/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>21701437
I think it will just add inflation till the extra cash from UBI won't matter anymore.
Good for crypto

>>21701437
when you print out 1k usd there aren't any more goods or services being produced (in fact less since so many people would stop working). So the prices will inflate to a point where the 1k a month isn't relevant anymore.

>>21701508
>>21701532
Programs like UBI actually do the opposite of inflation and provide a deflationary pressure. If you print money then yes there is inflation -- But Yang's plan doesn't call for printing money but instead a Value-Added Tax. Everyone pays in, but those who consume the most pay in the most. This tends to be the wealthier. The wealthier also spend their money slower than someone living paycheck to paycheck. Then everyone gets the same amount back: $1,000/mo. By increasing the purchasing power of the lower tier, you increase the velocity of money (how quickly the same dollar bill is spent). Each time the dollar exchanges hands economic activity is generated. The more often and quickly this happens, the more the economy grows. As the economy grows there are increased production efficiencies and more competition in the marketplace. This brings prices down. Since the total money supply didn't change, boom: deflation, not inflation. Yang isn't a politician. He has a degree in Economics from Brown and a Law Degree from Columbia. He knows this stuff, and he knows politicians from both sides aren't doing anything to help us, so he is.

>>21701437
absolutely retarded, seriously, drooling retard sub-60 IQ level proposition

>>21701580
pic related is an UBI supporter

>>21701580
Are all these people retards too?

More dependence on government for livelihood --> more strength of government and ability to cancel payments if government doesn't like you for any reason ---> slavery where people are afraid to revolt

Can someone please post the libertarian coomer

>>21701437
do you people not understand how inflation works?

>>21701568
Its pretty based, but /biz/ is pretty economically illiterate. Yang could sell it as a memecoin and they would love it though

>>21701532
You would just index it so as inflation increased, the UBI would also increase.

>>21701603
>x to infinity

>>21701697
Really sad he didn't make it
Guess a handful of humans just love hogging resource till their planet and people perish

>>21701609
Yes, mislead and/or retarded

>>21701884
I bet you can't produce a coherent argument against it.

>>21701924
pee pee poo poo

>>21701924
Also you first, convince me UBI is a good idea

>>21701568
>rent price will drop
That is a massive cope, in France we created funds to help student find a place to live because the prices were too high (400€) all it did was increase the average rent of about that amount

>>21701972
It generates economic growth while being deflationary.

>>21701437
President donald trump here and I approve this message

>>21701437
i used to play an arma 3 life server and it had a universal income, it was good because it allowed newbies to buy atv's so that they could pick peaches so that they could later afford suv's to farm weed and cocaine. i think it would work similiarly in the real world by allowing people to get their foundation laid, or at the very least to have a foundation despite how terrible their life situation is.

>>21701938
but avatarfag. ok.
this place is gross

>>21702001
mhm pee pee poo poo

>>21701938
Fucking genius this shit right here
>>21701924
Got absolutely fucking wrecked

>>21701609
The pope, niggers and jews.
Slavers and their star slaves.

It would be nice if we had a minimum, so people can at least eat and live indoors.

>>21702016
basically: https://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/268496271/

ultimately inevitable and ultimately ideal. the trouble is getting there.

>>21701568
Lol whatever nigga it doesn't work that way. Sure it goes back or whatever in the form of taxes, but theres other ways of not paying taxes or offsetting like debt repayments or corporate purchases to "reinvestments". This is exactly a inflation scheme to get everyone to pay more taxes. Total money supply does not have to grow to contribute to inflation, its just one of the easier indicators to spot when they don't fudge the gdp requirements. I am not a fan of UBI unless gov. fixes its debt problem(neva gonna happen). They only good thing about a true UBI is that it speeds up the inevitable loss of confidence of fiat or US debt based digital currency(i.e. combo vuvuzuela removing zeros + mark of beast credit) . Politicians dont care because they already know and play musical future board member chairs.

>>21701508
nobody cares about inflation or money velocity anymore, just gib money so i can put it into crypto, gold and stocks
normies gonna buy little toys with it which increases profits, so everyone wins

Bottom right should just be
"rent's going up and don't be late next time"

>>21702076
you mean that people can eat indoors

since when is /biz/ made up of economically illiterate commies?
a hypothetical UBI of 1000 dollars per month would mean that low paid manufacturing or service jobs wont get worked anymore, until the salary is increased, which therefore increases costs of the products/ services, which therefore creates inflation.
the very same would happen with housing prices, they would just get inflated away, so that someone with a ubi wont be able to pay for basic rent.
soon the ubi wont have the originally suggested purchasing power anymore, leading to demands that it should be increased.
the cycle continues until the currency is devalued.
now, who lost after that happened? every long term bond holder, everyone with savings, basically everyone without assets which are resistant to inflation.
who won? everyone issuing debt in that certain currency, so namely the state, big companys, everyone with a shitton of leveraged assets.

fucking disgusting

>>21701437
>Universal Basic Income gets introduced
>Landlords just increase the rent by the exact UBI amount per month

What's the point

>>21702469
they will be worked, 1000$ will be too much to starve, too little to live

>>21701609
Genuinely, yes.

>>21702461
huh?

>>21702675
ubi is too low for rent

>>21701508
fpbp

>>21702469
and to everyone answering
>b-but we will finance it through taxes!
so you want to create a tax which brings in 328 billion per month, or 3.936 trillion per year?
the total tax income of the us in the year 2017 were 3.3336 trillion.

