing.

>>23483194
>there is a finite amount of gold on earth
but that finite amount is so much it could cover the entire surface a meter high. the entire fucking surface including ocean floors we could all drown in the gold earth has.

>>23483194
There is gold on the moon, there is gold on mars, there is gold on asteroids. What happens when the miners get the technology in the distant future to cheaply mine gold and bring it back to earth ? The gold price will dwindle.

>>23483252
at that point in time you will be long dead so why care?

>>23483252
it could dwindle even without new supply coming in.

>>23483215
well there is two important piece missing from bitcoin protocol yet.
1) taproot will multiply layer 1 and 2 capabilities because it allows for fuckhuge smartcontracts to execute with minimal on-chain burden it allows for trustless non-custodial shared liquidity pools and so on. it kills the banks final foothold in crypto.
2) and making bitcoin a trustless pruning blockchain and increasing the layer 1 capacity after that global burden is diminished is the other. right now you need hundreds of gigabytes of hdd space to run a full node after "coinprune" (retarded name if you ask me old transactions get pruned not coins) you only need about 5 gb (basically a smartwatch can do it).
we are getting there. the next halving event will find a totally different bitcoin network here.

>>23483202
What kind of stupid apps are you talking about? Which currencies do these apps use?

>>23480467
>im gonna say something stupid and collect yous

>>23483280
oh and taproot also makes bitcoin quantum resistant as a side-effect.

>>23483183
>10k worth of silver
you need a pick-up truck and a literal chest

>>23483215
>what is LN, what is taproot?

>>23483280
that's a lot of funny words, but the problem is, nothing of this exists. so bitcoin is still useless garbage.

>>23483149
>FIAT is a good thing!
Jesus Christ.

bottom line is you all support btc cause its done nothing but go up.. during the greatest bullrun in history. Lets see how your corns do when things get tough, you had a taste during the covid scare, imagine what an actual scare or panic would do

>>23483314
It is a

>>23483265
I'm making a statement that Gold is inferior to Bitcoin because it does not have ABSOLUTE scarcity.

>>23483272
Yes, because Gold's market is going to be eaten up by Bitcoin's in the coming years.

>>23483314
It is a very good thing. Without it, the economic expansion of the last 50 years wouldn't have been possible and the world had the biggest depression of all times.

>>23483314
fiat isnt the problem, interest on money is

>>23483311
It already exists you goddamn faggot, it’s extensively tested but it does need consensus to be activated because in BTC there is no Powell waking up in the morning and printing 4 trillions at will or deciding to bring bank reserve ratio to zero

>>23483308
It's not THAT heavy. It's like 10+ KG of silver so you can carry it in a backpack but it's not fun to carry around. Try walking in a crowd of people with silver bars clanking in your backpack.

>>23483348
ok, i will send you $50 with this lightning shit if you show me a place where this is possible.

>>23483338
FUCK OFF, SERIOUSLY, GET CANCER

>>23483286
Anyone. I don't have to go to the bank to send or receive money by PayPal for example.

>>23483316
I have held bitcoin through 90% draw downs.

The dumb money that wants to get rich quick sells whilst the people who know what bitcoin is and will be in the future simply buy more.

>>23483358
You can do it from your 2010 smartphone you retarded monkey and we basically don’t need any third party.
Are you going to pay for real if I give you a LN invoice? Kek

>>23483359
nice chart. but doesn't have to do anything with what i said.

>>23483311
>that's a lot of funny words
oh boy... i tried to make it as simple as humanly possible
>nothing of this exists
yes it does
>so bitcoin is still useless garbage
rofl it already does everything it set out to do except the electronic cash thing but that was made impossible by the supply function not it's other properties. bitcoin have inflexible supply cash needs to be flexible or it can't be stable enough in purchasing power to function in peoples lives as cash.
this is econ 101. rest is just technicality.
if we ever get to the point where bitcoin demand is capped and thus it reaches price equilibrium long enough term it will function as a cash substitute just as it did in it's early hyper inflationary days.

