/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>20468677
Why does a board hate a microcomputer that "holds" onto your finances and plugs into a computer where it can execute anything it wants and no one knows what runs under the hood?

Hmmm.

>>20468677
I use a paper wallet but will probably back up my seed phrase on metal or something soon to be safe.
I don’t have anything against hardware wallets and was considering one, but what if it breaks some how? Are you fucked?

>>20468699
Centralized companies that you can sue if there are running malicious activities desu.
Also would be bankrupt the company for bad reputation build if they screw there customers.

>>20468721
What even is a paper wallet? Just having your seed phrases, etc., written down?

>>20468721
No you have a seed phrase to recover with. Just need to input it into a new ledger if it were to somehow break. You are fucked if your seed phrase goes missing and your ledger has broke

>>20468721
Don't be a fucking moron, just use paper wallets.

Jesus christ, if you're that paranoid encrypt them with a passphrase that's burned into your brain stem and print out 3-4 in different locations in places no one will ever find them. Even if they do, they would never know what they are or how to use them anyways.

>>20468721
No you still have your 24 seed on a paper or metal thing. to restore your funds.

>>20468721
I've always considered a hardware wallet/paper wallet the same thing. you can restore the hardware wallet using a seed phrase, so if your nano gets destroyed you can just order a new one and back it up.

>>20468721
You generate a 24 word seed phrase which you keep safely hidden and allows you to recover the wallet, should you lose the device or break it.

>>20468744
>Centralized companies based in kekistan that you can "sue" because you can prove their at fault.. Probably want to read the T's and C's you agree to when you open the box.

>>20468748
holy fuck bros these are some serious LINK sell signals

>holding actual buttcorns
>not trading buttcorn futures on CBOE

You guys are retard. Just use MEWConnect, encrypt your seeds and save it. Nobody will know what it is.

>>20468744
Ledger is in France and The other in the US.
Dont buy from scam countries desu.

Because this board is poor as fuck, they can't be bothered buying a 50 dollar device to store their 2k worth of crypto.

>>20468788
1 - Ledger is in France.
2 - Trezor is in the US.

Those can be seud desu.

dont buy from Chink countries your fine.

>>20468866
I actually didn't buy a ledger until my balance hit $50k last year

Felt like a retard sitting on 10-30k with no ledger, but i promised myself i wouldnt wait till 6 figs to do it, and settled on halfway there
helps me sleep at night these days, since its a lot more now

>>20468919
Ledger is the way to go, and the Ledger Manager software is good. If you buy an OTG cable (adapter to micro USB) you can use it with the Android app. Not with iOS yet, though.

>>20468778
That’s what I thought, thanks.

>>20468982
I've heard it can only store like 2 or 3 cryptos usually. Doesn't seem to reliable or usable.

>>20468677
I've held high 6 figures on Binance, don't they only move a small amount to their hot exchange wallet while the rest is in cold storage?
Their hot exchange wallets are fully insured. I trust them to be better at hack protection than myself.

>>20469444
I had this problem with the old Ledger Nano S but it doesn’t seem to be an issue with the new X model.

>>20469545
>buy the more expensive model
Shill fuck.

>>20468677
Hardware wallets all have backdoors

>>20469631
>what is open source trezor

>>20469444
it can only hold 3-4 different crypto wallets at a time (only like 160kb storage on it), but you can delete and reinstall different wallets at any time. you won't lose anything if you delete a wallet that has something in it. still a pain though

>>20468762
>paper wallets
it's far more moronic to have paper wallets

>>20468677
It’s thieves fudding hw wallets so that more people are vulnerable to their attacks.

>>20468982
The Nano X can attach via Bluetooth to both android and iOS.

>>20469444
Depends on the crypto. If you get the Nano S, you can fit 3-4 depending on the size of the app. You get 40kb to work with, and the major ones are 10kb, but some are 12kb.

If you get the Nano X, which I have now, you get much more space for the apps. It can fit 20 at a time.

Just remember that the Ethereum app itself is only 10k and it covers all the ERC20 tokens. So you don’t need a separate app for each token. So if your portfolio is all BTC and ETH and ERC20 tokens, then just the BTC and ETH app covers all of it and a Nano S will suffice.

But I like the Bluetooth functionality of the Nano X and being able to transact on my phone without a cable. To me, it’s worth the extra money. But I have my old Nano S as a backup.

Can't believe there are still retards that think the only point of a hardware wallet is to store your private keys.

>>20469925
I feel a lot more secure transacting. It’s fairly easy to use and doesn’t add too much extra effort. But the peace of mind is worth it.

>>20469908
Oh so anything on ETH is covered in that one, like RSR etc. BTC is about 10kb as well? What about XRP, XSN and BAT?

What’s the best app wallet? Or is that a no go?

>>20468677
Ledger allows firmware updates , they sign these updates with a master key.
This is essentially all that is standing in between criminals and the billions in funds stored on these wallets. A French office building and zero physical security.
You could simply kidnap one of their employees family members or Rob it like a bank and push a 0 day firmware update from their servers that would send all the master keys to a central server to drain everything.

Nothing beats knowing your own seed/key and never showing it to anyone. This goes for big stack cold holds.
For your daily transactional trash these are fine.

>>20468677
>be safer, don’t put your money in Apple computers
>put all your money in a computer of a new company nobody ever heard of
Anon, I...

>>20468699
Trezor is open source

>>20470186
No one can make a single transaction without physically pressing the keys on your Ledger dummy.

>>20468771
Correct, but you don’t need to use the seed phrases to move funds to and from your ledger which essentially serves as an easy-to-use unhackable, fully private, and portable bank account. Don’t need to carry seed phrase with you to access funds, just hardware device, PIN, and ledger live app

>>20470078
Cringe. Use google.

>>20468875
Both of those wallets have chink chips in them

>>20468677
Just bought a Ledger X which comes with an S. I haven't used it yet but I think it's a lot safer than anything else at this point. Hardest point is just keeping the seed phrase safe and making sure you're sending everything to the right addresses

>>20468875
I thought trezor is from Eastern Europe?

just use a key in metamask? Imagine having a wallet that screams "HACK ME / STEAL ME" with a fucking ledger logo on it

I have an airgapped old laptop for creating signatures from private keys, and then I release the signatures on another machine to the network. You don't need hardware wallets. AES256 is free with countless implementations.

>>20468677
Because a paper wallet + offline clean raspi is the master race combo

>>20470186


This anon knows what he's saying.

Get a cold wallet (paper), memorize the 12 word mnemonic and call it a day.

