/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>19437385
>paypal will fail
succeeded
>tesla will fail
succeeded
>spacex will fail
succeeded
kek, i'll take my chances anon. just because we brainlets don't see the purpose or don't understand it, doesn't mean high iq people don't.

Who says profit is his motivation to establish a mars colony? Fucking brainlet

>>19437385
He is developing mars in order to produce cat girls. How is this not understood?

Willing to bet you would never have invested in the pilgrims on the Mayflower or in Columbus' expedition but hey look where we are now

>>19437385
Elon will possibly die of old age before his vision is truly realized, but you're thinking too short term anon. Space colonization is an inevitability on the longer scale. Getting in now is pretty ground floor, and of course there will be ups and downs along the way, but think about how crossing an ocean must've seemed a few centuries ago.

>>19437385
I agree with you anon, except the expensive part. There will probably be a massive die-off and a scandal as a result of people moving to Mars, but who cares, I just hope I can go there before they don't allow me to go anymore because the government made the choice for me that it's a foolish idea.

In theory, it should work okay, but I know humans and they'll work hard and together to begin with, but depending on how quickly some foreign power tries to latch on to Mars, the faster the teamwork with descend into chaos. Its only a matter of time, I think. Would still invest, although just a little to begin with.

>>19437385
>Where is the profit motive?
>How the fuck profit from Mars?

Mars is never going to be terraformed. It’s never going to be a green paradise. Mars, is going to be a forge world. Think about all the toxic industrial processes we have on earth and how much more expensive they are because we have to slap a bunch of EPA applied mitigation’s to it. I’m looking at you battery/semiconductor manufacturers. Now imagine no EPA, no federal shits telling you where you can and can’t build a factory. Imagine open pits of waste, gassed exhausted straight to atmosphere, NUCLEAR POWERED EVERYTHING, smashing precious metal asteroids straight into the planet and scooping up the good bits. Green Mars? No, Mars will stay red. Bright fucking red.

>>19437385
musk’s business empire is designed with the intention of going to mars, the revenue of his companies goes toward achieving that goal, an actual goal, instead of just mindlessly accumulating wealth like a reptile.

if you absolutely have to have a profit motive, the asteroid belt is near mars and contains an inconceivable wealth of minerals and metals, any mining operations will need the support of civilization on mars. furthermore, mastering space travel and colonization over the next centuries will be required if we ever want to land humans onto surface-habitable exoplanets

if youre on Mars, poor people rioting cant get to you.

>>19437385
Precious metals mining (big deal)
Space exploration
Contracts with NASA, ESA, etc
R&D in space

Use your brain

>>19437604
i've got goosebumps reading this. have a (you). also: i'm on the first ship bound for mars.

>>19437637
I thought big businesses with an actual public lofty goal were the stuff of children's books or anime or something. It's kind of based to see it in real life no matter what you think of the company itself or Elon

>>19437385
They're not investing in Mars, they're investing in a space economy propelled by Starship.

Having a ship capable of delivering such huge quantities of payload (and people), into orbit will develop a realistic space economy.

Imagine 50,000 people paying $50,000 each for a trip to the Moon or a fortnight in space, that's 2.5 billion dollars

>>19437385
People will pay whatever they can to get away from earth communists.

>>19437385
>How is SpaceX planning on making a profit?
Satellite internet and government aerospace contracts

>>19437385
His plan is to make money from Starlink and Tesla and spend it on Mars program. Pretty based actually

>>19437385
He's got AAVE flash loan centers up there already I heard.

>>19437417
This

Mars is an idealistic dream for Elon, there is no profit motive. If you don't get that, you might be a Jew.

>>19437417
Tesla succeeded in convincing the world to drive a thousand pound toxic battery that in the end still runs on polluting coal

Great succes

real estate, niggur
tourism, niggur
aint you ever see that arnoald schqazenagger movie where he takes his helment off on marzzzz

>>19437385
he will probably succeed at whatever he's doing since this Space X travel is all staged

>>19437604
The Omnissiah approves
>NUCLEAR POWERED EVERYTHING
By the time we get to this point not only nuclear but fussion powered everything will not only be plausible but any other alternative would be as inconceivable as moving from one city to another by chariot is nowadays

>>19437385
Bitch he's going to own the planet. talk about generational wealth

>>19438321
doesn't matter if you like the product or not. the company is doing great. but i agree. would still drive a tesla if i could kek

>>19438132
wouldn't be surprising since Musk and AAVE are both on the bleeding edge of tech

Objects at the bottom of a gravity well are less valuable since they contain negative potential energy. The future is not life on planets.

