/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>20941707
how does 3M sound?

>>20941734
That sounds comfy

>>20941707
if you only have 1 BTC, buy cheap drugs off one of the dark markets and sell them for 3x profits. someone I know that definitely isnt me did that and made more in 1 year than they did working in 4

>>20941707
Depends on how long you can wait
Can you wait 10 years?

>>20941707
I'm a burger and a fan of lucozade. It was kind of a treat every time I went over to England every few years. Then a few months ago I found out the fucking pajeet convenience store literally on my block sells it.

No, buy XRP or die a poorfag

>>20941707
I miss when I used to do this stuff. Just hang out and be a nuisance in public. I wish I was 13 again.

>>20941785
I suppose so. I don't have anything better to do that wait
>>20941753
No drugs are degenerate

>>20941707

I'm going to give you the low-down, Anon.

Right now, Bitcoin is sitting at approximately 5/6th the scarcity of gold, judging from the stock-to-flow ratio. Currently gold's marketcap is $9-10 trillion and rising. Bitcoin's is hovering around $200 billion.

That's a lot of room for Bitcoin to rise. That means we could plausibly see 200-400k Bitcoin -- this cycle alone.

But that's only the beginning. Because every four years, Bitcoin has another halving that cuts its inflation rate. This effectively DOUBLES its stock-to-flow ratio.

This means that in the year 2024, Bitcoin will be TWICE as scarce as gold, with twice the stock-to-flow. This would potentially bring it into the million-dollar-per-coin range.

And it keeps going, Anon. In 2028, Bitcoin will be FOUR TIMES as scarce as gold. In 2032, it will be EIGHT TIMES as scarce.

So yes. One Bitcoin is all anyone on earth could ever or would ever need. The only question is how long you're able to wait. Do you want to sell in this bull market and buy even more Bitcoin at the bottom of the next bear? You can do that. Do you want to hang on to your Bitcoin and wait for the million-dollar valuation in 2025? You can do that too.

But whatever you do, you never EVER sell all of your Bitcoin. It's the scarcest financial asset in human history, and as long as you have ONE, you will make it.

>>20942161
Thank you mr plantation owner!
Very cool

>>20941707
i hope so but i got 2 just in case

>>20942161
Why is scarce good?

I have an extremely finite supply of hairs on my nuts. Granted, they are very hairy but relatively they are very scarce; much more scarce than bitcoin. Does the scarcity alone make my nut hairs more valuable than bitcoin?

>>20942238
scarcity is a fundamental property of good money

>>20942275
>litecoin
>bitcoin cash
>bitcoinSV

so these are all good money? They are forks of bitcoin. They are all scarce, and they are all bitcoin.

>>20942275
Also, are my nut hairs good money, due to their scarcity?

No, anon.
You need at least one single Stakenet MN to make it.

>>20942238
It's a shitty crypto, but at the very least, Bitcoin is a collector's item. Which means some people will always want to have some as a matter of pride. It's sort of like investing in art. Maybe you should crochet your pubes into something pretty.

>>20942341
>>20942361
Sir, I would like to buy three (3) of your nut hairs

>>20942384
yeah I can understand bitcoin as a collectors item since it was the first cryptocurrency but I find the argument that its scarcity is what makes it valuable is kind of silly.

>>20942161
how low do you think we will see it go at bottom of next bear? if 1 is enough, 2 should be plenty.

>>20941753
Who do you sell them to?

>>20942341
they are but they are not as widely known therefore the acceptability (another fundamental property) declines.
>>20942361
you nut hairs are not good money for a host of reasons that's just common sense, but i will say they're not fungible meaning you would need to cut a single hair into 100 or so pieces and these pieces would be exceedingly difficult to store and manage and you cant send them over the internet either.

>>20941707
Yes, and if I get a chance in moment I will post in this thread telling you why

>>20942458
you really dont understand economics then but okay.

>>20942361
>your nut hairs can be counterfeited
>your nut hairs decompose quickly
>your nut hairs aren’t fungible (each one is unique)
>your nut hairs can’t be transacted conveniently and reliably

I mean, I could go on.

