/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>21843623
This provides an excellent explanation.
https://www.bitchute.com/video/VmY0wPWJNaF5/

>>21843623
The transaction will fail if you don’t at least break even. Nobody on /biz/ will teach you how to do this. Nobody here is your friend, they shill you “gems” to steal your money or pump their bags, they aren’t actually giving you good advice in a zero sum game.

Where did you find this

>>21843711
checked and based, thanks anon

>>21843787
Based and true. Ppl gotta put in the work alone mostly

There's maybe 2000 people in the entire world who know how to do this, and that even seems high. None of them are on this mongolian basket weaving forum.

>>21843787
My mind literally exploded when I found out people were doing this. I dont get why this is not the only thing /biz/ talks about. How are these people calculating the profits? Do they know the transaction will be profitable allowing the contract to complete before the flash loan is taken? This is honestly the biggest holy shit moment Ive ever had.

>>21843623
he risked 2 million to make $1000. holy shit amazing

you have to be smart and technical. something you'll never be if "your mind is blown by this"
how did you not know about flashloans? it is old news
fucking retard
sage

>>21843623
Wait...wut? Some explan plz

>>21843948
Its incredibly based. I cant believe ive been on /pol/ all these years when people are pulling money from thin air.

>>21843948
Doofus there's no collateral on flash loans

Is this nothing besides going between exchanges via currency-tethered coins/tokens (of which there are increasingly too many) and finding a dumb margin? Surely this can't go right forever.

>>21843953
I know. Ive been on /pol/ all this time and decided to visit /biz/ and this is what I find.

>>21843995
Basically, and I'm not autistic enoguh to get it all, but essentially some people are taking flash loans in order to exploit weaknesses in smart contracts, and then stealing all the profit. Smart loans have no collateral or capital risked, because they can roll everything back as if nothing happened if the original principal isn't returned by the end of the block of code.

So basically:

"Here's $500k to swap between whatever exchanges you want, but if value of tokens is not $500k by the time I'm done writing this sentence then roll everything back as though it never happened on all liquidity pools/contracts."

>>21843623
What am I looking at

>>21843995
He took out a flash loan on dydx and used the usdc to buy dai then swapped the dai back to usdc and paid back the flash loan pocketing the difference. He made over 16000 dollars with a tiny eth gas fee.

>>21844104
Whatttt no way? Wtf literally no risk?

>>21844104
So you sign up and just take out a loan without having to deposit anything?

>>21844168
Just work, no risk on flash loans. But you’re not just gonna be able to figure it out. If you could, they wouldn’t be profitable anymore

isn't this just arbitrage?

>>21844168
Theres the gas fees you have to pay moving the loan on exchanges so if the contract fails he still has to pay like 400$ in eth so there is risk. Im just wondering how much risk, like did he calculate his profit before the flash loan? Or is it just gambling?

Its probably like 10eth in fees.
Learning solidity just to do this.

Usually they clone the network then bruteforce the contracts to see how they can break it/make money

>>21844221
Technically yes

>>21844153
Link us fucking retard noob

>>21844231
Probaly gambling, since prices adjust realtime

>>21844221
Yeah, in the sense that like any trading is arbitrage. But it's really fancy arbitrage with one big difference... zero capital risk,

>>21844235
Nope. https://etherscan.io/tx/0xf7498a2546c3d70f49d83a2a5476fd9dcb6518100b2a731294d0d7b9f79f754a

>>21844153
>tiny
Probably more than 1 ETH

>>21844296
Fuck me, im going to try this tonight

you have to return it in the same transaction, so if you take out flash loan for arbitrage then you can pocket difference.

>>21844257
https://etherscan.io/tx/0xf7498a2546c3d70f49d83a2a5476fd9dcb6518100b2a731294d0d7b9f79f754a

Ok guys, I'm reading into this and this is actually extremely bullish for Chainlink.

Here's from an article I'm reading:

Adam: So what happened?

John: Step one: I get a flash loan in a cryptocurrency called ether and use some of it to buy a lot of dollar-pegged stablecoin that should be worth one dollar each.

Adam: Right. And a dollar-pegged stablecoin is a type of cryptocurrency that’s supposed to be equal to, or be pegged to, the value of a dollar. So in theory it should always be worth a dollar.

