/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>22014362
Source?

Yet they will happily throw taxpayers money at shell companies to give their mates some cash. 130m PPE contract that went to a pest control company. Or how about when they got found in contempt of court for giving a multi million contest to a ferry company with no ferries. Fucking cunts

>>22014362
Prove it

>>22014362
The tories would get slaughtered by the banksters

clogchads win again

>>22014362
Not going to happen.

would completely annihilate investment. won't happen, at least not under the tories. when labour get in then yes expect this

>>22014362
dude monero lmao

Yeah I'm moving to Portugal. Thank fuck I'm eu national.

>>22014381
>>22014405
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/coronavirus-tax-rise-budget-capital-gains-pension-income-rishi-sunak-a9695841.html

Fuck this shithole, moving to Portugal were you don't have to pay any tax on crypto

If this happens I am legit out lmao

>>22014362
simple, buy LOKI
don't fucking sell
buy TRB
don't fucking sell
buy AKRO
don't fucking sell
buy YFV
don't fucking sell

What the fuck guys? you didn't learn shit from LINK?

>>22014362
honestly put aside any hopes of myself going on a nice holiday next year because of the news today about these new tax hikes. fuck this country, it's absolute garbage run by idiots and morons. if pnk hits 5 dollars im taking out 5% and moving to germany to avoid paying taxes here, this country does not deserve my money. it's already bad enough being trans and british, fuck

>>22014362
Great that's just another excuse for me to leave this country. I'm genuinely fucking off to Portugal next month. The UK as a country is so dead it's like living in a meme nation at this point.

This will reduce tax revenue in the future. it limits growth.
The state would get far more tax revenue if it taxes capital gains less and allows the economy to grow.

If this happens I'm going to Portugal

>continue to work remotely full time for the entirety of lockdown, no handouts or furlough
>taxed to the hilt at the end of it to subsidise the temporary preservation of a huge amount of useless jobs that are already gone
It's fucked. No way the tories go for corporation tax, it'll be us they go after.

>>22014562
>>22014971
>>22015117
oh wow i just read about portugal, i will move there instead of germany. thank you anons i never knew about the crypto tax stuff there
>>22015178
will you move country?

>>22015178
ive been on furlough for the duration and probably will be till the end of October which will be 7 months. Admittedly ive had a pay cut on furlough but being paid to not work is super based. Also a month of half price food has been brilliant but economically I can't see how that makes any sense, either way when I make it I'm out of here

>>22015062
>>22015117
How does this actually work? Has anyone here done this

>>22014362
Reminder that 'moving to Portugal' is a meme for newfags who havent dyor. Hmrc will still come after you in Portugal and Portuguese banks work with HMRC. The only way to avoid tax is to first become a portuguese citizen then invest portuguese money in crypto then cash that out.

>>22014592
>https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/coronavirus-tax-rise-budget-capital-gains-pension-income-rishi-sunak-a9695841.html
jesus christ seriously fuck this communist country

>>22014362
Lol they just robbing you LMAO
But I'm in Canada so eh I'll britbros one day you're island wont be a dank dystopian nightmare

>>22014362
when you offshore your money to the US because the taxes are cheaper to pay there than your home country.
>You can keep your tea

>>22014362
The mail story implies that equalising capital gains tax with income tax is only on the cards for gains on second properties (capital gains tax is already higher for properties). Not saying we won't also get a rise, but probably not quite as brutal as OP suggests.

>>22014415
but they wont, because they hold all their assets in offshore vehicles, redistributed via shell companies upon shell companies obfuscating where the funds go to.

BJ earns some £100k + wirting articles for the daily fail, do you think is declared? No, his time is probably charged by a company whom he is not a direct beneficiary, however a shareholder of a company that holds nothing but share capital of the company that charges out his work.

This company that charges out his work at best probably pays 10% offshore corp tax on these earnings. And at worst pays nothing if there are liabilities against the income that offset any equity.

I wouldn't pay tax in this country anyway if I was cashing out. No way norf Fc and Ahmed's 7 kids are getting my money

>>22014362
OI YOU A LOICENCE FOR THAT MONEY PRINTER?

>>22015455
So you're saying it's not the case of changing our primary residence and tax residency to Portugal and staying out of the UK for 6 months of the year?
I don't think it's a meme anon, people move to tax havens all the time.

>>22014362
Imagine being british lmao
Thank god I got here before Brexit so I can reap the SWEET London wages, that I invest into crypto.
Once my chosen coins reach the price I want, I am fucking back to utopia Hungary and cashing out with my parents 3 plus my 2 other bank accounts paying not tax what so ever
Feels good to be from a first world country, imagine paying tax so you can be replaced by Akhmed and Khawaja

>>22015455
go away mr Sunak

>>22015347
>>22015455
you have to become a resident in portugal and live there for a year. after a year you're no longer considered a UK tax resident. cash out after that and buy portugese property.
>>22015665
he's probably thinking they'll come after you for your crypto-to-crypto trades that you made while in the UK before moving abroad. maybe he has a point but personally i dont think they'll bother after a year, maybe 3 years.

>>22015037
Got me

>>22015665

Are you obliged to pay tax once you sell or cash out in the UK? at what point are you supposed you change residence for you to be safe?

>>22015732


>>22015665
The point is that the profits from any GBP invested in crypto are taxable by hmrc. It doesnt matter if u cash out in euros into a portuguese bank as a portuguese citizen. If you made the initial investments as a uk citizen with gbp then you owe hmrc. The Portuguese bank will report the cash you deposit with them to hmrc. Hmrc have the power to freeze that Portuguese bank account.

Fuckin hell lads, never going to make it staying here

>>22015834
Is it time to start buying crypto in euros?

>>22015834
i am finished

>>22015834
Huh. Because of a quirk with coinbase when I first started buying crypto I have been exclusively buying in Euros (send GBP to revolut, convert to euros, send to coinbase). Does this mean I'm safe from this shit if I do move?

>>22015834
for how many years after being a resident in portugal will the portugese bank continue to report my cash deposits to hmrc? surely no longer than 5 years if you become a permanent resident?

>>22014362
I won't have to pay this if I cash out now, right?

>>22015914
You already know he's gonna tell you they'll source it back to your revolut deposit in GBP

i hate this bastard country i want to suicide. they dont deserve my money, not when everything is falling apart here

>2 people trade something between eachother
>exchange takes a small fee (usually 0.X%)
>Government does nothing and expects 40%

The fuck... This is just stealing.

JUST PRINT MONEY LIKE THE US YOU FUCKING RETARDS

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

further confirmation that this dumpster fire of a country has no future. and this under a """conservative""" government
does anyone have any genuine advice on how to gtfo, other than
>just move to poortugal lmao

>>22015954
this one is waking up
quick

>>22015954

uk is a fucking nanny state, they need all the money they can get from normies. disgusting

>>22015838
What fucking gets me is that with a Stocks and Shares ISA I can make all the money and not pay ANY tax but if I decide to invest in an asset which is a lot more speculative like crypto I have to pay all this tax

Shitting me out in England is something I will never, ever, forgive my spawn sow for.

>living in anglo hell hole

>>22015954
Not only that, but the money used on the trade was ALREADY taxed when you received your income. They are taxing it AGAIN to take 40% of your profit.
It’s clownish stealing on a whole new level.

