/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>19806983
>a whole general for a billion dollar cap coin that mooned
ahh I remember when I was new and naive

News:
Transactions Per Day - See pic related. After last week's pull back, we have recovered nicely this week and have held in the 12.5 thousands/day range. Current transaction totals seems like we should hold that amount through today as well.
XMR Added to largest Iranian exchange - https://pro.exir.io/trade/xmr-irt
Dr. Sarang Funding request -- https://ccs.getmonero.org/proposals/sarang-2020-q3.html
>>19807004
Most of us don't care about the price in the short term. We use Monero because of its privacy features, and we think there is usecase potential in the future as currencies continue to go digital. Monero is on track to take over the dark net, and the rising transactions over the past year is parallel to the current second largest dark net market place (whm) that is monero only.

>>19807108
>Most of us don't care about the price in the short term.

This, I use Monero as a proxy Bank account. I've visited Venezeula many times and seen Hyperinflation first hand. I'm not concerned with the price and I'm not a Moonboy. I use Monero as a hedge against the USD/GBP.

what's the electrum wallet of monero?

>>19807776
mymonero and cakewallet are popular.

>>19807749
can you repost this again but to a brainlet

>>19807776
off by one
mymonero is good

>>19807749
Monero is literally freedom
From govt taking your assets
From govt degrading your assets through inflation
From work if you buy enough and hold
I love this shit

>>19807004
And now you're old and still naive.

Maybe you're right, the coin mooned and it's not going to grow beyond its current role as the currency of choice for illegal commerce. But it's my belief that it also has the lowest downside risk of any coin in the entire market. Even if the wild ideas and decentralized utopias promised by so many blockchain projects all go up in smoke, even if Satoshi Nakamoto himself returns from exile with the message: "blockchain was a mistake", even if bloodthirsty permabears roll up raping and pillaging today's biggest projects and any other shitcoins that dare cross their path: even in that world, Monero keeps chugging along. Why? People need it. It actually solves a real problem that people have *right now*, and it does it best. Darknet market operators and big vendors are risking their free lives by operating, and they choose Monero. Even if all of crypto appears in danger from a horrible new bear market, they're not going to sell it off, stop using it, and move their money into some other asset. Because they aren't speculating on Monero with spare shekels in the first place, they're betting on it with their lives.

And that's just considering risk, what about potential? You could easily be wrong about Monero having already mooned. It's quite possible that Bitcoin true believers will one day figure out that all the beautiful potential they see in their coin, the promise of secure, decentralized, censorship-resistant money, is fully realized only in Monero. and that their leadership is far too crippled by politics and selfish interests to address Bitcoin's problems. Should that ever happen, you'll have to reevaluate what "mooned" looks like.

(I guess this is more of a pep talk for my Monero bros, since I doubt the low-effort shill I'm replying to will bother reading.)

>>19807004
You're retarded if you don't think XMR is a true top 5 coin. XMR continues to be the best ASIC resistant, TRUE privacy coin.

>>19806983
Why hasn't LOKI been added to the pasta yet I don't get it

https://www.forbes.com/sites/siladityaray/2020/06/17/fbi-used-etsy-linkedin-to-track-down-protester-accused-of-setting-cop-car-ablaze/#1d1cf40c2460

You already live in a surveillance state, Anons.

"I think that the only effective defense against the coming surveillance dystopia is one where you take steps yourself to safeguard your privacy, because there's no incentive for self-restraint by the people that have the capacity to intercept everything. A historical analogy could be how people learned that they should wash their hands. That required the germ theory of disease to be established and then popularized, and for paranoia to be instilled about the spread of disease via invisible stuff on your hands that you can't see, just as you can't see mass interception. Once there was enough understanding, soap manufacturers produced products that people consumed to relieve their fear. It's necessary to instill fear in people so they understand the problem before they will create enough demand to solve the problem."

>>19810932
Because we don’t endorse shitcoins

>>19810932
Your coin is bad and you should feel bad

I have a 3600X with fast RAM and a Vega 56/64 GPU. Is it correct that I should only mine on the CPU?

>>19811258
Check out whattomine dot com and see if they still offer a comparison for specific gpus. You could always try both and see which generates a higher rate.

>>19811324
I looked for hashrates for my hardware and it tells me my CPU is 4 times better than my GPU while consuming 2-3 times less power. Talking about RandomX

"Creating an electronic currency is a big deal precisely because control over the medium of exchange is one of the three ingredients of a state." "If you take away the state's monopoly over the means of economic interaction, then you take away one of the three principal ingredients of a state. In the model of the state as a mafia, where the state is a protection racket, the state shakes people down for money in every possible way. Controlling currency flows is important for revenue-raising by the state, but it is also important for simply controlling what people do- incentivizing one thing, disincentivizing another thing, completely banning a certain activity, or an organization, or interactions between organizations." "Government regulation has made particular financial players kings and doesn't allow other market entrants. Economic freedom has been impinged by an elite group that is able to influence both regulation and the principles involved in these banks."

Muh privacy
Gonna make it bro’s
Early bro’s only 8 yr old shit coin
Fomoooo
Muh coin
Muh government keepin me down

Every dead bag holder

>>19812542
Hello, Faggot!

New anons, meet Elmer FUD.

Care to have a conversation with complete sentences today, Elmer?

Fudders get out
Bro he’s probably a whale accumulating out 8 yard old coin fomooooooooooo

Millionaires bro’s

Monero is only good coin besides bitcoin- word for word quote by a monero bag holder yesterday

Fomoooooooo
Muh coin
Muh privacy
Normjes missing out

Thanks for bumping the thread glowfudder <3

Fudding is bullish so he’s doing us a favor thanks for the bumps

Only gets bumped and replies by trolls

Yeah this coin is going somewhere to the mooooooooo

Muh utility hackers bro
We’re all cyber punks

>>19812730
As I typed my last post a monero bag holder is saying exactly what I typed “thanks for the bumps””

Lol can’t make this shyt up

Only get replies by trolls and pajeets
It actually happened lol

Mooooning bro’s

Muh coin

We’re all in this together bro’s
Warning this is a scam

>>19806983
If the feds really wanted to, couldn't they just pay a security firm several millions of dollars to find an exploit that would allow them to see the blockchain?

https://asia.nikkei.com/Spotlight/Comment/China-takes-battle-for-cryptocurrency-hegemony-to-new-stage
>At a meeting of the Chinese People's Political Consultative Conference, a political advisory body, at the Great Hall of the People in Beijing from May 21, 10 members proposed a plan to create a digital currency consisting of the Chinese yuan, Japanese yen, South Korean won and Hong Kong dollar.
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/digital-dollar-real-financial-inclusion-192508257.html
>On Thursday the House Financial Services Committee (FSC) Task Force on Financial Technology convened on Capitol Hill to discuss the possible role of a digital dollar in distributing COVID-19 relief payments. The watchdogs discussed FedAccounts, or cryptographic wallets held by the Federal Reserve, for commercial banking services. The National Science Foundation, an independent branch of the federal government, has given blockchain startup KRNC $225,000 to design cryptocurrency features for the U.S. dollar.

State sponsored digital currency and total financial surveillance. Coming soon to your country.

>>19812805
>>19812778
>>19812740
>>19812710

Thank you for the bumps, basedfaggot

>>19807004
1B is next to nothing for such technology.

>>19812894
Not for XMR. The privacy features are built into the protocol. To "see" the blockchain would mean you'd have to take every txn ever completed on the XMR chain and run it through a new protocol. This is assuming you can ID every txn prior to the analysis.

It cannot be done. By design.

>>19812894
They have done this anon. Chain analysis companies have said time and time again that they can not trace Monero.

>>19812995
>>19813046

That's what happens when your dev team prioritizes the product over the marketing. They leave it to the community to spread the word, and here we are.

Threadly reminder that XMR is the comfiest hold

>>19813174
>>19812995
I've been shilling it since 2017. Not a huge holder of an unknown amount by any measure, but transparent distributed ledgers are coming to governments and financial firms MUCH sooner than any of your politicians or C-level suites realize. By that time it'll be too late for people who missed the boat.

>>19810994
>>19811969
>>19812642
>>19812910
It would be a good idea to actually go outside and paste a bunch of these everywhere. Get out your printers, and make as many people aware of Monero as possible.

>>19813463
We should target Hong Kong. They hate their currency and they are tech savvy enough to understand Monero.

