/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>2130078
HMRC has a calculator. Check their website. The last government nicely introduced 11k capital gains allowance so unless you've profited over that you should be okay.

>>2130084
Can we call this gambling gains?

>>2130125
I guess, I think it all falls under gambling/speculative gains kind of income

>>2130084
Does this mean that if I convert 10k worth of bitcoin into pounds on an exchange and transfer that to my bank account, then that would be within my capital gains allowance ?

Does that mean I pay no tax on it?

Thank you for answering my questions.

guys?

Read hmrc guidance on crypto. They don't know.

>>2130078
WHY THE FUCK ARE YOU EVEN TRYING TO PAY TAX YOU TOTAL KEK. WHY ARE YOU EVEN THINKING ABOUT THIS. JUST FUCKING HIDE IT AND DONT PAY OMG.

>>2130335
Because I am a law abidding citizen, fuck you , fucking leech

>>2130357

This.

Holy shit what is wrong with you newcoiners?! These are the timid cucks who are scared daddy government will pry open their arsehole if they don't pay a single penny of tax.

Just fuck off.

>>2130370
I hope you let Mohammad have a go with your wife after you've paid his rent for the year.

Sorry I got angry, I got offended.

I asked a specific question and the last thing I want is some fucking teenager derailing the conversation.

Anyway Im off to eat a hamburger, live long and prosper guys.

>>2130370
Read the fucking guidance idiot. You're assuming there is tax to pay.

There is no tax to pay dumbass

>>2130400
I just read the guidance!!

WTF it says bitcoin are not taxed VAT !? Is this true???

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/revenue-and-customs-brief-9-2014-bitcoin-and-other-cryptocurrencies/revenue-and-customs-brief-9-2014-bitcoin-and-other-cryptocurrencies

>>2130410


Holy shit balls! That is great news!


Ok last question, before I climax.

Has anyone here actually paid 5 BTC into their bank ? Do I need to talk to them and stuff before hand?

Please only answer if you are based in the UK and have actually done this.

>>2130449
You mean 5BTC's worth of money? Just keep individual deposits into your bank under 10k and they won't look into it.

>>2130449
Ask you financial advisor.
Everyone could just talk shit all day but I would fuck around with the HMRC.

where do I get a financial advisor from? Do I ask my bank or my accountants?

Send a letter to HMRC asking for advice, they will escalate the letter and let you know, most likely scenario is you will be viewed as receiving gambling profits unless you buy as a company/sole trader. Other scenario is if you take tens of thousands out and then they may want you to pay capital gains.

Trust me lads, it's not worth trying to get away with it. HMRC have literally tens of thousands of compliance officers working on tax evasion/avoidance. They will either completely miss you or catch you and come down hard.

Also, if they do miss you now, they might catch you any time in the next 5/6 years.

Bottom line is, if you've got 10 000 + in your bank account that's unaccounted for tax wise, HMRC software will take a gigantic shit on you.

t.used to work for HMRC

>>2130335
>This

Even our own HMRC Government don't understand crypto. We're golden lads - no tax for us

>mfw HMRC are /nocoiners/

>>2130583
No just stop being a pussy. It is not subject to tax.

>Europe's highest court has declared that Bitcoin is exempt from VAT, giving a huge boost to its potential as a rival to established currencies.

>Purchasing and selling Bitcoin must not incur the sales tax, the European Court of Justice said, declaring that Bitcoin transactions are similar in nature to those of other "currency, bank notes and coins used as legal tender".

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/news/11948222/Bitcoin-is-tax-free-European-court-rules.html

>>2130583
No just stop being a pussy. It is not subject to tax.

>Bitcoin is tax-free, European court rules
>Purchasing virtual currency does not incur sales tax, European Court of Justice declares

>Europe's highest court has declared that Bitcoin is exempt from VAT, giving a huge boost to its potential as a rival to established currencies.

>Purchasing and selling Bitcoin must not incur the sales tax, the European Court of Justice said, declaring that Bitcoin transactions are similar in nature to those of other "currency, bank notes and coins used as legal tender".

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/news/11948222/Bitcoin-is-tax-free-European-court-rules.html

>>2130690
>European Court

>>2130690

>brexit

>>2130711
Which we're still under

>>2130722
And do you have any evidence to suggest the tax status of Bitcoin has changed since we voted to leave?

>>2130709
That's VAT dingus, what about capital gains and income tax

>>2130754
It's tax free across the board dingus, can you find anything with suggests otherwise dingus?

Bitcoin is no capital gains according to HMRC

And you're telling me I have I write a letter otherwise software will shit on me ?

Wtf ?

>>2130763
Yes, it's obvious, capital gains applies to all appreciating assets.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/revenue-and-customs-brief-9-2014-bitcoin-and-other-cryptocurrencies/revenue-and-customs-brief-9-2014-bitcoin-and-other-cryptocurrencies

It doesn't apply if the transactions are considered highly speculative, e.g. in the case of gambling. Otherwise it does.

>>2131077
>>2130763
>>2130735
>>2130763
>>2130811
>>2130709

You guys are FUCKING idiots

I promise I used to work for HMRC and they WILL find out if you store it in a bank account

It CLEARLY fucking says on the GOV website that it is calculated on a case by case basis. That means you are statutorily obliged to make HMRC aware of your crypto earnings. Even if they're counted as gambling profits, you are still OBLIGED to inform HMRC

>>2131149
Yeah? That's what I'm saying.

Now if you work for HMRC you can tell us....if you declare them as gambling winnings, do they have the power to look at your transactions on the exchange or blockchain, or will they just take your word for it?