>>20942238

1. Digital scarcity is a discovery that cannot be re-discovered. A million clones could be created of Bitcoin, systemically identical, but none of them ARE Bitcoin. Why? Because:

2. Bitcoin is the most secure chain with the greatest hashrate. The moment this is no longer true is the moment it fails, and the entire crypto space collapses.

So yes, demand is the other side of the equation when it comes to scarcity, but no other store-of-value crypto asset will ever accumulate the demand to match Bitcoin's. Read The Bitcoin Standard to help wrap your head around it. Once it clicks, you'll have the "a-ha!" moment.

>>20942494
>they're not fungible meaning you would need to cut a single hair into 100 or so pieces and these pieces would be exceedingly difficult

That’s divisible, not fungible. Fungible is the fact that each hair is as unique as a precious snowflake and therefore can’t be valued equally

>>20942615

>>20942473

If we match the previous two cycles, we'll see an 80-85% decline from the top. Volatility may decrease significantly with institutional involvement though, so I'm not willing to place bets. I am confident the minimum retracement will be -50% however, and I'll be starting my buy orders at that level and laddering buys as it descends. Even the stock market crashes 50% after bubbles, so this is a solid place to start the DCA back in.

And yes, two Bitcoin will be godlike in five years.

>>20942458
If scarcity wasn't important, gold wouldnt be $2000/toz. Its industrial value is nowhere close to that, definitely under $100/toz. It is a store of value because it has been deemed so. It's the same idea with Bitcoin. Yeah it doesn't serve have any really valuable utility, but a lot of money is parked into it and it has the best 10 year return of any asset in history. It's that idea combined with the collector's value idea that will keep it going as a safe haven asset.

7 BTC club. Lets go

1/2

Comparing the mass of all sand on earth to the supply of bitcoin, gives you pic related. The sand cube is accurate to loose sand and the black figure is a rough shape of a human 1.75m tall. If you have an appreciation for bitcoin you will have an appreciation for this.

>>20942161
Based Bitcoin Standard reader

2/2

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Controlled_supply

If you take a look at the controlled supply, you can see in Reward Era 12 the BTC per block will be 0.02441406 BTC. Currently we are in Reward Era 4. The reward is 6.25 BTC per block. Pic related shows you 6.25 BTC in comparison to 0.02441406 BTC, which is the cube of sand in front of the human figure.

>>20942675
thanks anon

>>20942934
>>20942954
Thanks for this, anon

>>20942598
OK say bitcoin gets 51% attacked, again. This time when it forks, both forks are identical. You have mining pool A and mining pool B. Both are claiming their fork of bitcoin is the real bitcoin. Which mining pool do you go with?

Also china controls the hashrate and the only reason they are even maintaining the network in the first place is because they are making a profit mining coins. The moment bitcoin falls below 6k it becomes unprofitable to mine. What do you think will happen then? The entire network collapses. Whatever store of value you had, gone.

Why do you think the entire crypto space relies on bitcoin? do you honestly think the entire crypto space will collapse if bitcoin collapses? Why do you think that?

>>20942693
Gold is gold. I don't know where you are deriving your figures from.

And its also isn't a very safe haven considering the moment it becomes unprofitable for miners (below 6k) the entire network shuts off. Miners go to whatever crypto makes them money, there is no attachment to bitcoin. Most of them will turn to server farms and host stakable coins like ADA.

>>20942161
Fucking based. Too many people on this board gloss over BTC, the king, in hopes of a 10x overnight.

>>20942238
I always see this argument, I'll humor it.

That's not provable scarcity.
That's what bitcoin solved, provable scarcity of a digital asset.

Yours can easily be counterfeited, they can substitute other hairs. If one can afford to DNA test it to prove authenticity, it is still counterfeitable by using hairs from your head, armpits, legs, etc. No one can counterfeit bitcoin, even forks are easily distinguishable. Gold is harder to verify even, with advanced counterfeiting methods, like tungsten usage, requiring advanced specialized tools just to verify authenticity.

There is no fixed supply. Just like fiat which can be printed, you can always grow more of it, unlike bitcoin, where code is law, and 21 million is the limit. This is an even better scarce supply proposition that gold's, whose scarcity can be threatened by asteroid mining (which is of course arguably many decades away).