>>21702469

>>21702556
absolutely subjective, saying $1000 is no different to saying 1000 niggercoins

>>21702707
>azn
topkek

>>21701437
I'm not against it in principle, but in practice it would still mean that poor people remain poor and are less incentivised to try to better their situation. Also it would make them even more dependent on the state.

>>21702795
not an argument

>>21702469
Rent controls, job guarantee, price controls if necessary.

>>21702765
Thats not much more

>>21701437
The real question is where did the government get that money from.

They printed it? Enjoy inflation.
They taxed the rich? Enjoy higher prices on goods and services and lower wages.
They taxed the middle class? Enjoy higher taxes.

Scandinavian countries have so many welfare programs its basically UBI and the price of living there is off the roof. You can't simulate the effects of UBI with a tiny sample size of society. You either make it happen or you don't.

>>21703291
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

YOU ARE FUCKING RETARDED

>>21703354
Pee pee oo poo

>>21703313
so you want to double the tax income with one tax? how high should that VAT be, which yang suggested?
and, how is that not socialism?
>>21703291
can you just please go back to your chainlink thread? you obviously have no idea what youve just said.

>>21703412
If it causes unemployment just have federal government employ them if rent goes too high have rent controls. Prices too high have price controls. Also as high as you would need it to be to pay for UBI.

>>21703402
while I agree, I also implore you to watch this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0h8kfA4i_A

>>21703457
>how to create udssr-socialism 101
>how to create a worthless currency
>how to create a thriving black market
no seriously, this is the wrong thread for you

>>21701938
based.

>>21701568
>Value-Added Tax. Everyone pays in, but those who consume the most pay in the most
>By increasing the purchasing power of the lower tier, you increase the velocity of money (how quickly the same dollar bill is spent).
The value added tax will have a chilling effect on the velocity of money because people don't want to pay more money for the same goods.
There's a big assumption that the amount of velocity gained by the low tier will outweigh the chilling effect on the high tier.

Maybe it'll work, maybe not. Free money sounds nice but I'm pretty sure I'd quit my job if I had an extra $1k/month, so I think it's a risky change. When there's proven methods for some of the problems it doesn't make sense to do something unknown/risky. For instance to solve high rent, I think Japan's model seems to work best, at least for more urban areas. Relax building permits, massively cut down immigration, seems to work fine.

Why are the Jews SO insistent on this idea? We get it, you want us to "think about it".

>>21701508
Basically this. Capitalism works because people have fire under their ass. If that’s removed USA turns to USSR - cap the earnings and nanny-state the poor. This will be basically it.

>>21703591
someone please do the math on how high this VAT should be to finance 1000 dollars for everyone in the us

>>21703524
Black markets wont exist if the prices are set lower that makes no sense. Plus the whole point of it is so that the currency is worth something.

>>21703610
Why would jews support UBI you dumb moron. That would make them more equal to regular people

>>21701568
$1000 per month would cover my mortgage. How would this not massively inflate housing prices. Why would I sell it for anywhere near the price I purchased it when I know that your average person in my position could now afford double without being in a different financial position to my current one.
My sell price would immediatly go from $270,000 to $530,000. If no one is willing to pay that amount, I could just sit patiently and let your UBI continue to pay my mortgage.

>>21701609
Yes minus nixon

>>21703702
Investment homes would be money printers. Increase your rent due to UBI. If tenants don't pay, evict them. If house is empty, use your UBI to pay the mortgage. People with multiple houses will become wealthy overnight while renters will be priced out and become over more dependent on the rental system, to which they will now be slaves.

>>21703317
Finnfag here. I suppose what you said is right. You can live being unimployed, but at least if you have a family you get so little money, it's hell. Maybe if you live alone you can actually save some money from your unemployment cash.
Been unemployed, now wage slave. I prefer my current state to being unemployed, but I will be a billionaire soon.

>>21703617
My brother's friend came from former USSR state. His uncle or something used to be a tractor driver. The government demanded the driver to use a certain amount of gas everyday to see they worked the correct amount. The guy just poured out some gas from the tractor and went to sleep instead of working.

>>21701437
UBI isnt communism, read up !
https://medium.com/@taylorfredrickson/la-salaire-a-vie-the-socialist-alternative-to-ubi-9f3f6091fad9

>UBI!!!

It's a NWO transition phase

>>21703757
Rent controls etc

>>21703819
still going on about rent controls huh?

>>21703665
>Black markets wont exist if the prices are set lower that makes no sense
ok, lets say you want to buy a car. this is how it will go down:
you go to the dealer and will ask for a car, you got your 200000 dollars in hand. the dealer will say, that they are currently out of stock, since there is overdemand for the fixed price cars and undersupply, since workers feel like they dont get paid enough but have job guarentees, so they dont have to be productive.
now you will say to the dealer: "well, is there any way you can organize me a car somehow?" and the dealer will answer:
"sure, if you gift something to me, ill gift something to you"
now you pull out a pack of stable, non inflated, non price controlled currency and pay with that and the 200000 shit dollars.
with that you will leave the dealer with a new car.
dont have any foreign currency or precious metals? too bad, no car for you.

