/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>21621949
The dump will commence soon. Elections coming up and what not.

money printer go brrr

>>21621949
it hasn’t

If you cant make money during a war you just staright up cant make money

who is saying the economy recovered
fucking no one
stock bubble has nothing to do with the economy

>>21621949
>Yet somehow the economy has almost fully recovered
It hasn't at all who the fuck told you this?
T. Economist so ask away

>>21622040
This. OP is mongoloid flat footed brainlet faggot.

>economy crashed 50%
>double the amount of dollars
>"back to normal"

>>21621949
I mean if they really are printing so much money, then the stock market just can't go down.

>>21622117
>We both make a 10 dollar profit
No they don't the left guy now has to pay him 30 dollars after having put in 20 but he ends up with 40 so he doesn't gain at all.
He ends up with 10 dollars of profit after having paid 20 first.

>>21622117
>double the amount of dollars
ummmmmmmmm mmmmm

>>21622063
When should I buy bbus? help a bizrethren out

>>21621949
The stock market and the economy aren't the same retard

>>21621949
>economy almost fully recovered
Dafuq

>>21622227
Mate I'm an economist not someone with a glass ball to tell you when to invest and when to get out
Stop trying to time the market if you're in for more than 3 decades until retirement.
Take the sp500 and invest in that continuosly without taking anything out until you retire and you'll be a millionaire

>>21621994
Doesnt the economy get better with elections

Stock indexes has recovered because money has to go somewhere.
Restaurant, airline. movie theatre (etc) stocks have NOT recovered.

What has happened is people sold their airlines and put the money in Apple and Amazon. Sitting in cash is not an option.

>>21621949

the sp500 isn't the economy retard

Don't forget the Fed has been giving big corps $6,000,000/week welfare. Doesn't matter what type of company, marlboro cigarettes, nike, coca-cola, most big corps get $6,000,000/week welfare. To the total cost of like $750 billion or something.

https://www.federalreserve.gov/publications/reports-to-congress-in-response-to-covid-19.htm
See "Secondary Market Corporate Credit Facility"

So your tax dollars (money "spent" or printed by the gov is the same thing) is literally going into making cigarettes, sweat shopped shit, etc, while food bank lines are miles long, just so the stock market digits stay up.

>>21622117
Can someone please explain why this wouldn't work for a smoothbrain? No matter how many times I try to calculate it they always gain $10 each. Why wouldn't this work?

Im jusT happy I have more time to load up on oil, airline, tourism, and cruise stocks.

>>21622391
See >>21622175

>>21622303
But if you had to guess?

>>21622411
you had 52 years

>>21622457
I'm not going to start guessing

>>21622303
bro, I will unironically kill myself if I have to work minimum wage for even another decade

>>21621949
stock market is fully disconnected from the real world economy and will crash hard soon. all you need to know. prepare accordingly

>>21622504
That depends on your education and background in jobs but don't expect minimum wage jobs to be around as much as they have been in the last few years.
They'll go away as more and more business will face problems with repaying their debt if their revenues stay so low compared to the last few years.
Governmental stimulus only lasts for so long

>>21621949
>-travel industry dead
>-restaurant industry dead
>-bars dead
>-arena/stadium events dead
>-theme parks dead
>-hollywood dead
>-cruises dead
>-movie theaters dead
>-hotels dead
>-airlines dead
Are you from Minneapolis? Virginiafag here, aside from airlines and stadium events, almost everything is pretty much back to business.

>>21621949
>All those stocks are still dead
>thinks those dead stocks pumped the markets back to ath

>>21622558
>repaying their debt if their revenues stay so low compared to the last few years
Yes, this shitty, debt-leveraged system will collapse eventually. This is why the next few years are crucial for making it and becoming financially free.

Either freedom from slave labor, or reroll.

>>21622599
they are slowly going up though. will be recovered almost instantly when the vaccine hits. i don't get how it is recovering so quickly.

>>21622504
why are you working minimum wage? start an online business. figure it out.

>>21622340
This makes sense
Most of the big stock indexes are full of tech companies, which have benefitted from corona

>>21621949
Those are just serfs who were relying on trickle down economics in late stage capitalism it was very easy but now this is early stage socialism

>>21622732
Do you think they will go back to normal in 2 years? That means Around 100% in 2 years for airlines. Cruise lines have restarted outside the USA. Ccl can also net 100% in a coupe years. So people are paying now for what they see as 100% return back to normal in a few years which on average is far superior than spy Avg 8%

>>21622816
Unfortunately it seems to be the growing opinion that government regulation and governmental control of certain things is the preferred way to go, yet the opposite is true.
I really hope the US will regain its attitude towards more (free) trade and less isolationism as we've seen with trump in the past few years.
I don't expect Biden to do any better and don't expect trump to change so I hope the damage isn't irreversible by 2024

>>21622391
Guy on the right loses 10 dollars, guy on the left gains 10 dollars. The guy on the right puts twenty dollars in the box and immediately gets it back after the purchase, so that’s a net of zero. Guy on the right basically purchases the guy on the left’s 20 dollars for 30 dollars, costing him 10 dollars. Guy on the left loses 20 dollars by putting it in the box, but sells it for 30 dollars giving him 10 dollars profit.