John: That’s right, but Step two: I know that the lender gets pricing data from only one source. That source was called Kyber, but let’s call him Bob. Bob’s just one guy, and I use some of the crypto I borrowed with the flash loan, some ether, to buy a huge amount of his tokens that are supposed to be worth a dollar, but because i’m being clever, I’m willing to pay a lot more than a dollar if it makes my lender think that the price of dollar-pegged stablecoins are now worth two dollars each.

Adam: OK.

John: Step three: I take the stablecoins that should be worth a dollar, but which look like they’re worth two dollars now because I’ve been pushing up Bob’s price, to take another flash loan where the lender thinks he’s being paid back in full, but is actually accepting just half of what I owe him since he thinks the money I’m paying him with, the not-so-stable-coin, is only temporarily worth $2.

Adam: So by pushing up the price of the stablecoin temporarily to double its value and then paying back the loan with it, you only need to pay back half of what you owe

John: That’s right, and all of this happens basically instantly. While that’s not the whole story, I think at this point you can see how this attack not only worked but was pretty wildly profitable for whoever pulled it off.

>the lender gets pricing data from only one source
the lender gets pricing data from only one source
>the lender gets pricing data from only one source

>>21844349
Holy shit. So they pump the price on the exchange where the lender gets the source and dump the loan back onto the lender? Whos getting fucked here? The exchange?

>>21844349
Holy shieeet.
You are absolutely right.
All exchanges will have to use link to prevent price disparities.

>>21844447
I think it depends on the nature of the attack, since it can involve multiple arbitrages and transfers.

This could be exploited simply for wash trading, for example pumping 24 hr volume from $1MM to $50MM (example)

But the way I understand it, for the arbitrage example whoever has liquidity on the exchange would take the bullet. I am still piecing it all together. But it's not possible for the exchange to really take a direct hit since DEXs don't have reserve or whatever. So I'm assuming it's the liqudiity providers, but still working that part out.

>>21844521
I thought I was ngmi because of how new I am to /biz/ but we're all still early. This is huge.

>>21844521
Fuck, did we just find something massive? If these attacks get really sophisticated, literally every exchange will need LINK.

>>21844591
Whats even bigger is that flash loans arent even new. So there have been people making money off these loopholes this whole time under the radar and noones talking about it.

>>21844661
well congrats, you just ruined it for everybody

>>21844661
And they can't get fucked over? Does that mean anyone could do this and not risk getting legally shafted

>>21843948
Paid about $500 in gas

>>21844104
kek, its not an exploit anon is arbitrage.

>>21844193
*Facepalm emoji*
Dude.
It's a swap

>>21844851
In the original example it was arbitrage. But the article I was reading was also mentioning how it can be used for exploits or brute force attacks etc

>>21844888
that was the bzx hack a few months ago.... its not an open vulnerability. desu, flashloans are cool, but it's not as lucrative as you seem to think it is. once in a great while someone finds an extreme arbitrage opportunity or an exploit that is newsworthy...but for the most part is just basic arbitrage happening where there's no need for an actual loan, since the liquidity isn't there for large transactions anyway.

>>21844953
Interesting, so what you're saying is that in most cases if they tried to do this with too much money, the slippage would make it not profitable?

nobody on biz is talking about his because nobody is doing it. it's a fairly steep learning curve, even for those of us with a strong programming background. most documentation is poor and outdated. idk what else to tell you.... gas is so expensive right now that arbing dexs isn't even really worth it most of the time

>>21844953
The bzx hack was overblown. They lost about a million $ and have paid it back already. Maker lost 4 million and are still dragging their balls about it 6 months later. Fucking balancer lost 500k just there and its like no one even noticed.

>>21844989
yeah basically. if you bought dai from one liquidiy pool for example to arb and sell it to another pool at a higher rate.....the amount of liquidity in the second pool to support your trade is going to be limited.

