/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>19836146
>effort posting on /biz/
Pity bump

>>19836146
Finally an intelligent thread. Unfortunately /biz/ will ignore it.

My team is launching a token on uniswap and many other exchanges in a week. Join here:

https //discord gg/ 2g 2F tWM

>>19836252
I get off on the fact that nobody here will read this or care and will buy BAT anyway chasing this fake pump. I’ll be back soon to make fun of all those schmucks with their dollars in my pocket. Crypto is so damn easy when you know what you are doing.

>>19836270
And get out of my thread rat

When BATdump ?

so what's your current strategy? I'm still trying to wrap my head around the borrowing concept and and be safe enough that I don't fuck myself financially for the next x years. Teach me senpai

>>19836428
Read the fucking thread.

>>19836441
I’m scaling into a short with 8% of my portfolio, but my portfolio is large. Going short is simple, put up some collateral, use BTC or ETH and you can borrow BAT. Sell this BAT immediately if you are a small portfolio and then you wait till the price drops and rebuy it. You get to keep the difference in price - fees. Lets say you borrowed today at $.24 over the next month it drops 50% to $.12. You buy as many tokens you borrowed back at .12, close your loan and get to keep the profit. This scenario is 50% profit - fees which may be around 2-10%, depends on the length of time you hold the short.

>>19836480
Sorry

>>19836480
Okay understood. Now the real question is how do you know it will drop? Just from the APR? The number of borrowers? Couldn't they be accumulating because of an impending price increase?

>>19836535
He doesn’t know, he’s a faggot.

>>19836535
Big money doesn’t leverage at 31% APR to go long. They would just buy the token outright and pay 0% APR. The only explanation is somebody is accumulating shorts and at 31% APR you can deduce they are close to finishing that accumulation. Like I said, if they expected price to go up, they’d just buy the token with cash/btc and not have to pay APR.

Anon, what does this mean? Sell my COMP?

>>19836535
There is 45M USD worth of BAT being borrowed on Compound alone, that is not retail money.

>>19836551
Please go all in BAT, I’d love more profits. I’ll be back in a few weeks- months to wave your dollars in your face.

>>19836573
Just read the thread slowly and understand, your COMP token is unaffected in the situation I am describing.

>>19836560
>There is 45M USD worth of BAT being borrowed on Compound alone, that is not retail money.
okay. thanks. slowly making sense. I'm assuming this can be analogous to other situations as well?

Dude what the fuck why are they trying to kill BAT

>>19836625
If your asking if you could repeat this trade in similar circumstances with other coins, yes. But do be careful, you really should educate yourself on the underlying assets involved and how the numbers interact with eachother. It’s great to do this with BAT because its a low cap (relative to stocks) shitcoin thats only buy side demand comes from speculators. It also has a HUGE premined supply that is uncirculating. Essentially it already has a ton of downward pressure built into it.

Always practice good risk management, don’t get greedy. Never all in trades unless your playing with pocket change.

>>19836665
They aren’t trying to kill BAT, they just see easy money. BAT will recover in time if it has a good usecase, (i don’t think it does but that could change)

>>19836666
thanks for the info. my thinking is already slightly shifting to see the hidden strings. got any more tips, tricks or info?

>>19836699
You’ll have to ask more specific questions and then I can help you.

Broadly I’d say learn the fundamentals of markets and derivatives and that will allow you to see the bigger picture. For example how shorting, options, perpetual swaps, funding rates, etc, work under the hood. Read all the documentation. Then, when something is really out of proportion like this BAT APR, you can deduce why that would be and then profit from it. Risk management is also super, super important, but if you are trading with less than $20,000 or live in a third world, don’t be afraid to yolo 50% positions.

>>19836146

Thank you for your time anon. Can you recommend any books or learning material to increase my knowledge in this field and spot opportunities like this? I'm not going to be applying to any financial firms, but I would like to be more knowledgable than the average crypto/finance retard, of which I am currently one.

>>19836560
>>19836579
Kek like you know what big money does faggot. Your 100 link stack doesn’t count, show us your shirts also nigger. I’m capping all this shit make fun of you later pajeet.