>>21703867
Just make the workers work and have better law enforcement/IRS to find corruption or black markets
>>21703840
Yes bc its a bad argument

>>21703945
>Just make the workers work and have better law enforcement/IRS to find corruption or black markets
damn you are a troll, arent you? so yeah, lets install a KGB then, which drains a ton of taxes and is only there to terrorize the populace.
great idea. as i said: >>21703524

>>21703945
gold up are you just shitpostingfor lulz

kek
this is truly "Battle of the Shitposters: The Thread (schizo edition)"

>>21703945
>Make the workers work
What are you, a plantation owner in 1858?
If you have a job guarantee, you will do the minimum amount of work. I know this as I am someone who has a job guarantee and does the bare minimum. If I also received a UBI, I would probably care even less, as the debt's (the only reason I work the hours I do now) would be covered by the UBI. I could pretty much immediately drop my shifts down to 2 per week to cover my expenses and live comfortably.

>>21703990
Id like to have some sort of secret police yes, any functioning country has one. Economic growth isnt everything or if it is then why dont we work 16 hours a day i mean you have some sort of cognitive dissonance
>>21703993
No i legitimately believe this

>>21704090
I believe I want to shit in your mouth and dangle my balls over your eyes

>>21704060
Well i mean less job guarantee more conscription. Fight or die etc etc

>>21704112
Well i think you should be in a dress and also you should take your pretty titty pills and suck me off

>>21704152
so in your ideal UBI world will sex-changes be state-enforced?

>>21704186
In some cases yes like in a court ordered or executive order situation like some people are just meant to be sex slaves

>>21704090
You would not be able to have a functioning society with UBI. It would really only benefit the middle to upper class money wise, but would negatively affect the country as a whole as you would either need extreme wage growth in menial jobs, or not have the services you are used to. If you currently work 4 days per week at a restaurant for $7.25 per hour (232 per week, before tax), why would you continue going to work at all when you suddenly start receiving $1000 per month from UBI? You would be getting roughly what you have now, for literally nothing. You might as well just continue living within your current means and not have to work.

>>21704217
ah yes that makes sense now, i am bereeve in universrel basric incrome ><

>>21704240
Well its not an option you have to work

>>21704267
state enforced homosexuality uwu~
i am loosing braincells by reading this guys statements, pls just ignore him

>>21704240
Were already on the road to hyperinflation. It hits overnight. Savings are at an all time high, consumer credit balances is all time lows, meaning there’s going to be a shit ton of spending power hitting everything when market confidence returns. When employment numbers return to normal, expect at least a minimum 20% price increase in every item and service there is. This could happen within 2 years easily. Let’s just hope your jobs raise your pay to match, silly little gremlin GIB getters celebrating the money printers.

>>21704312
who me?

>>21704090
gideon you pasty kike

>>21704335
Ignore him cumslut you deserve better

>>21704335
ye, pls dont feed the troll advocating for state enforced homosex, communism, etc.

>>21701609
what a bunch of absolute loosers

>>21704340
Daniel im debating go away

https://xtake.finance/

https://medium.com/@xtake/public-sale-success-report-on-transparency-and-upcoming-ubi-65c51a3ad8d9

>>21704352
kys faggot

>>21704369
righto mate, almost had a seizure scrolling through this thread, I'm getting a bit disorientated, I just need to find the exit door

>>21704240
hnnnhnghoflllppp durrrrrrr if u get enough money to live in a shithole and afford ramen every day for doing nothing why would you have *annnyy incentive* to boost your income with labor. WDYM people like having more money?????

>>21704402
In the future ill force feminize you and you will remember this moment forever as a colossal mistakr

>point of social welfare system is to help those who are of lower class or middle class who are unemployed
>lets make it so that the social welfare system gives everyone a 1k dollar check a month!
Why? 1k a month to people like me means little to nothing. And slashing our current welfare system, which is made so that people cannot abuse gibs is fucking stupid. Not that there are not issues with it, but UBI and a VAT are not the solutions.

Be honest, you want UBI because you are a neet who wants gibs. Chances are it would impact key sectors with price increases all while making more demand for social welfare programs since niggers are too stupid to spend their gibs properly (as we saw pre-90s).

>>21704461
Ok, to prison

>>21704126
Ah ok. Not really worth discussing it with you then. You obviously have no idea what you are talking about and have the opinions of a 16 year old child. Maybe you should look at immigrating to North Korea fren, because you are obviously in the wrong country.
Having a 'Fight or die' mentality means you have never conducted military service. Having a volunteer military ensures professionalism. When I served, there is no way I would have been comfortable volunteering to work besides someone who did not choose to be there. Plus if they can force conscription, then they will drop the income of those who choose to work, thereby replacing your employees with that of a lower calibre who have no interest in ensuring the work is done.
If anything, your whole mentality is backwards.
If you remove the idea of UBI and instead, increase minimum wage while scrapping all social assistance, then you will have more competition for jobs, less job security, more tax and an overall more stable economy through supply/demand of work. Provide free healthcare to tax payers only. This will also decrease the monetary gap between employers and employees as businesses that are not sustainable would fail, therefore less profit for owners due to higher wages and you would see technological progression in the workplace implemented faster.
>Those that choose not to work starve.
>Those that choose not to work cannot afford housing.
>Those that choose not to work die from preventable disease.
In a generation or two, you wont have people who choose not to work. You will also have families choosing not to have as many children, therefore hopefully getting our population under control.