>>19813661
>They hate their currency and they are tech savvy enough to understand Monero.
Are there any online Hong Kong forums where we could spread the word around Monero, and tell people to place flyers everywhere? Is there any promotional Monero work featuring Chinese text?

>>19813913
We need someone from Hong Kong to help on the ground and to help explain what exactly is going on over there. For example, I know for a fact that there was a news article talking about funds that were sent to represent people arrested were frozen by the government. Perfect use case for monero.

>>19814529
Here: https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2019/dec/20/hong-kong-police-seize-10m-in-donations-intended-for-protesters

>>19814725
use an archival service next time
https://archive.vn/5KvmD

>>19814820
Thx

>>19813214
>tfw comfy

0xMonero

Monero is literally pedocoin

Why else you would need 100% privacy?

For the uninitiated:
wikipedia.org/wiki/Cypherpunk

I'd also recommend:
wikipedia.org/wiki/Agorism
But this is me personally, not the xmr community at large

>>19806983
I like the utility of this coin but dont own a single one. I might use it one day if my country gets commie about crypto

>>19815679
This is barely even bait. If you can't think of reasons why you wouldn't want your finances surveilled that don't involve pedophilia, you're a fuckin brainlet, a bootlicker, a pedo, or all three.

>>19815738
When (not if) that happens it's gonna be tougher to obtain and more expensive.

>>19806983
whats the best miner right now for nvidia.
whats gonna hash the best?

>>19815855
a CPU

Who is tacotime?

>>19815886
MINERGATE, XMRIG.. ETC
FOR FUCKS SAKE KIKE.
WHICH ONE.

>>19815766
ok, if not pedo coin then crime coin in general.

Why else would you care if not to evade law?

Not saying that is a bad thing. Crime is not going away, so monero will always be useful.

>>19815900
why not try both and see which performs the best retard

>>19815901
>Why else would you care if not to evade law?
Post up your latest bank statement to BIZ right now if you don't care about Privacy

>>19815926
fuck this coin.

>>19815825
But I can always get it on decentralized exchanges right? And I dont really think we will get super authoritharian, I will just use it to avoid crypto tax if they ever implement it

>>19806983
Xmr is solid & I hold it jic
just wondering
are you all pedos & druggies?
pic unrelated

>>19815901
Because laws are often unjust, and dissent is often criminalized.

>>19815989
We are cypherpunks.

>>19815901
People who object to a global totalitarian surveillance state are not criminals. Yet.

>>19816110
>Because laws are often unjust, and dissent is often criminalized.
>We are cypherpunks
>People who object to a global totalitarian surveillance state are not criminals. Yet.
Kk, cool we all got a thing...
They taught me not to say shit like that out loud in aba - but rock on with your bad self

>>19815941
false equivelence, only autists care about privacy like that, normal people don't care. Gov sees everything anyway. I'm just being real. Unless you are terrorist, druggie or pedo you don't really need some obscure altcoin to hide your dark market assets. You just don't. Normies don't.

And if you are a normie, doing legal normie things and want 100% anonymity still, then you are just an autist incel retard.

I understand criminals using monero for its purposes, but when average tinfoil joe incel is afraid of his bank seeing his dragon dildo purchases then it's just laughable.

can someone explain how monero is anonymous while all other coins are not?

>>19816068
wait, so you admitted my point
you don't want to follow law, so you need a crime coin
crime = not following law, by definition

that is all well and good, I support that. I also believe crime coin is needed. I don't support idiot incels who hoard cryptocurrency, because "much privacy", when they don't really have anything illegal to hide. It's just stupid and naive.

>>19816110
tinfoiler incel detected

>>19815766
>If you can't think of reasons why you wouldn't want your finances surveilled that don't involve pedophilia, you're a fuckin brainlet, a bootlicker, a pedo, or all three.
We could take down all the major banks with cryptocurrencies if we could get them to become popular enough. We could even destroy tax collection, since it would be impossible for the state to know how much we're making.

>>19816366
easy with the autsie talk mutherfucker
if it wasnt for our advances humans would still be swinging from trees in africa

>>19816366
>Unless you are terrorist, druggie or pedo you don't really need some obscure altcoin to hide your dark market assets. You just don't. Normies don't.
Imagine living in an oppressive, destructive totalitarian society.

>>19816366
See>>19810994

It was autistic to care about germs and wash your hands until normies realized it was an effective way to combat disease. We'll probably need some tumors to pop up (and arguably cancel culture is one of the first big ones) for people to realize the value of privacy.

>>19816423
You severly underestimate how retarded average person is. 80% of people are to stupid to buy crypto even if you gave them yt tutorial

>>19816366
Yeah this is the same nonsense as not caring the social media sites routinely sell your data.
Perhaps your country is well of with freedoms, but what about if you lived in an authoritarian dictatorship? What if you actually needed censorship resistance to make a living?
Saying only druggies need privacy is the same nonsense that went on when bitcoin first became popular on the dark net. It was a drug coin and a pedo coin they said.
>>19816381
It’s privacy is built into the base layer. It uses ring signatures to obfuscate the sender, stealth addresses to shield the recipient, and ring ct to mask the transaction amounts. It’s blockchain is completely opaque, meaning we have no way of telling who sends who what.

>>19816458
> Imagine living in an oppressive, destructive totalitarian society.

Bla bla bla more gay tinfoiler incel tales based on feelings and nothing else. Factually speaking, you can't admit that if you aren't doing illegal or shady shit you don't need your fucking TOR or cryptos. If you are doing everything 100% legal and still choose to use TOR and cryptos you are just an incel outcast autist. Sorry, but it is true and you are seething because you know it.

Again, I have no issues with people who break law and use these tools so they don't go to jail, that is understandable.

>>19816521
>he thinks authoritarian governments don’t exist
Lmfao

>>19816423
> We could even destroy tax collection, since it would be impossible for the state to know how much we're making.

Gay fantasy that will never happen. Government, you know, men with guns won't allow this to happen. They will severely penalise usage of cryptos and figure out a way to control it and get their fair share of tax. Inb4 "u can't ban mafths!" autism

>>19816535
if you live in China, North Korea or Russia and need to hide money, sure use crypto.

If you live in US and want to buy some mugs from ebay, but choose to buy them from obscure crypto sites instead, because you can use your precious internet coins then you are just being a naive fool and very possibly a neckbeard outcast

>>19816521
You'd want to be using monero all the time if it meant you could get away from paying taxes to a wasteful government that's always screwing you over. You'd also want to know how to use Tor if you'd with to be connected with the outside world instead of remaining in the little cyber bubble the state and banks have created for you.

>>19816492
> Yeah this is the same nonsense as not caring the social media sites routinely sell your data.

I don't give a fuck that they sell my data.

How does it harm you?

If your data isn't something that can get you in trouble why the fuck should you care what they "sell" and just use whatever is convenient?

You contrarians for sake of being anti-normie make me sick. It's so lame.

> Perhaps your country is well of with freedoms, but what about if you lived in an authoritarian dictatorship? What if you actually needed censorship resistance to make a living?

"What if what if what if"

>>19816560
You can’t ban monero. Explain to me how you would do it. Go on, I’ll wait right here. Outside of banning electricity, it would be impossible.

>>19816492
So if I buy Monero with BTC etc is the transaction with Monero %100 anonymous?

>>19816560
>They will severely penalise usage of cryptos and figure out a way to control it and get their fair share of tax.
That's why we're always fighting against this, anon. Cryptocurrencies were created in the first place to fight the state and the banks. It took a long time for Bitcoin to come out, and people were thinking of ways to create create cryptocurrencies all the way back in the early 80s. It took nearly thirty years before the first cryptocurrency finally came out, and it was mostly thanks to the libertarian cypherpunks of the 90s.

>>19816604
>I don't give a fuck that they sell my data.
>How does it harm you?
You are such a fucking retard..
You are honestly one of the dumbest people I have ever come across on 4chan..

>>19816604
Selling your data and mining it is a massive affront against your civil liberties. Not caring that some jerkoff is collecting your data is the most basic bitch mentality possible.
And nice response against my actual use case scenarios. Your just a boring troll who doesn’t realize that digital currency is the future for most developed nations and that monero is the best hedge against this.

>>19816583
Yeah dumbass, that was my point.

If I could and would be able to evade taxes you can BET YOUR ASS I'd use monero.

Yes, but that is CRIME. So it only proves my point. Monero should be used FOR ILLEGAL ACTIVITIES. If you use monero for NON ILLEGAL, NORMAL, LEGAL ACTIVITIES then you are a DUMBASS who likes to larp as cyberpunk badass.