>>22015954
CUT HIS MIC

>>22016076
and then will tax it again if you try to buy something with it, VAT, and again if you die and leave it to someone, inheritance tax.

>>22015954
i am capping this for future chuckles
>>22016077
doesnt the uk having the largest spy organisation out of every country?

>>22015834
Btw what is your source on this? Checked HMRC website on domicile status and under capital gains it clearly says gains you realise aren't taxable in the UK if you are nonuk domiciled. The three exceptions it lists don't seem to apply to selling assets you originally bought in the UK.

>>22015838
>the bloodeh rich don't pay enuff tax in this cuntreh!
kek this is anal rapeage. imagine making a cosy £1m and only being allowed to keep £550. You basically need to make £5m before taxes here to make it. And for what, to live in a dying vapid socialist multicultural left wing society.

>>22016096
Hahahahaha I can only laugh this is so fucked up holy shit hahahahahaha what disgusting clown world criminals

>>22016112
could you please post the link with this info?

>>22014362
Pay your taxes goy

Thats it im moving to switzerland

>>22016137
>And for what, to live in a dying vapid socialist multicultural left wing society.

It blows my mind how expensive everything is in the UK, everything decent that is.

>>22015548
Things like ^This. They've got all kinds of moves, moves you can't even imagine. There's a documentary on YouTube that's well worth watching called Britain's Second Empire.

It's not called Treasure Island for nothing.

https://youtu.be/-YgFDZNXPyg

>>22014362
The "asian" immigrants need your support, man. How else will they afford to have 5 children? Don't be greedy.

This country fucked up so bad with coronavirus why do we have to pay for it

>>22016112
Gains your realise exactly. You realised the gains while you were a citizen of UK though.

>>22015838
lol, you are like le petit bébé
look at moi
>*commie taxes intensifies*

>>22014362
I guess I'm never cashing out.

>>22016459
they say so thats why and it isnt right. i am mad

>>22016495
You actually owe tax on any profit, regardless on whether you cash out

>>22016539
imagine the smell

>conservatives taxing the shit out of me
>any lefty party would tax the shit out of me EVEN MORE
>libertarianism will never grow here because spastic mums hate freedom
>ethnonats would probably tax the shit out of me too

>>22015548
>>22016252

I worked in offshore accountancy for some years, specifically Gibraltar, you wouldnt believe the legalities of how these fuckers make moves with their wealth.

Difference between being rich and wealthy, you can lose your entire net worth in a lifetime being 'rich', wealth on the other hand..

>>22016482
don't you only realise the gains once you cash out though?
Further to anon's point >>22016112
>Non-residents have to pay tax on income, but only pay Capital Gains Tax either:
>on UK property or land
>if they return to the UK

>40% suicide rate
>40% tax rate
being trans AND British is hell. I hope this Portugal tax thing isn't a meme

>>22016539
Uk doesn’t recognise crypto as money though so you would need to cash out to realise ‘profits’ as per their definition.

>>22016549
smells like swamp

>>22016096
Kek there really is no escaping the boogy man

>>22015834
PLEASE HELP AND ADVICE
UK ANNONS. What do we do?

I have doubts considering that these tax hikes would DIRECTLY target the Tory party's main backers and investors, but we'll see if they're dumb enough.

I mean this is literally the main pro-business, pro-middle class party carrying out anti-business, anti-middle class policies that would make Labour proud.

>>22016800
if you're a non resident of the uk for a year you're not eligible to pay capital gains tax anymore except if you buy uk property. you only realise your gains once you cash out.

>>22015954
Everyone who thinks like you fucked off to America 250 years ago. 50 years after that they've kicked out the rest of the free-thinkers to Australia. What we have left in the UK are subservient genetic phenotype of a sheep.

>>22016700

Wrong. All crypto-to-crypto trades are taxable. This is 100% established.

I'm amazed some people STILL think you only pay tax when you cash out.

>>22016843
*sell uk property

>>22016846
>Wrong. All crypto-to-crypto trades are taxable. This is 100% established.

>>22016846
i will be sent a letter asking for some of my pnk? i am genuinely confused here. i thought i only got taxed after i cashed out. i already get tv license letters every 2 weeks ffs i dont need more of this shit government asking me for more money ffs

>>22015838
fuckin hell, thats about half what we have to pay in Australia

>>22016879
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/tax-on-cryptoassets

crypto-crypto is the equivalent of 'disposing of an asset' to realise a gain

>>22016941
you like it in the UK don't you

>>22016816
>I mean this is literally the main pro-business, pro-middle class party carrying out anti-business, anti-middle class policies that would make Labour proud.
it's ALWAYS like this, are you a newborn? Leftists parties always pass the most liberal laws while conservatives parties always pass the most socialist laws. It's because they know they avoid scrutiny and the opposition wont complain about it. Welcome to clown world anon, this whole hegelian dystopia is just a show so the boomers don't feel like they live under a talmudic tyranny regime.

>>22016907
A quick google will answer your questions.
The uk views crypto investments the same way as stocks and shares.
You dont pay any tax on profits made up to £12,500. And you dont pay untill the profits are realised, or in other words, when you cash you have until before April the following year to declare the taxes owed. Or you can pay a account to hide it away.

>>22016848

US tax isn't really that much better. If you make $130k/£100k p/a, you keep about an extra £8k in the US. However, you have to pay for health insurance (and usually more costs on top if you do need treatment), more property tax, and other costs, all while having far fewer safety nets.

You might get to keep a few thousand more, but at a cost. And depending on your lifestyle, you could actually end up worse off as some things in the US are considerably more expensive than Bongland.

>>22016985
oh so im ok if i hold? thanks for replying to me

>>22016907
If you bought PNK at 1c and sell at 1 dollar you have to pay tax on that profit even if you traded it for ETH/BTC, it counts as realising your gains. If it goes to 1 dollar and don't sell you won't have to pay anything until you do. So if you're planning to move just don't do any transactions that realise your gains more than your tax free allowance until your domicile status has changed.

>>22016816
The tories have been enacting policies that destroy their English base for years. Now the main figures are pajeets and you're only going to get more pajeet policies.

>>22016963
meh

>>22016846
In burgerland yes
In the UK no

>>22015954

>>22016843
Let's say if they put CGT to income rate. They can't do it for this Financial year. It HAS to be for next year correct? So in November they'll announce it?

>>22014362
I've got a better idea: I'M NOT. FUCKING. PAYING.

Why have they always got to fuck over the middle class like this. You know all the big companies and investment firms aren't paying this much (if anything at all).

I wasn't happy about paying 20%...but 40%?? They've put me in a position where I'm going to have to move somewhere where they don't insist on raping you.