>>21622391
Person 1: (-20) + (-30) + 40 = -10
Person 2: (-20) + 30 = +10

>>21622391

Haha, cos the dude who is buying the $40 box has actually paid $50 for it. $20 he originally put in, and then $30 after to buy the box. So he pays $50, the other dude puts in 20 and sells it for 30. Buyer loses 10, seller gains 10.

Hope this helps I got lazy at the end.

>>21622303
>just wagecuck until you are old and bald bro

There will be hell to pay if the ski lifts stay closed

>>21621949
Because the fundamentals have never changed. Yes, places have closed because there's no traffic, but everyone knows that once things open up it'll be back to what it was before Wuhan Flu hit. We haven't had an escalation of the Trade War, Britain and the EU haven't gone to the mattresses over British fishing grounds, and nobody has yet decided to dismantle the big tech trusts.

>>21622783
>just dropship bro

>>21621949
Tons of industries are actually up.

>>21623346
Do you think every job is souldraining and not rewarding for the time you put in?
Or did you just expect not to have to work to live ?

>>21623409
It takes about 10 years to establish a business. Just sayin.

>>21621949
economy is not the stock market

>>21622977
Isolationism and trade protectionism are NOT killers of an economy. They were key parts of every nation's economic toolbox for centuries and continue to be in the modern era. Just because we live in a post-Thatcher, post-Reagan world doesn't mean they were 100% right on everything. Giving up control and autarky over key industrial sectors, such as medicine, energy, or steel is simply insane given who the trade is being redirected to. And you can't explain the Chinese economic miracle without talking about how their protectionist methods grew their own home-grown industries and markets.

We need to go back.

>>21623508
Jobs numbers are up
Unemployment claims are slightly down
Easy credit is being supplied all around the first world

>>21623558
>Isolationism and trade protectionism are NOT killers of an economy.
Yes because they are low key autarchy.
The less options you have the less prosperous you are.

The "recoveries" after these stock-market crashes are always fake. Hence why there is now 40% real unemployment in the U. S. All printing money does is reinflate the asset-bubble, and enrich the top 1% again at the expense of everybody else. To reinflate the bubble again this time, and maintain it, the bankers will have to force you into negative interest-rates and literally make you a slave. (Howard Buffett's predicted all this in 1948 in his speech, "Human Freedom Rests on Gold Redeemable Money.")

>>The year is 2023
>>The governments of the world have implemented state-backed cryptos, and forced people to accept negative interest-rates
>> Precious metals have been outlawed
>> Asset-bubbles are now so large that the top 1% own 99% of the wealth
>>The real economy looks like Escape from New York, and is in a third-world state
>>Authoritarianism has overwhelmed the world
>>You can only leave your house for basic necessities, and you must carry a mask and a vaccine-card at all times

"Officer, officer! Look! That man over there is trying to transact in silver instead of FedCoin! GET HIM!"

>>21622175
Seriously?

>>21623558
>They're not killers of economies
They do slowly make you less productive than you could have been with an occasional hit or miss with an industry here and there
>China's growth is because of isolationism and protectionism
Far from it
>They were key parts of every nation's economic toolbox
Also not true, plenty of examples of countries that became rich because they adapted more free trade not less, including China.

The "recoveries" after these stock-market crashes are always fake. Hence why there is now 40% real unemployment in the U. S. All Q. E. does is reinflate the asset-bubbles, and enrich the top 1% again at the expense of everybody else. To reinflate the bubble again this time, and maintain it, the bankers will have to force us into negative interest-rates and literally make us into slaves. (Howard Buffett predicted all this in 1948 in his speech, "Human Freedom Rests on Gold Redeemable Money.") The only question is, will you accept it?

>>The year is 2023
>>The governments of the world have implemented state-backed cryptos, and forced people to accept negative interest-rates
>> Precious metals have been outlawed
>> Asset-bubbles are now so large that the top 1% own 99% of the wealth
>>The real economy looks like Escape from New York, and is in a third-world state
>>Authoritarianism has overwhelmed the world
>>You can only leave your house for basic necessities, and you must carry a mask and a vaccine-card at all times

"Officer, officer! Look! That man over there is trying to transact in silver instead of FedCoin! GET HIM!"