I already said. YES, if you need to prevent gov spying on you, use TOR. If you want to google normal things and use TOR for that then it means you are not using it out of utility, but out of larping, which is infantile as fuck

>>19816604
>I don't give a fuck that they sell my data.
They create a whole profile on you. Not just on what you like and what you don't like, but also on your entire personality and mental health. Collecting all of this data makes it easier for corporations and the banks to manipulate and exploit you.

>>19809867
they're not though. A majority of darkweb commerce is still being done in BTC

>>19816652
>who likes to larp as cyberpunk badass.
The goal of the cypherpunks is to get as many people onboard to use cryptocurrencies, since the more people who use them, the more powerful they become. The more powerful cryptocurrencies become, the weaker the banks become.

>>19816625
An exchange would know you had monero. But that’s it. Once you send monero to your personal wallet none of what you do with it will ever be known.
If you are concerned about giving kyc info you can use local monero or bisq

Ghost will replace Monero.

>>19816652
>Yes, but that is CRIME. So it only proves my point. Monero should be used FOR ILLEGAL ACTIVITIES. If you use monero for NON ILLEGAL, NORMAL, LEGAL ACTIVITIES then you are a DUMBASS
I use Monero for Legal Activities dumbass.
Monero isn't just for buying drugs brainlet

>>19816703
>Ghost will replace Monero.
Okay faggot... Whatever
How much are you down today? -10.38%

>>19816652
I use monero to buy normal things all the time. The beauty of monero is that it functions as digital cash. So even though most of its use — like bitcoins today — is through speculation or marketplaces, it can also be used for illicit activists.
If you care so much about illegal use, why aren’t you ranting about dollars? You do realize that drugs are purchased with dollars right?

>>19816615
CASE 1: I sell land plot. Indicate price in contract "10k$ in monero", gov sees its below market price, "did you declare taxes on that? ok, you got to pay taxes now based on average market price then or you go to jail"

CASE 2: I want to pay for rendering sevices, let's say construction work. Oh, I need to pay 25% upfront. I pay by monero 100% anonymous. Contractor disappears. I can't do anything. "Yeah, he never paid me". And if you can prove "he did pay me" then you can't escape the TAX part, can it, because now you've made that info public.

CASE 3: I order new laptop online, pay by monero without tax and anything. Get scammed. No laptop, no monero. Want to pursue legal action. "Sorry, we don't deal with pedo coins"

Buying from ebay you have buyers protection and can chargeback when being scammed.

Having shit like Monero for normie use will means people will send to wrong address and will be scamming each other and big daddy government won't help, because you choose to evade tax.

And then they will control the ramp-off and ramp-on points. So sites like xmr.to will be controlled. Localbitcoins ALREADY forbid real life transactions, only online transactions.
Sure they can't control blockchain, but they sure can control centralised ramp-off ramp-on points.

inb4 "muh decentralised exchanges" you STILL need ramp-off, ramp-on point for fiat->crypto. That can be controlled. Running unlicensed money exchange operation? 10 years in jail. GG

>>19816709
>Monero isn't just for buying drugs brainlet
If it were, it wouldn't hold any value, therefore rendering it useless for buying drugs.

>>19816604
this is about $ for me. I am not okay with someone/some algo/some anything tracking any purchase history, social media usage, or anything. At the the end of the day that data is being sold, and its giving some shithead c-level suit big fat bonuses because they met certain "key performance indicators" or "identified new emerging trends". If you're okay with sucking corporate dick for your "free" social media, banking, etc, you're no different than a boot licker who pays for the government to fuck them.

>>19816645
>You are such a fucking retard..
>You are honestly one of the dumbest people I have ever come across on 4chan.

cool argument sure convinced me.

>>19816734
Case one: yeah, so pay your taxes
Case two: what is escrow
Case three: what is escrow
Normie use will improve as adoption improves.
Xmr.to is already controlled in certain areas. You can use a vpn.

Also, you seem to have a very US centric viewpoint. If a ban were to happen there are numerous countries I can cash out in.

>>19816734
It's clear you have never heard of escrow and don't know what you are talking about

>>19816748
How is monero different than dollars anon?

>>19816734
>Oh, I need to pay 25% upfront. I pay by monero 100% anonymous. Contractor disappears.
In an AnCap society, you would just execute people like that, or at least sentence them to hard labor. Society wouldn't be able to function with people like that around.

>"Sorry, we don't deal with pedo coins"
Monero is fungible, so you can't tell one monero apart from another. Bitcoin isn't fungible. You can easily look up all the bitcoin transfers that have ever taken place, and businesses are less likely to accept bitcoin that was used for illegal activities.

>big daddy government won't help, because you choose to evade tax.
Big daddy government could go fuck themselves in AnCap land, which could largely be achieved through things like cryptocurrencies, including Monero.

>>19816775
>>19816791

hey dumbass, escrow means trusting third entity, right? This third entity is now controllable by government. If this third entity is anonymous, it can just keep your shit.

> Normie use will improve as adoption improves.

Adoption won't increase. Normies had the chance to jump in the last bubble. They saw crypto for what it is - scams, bubble and pedo purchases. And they gave it a hard pass.

> Also, you seem to have a very US centric viewpoint. If a ban were to happen there are numerous countries I can cash out in.

Stop fantasizing. Ok you cash out, how will you travel with your millions in cash? Ok, move to shit 3rd world country India and feel like big boy with your crypto if you want. In a first world country government will never allow that shit.

>>19816834
Dollars go through bank, credit cards, paypals and other type of institutions where sometimes it is useful for accounting purposes, safety, insurance. For example buying stuff with credit card you often have added insurance. You have warranties. You want warranty for that thing you bought with Monero? Good luck. You can have crap sold to you and you won't be able to do shit, because DECENTRALISATION RIGHT? As soon as you want someone to get involved it is centralised and thus can be controlled for tax purposes. "Oh wait, your washing machine broke down and now you want a refund? Sorry, can't do"

>>19816845
> In an AnCap society, you would just execute people like that, or at least sentence them to hard labor. Society wouldn't be able to function with people like that around.

Fantasising childish naivity

> Monero is fungible, so you can't tell one monero apart from another. Bitcoin isn't fungible. You can easily look up all the bitcoin transfers that have ever taken place, and businesses are less likely to accept bitcoin that was used for illegal activities.

I know Monero is "fungible". That is why its #1 pedo coin

>>19816834
Dollars are fiat currency, essentially debt itself, that is, debt to the banks. Fiat currency is borrowed into existence. Monero has way more concrete value, and it's actually more secure than precious metals like gold.

>>19816944
Where did we say we aren’t trust escrow contracts?
And I have no plans on moving to a different country, as I don’t believe monero will get banned.
Adoption is also far improved from 2017. Mobile wallets for monero are way more user friendly. Cake wallet is very popular for example.
There are also numerous first world countries with lax crypto laws, and you are jumping to the conclusion that Monero will be “banned around the world” all at once. That’s not how the world works.
So I ask you again, how is monero different than cash anon? Why isn’t cash illegal if all the bad things monero can be used for can be done with cash?
And regarding adoption increasing, why are monero transactions growing? Go look at the transaction chart I posted above.

>>19816944
>Fantasising childish naivity
There are lots of steps that could take place that would result in AnCap societies popping up. If you destroy the banks, render them obsolete, and make it virtually impossible for the state to collect any form of taxes, then you're really close to getting an AnCap society. Forming a monarchy would also help speed up the process.

>>19816952
Yeah I know, but all of the bad qualities he puts on monero (like drugs and tax evasion) are used with cash on a much larger scale. Yet this anon probably uses cash every day while saying monero is a drug coin.

>>19817081
>Yet this anon probably uses cash every day while saying monero is a drug coin.
What do the feds and banks do when they capture drug money? Do they take it out of circulation or continue to use it until it becomes too worn out, like they do with all the other bank notes?

>>19817046
yes, adoption for criminals improved
comfy wallets now allow to perform crime from your phone
great stuff

thinking this will be useful for average grey NPC normie is pinnacle of naivety.

And if for some weird reason it DOES become the normie currency then you can bet your ass governments will do all possible to restrict it and label anyone caught using monero a terrorist. Most normies won't want to deal with that shit and go back to govcoin

>>19817046
>So I ask you again, how is monero different than cash anon? Why isn’t cash illegal if all the bad things monero can be used for can be done with cash?