>>19836766
If you are purely interested in crypto, I wouldn’t reccomend any books it will just cloud your judgement. Definitely do this >>19836747

I can’t stress enough important it is to understand what you are trading. Reading whitepapers is a waste of time for trading. TA is absolutely useless. If you are good at excel just start playing around with numbers, try to find relations that you can profit from. I’m telling you all the crypto space is still super unexplored and there are tons of opportunities for enterprising, smart individuals to make a ton of money, i’m one of them. Just spend all day reading to understand how things work, then look for things that are out of the ordinary, deduce why that may be and build a strategy around it. Don’t follow the herd.

Omg you are so wise sempai

>>19836805
Cap it and go all in BAT. I make my living fleecing shitcoin sheep just like you.

>>19836819
>>19836886

Good shit, thanks friend.

Leaving in 10mins, won’t be back anytime soon. If you have any other questions about crypto/the trade get them in now. This place is a brain drain full of mostly scammers and idiots.

>>19836146
Great post OP, what cryptos do you hold?

>>19837050
This or DMG?

DMG ?

>>19837050
>This place is a brain drain full of mostly scammers and idiots
Where to go then?

>>19837119
Currently 95% BTC, 30% of which I actively trade with. I have a few ETH and other coin dust from past trades. I don’t hold altcoins longterm, just scalp.

>>19837123
You can do both man, I haven’t looked into to DMG so can’t say much else. I will say I prefer this trade to blind speculation on alt coins.

>>19837139
>>19837151
Don’t know enough about DMG to give an opinoin.

>>19837148
Go to direct sources of information that you are curious about and read. There are no “good” social boards to discuss crypto, the majority is just uneducated and stupid, so anybody who knows their stuff it’s like talking to a toddler 9/10.

Alright folks, 5 more minutes for questions. This is your last opportunity to ask a crypto question to somebody who actually knows what they are doing.

>>19837235
95% on BTC, you must be bullish? Or is it super long term?

>>19837235
Please be honest:
Harmony (ONE)
Stakenet (XSN)
V-ID (VIDT)
Statera (STA)

Anything you can suggest to me would be greatly appreciated. I see these as being great long term holds.

Thanks based bigbrainfag

>>19836146
is SNX a scam or shitcoin?

>>19837269
I’m extremely bullish on BTC longterm. In this current macroeconomic environment with rampant inflation and perpetually dropping interest rates, heading negative, I think BTC will be the best perfoming asset for the next 10 years.

>>19837280
Here is what I will say about these coins, alt coins on a long enough time frame NEVER outperform Bitcoin. I still do trade altcoins but only 1-3 month swing trades. I highly suggest that if your holding altcoins longterm that it is <25% of your Bitcoin holdings. Go back through coinmarket cap historical and see how many times coins have cycled in and out of the top 10. I can’t comment on all of those coins but I can tell you Statera will go nowhere. It may pump shortterm but thats it. The only function of the coin is that it burns itself and thats not a valueable or novel usecase. If you want to build a weighted rebalancing token fund you can do it with the same tool Statera uses, without having to hold that useless coin. Go to “balancer.finance” I’m not saying that these coins won’t go up in value short term, I can promise you they won’t go up in value long term against Bitcoin.

>>19837280
>>19837361
Also, to add to that, don’t get caught up in the staking meme. Staking actually has a net negative return to retail holders, I can elaborate if you want to understand better.

>>19837302
I haven’t reasearched it enough to comment. I’ll refer you to this post

>>19837361

>>19837361
Do you believe bitcoin has a real future?

Do you think in a few decades people will measure their wealth in how much bitcoin they have?

>>19837394
is this a good price for btc or you think it'll go down in price yet again? thank you op

>>19837380
What about Stakenet's Masternode system? Do you think this applies to what you've said about staking?

Also, I was more asking what you think about holding them long term. I was hoping you'd be at least vaguely informed on them considering they're spoken about regularly here.
I never meant to ask you how you think they'll perform long term against BTC.

Saw you in the other thread OP. What do you think they will short BAT down to? Why would they use BAT rather than other shitcoins?

bigbrainanon, you said btc as collateral for bat. checked compound only has wbtc. how to change btc to wbtc?