There is nothing better than simply memorization. Also get one of the LG or Samsung phones with Secure Boot or encrypted USB, back it up there, put it in a safe .

>>20468778
so don't keep a paper wallet

but do keep a pass phrase on paper?

>>20471051

You really don’t NEED to memorize all 12.

Pick one word at random and remember that and it’s position in sequence.

Much easier to remember 2 Rainbow or 6 Sleeve than any entire 12 word phrase and it’s effectively just as good.

>>20468677
>Is there a reason why this board hates hardware wallets
coronal mass ejections

>>20471115
Explain for a retard how this works

>>20471051
>>20471115
Human memory is extremely fragile, malleable and changeable. Would not advise.

>>20468721
Its backed up with a seed phrase. Hardware wallets are only safer than paper wallets and exchanges if you are actively moving funds with them. It protects your private key from getting keyloggered and allows you to keep your crypto in a wallet to avoid exchange hacks. If all you are going to do is hodl, paper wallets are safer until the moment you are required to type in your private key.

>>20468761
if you need a seed phrase then just use a paper wallet. Unless you want to check thay your 0.22 btc is still 0.22 btc every day

>>20471266

Keep a physical copy of the other 12 rewards on something durable. Engrave it on a metal plaque on the wall if you want. Remove a random word from the sequence and memorize it’s position and the word.

Even if someone stole your 11 other words it would take a quantum computer to guess which word and position you took the “12th” from.

Holy shit bros. I just realized "Trezor" sounds like "Treasure".

is there an electrum like equivalent for erc-20 token walets? or do you have to have a ledger to recover your wallet

>>20471433
yeah in french the pronounciation of "trezor" is the same as "trésor" (=treasure)

Quick rundown on how to not get fucked over by an exchange or hacked? I don't have two weeks to figure out how to fucking store my magic internet tokens securely.

>>20469516
Keeping any significant amount on exchanges for an extended period of time is never a good idea, anon. Plenty of big exchanges have been 'hacked'..

>>20470186
>>20471051
>>20471115
Ok. So how do I even create a wallet? Is there a script I run or website? I'm guessing I would just need an Ethereum wallet since 90% of the crypto I hold are ERC-20.

>>20471468
>erc-20 token walets
all eth wallets are erc-20 wallets but hardware wallets won't support display of most tokens

>>20471546
Binance is relatively safe because if they jeeted the Chinese gov would have them executed

>>20471651
True, CZ would probably get killed by someone before the government even got to him.

>>20470186
Typing your seed phrase into your computer everytime you want to move fund from the account is much less safe than using a hardware wallet with a secure element from which the signature is broadcast.

Also they don't really push firmware updates like they throw candies and without having a dozen of people reviewing the code. I would prefer if the firmware was open source desu but I consider it still more secure than having to import the wallet on my computer and more convenient than having an airgapped machine.

Someone please explain what a paper wallet is and how to use it, google doesn't help and I am retard

>>20471624
sry, than i guess my question is is there an electrum like equivilant where i can send and receive funds fro an eth wallet?

>>20471730
I think you generate a wallet then store the private key and seed phrase on a literal piece of paper.

>>20471730
The pajeets who are fussing hardware wallets are either too dumb to realize the advantage of these hardware wallets is that you don't have to expose your private key every time you want to sign a transaction... If you use a paper wallet it would either be extremely tedious to make a transaction or you would have massive security holes
Imagine being unable to afford a 50$ ledger

>>20469744
Why?

why is metamask different than a paper wallet? i also have a seed phrase no?

>>20471699
You are completely incorrect, if the ledger software showed some huge fake banner to update your device because there is some kind of CVE they are patching almost all their users would enter the pin and update their devices.
Depending on how long it was posted you would at a minimum catch 20-50% of ledger users.

This shit is the dumbest shit ever.
Whoever sends you Trezor and each transportation chain element knows you are crypto holder of large enough sum to care.
Second of all,if (when) you are searched this shit will instantly be recognized as crypto wallet.
Third of all, if you know basic encryption ( gpg GUI) you can just duplicate encrypted seed files everywhere and remember pass phrase. I fucking hate Trezor and I hate everybody who buys their shit.
They also leaked all personal info of thousands of buyers not so recently

Stay away basically


Sage in all fields

>>20471405
>it would take a quantum computer to guess which word and position you took the “12th” from
Are you dumb, stupid, or dumb? Huh? All someone would need to do is try every word in the dictionary multiplied by the 12 possible positions. Can do that shit on a toaster.

>>20471940
Don't you need to physically press the keys on your Ledger for a transaction to happen?

>>20471954
So what's the safest method to store my Linkies?

Because a power surge can wipe away your crypto. lol

>>20471786
Ah, this makes sense. Thanks.

>>20468699
>Trezor
>is open source

>>20471977
No, you need to approve the firmware update, but once the firmware hit the device all bets are off, it can do anything but it would likely just dump the master key via USB to the compromised central client and push keys to a server for account draining.

All of this security revolves around a couple employees at an insecure office, that is the core security issue. They do nothing to mitigate this type of attack.

>>20471994
Encrypt zip file with gpg and strong pass on a safe computer (eg fresh Ubuntu install) and put it everywhere. Don’t forget pass

>>20471977
you need the physical ledger to even send anything out, no physicial ledger no way they can steal your shit.

seems like there alot of would be thieves here who want you to be in a hot wallet/paper wallet.

Nice thing about ledger is once you write down your keys, you never have to look at them again. keep in a safe place from prying eyes and you're fucking golden.

Seems like with a paper wallet you gotta keep entering your seed phrase and that actually sounds like a nightmare.

>>20471730
Your coins are always stored on the blockchain at all time.
A wallet is just a cryptographic key/password that allows you to move the funds on the blockchain by signing the transaction (the signature is derived from the private key).

It's like a certificate of property that everyone can verify is true on the network, in theory you could try to sign a transaction on an address you don't own but anyone on the network would call you a fag and never process it because the signature doesn't match the account.

A paper wallet is just keeping the private key on paper instead of as a file on your computer.

This thread is the proof average iq of a bizlet is below room temperature

>>20472076
AHHH KILL YOURSELF

Your stupidity amazes me. You are literally the most retarded gorilla I’ve ever seen. The second you install firmware update if it’s malicious or vulnerable and attacker can transfer EVERY FUCKING THING that was in this wallet the SAME fucking second. KYS

>>20472148
true but if ledger got hacked the total crypto MC would contact by 35% in a day

>>20472148
That would be incredibly difficult to do?? Yes there always a possibility that happens, which is why it in ledger best fucking interest to not let it happen or this space would implode.