The more benefits you give to workers, the more good workers you will have. The world needs to stop seeing the small business owner as the good guy. Let the small businesses be bought out by larger, more profitable and financially stable companies.

>>21704060
its quite obvious that the solution to this is just expelling you from the nation like Singapore because you have lazy negro genes. Either you take your state mandated job to be a productive member of society alongside your ubi or youre gross ew icky get away from me. You CAN make people work, you just lack imagination (becuz u r lazy negro)

>>21701437
A Nice idea but not economically viable on a large scale.

The only countries that could use it successfully are small, low population density wealthy countries like finland, norway, etc.

It does not work in countries with to many people or too little money.

Basically, its a luxury reserved for already wealthy countries where there is little need for it. Try doing that shit in china, india, or even countries like the UK or USA and it will collapse quickly because of the amount of money being distributed compared to the relative small amount of money coming in from tax payers.

Its a simple money in vs money out problem.

>>21704452
Looks like you fell right into my trap, you filthy self-destructing kike. Ladies and gentlemen, I hope this thread has made it as clear as day to you, the perverted minds of the discord trannies that peddle this absolutely subversive shite.

/thread

>>21704525
No because such a system would have massive unemployment due to increasing automation. Like 95% of jobs dont do anything and they will be gotten rid of

>>21704571
Its only because my job is guaranteed that I don't care. If there was competition in the job, then I would put in the effort to keep my job. If you take away the fear off losing your job, what incentive is there for me to do more then the minimum? You could offer me more money I guess, and hope that I choose to do more work for it, but you cant fire me, cant make me redundant, cant cut my hours. Basically you are stuck with my minimum effort for the next 37 years, unless I choose to quit.
This problem would be immediately fixed by removing my job guarantee, so that losing my job and becoming homeless/starving was a possibility. Which personally, I am all for.

>>21704591
Im not a tranny i am going to rape you

>>21704571
That's ok. The world is obviously not sustainable for those people anymore. What you would rather is just have them sit around at home and consume/pump out more unneeded kids. Better to let it happen slowly then hit a deciding point in 100 years where they will likely need to make the decision to cull the useless as the world will no longer be sustainable.

>>21704697
No, to the work camp you go

Above post was meant for >>21704676

>>21704580
To add to this, the other conditions for UBI to work would be :

>majority of country still willing to work with UBI implemented
>a well educated population where low income jobs arent competed for

basically you need a country any of the scandanavian ones full of white people and minimal niggers.

>>21701437
It's the only way to support current civilization as jobs become less and less and working in itself becomes unnecessary. To get to this point though we need the free market to run its course, rather without any government fiddling

>>21704783
Actually id rather have more kids so america can become the top dog and tamr over the world in the future. Just get rid of jews and africa and mexico and china and india

>>21704697
the incentive is knowing youll be expelled for being lazy and useless quite possibly even gross. Sit around doing nothing all day and see how long before you shoot yourself retart

>>21703591
You will quit your job but someone else will gladly take your place for the extra money.

>>21704697
>if only my job gave me some kind of incentive like having to compete with other retards on how cleanly I could lick my masters shoe or some kind of threat of homelessness or impoverishment maybe I would care about my job more. I like the sound bossman makes when he cracks the whip it really lets me know I’m part of something greater
Who the fuck posts like this? You need to take your faggy can do attitude back to the 40s with the rest of the boomers

>>21704815
You would achieve this through my example. When you cull the weak, the country remaining would thrive. You would have 1950's style growth. The degenerates and social issues would dissapear as those that support those ideals would starve. 20-30 years and you would have a population of hard working american's again, who make a living off their own backs and compete against each other for better lifestyles.
If we follow your way, the country will continue to degrade into usless neets, lazy workers, social justice warriors and Gib me dats.
Though it is likely that a mexican would do better then you in the world I described, as at least some of them are willing to do hard work.

the solution, my friends, is to produce so much surplus wealth using advanced automation (third world and brown people free labor) by looming the threat of the largest armed forces by several times over their head and then use half of it to fund the military and the other half to fund a UBI. Not a single American will ever have to work again.

>>21701972
A shitload of jobs and entire fields will disappear in the next couple of decades due to automation. A decade or two after that and we'll achieve AI singularity which will eliminate almost every single job left.

>>21701437
Stop this shit u idiots unless you live in Asia, Europe or South America because USA can't even break free from a virus kek wake up

>>21704941
2 concepts my friend
state reeducation camps
wage inequality
to hold down the degenerates and minorities respectively. Their free jobs wont save them :>3

>>21704825
I'm not talking about doing nothing, i'm talking about doing the minimum. Like I said, I already have a cruisey government job where I cannot be fired or made redundant. I know you get away with it, because I have been for year. You still work, just not as hard as some of those around you, who pick up the extra work for no extra gain. In truth, if everyone in my workplace did the minimum, it would not affect us workers at all and there is nothing that could be done to increase the productivity outside of bribing us, because like I said, I cant be fired or replaced.

>>21704966
yeah bro weed lmao

>>21705021
in utopia if you do the minimum you'll be prescribed an extensive femininization treatment and program by force if necessary given as a sex slave to encourage actual hard workers. Just because you cant get fired or replaced from your gov job doesnt mean the gov job must be that way

>>21701568
UBI is absolutely retarded for anyone who understands human nature. Most people don't want to fucking work shitty jobs. Give them an UBI and they won't, even if they could theoretically make more with those shitty jobs.