>>19837419
Yes, I believe Bitcoin has a really bright future. Even if the usecase as currency does not pan out, it could still have a place as a reserve asset and it’s blockchain, which is the most secure computer network in the world, could be leveraged for validation, security, and many other uses we may not even be able to imagine right now. I see the Bitcoin marketcap going to ~5-8 Trillion USD in the next 10 years.

>>19837425
I built a quantitative model which signals good times to buy/sell BTC. The last buy signal it recommended was 6,400$ in April. The volatility is extremely low right now so it is hard to say. I think if you have none you should atleast buy 10-25% of your available funds. Then either employ a DCA strategy or wait for dips to continue adding.

>>19837433
Altcoins are extremely hard to stay up to date on because of the sheer volume being released daily. I can’t say anything specifically about stakenet but think about it logically, if you are earning 10% (whatever it is) APR per year for staking the coin, so is everybody else, including founding wallets. This essentially is just making your coin 10% less valueable per year and proportionally benefits larger wallets due to compounding interest. If it is a forced holding period when you enter the stake it is almost CERTAINTLY a scam, (so founders can dump while your locked up). I always look at altcoins as an opportunity cost vs Bitcoin. I really do not suggest holding altcoins longterm, I have run countless simulations with different Bitcoin/alt coin weighting over the years and Bitcoin ALWAYS outperforms. I’m not saying they won’t do well, I’m just saying Bitcoin will almost certainly do better, that is the opportunity cost.

>>19837481
I can’t name a price, but you can find your exit when the borrowing APR of BAT drops to the 8-12% APR range. This means many of the shorts have been closed and the buying pressure has been alleviated. If I had to guess it’ll go .17-.12 cents, but just follow the APR.

>>19837483
Google search it, much harder to explain in a brick of text on here.

>>19837564
Selling pressure has been alleviated*

>>19837564
Out of curiosity do you believe BAT has any value longterm?

>>19837564
long LINK ?

>>19837590
In its current form, no. But I do believe it could because the Brave browser is popularly used, they just need to find a better usecase for it. If you want my detailed explanation as to why I think this way lmk.

>>19837605
> they just need to find a better usecase for it.
I agree. It seems they are doing their best to implement the SDK so as websites can implement BAT for paywalls and other features im sure you are aware of, it just feels like its taking forever.

>If you want my detailed explanation as to why I think this way lmk.
IF you have the time, that would be great.

Also, do you think ETH has longterm value increase?

OP IS A RETARD; DO NOT LISTEN TO RETARDED OP.

0x was at 29% borrow 5th may
https://compound.finance/markets/ZRX

What did happen when it fell back to 7% borrow?

https://www.coingecko.com/en/coins/0x
PRICE FUCKING SKYROCKETED 50%

Fuck you OP for wanting people to sell cheap BAT.

>>19837600
I have scalped Link multiple times and made a nice profit. I personally wouldn’t long LINK at its present state of development, I believe it is overvalued right now. However, if LINK is able to deliver decentralized oracles the token would be worth A LOT. I am skeptical they can deliver, but if the technology progresses I would enter a long on LINK. It is one I am watching. I am willing to miss out on some early price appreciation to reduce risk of non-deliverence. What they have set out to solve is an extremely hard problem, but is immensly valueable.

>>19837659
That is a totally different scenario. The APR can also go very high if people are borrowing to leverage long. ZRX had a protocol upgrade around that date people were speculating on. Like I said you have to understand the assets before entering the trade.

>>19837659
>>19837738
I could cherry pick multiple other unrelated borrowing scenarios that confirm my trade too.

>>19837754
I'm watching all the altcoins I sold moon. Do you predict a general crash soon, not just BAT but across the crypto spectrum?

>>19837632
First off the team holds a tremendous amount of tokens still and has been giving them away for free in order to spur adoption. Coins that do this usually have negative price impacts, another example of that is Stellar.

Second, the function of the token is a tipping token and a utility to purchase ad-space. However, they are hurting adoption by trying to force an Ad marketplace with only BAT. Buyers and sellers will want to use other coins to buy/sell ad-space and frankly they can just accept them and circumvent BAT entirely unless Brave can enforce it very strictly, which again will hamper adoption immensely.