Because cash is way more restricting. To perform crime with cash you have to actually meet up and you can't just sent it cross borders in huge quantities. Cash is not as dangerous as a crypto coin and not as convenient for crime. Also, if you haven't noticed, is being restricted more and more. Governments ARE cracking down on cash hard.

>>19816944
Anon, I salute you even though I disagree with you. You're a bootlicker, but you're not retarded. I (we) think it's highly likely that already existing trends in financial surveillance that you're not concerned by are going to metastasize into problems that everyone will be concerned with, and that monero solves those problems. We have different visions of the future, and frankly I hope yours is correct and that the people in power never abuse their power. I wouldn't bet on it, though.

Also >>19816812 topkek

>>19817061
Please stop reading neckbeard weirdo blogs and start living in real world. You will have wasted valuable years on these fallout cyberpunk fantasies and gained nothing for it.

>>19817081
> Yeah I know, but all of the bad qualities he puts on monero (like drugs and tax evasion) are used with cash on a much larger scale. Yet this anon probably uses cash every day while saying monero is a drug coin.

Yeah, and large transactions in cash are getting more and more restricted and more and more banned. Govs eventually want to get rid of cash altogether, and will.

I really cringe at this "but muh cash is even more evil" argument.

No, it is really not. Cash is WAY HARDER to use for crime. It is not "fungible" (god you cringy neckbeards really love this word don't you). It's not fungible, because cash is TRACEABLE. Yes, cash can be traced. Also, it is very restricting. You can't do million dollar crime deals that easy with bags of cash. You have to actually meet up. It is hard to transfer.

Why people still use cash and not monero for crime?
Because it is MORE STABLE.
If you want monero to flourish you better beg governments to BAN CASH since then criminals will have nowhere to go and will have to use bitcoin, ethereum or monero. My prediction is that they will use none of those and will use TETHER instead, because it's actually stable. It isn't hard to create a fake account on some random exchange via TOR, get some tether, transfer to another account for quick transactions. Off-ramping might be harder.

>>19817226
The underground drug economy in the United States is literally trillions of dollars. Pretending that cash isn’t used for crime is so obtuse. Just admit that monero is literally digital cash, and it has all the qualities that cash has. From there, focus on the good that can happen from then instead of having your judgement clouded by being such a bootlicker.
> Also, if you haven't noticed, is being restricted more and more. Governments ARE cracking down on cash hard.
You don’t say? Well, if only there was a p2p form of digital cash that people could use to get around that. Hmmm.
Maybe you’ll figure it out eventually.

>>19817290
>volatility
Finally, an argument from your that’s actually legitimate. Yes, the volatility is bad right now which is why we recommend going long on monero or buying monero to immediately use it.

>>19817290
Criminals are going to Monero because it is anonymous. Why would they use tether lol the whole point of xmr is to be anon.

>>19817290
>You will have wasted valuable years on these fallout cyberpunk fantasies and gained nothing for it.
Cryptocurrencies, the Tor network, secure messaging, hardware security modules, and many more things for security, privacy, and anonymity, wouldn't exist today if it weren't for the massive selfless efforts of the cypherpunks.

I converted all my bitcoins to Monero.

>>19817297
> Just admit that monero is literally digital cash, and it has all the qualities that cash has.

Yes, monero is great digital cash for pedo purchases and doubles as a terror-coin. I never hid this.

Difference is - fiat's value doesn't jump up and down every day and you can still use it to buy a washing machine. I can't buy a washing machine with Monero. I can't get paid by employer with Monero. And if I manage to get paid in Monero and get scammed, I can't sue him, because then it won't be a DECENTRALISED COIN ANYMORE, the moment we reveal our transaction we will be publicly seen to IRS and what not and will need to pay the tax man.

So this 100% anonymity is CONVENIENT only in places where you have to evade law. This is a FACT.

It is not convenient for nobody to know that you are buying a new washing machine with your legally earned salary. Because if that shit breaks down you can prove you bought it and you can take it back and get it replaced. If that shit blows up and years your newborn to shreds then you can file a suit.

Or if you suffer a work injury due to faulty hardware you can prove you work at "X" and can sue them.

If you get scammed there are ways to get money back with banks and fiat.

Now what could be the reason why one would use cash for ANONYMOUS purchases:
- to hide. From whom? IRS, FBI and anyone else who could HARM YOU. And don't pretend with the "Facebook targetting ads harms me" bullshit. It doesn't. Nobody really cares about that "privacy" meme. Privacy is necessary for tax evasion, cheating on your spouse or funding a rebellion. Not for buying bread or watching the news. Anyone who wants to be 100% private at all times and takes a lot of effort in it is just a larping neckbeard who doesn't have better stuff to do with their lives and pretend to be anti-normie cypherphunk hackor to feel better about themselves.
- to literally do crime. Illegal shit.
- Grey areas, potential grey areas.

>>19817314
> Finally, an argument from your that’s actually legitimate. Yes, the volatility is bad right now which is why we recommend going long on monero or buying monero to immediately use it.

Ok, for me to "buy it" and immediately "use it" it is sure a lot of hassle for a normie. Because you also need to buy it anonymously, which is another set of challenges for a regular person.

Bearing in mind that:
1) Due to volatility Monero can't really be held long term like store of value (and neither can any other crypto)
2) In order to actually us it useful things (like illegal shit) you have to jump through hoops to transform it via xmr.to or some other sites using a TOR node that is hopefully not switching up the crypto wallet address.
3) And THEN the other person has to do the same.

ALL while HOPING that during this process everything went smooth and they didn't forget to update TOR to latest version and switch maximum security off and there were no 0 days and XMR value did not fluctuation

Monero will never pass the initial extremely small niche use for it to become big enough for it to NOT have volatility.

You see a small boat rocks when you stand on it, a big ship doesn't.

But there are too many hurdles for this niche crypto coin to become a big ship in the first place.

Due to these hurdles it will forever be obscure and niche and thinking it will be actually used by normies is childish.

>>19813214
it's true

>>19815679
>Why else you would need 100% privacy?

This has to be the most jewish post I've seen in a while.

>>19817388
Those are all great things... for CRIME and greyhat shit.

If you do pure white hat and google "how to prepare apple pie" you won't be using TOR, Signal or anything else (unless you are a mentally deficient tinfoiler larper who doesn't have anything worthwhile going on in life). You will be using first browser you can launch and will message that recipe with first most convenient messaging app you have installed. Be it iMessage, whatsapp, FB messenger or whatever.

That is what 99.99% of people will do because they have ACTUAL WORRIES to think about instead of obsessing in every single step and moment of their lives with thoughts of "am I being watched by government right now????"

For drug dealers, yeah, sure, they would probably find TOR, XMR, Signal, Ricochet and whatever useful.

Let's just not pretend it actually needed for person who isn't working with top security document or breaking the law.

>>19817568
>That is what 99.99% of people will do because they have ACTUAL WORRIES to think about instead of obsessing in every single step and moment of their lives with thoughts of "am I being watched by government right now????"
Corporations, banks, and advertisers are all collecting profiles on you. They know exactly what you like and exactly what you don't like. They're even gathering enough information to know what type of personality you have, so they can better manipulate you into doing and buying what they want. This is high-level brainwashing, which is just becoming possible due to AI.

>>19817462
All monero transactions can be proven through payment ids and view keys. Furthermore, most of your counter arguments hinge on basic escrow contracts, which you are seemingly ignorant about.
>for pedo purchases and doubles as a terror-coin. I never hid this.
Cash is used for this as well, and in far greater amounts
I won't even respond to your last paragraph. All strawmen and you ignore all of our counter arguments.
>>19817512
You do not need to buy Monero anonymously. That is the whole point. If you buy it, nobody knows what you do with your Monero afterward. MONERO CANT BE TRACED. So you can abide by KYC laws by getting it at any of dozens of exchanges and then use it.
>Due to volatility Monero can't really be held long term like store of value (and neither can any other crypto)
why not? It was only 1 dollar a few years ago. It will continue to rise.
>n order to actually us it useful things (like illegal shit) you have to jump through hoops to transform it via xmr.to or some other sites using a TOR node that is hopefully not switching up the crypto wallet address.
you have actually no idea what you are talking about here. like there are at least three things wrong with this sentence. It's actually impressive how little you understand what you are fudding.
>And THEN the other person has to do the same.
wow, having a monero wallet is so difficult
>ALL while HOPING that during this process everything went smooth and they didn't forget to update TOR to latest version and switch maximum security off and there were no 0 days and XMR value did not fluctuation
Monero has nothing to do with Tor. This just shows how little you understand how blockchains work, or how Monero works. Complete ignorance. You sound like a fool.
>Due to these hurdles it will forever be obscure and niche and thinking it will be actually used by normies is childish.
They said the same thing about bitcoin when it was first used on the darknet.