>>19437385
the way to profit from getting to mars first is basically you can become it's exclusive charter. imagine every fucking government having to do business with you if they want to establish a presence there. and if you control the fuel situation and launch infrastructure on the planet also then your would be competition are already priced out. because by the time they catch up with you you can already underbid them easily.
later on holding the lifeline of a new colony will be immensely profitable.

>>19437604
mars is the closest planet we could actually terraform. it would be a huge waste to use it as a garbage dump when we have the moon for that.

>Live on a sinking ship full of niggers commies Jews and cucks
>le meme space man has the only ticket to freedom

Yeah how will he ever make money lol

Government contract, obviously, you stupid fucking idiot retard. Space travel is not a consumer good.

>>19438915
some pollution would be helpful to generate an atmosphere, but I agree we shouldn’t just completely trash Mars, material waste should be managed in some capacity not just strewn everywhere

The demons on mars are waiting for elon to send them the human sacrifices, this is how elon will become one of the demon lords. they promised him this, anon

>>19438915
Mars is out of sight, out of mind and it’s proximity to the asteroid belt makes it much more ideal than the moon. The NIMBYs would rage at the idea of a bunch of lights/factories on the surface of the moon.

The reason there is no spacex stock is because it will probably not be profitable to anyone. Elon said it so himself, it's a bad idea for investors. He is not looking to make money on mars. He is looking to make money with tesla to get humans to mars and end up in the history books. That's literally all there is to it.

Mars will not be profitable for at least the next 200 years

>>19437385
Why is everyone here talking like investing in SpaceX is an option? You can't buy in unless you're already rich aka an angel investor.

>>19437385
earth is flat

what if he's going to mars because he wants to advance human society instead of make money???

>>19439011
garbage could be launched straight into the sun just as easily as put planetside.

>>19439212
no i mean the moon is mostly useless toxic waste with no potential to ever have an atmosphere.
we could make an artificial magnetic shield for mars easily with current technology and start building an atmosphere.

Elon wants to send back the white race to their origin's planet

>>19437385
His clients are governments and politics out there always ready to grab an opportunity to spend tax/debt dollars and gain a bit of glory.

There wasn't commercial returns for most of french and british colonies during the first century (spanish were the exception with gold).

Lunar tourism can become a pretty good money making scheme too, billionaires spend hundreds of millions to build yachts.
Now image what they would be ready to put on the table for a lunar villa, imagine a future where instagram whores take 3D picturess of their brappers from orbit. That's it.

>>19439543
>we could make an artificial magnetic shield for mars easily with current technology and start building an atmosphere.

Terraforming Mars is a pipe dream. It’s not happening, especially when there is more short term financial/environmental gain by outsourcing as much industry as possible to Mars. The main point of doing it there is so you can “Terraform” earth into an engineered permaculture Garden Of Eden.

>>19439602
it's the only planet we have a realistic chance with. there is no other. so if we ever gonna terraform a planet it will be mars.

nukes could be used to melt the ice caps. and make the basis for an atmosphere (mostly dry ice aka co2) some special plants could be used to produce oxygen. probably requires bodies of water first.

it's not impossible it would just take thousands of years. but... even if we do not terraform mars completely within out lifetime just doing the first few steps of shielding if tom solar wind and radiation and also giving it a more dense atmosphere would help the settlers there greatly.

>>19440681
oh and the planet surface could be bombarded from the saturn ice rings diverted by the precise use of gravity tractors. or something like that.
it would take a hell of a lot of time, but it's doable with today's technological level doesn't require anything sci-fi. just a lot of money time and effort.

>>19437385
He won’t
His kids will be the next Rothschilds though if he pulls this off and start a new dynasty

Moral of the story
He knows what he’s doing

People are buying Tsla as a proxy of SpaceX

>>19437417

>>19437467
>but you're thinking too short term anon. Space colonization is an inevitability on the longer scale.
Sure. Show me a working gravity drive and planets hospitable to human life and you got something.
A colony on Mars is a scam. We arent ready yet for space colonization. We should focus on a robust space station before Mars or any other planet.

