/biz/ - Business & Finance

He’s even wearing a flannel shirt lol

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
What a fucking retard.

>>19169420
i bet it's cheap knockoff like his oracle solution

>>19169400
b-but anon, chainlink doesn't solve the oracle problem. it's a scam to fool people with affinity for technology.

>>19169400
what oracle exploit? there's no info on the bug at all
and yes, chainlink is a scam

>>19169598
SEETHING

Pic related is 5 days ago HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

>>19169647
so far only chainlink lost money due to bugs, not tbtc.
They're using maker oracle which is the most used oracle on ethereum. You pulled an "oracle exploit" from your ass.

>>19169679
"post mortem" tommorow read it and weep pest

>>19169705
you know nothing because you claimed they used a 'custom oracle solution' when they used maker feeds.

>>19169400
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

>>19169705
and the bug was detected internally - by another tBTC/KEEP developer, so there's exactly zero chance you have any idea.

tBTC has to parse bitcoin blocks on-chain, this is a big and complex project

>>19169400
IF this does turn out to be an oracle exploit. We should go to town on this fucker.

Oracle events are Chainlinks biggest advertisements, if you are a LINK holder then you should maximise the fuck out of every one of these.

Tomorrow when the tBTC report comes out, I'm going to Ctrl-F oracle and if it has a single return then I'm buying more LINK instantaneously.

>>19169746
>you claimed they used a 'custom oracle solution' when they used maker feeds.
Protip: they're using both.

>>19169811
This whole project is about bridging two different chains.
Whatever went wrong, it fits within the scope of the "oracle problem".

>>19169828
lol no, the whole point is to have a decentralized system, not trust someone about the state of bitcoin blockchain.
The only place they use oracles is to get the ethbtc rate for collateral of key holders, but once the system grows large enough, it can be removed and use the tbtc/eth rate from uniswap2 directly

>>19169746
Maker feed is "custom oracle solution" you mongo also they dont just pull feed there is twist how they import it in blocks
ALSO THIS
>>19169811
>>19169828
Whole fucking project is basically excersise in oracles...

>>19169862
>lol no, the whole point is to have a decentralized system, not trust someone about the state of bitcoin blockchain.
Please do explain how this changes what I said you absolute dimwit.

>they'll remove the oracle and use uniswap2 instead
You're a moron lmaooooo
https://uniswap.org/blog/uniswap-v2/#price-oracles

What the fuck even is tBTC? just a 1:1 erc-20 token peg to BTC?

>>19169913
>Please do explain how this changes what I said
Relying on chainlink would make the system centralized, as oracles could lie about the state of the bitcoin blockchain and emit empty tbtc.
>You're a moron lmaooooo
>https://uniswap.org/blog/uniswap-v2/#price-oracles
>Uniswap V2 implements new functionality that enables highly decentralized and manipulation-resistant on-chain price feeds
Did you read your own link?

>>19169862
>The only place they use oracles is to get the ethbtc rate for collateral of key holders
thats the whole point lol btc/eth real world pegg on chain
>t can be removed and use the tbtc/eth rate from uniswap2 directly
Also uniswap begs project to not use it as oracle for apparent reason but hey
>>19169930
Yes but this one suposed to be first noncustodial which is pretty big deal if they get they shit togeather and just use link

>>19169957
It's like you are trying to act smart and better than everything.

But then everything you type is retarded.

Are you Matt Luongo or Ric Burton?

>>19169400
Impersonators are bullish

>>19169993
>Also uniswap begs project to not use it as oracle for apparent reason but hey
which is why I wrote "uniswap2".
>just use link
Link is extremely unsafe and centralized.
https://blog.chain.link/improving-and-decentralizing-chainlinks-feature-release-and-network-upgrade-process/
>The human error occurred while seeking to improve the XAG/USD network by releasing additional data reliability features requiring an update to the smart contract’s configuration about the specific job IDs being run by node operators servicing the XAG/USD oracle network, leading them to incorrectly request a gold price (XAU) instead of the silver price (XAG).
Nobody would trust tbtc if it relied on link, except for link holders of course. Someone at chainlink could steal everything with just one update. WBtc would be way safer.

>>19169957
>Relying on chainlink would make the system centralized, as oracles could lie about the state of the bitcoin blockchain and emit empty tbtc.
Oracles "can lie", which is why tbtc relies on oracles.
lmao

>Did you read your own link?
Oracles "can lie", so they're using Uniswap V2 which uses oracles.

lmaooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

>>19170069
>Oracles "can lie", which is why tbtc relies on oracles.
Maker feed is the most decentralized, as there's no single party that can just take over, like in chainlink.
>they're using Uniswap V2 which uses oracles.
Uniswap doesn't "use" oracles. Do you even know what uniswap is?
V2 adds a function to compute moving averages for on-chain trades.