>>21621949
how many times do you mouth breathers need to hear this... THE STOCK MARKET IS NOT THE ECONOMY. the s&p literally tracks only the 500 strongest companies in america it doesn’t give a shit about failing restaurants or mom and pop small biz

>>21622391
the guy on the right paid $20 into the box, then paid $30 to buy the box, and wound up with a box worth $40

40 - (20 + 30) = -10

you fucking retard

>>21622117
What are these le epic 2010 memes?

>>21622369
Yup just embrace early stage socialism boys

>>21623682
>retards will still be mad at teenagers with blue hair instead of the people with power

>>21621949
>-travel industry dead
>-restaurant industry dead
>-bars dead
>-arena/stadium events dead
>-theme parks dead
>-hollywood dead
>-cruises dead
>-movie theaters dead
>-hotels dead
>-airlines dead

So nothing of value was lost?

>>21623490
Its not hard to sell stuff online and make money but it is hard to scale it up enough to actually make a living. Need atleast $75k imo to generate the right cash flow.

We exist in the future where economists have to admit gross product and jobs aren't reasonable measures of prosperity and bankers must admit, money has no value.
Plus due to Bitcoin, the banks can't orchestrate a credit crunch like they always do in times of crisis.
The cherry on top is that automation and big tech is doing the needful.

>>21621949
>yet somehow the economy has almost fully recovered... how?
No it hasn't. The economy is far more than just the stock market. And even within stocks, people are only looking at stuff like S&P500 without realizing that it's not actually a good indicator of most businesses out there.

And then of course there's money printer going brrrr, which doesn't actually solve the problem, just delays it further into the future, like using a loan to pay off a credit card bill.

>>21622063
When should I buy SPY puts?

>>21624462
It's so easy to make more money when you have money

>>21624600
When you feel you don't want to have anymore downside risk and think it's worth the premium for it

>>21621949
Only the stock market has recovered, and that's only because the elite have finally shown it to be the biggest ponzi scheme ever. The elites don't want to lose control so they manipulate the markets to look good and keep everything "normal" when in couple months people could be hanging them in the gallows.

>>21622391
0 ___ 0
-20 ___ -20
+10 ___ -50 (and box)
+10 ___ -50 (+20+20)
+10 ___ -10

>>21624589
Supposedly economists admit GDP is a shit-tier indicator, but use it anyway because it's really easy. Sort of like how BMI is commonly used to determine overweight/obesity rates even though it's dogshit and easy for fit athletes to be labeled overweight or even obese since BMI doesn't take body composition into account.

>>21621949
Stock market isnt the economy you dumbfuck. When interest rates are low, it means investing in bonds or in savings will give extremely low returns. People couldn't go outside to buy houses and many people got stimulus checks that went into the market. Same with FED just printing trillions of QE money to swap with bonds. It kinda lower the value of dollar and only thing worth investing became stocks.

>>21621949
The economy is not the stock market

>>21622391
>/pol/fag is an actual moron
Nothing new

>>21621994
I think September is gonna be a wild ride followed by the plunge near or during October
This election cycles October surprise may change society, not trying to sound over dramatic, but I think the contents of Anthony Weiners laptop will be made public

>>21624744

GDP only means anything to Keynesians. They believe that something called "animal spirits" is what keeps an economy going, hence why they "stimulate" it by printing money whenever it begins to slow down. High GDP, as being a measure of spending, they consider to be healthy. Austrians, on the other hand, believe that saving, and not spending, is what grows an economy. We also believe that, when an economy slows down, you need to leave it alone, and let it heal of its own accord, so that malinvestment will be redistributed, and bad companies will go out of business.

>>21624373
THIS

>>21624899
Such heretic ideas! >:O

>>21625170

People weren't willing to adopt Austrianism of their own volition. Now the economic collapse will cause them to adopt it by force. Unless the communists somehow manage to persuade everyone that the system fell apart because of capitalism. Then we enter into a perpetual nightmare.

>>21622303
AHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHSHAHAHHAHAHSHSHAHAHAGGA
how much will a million be worth in 30 years mr shekelstein?
>my wageslave was supposed to end by 60 but the whole market dumped and will take 10 years to recover the value you lost in a couple days
uhhh just slave away for 10 more years bro and by the time you’re 70 you can buy yourself a nice wheelchair or maybe a coffin!

>>21625788
Take a real yield of at least 5% (so already including inflation) per year and you will end up a millionaire if you put at least 20% of your net wage to your investments.