>>20472168
No it fucking WOULDNT
The only thing that is contracting is your tiny peanut sized brain

Have you ever thought about cashing out large amounts of crypto?

>>20472148
You're aware that your crypto isn't in the actual Ledger, right?

>>20472148
You're just making shit up now

>>20472148

Don’t you have to verify sending through your hardware wallet?

Am I just a brainlet or does your argument make no fucking sense.

>>20472211
You don’t understand you idiot, you are paying for the whole world to know you are crypto holder with your home address.
You are also installing black box software by some who company that can be modified at whim. It’s shaky as fuck. Just use what I told you previously (gpg and any storage duplicates), it’s the safest way. For daily transactions use separate wallet like meta mask or electron if you love booomer coin

>>20468677
loki

>>20472211
This is their physical office with all the equipment and employees to perform this type of attack, does that shit look secure to you ?
1, rue du Mail,75002 Paris

>>20472273
yea nah, i'm gonna stick with my ledger.

>>20472261
No you would need to verify the firmware update, but it would be trivial to make it look legit from the ledger client if their central infra is compromised.
Once you have firmware you have all the keys.

Checkout Lattice 1 which is coming out this summer by Grid+,. Consensys project. Its far more superior in quality & usecases than Ledger. Such an undervalued project. Their dev devices are already being tested by top ethereum devs. Idex is going nuts today.

>>20472243
Listen. Your seed is in the ledger. It is controlled by firmware which has ROOT access to everything that’s on it. It controls IO and can send any amount of data over the internet as soon as it’s connected to your computer.
>>20472257
Kill yourself
>>20472261
If firmware is compromised, no ledger can send any data that’s on it to any server on the planet, instantly and absolutely without you knowing
All Trezor users deserve to get REKT

>>20472273
If you're that scared about muh firmware just use a trezor.
Anything hardware based is better than just storing your keys on a hot machine like a boomer waiting to get hax0red.

>>20472324
I hope you kill your self soon

>>20472066
Thank you based tech-literate anon.

>>20471940
>You are completely incorrect, if the ledger software showed some huge fake banner to update your device because there is some kind of CVE they are patching almost all their users would enter the pin and update their devices.
Such an obvious hack would easily be spotted in minutes, it would be as successful as the twitter hack of this week in terms of BTC collected. People don't even update until they're forced more often than not.

>Depending on how long it was posted you would at a minimum catch 20-50% of ledger users.
Majority of people use their ledger as cold wallets, there are many more convenient options for hot wallets.

>>20471954
>They also leaked all personal info of thousands of buyers not so recently
stuff like this convinces me these threads are just viral marketing by trezors competition lol

>>20472317

Makes sense, thanks anon.

So if you have access to the firmware and keys, any other 2FA essentially becomes irrelevant? Again, brainlet.

>>20472346
The advice is you should only use this shit for transactional amounts and wallets.
Never use any of this shit for big dick cold holds, always only air gap and paper wallet that shit.

>>20472309
Good luck then, everything i posted is easily verifiable if you have at least 30 minutes of time before buying SOII products. You will inevitably get hacked, maybe not this year or next, but this shit is fundamentally flawed

>>20472342
Even if your le hacker scenario was true, the only thing I have to do is wait a few days after every update to check if the world is burning or not and that's it.
I barely even plug it in.

You have fun for some basic ass keylogger to kill you and your """storage"""

>>20472402
>Good luck then, everything i posted is easily verifiable if you have at least 30 minutes of time before buying SOII products. You will inevitably get hacked, maybe not this year or next, but this shit is fundamentally flawed

tfw my linkies are worth 400k and i still use the same keystore file with password to unlock my wallet as i did in 2017, feels unsecure desu

>>20472387
Correct, the device is rooted it will do whatever it wants without your control.

>>20472383
Just google this idiot, it was literally posted here a month ago and all Trezor owners were seething, Trezor even made a statement.

Yes as you can see above I am shilling for Linux open source tools (gpg and any storage available), very well known Trezor competition indeed

All Trezor owners are brainlets. Repent, install Ubuntu spend some time learning gpg and memorize any pass that cannot be hacked with rainbow tables (doesn’t include common words or names), and put everything in encrypted zip.

Don’t listen to Trezor cucks, they will be swinging from the rope when firmware is inevitably pwned and they lose EVERYTHING in finger snap the first time they connect their shiny Trezor to check ((gains))

>>20468677
I'm going to get a ledger but I'm worried I'll fuck it up and lose my coins

>>20472398
paper wallets exposes your private keys if you want to access your funds. best part of a ledger is you never need to touch your private keys, only private pin which needs the physical hardware.

I'd rather take a physicial hardware wallet over a paper wallet any day. Remember newfags, if your private keys are exposed that wallet is eternally fucked.

Keep your private keys on paper, in a safe and away from any electronics and webcams.

>>20472342
No u

>>20472451
You are a fucking idiot and you are going to get yourself fleeced. You use a windows machine and you don’t understand first thing about threat model and how computers work. Do what I said. Or you WILL get punked and clowned by Trezor inc

>>20472522
DO NOT. Just read and verify what i said in this thread. Pls anon it’s for your own safety

>>20471954
> They also leaked all personal info of thousands of buyers not so recently
turbo brainlet that was a reseller not trezor

>>20472520
>Just google this idiot, it was literally posted here a month ago and all Trezor owners were seething, Trezor even made a statement.

either you're lying or you haven't actually bothered to verify what you're saying. i figured you'd ignore my post so maybe you actually didn't bother to verify the thing you're claiming is true. trezor did make a statement, and their statement is that the claim isn't true. lol. anyone who has ever bought a trezor (from the official store, retards don't count) already knows this is true because they openly state they destroy all info related to your identity after the transaction. plus you can also buy with monero lel.

>>20472647
>it a pajeet trying to fud hardware wallets. which reduces the surface area of attack down to almost nothing.

There have never been any mass attacks on hardware wallets, compared to exchanges/hot wallets. He even telling people to put their keys on a computer lmfao.

If you're not technically sound enough just get a hardware wallet, the only fault we've seen have been the end user fucking up by doing stupid shit like (downloading shit from google play or buying from a reseller).

Hi biz, I have 200 link and hold em on metamask, am I retarded? Its just everytime I go to buy a ledger I end up buying more link.

because u dont need them. Buy a secure USB like a kingston data traveler or a corsair flash survivor. Place an encrypted folder on the USB and then use a desktop wallet solution installed in that folder. Actually when I say "because you dont need them".. I am guessing. This is the system I am using and I believe it to be quite secure. (im using an AEGIS secure key USB encrypted with several wallets installed on that drive). Please do let me know if this is NOT a secure way to store crypto? I so far think it is better than a keep key or something. Thanks.