>>19438080
Specifically on a Mars expedition. I understand the rest of their business model.

>>19438898
Nobody is going to live on Mars.

>>19438997
Government is paying for it. You dont make a point by spamming profanity.

Whoever(Corporations) makes it to Mars gets to have their own fief. If Cult of Elon gets mars, they could theoretically pave the way for the creation of a future country, making Elon a modern day George Washington

>>19439251
Fair enough. That's the answer I was looking for. Sad how many fuckwits I have to wade through to find another voice.

>>19439587
>There wasn't commercial returns for most of french and british colonies during the first century (spanish were the exception with gold).
Spain was motivated by potential profits from a quicker route to India, and instead hit the jackpot with premined gold and silver.
France and England went chasing the same riches.
There is no such equivalent profit incentive, which is usually how human endeavors happen.
Mere scientific curiosity hasn't been the driving force historically.

I hope R.E.M. is going to write a tributary song to Elon

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=k_JnCWT-_O8

>>19440681
>settlers there
Why us anyone going to move to a death city on Mars?
The New World was giving away free farmable land in the Oklahoma Territory.
Mars is offering way shittier than Anarctica.
Who the fuck is moving to Mars?

>>19439251
>>19442074
That's the incorrect answer retard. He never said it wouldn't be profitable, he said in order for it to be profitable it needs to be able to think and invest long term and if it's publicly traded there will be much more pressure to pump out superficially nice looking numbers every quarter instead of taking their time to do it right. There are still tons of angel investors giving money to SpaceX, do you really think they would be doing that if Elon was straight up saying that SpaceX was never going to be a profitable venture? Think about it.

>>19442173
Make good PR to people who don’t do research and think it’ll change their lives? You really don’t think their are morons who would go

When we find an actual "New World" somewhere else in the galaxy that humans can live on, then all of this colony shit and mining asteroids happens.
Nobody is moving to a death bubble on Mars other than a few dozen scientists, max.
Like Anarctica.

>>19442226
I'm not talking about spacex in general. Specifically the expedition to Mars.
As a spacex investor it sounds like a bad move. I dont see how the company profits. I get low orbit satellites, I dont get going to mars. Expensive and non profitable.

>>19440681
>it's the only planet we have a realistic chance with. there is no other. so if we ever gonna terraform a planet it will be mars.

Venus is far more terraformable, both in the short and long term. Mars has serious problems that would require an exponentially greater level of technology and industry to overcome, to the point that if we had that kind of technology, we wouldn't need to terraform it at all. Even using Mars as an industrial graveyard doesn't really make much sense if there isn't a non-earth destination for that industry. Tacking on months of transit time, dealing with narrow windows of travel, having literally 0 infrastructure in place, that'll add immense cost to even the simplest undertaking, so there's literally no point to it until there's industry beyond mars, making it a functional intermediary point to centralize some kind of production. We'd have to colonize beyond mars just to have any reason to colonize mars beyond tourism. Since mars is a dead, red rock that takes months to get to in the closest window of travel, there isn't going to be any tourism for a very very long time for the same reason there aren't moon tourists right now.

Smaller gravity wells = Nuclear weapons high ground.

First will be the race to establish permanent moon bases, then Mars as a pit stop on the way to the asteroid belt.

Once the tech for permanent weapons maintenance in these environments has the vanguard, you'll see the corporate space race for control of the resources. That's when you get your space colonies for plebs

>>19442282
Once the economy starts ramping up on Mars the economic benefits of being the first and most experienced at going back and forth are obvious.
>Nobody is going to live on Mars.
Lol how can you have such a small view of humanity's future? Very sad honestly. You actually believe that humanity is just going to stay on one planet for all time?

>>19437385
>spacex will never make money
as if you wouldn't subscribe to pay-per-view to watch assholes fight & die on mars....

>>19442425
>Lol how can you have such a small view of humanity's future? Very sad honestly. You actually believe that humanity is just going to stay on one planet for all time?
>What is a false-dichotomy?
>What is a strawman so fuckwit can pretend to lol?
People will leave Earth. Mars is not our only option. People will flood to an earth-like planet if we ever figure out warp speed.
Mars is a dead rock, and living there will be worse and harsher than living in Antarctica, and nobody wants to live there either.
Specifically Mars. Mars sucks. Nobody is ever going to live there other than a few dozen scientists. At least for the next hundred years at least, which is well beyond any realistic time-frame for a long-term investment.
Mars is a dead-end.
Show me a warpdrive and hosptitable planets, and yes. Human expansions and all that. Mars ain't it.