>>2131181
>>2131149
And would trading coins fall under speculative/gambling transactions?

>>2131198
Its all fucking speculation.

>>2131216
So is buying a house in a property boom, but you still pay capital gains. So I mean for tax purposes, would trading coins count as speculation and incur tax on gambling winnings rather than CT?

>>2130125
no.

Gains or losses on bitcoin or other cryptocurrencies are chargeable or allowable for capital gains tax, if they accrue to an individual and are not covered by trading profit rules. For companies, such gains are chargeable to corporation tax if they accrue to the company and are not covered by loan relationship or trading rules. If a transaction is considered speculative, it may not be liable to tax at all.

This is all rather pleasantly straightforward, although obtaining suitable valuations of bitcoins in relation to transactions may be a chore. There are no complicated new rules to learn and HMRC has basically accepted it at face value as a currency.

>>2131231
Not sure my good man.
Im in this thread for the same reason as you, been reading the .gov page about Cryptocurrency and tax and cant make heads nor tails out of it.

Its left in such a grey area they can pretty much do what they want and justify it by pointing to their vague ass rules.

How about here in the US? Say I cashed out around $300k USD worth of BTC or ETH, would I have to pay tax? I heard only a very small percent of owners opted to pay tax on BTC in the past few years.

>>2131281
i feel sorry for your lots
US tax system seems like hell.

>>2131289
If you're from the UK then you have no room to talk considering your tax-rate is something ridiculous like %45

>>2131304
More to do with the extent at which the IRS tends to chase you guys all around the world.

>>2131312
This I agree with. Fuck the IRS.

>>2131261
Ok but if your gains in crypto DID occur from gambling with crypto then it would incur tax on gambling winnings, right? So how much power does HMRC have to investigate your blockchain transactions to see if you actually won through gambling? What if the exchange you use is in a different jurisdiction?

Couldn't you simply say that you made gains from gambling crypto and that's that?

>>2131349
with that logic you could just yolo on any share and say it was gamblings.

and if you can avoid a hmrc investigation, trust me, you want to avoid it. from mates who have had it done they say its fucking horrible.

>>2131349
Gambling or betting wins are not taxable.

>>2131390
Yeah I know but that's my question...does HMRC have the power to investigate transactions on an exchange which is in another jurisdiction? I.e. if you didn't actually gamble but rather just had Ripple at the right time.

>>2131377
Difference being that the transfer of ownership of shares is traceable but transferring, say, Monero isn't. But makes sense anyway, thanks.

>>2131400
every country has a law, that if you are unable to explain how you got the money, and are able to prove it, you go to jail or pay a shit ton if fines.

>>2131417
Panamanian bank accounts for crypto NEETs when

>>2131417
What if I buy gold with my Bitcoin and then sell it for cash? Could that be a way of legal tax avoidance?

>>2131435
setting that all up would be VERY expensive and not worth unless your making millions.

>ever paying fucking tax on crypto when you can do exchanges in person/cash or bank transfers that can't even be tracked/proven that you traded crypto
>ever cashing out in the first place in the current year
Britcucks need to end themselves

>>2131596
If banks or revenue find 10s or 100s of k's suddenly transferred to your bank account then questions are going to be asked

>>2131596
>bank transfers that can't even be tracked/proven that you traded crypto
Explain how?

"suitable valuations of bitcoins in relation to transactions may be a chore. "

What does this mean ?


Fuuuuuck

So the hmrc site says I don't have to pay as a personal trader any capital gains on bitcoins ?


Finally how do I find proof I bought some btc off an exchange 5 years ago ? Is this what they need /want ?

>>2131477
Can anyone answer this?

>>2131643
You'd still be obligated to pay any tax due, but if you could keep all of your transactions 'black market' then would they find out? Maybe not? It doesn't diminish your obligations though.

Other question is can you easily offload gold for the market price? Probably not.

>>2131640
I don't think as a personal trader your gains are eligible fot CTG since they should count as gambling winnings... but others here may tell you different. Either way you have a yearly threshold of 11.3k tax-free gains in the UK so if it's within that figure you won't have to

>>2131669
*CGT

>>2131664
But I wouldn't have to pay tax on the Bitcoin I'd used to purchase the gold with right? If I'd earned it as a personal trader, since it would count as gambling winnings? I'd only have to pay tax on the cash I got from selling the gold?

What's to stop us from saying we won it all on btc dice or edgeless casino and then paying nothing and pissing on the Queen's shoes?

>>2131633
Mate, you do fucking realise if a UK bank found out you sent or received money for crypto they would close your account, right? Crypto trading is not illegal here but the banks still don't allow it, if you've been sending bank transfers you're already breaching their ToS. This at least goes for major banks, HSBC, NatWest, Barclays, don't know about meme banks.
>>2131624
Well you shouldn't be stupid enough to transfer large amounts like that anyway, as that might definitely be subjected to tax investigations.

>>2131854
No idea why you decided to spaz out on me... I was only asking how to do bank transfers that can't be tracked/proven you traded crypto...

>>2131900
>spaz
Fuck off newfag, this is where my advice ends. Good luck fucker.

>>2131900
Shit """advice""". Bye spaz.

>>2131913
Shit """advice""". Bye spaz.

OK so in summary.

In the UK
1) No Capital Gains or VAT to bay on bitcoin
2) Banks may still hate you and close account for no reason

Can anyone recommend a bank that they have used to deposit their gains?

>>2132598
No VAT but very possibly capital gains tax

>>2132598
Tagging onto this, when anyone opened a EUR account with a bank in the UK (e.g. for Kraken deposits), did you tell the bank you intend to use it for trading cryptos?