>>19817645
> Corporations, banks, and advertisers are all collecting profiles on you.

Ok, and?

> They know exactly what you like and exactly what you don't like.

Wow, someone is about to show me a banner ad of stuff I might actually like... THIS IS AWFUL!!!

> They're even gathering enough information to know what type of personality you have, so they can better manipulate you into doing and buying what they want.

And where is harm in this?

> This is high-level brainwashing, which is just becoming possible due to AI.

You are contradicting yourself. It would be brainwashing if they tried to sell me something I DO NOT WANT TO BUY. If they want to sell me something I WOULD WNAT TO BUY then it is not brainwashing my definition as they are providing already what interests me.

If you are such a tool that a banner ad of new purse brainwashes you then you have bigger problems than anonymity. Everyone uses AdBlock anyway these days and only complete normie placenta-for-a-brain tards can be "brainwashed" by big scary ads that try to show you things you might like instead of things you might hate.

You just hate it because the story sounds so evil, but in reality going full tinfoil for this means you just don't value your time and don't have anything better to do with your life.

IF you believed you are being spied in order to organise your folder for concentration camp wagon, then I'd understand your worries, but ads? WHO. GIVES. A. FUCK

You know, if I have to watch an ad I'd rather watch an ad of something I'd like instead of something I don't like.

And yes, your political opinion can be swayed, but right now its swayed by contrarian edgelords, so what's the difference anyway? Think for yourself

>>19815738
at that point it may be to later for your sir.

>>19817648
> All monero transactions can be proven through payment ids and view keys. Furthermore, most of your counter arguments hinge on basic escrow contracts, which you are seemingly ignorant about.

ESCROW is third person holding your funds.
So third person is in control now.
They might release or they might not.
If they don't you normally would sue or something like that
But you want 100% anonymity right? Well, can't have safety then.
You can't have an escrow service that checks for item delivered and then releases Monero without being centralised. Centralisation defeats purpose because that info can be gathered by agencies. Why this doesn't work? Because ORACLES are a MEME that don't work by definition. ORACLES CAN'T WORK! Where input from real world is required (did I receive shipment of item or not, was item in good quality) there your oracle goes out to shit. It's a MEME, wake up

>>19817749
there are literally thousands of websites that have escrow concepts.
Also, I don't care if the person im sending monero to knows I have monero. What I don't want them to know is HOW MUCH MONERO I HAVE, AND WHAT OTHER MONERO TRANSACTIONS I HAVE PREVIOUSLY MADE

>>19817648
> Cash is used for this as well, and in far greater amounts

Stop parroting this meme phrase, I explained many times why it's a false equivalence. Cash is also used for lots of normal things because it's convenient and traditionally used that way. But your Monero is used pretty much for gambling and illegal shit and that is how it will remain no matter how hard you prey for the fallout cypherpunk apocalypse takeover

> You do not need to buy Monero anonymously.

Dumbass if you want to do some bad shit you don't even want anyone to be aware you are into crypto. If FBI catches 3 suspects and one of them is very into privacy oriented cryptos, that will set up a red flag.

The fact that Monero CANNOT be traced means it is pretty much USELESS for legitimate purchases, because most stuff you buy you actually want to have proof of that you bought. When you buy a new car you don't want to get cat in bag, you want warranty.

"But muh payment ids and view keys" THEN IT IS NOT ANONYMOUS ANYMORE AND DEFEATS THE PURPOSE. You can't have both.


Also, nice moment ignoring the fact CASH CAN BE TRACED, it has serial numbers. It is not fungible.


Monero for non-crime uses has ADDED COMPLEXITY, and ADDED RISK (easier to send to wrong address, easier to get hacked, easier to get scammed).

Why in the world would a normie NPC EVER use something that is MORE complicated than paypal, MORE risky than paypal to buy his loaf of bread at bakery when they could just use a NORMAL CREDIT CARD. Just why?

Think about it logically. It's all a dream.

Be realistic. Some people still haven't woken up from 2017 and think crypto is Jesus second coming.

It has niche use. Mostly crime and speculation and gay dapps.

> It will continue to rise.

Just proving the speculation bullshit argument. "Yeah, totally safe bro, gonna, rise, here is 100K$, ok 50k$ now, but keep le hodl, it will totally rise LONG TERM"

That's about it really. There is your crypto. Enjoy

>>19817780
Ok genius.

Riddle me this.

I hold Monero.

I order a laptop from eBay for 1000$ in Monero.

It:
1) arrives in empty box
2) doesn't arrive
3) Arrives, but turns out it has some huge defect that prevents it from working properly

how will your "escrow" help me in this case? Please address each case.

Second scenario:
My employer says he will pay me 1000$ in Monero at end of month.
He doesn't.
What do I do now?
Go to Mr. Government and show our agreement and say "he should have paid me, please make him pay me"?
And gov does what?

>>19817648
>They said the same thing about bitcoin when it was first used on the darknet.

And they were right. Bitcoin is still used by nothing but speculation and idiot criminals, because they don't know monero has better privacy.

You proved my point.

I know very well how your private monero blockchain works.

It's all a fantasy that you cling to and hope to get vindicated once this thing "goes mainstream".

It tried in 2017, it failed. It never went "mainstream". Most people think cryptos are complicated and dumb.

"installing wallet is simple". Yeah for normie installing on Android one of those infected scam wallets or just getting a hacked device is so simple. Or phone lost. You can't go to bank office and reclaim access.

Nobody needs that. And nobody will use it.

The more you call me names, the more it shows how insecure you are in your own arguments. Easier to claim "I don't know shit" than to admit truth that your precious mexican coin is not as needed to society as you originally thought.

>>19817868
>My employer says he will pay me 1000$ in Monero at end of month.
>He doesn't.
>What do I do now?
>Go to Mr. Government and show our agreement and say "he should have paid me, please make him pay me"?
>And gov does what?
Monero payment IDs and view keys solve that problem. You could use a payment ID that's attached to a transaction along with a view key to prove that someone sent you money, but without them, you won't be able to prove anything.

Seriously.

These retards THINK that a CRYPTOCURRENCY, especially a 100% ANONYMOUS crypto like Monero WILL EVER become mainstream.

Things needed for currency to be mainstream:
1) I can get paid in it my employer. Maintaining my benefits
2) I can use it for purchases at the store.
3) It is easy to use.
4) It is stable.

For it to be stable it has to have higher liquidity, higher market cap. It has to be a huge tanker not a small boat. But for it to become that it has to actualy be used by normies mainstream. But they won't, because it is NOT stable. So it's a catch 22.

And if they DO start using it they will quickly realise the pitfalls of actual use day by day as their wallets get lost, hacked, they get scammed left and right (because Monero is anonymous right).

"But government will adopt Monero"

NO they won't. Why the FUCK would they adopt uncontrollable crime coin? Just why? They would rather create their own traceable E-dollar Token.

If anything Bitcoin would be better because it can be actually traced.

You have entire structures established to prevent customers from being scammed. That is why the whole stock market system is so complex, because before all of the restrictions it was ridden with scams.

Stop parroting and preaching speaking points from /r/monero and open your eyes to objective reality. Cryptocurrencies ARE NOT suited for every day use UNLESS actual cash is banned, because then CRIMINALS will want to use this CRYPTO instead of the cash they would have used BEFORE the ban.

Seeing how cash is on its way to being obsolete and pretty much banned in many areas, eventually it simply won't exist. There will be e-EUR, e-USD, e-YUAN and what not.

So in that case people will use stuff like btc or xmr to do some shady shit like paying under table, avoiding tax or buying illegal goods. But even then it will suck because of volatility.

>>19817982
So if they don't send me money that they are obliged to send me, what then? Government institutions won't help me, because its crypto-anarchist XMR pedo coin that employer agreed to use. What now? Swindled.