The two functions of the coin are hardly used compared to browser adoption and encourage far more downward pressure than upward. Content creators will to convert tips into other currencies as they get them, as will ad sellers. This functionally should have a net 0 impact on price and then you add in the massive developer fund and freebies and the negative impact becomes large.

Simply the coin does not hold a niche advantage as any and all cryptocurrencies could be used for all of BATs proposed uses. People can tip in BTC, ETH, etc, buy ads in BTC, ETH, etc with just as much friction of BAT. If a broswer or add on comes out with that functionality BAT and Brave become useless overnight.

>>19837816
I can’t say, all I can give you is a guess. I see Bitcoin starting a bull run fairly soon and that tide should lift all boats, but it may not. I do not believe another 2017 like bull run will occur, where any and all alts were doing 10-100xs.

>>19837860
I wouldn't be so sure.
Things are going to line up perfectly with the election coming in late this year.
The economy is going to surge like crazy after that and we're going to see insane liquid pour in to all markets, especially experimental ones.
We can guess things will climb liberally until around mid January 2022.

>>19836146
If you wanna swim with the whales look at what you can do with AAVE, and fully understand it. It's only beginning.

>>19837904
I totally agree with a bull run happening here fairly soon, I just don’t think altcoins will have the same magnitude of gains as 2017. This bull-run is going to be far more insitutionally led than 2017, big firms are already padding up their Bitcoin positions. Some alts will surely 10x+ but far fewer than 2017. And don’t forget that alts mostly bled or stayed flat against BTC for the majority of the year, it was only until the final mania in the months of Nov-Feb that alts went absolutely insane. Thats when you want to buy alts, nearer to the end of the bull market in the mania phase.

>>19836146
How many more times can you say "deduce" in this thread and other buzzwords to larp as an intellectual. Top kek m8, you have no idea what you're talking about.

>>19837953
I’ve typed around 2000 words in a short period of time and because I’ve used some of them a few times, I don’t know what I’m talking about. Lol, ok.

Why don’t you try and poke a hole in the actual information I’ve provided?

>>19837953
We're either going to decouple and crypto is going to spiral out of control as a whole, sending the USD in to a death spiral, or we're going to fly off to the moon while the USD has a nice dead cat bounce until it falls off so hard it needs to be backed by metals again.
Not being prepared for the second one is a mistake.

>>19838006
We are in the early phases of a global currency crisis. Many asset classes are going to well on paper, but in reality fiat currencies everywhere are being massively inflated and devalued. Not owning some Bitcoin, PM’s, RE, or certain stocks is beyond negligent at this point.

>>19837986
Lol at thinking I'm going to poke holes in 200 pages of word salad. "Follow the whales! They are going to short!"

Lmao theres a few whales that have been derisking and a few that have been taking long position on maker, and a few that have been accumulating over the past three years. Going for the "big short" is a suicide mission. If they wanted to do it they would have done it 4 or 5 times already.

>>19838054
Interesting.
So, which stocks do you suspect would be intelligent to purchase? I don't really see any stocks like I see anything else.

>>19838089
So your admitting you didn’t read what I’m talking about and you still are claiming I don’t know what I am talking about. Ok idiot. How about you just read the data yourself.

There is 45M USD in BAT being borrowed at 31% APR by 351 people. You seriously believe that is 351 retail holders just leveraging 130K long on BAT? You are the fucking idiot who doesn’t know what they are talking about. Do youself a favor and read what I said, you might learn something.

>>19838143
They are harvesting COMP and they are already leaving their contracts. This isn't some big short you schizoid

>>19838121
>>19838143
Look at that, the overconfident dipshit runs away when confronted by facts. Some people are so self conscious of their own lack of ability they believe nobody else can have ability.

>>19838121
There are a ton of companies that benefit from weaker dollars, inflation and low IR’s, also plenty that die from it. Too many to list here but on the short side look banking, longside look profitable industrials with large fixed rate debts.

>>19837754
What projects in the Defi space do you think are worth a damn?

>>19838252
They can harvest COMP for far less APR in any other borrowable asset LMAO. They can harvest comp for 14% APR with greater liquidity and less risk in TETHER. You truly are a moron.