>>23483370
yes. give me whatever app that makes this possible. i have btc.

>>23483350
i bought 100 oz silver once and it felt like the heaviest bag on earth. heavier than xrp.

>>23483331
>hurr durr max supply is superior
people dont even realize how idiotic that is. when gains over a prolonged period of time dwindle, people will start fomoing into the next big thing, thats why link is so popular, more upside potential and a huge shilling group. its all you need.

>>23483373
It’s literally because of the way fiat works

>>23483338
This is bait.
>>23483340
You mean debt-based creation of money, which is only possible on a FIAT currency system. A centralized private bank dictates the value of the currency.
>>23483361
How do you charge your PayPal account?

>>23483401
>This is bait.
It's not. If there is not enough money supply the economy can't grow. Why do you think the Gold-backed USD was abolished?

50% of all the gold ever mined has been mined since 1967, and 80% of all gold ever brought above ground was mined since 1910

Imagine trying to store value in something that doubles in quantity every 50 years (and that is not accounting for modern mining techniques)

>>23483389
DYEL brah?

With Bitcoin, XRP and others we keep the FED in check. Then once the switch is flipped so is technology. We will turn lead into gold and transmute other metals. I will personally donate 5kg of golden ropes to all PMG anons. By that time there is a quasi unlimited supply of precious of metals. Gold and Silver, which they have a lot of, and have used it all throughout history to control the goyim will now be worth 0. We regain complete (((financial))) independence and the interdimensional financial war is won, PMG anons are now holding shiny rocks. Everybody else uses monoatomic Gold and other exotic rocks for their personal use.
Btw I am fully unmedicated and I hold XRP

>>23483397
upside potential is not correlated to supply bitcoin had most of it's insane neck breaking bull runs while it was in a highly inflationary phase.

>>23483397
>hurr durr people will start foaming into the next big thing

Gold has stayed the same price for 20 years. Where exactly is the fomo of central banks and investors into another metal such as silver? Where's the mass exodus? oh right they won't and can't because it requires mass co-ordination on a global scale and unlimited resources.

>>23480393
“Backed by” go back to business school scam uni faggo.

It’s a network moron, the more people in it the greater the utility.

>>23483424
the rate mining yields increase is not linear. it's exponential with a small exponent.

>>23483384
Ok thx, waiting...
https://bluewallet.io/
(I already had it installed btw)

>>23483418
So that the banks can issue as much debt plus interest as they wish it's simple really.
>What is divisibility

Bitcoin is a piece of shit. Its sole contribution was to make blockchain tech apparent to the world.

Blockchain tech is impressive, because of its properties others have already described (mainly tamper-proof). Impressive, not valuable. A CBDC would be valuable, as it is literally just the dollar on a blockchain. But this just means it still has the flaws of the dollar.

Smart contract platforms (mainly just ETH right now) on the other hand are VALUABLE. The value is backed by the total value of the dApps built on the network. Obviously the value of a lending dApp is straightforward: total collateral locked. The value of an online game is less obvious, but not hard to see: value is backed by the people's desire to play the game (see runescape gold economics. People assigned $ value to runescape gold because of X activities it would let you do ingame).
(Im not saying ETH should be used as a currency, that's dumb. Nobody would use Microsoft shares as a currency).

>>23480498
>stable
I agree
>regulated
I haven't made up my mind yet
>capable of handling high volume instantaneous transactions
Agreed

>depreciates in value so people don't just hoard it
Disagree. Lack of hoarding dollars isn't because it would depreciate in value. I'd argue lack of hoarding is mainly due to having the option to earn interest. I see nothing wrong with hoarding during economic uncertainty.

>>23483397
your proposition that because the percentage rise in value will decrease , therefore the people will stop using that asset as a store of value is utterly preposterous. Chainlink can go up by 1000x but tank to 0 within seconds if it doesn't have Bitcoin's foundations. Your argument is retarded.

