/biz/ - Business & Finance

In the latter I can save for early retirement. In the former the state chooses how many years I must work.

>>22961724

It's a question of decentralized wealth vs. a system where the wealth is centralized.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7ywpfOOn7k&ab_channel=CoveringDelta

>>22961724
respond to the fucking video. you cunt.

>>22961765

>600 billionaires control the economy

Seems pretty centralized to me

>>22961765
>>22961802
In reality, both are forms of centralized wealth. The latter is just a slightly looser version.

>>22961724
it's almost like extremes are retarded and constant pull/push needs to occur to discover the optimal economics of a functioning society. whoa.

>>22961754
>early retirement

retirement is a spook. good job falling for the boomer meme though.

>>22961839
1 branch of the government was responsible for a loss of a considerable portion of US's GDP. 600 billionaires are more decentralized than a single fucking branch of government.

furthermore, in the economy, it's always a different set of 600 greedy capitalists. it's cyclic. A star rises and falls based on merit and value propositions alone, whereas in government we have career politicians.

https://www.aei.org/carpe-diem/fortune-500-firms-1955-v-2017-only-12-remain-thanks-to-the-creative-destruction-that-fuels-economic-prosperity/

fucking respond bitch.

>>22961852

https://www.aei.org/carpe-diem/fortune-500-firms-1955-v-2017-only-12-remain-thanks-to-the-creative-destruction-that-fuels-economic-prosperity/

Is it? Is it really? FUcking jesus christ do I have to reiterate a fucking statistic.

>>22961914
no. it really isn't. and the value statement of x amount of billionaires vs a government is entirely different.

>>22961907
Not everyone is so poor as to have retirement even out of reach of their mind.

>>22961974
https://www.aei.org/carpe-diem/fortune-500-firms-1955-v-2017-only-12-remain-thanks-to-the-creative-destruction-that-fuels-economic-prosperity/
https://www.aei.org/carpe-diem/fortune-500-firms-1955-v-2017-only-12-remain-thanks-to-the-creative-destruction-that-fuels-economic-prosperity/
https://www.aei.org/carpe-diem/fortune-500-firms-1955-v-2017-only-12-remain-thanks-to-the-

JESUS FUCKING

wow what a meeting of the minds we have here

>>22961802
CEO of spazzing

>>22962000
retirement is a ponzi scheme. I'm sorry you're too retarded to recognize the reality.

>>22962031

>>22962048

>>22962005
1955 to 2017 was a wide span of time. what is your actual point and what value do I get dissolving a government and rebuilding A GOVERNMENT headed by x amount of billionaires? It's stil centralized and it's still a government, just one lead by some neo-nobility feudalistic retardation vs the semblance of choice and democracy.

>>22962083

It's simple. The government serves a purpose, it offers a unique value proposition, just don't fucking take it to the extremes. Bad shit happens. They have a monopoly on war for fucks sakes.

The billionares are at each-others throats for a larger share of the market, to do this they need to please the populace which is why we get shit like the gillete ad. "A best a man can get". There will always be bad actors, but if the machine is broken into several hundred segments of power, and the ones that become corrupt lead short lives before a quick downfall, and it only affects that isolated segment, it's gucci. The government encompasses the population as a whole, it is very unique in this, and is valuable, just keep it reigned in.

>>22961724
Shouldn't the first one say "work and starve" ?

>>22962194
more delusion. American history already demonstrated confederacy doesn't work (Articles of Confederation) and generally Federalist ideals won out all the way up to the tipping point of a supreme federal government. No one wants a "decentralized governance" where retards can do retarded things in their bordered corners and your feudalism was provably destroyed for how anti-freedom and moronic it was. You're living in the delusional past and have missed the great push and pull of ideas that have gotten us to 2020. seek help you psycho retard. You're whatever amount of billionaire fag shit neo-nobility is a dead end idea.

>>22962246

>>22961724
Based

>>22962277
We're talking finances. MONEY. Not governance. I don't give a fuck about policies. I don't give a fuck about laws. I CARE ABOUT SHIT LIKE 2.3 TRILLION DOLLARS CAN SIMPLY GO MISSING and all anyone can do is light up a cigarette and crack a beer. You got rugpulled by the centralized system that unites all of us together, because it's bad with money. If you have 600 people where 90% of them are good with money and 10% are bad, this is a better ratio than 100% of the system being terrible with money. Fucking. Refute this.