>>21845015
>gas is so expensive right now
I should start doing this I know a workaround for gas fees most people don't know

>>21843711
>>21843995
>>21844130
>>21844193
https://docs.aave.com/developers/tutorials/performing-a-flash-loan

this shit is mostly just interesting to me to try and poke around possible exploits. I have some ideas about areas that haven't been hit yet that I wonder about desu

>>21844851
It sounds like it's forcefully arbing one exchange who has their thumbs too far up their assets to have multi-source oracles

It’s basically stock market arbitrage for spergs. Eventually these arbitrage opportunities will exist anymore. But since were on the frontier of defi they still exist and only a few people know how to do it. Eventually these opportunities will be arbitrage out of existence

>>21845068
bullshit

>>21844300
comparatively. $350 ain't shit compared to $16k

>>21843995
taking advantage of the inefficiencies created by having all these one off synthetic at markets that don't communicate to each other and don't have proper arbitrage established yet.

basically it's just fucking over the smaller markets for having too many market takers and not enough market makers.

layer 1 makes these types of contracts possible by the way. the first derivatives market to solve the gas problem wins. guaranteed. why? because they become the de facto "efficient market" in these tires of smart contracts, and fuck over the other players by being the liquidity destination for these types of trades.

>>21844447
it's always going to fuck over whoever is originating the loan.

What happens when exchanges find out

>>21844325
How in the fuck is this possible?
Why isn’t everyone doing it if it’s so easy and ‘profitable’?
There has to be a bigger risk. There has to be roadblocks. What are they?

>>21845460
find out what? the exploit using the kyber price feed that is referenced above isn't an open vulnerability. there's been a few others. bzx had flashloans and leveraged trading pairs, which someone abused right away too. you're going to have to be creative if you expect to find unexplored flash loan exploits

>>21845517
no one said it was easy, and like other anons pointed out it isn't always directly profitable. Chances are this is happening all the time but with small amounts, or to pump trading volume,.

>>21845517
kek...because its not easy. the risk is executing a contract that costs 1ETH in gas and not returning a positive balance.

>>21845517
its not easy, the dude is not just getting eth on his metamask and going around trading, all that needs to happens instantly

>>21844591
>>21844130
>>21844168
>>21844056
>>21843787
>>21843851
>>21843915

we had a great thread about this recently faggots

it is definitely doable if you can write smart contracts and have the time to dig into a API documentations

the real "loss" here is you spending a 100+ hours and not making a dime , that's the risk

>>21845600
>>21779857

forgot to post link

>>21845119
The people who are exploiting this are truly the smartest people on the planet.

>>21845190
I banked my gas months ago when it was cheap. If you don't know you can do this you are a pleb

>>21845068
*buys chi token* HEHE I am so smart

thanks for this thread nubs. Just figured how to do this in about 30min. Been flash loanin exploiting for the past 20min. Already made $200k. Only low IQ cucks dont understand how this works

>>21843918
What part of “nobody on biz will explain this to you” don’t you get? Nobody gives away their alpha and biz is filled with retards who couldn’t perform this anyway. This is a zero sum game, get that through your skull.

Is this just exploiting exchange rates?
How could there be a large enough change in the value of the underlying asset between contract start and end time that would result in a net positive to this?

>>21845600
Checked, I think I'll give this a shot

>>21845643
Not really. Just intelligent opportunists

>>21845672
Post etherscan link or get a job.

>>21845705
>their alpha
Can someone explains what this means? I've been seeing it around a lot lately. Does it mean advantage?

>>21844231

If you had a bot calculating the price feeds of stable coins on all DEXes and tracking the max liquidity available between both sides of arbitrage opportunity its doable. You program the bot to execute the smart contract block when it finds the differences in price and just win. It would be incredibly difficult to do this manually as most arbitrage opportunities last only seconds maybe under a minute unless there is tons of volatility market wide from a major asset pumping/dumping hard.

You can go look at the transactions in Etherscan, its 100% legit. A guy did one of these on Aug 3rd for 40K and paid about 1500 in gas fees.

>>21845772
It’s a financial concept. Look it up on investopedia.

Idk why all you spegs are freaking out. This is a type of arbitrage thought in currency trading class. You could technically do this across exchanges too, but the flash loan allows for immediate execution which is your main risk when running exchange arbitrage.

>>21845911
>if you had a bot
This is clever but I wouldnt even know where to begin in building a bot to track prices on DEXes. What language to write it in? How does the bot pull info from varies DEXes? How fast of internet you would need to make sure the info is accurate before the flash loan is executed. I feel like the people doing this have 10+ years in comp sci. Meanwhile im a brainlet working in sales whos only knowledge in comp sci is linux.