Valuability itself is derived from both demand and supply. Bitcoins halving schedule and fixed 21m supply scarcity ensures continually decreasing supply. The order books on exchanges have hundreds of millions of dollars on the buy side, that is excluding money from people who are market buying instead of using limit orders, or using other methods to buy that won't show up in order books (like on coinbase, cashapp, or p2p like localbitcoins, as well as OTC). And there are hidden orders as well.

I don't think anyone actually wants to buy your incel virgin nut hairs, there's zero demand, so it's not valuable at all.

I haven't even discussed the special capabilities of bitcoin being able to be sent anywhere in the world, or stored in your mind, or having the highest hashrate etc.

>>20942954
>Reward Era 12
I'm bullish long-term, but how far away is that?
I don't really want to look at valuations that will come to fruition when I'm an old wrinkly man.

>>20943702
whats the difference between the different bitcoin forks if they all have the same provable scarcity? Forks aren't counterfeit, they are literally bitcoin with different mining pools.

Why is a high hashrate good? that just means they are consuming vast amounts of resources to run the network. Not only that but its using all those resources crunching useless math. If/when bitcoin goes below 6k, then the entire network collapses. Once it halves again if it goes below 12k it collapses. You are lauding the hashrate like its a good thing when its actually a giant negative.

what about the absurd transactions times?

What about the high fees?

There's a reason why the last bullrun stopped. Transactions fees got to $50 and transaction times got to 3 days. how is that feasible for money?

stored in your mind? What are you even talking about?

>>20942238
Why do people want gold? It's literally good for nothing but they just want it because it's scarce and can't be infinitely fabricated like, say, money. Bitcoin is internet gold. Even if it won't ever be good for anything people will want it because there can only be 21 million bitcoins in existence ever.

>>20943783
about 600 years from now.... jk
It's about 8 x 4 years, 32 years from now

>>20941753
>order illegal drugs
>go to jail
Woooooow

>>20944002
Are you fucking retarded? The only reason you are typing this right now is because your CPU is made with gold. bitcoin literally doesn't exist without gold.

>Was supposed to get an internship this summer
>got fucked by Corona
>zero disposable income (college student)

>>20942161
>based helpful anon.

it’s a finite asset that represents the infinite energy arbitrage of the universe. never own less than one bitcoin. generational, generational wealth.

If bitcoin has no where to prevent its scarcity from increasing in perpetuity then it will be abandoned as an asset. The only reason it's so valued right now is that 99% of people who buy it dont understand. It's a mania. All crypto is.

>>20944037
>inb4 "this isn't gold retard do you even know what color gold is???"

>>20943038
You can't 51% it costs too much money and electricity to be feasible

>>20944037
Gold's value is not tied to it's industrial utility. If it was, silver would be just as valuable. Gold is valuable because it has been selected by the human consciousness as an effective store of value due to its relative scarcity. Bitcoin is just an evolution of that same concept.

>>20942934
there is definitely much more sand than that on earth if the black figure is the size of a human
there's more sand on a single beach than in that picture

>>20944302
i feel the picture was not adequately explained but i think what it is showing it the ratio of sand per person on Earth

>>20944183
But it already fucking happened like 4 or 5 times

Monero is better at provacy.
Many coins are better at transaction speed.
Ampleforth has better economics with it's inflation and deflation.
Paxos has actual physical assets backing it.

Bitcoin is obsolete in every aspect now.

>>20944332
>>20944332
I explained it much better in my OP but didn't want to copy it all across. It's the amount of sand on Earth per bitcoin essentially.

OP: >>20818796

>>20941707
No, don't believe the bag holders here. It's not going to 10x, 100x or 1000x any in the foreseeable future (next 5 years). DYOR and take that money and put it on something that actually has 10/100x potential.

>>20944482
buddy i gotta tell you obsolescence means no longer used or produced but bitcoin is by far more used than any other crypto and more resources go towards its production that entire industries, much less alt coins. so your statement is flat-out false

>>20944665
if it has 10/100x potential it has -90/99% potential that comes with it so please be advised that you are suggesting that OP gamble,essentially

>>20942934
>Comparing the mass of all sand on earth to the supply of bitcoin

>>20941707
Kinda, but it'd be cool if you had a way to regularly acquire more. You know like an income or something

>>20944691
Radios were more widely used than televisions once

>>20944758
>an income or something

>>20944426
No it hasn’t. Maybe to Bitcoin Gold, but not BTC.