>>20472647
Okay maybe, it doesn’t change the whole point that every postman and delivery service employee will be aware for centuries to come that anon from anon street bought a ledger which is a crypto currency wallet for big boi amounts. They don’t even need to leak anything you fucking morons.

It’s literally pinky promise security how you not seeing this is beyond me

>>20472827
this is delusional schizophrenic posting. seethe more while my funds are eternally SAFU.

>>20472827
and that's why I bought Ledger on my friends name on a street address from the other side of the country

>>20472788
i know little about hacking... none at all. But luckily there are experts here right now. MEW as it is a hot wallet is easily hacked right?

Listen up faggots this is the only way to truly be secure with your crypto
>buy cheapest laptop possible specs dont matter it only need to run a web broswer
>buy cheapest android phone, only needs to run 2fa

this computer/phone will only ever be used for crypto, never ever use this laptop or phone on the same wifi network as other online computers, in fact every time you want to move crypto you should shutdown all other computers/phones on the network and reset your router to get a new IP address, that way even if you had some malware on one of the other PC's as long as they're shutdown the malware wont update the new IP to its source, you have a fresh connection for the crypto pc/phone.

use the offline etherwallet site saved to a folder and have your unlock method doesnt matter what it is encrypted and saved online in some kind of email service you opened from the clean pc on the clean connection, could be gmail/proton mail, as long as its encrypted it wont look like anything if discovered and even if it does its encrypted.

have a copy of the encrypted unlock method backed up on the PC itself and additionally on a USB stick in a different location.

the phone is only for 2fa via authy, for the email backups and exchanges., not sure if authy can be used without a sim or not but if it is thats preferable.

>>20472827
Peak schizo coping. You're seething so hard itt lmao pull that cock out of your ass fagboy.

>>20472891
2fa has been spoofed before.

>>20472719
You are a literal one brain cell retard. Your stupidity is unimaginable. I told people to encrypt data (PKs, seed - anything sensitive) on airgapped machine or OS (fresh install Ubuntu) and put it everywhere. You can store it on your front porch if you like - it’s safe. You only use open source tool which guard trillions in wealth already.
With Trezor you have to trust some shitty French company to not be compromised hacked or extorted for your funds to not vanish in a snap.

I see you have sunk money already into their shit. Not too late to reshuffle your wallet setup. Still not too late

>>20472827
"It’s literally pinky promise security how you not seeing this is beyond me"

Ranjeet exposed.

bro its just an expensive usb stick i got my private keys on sheets of paper and store copies of them in different houses in vaults thats the safest for me

>>20470186
>doesn't update firmware on day one
Problem solved.

>>20472827
i cant speak for ledger (though i plan on buying one eventually to make a "fair" comparison - ill admit im biased and think a lot of their choices are really bad) but the trezor packages i've received did not make it obvious what was inside. i agree that an airgapped ubuntu install is better but i think you're being a bit disingenuous about the differences between the two is my point here - to the point that some of the things that you said (and some of the things i've read by other IDs in the thread) give the impression of just fudding for some agenda.

>>20472852
You will be pink eventually. You know what I said is true - all your parcels have a big from: TREZOR SpA and any retard will know that you are a big time crypto holder.

>>20468798
crypto is still new

>>20471546
The hot wallets of binance are fully insured 1;1

>>20472966
FUDDING FOR WHAT?
I’m not shilling any fucking thing except for Ubuntu, do you think I’m here on behalf of stallman or Canonical Inc????

I just fucking hate leeches that lure arrogant newbies and mark them for life, putting them in danger and selling overpriced toys


WAKE THE FUCK UP

>>20472918
and my way prevents this, can you read? how would you spoof 2fa from a phone with no sim and one that uses a fresh clean connection?

>>20473007
they're insured if it a mass attack...

>>20472921
>With Trezor you have to trust some shitty French company
ledger is the french company, trezor is czech
>You can store it on your front porch if you like - it’s safe.
if someone gets physical access to the machine it isn't safe, but obviously its way more disguised than a purpose built wallet.

>>20468721
What’s a seed phrase?

>>20468721
seed phrases are the most insecure piece of shit way to secure a wallet

>>20473034
Chances that your Ubuntu fresh install is compromised are converging to 0.
> ledger is the french company, trezor is czech
All the fucking same, the security is only as strong as it’s weakest link

Don’t get BLACKED RAW by Trezor anons I beg you. I plead with you. Don’t trust ANY hardware wallets. Trust open source tools and Linux-based OSs

>>20473019
>FUDDING FOR WHAT?
i dunno, there are a lot of factually incorrect things in this thread some of which have been posted by yourself, that's all. i don't understand your motive and can only guess lel.

>>20473024
you're still giving it a vector of attack via a connection and you're way is so convuleted that new people here would probably fuck it up somehow leading to vulnerabilities.

All I know is that a physical hardware wallet has never been massed attack, and all current attacks require physical access to the device and this happens at the supply-chain side where you're ordering it from a second hand reseller.

Hardware wallets simply put are a safer way to store your coins if you're not that technical, as it needs the actual fucking device. if you aren't a retard storing your keys on a computer and on paper the chances of you getting hacked is near 0%.

>>20473113
Go fuck yourself. The only thing that was incorrect is my statement about Trezor leaking customer data - it turned out to be a large retailer. All the fucking same.
I’m telling you I’m not selling you anything, all wallets/products that require you to pay them are NOT SAFE.

Use open source FREE tools - Ubuntu and GPG.

>>20473158
HOW FUCKING HARD IT IS TO ENCRYPT A FILE and install Ubuntu??

Even my grandma can do that. Why buy shit that can be stuffed with malware when you can put it on 2 bucks usb drive you Bought at your local target????

Don’t buy ANY hardware wallets. If you do, you are positioning yourself for the ultimate JUST

>>20473221
>Leaving your keys on any electronic device.

>>20473221
what if that 2 dollar usb has a backdoor

Just DO NOT BUY HARDWARE WALLETS.

DO NOT USE HARDWARE WALLETS.

if you know somebody who uses hardware wallets, tell him to STOP USING HARDWARE WALLETS.


You are under tremendous risks both physical and financial when you order and start using those wallets.