>>19442524
>Whoever wins gets the last oxygen tank!

>>19442568
You make some valid points and honestly taking your points into account I could see Mars never getting a huge population in the next 100 years either and humanity mostly skipping it for other options but in the future I see the entire solar system will be utilized in one way or another, so I guess to answer your question, why mars? Because it's the next step. Moon has been done, Venus is suicide, asteroids are too far out and too low grav to be useful right now until we get good at building ships that can spin for grav for long term human habitation outside of gravity wells. Jupiter's moons are too far away for now especially considering how much closer Mars is.
So why Mars? Why not? It's the next logical step. I don't think Elon ever said anything to the effect that it's going to be the economic hub of the solar system. His "quest" so to speak is to advance humanity's ability to expand into space and become a multi planet civilization in order to make it much less probable that humanity ever becomes extinct. Spreading out to Mars is the next logical step in that. Well so is the moon, but he's got plans for getting a Moon base going too, so it's not like he's just fixated on Mars as some end-all be-all solution to anything we're discussing.

Why is mars so uninhabitable?

>>19437418
this and then literally this
>>19437424

>>19437604
Based.

>>19437385
Nigger it's not about profit, it's about his dream.

He's keeping SpaceX private because he don't want any dirty shareholders fucking with his dream.

>>19442568
>fuckwit is baffled profit is the means not the motive

>>19442717
You should do some research on the hurdles of any kind of actual terraforming process. In order to even begin considering terraforming mars, we would first need the ability to construct entirely self sufficient long term space habitation and industrial infrastructure. If we have the technology and ability to build self sufficient factories and ecosystems in space then what is even the point of terraforming a planet? If there's anything you actually need on that planet just use robots to go get it. Terraforming won't make it any cheaper or easier to do, and people won't want to live outside their comfortable climate controlled environments any way.

>>19442932
Who said anything about terraforming?

>>19443239
Terraforming/colonization, any means of putting people or industry on mars long term. There just isn't any point to it. Mars is a scientific novelty, and there's value in sending people there to study it, but that's not what this thread is about. It's about economically exploiting mars, and long term investment opportunities into some kind of eventual martian development. In either case, there isn't scientific grounds to support any kind of mars boom in the near or long term. It's no more a stepping stone to distant colonization is than your mailbox is a stepping stone to flying to another country. You'll probably have to pass by it to get there, but you're not going to be building a rest stop there to help with the trip.

>>19443588
blah blah blah, you're a tool fuck off.

>>19437385
Space mining is where the money is. Mars is just there for PR

>>19443592
What, you just want someone to tell you there's gold on mars waiting to be discovered? Mars is just a benchmark for how fast our rockets can go, and it's not even the halfway mark before we can get anywhere worth going.

>>19442354
>Venus is far more terraformable
hell no

>>19443748
It is. It's closer, has near earth gravity, and there is a point in its atmosphere that is earth pressure. Unlike mars it has a magnetosphere, and strong sunlight. You might not be able to walk around on the surface, but that's a pretty minor issue. If your goal is to make it completely earth-like, there's a lot of work you'd have to do, but still less than mars. Stripping away its excess atmosphere is no small feat, but that's peanuts compared to reigniting mars' core and somehow increasing its mass 300%

>>19442354
man venus is hot like a fucking oven it melts metals like lead and it has an acidic atmosphere with 90 times the pressure of earths. stop talking nonsense!

mars is completely doable with our current technological level. we could construct a magnetic shield for it on the L1 point. we could rebuild some if it's atmosphere from the frozen co2, we could bombard it with ice and methane with pretty low effort to facilitate further basis for a self sustaining biome.

the only thing venus has going for it it it's gravity. but to make it habitable is pretty out of question. it would require a dyson civilization to do it.

>>19443851
no just fucking no. also if you go underground the atmosphere is a non issue but that's not fucking terraforming and completely pointless. rotating space stations are a billion times cheaper for artificial habitat. but they are also a lot more vulnerable and constraining. which is why terraforming still may interest us as a civilization.