>>22017048
>>22016941

kek the only thing this does is fuck the middle class up
Let us be realistic here... any wealthy individuals will (if they have not already done so) simply domicile themselves in the isle of man, or the jersey isles, or some island crown dependency for tax purposes, where they will enjoy 0% CGT (yes, zero percent capital gains tax: see isle of man).
The ONLY people this proposal, if instituted, would harm is those in the middle class, primarily those with most of their wealth in property and stocks via wealth management companies of some kind.
Furthermore let us be frank and call it out for what it really is: in the context of crypto, it is a direct attack on zoomers who want to bypass the horrid system of wealth acquisition that the powers-that-be try to shove down our throats.
I am ever astonished as the incredible myopia our government exhibits... how could one possibly believe that a CGT hike would do anything but defer our current issues where they will fester silently in the background, worsening and solidifying into a full-blown revolutionary crisis. Wealth inequality is a major issue, yet instead of leveling the playing field they seek to destroy the very same ladders they climbed up on.
In the era of mass politics one cannot simply close the gates on the peasants and allow them to starve in the fields...

Tories won't do something like this, that would impact direct investments.
They aren't socialists (but they are cucks on other things)

COVID will impact the poor person, the person with no assets, who relies entirely off their paycheque to make ends meet. Just like in 08.

>>22016482
Would it apply if you are resident but then move to other country?

>>22016907

Basically, let's say you bought £1k of PNK, and then you sold it a few months later for £5k worth of BTC.

That's a realised gain of £4k (based on the GBP value at the time of the trade), and you'll be expected to pay 10%/20% capital gains tax on that gain, in GBP, even if you don't cash out a single penny of your crypto gains.

What fucks some people over is they can keep everything in crypto and never see one penny from it in their bank account, but still have HUGE tax bills.

Now the way it works is alongside realised gains, you also have realised losses, so you might make £4k on one trade, but lose £4k on another, so they cancel each other out. However, you have to realise the losses in the same tax year, as once a tax year is over, you can't make a loss and then apply it to a previous tax year to reduce the gains. You could make £1m in a tax year, then the next tax year you lose the entire £1m, and you still have to pay tax on that £1m of gains from the first tax year.

It gets more complex with things like purchase pools etc (UK uses a weird system) so I'd recommend using a crypto tax system and uploading all your trades where it'll automatically calculate what you owe.

>>22017024
ohhhh ok, I see now. I intend to hold so I think I am ok. thank you very much for explaining things for me, I do appreciate the response!

>>22016941
>>22017048
>>22017073
>HMRC taxes cryptoassets based on what the person holding it does. If the holder is conducting a trade then Income Tax will be applied to their trading profits.

>Only in exceptional circumstances would HMRC expect individuals to buy and sell cryptoassets with such frequency, level of organisation and sophistication that the activity amounts to a financial trade in itself. If it is considered to be trading then Income Tax will take priority over Capital Gains Tax and will apply to profits (or losses) as it would be considered as a business.

It’s quite clear that crypto to crypto trades are not taxed in the U.K. unless you’re trading as a profession/job. You only pay capital gains when you cash out.

>>22017048

Are you fucking stupid? THE UK TAXES ALL CRYPTO-TO-CRYPTO TRADES. This is so clearly obvious if you read the HMRC guidance. They have spelled it right out, and all crypto tax systems calculate it in this way.

Why do people like you make highly misleading comments when you have no idea what you're talking about?

>>22017107
>>22017066
>Why have they always got to fuck over the middle class like this

Read the protocols (both of learned elders of zion & of Toronto) you dimwits, it's explained why the middle class must disappear.

>>22016941
yeah i'm aware they tax on crypto-to-cryto trades. but the plain fact is, i'm not going to tell them what i made while i lived here. it's a chance i'm wiling to take. As far as i'm concerned, once im a non resident of the UK, I'm not going to pay any capital gains tax anymore. If hmrc wanna come after me for it, then so be it. Either way living in portugal will allow me to live a much cheaper life.

>>22017141

You're 100% wrong. They're talking about if you trade to the point where you seem to do it for a living, i.e. a job. Then you pay income tax on gains, like it's a job.

If you just trade for personal investments, you pay CGT on all crypto-to-crypto trades.

Jesus christ people, educate yourselves before you get fucked over by the tax man.

>>22017134
ohhh these replies I am getting are all insightful and much appreciated, thank you!. I am going to hold and not trade my pnk until I have enough to move to Portugal I think
the UK doesnt deserve any of our money/taxes!

>>22017177
Sauce

>>22017134
You pay £0 as you get a 12.5k allowance

>>22017213
I have to assume they are trolling at this point, nobody can be that dense.

Dont care not paying a penny

>>22017141

Straight from HMRC's website:

"What constitutes a ‘disposal’
Individuals need to calculate their gain or loss when they dispose of their cryptoassets to find out whether they need to pay Capital Gains Tax. A ‘disposal’ is a broad concept and includes:

selling cryptoassets for money
exchanging cryptoassets for a different type of cryptoasset
using cryptoassets to pay for goods or services
giving away cryptoassets to another person"

>>22017141
i dont think thats true desu. they have this term called "disposals" which may be subject to CGT.
>What constitutes a ‘disposal’
>Individuals need to calculate their gain or loss when they dispose of their cryptoassets to find out whether they need to pay Capital Gains Tax. A ‘disposal’ is a broad concept and includes:

>selling cryptoassets for money
>exchanging cryptoassets for a different type of cryptoasset
>using cryptoassets to pay for goods or services
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/tax-on-cryptoassets/cryptoassets-for-individuals
What it doesnt give is much more detail beyond that.

>>22017213
All trades of this type of based on Capital Gains tax for the person.

In the UK, if you hold investments as a main source of income, you're supposed to create a limited company under the "trading" regulations. You will receive a special tax rate with different tax rules.

You're fucking stupid. Don't educate people if you have no idea what you're talking about.

Individuals should seek their own independent tax advice, not from frogs on 4chan.

Really concerned because I traded a lot of shitcoins back in 2017/2018 and I'm not sure if I can get records for everything. After getting rekt by the crash I converted everything into Chainlink and left it. From end of 2018 onwards I've only bought Chainlink with fiat, so that's easier.

Worried about getting fucked on taxes, but if I can live off of staking/lending gains with Chainlink that's much easier.

>>22017141
Brainlet. You are literally on the page that tells you everything you need to know and you still get it wrong. Hint, that paragraph is about income tax.

>>22014362
>40% tax on crypto-crypto transactions
We don't get charged for those

If it goes to 40% to cash out though then what's the point of even being in crypto lol. No way in hell I am paying more than 20% and even that was making me consider cashing out via other means.

>>22017141
you are a fucking idiot with no reading comprehension and i'm glad that 3 posters beat me to correcting you

>>22017222

Remember that when you bought BTC/ETH, that was a taxable event, as was trading that BTC/ETH for PNK, assuming that's what you did.

>>22017225

If only that one trade existed and the person didn't have taxable gains from anywhere else (such as property) then yes you're right.

However, people need to be careful with this, as if you have big gains in one tax year, then big losses in the next tax year, you can owe a huge CGT bill despite actually having fuck all in your crypto portfolio.

In theory, it's very possible, if you do enough shitty trades, to owe hundreds of thousands of pounds in CGT when all your crypto has imploded and you own £0 worth.

>>22017289
How much did you get rekt by the crash? Chances are you have capital losses to offset your gains anyway.