>>21705021
Maybe if I was 'gross' or socially inept, it would affect me, but again, only if my morals allowed me to care about that. Luckily for me, I get along with everyone in my workplace and don't feel any negative feelings about the amount of work I do. Plus it helps that I am above averagely good at the work that I do choose to do. No one has ever pulled me up on my lack of productivity overall. Basically my job for the past 6 years has been to talk to the roasties I work with (90% female workplace), of whom I get along and if anything, negatively affect their productivity through distraction.
>Not a humble brag, i'm not saying i'm a chad, i'm just a (?possibly) slightly above average looking guy who is already happily married and is socially outgoing.

>>21701437
nazis weren't right wingers

>>21705074
>prescribed an extensive femininization treatment

>In the future ill force feminize you and you will remember this moment forever as a colossal mistakr
whats it with being pro-UBI and having a tranny fetish?

>>21705143
Overall, what I am saying is, I am happy with my lifestyle. If I was given UBI, there is no way I would choose to continue working my current hours, because I could do something more enjoyable with my time. Nearly everyone would be in the same position as me and you would end up with either no workers, or employing more under-qualified people to fill the employment gaps.

>>21701616
I'd rather be a slave and not work than be a slave and work

>>21705053
Kek, people get extremely defensive when someone brings up automation and what the endgame of it ultimately is. Do you think that people like Jeff Bezos will keep people employed as some fucking novelty when all of Amazon's operations are 100% automated?

>>21701437
The market will adapt to helicopter money.

>>21701609
Friedman only believed in UBI if it meant cutting down on all welfare, which the state will never do.

I like it
People wouldn't have to wageslave in soulless jobs
I would try to build my own small business up, without any risk as i would not have to instantly start making profits
Many would do so
Ubi fucks big corp, its nice

>>21705258
come back when automation has actually erased most of the jobs.

>>21705219
We are rapists and pillagers i served 5 years as thehead of myown rape amd pillage farm

>>21705376
Come back when every single person who lost their job due to the plandemic will get employed again (hint: those jobs are never fucking coming back).
It won't happen overnight, but people sure as shit aren't even trying to prepare for the inevitable.

>>21705456
see, thats the problem with you people. if one listened to you in the 50s, he would have prepared for a life on the moon.

>>21701609
in fact yes, retarded, child raping, jews.. god father of propaganda... really anon go back to plebbit with this meme

>>21701938
REKT

>>21705509
Yeah, let's hope that people will still be able to wageslave a thousand years in the future.

>>21702401
>nobody cares about inflation or money velocity anymore
That's not going to age well

>>21705258
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_(job_description)
also are you fucking retarded? is the whole world dependent on the employment of low-skilled, wagies bashing rocks together to make pebbles?

>>21701437
UBI needs personal net worth cap so we don't actually spiral out of control

>>21705456
>businesses optimize and become more efficient
>wagie loses his job
>wagie ragie
>wagie pleads for UBI

>>21701437
What are policital compass meme always missing the point of libertarianism?

>>21702520
rentcucks btfo

>>21705671
We're already at a point where a large number of people on this planet are never going to be employable anymore and it's going to get so much worse as time goes on.
An automation engineer's job is to literally unemploy people, but one day even he will be unemployed by his own creation.

>>21701568
Taking from the rich always goes well unless you're rich or run out of rich people

>>21701568
>Taxing the ones that who consume the most

Sure sounds like taxing th rich, which ends poorly every single time. Look at New York post Riots. All the rich people bailed either when that started or when the government there decided to jack up taxes to compensate for nearly half the tax payer base leaving.

You'll just chase all the big tax payers out and crush large cities and the US infrastructure which is already basically fucked.

>>21703313
Y u cant read

>>21705750
Because pure libertarianism gets massive problems with monopolization in a limited world due to no maximum wealth cap
Generations of people becoming priced out of land by some landlord that gets his personal child slaves that way

>>21705963
????????????????????????????????????

Die commie scum.

>>21705963
You're underestimated the deepness of human greed.
Back in the days 90% of labour was food production. The industrial revolutions made it so all good production could be done by less than 10% of people. Yet do we have 80% of jobless people? No, new "needs" appeared when all food needs were appeased.

Basically when all production is automated we're going to see a rise of demand for man made stuffs. Naturally grown food, tailored clothing, handcrafted furnitures.

Tons of jobs can be made by low iq normies that can still have value, you're just not imaginative enough. But the market is

>>21706127
Regardless of that it's misrepresenting what libertarianism stands for, which is freedom both in civil rights and economics.

In the memes the libertarian is just a guy trying to make as much money as possible, it has nothing to do with libertarianism, that's just a caricature of a capitalist from a leftist point of view.
Capitalists (as in people who own a lot of Captial) are almost never libertarians, they are apolitical and dont shy about using the state for their own interests.