>>19443851
>reigniting mars' core and somehow increasing its mass 300%
also nobody is tying to do that. wtf are you smoking?

>>19437604
What about the void dragon sleeping there though?

>>19443906
Only if you're adamant on living on the ground. If living in an atmospherically neutral floating city that doesn't even need to be pressure sealed is somehow too absurd for you, then you aren't fit for extraterrestrial travel.
>>19443906
Without a magnetosphere and gravity, mars won't maintain an atmosphere and be constantly bombarded with severe radiation. We also don't know the long term health effects of living in low gravity. It could literally be impossible for humans to survive indefinitely in .3g, so even sealed habitats on mars' surface might not be enough.

well actually i was wrong about whan i said the only planet we could terraform is mars. we can definitely terraform earth also in fact already doing it.

glaial periods got more frequent and severe the last 2 bilion years earth is heading to a whiteout on the longer timeframes. by pumping co2 back inot the atmosphere we can adjust the carbon cycle to make earth habitable to us long term.

kinda fucking awesome... think about it, if not for the humans the current biodiversity would eventually be gone. and earth would be a cold deserted ice ball with maybe deep sea microbes left as testimony to life..

>>19444034
for anyone with at least half a brain terraforming means making the surface habitable to earth biome and human life.

>>19444034
>Without a magnetosphere and gravity, mars won't maintain an atmosphere and be constantly bombarded with severe radiation.
if only you read the posts you are replying to... >>19443860
>we could construct a magnetic shield for it on the L1 point. we could rebuild some if it's atmosphere from the frozen co2
it's completely feasible with today's technology level nigger. nothing sci-fi about it. just a big fucking magnet and some nukes.

>>19444034
>It could literally be impossible for humans to survive indefinitely in .3g
also bullshit, where the fuck did you pull that out of? your ass? humans can provably adapt to micro gravity for sustained time. the 0.3 is more than adequate to retain bone density with weight training.

>>19444056
Then you're talking about restarting mars' core and increasing its mass to near earth's, as opposed to just stripping away excess atmosphere from venus. Otherwise the surface will never be habitable to earth's biome.

>>19444104
Oh yeah? Show me all those humans who've lived in microgravity for generations. The longest anyone's been on a space station at a time isn't even 2 years and it's incredibly deleterious to bone density and causes all kinds of health problems. There simply isn't any evidence that earth life can adapt to live in different gravity.

>>19437385
SpaceX is making money selling rocket rides to NASA and the military. The Mars mission is a long term investment and PR move. Try to keep up, and do real research on where SpaceX is doing business. SpaceX and Blue Origin are the results of the commercialization of space to get costs of moving material and people up the gravity well, since the shuttle program was scrapped. Stop thinking the big splashy test launches are all they do, SpaceX has been launching satellites regularly for quite a while. That's their bread and butter, not the Mars mission.

>>19444149
yeah well space stations have as close to 0 g as possible. 0.3 is so many magnitudes higher than that it's not even funny. no gravity will not be an issue life can't adapt to easily. the atmospheric density and composition is a much much more important thing.

>>19444034
>We also don't know the long term health effects of living in low gravity.
Most likely fucks you up. Rotatiting space stations that simulate 1g are realistic.
We should be adding to the Space Station. That's a realistic goal.

>>19444112
>Then you're talking about restarting mars' core and increasing its mass to near earth's
no most definitely not.
>Otherwise the surface will never be habitable to earth's biome.
bollocks.

>>19444282
based and reasonpilled

>>19443860
>mars is completely doable with our current technological level. we could construct a magnetic shield for it on the L1 point. we could rebuild some if it's atmosphere from the frozen co2, we could bombard it with ice and methane with pretty low effort to facilitate further basis for a self sustaining biome.
What's the ETA on that project? 10,000 years?
We'll have warpspeed figured out by then, and an abundance of hospitable planets to choose from before we see any results from terraforming Mars.

>>19444149
>The longest anyone's been on a space station at a time isn't even 2 years and it's incredibly deleterious to bone density and causes all kinds of health problems.
I believe he has permanently deteriorated cognitive function, i.e. it made him dumber.

>>19444403
rotating stations have their own problems unless well greater in radius than 600 meters they will cause vertigo in short order. but it's definitely doable.

just as continuously accelerating ships will be doable at a certain fuel efficiency reached. anti matter catalytic fusion drives combined with magnetic sail/ramjet are something on our realistic short term technological roadmap. they could make interstellar travel possible with 1g or close to it naturally provided by the drive.