>>19817826
>Stop parroting this meme phrase
It's true though. Cash is used on such a larger scale of illegal activities but it is not thought of as a bad thing.
>If FBI catches 3 suspects and one of them is very into privacy oriented cryptos, that will set up a red flag.
You fundamentally don't understand Monero dude. Once you transfer it off of an exchange it can't be traced. We have 12k transactions each day, and whether you choose to believe this or not, many of them are for legitimate purposes
>THEN IT IS NOT ANONYMOUS ANYMORE AND DEFEATS THE PURPOSE. You can't have both.
You provide these things willingly and it confirms a specific transaction. It does not show anything else.
>Also, nice moment ignoring the fact CASH CAN BE TRACED, it has serial numbers. It is not fungible.
Yeah I know about this. Only makes Moneros value even stronger imo
> in the world would a normie NPC EVER use something that is MORE complicated than paypal
For all the reasons we have stated previously. Again, you are not considering authoritarian governments, you are ignoring the problems with fiat's erosion in purchasing power, and you are ignoring the long term improvements in adoption.
>Be realistic. Some people still haven't woken up from 2017 and think crypto is Jesus second coming.
And that's reflective of the price.
>>19817868
1. I've never used ebay, but yo uwould put in a claim with ebay, and they would know who the seller is based on whatever information the seller has to put in. You would have this same problem with cash.
2. You would get in writing your contract and then make a claim in small claims court. Again, this is something that happens with regular money.
>>19817912
Bitcoin is worth how much now compared to in 2012?

>>19818006
so long as you show proof of contract the government would honor it. If the contract was for gold it would be honored. if the contract was for x, it would have to be honored.
>>19817985
Be your own bank is a concept that has been around for ages. It is why Gold is very popular.
Many issues you have here are based on a lack of regulation, which is fair, but that's reflective of the current price and where we are with adoption. If you think Monero adoption is going to decrease from here, then I think you are very mistaken.
If you can't handle being your own bank, then enjoy your fiat anon. Many of your arguments (they are all over the place, not worth going into each one unless you want to pick one) are based on the assumption that Monero will be banned, that Monero is impossible for normies to use, and that Monero is only used by evil terrorist pedos. It's a lot of exaggeration.
>"But government will adopt Monero"
Who said this? The government has tax laws and you should follow them.
Consider anon: if somebody is laundering money the govenrment will know about this. And in that regard, that person will face the consequences. It's not like you can purchase a house with Monero and expect the feds not to ask how the fuck you got that money.

>>19818006
>What now? Swindled.
Legally, if there's no proof of it, the law will act as if it didn't happen.

>>19817912
>"installing wallet is simple". Yeah for normie installing on Android one of those infected scam wallets or just getting a hacked device is so simple. Or phone lost. You can't go to bank office and reclaim access.

zengo allows for recovery of crypto assets, monero supports multi-sig. So you could have a 2/3 multi-sig to achieve the same thing. WITHOUT A BANK OR GOVERNMENT.

Before the internet went mainstream, there were very few products out there that made the internet easy to use. This is because dev stacks had to be built up over time.

I swear this guy is being paid to FUD cryptocurrency. No sane person would sit on this board and create 30 posts about why the government and banks are necessary.

Good try anon, they aren't!

>>19818037
>1. I've never used ebay, but yo uwould put in a claim with ebay, and they would know who the seller is based on whatever information the seller has to put in. You would have this same problem with cash.

No, with fiat cash it would be impossible unless I sent fiat in an envelope.
With a digital fiat I don't have that problem because paypal has 60 day something customer warranty where you can get a refund if you get scammed and they have a whole team allocated to that.

So here you basically admit that Monero is UNUSABLE for normal online purchases, right? Because nobody can force the person to send Monero back in case of scam transaction AND

> 2. You would get in writing your contract and then make a claim in small claims court. Again, this is something that happens with regular money.


But you couldn't take it to "small claims court", because you agreed to use a decentralised anonymous coin and now you want a centralised government entity to police it?
It could be even worse, it could be outright ILLEGAL to use. In which case your court paper would not only get thrown out but you would be in deep shit.

>>19818037
>Bitcoin is worth how much now compared to in 2012?
1. Cherry picking dates
2. Admitting it's just speculation
3. Completely ignoring that people need stability of money to continue running business operations. You won't just tell a Mexican drug lord to "wait 5 more years for that 50% loss to recover", he needs that money now.
You won't just tell your normal grandma that her savings should recover after recent crash eventually.

It works in your fantasy crypto land, not in regular world.

>>19817985
>There will be e-EUR, e-USD, e-YUAN and what not.
And gold and monero. Youh are a fool if you think monero has no usecase.

>>19818194
He is asking a lot of questions that are relatively common. He's clearly projecting though because he's posted like 26 times just to fud a thread of something he doesn't like. But I welcome his criticism. It is good to talk about these things and I don't think he is a bad person (though, he is kind of a dick calling us neckbeards and larpers.)

>>19818178
And how the fuck can you expect normie world to operate with a mainstream cryptocurrency when legal buy-sell contracts, job contracts and pretty much anything more than "your word" can't be enforced due to its wonderful 100% anonymity?

Come on, we BOTH know this is a fantasy. Let's just admit elephant in room. Crypto is for CRIME & SPECULATION.

Monero is the BEST crypto for crime due to anonimity.

It's simple as that.

No need to have crypto cure cancer and be second coming of Jesus, don't get married to one idea. Don't be naive.

> zengo allows for recovery of crypto assets, monero supports multi-sig. So you could have a 2/3 multi-sig to achieve the same thing. WITHOUT A BANK OR GOVERNMENT.

Oh yeah, that will be super comfortable using a multi-sig upon every small ice cream purchase. Surely that will convince the NPC masses that it's better than VISA.

> Before the internet went mainstream, there were very few products out there that made the internet easy to use. This is because dev stacks had to be built up over time.

Nice prediction! Yeah and before the Govcoin will go mainstream in 2030 there will have been many other crime coins like Bticoin, Ethereum, XMR and others which eventually got forgotten or remained obscure niche interest.

This paragraph you wrote does not refute any of my arguments.

> I swear this guy is being paid to FUD cryptocurrency.

Non-argument. You know it, I know it, everyone sees it. Discarded as such.

If I don't fall for your cryptoanarchy baby dream it doesn't mean I'm not interested in crypto. I just want to see truth and be a REALIST about it.

I see crypto for what it is: useful for niche purposes.
Just like TOR.
Just like torrents.

That is the role it fulfills. Trying to make it a panacea shows deluded ideological and naive thinking where one gets married to certain idea because they became a bagholder in 2018 and waits til it will "recover". Almost religious

>>19818213
Again, I've never used ebay, but for example Local Monero (where you can buy Monero from other people) has an escrow lock for this purpose, and other marketplaces I've purchased from have this same feature. Dude if people buy from vendors on the dark net, do you really think a common marketplace is impossible?
>But you couldn't take it to "small claims court", because you agreed to use a decentralised anonymous coin and now you want a centralised government entity to police it?
This makes no sense. Nowhere did I imply that I don't want any government or court system. If there is a contract where I have proof that I would be paid buy something, I would show that and prove my hours worked.
Gold is fungible but that is enforced.
>Cherry picking dates
Bitcoin had around 12k transactions per day in 2012, and I'd compare their growth up until that point to Moneros
>Admitting it's just speculation
When did I say it wasn't?
>Completely ignoring that people need stability of money to continue running business operations
When did I argue against volatility? These things will adjust over time. You are looking like one year in the future. Look 20 years.

>>19815679
>>19815901
>>19816366
>>19816391
>>19816413
>>19816521
>>19816560
>>19816576
>>19816604
>>19816652
>>19816734
>>19816748
>>19816944

>>19818216
> And gold and monero. Youh are a fool if you think monero has no usecase.

Read my posts. I keep telling you that MONERO HAS USE CASE FOR:

1) ILLEGAL TRANSACTIONS
2) SEMI-ILLEGAL (GREYHAT) TRANSACTIONS
3) IMMORAL TRANSACTIONS
4) POTENTIALLY ILLEGAL TRANSACTIONS

There is your use case. Be happy.

No Monero is not an everyday currency and never will be.
No it is not a store of value and never will be (due to volatility).
For volatility to go away it has to grow in market cap like 1000x.
It won't.
Because it's niche specific properties prevent it from ever growing outside that niche.
Catch22

>>19818340
cool argument

that one image sure debunked my factual arguments

funny thing is I ACTUALLY LIKE MONERO

I think it's a really good coin. It has pretty fair start, is legit old-school crypto (not ico token shit) and has a really good use case. 100% anonymity, perfect for crime coin. I cringe when people try to make it as something more.