>>19170044
Listen Matt time to let it go NOTHING you tiped makes sense

Wait reprot tommorow, wrap your head around whole thing is one big oracle problem than come back here and apologize so sergery

>>19170116
Kek

>>19169400
literally and unironically who?

>>19170116
I'm not Matt. Btw please keep attacking him on twitter while promoting link. It's the greatest possible negative marketing for any ethereum dev. Bugs happen and nobody wants anything to do with a community that uses it as an excuse for attack.

And no, tbtc is not an oracle problem. It can eventually work without any external oracle. That's the whole point.

>>19169400
Just buy UND anon. Literally the next Stratis-esque 50x is right in front of you at a $1M cap.

>>19170104
>Maker feed is the most decentralized
But you said "oracles can lie".

>Uniswap doesn't "use" oracles.
No, it IS a fucking oracle.

Just buy UND anon. Literally the next Stratis-esque 50x is right in front of you at a $1M cap.

>>19170222
>nobody wants anything to do with a community that uses it as an excuse for attack.
Right, and what excuse did Matt have for attacking Chainlink?

>>19170236
>But you said "oracles can lie".
I also wrote that using the ethbtc feed is a temporary solution until uniswap2 can be used for tbtc/eth feed. Replacing verification of bitcoin blocks with a chainlink oracle wouldn't be temporary, it would make the system dependent on chainlink forever.
>No, it IS a fucking oracle.
It's a contract on ethereum. An oracle is something external. Arguing over the definition of an oracle makes no sense in any case.
>>19170249
I don't know the context of what he wrote, but chainlink is a centralized scam. Devs can change the configuration of any feed, giving them absolute control over the system. That's a fact confirmed on their own site. It didn't even have multisig before the mistake.

>>19170104
>Maker feed is the most decentralized
This is precious, Maker uses "secret" price feeds, the identities of which are known only to like two top people at Maker.
This is a whole dimension worse than KYC: it's private KYC.

Not only that, but Chainlink also outperformed Maker's oracle in the March gas crisis. See pic.

>>19170297
>This is a whole dimension worse than KYC: it's private KYC.
Maker oracles were only chosen once, there's no one entity that can change what they send. Chainlink devs have full power over feed configurations.
>Chainlink also outperformed Maker's oracle in the March gas crisis
Maker feed has an intentional one-hour delay, the point is to have an emergency shutdown option if oracles are somehow hacked.

>>19170222
You don't get it.

Devs NEED Chainlink. Chainlink is blockchain agnostic. If devs from one platform don't want to secure their smart contracts (due to a few deserved tweets) then value will gather in a more secure smart contract platform.

>>19170296
>I also wrote that using the ethbtc feed is a temporary solution until uniswap2 can be used for tbtc/eth feed.
So because oracles "can lie", they're going to move towards using an oracle in the future to remedy this.

L M A O

>It's a contract on ethereum. An oracle is something external.
You have no idea what oracles are.
Uniswap itself says V2 is an oracle, start coping anytime.

>Devs can change the configuration of any feed
Of course, they run the current contracts.
Maker is the exact same except much worse due to their private feeds, yet you love them apparently.

You have zero clue what you're talking about.

>>19170331
>Maker oracles were only chosen once, there's no one entity that can change what they send. Chainlink devs have full power over feed configurations.
Maker has full control over feed configurations too, brainlet.

Chainlink has just as little control over what the nodes actually broadcast as Maker.
Except with Maker you have to take their word that the nodes are actually independent, since only like two people know who they are or have any details about them.

>>19170331
>Maker feed has an intentional one-hour delay
Maker's oracle failure had nothing to do with the one-hour delay. You are clueless.

>>19170344
Uniswap2 is not an oracle because it's fully on-chain. That's like calling literally everything on ethereum an 'oracle'.
>>19170366
>Maker has full control over feed configurations too, brainlet.
Maker is a dao that has to vote on every change, and there's a 12hour admin delay on top of that. Chainlink can change everything on a whim.
>>19170380
There's no proof that any actual delay happened. Few people know about the one hour delay and that was the source of misinformation.

>>19170490
anon:
>Uniswap2 is not an oracle

Uniswap:
>V2 is an oracle

HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM??????