Use Linux, use open source encryption it’s user friendly enough now.
DO NOT BUY REZOR LESGER OR ANY OF THIS SHIT

>>20473221
Walk me through this step by step like I'm a special needs child. Ok so I install Ubuntu. Now what? Where am I putting my coins and how am I getting them on there? I know you said encrypted zip file but what's in the zip file? A wallet?

>>20473306
Still safe because you only store ENCRYPTED data there. Please don’t buy hardware wallets.

>>20473310
thanks just bought 15 hardware wallets

>>20473174
there is only more safe and less safe, thinking you are completely safe with any solution is in itself unsafe. i'm pretty sure the only other thing you posted that is wrong is the implication that firmware updates for trezor are forced on you, which they aren't. they might be for ledger but i don't actually know.

to be completely straightforward about my position on this obviously generating keys on an airgapped computer is the best option, and imo the best backup solution is engraving your key on multiple pieces of metal in some kind of shamir secret sharing setup and having the backup pieces hidden separately. not everyone knows how to do this, and fucking something up when you are not completely familiar with what you are doing is a risk in itself. trezor does have a few additional risks - the most concerning of which are receiving a tampered device (so buy from the official store and be certain the tamper seals are intact) and some kind of malicious firmware attack. short of this, i see a trezor as nearly the same as using an airgapped computer to sign + broadcasting on another machine. yeah it's possible i'm overlooking something, but i think these are the only major differences. no matter what you do there is always going to be risk. the most troubling thing about crypto (for me) is that as it grows both of these options are too complicated for the average user.

>>20473331
1. Download Ubuntu from https Ubuntu website.
2. Install it.
3. Open browser install metamask.
4. Put seed generated by metamask into txt and then zip it and then encrypt it with GPG with 10+ character pass that doesn’t contain common words.
5. Send all your coins to this metamask wallet.
6. Duplicate encrypted file everywhere it’s safe now

You can even delete Ubuntu now everything is kept fundamentally safe in this tiny encrypted file - no entity has enough computational power to break this security without knowing your pass

PROFIT
DO NOT BUY HARDWARE WALLETS

>>20473221
Can you explain in detail what I need to do? Encrypt files, then install Ubuntu? That’s it?

>>20473158
>you're still giving it a vector of attack via a connection
while this is technically true how would anyone know to hack a clean connection? seriously even if they were targeting me specifically how would they know that this random IP that was just assigned to me has anything to do with crypto? thats the whole point of getting a new IP address and using a clean pc with it, its basically a newborn on the network and it never uses the same IP address twice, how would someone target this hackerbro?

>>20473392
They are forced on you anyways because of security updates - if a hacker compromised ledger he will announce it as a critical update to fix security issue - users will install it. DO NOT BUY HARDWARE WALLETS

It’s not complicated at all - it’s a 5 step process and most of this things will be useful to know in any event

>>20470186

doesn't matter. the keys are stored on a separate secure element. the firmware does not have access to this.

>>20473435
See >>20473424

How this is not in the sticky is also beyond me. People are getting scammed by hardware wallet crooks. Please don’t buy them, don’t buy hardware wallets GODDAMIT

>>20473424
Surprisingly simple. Thanks.

>>20468677
Since when does this board hate hardware wallets?

>>20468762
Isn't paper wallet generated on somebody's website?
https://www.coindesk.com/researcher-discovers-serious-vulnerability-in-paper-crypto-wallet-website
It's not 100% safe and you need to move all your coins at once.

>>20473445
it doesn't matter it an additional attack surface. If that a risk you're willing to take that fine. I trust ledger the company to their job that why I bought their device, now the only other attack vector is someone breaking into my home and stealing my physical wallet and my recovery phrases.

I have guns to stop that, better than getting cucked by someone thousands of miles away where you can't stop it.

>>20473221
>Even my grandma can do that

>>20473424
>generating a key while connected to the internet through metamask and complaining about hardware wallets

you know there are people who would laugh at you for doing this

>>20473544
HARDWARE WALLETS ARE CANCER
they are NOT SECURE

The whole model of this is fundamentally INSECURE and leeching off users that should know better

It’s a very real threat

Do NOT use any HW

>>20473490
>They are forced on you anyways because of security updates
trezor updates aren't forced, i agree that some kind of social engineering attack with malicious firmware is possible tho

How safe is metamask?

I got my seed phrase backed up in a few places. Any chance of metamask being inaccessible if they close down or anything?

>>20473569
Metamask and chrome are secure as fuck there are 1m usd sec bounties on each of them and they are tried every day certainly good enough for one time key derivation.

Keygen on metamask also works without any internet connection, just use it to download the extension.


DO NOT BUY SCAM HARDWARE WALLETS

>>20473625
>Metamask and chrome are secure as fuck
why are you doing this to me

>>20473618
No their seed is compatible with any other wallet it’s based on RFC standard


DO NOT BUY HARDWARE WALLETS

Download Argent wallet. Locks your coins in a smart contract with the ability to limit withdrawal to any amount you like per 24 hrs. No need for dumb seed words.

>>20473572
friendly advice: using sporadic caps lock makes you look more like a psychotic zoomer schizo than someone trustworthy

>>20468677
All it takes is to have the wallet break. Then you're fucked. I dont trust that shit

>>20473625
>chrome
>secure
cmon now

>>20473652
Anyone listening to this tard, deserves to get your coins stolen.

>>20473678
This
is
why
you
back
up
your
info

The state of this board

>>20473662
Do NOT BUY THIS SHIT

the only thing, literally the only one thing that triggers me in cryptocurrency is the hardware wallets. It is the most insecure, scammest shit ever and NOBKDY talks about it. Most crypto professionals know how much of a danger they are but users of hardware wallets are kept in the dark.
I truly hate hardware wallets

>>20473705
Clean install on Ubuntu is probably the most secure piece of software you will use in your shitty life - go see security bounties for chrome sandbox escape.
Please do what i say, just do this or you will LOSE EVERYTHING if you use hardware wallets

and remember - do not listen to hardware wallet bag holders - they need to throw them away and transfer everything to a new seed (preferably in reverse order)

>>20473737
if you were promoting something I wouldve sworn you were some pajeet trying to scam but since you're not, how about you elaborate?

>>20473830
I already described the 5 step process in a post above, scroll up. It’s the easiest shit ever to keep your crypto secure. DO IT

>>20473878
But Trezor is open source and Chrome is not.

>>20473572
I saw an article where the Trezor was hacked. Not worth it. Here's the thing:

If you can't find some way of writing down your phrase and storing it somewhere (at least 2 locations) secure then you're an idiot and deserve to lose everything. Writing them into metal is stupid because it's clear that it's a fucking passcode and so if anyone finds it in your safe or wherever, your money is gone.