>>23483418
Man you have really been drinking the MMT coolaid haven't you.
Try reading some Austrian economics and realize that it is not the quantity of money that dictates economic growth but rather a increase in production.
Do you not think that having 240 trillion dollars in debt to run a 80 trillion dollar world economy is a problem?
Do you not think that having house prices go from 3 years of salary to 30 years of salary is a problem?
You are attributing the last 50 years of economic growth to fiat money printing when you should attribute it to the dramatic technological advances we have achieved.

>>23483468
>So that the banks can issue as much debt plus interest as they wish it's simple really.
That is exactly what is needed by the economy. You need money to start businesses. That's why it's such a good thing.

>>23480393
How are you nocoiner?

>>23483496
>Do you not think that having 240 trillion dollars in debt to run a 80 trillion dollar world economy is a problem?
No.
>Do you not think that having house prices go from 3 years of salary to 30 years of salary is a problem?
Yes. Maybe build more houses and price will come down.
>You are attributing the last 50 years of economic growth to fiat money printing when you should attribute it to the dramatic technological advances we have achieved.
No. I attribute it to the technological advances that were made possible by businesses having money to invest in R&D.

>>23483496
This

>>23483523
>Yes. Maybe build more houses and price will come down.
Jesus Christ how can you be so fucking retard. The cost of land increased 100x as well. You need land to build on.

Stop talking about Bitcoin, this already is an established currency - at least in the cryptocurrency field. But why is there demand for all the other cryptocurrencies? Why did people buy dogecoin? It's just speculation, right ?

>>23483544
>Jesus Christ how can you be so fucking retard. The cost of land increased 100x as well. You need land to build on
Great. But that would have increased anyway. With or without Fiat. It's just that there are more people.

>>23483331
>I'm making a statement that Gold is inferior to Bitcoin because it does not have ABSOLUTE scarcity.

If you are going to cite inter-planetary mining as a threat to gold scarcity, then on that time scale there are likely to be unforeseen threats and alternatives to bitcoin also.

>>23481279
energy from nuclear is a thing
we'd have to change all existing infrastructure, but we'll have plenty of energy

>>23483564
>Why did people buy dogecoin? It's just speculation, right ?
Yes

>>23483496
this.

>>23483475
>hold Microsoft stock
>buy $5 coffee with it
>all done seamlessly in the background by XRP for a very minor fee

>get paid $5 by some idiot
>immediately turn it into Microsoft stock or other appreciating asset
>all done seamlessly by XLM in the background

Today your folio is 90% real estate, 5% stocks, 5% cash tomorrow you are 90% stocks and 10% XRP. Where the gains are, your folio will follow. AUTOMATICALLY AND SEAMLESSLY

>>23483566
No, it’s because big financial institutions can buy hard asset with free negative interest rate money, and you little wagecück cannot (without being enslaved forever with a lifetime mortgage)

>>23480522
don't forget: it's the only gold colored metal, so any dumb nigger can look at it and say "yeah that's gold"

>>23483585
>hurr durr interplanetary mining won't happen

What is space X doing ? You think we will be sitting on our ass for the next 50 years on this planet? Absolutely clueless. Gold has infinite supply PERIOD.

Threats to stores of value assets are only advancements in technology, Which Bitcoin is, relative to Gold. After the technology has arrived, it is down to the Network effect to decide which asset is the winner-take-all.

>>23483606
show me the balance sheet of a big financial institution that owns massive amounts of land and just resells it to "the little guy"

Remember anons, all money only has value because people agree it has value.
You're a lair if you say you don't value bitcoin, because you would snap it up if I was selling it for $50 a coin. You can beleive it's overvalued compared to other money, and therefore would trade it immediately, but you still admit it has value. If enough people feel its overvalued, the value will drop to zero.
We will see over the coming years, but so far it seems lots of people agree that it is in fact undervalued.