>>22017358
>Remember that when you bought BTC/ETH, that was a taxable event, as was trading that BTC/ETH for PNK, assuming that's what you did.
OH FUCK HAHAHAHA
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA THE BAD NEWS LITERALLY NEVER ENDS HERE IN THE UK
yeah I used ETH to buy pnk FUCK

>>22017358
As if anyone who isn’t a complete cuck actually cares about this fucking Jewery
Kill yourself faggot

>>22017141

>>22017358
>>22017378
but i appreciate the heads up regardless. fuck, though FUCK

>>22017361
Worth in crypto assets went from approx £45k to £7k, aren't these losses only reportable for up to a year?
Plus my gains in Chainlink currently sit at £210k.

how do i get my money out of gibraltar if i take profits there? or should i just use my eu citizenship to go to portugal

So many idiots in this thread.
Even if they hike Capital gains rates, it will match your income tax bracket.

If you stay in the lower band when you cash out your 1 million crypto gains you will only pay 20% still.

However its political suicide for them to do this so i doubt they will

>>22017404
Sorry that was from all time high to after the crash, my initial investment was around £12k.

>>22017005
that's retarded math. you literally only pay 15% in capital gains tax in America. 15% is so fucking low.

>>22017384
pretty much this. theyre not getting tax on my crypto trades unless they bend me over the table

>>22016628
>ethnonats would probably tax the shit out of me too
But at least you'd be living in a goon environment and your money would be going to mostly good causes. Opposed to half of everything you fucking own going to niggers and benefit mums who're supporting kids to 6 blokes.

>>22017378

If you're only dealing in small amounts though, then there's a pretty good chance your CGT gains (even if they exist) are under the £12k allowance.

Remember also that it depends on the GBP value of the asset at the time, which is usually taken from the value of BTC/ETH. So if you traded ETH when it was $1000+, then traded it again when it had crashed down to $150, you'd actually have a huge tax loss that you could deduct from your gains in the same tax year.

>>22017361

Only if the gains and losses occurred in the same tax year. Timing is everything, and it's HUGELY recommended that if you have any unrealised losses (i.e. there's a loss you'd make if you traded the asset into other asset), then you do that before the tax year ends. That way, the tax bills much more closely match the value of your portfolio. Just remember bed and breakfasting rules etc.

>>22017404
Not 100%. Your best bet might be using Koinly to calculate it. Import everything you have from exchanges and other wallets and it'll work out how fucked or ok you are for you.

>>22014362
i feel sick

I've spent a long time researching this. I've got a multi-mil £ LINK stack, and a good accountant. I'm moving to the Isle of Man to cash out. Ill have to be a non-dom resident of the UK for 5 years, before I can come back without them chasing me for their theft. So cash out my 10 million cgt free in IoM, travel the world for 5 years, then come back if I want to

Also AMA. I understand all the CGT laws into the UK due to work. Its historically low at the moment, so very likely they will hike it up. Someone has to pay for all the free gibs that useless humans who got furloughed got.

>>22017441

CGT in the UK can be as low as 10% depending on your income level, otherwise it's 20%.

The US works out a bit better overall when it comes to tax, but not a huge amount, and you have fewer safety nets and can be made bankrupt if you get sick, even with health insurance.

It's amazing how burgers have been brainwashed into thinking that they're so much better off tax wise. It's really not that great, particularly when you realise what you lose out on.

>>22014362
Can they confiscate crypto wallets?

>>22017520
thanks again anon i am screencapping your replies to me for future reference. my bought eth when it was just under £300 for 1 so ill see how things go

I own 47kish link and are they fuck getting any of my money. Not a single bit.

>>22017649
I have a question
If i buy £5k of a crypto and then that appreciates 10x .then i take out my intial £5k do i owe tax. I understand crypto to crypto is taxable but if i take my initial out its fine right.

Alright, since cashing out and paying 40% isnt happening, what can other anons suggest?
Sell for a stablecoin and cash out the tax free amount each year?

>>22017757
>Sell for a stablecoin
taxable bro

>>22017713

My advice anon is to sign up for crypto tax software like Cointracker. Input all your trades (you can either use an API or manual import from all major exchanges) and it'll tell you exactly what you owe. It has the HMRC tax calculation method too, which is based on purchase pools and can get quite complex.

It'll also track your unrealised gains/losses, so in future you can trade smarter around the tax years.

Good luck.

>>22017661
nigger
0% cgt here
yes you will enjoy giving up half your linkies to the government and getting fat so you can pay 5 dollars for your NHS treatment while I stay /fit/ with 100% of my linkies and never go to the doctor

>>22017649

Interesting.
Im planning on moving to Japan soon but living off link gains.
Would it be simple as moving to Isle of man first, then doing whatever in Japan with visas etc for 5 years yeara and then not having yo pay CPT?

Would i need to open a bank on Isle of Man to deposits the crypto gains or is UK high street bank still ok so long as im an Isle of man Reaident?

>>22017661

Honestly if you had a 5 million crypto gain what stops you quitting work, going into lowest tax bracket and cashing out at the 10% capital gains bracket? Is this even possible?

>>22017820
>Cointracker
I didn't know about that, but it's bookmarked now. Thank you! Good luck to you too!

>>22017866
You would never get to spend the money. The tax break is so small you would die with millions

>>22017866
they would still rape him and give it to pajeet's family

>>22017752
you can take out upto £12300 tax free per tax year

>>22017805
So how do you avoid outright theft from big brother?

>>22017661
Its not lower due to income level, you just add you tax free allowance from income to your CGT allowance IIRC. Its still 20% If its a million, or 100k

>>22017916
Right but isnt that 12300 in profits if im taking my initial out that doesnt count right?

>>22017942
start a religion or an airline company or something i guess

>>22017942
You don't if you stay in the UK. You pay what you 'owe'.

>>22017134
>Now the way it works is alongside realised gains, you also have realised losses
but what kind of trades are we talking about exactly?
i've traded on so many janky exchanges the only exchanges i remember are the ones i have authenticator keys for.
i'm going to assume HMRC only look at coinbase type setups, correct?

>>22017752
Yes, you would owe 20% of the gain (45k), which is 4500. But as other anon stated, its in your CGT allowance, so you don't have to file for it, or pay it. Only if your tax on gains is over 12k in a tax year. You can also 'gift' some to a partner, family member etc, if they aren't going to use their allowance either.

>>22017649
Any advice for moving to the isle of man?
I am in a similar situation to you, but have only looked into it briefly. Also is there any chance we could exchange throwaway emails?

>>22017833
Google KPMG Isle of man cgt free. Whole guide by that company online. Basically you need to be a Isle of man resident, usually by buying property there, or filing taxes there. Technically once you apply as a resident there and tell them you intend to stay, you're a resident. If you spend more than 30 days in the UK, per year, anytime in the next 5 years, you'll have to pay your realised gains. After 5 tax years, you won't. But if we are talking about say, 2 million in tax, see if as a salary of 500k/year to travel, buy property, and enjoy.

>>22018046
i will flood your inbox if you post a throwaway email here

>>22015018
kill yourself pajeet

>>22018046
Google KPMG Isle of man CGT free. Thats the best guide from a reputable source I've found. They offer a tax service to help people going down this route too. Its not like Jersey where everything is mega expensive either.

>>22018032
So what if i just hodl it and dont trade it at all i dont pay tax then?

>>22018006
>>22018008
>really do need 1k eoy to make it now

>>22018004
not sure what your question is... if you invest £5k, make a 10x (£50k), you don't pay tax on £17300 i.e your initial investment + tax free allowance. Your initial investment is deductible as a an expense.