>>22962277
https://www.investopedia.com/updates/usa-national-debt/#:~:text=The%20ratio%20of%20debt%20to,by%20the%20end%20of%202020.

https://www.thebalance.com/interest-on-the-national-debt-4119024


It isn't like the government can accumulate debt for free. More and more of the government's budget is being allocated to paying the interest in the 20 trillion in debt. How is this stable.?

>>22962246

Funny enough, free market capitalism gave us the term starvation wages.

>>22961724
Obviously, if wage workers in Russia, from 1917 to 1991, would have been exploited to the death by republican liberal Capitalism, like they were in England by the end of the 19th century, it would have been better. R-right?
Never underestimate that if it has a different name (USSR vs "democracy"), different uniforms, it is fundamentally different. The reality of the fundamental social relationships don't matter. What matters really is always the appearances.

>>22961914
>1 branch of the government was responsible for a loss of a considerable portion of US's GDP. 600 billionaires are more decentralized than a single fucking branch of government.
wow you are retarded. you think those billionaires are divided ideologically or something? looool

>>22962522
>Pointing out where a term comes from
wow you got him!

>>22962246
wow, good 1 fellow TPUSA patriot xD

>>22962194
>The billionares are at each-others throats for a larger share of the market,
you are delusional dude.
it's all a big club, and you ain't in it.

>>22963380
When RealCommunism™ is implemented, everything in the economy will be controlled and owned by a central party and state, and you ain't in it. In Capitalism, the big boy club owns 70% of the world's wealth. In Communism it will be 100%.

Please tell me you're not an anarco-communist..

>>22961724
ftfy

>>22963530
>and you ain't in it.
That wouldn't be RealCommunism™, then, would it?

>>22963644
You need a central authoritative state to enforce wealth sharing and redistribution because many people won't want to share (e.g. Kulaks and middle-upper class telling the state to fuck off), and it's a massive undertaking to redistribute wealth without a massive state to organize and force it. This is why an egalitarian anarco-type Communism will never work.

Anyways, giving all the power and wealth to a single central party always ends up with power hungry and greedy party members taking more and more and giving less back to the people. That's why all Communist experiments so far ended up as corrupt inefficient authoritarian states. Also the unicorn examples of tiny egalitarian socialist states don't count as they did not last long enough to become corrupt centralized states (or they were just small communities, where decentralized egalitarian socialism/communism can actually work realistically).

Anyways, my point is that a centralized authoritative state that doesn't redistribute shit and hoard all the power and resources is the natural conclusion of Communism. Thus it is RealCommunism™.

>>22963838
so what does that make the shitshow we have now

>>22964092
Still better than RealCommunism™. Maybe I like it more than you because I'm doing pretty well in it, and I have lot to lose it Communism/Socialism does happen (and for NEETs like you only everything to gain).

The current crony capitalism owned by monopolies is far from perfect, but I am mature enough to understand that we can go left-wing enough to beat the shit out of monopolies and corporations to restore a healthy market capitalism.

Meanwhile angry online NEET Commies like you and others ITT will suggest destroying everything and burning down the world just to give 100% of the world's wealth to a small exclusive party.

>>22961724
the top is STARVE or STARVE

>>22964277
you don't know how any of this works, your talking points sound like boomer shit from the 1980s.

newsflash: the billionaires you keep fellating have more concentrated power than any communist state in history

>>22963838
>admits communism can and has worked realistically but claims it doesn't count because it was local-scale or didn't last long (nevermind that a lot of communist experiments were ended forcibly by military actions by Capitalist-controlled nations)
>creates a strawman "RealCommunism™" that isn't that and doesn't align with what real communists advocate

You're not making a very strong argument here, bud.

Central banking is the main reason everything is so fucked and we have no future, yet commies support it.

Eat shit commie bootlickers.

>>22961724
So what is the difference then? Why would I ever choose working or starving in communism over working and starving in capitalism? Is this supposed to be a compelling argument?

>>22964346
the point is they both suck and we need a 3rd position. but keep feeling smug and loving capitalism because muh 401k currently looks good, boomer

>>22964330
>(nevermind that a lot of communist experiments were ended forcibly by military actions by Capitalist-controlled nations)
Communism had a LOT of chances to thrive without any interventionism from "capitalist powers" yet failed miserably.
Why did Ethiopia turn into a massive genocidal shithole where everyone starved?

Just give it up already, you people are religious fundamentalists.