>>21701568
>>21701609
>>21701697
>>21701773
>>21701924
God the political shilling has already begun. Sage and hide.
The problem with welfare is that welfare abusers are not intelligent people, they won't control their spending nor their procreation, so it's a neverending cycle of having more money > making more expenses > being perpetually broke. Unintelligent people do not plan, save or anything like that. So you're taking massive risks by increasing government control (which are all a bunch of idiots no matter their flag and make-believe "ideologies") and solving no problems.
My family was very affluent 4 generations ago, the third generation squandered it, my grandpa was stone cold broke, and my dad has already reversed this pattern by going upper middle class. Second-generation immigrants from good upbringings and nations make it in the USA as well, i am absolutely sure that if you're still poor 3 generations in you're a fucking retard who wasn't educated by your parents and won't educate your multiple sons.

>>21703591
>The value added tax will have a chilling effect on the velocity of money because people don't want to pay more money for the same goods.

This is why prices further go down across the economy. If the demand is lower because prices are higher, then suppliers will have to decrease prices across the board. This is where the theory that UBIVAT is deflationary comes in. Even though those suppliers earn less from reducing their prices, they're spending less at the other shops, who have also lowered theirs.

>>21701437
Ubi will be used as a means to controll people, say something((they)) don't like that's a decrease in ubi. Attent the wrong protest get your Ubi cut.

>>21706266
I agree, when stuff like clothing can eventually be just 3d printed out people will finally start to appreciate hand woven fabrics and hand made clothes.
I think that everything will be alright once our next and final industrial revolution will be over with, I'm only concerned for the transition period.

>>21706427
Capitalist are mostly dirty crony centrist scum
They want state intervention to give them money but not to help poor people
They want massive regulations to hold up big corp monopolys, by patent laws and also to reduce competition by unnecessary bureorocratic hurdles,
but not to protect the environment
They want a super complex buerocratic system with lots of loopholes that are hard to find so only they can use them
Most libertarians just want a good and honest (upper)middle class life and want to be left the fuck alone by annoying shit without real use, except for the scumbags that play the system
and they want that for others too
Nevertheless the born child slave meme discribes the problem that pure libertarianism has as ideology and pure libertarianism could very well end in a dystopic world where only one human owns everything and everyone else is a slave

>>21706800
>a dystopic world where only one human owns everything and everyone else is a slave
Oh you mean just like communism and nationalsocialism and probably every single empire/reign/nation within human history?
Weeeeeee...

>>21701568
VAT is your solution?
VAT is shit, at least, as long as there are other taxes in the way. It is just another excuse for the government to take a cut without adding anything to the exchange of value. What a shit idea.

I could see, with a lot of effort on my part, robots+UBI working. VAT adds nothing, except for more pressure to small businesses.

Fuck communists, fuck socialists, fuck lazy welfare leeches, fuck big government, fuck taxation, fuck academia, fuck guilty middle class white people, fuck jannies, fuck trannies, fuck you.

>>21706943
Take the anarchist pill anon
People should only own what they personally utilize
Landlords should be killed
Bureocrats should be killed
People who want to steal your stuff/freedom should be killed

>>21707114
All communists must hang.

>>21707114
Swallow my big black pill anarchofag, if i'm stronger than you i take your shit and steal everything you have.

And it doesn't matter if i'm white, black or asian, this concept works since life started on this planet.

>>21705368
no anon

>>21707360
Guns equalize all humans, raw strength doesn't matter
You can easily shoot me unexpected but nobody wants to live with someone who just shoots people out of greed - thus you will be shot next
this is the foundation of society from the very beginning and the reason the nap holds inherent truth

>>21707401
Yes anon

>>21701568
you don't have to print money to cause inflation. UBI -WOULD- result in an immediate rise in the price of the CPI.
also, yang's budget is sketchy.

>>21701720
the definition of hyperinflation.

>>21704090
>Id like to have some sort of secret police yes, any functioning country has one
lol, i would fucking rush across the room and cave your 110lb frame in if you said this anywhere near me. the state of UBI faggots.

>>21708117
No
Everyone working gubernment intelligence should get the bullet

>>21702401
have you seen venezuela??

>>21701568
>deflationary pressure
Lmfao no. Tyrone and Jose will now have 1000 every month. Every store in their vicinity will raise prices because of increased economic activity because businesses know they can make more money because there is more demand. They will also levy any vat on the consumer (tax incidence) and this will be hit against the lower class who now has more money.

>>21701437
Move to fucking Venezuela for a bit and tell us about it yourself

>>21708349
And to add to this you would either need to cut out welfare programs or significantly raise taxes to afford this type of spending.

>>21702469
>>21701568
>>21702092
I swear to god

>>21702469
>UBI
>communism
well obviously you had nothing witty to say anyway

>>21703291
yeah bernie's literal communism wew

>>21708349
>Every store in their vicinity will raise prices because of increased economic activity

They might produce more to sell too, you don't know that for sure

>>21703603
this is true
a few humans hogging all resource really does drain society and the planet as a whole
the parasitic few and the many that slave, produce, and consoom for them

>>21701437
I think it's pretty much inevitable. If AI wipes out as many jobs as we are thinking it has to happen, it won't just fuck up blue collar workers, it will fuck up white collar workers too. Analysts, accountants, all that shit can be automated. It's not a matter of if it's a matter of when.

>>21701609
This picture unironically made me stop supporting UBI

>>21706637
that does not even make any sense
if you are behind bars or overseas for too long you won't get your basic income
that's it
they can't just decrease or take someone's check away for no reason

>>21701437
I don’t want to subsidize niggers with taxes anymore than I already do. I’m okay with UBI as long as it only goes to other white people, black taxes pay for black UBI, etc.
Keep that shit separate already, we aren’t compatible with each other.