>>22018098
thanks anon, will do

>>22018135
Correct. Only when it is realised as a gain (i.e, hitting your bank account in sterling). You could also convert it to usdt, btc, eth etc and stake it over at blockfi, Celsius etc and just pay CGT on the money you withdraw. But it might go up to 40% in the future

Fuck em. If they call me out I’ll send my exchange history and Bank statements and they can figure out how much I owe.

Can’t be fucked figuring out what I owe from trading shitcoin for shitcoin for shitcoin before eventually going all in on link.

HMRC wagie can spend all day figurIng that shit out.

>>22018152
Pretty much, I worked out that if I cash out this year, I would owe around £57k. Made me want to vomit :/

>>22014362
Man, and I thought being a burger sucked with taxes. Possibly up to 40% phew there is just no escape. I hope for society to collapse more than to make it these days.

>>22017621
But you cant cash out before 5 years have passed no? So you need to have 5 years worth of travelling saved up beforehand for that plan to be a good one

>>22018175
I mean i take out just my intial 5k pound that i invested in a crypto and the remaining 45k i just leave and hodl. Would there be tax on my intial.

>>22014362
>when you want to cash out, double your money first instead
problem solved

>>22018199
You have to pay income tax and national insurance based on hmrc guidance if you stake. Are you sure you have a good accountant?

>>22018298
£12k p/y tax allowance. If he needs to cash out a little more then he won’t need to pay much in tax.

>>22017649

Say you moved to the Isle of Man AFTER you sell but don't cash out a penny. what happens then?

>>22016144
Best thing is they take all this money not for anything useful, no instead to fill the bags of kikes, do gender and climate change studies, support your local fag community and get more shitskins in, who live the comfy life, not paying any tax, and rape your women in their infinite tax-payed spare time. Isn't it a great timeline?

>>22018355
If you only did one transaction and not disposed it to other crypto at any point then you are OK. If you did any disposals and repurchases then you have to pool like you do for shares.>>22018360

>>22018400
The moment you sell within the 5 years following tax citizenship, it is taxable. Whether you go to Isle of man or the moon. You'll have to not dispose till the 5 years pass

>>22017621
What do you think the chances are hmrc would chase me if I cash out after 1 year of being a resident abroad (i.e. once I’m no longer considered a U.K. tax resident)? Is cashing out before I have a the 5 year permanent residency abroad risky?

>>22018484
Depends which country. Most banks across the world will ask for your citizenship and once you say you're British theres a good chance you'll get done for. I am currently studying Swiss Bank options to see if there can be a loophole there. Hmrc investigates so many people even after 5 years or so, they prefer these ones coz they get penalty and annual interest for each year owed off them

>>22015834
That’s bull shit fud
If you become a resident and either split the tax year or cash out after April 5th you are fine.
Just make sure to sort out your P85 and use an accountant in the U.K. and Portugal. Make sure you are registered as a tax payer. Also look into NHR scheme which is 0% tax on foreign income. You’re welcome.

>>22014362
Fuck me up

>>22014362
Ignore all the cucks in this thread talking about paying CGT like a good little tax slave. I have made a million pounds from crypto and have not paid a single penny.

There are many options available for you to not have pay for Abduls 5th child and keep your own property

>crypto gambling website bet structuring
>buying precious metals directly with crypto
Getting family members to cash in for you
>buying stuff with crypto directly
>buying stablecoins on non kyc or offshore exchanges
>using DEXs
>cashing out in tax havens
>using spreadbet accounts to hedge and take profits tax free

Also, we are heading into hyperinflation so there really is no rush to swap your crypto for soon to be worthless GBP. keep it in crypto for the next few years and you will be laughing

>>22018566
So if I move to Portugal for a year, then cash out my crypto, hmrc would start chasing me for all the crypto to crypto trades I made while in the U.K.? Even tho CGT isn’t paid anymore after 1 year abroad? I know they class each trade as a taxable event but it just seems ridiculous

>>22018733
You might have made a million pounds, but how much have you spent?
HMRC WILL catch up with you and they WILL stretch your asshole.
Imagine thinking tax authorities, a government's main source of income, leave massive loopholes that even a brainlet like you can get through.

Also who are some good crypto accoutants

>>22018032
If I make a gain of £5k do I have to REPORT it under self assessment

So total investment is about£20k OVER 3 YEARS

Current portfolio value is £170k (I know I fucked up)

I traded alot initially and lost money and then just holding Link for the last year or so and BSV. What are my options?

>>22017901

Why?
Income tax is not the same as cpt tax.
Technically you could cash out all 5 million in a single event and only pay the 10% right?

Same as paying standard 20% atm

>>21111111

>>22018899
Yes they will. And they will make sure to make you pay compounded interest over the term you have been "evading". If you are thinking of eventually declaring your income or live in the uk in the long term, sort that out ASAP. They go back 10-20 years back no problem if they think you have played them.

>>22018733
>buying precious metals directly with crypto
Show me a link to website that allows this
>Getting family members to cash in for you
How do I transfer the asset to them?
>>buying stuff with crypto directly
Where? Show me a good site
>>using DEXs
How the fuck is a DEX going to help if I want to cash out in £

>>22019012
Where did you get the 10% from? For income tax It is 0 up to 12500 then time jumps to 20% which is the lowest bracket. Once you go above 50k or so it will become 40% and then 45% above 155k or so. You will also need to pay national insurance.

>>22019012
Because the basic rate for CGT is 10%, this threshold is WELL below 5 million. You could totally pay the 20% on the 5mill, and you would be fine.

this might help, it isn't all the information but it displays what I'm saying.

>>22019204
Yeah sorry thought you were talking about income tax. You will have to pay 20% on the said 5m given that you declared all your crypto to crypto disposals historically.

Also the thread is discussing that 20% jumping to a possible 40 & 45% soon which is ridiculously

So if i am liable for tax this year 2020-2021 do i have to fill in my taxes by Jan 2022.

Fucking shithole UK with shit Prime Minister. If fucking Boris had taken corona seriously and shutdown the place and forced people to wear masks fucking ages ago, a lot of deaths would have been have been prevented. Guy is a fucking clown and is still making fuck ups on handling the situation. Get fucked.

>>22014362
Yeah, been expecting this

what the FUCK

FUCK THIS STUPID KEKED FUCKING COUNTRY

FUCK THIHS UFK CTHIS

>>22019442
Honestly we could of prevented lots of deaths by placing snipers on city roof tops and just popping everyone who leaves their house.

I am in full agreement with you what the UK needs to to is become even more of an over bearing nanny state.

People like you are why the UK caters to single mothers.

>>22019124
If the total of your income + capital gains is under 50k or something like that I forget what, cgt is 10%, if it's over 20%
Well, that used to be the case, but fuck everything going to 40%

>>22019442
corona is a fucking meme m8 if you think this economic crash is because of a phantom flu youre severely bluepilled

>>22019442
the cherry on top of all this mess is now him and the government are telling us all to get back to work and stop working from home or else lmao

>>22018899
They're not loopholes they are legal. Imagine being such a cuck and scared of big daddy government that you don't dare to spend your own money. Our government has completely lost control - HMRC won't do shit. Do you think Muhammad is scared of the government when he's raping pre teen girls or plotting his terrorist attacks?