And no, adding gay weeaboo anime girls to its logo won't help its message. Normies cringe when they see that shit

>>19817290
>>19817462
>>19817512
>>19817568
>>19817710
>>19817749
>>19817826
>>19817868
>>19817912
>>19817985
>>19818006
>>19818213
>>19818316

Everything you're saying is correct, but the way you're saying it makes me feel like I need to add some XMR to my portfolio.

>>19818316
>And how the fuck can you expect normie world to operate with a mainstream cryptocurrency when legal buy-sell contracts, job contracts and pretty much anything more than "your word" can't be enforced due to its wonderful 100% anonymity?
Payment IDs solve that problem. Monero is used by many businesses. Just read the first couple chapters of Mastering Monero to actually learn the basics of Monero.

https://masteringmonero.com/book/Mastering%20Monero%20First%20Edition%20by%20SerHack%20and%20Monero%20Community.pdf

>>19818316
Los of projection here. All I'll say is that yes, there is speculation here, but to say Monero's only use is for "crime and speculation" is completely ignoring all the use cases that we have already spelled out for you.
You have a currency with a known supply that is impossible to screw with through central banking. Like gold, it is a hedge. But unlike gold, it is virtual, and it is immediately available through dozens of onramps.
And unlike bitcoin, it does not broadcast how many coins you have to the world.
>>19818350
So do you think people who live under authoritarian governments are all committing illegal crimes if they don't want to follow a dictatorship?
Do you think somebody should be discriminated against if he wants to purchase something?
Do you think it should be somebodies right to donated to a political movement and not be censored?

>>19818367
keep going

>>19818340
This. How can you be such a troll? This isn't even funny, and it takes a lot of effort to write that much.

>>19818350
I'm gonna put an end to you now..
Look up what a Swiss numbered account is.

XMR is pretty much the crypto equivalent. If not better.

Do you know how much the Swiss banking industry is worth? Have you ever even been to Switzerland?

>>19818350
I can send value around the globe in minutes without a third party. And you and your pathetic government cannot stop me. Hahaha.

>>19818322
> Again, I've never used ebay, but for example Local Monero (where you can buy Monero from other people) has an escrow lock for this purpose, and other marketplaces I've purchased from have this same feature. Dude if people buy from vendors on the dark net, do you really think a common marketplace is impossible?

Oh that convoluted escrow where both sides put up some money to ensure they don't scam each other?
Yeah that will surely be very convenient for every day NPC to use for every purchase.

Oh by the way, localbitcoins disabled real life purchases, it is only digital now. You know why? Because that shit faciliated unlicsensed money transfer business which is federal crime or some heavy shit, so they legally had to. It's not like localbitcoins did it out of spite. No, there were too many legal issues. They are centralised entity with real employees and office. I have talked to those people, in real life. You know why localMonero hasn't done the same? Because it is too small. It's a small fish. Nobody knows what Monero is. IF it grows then it will also eventually prohibit that feature.
Sure you will still be able to do transfers with people you trust, but it will be extremely complicated to do it in a 100% anonymous way for every normie who needs to buy new shoes.

Again, for dark net - it is fine. The same localmonero.com can go dark net and it can work, but that will never be mainstream use. If anything it would only fuel "crime coin" stigma even further.

> This makes no sense. Nowhere did I imply that I don't want any government or court system. If there is a contract where I have proof that I would be paid buy something, I would show that and prove my hours worked.

So you want to have best of both worlds? That is NOT realistic. Government will NOT gladly support a coin that will be responsible of a huge CHUNK of tax missing. It just doesn't make any sense. You want the courts to be able to go through technical details to determine your transaction really took place (hey where is your precious anonimity now), when you could have used a regular BANK account? If you want courts and all that I assume you want to also pay taxes from your income for job services rendered? So if you want to pay taxes and you want to pay courts... why the fuck would you ever need your employer to use monero? And if you don't need your employer to use monero... why would Monero ever become popular among normies? It won't unless you and employer have significant advantage of using Monero or any other crypto. And that advantage can only be - someone doesn't want to pay tax. In which case you can't use courts by default, because if they determine a crime has taken place they will report it.

> Bitcoin had around 12k transactions per day in 2012, and I'd compare their growth up until that point to Moneros

Ok and? Fact is - it is still volatile as fuck. If you want to hold it, because "it will grow long term" then say so and "hodl it" or speculate with it, don't try to push that volatile shit as "every day normie coin", it won't work. Nobody wants to sell furniture for 10k$, then have that 10k$ turn to 7k$ and they can no longer order enough components from China, because the have to wait 5 years for it to "rebound" IF ever.


>>19818432
You are agreeing with me.You have a censorship resistant way of sending money that can operate outside authority control. You know what that is called? Illegal money transfer. So you just proved what I have been saying the whole time. YES MONERO IS AWESOME! For anything shady!It's great! BUY IT! HOLD IT! Because once cash gets restricted people will need a shady crime coin to use. Just don't pretend its something else.

>>19818420
Numbered accounts aren't anonymous, as you need to provide your name to the bank in order to create such an account, and the name is still subject be disclosure. Monero actually is anonymous.

>>19818420
It's not 2000 anymore. Swiss accounts are easily accessible to USA, centralised, non-censorship resistant. Stop living in history.

And comparing your Monero account to a Swiss bank isn't doing you any favours. I know what Monero is, I have used it in 2014. I know that it is private, OK! It's better than swiss account except for one thing - IT DOESN'T HAVE STABILITY. NONE OF CRYPTOS DO.

That is why it will never be used by normies. Nobody needs that VOLATILE SHIT

If someone needs to do a quick weed purchase they will go to xmr.to get their monero (or buy on exchange), send it quickly and get their stuff.

This won't cause monero to grow even 2x.

It's price is purely speculation.

>>19818419
But I am not trying to be funny.

Am I a troll for rising specific criticisms? really?

Whatever you don't like is a "troll"?

So far nobody has CONVINCED me, NOT A SINGLE PERSON that Monero has use case for every day transactions and can be used by regular people.

Anyone can reread thread and see that the arguments I outlaid were never debunked.

Best you got to was "cash also bad"

>>19818516
>Oh that convoluted escrow where both sides put up some money to ensure they don't scam each other?
nope. https://localmonero.co/faq?language=en
> IF it grows then it will also eventually prohibit that feature.
Sure you will still be able to do transfers with people you trust, but it will be extremely complicated to do it in a 100% anonymous way for every normie who needs to buy new shoes.
I don't care if people know I have Monero. I care about how much Monero they think I have, or what I do with my Monero. Why is this so hard for you to understand? KYC isn't a factor here.
> Government will NOT gladly support a coin that will be responsible of a huge CHUNK of tax missing.
For somebody that hates speculating, you are doing an awfully large amount of speculating here
> And if you don't need your employer to use monero... why would Monero ever become popular among normie
For the same reason gold is popular, or swiss bank accounts, or Bitcoin currently.
>don't try to push that volatile shit as "every day normie coin", it won't work.
At this point, there is obviously a tech barrier, but who knows what the world will be like 10-20 years from now.

>>19818561
>IT DOESN'T HAVE STABILITY
What and you think USD/GBP/EURO has stability? It's printed out of thin air onto worthless paper and it's backed by nothing.. Normies are starting to realise this. Not only that we could possibly be on the verge of Global hyperinflation. Imagine having 100k saved in the bank to wake up one morning and realise the Bank where you have your 100k parked has gone bankrupt

>>19818532
You are naive. Governments come and go. But this technology is here to stay.

>>19818407
> You have a currency with a known supply that is impossible to screw with through central banking. Like gold, it is a hedge. But unlike gold, it is virtual, and it is immediately available through dozens of onramps.

That can be said for many cryptos

Bitcoin is a better hedge.
It is older.
It has better devs.
It has more devs.
It has been attacked more (thus more secure, because it has endured more).
It will always have age advantage and first mover advantage.
It is first thing people associate it when they hear "crypto".
If they want to "store value as hedge" they will choose Bitcoin over Monero.

But that wasn't what I was discussing. I was telling you why it won't be used as everyday currency.

Store of value as alternative to Bitcoin? Yeah, that is a legitimate use case... for cyberphunk niche individuals. I get that. Buying bread at store? No. Getting paid for legal work as salary? No.

>And unlike bitcoin, it does not broadcast how many coins you have to the world.

Unlike bitcoin most people don't know monero and they are fine with one first mover.
You can anonimize bitcoin with wasabi wallet or simply running it once through BTC->XRM->BTC or many other methods. And nobody will be able to tell how much you have in which wallet.