>>19170519
Simple question: is a 'balanceOf' erc20 function an oracle? According to your definition it is.

>>19170490
anon:
>There's no proof that any actual delay happened [with Maker's oracles]

Maker:
>a Maker oracle was unintentionally slow to provide the most current price

HHHHHHHHHMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

>>19170535
>According to your definition
Not my definition, buttercup.

>>19170539
That's not proof, that's a blog post with 'more details follow'. Even people in maker didn't know about the intentional delay.
>>19170560
whose definition then? It's not in the dictionary, there are only crypto sites.
>A blockchain oracle is a third-party information source
https://www.mycryptopedia.com/blockchain-oracles-explained/
>A blockchain oracle bridges the gap between a smart contract and the external data
https://blocksdecoded.com/what-is-blockchain-oracle/

So no, uniswap2 is not an oracle.

>>19170622
>That's not proof
It's Maker themselves literally saying "our oracle had an unintentional delay".

>whose definition then?
Uniswap's

Cope.

>>19170622
Stop embarrassing yourself please sir.

>>19170641
>It's Maker themselves literally saying
that's not proof, proof would consist of a link to the feed contract that shows no confirmed transactions when they should be.
>Uniswap's
Ok, and I use another definition, one that's also much more common.

>>19170116
KEKD HARD

BASED

>>19170675
>that's not proof
Maker saying their oracle failed is not proof of Maker's oracle failing?

>Ok, and I use another definition
No you don't.
You're just ignorant while Uniswap isn't.

>>19170712
>Maker saying their oracle failed is not proof of Maker's oracle failing?
I don't who wrote that blog post. But there was nothing about the delay during the actual happening.
https://forum.makerdao.com/t/black-thursday-response-thread/1433/126
and it wasn't mentioned at all in technical discussions. Without any proof it looks like the person who wrote the blog post didn't know about the intentional delay.
>You're just ignorant while Uniswap isn't.
No, I provided two sources that agree with me, while you only have one article that uses 'oracle' very informally.
Have a third one:
https://www.blockchain-council.org/blockchain/blockchain-oracle-a-deep-dive/
>Blockchain Oracle can be understood as a third-party information source
No, uniswap2 is not an oracle according to the most common definition.

>>19170803
>I don't who wrote that blog post.
Maker did.

>No, I provided two sources that agree with me
None of them say "Uniswap V2 is not an oracle" you moron.
Uniswap themselves explain to you how V2 is an oracle.
Deal with it.

Lmao Matt is seething so fucking hard itt. Let it go Matt. Bend your knee and start sucking. Nobody, absolutely nobody, can go against Sergey.

>>19170828
>Maker did.
"Maker" is not a person capable of writing blog post.
>None of them say "Uniswap V2 is not an oracle" you moron.
literally all of them
>third-party information source
>external data
>third-party information source
uniswap is not third party (there's no party) and it's internal

>>19170854
>"Maker" is not a person capable of writing blog post.
Fucking lmao my dude

>uniswap is not third party
It literally is.
The price of an asset (first party) is provided to a requester (second party) by Uniswap (third party).
Hence why Uniswap describes its own V2 as an "oracle".

It's better to just cope.

Is wearing flannel shirt like some cult?

>>19170932
>The price of an asset (first party) is provided to a requester (second party) by Uniswap (third party).
There's only one entity, the one that executes the transaction. Do you even know how ethereum works? A contract and an asset is not a "party".

>>19170965
>There's only one entity, the one that executes the transaction
Uniswap describes how it has "users".
You're telling me they're lying?

>>19170990
Are you serious? It's a contract on ethereum, not a centralized service.
At least use uniswap before trying to talk about ethereum related things.

>>19170999
>It's a contract on ethereum
So Uniswap does not have "users"?

>At least use uniswap before trying to talk
Says the guy who thinks Uniswap is wrong by saying V2 is an oracle.

>>19170999
Trusting third party aka in uniswap case algoritam someone made is trusting centralsied oracle it doesn't matter its "on chain" and not from outside world its still alien source to fucking smart contract and not native THATS THE FUCKING WHOLE POINT WHY CAHINLINK IS SO IMPORATNT YOU MONGOLOID

FUCK

>>19171061
If fucking users find the way how to exploit uniswap algoritm its still same attack surfice as cmc feed from cz himself, thas why centralsied oracles sucks

How ae you this retarded?