>>23483637
I agree it’s greatly undervalued. And hundreds thousand of people agrees with that as well. This is enough to keep it going regardless of what muh enlighten mmt socialist economists think. We don’t care, we just need electricity and most of it it’s coming from renewables.
Do you understand?
WE
DON’T
CARE
BTC DOESN’T CARE about what you think

>>23483635
>BlackRock Real Estate currently has $24 billion in assets under management, but the plan is to aggressively expand it
And no, they are not selling it, they are renting it, so you little cück will be left with not a single piece of land and enslaved for the next 100 generations

>>23480393
> backed by nothing
They are backed by pure unadulterated hatred for the FED and their uber jewish tricks so I'd say it's pretty valuable.

>>23483505
Money retard, not debt plus interest while devaluing the underlying currency. What a moron.

>>23483813
money can't exist without debt.

>>23483859
On a FIAT system, correct. That is not the only viable economic system that exists. Now stop baiting.

>>23483859
more like money was always debt
otherwise it can't function as money

>>23483896
>That is not the only viable economic system that exists
name one other that exists right now

>>23483859
smart people understand this

money has always been debt. useful money has to be debt.
it represents liability. basically a promise of future performance.
debt with 0% interest and as close to no counterparty risk as possible.
you transform and trade various forms of obligations though your life. and money represents some of it.

money is not made of nothing it represents liability. basically a promise of future performance. money always has been just that and nothing more.

the fiat system is the ultimate evolution of money. it's not inherently evil but it is constantly abused. it's human nature to abuse it really. just like we abuse our planet that gave life to us.

>>23483982
Ngl, 6/10
I'm actually kinda upset by how wrong this is.

basically the way i see it bitcoin is not money and it can't be money because of it's fundamental properties not technical reasons.

basically money will be better for buying stuff and bitcoin will be better for savings. but unlike boomer rocks bitcoin can be transacted across the globe disregarding borders and jurisdictions or secured by a private person in a very inexpensive and safe manner. which means bitcoin just for this will be a better store of value than gold but there are also the inflationary properties of the two asset to consider.

the banks were born because travelers had trouble securing or transporting their gold with them. if you go back in history that's how banking began.
and that is how bitcoin kills the bank. of course today banks are mostly issuing money by lending as a main function but most people use them for storing their savings (in a very trustful and custodial manner just like in the days of the first bank)

>>23484035
it's the ultimate truth about money. you don't have to pick the red pill anon. stick to the blue. listen to crooks like mike maloney and peter schiff that will gladly take your usd for their shiny rocks they so seem to rever.

>>23480404
Same

>>23483982
in fact i want to change this last sequence.

fiat is a trust and authority based system and trust and authority will eventually be abused always with no exception.

so even if you have a "crypto" that is not issued like fiat but still has a trusted authority which can be a single entity or a group of entities will be eventually abused.

>>23484074
Nah its not. But I have a rule about arguing things that can be disproven with 5 mins of googling. Great b8 tho, saved

>>23484160
go ahead you can't but you can pretend to if you fail to actually understand and think about what i wrote citing random sources from people who never understood money like 99.99% of all people that ever lived.

>>23484178
No doubt you rely on a retarded definition of money.

>>23480393
Bitcoin and especially other new cryptocurrencies that are less expensive and more efficient are literally more money than anything else on this fucking planet.

>>23484242
more like i dug below the surface properties and technicalities and got to it's core of why and how it functions as money.

you should try too. just pick up a coin and start pondering, why would anyone give or do me anything for this?

think of human interactions and value exchanged in a more abstract way and you may get there.

>>23484305
Mystic 'i know a secret that others dont' schlock is D-level fake guru shit. Define money in a concrete way or forever remain a faggot

>>23484335
i did read >>23483982
it's a generalized iou it's debt with little to no counter party risk and no or negative interest which is a specific form of social contract.

>>23484423
As predicted >>23484242