I have many 100 year old books with inscriptions written into them, no fading. Ink doesn't just disappear unless it's a dogshit pen or sitting in the sun. Sun fading is absolutely real. Use a high quality fountain pen ink and high quality paper if you're nervous. Countless hiding spots for a few pieces of paper. Don't take pictures of it and don't store on your computer.

>>20473954
Trezor only could be "hacked" if "hackers" get direct access to the device.
If they can get your device they probably can get you as well, and if they get u, they will have your crypto anyway, so it doesn't matter.

>>20473942
Chrome is tried every day, it has state of the art security in the current year. The core of it is actually open source, I was referring to Chromium mostly which is “ungoogled” chrome but both of them are equally secure on a fresh Ubuntu installation
>>20473954
Why? With encryption you only need to memorize one password. No writing down, no nothing. Just a long weird word that keeps everything safe.

>>20474018
No they DO NOT. They can push a firmware update and pwn EVERYTHING you moron

>>2047403r by 8
Which is next to fucking nothing chance, that apocalypse level event for crypto:

>>20474038
Just don't update then.
Btw the most safe wallet is Armory wallet on offline pc.

>>20474131
you NEED to update sometimes as security patches are shipped. it is fundamentally broken model.

Any offline software wallet on clean ubuntu install will do, but it should be something that's used widely the more adopted the better. except for web wallets, but not including browser extension wallets.

jesus i'm real infosec specialist i'm giving you retards this advice for FREE. use it. don't use HWs

>>20474023
Hackers are constantly inventing new ways to hack, also, hacking isn't always what you'd expect, hackers have creative ways (key logging, screen sharing) to get in. Anything that's digital can be hacked given enough ingenuity or processing power. An encrypted file on your computer will always be a target. Also, probably a long time off, but AI and quantum will easily break the encryptions we have now.

Much easier to just write the thing down a few times and hide it. Also, writing the phrase down backwards or remembering it in terms of a sequence of lines (enter the odd lines written down first, then the even lines etc) for another layer of security is not a bad idea.

>>20473549
you have way too much trust in ledger, also what happens if your house catches fire? unless you memorized your recovery phrase you're fucked.

>>20474222
none of this is applicable to one-off key derivation on clean OS (ubuntu) install using metamask. the chances that your ancient book gets burned with the house or gets lost or stolen are huge.
encrypted wallet can be duplicated without those risks.
listen, there are papers on the topic but I'm giving you the gist of it - use this advice. I'm a professional in this field, I come to biz because it provided me support when I had nothing, and the only reason I'm typing this out is that hardware wallets are a disaster

ANNOUNCEMENT! The Unofficial Statera Wiki is commencing a Weekly Prize Pool.

The weekly winner gets Ethereum and Balancer Tokens from pooled bets from the prize pool.

.009 Ethereum entry fee $2.
A maximum of 10 entries per wallet .09 ETH max per entry

If we get enough entries the pooling aspect of this should put a good amount back into the competition weekly

https://stateraprojectwiki.com/weekly-prize-pool?utm_source=Telegram

>>20474213
What about government backdoors in intel/amd chips? Hardware wallets main purpose is that all transactions are signed on them and your backdoored pc won't see anything.

My takeaway from this thread is that my Ledger Nano is fine as long as I wait before installing any firmware updates.

>>20474356
yes this is part of threat model - if you don't want it install libreboot, but most of the ethereum nodes run on fresh intel/amd chips and vitalik uses a thinkpad. they are not interested in your shitcoins.

>>20472342
Nah you peepee the reason why you need to physically touch the keys on the ledger is because the circuit that connects to the private keys is air gapped. When you update the firmware you do not make that connection.

>>20474380
this is correct if firmware was malicious - if it was vulnerable it is backwards insecure. it is a disaster anyway, software should be up-to-date to be secure but you don't need software to manage secrets, see the principle of least privilege

>>20474380
> Ledger Nano
No, not open source so almost certainly contains a backdoor.

>>20471971
Not if you throw in a fake word

>>20474412
Wont adding a passphrase to your trezor just give you the same security as encrypting a txt file?

>>20474291
hey bro i was thinking about buying a new cheapo laptop and installing ubuntu and using this pc just for crypto on a fresh IP address with other computers on the same network shutdown before changing IP and turning on the crypto computer, and having my keyphrase encrypted too, my uestion is what form of encryption is best these days, i use to use truecrypt a few years ago by i remember hearing it got compromised.

also can we diy anything similar to the pc setup in terms of safety on a phone for 2fa purposes? for exchanges and such

>>20474402
if firmware is pwned it will simply wait until circuit is connected.
all of this is highly insecure, this is security by obscurity, do not buy this shit.

>>20471699
Whats annoying is needing pc/mac everytime you need to update firmware. A lot of ppl just have a phone.

>>20474291
We agree hardware wallets are a no-no.
If your house burns down so does your computer with the encrypted files so that's a non-issue. Also, the probability of your house burning down is extremely low. And like I said, keeping a copy in another location (say a parents house) is prudent. Ultimately it depends on your personal circumstances, but for most physical copies stored in safe places is a no brainer.

>>20474213
>>20474291
>>20474384
Anon, you are extraordinarily based, I want to suck your cock.

>>20474291
Also, a computer is more steal worthy than a scrap of paper hidden somewhere. Also, what if the computer breaks?

>>20474441
If you want your cheapo laptop to be safe u need to physically make it unable to access the internet and sign transactions with external device.

>>20474438
no, trezor can be remotely pwned at root level. simply migrate from it to ubuntu + gpg aka one encrypted file.
>>20474441
truecrypt has been superseded by veracrypt, the latter has been found to be insecure by external audit too. Use battle tested symmetric key encryption - simply use GPG GUI program on ubuntu, aka right click -> encrypt. It is extremely safe and audited a gozillion times, it relies on AES which is provably secure.

>>20474441
no idea about phones, can't give advice on this. i am not aware how secure open source phone OSs/tools are

>>20474460
you can upload this file anywhere - even email it. it is secure you don't need to keep it in some secret location, basically if you spread it your memory is your key, and you only need to remember some catchy word.

>>20470078
Sorry, I had the proportions right, but amounts wrong.
Nano S has 160kb
Ethereum 40kb
Bitcoin 40kb
XRP 36kb
XSN 4kb
BAT is an ERC20 so it falls under Ethereum. Yes, ALL ERC20 tokens only need the Ethereum app and you are good. So a Nano S would cover all that you mentioned at the same time.