>>19171033
If I use a browser on my pc, does that make the browser a "third party"?
>>19171061
>its still alien source to fucking smart contract and not native
but uniswap2 is a (set of) smart contract(s) on ethereum, which is what it means to be native.
>>19171081
The uniswap2 price feed algorithm is simply a moving average on past prices. The price can't be incorrect by definition, because it means it was true for a time - the period used for the average.

>>19171107
>If I use a browser on my pc, does that make the browser a "third party"?
Depending on context, sure.
And if not the browser itself, then the extensions, cookies, ... that allow you to do certain things while browsing.

Uniswap itself calls V2 an "oracle". It's time for you to cope.

>The uniswap2 price feed algorithm is simply a moving average on past prices
And where does it get these prices?

>>19171172
>And if not the browser itself, then the extensions, cookies, ... that allow you to do certain things while browsing.
it's a tool that has no mind of its own.
>And where does it get these prices?
It's a on-chain dex and past prices are actually executed trades.

>>19171107
>The uniswap2 price feed algorithm is simply a moving average on past prices. The price can't be incorrect by definition, because it means it was true for a time - the period used for the average.

Correct so I can also flashcrash illiquid shit on uni to make money on liquid shit wich is using uniswap oracle?
BECAUSE ITS ONE CENTRALSIED SOURCE
I cant do that shit if data is pulled from uni+100 others
Thats why they say its dumb to use it as oracle v1 or v2 and both are oracles

Are you done coping?

The amount of cope from the linkers in this thread jfc. Laughable to see them talk against an obvious dev about all these definitions as though know anything other than the marketing terms from Chainlink and buzzwords thrown around by the community as they try to redefine what Chainlink is despite the obvious pivot since the dawn of mainnet, into a centralized entity. "bLoCkChAiN aGnOsTiC" lmao. What a pathetic loaded definition that is. And yes I've read all the arguments in that aspects' favour but it frankly doesn't cut it.

Anyway, the lack of decentralization atm isn't even a bad thing, because it's obviously done in realization that they won't be getting users for a long long time. That doesn't mean that DeFi projects will kowtow to them, nor does it mean that LINK won't pump. As manderson succinctly put it, they need to incentivize the holders and developers in order to get the ball rolling. But they're stuck in a bit of a conundrum, limited by the token that their reputation and finances are hinging on, which prevents them from revising their tokenomics. That isn't to say that it's a scam (far far from it) or that it won't ever be decentralized. They'll obviously go down that route someday, somehow.

t. LINK holder since Oct '17.

DN.NS!
Bought some more.
Chainlink is the key, cryptographic key to finance world.
Fuck you all for doubting that.

>>19171262
Flash crash has a negligible impact on the average, that's why it's called a flash crash. If it lasts, it's just a crash, at which point it's the real price.
Uniswap1 (current) IS vulnerable to a flash crash, because it has no capability to record averages.

>>19171288
seethe

Oh god I wish I could find someone to pegg me onchain if you sniff my drift

>>19171310
why would I seethe if LINK coin go up?

90% of this thread is arseholes pretending to be experts like creg writ satoshi cosplayer. imagine trusting the opinion of "experts" in clown world rn regardless of the industry.
The Chainlink team need to shift their focus towards explaining the complexities of the oracle problem to avoid plebs claiming to have solved the oracle problem over the weekend. Sergey and the rest of the two man team are championship weekend warriors deal with it faggots.

>>19171220
>it's a tool that has no mind of its own.
A third-party tool.

>It's a on-chain dex and past prices are actually executed trades
So it's a price oracle?

> oracle man bad!

LINKOIDS ON SUICIDE WATCH !!! :'DDD

>>19170490
>Uniswap2 is not an oracle because it's fully on-chain.
I'm done toying with you.
Protip: a price oracle is called that because it posts off-chain prices on chain.
You're basically saying "a Toyota Prius isn't a car because it drives on the road".

Pic is Compound literally calling Chainlink an "on-chain price" right alongside Uniswap.
But no doubt you'll argue that Compound is wrong too lmao.

>>19169494
lol yeah let's believe that dude who wants to mint 200 million more PNK 4 months after he just minted 200 million. very believable.

fucking PNKies.

>>19171451
>Protip: a price oracle is called that because it posts off-chain prices on chain.
Glad we can finally agree on something.
Uniswap doesn't post off-chain prices on-chain. First, it can't 'post' things, because that implies initiated action, and uniswap is just a contract. Second, all prices on uniswap are purely on-chain.
Therefore, according to your own definition, uniswap2 is not an oracle.