>>19818577
>So far nobody has CONVINCED me
Why should anyone convince you? Don't like it? Move on.

but yes, for crime it would be dumb to use bitcoin since there are cases of criminals actually being caught trusting bitcoin "anonimity" when there are actual software projects 100% focused on tracing bitcoin blockchain.

> So do you think people who live under authoritarian governments are all committing illegal crimes if they don't want to follow a dictatorship?

Of course, in that particular legislature they are doing illegal crimes. If it is illegal to be gay in Iran, then you are committing a crime by being gay in iran. And by paying for gay escort services you better use Monero since it is #1 crime coin.

>somebody should be discriminated against if he wants to purchase something?

I don't have opinion on that. I don't discuss that. I said that if someone wants to purchase something that is illegal in their jurisdiction they should use a crime coin like Monero.

>Do you think it should be somebodies right to donated to a political movement and not be censored?

What is a person's legal "right" depends on the jurisdiction and legislature.
So it can depend on the country.

>>19818608

>>19818608
Compare history of USA government
Then compare age of Monero project

Still very convinced in your statement?
Even if governments "come and go", it isn't an argument to use "yeah but next government will be 100% pro monero and use monero for everything", no, if an uprise happens and a gov changes the next one will likely be EVEN MORE AUTHORITHORIAN

>>19818652
Bitcoin is a better hedge from the general viewpoint. I agree. I hold Bitcoin myself.
But Monero has privacy upgrades that you can't ignore. Be honest with me anon.
>Unlike bitcoin most people don't know monero and they are fine with one first mover.
Yeah, that's reflective to the current price. You don't think there is going to be a bull run once we get that NYT piece about the new currency that took over the dark net?
Seriously anon, you can't tell me that Monero isn't taking over the Dark net. If you are, then I have some things to tell you...
>You can anonimize bitcoin with wasabi wallet
wrong. Any bitcoin address that uses Wasabi is autoflagged by chain analysis.
>or simply running it once through BTC->XRM->BTC
This is true actually, and is apart of why Monero is being adopted on the dark net. The difference though is that at a certain point, people will just stay in Monero instaed of washing their bitcoins. As it is, Monero is cheaper and it has faster transaction times.

>>19818607
>What and you think USD/GBP/EURO has stability? It's printed out of thin air onto worthless paper and it's backed by nothing..

Cool emotional words bro.

Obviously has more stability than your shit coin, because when I get 100k$, I can more or less know that after a month I will be able to purchase items for 100k$ and not 50k$. Inb4 "weimar republic" and "Zimbabve dollars"

Inflation is actually quite foreseeable and controllable.

Yes, USD, EUR, GBP actually have 999999x more stability then your precious little shitcoin that will get moved 3x in any direction by mere few million getting injected. That just doesn't happen with fiat currencies.

> Normies are starting to realise this.

No they aren't, only incel neckbeards who read Bitcoin Standard start to realise this

> Not only that we could possibly be on the verge of Global hyperinflation.

Doomer fantasy.

> Imagine having 100k saved in the bank to wake up one morning and realise the Bank where you have your 100k parked has gone bankrupt

SIPC and all that related jazz
Imagine waking up one day to realise a critical bug in your crypto is found.
Imagine waking up one day to realise you have been hacked.
Imagine waking up one day to realise market took a hikkup and your 100k$ monero is now worth only 50k$.

>>19818714
> Yeah, that's reflective to the current price. You don't think there is going to be a bull run once we get that NYT piece about the new currency that took over the dark net?

Which NYC piece?

> Seriously anon, you can't tell me that Monero isn't taking over the Dark net. If you are, then I have some things to tell you...

You didn't read my posts. I've been telling you Monero is ideal crime coin. Of course it's taking over dark net, OF COURSE. Read what I said.

I was discussing something else. Idiots believing a normal person would use this for non terror/pedo/drug purchases.

>This is true actually, and is apart of why Monero is being adopted on the dark net. The difference though is that at a certain point, people will just stay in Monero instaed of washing their bitcoins. As it is, Monero is cheaper and it has faster transaction times.

Which is fine, but we actually agree on this. I'm not sure what I'm discussing.

>>19818663
>Of course, in that particular legislature they are doing illegal crimes. If it is illegal to be gay in Iran, then you are committing a crime by being gay in iran. And by paying for gay escort services you better use Monero since it is #1 crime coin.
so you would support a government banning this? Would you support a government that would ban you from saying anything negative about it? Would you support a government that would limit that amount of children you have? Would you support a government that wouldn't let you do x (being something you enjoy?). I mean, you can pretend all you want that this isn't a use case, but it is. Blindly supporting government is dumb, but blindly supporting every government is obtuse.
>on't have opinion on that. I don't discuss that. I said that if someone wants to purchase something that is illegal in their jurisdiction they should use a crime coin like Monero.
You don't have an opinion on it because it is a use case that take a big dump on your fudding.
>What is a person's legal "right" depends on the jurisdiction and legislature.So it can depend on the country.
what is freedom of speech. So do you think the right to relive in something should be infringed?

>>19818755
the new york times piece from the future anon. trust me, the bags your holding will feel lighter once it comes out that a new coin is dominating the dark net.
> didn't read my posts. I've been telling you Monero is ideal crime coin. Of course it's taking over dark net, OF COURSE. Read what I said.
But what you aren't understanding is that bitcoin went through this same phase. Once the dark net was secured it slowly seeped itself into wider finance

>>19818683
>Compare history of USA government
Are you talking about that shady period of 40 years when private gold was illegal in the states? Now people have a hedge.
>>19818683
>next one will likely be EVEN MORE AUTHORITHORIAN
So you do see what is coming and still ignore to be prepared?

>>19816560
>their fair share
10/10 bait anon

ITT: Masterbaiter endlessly quibbles with anons about the definition of 'crime', completely derailing the XMR General with a discussion that goes nowhere because all parties involved actually agree on the only point that matters: that XMR is highly effective at its use case of being so fungible and gov-resistant that it will be banned eventually, and therefore XMR's success now and forever will be as a crimecoin, by definition.

>>19813214
good concept but someone should do it with 3d cloth folds making out the M.

>>19819218
He didn’t derail it. We had some good discussion :)

>>19819789
>>19819218
the discussion is good and encouraged. think of it like skepticism sunday.on reddit. fuck reddit though.

>>19818755
This anon (I'm not gonna link on all the posts because there's an impressive number of them) has made several excellent arguments.

I think the main points of disagreement between him and the community who would describe themselves as cypherpunks (quickly summarized as people who believe that promoting encryption and digital privacy is a moral and political necessity) are:

He doesn't see increased surveillance and data mining as a particularly big problem, and thinks that most people from this point forward will accept it as the new normal. This is fair and he may be 100% correct. Most of us in the Monero community anticipate a future where there are as yet unrealized consequences to this mass accrual of personal data, which creates increased demand for private currency (which is, admittedly, less convenient than traditional payment methods through banks).

Furthermore, this anon believes (and correct me if I'm wrong, bro) that hyperinflation in the first world is highly unlikely. We tend to believe this isn't the case, and that in the event of an economic catastrophe it's highly likely that the government would take similar measures with crypto as they did with gold in the great depression- and monero is a way to avoid asset seizure by a plummeting government grasping at everything it can on the way down.

He is resoundingly correct that, in the world as it exists today, normies have no strong incentive to adopt monero- it is a coin specialized for crime. We tend to believe that the world is changing rapidly, and moving toward a future where XMR's value as a technology will be realized.

Please anon, come back and join us tomorrow, and the day after, and the day after.

>>19820761
>He is resoundingly correct that, in the world as it exists today, normies have no strong incentive to adopt monero- it is a coin specialized for crime.

It's not specialized for crime, it's specialized for privacy. A medium level of privacy is something normies desperately need, even if they don't realize it.

True that SafeX is better than Monero?

>>19820761
Yeah I think you are spot on with the summary that he thinks people don’t care. As of this point he is right that normies don’t care.
But I would argue that over time people will care, especially those that live within authoritarian governments. Or governments that want digital currency.
I also agree that I want him to come back. His arguments, while I disagree with them, are fun to talk about with. What he was wrong about tho was escrow, potential use cases, and most notably, branding anyone that wants to use monero as a pedo/drug addict.

>>19820855
Fair critique and poor wording on my part.

>>19821044
Fact

Been holding monero for 3 years now. Down overall, but I'm not fucking selling.

>>19810932
LOKI is pretty based desu

bump