>>20474594
anon you will lose all your money and maybe get target if you ordered this toy to your real address, wake up and stop putting other people in danger.

>>20470430
This. Paper wallets are fine if you plan to do zero transacting. Hw wallet gives you the same security as a paper wallet, but allows you to keep using the wallet securely as you transact. I can quickly send funds for a trade and then send them back to the hw wallet without having compromised security. It’s easy to do.

>>20474569
Now you're hosting an encrypted file on the network. Thanks but no. The medical/legal arena are still forced to use fax when they send files. Again like I said, we use new standards of encryption throughout history because vulnerabilities are found every day.

>>20470637
That’s another big benefit of the X over the S. The Nano X has a larger and higher resolution screen. On the S, I sometimes had trouble making out the characters when verifying addresses, whereas I don’t have that issue on the X. It’s easier to read.

>>20474529
What if you just run a local instance of trezor on your computer

>>20474650
the day aes security is broken first your https connections are not secure anymore on all websites, then your credit card transactions can be read by anyone with bluetooth receiver. you get the drill - this is not an issue. if this happens, you need to transfer your coins to another wallet yes, but this part of a threat model - it is literally apocalypse tier event for modern cryptographic services

>>20474636
I live in the US and pay taxes on crypto. I’m also in a very Gun friendly state so I have guns to protect myself. I’d rather transact in a cyber-secure way. I feel safer irl in my white neighborhood.

>>20474719
it's okay for small transactions as hot wallets, anything you cannot afford to lose - you use ubuntu + gpg

>>20474755
Yeah but doesnt that take away the malicious firmware risk?

>>20474747
i'm happy for you but some anon in some shitbox in NY will read this and get his head sawed off after ordering a shiny hardwre wallet, many such cases.
consider using ubuntu + gpg, stop being a paypig to some french startup

>>20474801
Are you referring to the NY tech CEO who was just dismembered? He wasn’t targeted. His jogger personal assistant was embezzling hundreds of thousands of dollars from him and this arrogant retard thought the best way to confront the assistant was to do so alone at his own apartment...where the assistant got scared, stabbed him, and then dismembered him to try and dispose of the body. He has been arrested.

dont listen to this retard >>20471115, buy a fucking trezor or ledger.

the best "hardware wallet" is an old ass laptop with full drive encryption (and a good password, not a fucking 8 digit pin), and the only software installed on it are wallets

>>20474897
i am aware. i'm making a point that there are thousands of cases of crypto holders getting kidnapped, extorted killed or etc. "being your own bank" comes with cons like this and announcing that you hold large amounts of it to potentially thousands of regular post office employees along with your exact home address is NOT a good idea.
this is besides huge technical security model flaws that come with HWs

Alright. So perhaps the most secure wallet is one generated from a snapshot of MEW put onto a USB, loaded on an airgapped laptop, and used to generate a wallet. Send coins to this wallet. Memorize the wallet seed phrase then burn the paper you have it written down on and never allow the burner laptop to access the internet.

Any flaws with this?

>>20473772
shitty attitude and tone in your posting. Unsubscribed

>>20475093
No. Ledger is more secure than human memory. There is a higher chance you hit your head and forget your words than this bullshit hacker scenario that people in this thread are making up happens.

These people are shook over firmware updates trying to pretend they're incredibly malleable when in reality they just don't want to shill out the money for hardware wallet.

>>20475093
don't use mew web wallets are not safe, use metamask or gnosis safe or some other desktop wallets compatible with linux out of the box

>>20475163
you are a literal chimpanzee. if you hit your head enough to forget a pass you most likely won't need your ledger any more.
this is secure, based on peer reviewed studies. HWs are a scam and i just have a feeling you shelled out for one

>>20475234
does this not fit your agenda >>20474799?

>yeah bro, just use a paper wallet
>who cares if you get keylogged and you lose your life savings? Lmaooo. Better than buying a $50 trezor

>>20475234
you're a brainlet if you think memorization > hw

>>20475289
but anon, the mailman might remember that time he delivered a wallet to you ten years ago and come collect his due

>>20475234
desu you're right I did get baited into one, but I still trust it more than my own memory.

I really think you're overstating how insecure hardware wallets are.

You have no counterargument to the "wait 5 days to update" method. You fail to be forthright about the fact that putting in your seed phrase every time you use your paper wallet has a lot of risk associated with it. No response to the risk of keyloggers.

Be honest, do you think a firmware hack at ledger is more likely than any of the flaws associated with mobile wallets, paper wallets, and desktop wallets?

And how can you seriously trust human memory that much?

>>20468677
The real reason why you leave it on an exchange is so you can cash out in a split second when needed, and to have a record of your gains and transactions for tax purposes when you do.

>>20475391
I already explained that this is not the case with vulnerable firmware (not malicious) - it can remain unpatched for a long time and the second you connect your ledger it will be pwned if your environment is compromised.
You are expanding circle of trust to unprecedented levels

even app wallets on your phone, considered non secured, have never been hacked

>>20474529
thanks bro

>>20475288
It doesn’t take away or mitigate malicious firmware risk as you still using that cancer

>>20475592
So since you're so educated on why hardware wallets aren't secure. Could you present a reality in which hardware wallets are the most secure of all the wallets? What would need to be changed with the way modern wallets currently are to be secure in your eyes?

Assuming you had full ability to change these things.

>>20475391
You can back up your pass somewhere nobody needs to even know what it is. But it’s just one short memorable word.

Yes I truly trust my own memory and open source software used by millions of nodes more than some startup in Czech Republic or somewhere, manufacturing toys that go through pipeline with no oversight or legal guarantees, no evidence or due process to protect against tampering too

>>20475708
None of them are as secure as general purpose tools that I’ve described, and this is level of security that is necessary for cold wallets. The whole idea of specialized crypto wallet hardware denies you privacy right off the bat, and forces you to trust some entity and to trust the whole manifacturing/transportation pipeline

>>20468677
the main advantage of a hardware wallet, like the Trezor, is the price locking functionality. Supported by 256SHA hashes, price locking seals in the price you bought your coins at. I still have 1.6 btc from 2016 on my Trezor locked at $17,745. Highly recommended

>>20475803
I locked my LINK at 8.74, now just waiting for it to go higher. Surprised more people don’t know about this.

>>20473069
Well then what's your idea then

>>20468677
How is it different from an usb stick with a notepad file inside where the private key is written?