>>22964376
We don't live in capitalism.
What we need is a free market with no central bank.
Why wouldn't you want your wages and savings to increase over time instead of being destroyed through central banking?

You have to work or starve in life in general.
Capitalists offer you an opportunity out of starvation and allow you to thrive. You can do this or create your own wealth.
Work or starve is the dumbest fucking criticism of capitalism ever.

>>22964277
>neets gain in communism
Nothing could be further then the truth. Actual communists hate anti social behavior. NEETs can exist in a capitalist system. NEETs would be murdered in a communist system for being unfriendly leeches the community see's as a pest.

The difference in communism is whether or not the elite see you as a valuable laborer or a valuable consumer. I'd rather be a consumer

>>22964323
You didn't address anything I said, and:

"the billionaires you keep fellating have more concentrated power than any communist state in history"

Is an older rhetoric that mine (and also hilariously wrong) so fuck off and die Grandpa. Never forget Marxism is more than 100 years old. Stop pretending it's hot new shit for hip young kids.

>>22964330
I clearly stated why it doesn't count. You're a fucking idiot. My point is that Communist experiments that didn't get ended by Cap nations all fucked itself up due to its own weakness to corruption. No wars needed.

>"creates a strawman "RealCommunism™" that isn't that and doesn't align with what real communists advocate"

Of course real communists don't advocate it. I'm just saying all communist experiments end up as corrupt centralized states because Communism depends too much on central authority. I'm just saying that's how all communist experiments end up in reality.

>>22964478
>female hunter

>>22964323
>newsflash: the billionaires you keep fellating have more concentrated power than any communist state in history
Not really, the central bank and government has far more power.
If we took all of this wealth from the billionaires it wouldn't actually help us, it would just cause prices to skyrocket and we wouldn't be any better off. We would be consuming the same amount of goods as before and have the same working conditions.

>>22964323
You mean jews?

>>22964330
Also if you think Communism in a local scale compared to a national/global scale is the same thing is fucking idiotic.

Success of small scale Communism CAN NOT be used to imply it will work for America or any other country.

>>22962047
>t. phoneposting under the desk in 10th grade geography class
Pensions were a ponzi scheme, and that is why pensions hardly ever exist anymore.
You fund your own retirement and work for a not-dogshit employer who matches your contributions.
You should be on track to be a millionaire by your mid-50s if you do it right and that includes spending plenty of your money on hookers and vacations.

>>22964330
>"ended forcibly by military actions"
>can't defend itself from outside forces
>works

>>22964775
Meanwhile online NEET Commies often cite Germany's defeat in WWII as definite 100% proof why Fascism sucks

>>22964817
Fascism does suck.

>>22961914
based and redpilled

>>22964834
yeah I'm just saying commies at /his/ often cites Germany's defeat as a definite proof why Fascism sucks which is such a lazy and retarded world view.

>>22961724

>>22964879
Yeah, wasn't meaning to accuse you. You're right, it's a pretty simplistic take on things.

>>22961724
>implying that "work the way we tell you to or starve BECAUSE we won't feed you to offset the force of nature that causes you to starve" is in any way at all equivalent to "you may work in whatever way you want to in order to earn money to buy food, or you will starve BECAUSE forces of nature may have you starve"
haha but you made yourself impervious to arguments because you prefaced your post with a remark implying that everyone who responds with anything that apparently disproves you is gaslighting, which definitely isn't gaslighting!
not to mention, the sóyjak meme is used to represent someone who is in favor of what is essential to involuntarism—higher taxes, diversity quotas, the abolition of a recognition of private property—and yet you try to associate him with such a fundamentally voluntarist idea as anarcho-capitalism

whether "your candidate" wins or loses this election, we're inching ever-closer to a future in which you have no middleman to distribute my funds to you :^)
you'd better find a way to earn an income that doesn't involve them; mcdonalds is always hiring low-skill applicants (until automated systems fill those positions entirely)

>>22961724
Communist one is work AND starve, OP.

>>22961724
Western Communists rarely if ever believe in “work or starve” ethics. The whole point of Communism for them is to emancipate people from the need to work. This is why Western Communists gave up on the USSR, some even going so far as to call it “Red Fascism”. In their minds Communism was supposed to be la la fantasyland where everyone is free to become an artist or sexual deviant, all while not working. Not to say that this perception was fair, but Western Leftists/antifa today don’t even believe in this meme, as the top half is for them red fascism

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