>>22019339
This always happens with these threads, they get derailed into, how do I pay taxes and stuff.

I really can't see this happening, it would fuck so many people that the gov want to keep here. Don't you think it would be lobbied against straight away? I do expect an increase in CGT tax %age, but nowhere near the income brackets.

>>22019056
>>>22018733 (You)
>>buying precious metals directly with crypto
>Show me a link to website that allows this
Goldsilver.com, there are many others also
>>Getting family members to cash in for you
>How do I transfer the asset to them?
Transfer it from your ledger or wash it through monero if you're worried
>>>buying stuff with crypto directly
>Where? Show me a good site
Literally hundreds just Google
>>>using DEXs
>How the fuck is a DEX going to help if I want to cash out in £
You cash out into a less volatile ERC20 etc or go short to create a hedge

You guys are all retards. Just open up a company on Caymans, Bahamas or any other tax exempt country. Make it a fund. Let the "fund" trade on your behalf and pay the dividends out to you. Yes, it's really that simple. You only need to pay some amount of money in advance to open up the company.

>>22019571
there are definitely a few ultracucky posters on these uk tax threads that you can tell were teachers' pets in school, just absolutely dying to be on the good side of big brother. they act like hmrc are a highly robust, impermeable professional outfit rather than a bunch of 100 IQ wagies who cant be outmanoeuvred.

>>22014362
Gibraltar is a British Overseas Territory. As a UK citizen you can go there no problem with your UK passport. Rent a room, and declare yourself resident. Pay a lawyer to make sure this is all above board. They're crypto savvy in Gibraltar, the lawyers and presumably accountants, as it's a tax haven.
You're free to go back and forward to the UK as often as you wish, but your main residence, for tax purposes, will be in Gibraltar.
Gibraltar has zero % capital gains on crypto and staking rewards from crypto.
It's a complete no brainer and I'm going to be doing it. Not only that, but you can fly from Gatwick for about 50 quid on sleazyjet.
It also means you have somewhere warm in the Winter to go, and Spain is on your doorstep.
See you there, UK fags.
Peace.

>>22019681
I agree with your sentiment; wtf do u mean by cant be outmanoeuvred?

>>22019695
>but every crypto to crypto trade you ever made in the UK is a taxable event

>>22019753
i meant to say *can* be outmanoeuvred.
these good goys act like its impossible to outwit them

>>22019804
Ahh gotcha.

Yeah thats true until you make too much and they put 138 iq super virgin on your case and sniff out your $truffles with their jew pigdogs.

>>22014415
The banksters don't pay taxes so why would they give a fuck what the taxes for the slaves are?

>Leave gains in crypto as BTC
>Apply for Coinbase credit card
>Buy things using that and never realise your gains as FIAT
>HMRC have nothing to tax
Would this work?

>>22019778
It’s not though. HMRC don’t tecognise crypto as a taxable asset until you cash out.

>>22020005
you obv havent read through this thread. i dont like it, but they do treat crypto to crypto as taxable
>What constitutes a ‘disposal’
>Individuals need to calculate their gain or loss when they dispose of their cryptoassets to find out whether they need to pay Capital Gains Tax. A ‘disposal’ is a broad concept and includes:

>selling cryptoassets for money
>exchanging cryptoassets for a different type of cryptoasset
>using cryptoassets to pay for goods or services

>>22020005
Just fuck off. I hope you get raped by by the government because of your own ignorance. How many times does this need debunking before your brainlets get it. Hell it's been debunked several times I this very thread.

>>22017134
>Basically, let's say you bought £1k of PNK, and then you sold it a few months later for £5k worth of BTC.
>That's a realised gain of £4k (based on the GBP value at the time of the trade), and you'll be expected to pay 10%/20% capital gains tax on that gain, in GBP, even if you don't cash out a single penny of your crypto gains.

okay so what happens when you convert that ETH to GBP in coinbase for example and then withdraw that you to your bank? You pay 20% on that AS WELL?

>>22020215
No, unless the value of the BTC or ETH also went up in that time, in which case you'd pay 20% of that profit (or if it went down you'd have a capital loss to offset your gains). If you cash out to BTC and then cash out straight to cash chances or this will be very little anyway.

>>22017900
Oh my god please go the fuck back you insufferable faggot

>>22014362
tfw moving to zero capital gains tax state and Trump might cut capital gains tax if re-elected. Sucks to be a Bong!

>>22020303
go back where?

>>22017441
the US is 20% at higher capital gains. The thing is, you usually have to add on state-level income and capital gains taxes and then add on the 3.8% Obamacare tax if over $200k iirc

>>22014403
yeah its fucking dire mate

>>22019975
Yep. Or buy a swipe (SXP) card

>>22020391
Reddit. If you must stay ditch the cringe onions mannerisms.

cant you just hold for a year and then it's tax free?

>>22020504
ive never been involved with reddit, i hate it. also ive been on /b/ since 2006

I don't get it to be desu. all of my buys are traceable and it would take an afternoon to account for all my trades but i'm worried about the shit i'm hearing in regard to the expat shit. I'm fully prepared to relocate to Switzerland if it means I can get away with not paying tax but the shit I'm hearing makes it sound as if I still would get brutally fucked by HMRC.

I don't give a shit, I want out of this country anyway. Please tell me I can retire in Switzerland?

>>22020574
Cool you’re literally just an organic faggot then good to know

Independent Tax-Heaven Wales when

>>22020599
im in the same boat as you. yes they do treat crypto to crypto trade as a taxable event here, but after 1 year of not living here youre no longer considered a tax resident and no longer eligible to pay CGT tax. I will chance it, move away for 1 year (at least) and cash out. if they come after me because of my shitcoin trades over 1+ year ago then so be it.

>>22020608
i am transgender, mtf. not a faggot

>>22020691
>no longer eligible to pay CGT tax.
but how will you fund yourself? just incrementally cash out and hope you don't go over personal allowance?

I'm not thinking about this shit yet because I haven't made enough but I hope it's easy to set up a swiss bank account

>>22020691
Out of interest, where exactly does the 1 year come from? As far I can work out it's every tax year, you could literally move to (tax haven if choice) today and even this tax year would be domiciled else where because you'd be out of the country for more than 6 months of the financial year. Am I missing something?

>>22014362
This thread is a great example at showing how few people on /biz/ even do 5min of research

>That would involve people who own second homes and buy-to-let properties paying capital gains tax at 40 per cent or 45 per cent as opposed to the current 28 per cent when they sell the properties.

The CGT increase is literally just for those who sell multiple properties and Buy-to-let cucks. No mention of crypto at all

>>22014362

hahahaha
brits live already in dystopia but think the EU is the only evil.

>>22020764
>but how will you fund yourself? just incrementally cash out and hope you don't go over personal allowance?
pretty much, rent a place for a year and try not to go over my £12k limit. If i do go over it, it will not be by much so there will be little tax to pay. im not thinking switzerland btw, im thinking portugal because the cost of living is so much cheaper there, even if you do eventually get screwed by hmrc because of your uniswap shitcoin trading then i'd still be able to buy a property/pay for every day living for much cheaper than in the UK

>>22020843
Portugal is a shithole though. Switzerland is beautiful.