>>19444389
That's an entirely baseless assumption, particularly when it comes to an entire biosphere. We have so close to 0 data regarding long term habitation in low gravity that any hypothesis is meaningless.

>>19444282
>Try to keep up, and do real research on where SpaceX is doing business.
Holy shit fuckwit, read the damn thread.

>>19444463
>rotating stations have their own problems unless well greater in radius than 600 meters they will cause vertigo in short order. but it's definitely doable.
Orders of magnitude easier than terraforming a planet. We could actually have Manhattan in space within a few hundred years.

>>19442282
This economy is full. Mars as it grows becomes a new economy with tremendous growth potential. The first instance since the 17th century of establishing a new world from the beginning.

>>19444429
>What's the ETA on that project? 10,000 years?
the magnetic shield is doable within a few decades time it requires equipment in the order of few 100 tonnes at L1 point of mars.

rebuilding the atmosphere to a level it sustains specialized microbial and plant life is probably a few centuries. depends on drive technology because if we had efficient drives that gets us around in the system we could do a hell of a lot with the materials fond in space. kinetic impactors could be used to increase the mass and temperature and introduce minerals water and gasses...

the final result where you can walk on the surface without a suit is yeah around 10k years.

>>19444465
nothing points to earth life not being able to adopt to lack of gravity in very short order. for example sea creatures wouldn't even know the difference.

>>19444034
>mars won't maintain an atmosphere
Yeah, it'll blow away. Over a million years. Not an issue.
>atmospherically neutral floating city
Oh boy here I am floating in my cloud city above the Venusian hellscape with all this useless carbon dioxide. Living the dream. I'm like Lando fucking Calrissian

>>19444494
well gigantic inflated domes on mars surface kept erect by the earth like atmosphere are much more doable in the short term than giant space station s and much less vulnerable not to mention you can have underground shelters.

i don't think you can terraform a planet as a tight schedule project. you will have generations upon generations living while only improving on the conditions just a little bit as a side project.

but the initial work has to be done before settlers because human presence would make the first phase (bombardment) very problematic.

>>19444548
>Yeah, it'll blow away.
not if you divert solar wind with bow shock effect shielding mars from radiation as a sideffect.

only takes a 1 tesla strong coil

>>19437604
>a wage cage planet
hmm

>>19437385
harvesting precious metals and elements on mars

>>19444615
Sure, my point was that even without a magnetosphere the rate of depletion is so low that you can easily top it up. It's a geological timescale process.

>>19444656
that's true enough. i still think we should do a shield because of the radiation.

>>19444545
Throw those fish on land, see how long it takes them to adapt. All we know with any certainty is that 0g is not habitable and 1g is.
>>19444548
Oh boy, here I am living in my cave with all this useless rock. Colonizing any planet is going to suck big shit. You're going to be living in a tin can while it takes the rest of your life for it to get 1% less fatal to step outside either way.

>>19440811
its his destiny. hes is a techocrat. his parent literally raised him to do what hes doing and he cant stop even if he wanted to.
he can also levitate

>>19444671
>All we know with any certainty is that 0g is not habitable
we don't actually know that. in fact we know we can do it with a little bit of effort at least in space. it's not so practical on a surface but technically doable.

i'm much more interested in how the human body can survive high g acceleration and maneuvers then low g (which is a non-issue)

>>19444709
You can create habitable environments in 0g that simulate 1g, but humans cannot survive in 0g indefinitely. If life cannot survive long term at .3g you could build habitats on mars' surface that simulate 1g with angular rotation, but terraforming the planet by your definition would be impossible without increasing its mass.

>>19444813
>but humans cannot survive in 0g indefinitely
we don't actually know that m8 but it's very likely we can easily adapt to lower gravity.

it's a great question we can only answer if we make space habitats with fractional gravity and make people live there for a generation or two.

in fact it's likely the fist rotary space stations will not offer full gravity anyhow.

>>19437604
brutal

>>19444813
the other great question is how would earth biome change in a few thousand years under low gravity assuming it survives. will every plant and animal grow stupid tall and thin? or will they just be more slender and fragile? would you even recognize a mars cat?