>>19836146
Also how do you know they are not leveraging long based on insider info?

I.e. Bat insider(s) is aware of major news, starts to build long positions driving up the borrowing rate.

>>19836665
Coronavirus came from BAT This is the development of a vaccine

>>19838294
Nobody with that kind of captial is stupid enough to go leverage long at 31.1% APR. On the exact same platform they could borrow USDT at 14% and buy BAT with it. Anybody controlling 6-7 figures can easily get traditional loans ~7% or likely has more money to purchase spot coin.

It makes ZERO sense for people controlling 6-7 figures to borrow at 31% APR to go long, when they can get 14% with the exact same service or get even lower with other services.

>>19838271
They are lending their own BAT and then borrowing their own BAT back. These are whales that already own BAT. If they sold their BAT for tether there would be massive price slippage and it would be a taxable event. You are a literal brainlet dude.

>>19838352
> they are paying 11% in fees to compound to get 3% in their platform coin

You cannot dig yourself a bigger hole. You are so deep you are dying from oxygen depravation, perhaps this is why you are so fucking dumb.

>>19838352
You are the pinnacle of dumb money, overconfident in your cognitive ability, will make up any scenario to fit your cognitive bias. I actually love people like you, I make my money from you. I’m not even going to try and teach you a thing.

>>19838379
>paying 11% in fees to get 3% in a platform coin that's up 180%

Gee I wonder.

>>19838343
Cheers.

>>19838405
Even if it did work like that, you do realize 3% x 1.8x is still less than 11%, right? Of course you don’t LMAO. Tell me your next play, I’d love to take the other side.

I'm too stupid for this. Where do I learn about compound, and these crypto loans?

You mean I take out a BAT loan, sell it on uniswap and then wait for the APR to go down and then pay it back in BAT?

:/

>>19838438
You have the right idea. However, you need to have a stronger fundamnetal understaing before taking on the trade. You can learn about how compound works on their own website, just read their documentation.

You put up collateral, borrow BAT, sell it watch as the price drops, when APR goes back down to normal levels ~11% you rebuy what you borrowed and pay back the loan. You get to pocket the difference.

>>19838343
On second thought, what about the 0x example up earlier. op cited speculation on a protocol upgrade as the reason for the borrowing rate being driven up to 29%. Surely people could have borrowed with stable coins that have a lower yield instaed?

>>19838491
Look at the data, like the difference in volumes. The ZRX example had a maximum of 600-900K in borrowed outstanding at its peak. That can easily be explained by retail tradering speculators who don’t always do the smartest thing.

>>19838491
>>19838501
Incase you missed it BAT has 45M in borrowed outstanding held by 351 people. Thats an average ~130K per person and the distribution is certainly not normal like that.

>>19836819
Thanks OP, you really are a good guy
>>19837151
Also based portfolio, I've started recently as a hobby but I'm also using altcoins to accumulate BTC. Less risk long term for sure.

>>19836146
It's being used for yield farming for COMP you fucking retards, they don't give a shit about BAT price, just about how much COMP they can earn.

>>19838523
I’ve already thoroughly debunked that if you’d just read the thread.

>>19838437
Here let me make it simple for you since you are a literal brainlet and the people following along will be able to make sense of how stupid you are.

https://compound.finance/governance/comp

538 comp a day to suppliers and 538 comp a day to buyers. The whales can farm both ends.

Now remember these rates are APR. The interest paid to maintain the debt is $42,038.39 per day.

The peak price of COMP was somewhere around $310.

Ok now let's put it all together. 1076 comp multiplied by $310 = $333,560

Oh but what about that $42k in daily interest? Yeah just subtract that from $333k and you are left with your daily comp farming profit. There you go.

>>19838534
You are totally disregarding the 11% they would have to pay to Compound, which of 119M is $13,000,000. Yeah math checks out man. You continue to embarrass yourself.

>>19838534
oh man i guess i need to read up on this shit. my brain is melting

>>19838534
Not even entertaining the possibility you could farm COMP while still performing a short, also not acknowledging the discrepancy between 3,800 lenders and 350 borrowers.

>>19838462
What's the difference with leverage trading or using futures though? What are pros and cons?