>we live in a world where you can single handedly manipulate a global market and profit off of it in a few moments for virtually no upfront cost

>>21846162

Tons of these opportunities are constantly available. Its the wild west still and will be for some time most likely. As long as you are net positive with the arbitrage vs. the gas costs a bot netting you $1 every time an opportunity arises due to low liquidity on the sell side you win. Those arb trades appear probably hundreds of times a day.

You could also use it to kind of "mine" ETH or maybe even LINK when there are disparities between the pricing on all the DEXes. You are limited to DEXes though if you want to use flash loans because the smart contracts need to all resolve in the same block so it knows it can get paid back. Its called Atomic Arbitrage.

I have a lot of money from leveraged trading and understand the process involved but not the technicals. I wonder what it would costs to hire someone to code a bot for me. I know specifically the information and executions I need it to perform. I imagine once they understood they would just do it themselves. There is money to be made doing this but it will largely be gone probably in less than 5 years.

>>21846799
How long did it take for you to get to this skill level? How many years did you spend reading articles you dont understand? Whats your background?

>>21846799
Email me. I work at Facebook as a developer. bruhbru722@protonmail.com

>>21844244
>Usually they clone the network then bruteforce the contracts to see how they can break it/make money
shit that is a little out of my league

someone just make a discord for niggas on biz actually trying to build stuff

>>21847036
It’s not as complicated as it sounds. Poking around it seems like it would take ~30 hours to get all the testing and contracts set up and then anywhere from 10 to 50 finding actual opportunities if you have a programming background but zero domain knowledge.

>>21846893

I literally just read for 5-8 hours a day while I tend to my futures positions. I don't day trade more position trader/long term trend.

>>21846956

I might do that. Again I just understand the logic that needs dictated. It would be up to you to write the formulas. I can explain all the facets and data that needs coded for it to perform properly

>>21846799
You can email me too.
vicccccctor1444@gmail.com
I'm not extremely well versed in trading, but what you're trying to do doesn't sound very complicated. It would also be pretty fun to work on something with someone else.

holy shit i love sergers now. he's gonna make me rich!

>>21847867

I just don't see how I can collabarate with someone online, dictate exactly what needs to be done and then you disappear and code it yourself and I get nothing but wasted time. I'm not targeting anyone here specifically just in general. I would have no way to ensure my portion of the profits/recourse if we made a successful bot and split the earnings 50/50.

stable coins prices aren't stable, that's all you need to know. do with this info what you will.

>>21847998
Completely fair

>>21845918
Thanks so it is advantage

>>21846162
Someone with a BS in CS could do it.

>>21843915

>>21847081
We’re in early stages on creating something new.

This journey is going to take approximately 3 months but the reward will be worth it.

We’re going to launch BIG in November.

If you’d like to join us, please visit our new discord: /xAXcrd6


Our first goal is 500 members. The reveal will come when we meet the threshold.

Join: /xAXcrd6


There's no presale, nothing on the market yet. As mentioned, this is extremely early.

>>21843623
Some of us are still building arb bots. DELETE THIS NOW!

>>21848298
Too slow nigger, the jig is up

>>21848189
based discord tranny

>>21844447
>Whos getting fucked here? The exchange?
the guy getting paid back gets fucked, since the price spikes to 2 dollars for an instant, and he gets paid back half of what he loaned due to that

>>21843623
The type of people who do this are the same type of people who are buying SUTER rn desu

It’s a real pain in the dick to do because you need to learn the interfaces for each contract involved, and the opportunities disappear real fast so you need to have them on hand. These ppl probably have some good setups ready to go and somewhat automated

For now DEXs and defi are very inefficient markets so it’s doable for now

>>21847998
>>I just don't see how I can collabarate with someone online, dictate exactly what needs to be done and then you disappear and code it yourself and I get nothing but wasted time. I'm not targeting anyone here specifically just in general. I would have no way to ensure my portion of the profits/recourse if we made a successful bot and split the earnings 50/50.
dont go into business with somebody you cant sue, simple as
that being said talk to me if you live in the USA that means you could sue me kek

>>21848189
stfu emily

Cringe thread, competition for those opportunities is fiercer than stock market HFT, there are literally floors of people involved in HFT scanning and executing arbitrage with millions in investment.

>used 2 mil to make 1k
Sooooo based. Probably could have all in-d ksm last week and been at 4 mil rn