I just hope I can somehow find work, pretty sure everyone speaks English in Switzerland anyway

>>22020822
The Independent article linked by OP doesn't mention property. The daily mail article does, so hoping the increase will just apply to those. However, CGT is currently low historically so wouldn't be surprised if we get fucked, even if not quite as badly as the thread suggests.

>>22020843
Just flip some burgers for a year in Portugal you workshy fuck.

>>22020879
portugal is not a shit hole, its really nice in parts.

>>22016719

>>22020794
you need to spend no more than 15 days in the UK per tax year to be considered a non resident

>>22021065
That's to be automatically considered a non-resident. Your automatically considered a resident if you spent more than 6 months. If you leave now you'd be somewhere in between and other factors will be taken into account, pretty sure if you've got a residency permit somewhere else, renting and spent more than 6 months in the year there you will likely be considered a non-resident.

HMRC are deeply incompetent, they're much easier to dodge than the IRS with even the most basic of tricks

>>22021166
Yes I know, but you’re eligible to pay tax until you’re no longer considered a resident. That takes a year.

Move to greece. Nice weather, 0% capital gains tax, cheap hookers, 1000 euros per month in expenses and ur good

>>22021175
>with even the most basic of tricks
Such as

Canada’s is 50%

>>22021267

maybe you can even watch them fight the filthy turks.

>>22021290

crypto taxes in germany are great: none if you hold for 1 year.

Btw ive never bought crypto cuz im not a retard but isnt the whole point that its anonymous. How would the irs know u have gains. Just make a foreign bank account and ur good

I'm a British citizen and have lived here all my life, but I'm half Norwegian and have a Norwegian passport, does this make me eligible to withdraw to Norwegian cap. gains rates if I move over there? 45% is fucking shameful

>>22021359
WTF are you doing here?

I've turned £30k into £350k this year with crypto

Stay poor faggot

>>22021568
how many?

>>22019778
That is true, but I don't trade much. I'm more of an investor. I'm, long on Link, and when I do make a move, Link will have gone up a lot, and the huge CG charge Boris would hit me with will be reduced to zero as I'll be resident in Gibraltar, and hopefully staking by then too

Netherlands is from 0.6% up to 1.6% depending on amount

>>22021672
*first 30k is 0%

>>22021640
How many what?

>>22021740
knobs you noshed on?

>>22017386
>anon, our blockchain analysis concludes that all these transactions and withdrawals tie back to you.

>no sir, i gifted away the tokens to my civil partner at the time
>no sir, i lost my private keys in a boating accident
>no sir, i transferred my coins to a thai exchange that collapsed and can't retrieve anything

>oh sorry for your losses, anon. no taxes then of course.

>>22017386
>anon, our blockchain analysis concludes that all these transactions and withdrawals tie back to you.

>no sir, i gifted away the tokens to my civil partner at the time
>no sir, i lost my private keys in a boating accident
>no sir, i transferred my coins to a thai exchange that collapsed and can't retrieve anything
>no sir, someone broke into my computer, hacked my wallet and left me with no coins

>oh sorry for your losses, anon. no taxes then of course.

>>22021672
but you pay them every year, not just on cashing out. even if you just bought bitcoins in 2009 and did absolutely nothing with them, you need to sell 1.61% every year and pay up to daddy state you flamboyant cuck

>>22021933

haha wtf are you serious?
come over to germany swamp bros

>>22021933
based retard

>>22021962
He is full of shit.

You pay on cashing out

>>22021283
Literally what this
>>22021868
guy said.

Every faucet of the British civil service is awful and HMRC is no exception. They barely understand cryptocurrency and would struggle to bring any case against you.

>>22021975
>>22022003
it's wealth tax, not capital gains tax retard you cocksucking retard
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_in_the_Netherlands#Wealth_tax

>>22014362
uh, who is going to pay for all of the welfare leeches bro?

The governments only responsibly is to steal as much of your stuff as possible without you revolting

>>22017422
>>22017866
The 10% rate will only be applied on your remaining tax bracket up to the higher rate. For example, say you earn £40,000 and you make a crypto gain of £5,000,000 after your £12,300 allowance. £10,000 of your gain will be taxed at 10%. The remaining £4,990,000 is taxed at 20%. If these changes come in, it will be £10,000 at 20% and the rest at 40% or 45% instead.

>>22022032
>wikipedia
https://www.belastingdienst.nl/wps/wcm/connect/nl/werk-en-inkomen/content/cryptovaluta
official tax website
now kys cunt

>>22022032

You can trade all the fuck you want without getting raped though

For the fast majority here it's 0% tax because everyone is a poorfag

>>22022069
In summary, you're thinking they will let you get away with only paying 10% on all your gains if your salary is just £1 away from the higher rate tax bracket? Sorry, it doesn't work like that.

>>22022023
If I CASH OUT £100k into £

What do I tell HMRC

Not BS like I lost my keys or wallet or exchange got hacked.

>>22022069
THIS IS CORRECT and how it's supposed to work.

>>22022132
>no bs like lost my kets or wallet
ofc not, if you just sold.
in this case you found a hardware wallet lying on the street.

>>22022158
what's more miraculous that it was the same wallet you lost 5 years ago

>>22014362

Britbongs in fierce competition with burgers to see how much cucking a population can take before they revolt

>>22021667
>and the huge CG charge Boris would hit me with will be reduced to zero as I'll be resident in Gibraltar,
anons here will argue that youre obliged to pay the gains you made on link while you were living in the uk tho. even after becoming a resident of gib.

>>22020712
You are an autogynephile and you will never be a real woman. I hope you get your genitals mutilated and then kys

>>22022200
>brits
>revolt
kek
>muh stiff upper lip

>>22020712
Post mutilated penis.

>move from uk to leafland
>just as cucked but better weather far more opportunities and infinite space
>never cash out
>view the present as a transitionary period
>sit in stablecoins when not trading
>use crypto card to pay for irl things
>rent a place and pay direct to their bank account via exchange deposit
>will wait til crypto is mainstream
>will do an under the table deal for a big plot of land away from the city
>will laugh every morning watching bbc news as a dystopia esque lifestyle encompasses the uk
>I told them to come with me
>I told them to buy crypto for 4 years
>I bought some of them crypto
>theywontmakeit.png
>you can lead horse to water but you cant make them drink

>>22021672
Is this true?
If i cash out $1m in Holland i'll only get charged 1.61%?
The Netherlands is one of the only other European countries that has any appeal desu, because of the Deagel predictions

>>22022260
im not attracted to myself you idiot

>>22022194
>>22022158
You must be the dumbest donkey here.
Bro I would be taxed the full amount of £100k, if I do what you suggested.

If I TELL HMRC I bought Crypto for £10k which is now worth £100k

They will let me deduct my purchase price. So now it's £90k which I pay tax on.

Are people this stupid? It's written You're Allowed to deduct purchase piece.

>>22022261
its a dead country, at this point for me its just a case of which country i move to not should i move

>>22022310

>>22021933
>>22022032

>>22022322
>>>22022310
>Lie and say I found a wallet
>Police investigation potential
>Pay FULL tax on the whole amount

Or tell HMRC and stop being a cuck
>Pay less tax.
I need £ desperately so I can stop being a wagie :(

>>22022370
Why did you not respond to >>22022120 ?
1.61% per year doesnt sound too bad

>>22022380
desu if you're csahing out you're best off leaving to another country for a year the uk has agreements to avoid double taxation with, and cash out / reacquire your crypto there.