>>21708989
Yeah I do. If you allow easier access to money, prices go up. Increased demand means higher price. Businesses will be able to push prices upward and increases in production (which will be hit by vat in your model) will be baked into the price increase. What will end up happening is the 1000 will still not be enough for Tyrone to make ends meet so he will still need welfare. So in the end we will just have things be more expensive while still needing to support niggers.

>>21701437
I think it's a symptom of a dying economy that is overwhelmed in debt saturation on impossibly low interest rates.

>>21706800
I agree with most of that, basically we need free market and private property because that's the best way of producing wealth but the State must have a big enough backbone to bit let itself be corrupted by corporations.
If the State is corruptible on the long run economic libertarianism will always degenerate into crony capitalism.

The brand of democracy we have right now is very susceptible to this kind of corruption btw, I think the solution is either decentralization pushed to 11 so that statesmen never have too much individual or collective power, or litteral hereditary monarchy with some balance or something.
That's a hard problem

>>21701437
We already have a form of UBI. It's called the welfare system and it's shit.

>>21709049
https://youtu.be/AYjDIFrY9rc
idk what to tell you breh
people from all walks of life support it, from the richest on the planet, to the poorest
who'd you want to see support it then if you hate everyone in the pic?

>>21707962
>Guns equalize all humans, raw strength doesn't matter
Who said that? You?
>This is the foundation of society
The foundation of society is to fucking survive and build a stronger competition against our enemies.
Let's set it this way, if my society is stronger than your, i can steal your land and everything you have, and share it with my members.

And guess what? Your society and your retarded moralistic views will be wiped out of existance.

>>21709244
https://youtu.be/kl39KHS07Xc

>>21709244
Exactly this.
If you want ubi then you need to agree that we need to get rid of 90% of welfare. But most lefties argue that there should be more of both.

>>21709277
Who's telling that your society will be stronger this his?

>>21701568
>de-incentivize automation
>good

>>21709369
Nobody, is an example, it can work the other way as well.

How are you going to have UBI when you keep letting every nigger in the world into your country? UBI just worsens productive people's relative position, driving whites closer to extinction.

>>21709451
if humans put on a show of value sure
but UBI actually adapts people to automation

>>21701609
Mostly.

>>21701437
It's good for NEET that don't have expenses because they live in their parent's basement like me.

>>21701437
get rid of welfare, etc and just ubi everyone 500-1000 a month at age 25-65

>>21701437
UBI will be the excuse that govts have to destroy their old fiat currencies and then provide the solution into a new crypto based stable coin issued by central banks.

>>21709776
It will abolish welfare. But it's universal.
Forever.

>>21709524
So what's even your point?

>>21709881
That anarchism is retarded and your nap is a joke.
Can't you get it alone?

>>21709277
>Who said that
Npc way of "thinking" detected
>The foundation of society is to build a stronger competition against their enemy's
Wrong, at the start of society the world was pretty much empty, warfare between humans only started when the first societies already existed for some time
Every society punishes murder/thievery on its members, as nobody wants to live together with someone who is known to murder/steal, as they dont want to become victims themselves
Yes, societies based on raiding can be built up, even those still punish murder/thievery between members every society that knows of those raiders instantly sees them as common enemy - thus building such a society gets harder the faster information travels
Also humans are extraordinarily good at killing other humans, and we got so good at it that warfare is just too expensive compared to the potential gains
>>21709826
Digital government currency wont use blockchain
Why would they?
It will be centralized so they can change every account balance at a whim

>>21701437
It's only necessary because our economy is built on fiat. It's a bandaid that hides a systematic problem (eg, income tax, property tax, sales tax, basically any tax meant to get dollars out of circulation in mass and at a high enough frequency to matter)

>>21701437
It's great for gold and silver

>>21701437
As a landlord, I would just raise rent to compensate for all the extra money you’re getting. :)

>>21701568

This is always bring fucking retarded. It assumes everyone pays in and never acknowledges the tens of millions of wage slaves that simply won't go to work.

The amount of "trust me bro" required to make UBI work is so ridiculous that only your typical retarded commie falls for it.

>>21710532
and people call the slaves parasites?

>>21710572
>It assumes everyone pays in and never acknowledges the tens of millions of wage slaves that simply won't go to work.
take a step back and listen to what you sound like

>>21710532
Me too, then I would raise rent a further $300 every time they objected.

>>21701437
Won't work in a multicultural society

>>21701437
I would immediately stop working.

>>21710637

How about you step back to the gulag, commie. Look at what happened with the Boomer remover stimulus. Look at the time of pictures of people who were posting pictures captioned "1200 with of weed"

>>21701437
I think fuck the Jews gimme that bag

>>21710588
Well, you're the one who feels entitled to live on property that I prucahsed, parasite.

>>21710300
>Npc way of "thinking" detected
>So what's even your point
A "so what?" libertarian calling me an NPC, kinda funny.

>>21710914
>Well, you're the one who feels entitled to live, parasite.

lets give 100000 USD everyone, everyone will be rich then.
socialist are so fucking retarded, economic laws are still at work, no matter how much you change the name of your petty social programs

>>21710914
>one rat slaughters another and proclaims to be king fuck of shit hill

>>21701437
It will probably be required at some point. Automation is going to replace most workers. And no “new jobs” (like the senile boomers say on LinkedIn) will be created.