>>20470736
yeah trezor is from based czechia

Fun story kids, got a ledger. Set up ledger. Busy with funds elsewhere so 6 months go by until decide to put crypto on ledger. Shocked face as password doesn't work and seed phrase doesn't work. All crypto would have disappeared forever. Oopsie.

hardware wallets are literally overpriced usb sticks that store txt. file with your keys

>>20468677
If you want the utmost security with extremely limited functionality use Glacier Protocol to generate your keys. Hold on paper/metal till Bitcoin moons.

If you want extra functionality but still extremely high security use Coldcard.

If you want high security and high functionality use a Trezor or a Ledger

Store your paper seed phrases/keys on paper/metal, laminated in a privacy envelope in a fireproof box. Use a safe if you have one.

This is the inarguable tier list. I am a paid contractor who does work in securing wealthy peoples cryptocurrency holdings(mostly Bitcoin).

Any questions? AMA.

>>20468699
Hardware wallets don't hold anything, they sign transactions. You can still recover your actual wallet without the device. It's physical 2FA that nobody can sim swap or steal remotely. If you're that paranoid, preorder an NGRAVE before the special ends. There will be no better hardware wallet on the market. No USB, Bluetooth or WiFi.

>>20476735
Coldcard blows every other hardware wallet out if the water right now in terms of security.

>>20476724
>>20476759
Also to add, store them in faraday bags when not in use. Theres a bunch of other opsec tips I can give if you are curious.

>>20476789
how can I hide my wife and kids?

>>20476827
Laminate them, put them in security envelops, put them in waterproof/tearproof envelope, do not write anything on the outside envelope, line with faraday material if extra paranoid, but into a fireproof box+safe or bank deposit box.

>>20476910
ty ty!!

>>20476789
I went for the NGRAVE because of alt support and the Graphene backup but I should probably snag one of these for my BTC.
>>20476789
Always looking for improvement if you're willing to share tips fren.

>>20472953
this lol, if you're paranoid about that dont make any transactions same day as updating firmware

ledger is good enough for 99% of people, if you want 100% just make an eth smart contract which behaves like a delayed-withdrawal bank to whitelisted addresses only

>>20473424
What do I do with non erc20? How do i send out without compromising entire wallet by connecting it to internet?

>>20477107
Tell me how you go about (generally) generating and securing your seeds and I’ll offer you some advice on improving if you have some weak points.

>>20477230
I have some spread out on a Ledger and hot wallets in various amounts but main holdings were done with BitKey offline on a clean machine with no connections.

>>20476130
It’s pin protected. And requires ledger live to send funds on top of it.

>>20477458
Did you remove the wifi/bluetooth chips before generating? If so you should do that. Also, do it in an interior closet or something similar with a fan running and only on battery power. I’ve never used a bitkey, but appears to be a bootable linux drive with key generation software on it which is good. The extra mile is destroying the machine after use.

It sounds like your generation was safe enough, if it had been comprimised i’m sure youd know by now. The one weak point I see is the bitkey, you should always gennerate your own entropy (dice, cards, etc) i don’t know how it generates entropy. Something to consider is that they are backdoored or pseudo random. Again i dont know about them so thats your call in evaluating that risk.

>>20471971
>>20474435
in this case youd need 12 toasters

>>20476910
>laminate your wife and kids
Respectable

This newfag thread is so deliciously bullish

Not gonna lie, I legit ordered and picked up a Nano S just a few weeks ago
Haven't used it to store my crypto yet, but was planning to after researching the entire process of moving my crypto using it
But now the posts from pink anon (lwT3wmop) is giving me second thoughts about using it
Thought he was a random troll, but he seems to be going into a lot of detail about why hardware wallets are risky

>>20471971
Ahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahha

He thinks a toaster can calculate 2048^12 possible keypairs HAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAH

544,413,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 key pairs LMAO on A TOASTER. Thats more than 30000000000000000000000000000x grains of sand on Earth. HAHAHAHAH get a load of this IDIOT.

Fuck this shit. One of these big banks need to step the fuck up and make a wallet, so I can just used a simple username and password and sue their ass if they get hacked.

>>20468677
i dont keep it in a hot wallet, just in HOT

What aboit Ngrave

>>20475062
I did what you said about downloading ubuntu and storing my seed in a small encrypted file. I sent my coins on there.

Could you please help me sign an offline transaction so that I can send back some of my coins to an exchange without compromising myself/my seed? This is the part I’m stuck at.

>>20479054
2048 ^ 24

They are 24 word seeds.

>>20472953
>>20477137
Am I missing something or is this the simple solution to the whole 'firmware' hack scenario being repeated in this thread?

>>20480536
yea he tries to pretend it can be "hidden" in past firmware updates to FUD us from Ledger even more. It's retarded. Hardware wallet > human memory any day.

>>20472477
a trezor is 40$, wtf are you doing

>>20472477
>tfw my linkies are worth 400k and i still use the same keystore file with password to unlock my wallet as i did in 2017, feels unsecure desu
Dude, you BETTER be lying
My stash is barely worth $30k now and I already decided to get a hardware wallet. I was meaning to get one once my stash passed $10k in value
Shit, even the anons against hardware wallets in this thread will tell you to do something else better than keystore+password

>>20469444
>overwrites his stinkies by accident because no space
>frog dev laughs

>>20473525
Yes it does you mongoloid , how do you think it signs the transactions you send it?
Fuck this board is full of retards.
The secure element is protected by this master key that is what makes it the secure element.

>>20471509
You buy a ledger or trezor
You initialize it, importantly if you open the box and there is already a word list, the wallet is compromised, throw it away,this was happening for awhile, intermediate sellers were initializing wallets and therefor had control..after you initialize you will have the wordlist to recover. You should do this to prove to yourself you can donit/it works. Never loose this wordlist, it is the wallet. Move some tiny amount of coins onto it, prove to yourself it works, then move rest. I did above, i have two ledgers with same wordlist...

>>20479059
>so I can just used a simple username and password and sue their ass if they get hacked
Unironically this is when cryto will succeed.

>>20478825
There are zero documented cases of funds lost through hack of a hardware wallet used properly.

>>20468677
I have a couple different ones, I'll say this about trezor, they are fragile, I dropped one about 3.5 feet onto a wood floor, it didn't seem like it would have hit hard enough to do anything but it killed it, I had a spare and I was sweating but I entered my seed and it worked like a charm.
I like them, I also have a nano and it's good too.

>>20479529
So I’m guessing doing so is not possible?

>>20475234
based schizo linux poster. Your advice is unironically the best thing anyone can do, and is exactly what I did years ago.
>t. ubuntu faggot

sooooo can i just use a fucking wallet app or nah?