>>21621949
Printing money.
/thread

>>21621949
18 september jewish new year. Be prepared

>>21623682
no that future will never happen
such police states cost fortunes to maintain, you need a motivated and well paid police force to smash all dissent
and even the soviet union collapsed

a more realistic future is brazil turned up to 11
most people will live in absolute squalor favela's in which no central authority exists and the local warlord rules
the rich people withdraw to gated communities with shoot on sight private security
there is no police and sigint to monitor every person 24/7, they are largely free to do as they please, but the population will be controlled by poverty, because this doesn't cost anything
you'll see massive crime in the favelas but its inhabitants can't afford to even move to the next city over

>>21625985
sound like heaven

>>21624373
Its a bit hard to live it up without these things though right. What do you plan on spending your gins on eventually?

>>21621949
And of all of those I only used restaurants. Fast food drive-through at that. And those are all open.

>>21621998
This, the fed is printing money and the US treasury keeps on borrowing. We've gone from $1 trillion in debt in the 90s to $22 trillion today.
Inflation is going to hit the average person over the next 4-5 years. It's not going to be sudden, but the US economy might be the most fiscally mismanaged it's ever been, and we've cover it up by releasing GDP figures that don't correct for inflation. American economic output hasn't grown at all since 2008, but you wouldn't think that looking at official figures. China smells blood in the water and will abandon the USD as their reserve currency in 20 years.

>>21622227

Do your own research. Otherwise, look up dollar cost averaging. It's a consistent way to invest that's easy to follow and you can automate it. For example, let's say every month you buy $100 worth of a stock. When the market is up, you get less shares, and when it's down you get more. The point is that you're always buying no matter what, and in theory this should lower the volatility of your investment.

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/d/dollarcostaveraging.asp

If you're not sure about which stonks to buy, I'd recommend buying shares of ETFs because they are made up of multiple stocks.

If you're not sure about crypto, I'd just stick with Bitcoin. Be wary of pump and dump scams.

>>21621994
Money printing before the election, followed by a stop of the printer right after it?

>>21622067
Cries in being flat footed

Shit hurts yo

>>21621949
BRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRBRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRBRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRBRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRBRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRBRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRBRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRBRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRBRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRBRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRBRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRBRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRBRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRBRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRBRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRBRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRBRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRBRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRBRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRBRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRBRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRBRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRBRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRBRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRBRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRBRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRBRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRBRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRBRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRBRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRBRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRBRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

>>21625985
>no that future will never happen
>such police states cost fortunes to maintain, you need a motivated and well paid police force to smash all dissent
>and even the soviet union collapsed
I think that anon might have been spot on.
The Soviet Union, which inspired Orwell's 1984, is not the role model. Instead our model is closer to Huxley's Brave New World, which was inspired by the Technocracy movement and uses manufactured consent, medication, and other such "soft" measures to enslave people. Do not underestimate the power of social engineering, police repression might not be needed if people police themselves.

>I think that anon might have been spot on.
By that anon I meant the guy you were responding to. His authoritarian vision might be coming, and may be seen as more feasible than the outright tyrannical Soviet Union (1984 model) if it uses careful social engineering of public consent instead (Brave New World model).

>>21627775
brave new world is antiquated
it was written before current trends of automation and impoverishment
in that book there was 100% employment and literal retards were bred to perform factory labor
we have machines and code for all that shit now, technology has made a large portion of the current set of people economical useless
brave new world didn't use a police state but they had free toptier drugs for everyone and massive materialism to support the system
our current system cannot afford this, it was tried when we had money in the 90's and look how far our society has tumbled into poverty tier since
full collapse of central authority is the only possible outcome with a rework of society around centers of economic viable production similar to the collapse of the soviet union

>>21625985

The fact that people have submitted so meekly and humbly to the coronavirus tyranny, indicates to me that they may continue to do so for the foreseeable future. Hence, overwhelming force doesn't even seem particularly necessary to control them. As >>21627854 says, social pressure appears to do the majority of the work for the people in power. The authorities don't even need to use brute force most of the time. The people have already been subjected to an unthinkable amount of slavery and degeneracy, and have not lifted a finger in protest. They already accepted mass immigration to the point of extinction, transgender children, the socialist welfare state, perpetual wars in the Middle East, the death of true culture, bans on free speech, and all the rest of it.

Although, in a way, what you say isn't entirely different from what I say. As a joke, I said that the future would look like Escape from New York. In that film, people on Manhatten Island are quarantined together, and go about and do exactly as they please as well, roving about in gangs, and living in a state of utter crime and hell. Meanwhile, mainstream America has become an authoritarian police-state.