>>20943038

>This time when it forks, both forks are identical.

There's no reason to fork if both chains are identical. You're just risking the loss of massive amounts of money for no potential gain. If you want to try to change the protocol, then you fork and see if you can get the majority to come with you. If you can't, your chain is not Bitcoin, and it fails as did BCH. Bitcoin is highly resistant to change -- this is a hugely important feature.

>The moment bitcoin falls below 6k it becomes unprofitable to mine.

I've been hearing some variation of this for years. I hate to be the one to inform you, since you're apparently unaware, but Bitcoin will never drop below 6k again. Even if it did -- and it won't -- a certain percentage of miners will always mine at a loss if they believe the potential for massive gains down the line remains. And if even they drop out, the difficulty plummets dramatically, rendering it cheaper to mine and drawing miners back in. This is probably Bitcoin's most important innovation. Anyone talking about "miner capitulation" does not understand how Bitcoin actually works. Look up a hashrate/difficulty chart to witness the beauty of it.

By the way, Bitcoin collapsed to 4k during the corona panic. It sprung back spry as ever. You cannot kill it.

>Why do you think the entire crypto space relies on bitcoin? do you honestly think the entire crypto space will collapse if bitcoin collapses? Why do you think that?

Considering the entire space follows its price action, I'd say that's a pretty big indicator. If trust in Bitcoin disappears that casts a shadow on every cryptocurrency, no doubt about it. In periods of flagging faith -- the bear markets -- every coin and token drops with BTC. Furthermore Bitcoin's demise would open a giant vacuum in the space -- could another currency ever again be regarded as a store-of-value? Are cryptos truly just the Tulip bubble all over again? Any altcoin enthusiast wishing for Bitcoin's defeat is suicidal.

>>20943947
>whats the difference between the different bitcoin forks if they all have the same provable scarcity?
- Liquidity. You can't reliably store tens or hundreds of millions in other coins because their order books don't be able to handle it. You can never cash out without dumping those to zero.

I see bitcoin as a global experiment on whether a digital asset can be a store-of-value or not, like gold is. I'm bullish long-term, but unlike other permabulls, I'm not closed to the idea that it can fail.

But I'm convinced it can't be flipped by an altcoin, otherwise it can never be a store-of-value. Because that will prove that it is obsoletable tech (like Friendster, Myspace, VHS, Betamax etc), and not unobsoletable money like gold. Institutional investors and billionaires etc. will never store their value in crypto if the biggest one has shown it can fail.

>Why is a high hashrate good?
Security.
See bcash. The segwit transactions were not supported in that chain and can be redeemed by anyone. Some unknown party redeemed it. So what did the majority miners do? 51% attack the chain, remove their transactions, and claim the coins for themselves.

This is not possible on BTC. On other chains, you can censor transactions or addresses. This is impossible with BTC's high hashrate.

>what about the absurd transactions times?
>
>What about the high fees?
I agree this is a problem.
But this has only proven one thing.
Blockchain cannot scale globally.
Satoshi's creation was incomplete.

Imagine if a coin became adopted globally.
EVERYTHING is a transaction. Giving allowance to your kid? That's a transaction. Each payment for a viewed ad? Transaction. This will be BILLIONS of transactions daily, it cannot scale on chain.

Only a 2nd later would suffice.
Lightning is trying, but imo it's not there yet.
Nothing is, in my opinion.

But as digital gold, not money, Bitcoin is unbeatable.

>stored in your mind? What are you even talking about?
You can memorize seed words.

>>20945967
>You can memorize seed words.
No way, I don't believe you
Prove it by typing it out here without looking it up

>>20944037
Are you saying that throughout history gold was valued because people made computers with it? You are literally retarded. Yes gold is coincidentally used for some computer parts but that's not why people treasure it.

>>20941820
BASED

>>20941707

>>20942384

>>20942161
I’m speculating on ethereum for the near future and Bitcoin for the next run up. The fundamentals, usage and upcoming deflationary method will make eth a lot more irresistible and rare then BTC in the short term.