>>19838579
Depends on how the products are structured. Leverage trading on Bitmex is different than leverage trading with compound. Futures on Binance are different to futures on CBOE, you need to read the product documentation

>>19838550
That's not how that works. The interest is paid out to the lender which is now $48,000 per day. The only thing more dangerous than a retard is a retard that knows just enough to be dangerous.

Not even sure who I'm replying too anymore. Possibly two retards that cant figure out COMP farming and are unironically bearish on BAT when they should be bullish.

>>19837490
Completely agree though. Bitcoin getting to the market cap of gold isn't so far off if you consider its inflation rate getting lower and lower and how much more convenient it is compared to gold.
The only thing that worries me is that BTC has been a bit too correlated to the S&P500 in the last few months. If it keeps crashing with the stock market because of trading bots and such, people will never consider it as an alternative to commodities.

>>19838595
Ok thanks a lot OP, I'll read into it

>>19838578
How do you perform a short if your BAT is likely not on an exchange and you are double dipping on leverage? There has to be both lenders and borrowers to prop up the COMP distribution or else you have a lopsided market.

What is likely happening here is 300 or so borrowers are playing both sides of the market to farm COMP. This could even include them borrowing their lended BAT and then re lending it for more leverage up to a point where there isn't unsafe collateral. The other 50 borrowers and 3000 lenders are minnows that are borrowing and lending small sums. I'm personally lending a small sum to try the platform out. It's only a couple thousand BAT, but if you look at etherscan theres thousands of people lending a 50-100 BAT, and a whale would not do this because gas costs would eat them alive.

This is a COMP farming play, not some big elaborate mega short.

>>19837659
Lmao I was saying this earlier. Op is literally retarded and the only crypto he makes is pressing mine on pi ap. Why didnt he short ox following his same logic and why doesn’t he short bat?

>>19838726
OP is a literal brainlet. Hes in here larping as a giga brain and dropping "knowledge bombs" on everyone.

It only took a couple posts and now his "big short" narrative is completely crushed. He hyped up this post so hard when it should have been saged before it got to three replies.

I'm going long on BAT here. It's getting more and more defi interest, and the platform is growing exponentially. It's probably a bad idea to short BAT considering publisher ads and the pay with BAT button is already finished. All it takes is one release out of nowhere and you are margin called. Just buy BAT and wait. Even better if you start accumulating heavy and go for the interest on defi platforms.

>>19838895
please enlighten me on where I have gone wrong.
>Suppliers are rewarded 20.29% BAT to supply.
>Borrowers pay 29.47% BAT to borrow.
>For a COMP farmer to be profitable, they must make greater than the 9.18% difference.
>Based on current supply and borrowings ($85.94m supply and $68.29m borrowed), a COMP token farmers will need to pay $2.68m in interest over a year. $17.43m in interest is paid to suppliers and 20.12m in interest is paid by borrowers. That is $2.68m per year in extra interest paid by the market or $7,342 USD per day.
>680.71 COMP tokens awarded to both borrowers and suppliers per day. That is $417,955 USD per day.
>The market has a net gain of $400,000 USD ($417,955 - $7,342) per day based on the COMP that has been renumerated.
Surely this can’t be right?, the COMP awared seems far too much. If it is correct, how do I short COMP?

>>19839107
I'm not fully up to date on the token scheme for COMP, and as far as I'm aware it's just a governance token and there is no utility beyond voting. They might add some fee structure at a later point or vote on one for people that hold the governance token. I think the team also has an insane amount locked in escrow.

At a quick glance it looks like this is just a quick cash grab for people that are smart enough to farm as much as possible and sell as quick as possible before the market figures out what it actually is.

The compound platform is great, but right now it seems like the token is over valued and in a mini bubble. If someone a little more knowledgeable on the token wants to chime in then that would be cool. All I know is that they are easy to farm and they are selling for a pretty penny. A guy in my group picked up almost 2k BAT in a single day after selling his COMP he collected basically accidentally.

>>19836146

imagine holding cryptoshit in 2020

>>19839368
but didn't you hear?

crypto is a new asset class! Digital gold! We're so early! $400,000 bitcoin!

Where did you go op? Still think this is the big short? top kek