MATTY ARE YOU OKAY?
SO MATTY ARE YOU OKAY?
ARE YOU OKAY MATTY?

MATTY ARE YOU OKAY?
SO MATTY ARE YOU OKAY?
ARE YOU OKAY MATTY?

YOU'VE BEEN DABBED BY
YOU'VE BEEN FUCKED BY
A CRUDE ORACLE

>>19171484
Fiat prices are inherently off-chain.
If they are on the blockchain, that's because they were posted there.

Which is why Uniswap describes itself as an "oracle".

the order book from uniswap is used as an "onchain" price oracle

chainlink still beats the shit out of the market
1k eoy

Fudders on Keep sound like people in similar link threads a couple years ago. It's still really early but if you're not distracted by this fud (competition is good, however, I think LINK and KEEP will complement each other by expanding the ETH ecosystem) and like to speculate on emerging markets, $KEEP looks to me like the next $LINK

why is everyone so averse to using chainlink
isn't the pools feeding the data supposed to use their link as collateral in case they feed bad info?

>>19171499
lovely

>>19171552
>Fiat prices are inherently off-chain
Except the relevant price here is tbtc/eth

>>19171988
The same applies to cross-chain prices.

>>19172013
tbtc is an erc20 token

>>19172451
But the price of it is cross-chain.

>>19172462
no it's not, if tbtc works, tbtc starts to keep btc price via arbitrage, which means it can be used directly

>>19172475
>if tbtc works
tbtc uses oracles.
Because the price of btc is cross-chain.

>>19172497
"once the system grows large enough, it can be removed and use the tbtc/eth rate from uniswap2 directly"

>>19169400
>boosted
Its 'boasted'.
>shuted
Shut*.

Sergey hasn't solved the oracle problem though. If that was the case you'd all be multi-millionaires already and he would have won the Nobel prize for science.

>>19172511
Die hard linkie here. That's actually the only fud that gets me. Oracles are needed now, no one (except this guy it seems) can argue that. This is due to most of the data being off-chain. But I can see a world post smart contracts singularity where all the data will be on chain (of course not all, but most of it), this is when I'll probably start selling my linkies. But we are currently very, very, very far from this point

>>19172511
>uniswap2
Which uniswap calls an "oracle".

>>19172598
With all kinds of stablecoins, all data that can be natively on-chain is already natively on-chain.
Even if the Fed were to create a crypto-based USD, you still need oracles just the same for things like stocks, derivatives, bonds, insurance, and even cross-chain.

>>19172663
do you know how uniswap works?

why would sergey betray us bros

>>19173088
Good post, anon.

>>19173379
do you?

>>19173584
GREAT post, anon.

so that’s a no

>>19173088
>>19173584
>>19173872
Why do you keep switching IDs?

>>19169494
How to buy PNK please

>>19173904
im not sure why it keeps changing actually, but i’m asking genuinely.

>>19172511 is a retard for other reasons but if you understood how uniswap works you’d know why he’s right about uniswap v2

>>19174183
>you’d know why he’s right about uniswap v2
In what sense? That it's not an oracle?
So he's right and Uniswap is wrong?

>>19171359
that's what sergey has done with the same ppt over and over and still doing it, and yet some stupid fucks want to dumb it down even more. Link plebs are actually doing it to help other devs and still they want to find cheap alternative by stubborness how retarded is that...

>>19174236
whether you call it an oracle or not is just semantics.
uniswap doesn’t get its pricing data from offchain, that’s the key difference between it and chainlink.
when you swap ETH for LINK, the price of the next LINK goes up and vice versa. this price is kept inline with offchain prices by arbitrage. all of this swapping happens onchain through uniswap’s smart contract. for that reason the price is completely onchain and doesn’t require any external data.
uniswap as a price oracle has its own issues but the fact that it is completely onchain makes it much more de-centralized than chainlink in its current state

>>19172598
As IOT continues to proliferate, off chain data will increase exponentially. There will never be a day where most data is on chain

>>19174378
>whether you call it an oracle or not is just semantics.
Which is exactly why it's retarded to go against the word of Uniswap themselves.

>uniswap doesn’t get its pricing data from offchain, that’s the key difference between it and chainlink.
>the fact that it is completely onchain makes it much more de-centralized than chainlink
Uniswap works within ETH only, the entire reason for Chainlink's existence is to allow smart contracts to move beyond that: cross-chain and external data.

This is honestly pretty incredible.
And then people make fun of Sergey always starting his speeches with "for now smart contracts are limited to tokens".