>>22022227
so wait. if you buy bitcoins in 2010, move to malta in 2021, sell your coins with 0% tax, the hmrc will want you to pay up your taxes even though you weren't a resident of the uk when you actually made your gains? i thought only burgers were that cucked

>>22022476
what is there to respond? 1.68% of all wealth you have even if you did nothing with it is a lot imo. think about it, if satoshi lived in the netherlands he'd have sell thousands of btc every year 'long as he's alive

>>22022120
are you arguing that cryptocurrencies are not considered part of assets liable to wealth tax?

>>22022481
the argument is that you didnt make your gains in malta though. you made them in the uk. that you actually realised your gains before cashing out. so the uk will count them as realised gains you made as a tax resident of the uk.

Reading this thread has left me feeling nervous haha fuck me, just gonna get on coin tracker then maybe see about a cheap tax-haven residency so at least in 5 years time I wont get cucked by taxes

>>22022596
ok so, you move out 2021 january 1 to malta (tax year in malta is jan 1 to dec31, in uk it's apr 6 to apr 5). sell your coins in 2021 december. the hmrc will contact you to pay taxes based on your bitcoins' value on 2021 apr 5.? how does this work? any precedent (with other kind of assets)?

20% isn't bad to be honest.

>>22022644
Fuck coin tracker its likely some backdoor gov monitored shite. Cross the cashing out bridge when you make it. Focus on making if now, use your time not to research bullshit tax laws and workarounds. Make wealth and let the accountant figure it out if you still want to be a good goy.

>>22022644
useful reading though. these threads pop up every so often and we establish more understanding and help each other find the best ways of avoiding (even for the cucks here who don't wanna piss big brother off, tax *avoidance* is legal) tax going forward.

>>22022760
not to mention, what if you move to a country that has taxes on crypto. say you move to france for completely independent reason. sell your bitcoins at some point when you're a french resident. the frogs will obviously wants their capital gains taxes. the hmrc will come and double tax you, based on your bitcoins' value when you left the country?

>>22022760
no they'll want tax for the gains you made during all the years you lived in the uk after you bought btc,

>>22022227
checked, and if I haven't moved the link until I go to Gibraltar, no tax event has occurred. I have looked into this, and an event is crypto-fiat, and crypto-crypto.
Nowhere in any of the government guidelines on this have I seen any mention of being liable to pay tax on a dormant asset. I think some anons make stuff up as they go along.

>>22022828
theyll simply want the taxes from the gains you made when you lived in the country

Think about it. It's called 'Capital Gains Tax'. If I haven't moved it, I haven't made any capital gain.

I don't get you guys, what the fuck is wrong with paying 20%

>>22022875
But you bought your link in the UK, and every year it made gains. the argument is that you owe CGT on those gains for every year you lived here.

>>22022871
ok, so what if i write a contract with a person while being a maltese tax resident that makes them the owner of the bitcoins that were formally mine, without them paying me any $. say, find a way where a transaction like this is legal under maltese tax regulation. sad person gives me back the coins via another contract. the coins are have now are not the same coins i had while i was a uk resident. i acquired them in 2021. now i sell these feshly acquired coins. can the hmrc still do something?

>>22022957
Nothing but it would sting if rates increased to income tax rates which for me would be 45%

>>22022971
im not a lawyer bro i cant give you answers to these obtuse scenarios

>>22022996
it won't happen, stop falling for clickbait

>>22016493
Everything should be 30.
30% income, 30% capital gains, 30% VAT
The gap should just be filled by the state spending less.

>>22014453
Nobody would implement this. It's retarded

>>22015954
>what's that you're successful owo
>taxes 40% of your income
>gives it to immigrants as a 10k/month check
>immigrant rapes your 12 year old sister/daughter/niece/cousin
>uk pardons them
>their 2 days spent in jail needs to be paid for by taxes

>>22022871
>>22022917
This isn't true in the slightest. You only pay on what you have declared as profit when you WITHDRAW, doesn't matter how much money you 'made' if it never came out while residing in the UK.

>>22022917
it's still so unprovable though. find an exchange that died/became unaccessible the year you moved residency. say you acquired your coins there. i'm sure that retrospectively, you can find a series of transactions that'd have turned 1 BTC into 1,000 BTC any month (like madoff did). no way they can prove that you had that 1,000 BTC while you were their tax resident.

>>22023060
true these headlines come out every so often to stir people up

>>22018046
>Any advice for moving to the isle of man?

nomadcapitalist.com

>>22022481
>>22022481
Bro I can't just move countries.
Basically I'm a poor fag. It's £150kish.
I still need to wage slave.
My idea is here HMRC I made 150k less 10k purchase price , less 12.5k allowance.
Tax me at 127.5k @20%. I pay and they leave me alone and I carry on wageslavin. I use the final, for a deposit for a house.

>>22023214
Not true. Read through the thread. They regard crypto to crypto trading as taxable events.

>>22022932
>tries to argue syntax and therefore legal definition with HMRC

>>22023087
What a retarded and basic view on existence you have. Do you struggle with having to work out your progressive tax band? Or, more likely, are you stuck in your basic bitch tax allowance?

>>22023389
crypto -> crypto taxable doesn't mean you've realised any gains on btc you bought in 2010 that you did NOTHING with until switching countries. holy shit you're dense

>>22023557
>HMRC would expect that buying and selling of cryptoassets by an individual will normally amount to investment activity (rather than a trade of dealing in cryptoassets). In such cases, if an individual invests in cryptoassets they will typically have to pay Capital Gains Tax on any gains they realise.

>Cryptoassets are digital and therefore intangible, but count as a ‘chargeable asset’ for Capital Gains Tax if they’re both:
>capable of being owned
>have a value that can be realised


>HMRC considers that throughout the time an individual is UK resident, the exchange tokens they hold as beneficial owner will be located in the UK.

>HMRC has considered other possibilities, but at this stage in the development of these tokens has found that a residence basis most accurately fits the majority of transactions.

>This means a person who holds exchanges tokens is liable to pay UK tax if they are a UK resident and carry out a transaction with their tokens which is subject to UK tax.

>>22023557
Note:
>Cryptoassets are digital and therefore intangible, but count as a ‘chargeable asset’ for Capital Gains Tax if they’re both:
>capable of being owned
>have a value that can be realised
The BTC you bought in 2010 was both capable of being owned and had a value that could be realised.

>>22019681
>they act like hmrc are a highly robust, impermeable professional outfit rather than a bunch of 100 IQ wagies who cant be outmanoeuvred.

they barely have the numbers to even do their job properly desu. they rarely go after people that offshore i.e. rich people. if you're a white working class plumber that does cash in hand jobs they'll come after you though.

>>22023578
>>22023632
>>This means a person who holds exchanges tokens is liable to pay UK tax if they are a UK resident and carry out a transaction with their tokens which is subject to UK tax.

>IF they are a UK resident AND CARRY OUT A TRANSCATION with their tokens which is subject to UK tax.