>>21701609
yes.

>>21701437
Unironically Friedman's NIT is the least bad form of welfare overall

>>21711447
>yes lets wait till it's too late and “””society””” is already igniting the atmosphere

>>21711675
I’m being realistic. You think the pieces of shit in Congress would ever pass UBI before it’s absolutely necessary? Congress isn’t capable of foresight.

>>21703317
Yet scandinavian countries have the highest living standards.
The secret to the working welfare state is to have a nationally and ideologically homogenous society... oops!

>>21711278
these posts remind me that I am not going insane, and that I'm not alone in my thinking, thank you anon

>>21711447
This is why I support UBI. I see it as a step along the way to abolishing all the useless shitty jobs that don't need to exist. Automation and efficiency gains are being held back because of an old-fashioned fetish for muh jerbs. So many jobs (especially office jobs) don't really contribute anything to the economy, and the real economic role played by the people who hold those jobs is consumerism. Let's be done with the facade.
>your real job is shopping
NEETs genuinely have the right idea. The goal should be to abolish work, not prop up a dying system.
The main challenge in UBI as I see it is making sure that people working in low-paid but genuinely important jobs (emergency services, infrastructure, schools and hospitals) don't pack it in as soon as they get the check. But bullshit busywork office jobs? They can't die quickly enough.

>>21711725
it's long overdue
but yes humans are known to drain and hog their planet's resource till it becomes another Venus

>>21702469
>a hypothetical UBI of 1000 dollars per month would mean that low paid manufacturing or service jobs wont get worked anymore
Why is the finance board filled with the most economically illiterate retards out there

>>21701437
it would incentivise corporations and 1%ers to pay those that actually do the producing, the minimum wage earners, otherwise they would just stop working. capitalism runs off the backs of people that NEED to do these shit kicking jobs for their own livelihood in a system designed to keep people in these vital positions with glass ceilings where working hard will never get you a promotion, just extra whipped. if they don't succumb to economic pressure and the lower classes get pushed too far they'll be fucked so ubi is the only equitable solution.

>>21711732
>waaa race is a thing and not an asinine social construct

>>21701437
Needs to happen eventually
Unemployment is staggering progress in society, technology can or will have the ability to fill most jobs soon which will make unemployment rise . most jobs are close to adult babysitting and arn't needed but you need to work to pay bills and have a roof over your head.

The question is when, hopefully they don't take the depopulation route when they start automating big parts of society

>>21712065
Leave.

>>21712006
Why would you cut off the second half of the sentence which explains why the first half is logical?

>>21703603
based Sowell

>>21701437
What would retards like Peter Schiff think of this?

>>21712621
"retards like Peter Schiff" says poor virgin neckbeard

>>21706452
This isn't deflation this is an economic slowdown. Less people consuming. Less tax. Yangs plan is unfeasible and anyone who supports anything of the sort deserves to die.

>>21709177
Lol if you really think that you are very naive. They can't just let these monkeys riot they can't just kill the economy by forcing people not to work over the flue they can't just print more money and yet here we are.

Automation does not get rid of all jobs. Before the first industrial revolution 98% of the population worked on farms and now less than 2% does. Were all these jobs destroyed? Yes.
Did this mean we needed an extensive government redistribution program? No. They got new jobs you fucking worthless coon. People will adapt their humans, there is no need to increase taxation and further strangle the economy so that niggers can smoke an extra OZ a month.

The propensity for those poor retards to save their $1000 is near 0. They will very quickly adjust to the new income level and maintain their poverty while the rich stop participating in the economy preferring to save their money since the alternative is give to niggers this is somehow good for the economy.

Yang Gang will never get anywhere since he's a Democrat shill and apart of the corrupt DNC, but when an iteration of his program finally does manage it's way in the US has officially collapsed with the only way out being a bloody civil war.

How would UBI work if the US used hard currency backed by gold or Bitcoin? Oh it wouldn't? Interesting.

>>21713036
this

>>21712690
Says the butthurt Austrian.

>>21701437
the only accurate square is lib left and in some cases lib right.
absolute brainlet take on the other two
>>21701609
yes

>>21701609
In fact yes, most are

>>21702076
Homeless people

>>21701508
>ubi
>inflation
Thats not how it works. You don't print a penny if you implement it right. Spending goes up as does consumer demand and thus cost of goods drops. People end up better off and with less debt and all that, more able to pay bills and handle emergencies, thus promoting financial literacy. Work is now more negotiable for better conditions as people have some income to fall back on regardless means testing, thus strikes are feasible once more and productivity gap lessens as corporations feel the need to treat employees with dignity like they used to to incentivize people to work for them instead of just starting their own business to capitalize on people spending more. Local business would flourish. Small rural towns would be saved. Cities would be screwed as people save up and move to a cheaper area now that they can afford to move and all that. Its perfect

>>21702707
Get roommates.

>>21709261
The rich want it since it force funnels capital into consumer goods, increasing their capital accumulation, consolidation of economic power and they don't have to worry about its negative effects.
The poor want it because they want gibs.
The politicians want it because it gets people who want gibs to vote for them and potential campaign donations from the rich who will use it to further their economic domination.
>who'd you want to see support it then if you hate everyone in the pic?
absolutely disgusting mindset